The Conservative party are proposing that the speed limit on the motorway is increased from 70mph to 80mph. With congestion on the increase and an abundance of other laws targetting drivers many feel that this has become a significant politcal issue added to the close scrutiny and attention from the press. Would you agree with the suggested increase or would you rather leave it as it is? What are the major benefits?

I've attached a poll

Today in parliament a proposal will be made to raise the UK speed limit from 70 to 80mph on motorways. It's unlikely the proposal will be adopted, but it had me thinking. Last time I was back in the UK I was shocked at the almost total disregard for the speed limits. The few cars travelling at 70 mph on the motorway were the slowest vehicles on the road. Normal motorway speed seemed to be 80 - 90mph (this even included some trucks and coaches).

I was reliably informed (by someone who drives on motorways every day) that because of the sheer volume of traffic, the police turn a blind eye up to 90 mph. As he was telling me this, a BMW came past travelling at least 120mph with the driver speaking on his mobile phone! The Beemer then cut across all three lanes and disappeared up the slip road. An everyday occurrence, apparently.

Anyway, should this 80mph proposal become law, surely it will just mean that people will drive at 90 - 100mph with impunity?

2 threads merged.

I've voted to leave it at 70mph as most people don't know what the different limits are anyway so changing any of them will only confuse people.

Blanket speed restrictions on Mways are hard to judge, due to the ever changing situations on them. Sometimes, when driving on an empty motorway I feel that 100mph+ would be safe, but when conditions worsen or the traffic increases - or both - then the maximum safe speed can be as low as 30mph.

I'd like the maximum limit to be higher - say 90mph, but with more temporary speed restrictions in place as soon as they are needed. The only problem with this is that temporary speed restrictions are mostly ignored, so people would continue to travel at 90 all the time.

The traffic on motorways would flow much more smoothly and safely if people knew how to use them properly, but it seems beyond the reach of many people to keep left or maintain a safe stopping distance. If people knew how to drive better, we could safely increase the limit to 80 and beyond, no problem.

BTW, I drive on the motorways all the time, and - like most people on there - have never had any practical training for it. You pass your driving test driving around the local council estate and then get to go straight onto the M1 if you like. Seems a bit daft that. Maybe people should have to learn a bit more about Mway driving before being allowed on...

Originally posted by jackthedog
BTW, I drive on the motorways all the time, and - like most people on there - have never had any practical training for it. You pass your driving test driving around the local council estate and then get to go straight onto the M1 if you like. Seems a bit daft that. Maybe people should have to learn a bit more about Mway driving before being allowed on...

A good point.

I don't know if it's happened in the UK yet, but in some Australian states, they’ve introduced a logbook system whereby, after passing the test, you have to keep a log of everywhere you drive. It must include day/night, wet/dry and motorway/normal road driving.

After 24 hours of mixed driving conditions have been logged (and approved by the licensing centre) a 2 year probationary period begins. So you go from 'L' plates to 'P' plates for 2 years. There are certain restrictions during this 'P' plate period (reduced speed limit etc) and if you commit any infringement during the 2 years, you're back to square one - i.e. a new driving test and another 2 years on the 'P' plates.

We don't have anything like the traffic you do, of course, but what used to happen was that a 17 year-old passed his test (yes, it usually was a male) and the next day he was burning down the freeway at 100mph showing off to 6 of his mates in the back seat. You can guess the rest.

The new scheme has only just been introduced, so it's too early to tell if it's had any effect on road casualties. But anything that slows down the yobs has to be a good idea.

I think it should be increased to 80, but there should be a clamp down on anyone breaking that speed limit. That wouldn't be difficult, a speed camera every half mile or so would solve the problem.

Originally posted by Sidla
I think it should be increased to 80, but there should be a clamp down on anyone breaking that speed limit. That wouldn't be difficult, a speed camera every half mile or so would solve the problem.

Do you realise just how much money that would cost!!

On topic:

yes I agree that it should be raised to 80mph, but as someone said its relative anyway because travelling anywhere should be done to its conditions.

A good idea would be to have different speed limits time dependant, for instance between 6am and 12midnight 70MPH (80 on the "fast lane") and 12midnight ~ 6am 80MPH (90 to 100 on the "fast lane")

A good idea would be to have different speed limits time dependant, for instance between 6am and 12midnight 70MPH (80 on the "fast lane") and 12midnight ~ 6am 80MPH (90 to 100 on the "fast lane")

Why?

Supposing there'd be an accident at 5.55am? The 6am traffic wouldn't be going at 70mph... They'd be crawling along...

Speed kills. . . There's no need to go any faster than the current speed limit.

I think it should be left the way it is now.

Originally posted by caprice

Supposing there'd be an accident at 5.55am? The 6am traffic wouldn't be going at 70mph... They'd be crawling along...

Speed kills. . . There's no need to go any faster than the current speed limit.

As I said, it should be down to conditions.

as to your last point, 10mph aint gonna matter an h'apth on a motorway. Look at germany's Autobahns, no speed limits at all and much fewer accidents on their motorways

Hence why I agree with this new law as its written into another one which says that the limit be reduced to 20 around schools etc.

Originally posted by RPG
Do you realise just how much money that would cost!!

It probably pay for itself in one month.

as to your last point, 10mph aint gonna matter an h'apth

Oh yes it does! Haven't you seen the adverts? A driver does 35mph in a 30 zone, a kid runs out infront of the car, thr driver tries to stop, but doesn't and kills the kid... If the driver had gone at 30mph, s/he would have been able to stop in time and the kid would have still been alive.

I know there aint many kids playing chicken on the motorway, but supposing the car infront pulled up sharp and the stopping distance was increased by the extra 10mph which you don't seem to think matters... Then there'd be an accident...

You should know better as a learner driver mr RPG!

Way to quote out of context there :rolleyes: make note of "ON A MOTORWAY"

"aint many kids playing on a motorway" id hope there isnt any kids playing on a motorway, its against the law for a kick off.

More money should be ploughed into the 2 second rule (ie. if you are closer than 2 seconds behind someone, you shouldnt be)

If you also read my edit, I put that I agree with it even more because its tied into another law which will lower the speed limits to 20MPH around schools/hosptials etc. etc.

I agree with Sarah. Leave it that way it is. As mojo has already said, if the speed limit goes higher then so will the over-the-limit speeds at which most people drive.

Speed limit 70mph - Most people drive at 80+

New speed limit 80mph - People will be regularly driving at speeds of 100mph+

It only takes a second to have a smash.

Get it raised!
Whack it up!
Peddle to the metal!
whoah here we go!
The faster the better!
I'm not saying this would make the motorways safer but it could make em more fun!
OOOOOOH i've got my irresponsible head on!

Originally posted by RPG
Do you realise just how much money that would cost!!
As John says, it would very quickly pay for itself. And before t020 brings up the "well people would just slow down for the speed cameras, then speed up again" argument, the cameras could be hidden. I know hidden cameras aren't popular, but at the end of the day there's no excuse for speeding.

Hidden cameras are illegal at the moment ;)

The trouble with cameras is people would stop using the motorways, clogging up local roads and increasing pollution (keeping it in 3rd/4th gear) :(

Well they shoud change the law then. IMO, it's incredibly daft not to hide speed cameras, because people slow down for the cameras then speed back up again. If people didn't know where cameras were they'd be a lot more careful.

Way to quote out of context there make note of "ON A MOTORWAY"

Yes, readers of this thread are more than capable of re-reading your post, RPG.

A motorway is still a road, and going 10mph faster is going to increase the chances of having an accident. Unless there's some obvious point I'm missing which would cause driving faster to reduce the chance of accidents?

I'd prefer to see it like Germany - no limits on most motorways apart from the places where necessary, and strict speed limits in towns. Whenever I've driven in Germany there is no problem with this setup - most people still drive about 90ish, and just get out of the way for faster cars, instead of the stupid macho attitude of many British drivers - ie "you're not passing ME!!" - once saw a Ferrari zapping down the on-ramp and the whole fast line for 1/2 mile ahed promptly moved over.

I drive about 350 motorway miles p/week and most of the time will sit at between 90 and 95 indicated when possible - compared to the rest of the traffic, this seems a pretty normal speed.

The biggest problems on the motorways is tailgating - I've seen crash after crash because people drive too close together.

Some speed cameras are good - ie in accident blackspots or outside schools, but on the whole, this is what I think should be done with them:

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

Originally posted by caprice
Speed kills. . . There's no need to go any faster than the current speed limit.

Speed itself doesnt kill, it's the innapropriate use of speed.

And (way too much quoting of quotes for me to bother with it all), you say 10mph makes all the difference.

Yeah, the difference between 30 and 40 is huge, as the advert rightly points out, you're much more likely to kill someone if you are going that extra 10mph.

But at motorway speeds, as RPG points out, 10mph doesnt make a huge deal of difference. The difference between 80 and 90 is reletively small. If you hit something, your pretty much gonna be in a mess whatever particular speed you were doing.

Originally posted by Mike
I'd prefer to see it like Germany - no limits on most motorways apart from the places where necessary, and strict speed limits in towns. Whenever I've driven in Germany there is no problem with this setup - most people still drive about 90ish, and just get out of the way for faster cars, instead of the stupid macho attitude of many British drivers - ie "you're not passing ME!!" - once saw a Ferrari zapping down the on-ramp and the whole fast line for 1/2 mile ahed promptly moved over.

The biggest problems on the motorways is tailgating - I've seen crash after crash because people drive too close together.

I agree Mike. They do however have MINIMUM speed limits on the autobahns. The driving behaviour on the German autobahns is a real eye opener.

Nomme

Originally posted by Mike
I'd prefer to see it like Germany - no limits on most motorways apart from the places where necessary, and strict speed limits in towns. Whenever I've driven in Germany there is no problem with this setup - most people still drive about 90ish, and just get out of the way for faster cars, instead of the stupid macho attitude of many British drivers - ie "you're not passing ME!!" - once saw a Ferrari zapping down the on-ramp and the whole fast line for 1/2 mile ahed promptly moved over.

I drive about 350 motorway miles p/week and most of the time will sit at between 90 and 95 indicated when possible - compared to the rest of the traffic, this seems a pretty normal speed.

The biggest problems on the motorways is tailgating - I've seen crash after crash because people drive too close together.

Agree totally, saved me some typing :) Used to travel 1500+ miles a week on motorways usually 85-95 along with everyone else.

Cameras - the only people that compain about them are the people that speed anyway, and i am sorry but you are breaking the law and deserve to be fined and have points put on your licence. Driving above the speed limit is speeding no matter what the limit is.

Come on, isn't 70 miles per hour fast enough?. In my opinion, anyone who isn't driving over this limit just for the sheer hell of it should have set off a bit earlier.

Originally posted by fuzzy
i am sorry but you are breaking the law and deserve to be fined and have points put on your licence. Driving above the speed limit is speeding no matter what the limit is.
It's a stupid law so I have no qualms about breaking it.

Originally posted by Sam Miguel
Come on, isn't 70 miles per hour fast enough?.
No.

Originally posted by Sam Miguel
In my opinion, anyone who isn't driving over this limit just for the sheer hell of it should have set off a bit earlier.
I enjoy driving fast.

Originally posted by fuzzy
Cameras - the only people that compain about them are the people that speed anyway, and i am sorry but you are breaking the law and deserve to be fined and have points put on your licence. Driving above the speed limit is speeding no matter what the limit is.

Am I the exeption that proves the rule?

I dont speed, but I dont agree with most speed cameras, its a disgrace that the police forces are celebrating the fact they earnt more money this year than last, which surely means that speeding has gone up and its not slowing people down at all!

Its just another way to scam money of the people who complain the least :(

It's not a scam, it's law enforcement.

I'll be glad to see electronic speed restrictions based on the weather & traffic conditions being beamed to your car with built in GPS/GSM receiver... then I can concentrate on the road conditions and know that my car will beep a warning when I'm approaching the speed limit

The technology already exists to make this possible. It's already being used (in add-on black box form) to warn people where the speed cameras are lurking - why not make it available to everyone to enforce variable speed limit zones based on the conditions?

Well, you have to ask yourself why they are enforcing the speeding laws.

If they are trying to reduce road deaths due to speeding, which is what they say they are trying to do, then they are going about it in an extremely stupid way.

If they are just trying to raise money, then it's also a stupid way of doing it - the best way would be like in Holland, etc, where you don't get points, you just get fined. That way, much more money would be earned from repeat offenders.

How effective are speed cameras anyway? Most of them don't actually have cameras in anyway, and a gatso detector will tell you which ones do and which ones don't. Most people who habitually speed have a detector, so the value of cameras is instantly greatly reduced.

Originally posted by alert_bri
why not make it available to everyone to enforce variable speed limit zones based on the conditions?
It may happen eventually, but it's political suicide for any government that tries to introduce it, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

As soon as it happens, a whole market of devices that disable the speed limit enforcers will spring up, rather like the laser jammers that are available now.

Old thread I know, but I was travelling down from L**ds on the M1 yesterday and I had a few thoughts on the subject.

I did think that the limits should be increased on motorways, but now I dont.

The limit should stay exactly as it is until people can LEARN HOW TO DRIVE CORRECTLY!!!!!

Originally posted by jackthedog

The limit should stay exactly as it is until people can LEARN HOW TO DRIVE CORRECTLY!!!!!

I agree. can't count the number of times i've driven on motorways in torrential rain with spray and almost zero visibility and dozens of maniacs are speeding along without any lights at all, let alone rear fog lights. dont these idiots realise its in their own best interests to be seen?

If people were more aware of what goes on at those sorts of speeds, like visibility, reaction times and stopping distances, then it would be safe to raise the limit.
One of the main problems seems to be that people will not leave enough of a gap between cars, so will drive right up your a*se until they can pass, then pull right back into your lane about 6ft infront of you.

If you do leave a safe distance (which I do) then other cars see it as a gap and move into it.


Also, on the way up to L**ds, Saturday evening, on a deserted M1, I moved across to overtake the ONLY other car in sight, and as i moved out to the middle lane, she moved out infront of me! She wasnt passing anyone (NO other cars in sight!), there was no reason to move out when she did, AND she carried on at the same speed!

I had to pull across to the next lane to avoid hitting her!
She nearly caused a crash on a DESERTED motorway! I couldnt believe it. What happens to people's common sense on the road?

Sorry for the rant.

Originally posted by caprice


Speed kills. . . There's no need to go any faster than the current speed limit.

Speed doesn't kill. bad driving kills. inappropriate use of speed according to the conditions is bad driving. when the 70mph limit was introduced the majority of cars had drum brakes. most cars on the road have top notch disk brakes with abs. the advert where the little chap was knocked over showed bad driving. going too fast for the conditions (looks like a town high street) when he/she skidded there was no attempt to re-apply the brakes to regain traction. whats more dangerous? a healthy 25 year old doing 100mph on a well lit, dry, open motorway or a doddering old lady doing 25mph who cant see past her bumper, who doesn't even know her car legally requires a MOT test?

i think we should have a system, like germany. you can drive at whatever speed you feel comftable at!!

My dad regularly drives 75 miles from Grimsby to Sheffield and back and has hardly ever kept to the speed limit he travels at about 80/85 mph, but because he feels comftable driving at that speed and i know it, i feel safe

Originally posted by Mike
How effective are speed cameras anyway? Most of them don't actually have cameras in anyway, and a gatso detector will tell you which ones do and which ones don't. Most people who habitually speed have a detector, so the value of cameras is instantly greatly reduced.

Did you know that people with detectors have 24% fewer accidents? That suggests to me that they are more aware of whats going on... hey, they even spent £200 - £400 to be more aware!

Well certainly I'm no angel when it comes to speed, but in mitigation...

1. I'm well trained.
2. I've never had any points or bumps in 18 yrs.
3. I drive a capable well maintained vehicle.
4. And most importantly... I take conditions into account and drive within those limits. On occasions that can be well into 3 figures. :rolleyes:
5. I regularly touch wood. :P

Speed and Accidents - the link is clear and provable: The faster you and everyone else around you travels, the more accidents there will be given all other things being unchanged.

This extract is from an article by Marie Taylor of the Transport Research Laboratory; Ms Taylor leads the TRL's research on speed and accidents.


There is a vast amount of evidence demonstrating the strong link between vehicle speed and road accidents.

Studies of individual drivers have examined how drivers' speed choice reflects their likelihood of accident involvement (TRL421). Accident records of more than 10,000 drivers were related statistically to their observed speeding behaviour. These showed clearly that accident risk rises the faster a driver travels: at 25% above the average speed, a driver is about 6 times as likely to have an accident as a driver travelling at the average speed.

Road based studies looked at how speeds on a given road affect accidents ocurring there (TRL421 and 511). Several hundred thousandonservations on almost 300 roads of different types were related statistically to the numbers of accidents on those roads. These showed clearly that the faster the average speed of traffic on a given type of road, the more accidents there are...

Many "before and after" studies of measures that slow traffic and result in substantially have also been reported. All these studies together provide extremely robust evidence of how speed affects accidents. They are large-scale studies, of real traffic on real roads, involving rigorous statistical analyses.

The results are unambiguous. 10 people die and 100 people are seriously injured on our roads per day. Improvements in driver behaviour have the potential to cut these speeds dramatically, reducing drivers' speeds will play a vital part in this.

I don't quite get: Accident records of more than 10,000 drivers were related statistically to their observed speeding behaviour

So, who exactly was observing the speeding behaviour of these 10,000 drivers immediately before they crashed?

And I find it very hard to believe that on a motorway, going 110mph can make me 6 times more likely to have a crash than if I was going 85mph. I just don't believe that at all.

Is there a link to the full report?

Hmm, I'd agree if it was '6 times more likely to suffer a fatal injury at 110mph', but i'm not entirely convinced that your 6 times more likely to have an accident.

6 times? That seems like an awfully big jump to me.

I agree with a comment made by a guy further up the debate. Its not speed, its bad driving. Yes speed may play a factor but it all boils down to people driving badly. Not taking into consideration the surrounding area. I think the system should be like germany too, for motorways anyways. Any speed capable but with a lowest speed possible of 50Mph. We couldnt be having people chuddering along at 30 on a motorway. Its just not safe. I regulary drive at 90 on the motorway. I dont feel unsafe, I keep my distance and adapt the speed and distance in relation to the weather and road conditions. Driving at speeds of 90 isnt unsafe. It only becomes unsafe if people tail gate and when people pull out without checking their blind spot. :mad:

Originally posted by rickmiles85
I agree with a comment made by a guy further up the debate. Its not speed, its bad driving. Yes speed may play a factor but it all boils down to people driving badly. Not taking into consideration the surrounding area. I think the system should be like germany too, for motorways anyways. Any speed capable but with a lowest speed possible of 50Mph. We couldnt be having people chuddering along at 30 on a motorway. Its just not safe. I regulary drive at 90 on the motorway. I dont feel unsafe, I keep my distance and adapt the speed and distance in relation to the weather and road conditions. Driving at speeds of 90 isnt unsafe. It only becomes unsafe if people tail gate and when people pull out without checking their blind spot. :mad:

all very good! and im with you all the way

for once there is nothing i can dissagree with there!!

well put

Originally posted by caprice
Oh yes it does! Haven't you seen the adverts? A driver does 35mph in a 30 zone, a kid runs out infront of the car, thr driver tries to stop, but doesn't and kills the kid... If the driver had gone at 30mph, s/he would have been able to stop in time and the kid would have still been alive.

I know there aint many kids playing chicken on the motorway, but supposing the car infront pulled up sharp and the stopping distance was increased by the extra 10mph which you don't seem to think matters... Then there'd be an accident...

You should know better as a learner driver mr RPG!

That bloke would probably have stopped sooner had his rear brakes been working. Anyone else noticed that?

Good point though caprice.

:thumbsup: Well its just my personal opinion.

i tried that advert with my dad it took him 1/2 the length of the car to stop from 30mph and 3/4 of the car at 40mhp.

And if a kid is that close to a car when it walks out its its own fault!! you would here it and probably see it unless you were blind dumb and thick and deaf!
And if thats the case you shouldnt be trying to cross the road or even playiing near the road!!

Did your dad brake due to an unexpected hazard, or did he brake when HE decided to?

It does make a difference to the distance if you add the THINKING time as well.

Know what I mean?

Originally posted by markham
Did your dad brake due to an unexpected hazard, or did he brake when HE decided to?

It does make a difference to the distance if you add the THINKING time as well.

Know what I mean?

Good point, often overlooked...

Originally posted by markham
That bloke would probably have stopped sooner had his rear brakes been working. Anyone else noticed that?

Good point though caprice.

Anybody noticed the blokes rear brake problem yet?

Yes reaction time is a major factor on motorway

Originally posted by Fletch


And if a kid is that close to a car when it walks out its its own fault!! you would here it and probably see it unless you were blind dumb and thick and deaf!
And if thats the case you shouldnt be trying to cross the road or even playiing near the road!!

Try explaining that little gem to the parents of the little kid who wandered out of Busk Meadows nursery onto Shirecliffe Road some time back.

I don't think that kid was blind, dumb, thick or deaf. Just nearly DEAD.

I'm sure that if you ever get hit by a speeding driver you'll say "Its ok, my fault, I must be dumb and thick".

God help us all if you ever get a driving licence.

Originally posted by Lickszz
The Conservative party are proposing that the speed limit on the motorway is increased from 70mph to 80mph. With congestion on the increase and an abundance of other laws targetting drivers many feel that this has become a significant politcal issue added to the close scrutiny and attention from the press. Would you agree with the suggested increase or would you rather leave it as it is? What are the major benefits?

I've attached a poll

No I do not agree with the Motorway speed limit being increased, seventy miles per hour is enough for any sensible sane person who wants to get home in one piece.

It is only speed crazed imbeciles with a death wish, who want to drive at excessive speeds, to satisfy their idiotic obsession to be the first at the head of the queue, I would ban them for life because other people on the road (drivers and pedestrians) are put at risk.

Originally posted by halevan
No I do not agree with the Motorway speed limit being increased, seventy miles per hour is enough for any sensible sane person who wants to get home in one piece.
Wow, it's amazing I've lived this long then :rolleyes:

Originally posted by halevan
I would ban them for life
Hmmm, a lifetime ban for going 75mph. How typically reasonable of you.

Originally posted by halevan
because other people on the road (drivers and pedestrians) are put at risk.
Not sure when you were last on a motorway, but you don't tend to get many pedestrians on them.

Time to resurrect a seven-year-old thread, because the Government has announced a consultation on whether to raise the limit to 80mph: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15116064


So we can all raise the arguments over again!

Personally I'm all in favour of raising the limit on motorways, and then enforcing it properly; average-speed cameras or hidden cameras so that people can't just slow down for the camera and carry on breaking the law everywhere else.

Is 80 high enough? Would 90 be better?