The people who inhabited the house we now own carried out some rather unorthodox and very dangerous electrical practices before they left. Ot at least the grandmother did, we were told. She was so obviously cluuuuuuue-less.

We regularly get electric shocks from taking the washing out of the washing machine, turning on the tap in the garden etc, and my husband - who is an electrician - sys that what they have done defies verything he has ever learnt and that it is amazing the house hasn't blown up. The worrying thing is that we have two small children.

The most recent thing DH discovered was under a light switch cover, the neutral wire twisted around the earth.

What position are we in with regards to legal issues? Does anyone know if we have a leg to stand on, or should this all have been brought up in the searches prior to purchase. Or can we sue the pants off them!

Did you not get a survey done before you bought the house?
Surely that should have been flagged up by your surveyor?

Didn't you have a survey carried out on the property before you bought it?

Of course we had a survey done, I did mention that in my opening post...

How though, I would like to know, if all things are functioning properly, could they have spotted dodgy wiring, and if they should have looked at all that, do we have grounds to questions the search company?

Thanks for asking.

Originally posted by lizzmobile

We regularly get electric shocks from taking the washing out of the washing machine, turning on the tap in the garden etc, and my husband - who is an electrician - sys that what they have done defies verything he has ever learnt and that it is amazing the house hasn't blown up.
Sounds like there's a fault in the earth connection. I'm surprised that a qualified electrician would scare you into thinking that the house would blow up because of that.

As you've got kids, get it sorted urgently and THEN look at legal action.


PS
The surveyor will only look at the visible parts of the wiring system - eg. if the sockets or switches are cracked. They won't do any test unless you ask (and pay) them to.

As my niece was moving into her newly purchased house she could smell gas. Gas Board came and sealed it off - they couldn't move in. The guy who had 'refurbished' it had done his own gas work and it was a disgrace. Apparently if they had lit a ciggy it would have gone up. They took this up with the building society who had sent their surveyor round but they fobbed them off saying their surveyor only looked at the structure, not the services like gas, electric, etc. There definitely needs to be some law put in place which requires that the seller must ensure things like this have been tested and without such tests, the property cannot be sold.

Most surveys don't cover that sort of electrical inspection.

That sounds VERY dangerous - if hubbie's an electrician he knows what his next job is! :)

Sounds like they've probably done the neutral / earth thing all over the place.

My father once did this by accident (before my mother decided that all wiring would be done by you're truly) and my mum started getting a tingle when she was taking stuff out of teh washer.

She was lucky that it was just a tingle...

If the wiring was carried out on the consumer side of the circuit, then I have a feeling that until recently you didn't have to be qualified to complete it. If that's the case, and teh survey was a standard 'Mortgage' one, then I generally think you're on a hiding to nothing.

Joe

Originally posted by Trishtee
They took this up with the building society who had sent their surveyor round but they fobbed them off saying their surveyor only looked at the structure, not the services like gas, electric, etc.

Not fobbing them off - a Building Society survey will only look at whether the house is structurally sound - in other words is it good security for the loan?

To get a useful survey done, you have to pay extra :)

DH is indeed a qualified electrician and he said what he said as we still don't know the extent to which the botched work has been carried out. Worse could be afoot. Also, probably a little tongue in cheek too.

There could be much worse and he is gradually working his way through it all. Each discovery is worse than the last.

Thank you, yes the order of things will be respected, priorities being priorities and all that.

Any more feedback welcome.

The are of course different levels of survey - from the basic 'Yes, the house has walls, which will probably stay up for a few years' up to more comprehensive ones - Im not sure unless you got the best possible one the wiring would probably not be covered, even then it may not even be covered depending on the surveyor.

It does sound like a naff Earth and the neutral joined to Earth in numerous places.

Many, many, many moons ago people used to do this to allow two pin plugs to be used. Hasn't been a legit way of doing things for about 50 years...

I think in most modern installations there's often an Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker (ELCB) in place on the ring circuits that trip if this tomfoolery is attempted.

Joe

Originally posted by lizzmobile
The people who inhabited the house we now own carried out some rather unorthodox and very dangerous electrical practices before they left. Ot at least the grandmother did, we were told. She was so obviously cluuuuuuue-less.

We regularly get electric shocks from taking the washing out of the washing machine, turning on the tap in the garden etc, and my husband - who is an electrician - sys that what they have done defies verything he has ever learnt and that it is amazing the house hasn't blown up. The worrying thing is that we have two small children.

The most recent thing DH discovered was under a light switch cover, the neutral wire twisted around the earth.

What position are we in with regards to legal issues? Does anyone know if we have a leg to stand on, or should this all have been brought up in the searches prior to purchase. Or can we sue the pants off them!


would thi be them?


http://i19.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/5e/a0/5f_2.JPG

Oi Kirky, not quite Adams but not far off! The grandmother's hair is just like morticia's though, we see them regularly. They are not the talking type tho' so no discussions would be forthcoming. They are the type that only socialise with their own family. Very odd.

And another thing, they had this massive round bath but into the house then built the rest of the house around it so that we now cannot remove it to sell it and use the space (very un-economial and un-ecological to use). So we have to chop it up, or get a window removed. I don't think so.

May I just point out, having been a legal conveyancing secretary for 15 years, a search is not the same as a survey. The searches done by your solicitor or conveyancer when you bought the house will not cover anything structural, but are searches to show that everything regarding the sale of the property is legal, and that the land on which your property is built is safe, e.g. doesn't have any mine shafts running under it.

A survey is of the structure of the property. It all depends on whether you had the obligatory mortgage provider's survey done, or whether you had a full structural survey carried out. The latter should have covered a wiring check.

I think you will have to look into what type of survey was carried out before you bought the property. You may have a claim against the surveyor, but be warned that this can be an expensive, long drawn-out claim, which you could lose.

Originally posted by lizzmobile
Of course we had a survey done, I did mention that in my opening post...


No you didn't, you mentioned 'searches' - which are different to a full building survey, or electrical testing at the very least.

Originally posted by lizzmobile
The people who inhabited the house we now own carried out some rather unorthodox and very dangerous electrical practices before they left. Ot at least the grandmother did, we were told. She was so obviously cluuuuuuue-less.

We regularly get electric shocks from taking the washing out of the washing machine, turning on the tap in the garden etc, and my husband - who is an electrician - sys that what they have done defies verything he has ever learnt and that it is amazing the house hasn't blown up. The worrying thing is that we have two small children.

The most recent thing DH discovered was under a light switch cover, the neutral wire twisted around the earth.

What position are we in with regards to legal issues? Does anyone know if we have a leg to stand on, or should this all have been brought up in the searches prior to purchase. Or can we sue the pants off them!

If you had a survey done, the surveyor (in a Homebuyers Report) may have made reference to recent rewiring, or indeed highlight the electrical installation is ageing, (ususally from seeing the wiring in the roofspace during inspection).

However, based on whats seen there - generally the Surveyor (who usually are not electrical specialists) will recommend you get a specialist to check the services (services testing).

I think however that if you specified a full building survey, you would get a more in depth test of these services, unless it is noted that further inspections are recommended. As far as taking the surveyor to court, you could well do that if negligence can be proved, but its no easy task.

Originally posted by Ann_x
You may have a claim against the surveyor, but be warned that this can be an expensive, long drawn-out claim, which you could lose.

Agreed. The RICS have some of the best lawyers on their books, and more often then not will end up costing you alot of money challenging them unless your case is waterproof.

This all sounds like great advice. Thank you all.

I didn't know that search and survey were different so thanks for that.

I was interested to know if I would take the vendors to court for dodgy practices, there is no way I would take on a surveyor.

Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to sue the vendors....you bought the property "as seen", and have relied on the survey and searches that were carried out. The vendors do not have to guarantee that everything is safe.

Most of the electrical work would probably have been carried out before the new laws were put in place, which states that any electrical work that is done, including changing light fittings, and moving sockets, has to be inspected, and certificated.

May I suggest that you have a word with your solicitor, who acted for you when you bought the property ~ s/he should have a copy of most of the paperwork on file, and may be able to tell you what rights you have.

I'm afraid that the phrase 'caveat emptor' or buyer beware, comes in to play with regard to whether you can sue the previous occupants. With the way that the system works in England, it is the buyer's responsibility to find and challenge any problems, via search, survey, or checking it all out personally, and other than that houses are effectively sold as seen, unless you have proof (written) that thet deliberately lied about something material to your case.

Whilst I understand that this situation is a steaming pile of poo, I'm not sure that you have any recourse at all against the vendors, and so may be better just chalking this one down to experiece (and learn to request a wiring check on the next survey you need), and spending your energies getting this dangerous situation sorted out.

Good luck.

Is it something that you can claim on insurance?

To be honest it's not going to take your Hubby all that long to whip off all the electrical covers and tidy everything up. That would be much much less bother, and far cheaper than trying to go through any legal action.

Where I work we have recently had PAT tests and installation test. Two guys did the whole place in about 5 hours, which would mean they could have done a house in about 1 or 2.

And besides, if I were he, I would want to do the checks to my own satisfaction if my own family were at risk anyhow.

Originally posted by bonny
Is it something that you can claim on insurance?

No.

Originally posted by Trishtee
As my niece was moving into her newly purchased house she could smell gas. Gas Board came and sealed it off - they couldn't move in. The guy who had 'refurbished' it had done his own gas work and it was a disgrace. Apparently if they had lit a ciggy it would have gone up. They took this up with the building society who had sent their surveyor round but they fobbed them off saying their surveyor only looked at the structure, not the services like gas, electric, etc. There definitely needs to be some law put in place which requires that the seller must ensure things like this have been tested and without such tests, the property cannot be sold.

We had a similar incident when we moved into our house. We moved in on xmas eve of all days, and over new year there was a really strong smell of gas. We called Transco and the engineer told us that our pipework was illegal and we could be reported for 'pilfering' gas and in the meantime he would have to cut our gas off!
At this point I started to cry (cause it was freezing!) and pointed out the boxes everywhere stating that we had only just moved in, he then said he could do a quick fix so we could keep the gas on.
Nightmare!

Some of the wiring I've had to rip out when doing work would make you weep - or jump with shock.

When I did my brother's house after he bought it from a dear little old lady I found that the lights on the stairs were wired into both the upstairs circuit and the downstairs circuit!

In my house there was a twin 13A socket in the kitchen fed by a 5A cable on a spur from the fuseboard. I stuck a label over it saying "5A MAX!" to remind myself until I removed it.

And this http://mdfs.net/Docs/Electrical/Supply/CammSt/OldNew1.jpg (the two at the bottom) is the old fusing arrangement I removed!

At another house I think the previous occupier got a job lot of single-core cable. I was following singles up and down all over the place trying to work out where things went. He'd even wired up the electric shower in Flat 1 to Flat 2's supply!

--
JGH

Hey Medusa, that latin thing was never more true! Everyone is right, and it would take lots of money and energy to obtain a result which may not even land in our favour. I guess it's just a cse of YET another thing the crazy amateurs have done that is now causing us hassle, and there are so many. If I mentioned everything, you'd all have logged off by now.

Hubby is busy at work putting things right as we speak. Thanks to you all for you input. If you don't hear from me again, you'll know that it was worse than stated.... :hihi:

Lizzmobile

Originally posted by jgharston
Some of the wiring I've had to rip out when doing work would make you weep - or jump with shock

And this http://mdfs.net/Docs/Electrical/Supply/CammSt/OldNew1.jpg (the two at the bottom) is the old fusing arrangement I removed!



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JGH

Thats just how the council "electrcians":confused: left ours ,before we moved in.:help: