Any other Sheffield Ex-Pats living in the USA. I live in San Francisco Bay.



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oooh, SF bay, nice, got any pics to share?

No
still in Sheffield, drizzling and 15 degrees here

Err... not sure why this was in the Noticeboard forum so I moved it here :)

A friend of mine who I used to go to school with moved to the US, funnily enough, also moved to San Francisco.
He came from Rotherham originally though.

Originally posted by "owlsfan"

Any other Sheffield Ex-Pats living in the USA. I live in San Francisco Bay.



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Don't you just love that bay?

Het Owlsfan, I am thinking of taking a trip to the west coast next year (Not Blackpool - America) Where are the best places?

I want to do Las Vegas for a few days, what San Diego like?

Any views welcome, this is like a reverse post!! Instead of whats Sheffield like, whats America like.

Hi owlsfan,
I moved out here in November.. here is Wisconsin, on the shore of Lake Michigan... or 'on the coast' as I call it! Been a chilly winter, but now looking forward to a long hot summer. I was distraught to hear that no sooner had I left Sheffield than Tony Capstick got the push :cry:

Just found these forums 'cos I'm having a sleepless night.... good to see the old Sheffield humour again.

graham_mca

I moved to Big Rapids Michigan in 1994. Grew up in the Meersbrook area. How's the bay? Traci Mondrella

It warms my heart to know that I am not alone in my sheffy accent and rugged humor - there are lots of us out here! Traci from Big Rapids.

Originally posted by "owlsfan"

Any other Sheffield Ex-Pats living in the USA. I live in San Francisco Bay.
What the heck is an EX-Pat?

Ex Patriot

Someone who has left there homeland.

Any others definitions?

Originally posted by "mikey"

Ex Patriot

Someone who has left there homeland.

Any others definitions?
So does moving to another countryt make them an EX Patriot?
I'd still be a patriot of 'GREAT BRITAIN' if I moved to the states.

Originally posted by mikey
Het Owlsfan, I am thinking of taking a trip to the west coast next year (Not Blackpool - America) Where are the best places?

I want to do Las Vegas for a few days, what San Diego like?

Any views welcome, this is like a reverse post!! Instead of whats Sheffield like, whats America like.

I like San Diego very much lots of bars, restaurants etc. Also in Southern California the LA area is worth a day or two. Though it's not all it's cracked up to be...

San Francisco is one of the nicest cities in the US and well worth a trip. Lot's to do. If you do the trip to Vegas fly from Oakland (OAK) or LAX via SouthWest Airlines (Like easyjet very cheap!)

Don't use a UK travel agent forinternal flights in the us use the internet...

Hi there,

Born and raised in Beauchief, Sheffield, moved to the US about two and a half years ago. Lived in Wyoming for a while, but I am currently settled in Oklahoma.

I stumbled on this place while searching google for something totally unrelated, it was quite a suprise, but a pleasant one.

Hi Y'all,

I have been living in Gulf Breeze, North Florida for the last 9 years. I work in a hotel on Pensacola Beach, which means I see the beach and the sea all day, every day. The weather is 95 degrees right now during the day and warm and humid at night. I am very spoilt and take it for granted a lot. However, I miss home very much and I get home sick a lot. Then I came across this web site last week and I can't get enough of it. I may live in Florida, but I am still a true Brit and my home will always be in Sheffield.
See you all in October.
Is it still raining?

I left Sheffield 40 years ago, go back often but miss the old days, buses are empty now, why? Use to be standing room only, we use to dash upstairs to get the front seats, miss the old Walshes, my mom worked as a waitress there in the 50s, we couldn't afford to shop there but use to go in just to use the lav's, and see mom tired out waiting on all the rich people having lunch, good times and bad.

Hi the bus service's were better run back then,nearly always on time & you did not have to wait ages for the bus to arrive.I have lived in Barnsley for 25 years since leaving Heeley & the bus service is atrotious,never on time ,sometimes they don't turn up.Like all things people were more caring back then, than they are now its a case of i'm alright Jack society.I was brought up to help as much as I can & the same for my kidsBut you don't see much of that nowadays.

YES TOSH, BETTER SERVICE BACK THEN, LAST TIME I WAS HOME I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE BUSES ALL LINED UP COULD KEEP THE ENGINES RUNNING, ISN'T GAS EXPENSIVE IN ENGLAND ?
IT IS IN THE US, GOING UP TO $50 A BARREL NOW, BETTER GET BUSH BACK IN ASAP.

Yes Poppin like most things in the UK now,we get ripped off & say nothing.You live in the US, well you can understand how low prices are there compared to us.Granted the US is bigger but surely our prices even compared to most of europe are higher,always have been always will be,see my point is we don't complain enough to the right people to get things changed.We are well known for putting up with bad services & product prices.Anyway welcome back.

YES TOSH
OUR PRICES SEEM LOWER TO YOU, BUT NOT TO US, ALSO I'V ALWAYS KNOWN ENGISH PEOPLE TO VOICE THEIR OPINIONS MUCH MORE, MORE PROTESTS ECT, THEY GOT RID OF THAT THATCHER TAX DIDN'T THEY ?

Well I suppose so,but you have to admit the Brits are not good at arguing .I am, want to argue LOL

Originally posted by poppins
IT IS IN THE US, GOING UP TO $50 A BARREL NOW, BETTER GET BUSH BACK IN ASAP.


Rubbish, its through him with the Iraq conflict thats pushed oil prices through the roof, anyways Americans have had low oil / gas prices for years about time they paid what everyone else has to and pay for the damage they're doing to the environment.

That man is an utter walking disaster, sooner he is out of power the sooner the world will be a safer place.

maga_monty

just trust me.

Poppins I might well trust you, being an ex sheffielder, but I certainly wouldnt trust George W Bush, send him back to his Texas ranch.

Mega Monty
Thanks for the trusting compliment, nice of you.

Mega monty, your parents were happy enough to see Americans over there fighting and dying along with us during WW2. Do you honestly think Hitler would have been beaten without them? If so you're delusional. If I choose to drive my three litre car across the United States at two bucks a gallon, that's my business and my country's business. USA remains the world's best hope for the future of Western ideals whether you like it or not. I for one do not like George Bush, but I'm one who has the ability to change that with my vote, so sorry if you don't and sorry you hate us so much, cos I don't hate you.

Originally posted by buck
Mega monty, your parents were happy enough to see Americans over there fighting and dying along with us during WW2. Do you honestly think Hitler would have been beaten without them?

My dad was in Italy at Monte Casino and was more frightened of the Yanks than he was of the Germans.

They certainly didn't call it "friendly" fire then.

Poppins started this thread about how much Sheffield has changed, bus services etc ,how come this thread has been hijacked,talking about Bush,I didn't know he came from Sheffield.Let's get back to what the thread was originally put in for.I would like to go back to Heeley & see the changes,especially the old Heeley Church,The Shaky pub,Red Lion on Heeley bottom & is the Sheaf pub still standing.

The Sheaf is now one of the best pubs in Sheffield,

I'm a Sheffielder too, and would have been happy enough just to stick to the subject, but I'm tired of the anti Americanism that's become too prevalent lately. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. You're jealous of our domestic prices, yet come over in droves to avail yourselves of them, and while you're here criticize our life styles, what arrogance! If you don't like us go to Spain our somewhere you can enjoy your bingo games and Red Barrel. We're quite happy to be left alone.

Originally posted by buck
I'm a Sheffielder too, and would have been happy enough just to stick to the subject, but I'm tired of the anti Americanism that's become too prevalent lately. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. You're jealous of our domestic prices, yet come over in droves to avail yourselves of them, and while you're here criticize our life styles, what arrogance! If you don't like us go to Spain our somewhere you can enjoy your bingo games and Red Barrel. We're quite happy to be left alone. Excuse me mate but I have never said a bad word about the USA.If your a sheffielder why are are you saying,your jealous of our prices & such,you are English are you not.I was the first to reply to Poppins & she was asking about sheffield in general from years ago to now.I have lived in Barnsley for 25 but I if anyone slagged off my birth place they would get an earful.You are Yorkshire born & bred be proud.

Originally posted by buck
I for one do not like George Bush, but I'm one who has the ability to change that with my vote, so sorry if you don't and sorry you hate us so much, cos I don't hate you.

Im sorry but I've not once said that I hate "Americans" infact I could'nt say that, because I have American family and friends, it was due to WW2 that we have family over there, family members marrying American service men. American people have always made me feel very welcome everytime I have visited.

However I dont like George Bush and think he's done the real everyday American people diservice, and its these people that I feel really sorry for, they deserve better. I hope that they can use their vote to change things for the better.

Originally posted by buck
I'm tired of the anti Americanism that's become too prevalent lately. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Hardly suprising is it ? Bush diving into Iraq, guns blazing away, tarnishing the reputation of American people.

I am indeed proud to be a Sheffielder, and a Yorkshireman,but I have lived in this country for 38 years.I'm a US citizen, my kids and my grandkids are American, I have never known a society more willing to help those in need than Americans, relying on volunteering more than government handouts. Anybody who knows Bush will know there are no handouts coming unless you're a big business executive so we pick up the slack out of our own pockets. Like many of you I want to see the man gone, so keep your fingers cross for November 2. I hope the FBI isn't monitoring this.

Hi Poppins,
I bought my goingaway wedding suit at Walshs. Lasted for yrs.

My friends mother worked there, in the offices I think. Mrs Seabourne, smoked like a trooper.
Can you remember Ann Lenards dress shop on fargate and Stewart and Stewarts on Pinstone St and Robrt Brothers next to Coles on coles corner which were dept stores.
Robert Bros had a floor man a bit like Mr Peacock in "Are you being served" in a black suit who directed custormers to the counters. Small bossy man more like Captain Mainwaring. Ruled wiith a rod of iron. Good shop though

Hazel

Originally posted by buck
I hope the FBI isn't monitoring this.

Was wondering that myself, lol.

Anyways goodluck for Nov 2nd, wish I could vote myself.

Btw, do you have to be a sworn in American citizen before you can vote ? and how long before you qualify to become a citizen ?

Hi Monty, You have to be a US citizen to vote, and it normally takes 5 years from qualifying for a "green card ", one exception is for the new spouse of an American citizen who can make it in three years, providing they live together for that long. This helps to prevent covenience marriages for money. The hard part is to get permanent resident status ( green card ) You have to prove several things like you're not taking a job away from an American, and that you're financially secure and healthy. The immigration service allocates quotas to certain geographical regions, hoping to keep the ethnic mix in balance. For instance, it's probably pretty difficult for muslims right now, and there's some worry about how much spanish is being spoken. The UK is part of the European quota, which has plenty of berths right now. Europeans are staying home and who can blame them.

Talking of floor walkers. When I left the navy in the sixties, my wife and I were on Fargate looking for a sofa and chair for our new home. There was an upscale furniture store close to Cole's whose name I forget. As we walked in the floor walker asked us what we want, when we told him his nose went higher than his you know what, and we were informed we couldn't afford their stuff. ( I had several thousand pounds at the time.) As we walked out the shop manager asked us why we were leaving, so we told him and left. I hope that jerk got fired there and then! If you happen to be that jerk, here's a raspberry for you, unless you're dead from the neck down as well as up.

Hi Buck
Sorry to get you going, it was me that changed the subject to Bush, I'm a Sheffielder too, also living in Conn, i live in Norwalk and work in Wilton.

I'll stick to the subject from now on, don't want to upset my old country folk, but just for the record I am a BIG BUSH supporter.


Poppins

Big Bush???


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....................

Hi Poppins, as I've said I'm not a Bush supporter, but in our democratic society, we have a right to disagree, and I would defend that right with my life, so no more need be said on that one, we're Sheffielders and should stick to that fact. That being said, I live in Windsor Locks, just a mile or so from Bradley Airport. I would love to be able to board a plane there to England or Ireland, instead of the drag to either Boston or NYC. We are bound for Ireland next Thursday, which is my wife's homeland, time doesn' t allow for us to go to Sheffield because my wife loves the city, and more especially Bakewell, cos she likes the tarts.

Hi Hazel
Do i ever remember Ann Lenards ! we bought all our clothes from there, the window was small, but everything in it was just what we were looking for, couldn't afford Walshes but i use to love to walk around and look at the women shopping there, i was always jelous of them, the even smelt rich in their tweeds.

My Aunt worked in a fur shop accross the st from Walshes, she worked downstairs sewing and repairing furs, when he boss needed her upstairs he would stomp on the floor and she'd come running, her name was Gladys Coyle, she worked there for years.

I think it's so nice to hear the shop attendents to call each other MISS, no first names, very proper !

Poppins

Hi Buck
Have a good flight to Ireland, yes would be nice to fly out of Bradley, i'm close to NYC so it's not a problem for flights, i fly into Manchester when i go home, it's a nic e airport.

I'v never been to Ireland. How do you manage driving ? i use to have no problem driving on the other side when i was younger, but no more, they drive too fast for me over there.

Have a good time.

Poppins

Originally posted by buck
... my wife loves the city, and more especially Bakewell, cos she likes the tarts.

Heh...my wife's a septic too and she insists we go to Bakewell when we're back over there for Christmas. We were there in July...I was disappointed 'cos the chippy wasn't open and I remember it being very good. :(

Also - there seemed to be less trout in the river than I remember.

By the way - I believe that in Bakewell, they're referred to as 'puddings', not tarts....might be wrong *shrug*

.

By the way - I believe that in Bakewell, they're referred to as 'puddings', not tarts....might be wrong *shrug* [/B][/QUOTE]

Your right headup, and a lot of them are baked in Chesterfield not in Bakewell. We have a friend coming over to se us from Colorado later this month and the one thing she always looks forward to is mushy peas, she even takes some died peas back with her so the others in Denver can share the experience......next on the list is to convert her to Hendersons..lol.

Buck, good luck with the election, and just hope that Florida don't get to hold the last count:heyhey:

It's interesting to see how many ex pats get on the forum, especially us" gringos". I don't have to travel too far because there is a Sheffield in Massachusetts about 50 miles from us. No Fargate, no Wicker Arches, not even a pub! In fact if you blink your eyes while driving through, you'll miss it. I wonder how these New England places got their names. Tha knows, t'river looks just like t'river Don with all that watter, Happen we should call it Sheffield. The much larger city of Fall River in MA was settled almost exclusively by Sheffield iron workers helping to start a shipbuilding industry.

Moved to connecticut about 40 years ago, i have all my family back in sheff so i get to go home quite a lot, i still have my sheff accent so people say, but when i go home my family says i'v lost it completely, hope they mean my accent ?

Im thinking of visiting florida next year and dont know where too stay maybe i could get a discount on your place

I left Sheffield in '99. And by way of Manchester, London and Woking, ended up in Los Angeles. I now live just north of San Diego. I prefer SD to LA just because it's cleaner, more laid-back and less crowded than LA. LA is not an attractive place - sure, there are one or two gems...but as a city it's nothing like New York (an amazing place). San Francisco is nice too.

The guy who cut my hair when I lived in LA was from Sheffield too. In fact, he knew a former girlfriend of mine from the time he worked at Creator on West Street. Small world innit?

Hey Owlsfan is it not a little wet living in the bay ? - sorry couldn't resist.

I take it the beers are on you when I'm down there for the Audio Engineering Society show at the end of this month then ? Funnily enough one of the unnoficial events of the show is always a meeting of several of us from the industry who are mostly ex-pats scattered around the world.

We're now in Canada having relocated there after 3.5yrs in Nashville, TN and 2yrs in Switzerland prior to that so hardened ex-pats these days. Did a spell in Oxford before leaving the UK so it's 25 odd years since I left Sheffield.

--sean

Hey Bax it's a shame I hadn't found this place earlier and it's indeed a small world these days.

My wife has an ex-pat old family friend who lives in Big Rapids and we've visited several times in the last few years, the most recent being this last Christmas when we drove up from Nashville for a few days.

You may even know him as he's a minor local celeb because of his activities as a saboteur during the war and also his ability to befriend the ducks and geese at the animal park where he was a ranger until recently. Age is starting to take it's toll and he's on dialysis every few days now so we will probably be visiting as often as possible in the near future.

I'll drop you a line next time we're down there ( we're in Manitoba these days ) in case you fancy a spot of reminiscing - my wife and I are both ex-Sheffielders.

--sean

yes, I left sheffield years ago. I lived in London for 8 years, Woking for 11 year and moved to Idaho in 2004!

Threads merged.

Owlsfan, I left Shefiield in 1990 and moved to Boca Raton, Florida (now in Lake Worth). I never left the owls, I work and go to school and Florida Atlantic University who's mascot in the burrowing owl (Blue and white too). Michelle:clap:

Originally posted by buck
Talking of floor walkers. When I left the navy in the sixties, my wife and I were on Fargate looking for a sofa and chair for our new home. There was an upscale furniture store close to Cole's whose name I forget. As we walked in the floor walker asked us what we want, when we told him his nose went higher than his you know what, and we were informed we couldn't afford their stuff. ( I had several thousand pounds at the time.) As we walked out the shop manager asked us why we were leaving, so we told him and left. I hope that jerk got fired there and then! If you happen to be that jerk, here's a raspberry for you, unless you're dead from the neck down as well as up.

Good post Buck....I can see you are Americanised (note no use of a Z) with the use of jerk and fired. I’ve enjoyed reading the posts from the Sheffield ex-pats....and long may you live. I really do hope you tell your children and your grand children how proud they should be having a heritage with the Steel City.

I wonder if you lot still have your Sheffield/Yorkshire accent? Hang your head in shame if you have lost it:help:

Looking forwardto you replies.

I'm in BC Canada been here about 6 to 8 months and a buddy of mine (he was born here) his mom and dad came from Doncaster. He says thatwhen his dad and I get talkin and discussin stuff he has a job to understand either of us. Says all his dads accent comes back when he gets talkin with me but he can understand either of us just not when we are talkin to each other.:D

I lost mine accent, it only comes back if I'm home in Sheffield hanging out with family or friends and when I get mad at my husband and he just laughs at me. :P
Michelle

My accent came back stonger than ever once i got on this forum, just reading and typing brings it all back.

I agree. I feel so at home here.:P
Michelle

Originally posted by headup
I left Sheffield in '99. And by way of Manchester, London and Woking, ended up in Los Angeles. I now live just north of San Diego. I prefer SD to LA just because it's cleaner, more laid-back and less crowded than LA. LA is not an attractive place - sure, there are one or two gems...but as a city it's nothing like New York (an amazing place). San Francisco is nice too.

The guy who cut my hair when I lived in LA was from Sheffield too. In fact, he knew a former girlfriend of mine from the time he worked at Creator on West Street. Small world innit? Funny I'm from sheffield but lived in woking for 11 years. Now I've been in living Idaho since november 2003 - I'm totally legal now but still classed as an alien!

i live in fort worth texas. which part of sheffield are you from? i lived on charlotte rd right across from uniteds football ground

I lived near the Sheffield Wednesday football ground! Don't hate me. I'm not a football fan.

I lived on Braemore road.
X

I lost mine accent, it only comes back if I'm home in Sheffield hanging out with family or friends and when I get mad at my husband and he just laughs at me. :P
MichelleDITTO! I still have an English accent but it is a very stange one. My sheffield accent pops back when I speak to my sister but I've lost the dialect, it sounds like a fake yorkshire accent - Brian Glover style:hihi:

Owlsfan, I left Shefiield in 1990 and moved to Boca Raton, Florida (now in Lake Worth). I never left the owls, I work and go to school and Florida Atlantic University who's mascot in the burrowing owl (Blue and white too). Michelle:clap:


We lived in Margate,just south of Boca Rotan, until Wilma destroyed our house,lived there for 12 years,we've now moved to North central Florida east of Gainesville. I was born in Meadowhead but we moved to Meersbrook not long after. I know Lake Worth,i anchored my boat by the public park for a while, do they still run the green and yellow buses.

Mega monty, your parents were happy enough to see Americans over there fighting and dying along with us during WW2. Do you honestly think Hitler would have been beaten without them? If so you're delusional. If I choose to drive my three litre car across the United States at two bucks a gallon, that's my business and my country's business. USA remains the world's best hope for the future of Western ideals whether you like it or not. I for one do not like George Bush, but I'm one who has the ability to change that with my vote, so sorry if you don't and sorry you hate us so much, cos I don't hate you.


Buck,you're wrong,that clown doesn't just affect Americans,he affects the rest of the world because most Americans want a overlarge military which they despatch to foreign parts and cause havoc,Iraq being the latest example. Why do you have a massive military?because that industry employs an enormous number of Americans and you like to think you're a superpower,Iraq and Vietnam proved otherwise.

As for the ww2 bit,Germany declared war on the USA otherwise they would have sat on the sidelines and sold to both sides.:mad:

Buck,you're wrong,that clown doesn't just affect Americans,he affects the rest of the world because most Americans want a overlarge military which they despatch to foreign parts and cause havoc,Iraq being the latest example. Why do you have a massive military?because that industry employs an enormous number of Americans and you like to think you're a superpower,Iraq and Vietnam proved otherwise.

As for the ww2 bit,Germany declared war on the USA otherwise they would have sat on the sidelines and sold to both sides.:mad:
every country's government is selfish. You can't speak for 'most American people'. A country will not help another country unless there is something in it for them. It is the government, not the population.:o

every countrie's government is selfish. You can't speak for 'most American people'. A country will not help another country unless there is something in it for them. It is the government, not the population.:o


The population vote in the government and reflect its foreign policy. I've lived in the USA long enough to know how they think, have you heard the saying," my country right or wrong". 911 was a classic example of how they cause havoc in the world but bleat like stuck pigs when they get a taste.

Why do I live in the USA? Weather and being too old now to go through the trauma of moving,20 years younger and I'd be back in the Sheffield area in no time.:hihi:

I left Sheffield in 1971 and have been back four times since then. Going home next Monday via Scotland and really looking forward to it.

The population vote in the government and reflect its foreign policy. I've lived in the USA long enough to know how they think, have you heard the saying," my country right or wrong". 911 was a classic example of how they cause havoc in the world but bleat like stuck pigs when they get a taste.

Why do I live in the USA? Weather and being too old now to go through the trauma of moving,20 years younger and I'd be back in the Sheffield area in no time.:hihi: I totally take your point of view. I'm an 'alien'. I have just been treated like something some-one stepped in by my manager. I have given up my job and told the education department to 'stuff it!

I was told today "you smoke, don't you? You probably drink too. Will you be willing to take an alcohol test" I agreed but the police refused to waste their time to suit the Principal of our school. I'm hearbroken becauase I love the kids that I work with.:mad: I have no intentions of going back to that school.

You're 100% right! sorry to argue with you.:help:

I totally take your point of view. I'm an 'alien'. I have just been treated like something some-one stepped in by my manager. I have given up my job and told the education department to 'stuff it!

I was told today "you smoke, don't you? You probably drink too. Will you be willing to take an alcohol test" I agreed but the police refused to waste their time to suit the Principal of our school. I'm hearbroken becauase I love the kids that I work with.:mad: I have no intentions of going back to that school.

You 100% right! sorry to argue with you.:help:

Tulip, I don't mind who disagrees or agrees but life is too short to waste in the USA when you feel more comfortable among your own kind. If you're still young enough go back home and the best of luck.;)

The population vote in the government and reflect its foreign policy. I've lived in the USA long enough to know how they think, have you heard the saying," my country right or wrong". 911 was a classic example of how they cause havoc in the world but bleat like stuck pigs when they get a taste.

Why do I live in the USA? Weather and being too old now to go through the trauma of moving,20 years younger and I'd be back in the Sheffield area in no time.:hihi:Yes but the voters don't know what the government will do until they get in.

The population vote in the government and reflect its foreign policy. I've lived in the USA long enough to know how they think, have you heard the saying," my country right or wrong". 911 was a classic example of how they cause havoc in the world but bleat like stuck pigs when they get a taste.

Why do I live in the USA? Weather and being too old now to go through the trauma of moving,20 years younger and I'd be back in the Sheffield area in no time.:hihi: So 9-11 was a taste was it? That's really nice. I'm always interested to know what the reaction was supposed to be. Sit back and let the 'mahametados' crap all over us?

So 9-11 was a taste was it? That's really nice. I'm always interested to know what the reaction was supposed to be. Sit back and let the 'mahametados' crap all over us?We don't all feel that way. Most Brits were horrified and shocked to the core re 9/11. If a bomb had been dropped on London, certain people would have a very different point of view!:o

Sorry to rain on your parade but the events of 9/11 were never investigated but I made it my hobby to reaearch that event and it was all lies.

We will never have peace in the world while governments use false flags as an excuse to wage war.

We will never have peace in the world while governments use false flags as an excuse to wage war. The Government, Who ever they may be are not going to tell the population what their real policies are until the get in power. No-one would vote!

Those innocent people in the Twin Towers did not deserve 'a taste' as you put it!

No they didn't but nor did the Vietnamese,the Iraqis, the Panamanians, and all the other countries invaded by the USA.

It was obvious what Bush was up to but the US electorate voted him in twice. This mess in the middle east is a direct result of Americans voting without thinking.

If the purpose of the Iraq invasion was to change a cruel regime then all the logistics would have been in place before the invasion and implemented as soon as Hussein was ousted but the real reason was the oil,hence the mess.

Some of the old threads have appeared in this one, so I may be repeating myself. I've lived in Connecticut since 1977, was in Canada for nine years before that. Summers can be very hot, especially this year, and winters pretty cold, though less so than most of New England. I've spent a lot of time around the San Francisco bay area, especially in St. Jose, and Florida. I've done contract work in Pennsylvania, New York, Alabama, Vermont, Maine, Georgia, Tennessee, Ohio, Washington State, Oregon, New Hampshire, so I guess I know my way around. Every state is a little bit different from its neighbor, and a lot different from far away ones. But no matter where you go, you can rely on the national food and merchandise chains to be nearby.