Imagine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0Eyw3l3XM)

What happened, how did we get to this state, what is it like?

I cannot stand John Lennon.
Also the telly would be boring if we had world peace.

I cannot stand John Lennon.
Also the telly would be boring if we had world peace.

You really are carrying too much hate around for your own good, you know?

You really are carrying too much hate around for your own good, you know?

Ok so maybe hate was too strong a word :hihi:

Ok so maybe hate was too strong a word :hihi:

What about the content of the song?

What about the content of the song?

I'm hearing AJ say something along the lines of 'Hippy shy te'.....

I'm hearing AJ say something along the lines of 'Hippy shy te'.....

I like and appreciate the content of the song but I cannot get the picture of Lennon damaging his sons hearing because he didn't know how to eat steak.

Lennon was also a great one for spouting about the evils of materialism but he made sure
he raked his pile in.
The Beatles and the Stones did their share in creating the 60s drug culture the effects of which are still around today

I like and appreciate the content of the song but I cannot get the picture of Lennon damaging his sons hearing because he didn't know how to eat steak.

Go on AJ, remind us about that story, I think you've told it before but it was a while back...

Ok so maybe hate was too strong a word :hihi:

You see, if AJ can make a concession after a little rationalisation it must be possible for everybody!

Lennon was also a great one for spouting about the evils of materialism but he made sure
he raked his pile in.


I think everyone in the western world is gulity of that to a greater or lesser extent. I give to charity, perhaps more so than most, but I don't reduce my living standards to anything vaguely approximating that in an African village and donate everything above that level to people worse off than I am. And yet, I believe fairly strongly that the West should do more to help raise the standard of living in the rest of the world.

Always preferred the sentiment in Mother. Imagine has a nice sentiment but it goes against every instinct we have as human beings.

I think everyone in the western world is gulity of that to a greater or lesser extent. I give to charity, perhaps more so than most, but I don't reduce my living standards to anything vaguely approximating that in an African village and donate everything above that level to people worse off than I am. And yet, I believe fairly strongly that the West should do more to help raise the standard of living in the rest of the world.

Well some might say going back may reintroduce the good life, but in reality we can only go forward and we all need to do it together.

Coming from the first world and having travelled the third world I can see some differences and that some infrastructure is required. People though, don't like change, even if it is for the better, whether that's social or technological.

Well some might say going back may reintroduce the good life, but in reality we can only go forward and we all need to do it together.

I certainly don't mean to advocate a return to non-technological subsistence living. Indeed, that would make tihngs worse, not better, since the civilized world provides much excess food that the other countries can buy, or receive in aid.

I merely wanted to point out the hypocrisy inherent in, well, pretty much anybody who says "everyone should have a reasonably equal standard of living" and does not go and live in a mud hut on a beach and donate everything over and above that to people worse off than mud-hut-on-a-beach level. It's a fairly mild hypocrisy, I think, but it is there.


Ironically, the prerequisite for solving world peace might actually be having world peace to begin with; if nobody felt threatened, we could scrap a few tens of trillions of dollars spent on weapons and easily bring the entire planet up to USA standards of living.

I merely wanted to point out the hypocrisy inherent in, well, pretty much anybody who says "everyone should have a reasonably equal standard of living" and does not go and live in a mud hut on a beach and donate everything over and above that to people worse off than mud-hut-on-a-beach level. It's a fairly mild hypocrisy, I think, but it is there.Thats not hypocrisy. You don't achieve a better standard of living for the majority by having the people who have an average standard lowering theirs.

I'm not a communist but at times I feel like I am just because of the way I think. Most thoughts start off with an ideal, but the realist in me knows that no system is perfect. Technically I believe in consumerism and capitalism because it generates the turn over to create movement for a society to develop without the need for war (war is a brilliant generator for technological advancement).

Thats not hypocrisy. You don't achieve a better standard of living for the majority by having the people who have an average standard lowering theirs.

My monthly expenditure would improve the lives of about twenty Ethiopian tribesmen, if I didn't use it all up myself.

I'm not a communist but at times I feel like I am just because of the way I think.

There's nothing wrong with believing communism would be a good system if it worked. The sad truth is, it never could.


If all people in the world chose, voluntarily, to become the best person they could be and contribute to society in the best way they could; and if all people accepted, in return, only such wage as they could live in reasonable comfort, regardless of whether their efforts "earnt" them a wage twice, or ten times, or a million times that much; then many of the world's problems would be solved at a stroke. But we all know that will never happen. It happens on small scales in places such as the Israeli kibbutzes - and people who live on them are noticeably happier than the average.

Lennon was also a great one for spouting about the evils of materialism but he made sure he raked his pile in.
To defend him a little, 'Imagine' is a song about idealism. If you take it literally then it sounds silly. Lennon never demands peace, or no possessions, he says "imagine" them. It's quite a philosophical song if you can take away the layers of inherent hypocrisy.

I've known people who have given up well paying professions to become Police officers because if they didn't, as they say "who else would?"

Other people I know will work a profession doing a 40+ hour week and then go and do voluntary work at their own cost, whilst also donating money to it, why because there is gaps in the system.

I am an atheist, but had a sort of Baptist upbringing, basically me and my siblings went to Church for 10 or so years, whilst also mixing with other faiths and doing things with them. But I always admire religion because of it's ethics towards a peaceful society. There's religious people who you may look at and think their crazy, but the effort they put in for other peoples lives is staggering, often without recognition even.

I've had some great jobs, seen the world, tasted the best life has to offer, don't get me wrong brilliant, but I do prefer a simple life. No not one without technology and the benefits of modern day living, but one where I don't have everything, where I have to do without to get what I want, it's so much more rewarding. So many spoilt brats have I seen grow up go on to not care for anything or anybody (not all may I say).


Whilst walking the parks of my beloved home city I always think that i'd like to be able to donate something to the city or world, a little mark which helped make it better. As one person said their new years resolution would be this year, "smile at random people", well i've done that for a long time, I try to give positive words of encouragement too.


Another's vision of world peace (Star Trek) generally depicts a world without money, i've tried to imagine this one, very hard! But yes it could solve a lot of problems! But just think if Tony and Gorden had gone ahead with their plan to make us a cashless society (all digital), where would we be now?

My monthly expenditure would improve the lives of about twenty Ethiopian tribesmen, if I didn't use it all up myself.True but you giving it up wouldn't improve your standard of living, it would reduce it while improving theirs. So you're not actually improving or even maintaining your own living standards.

It isn't hypocritical to want to improve other peoples living standards while maintaining your own. If you felt women were persecuted against you wouldn't get a sex change because its hypocritical to support equality while being a man.

I think everyone in the western world is gulity of that to a greater or lesser extent. I give to charity, perhaps more so than most, but I don't reduce my living standards to anything vaguely approximating that in an African village and donate everything above that level to people worse off than I am. And yet, I believe fairly strongly that the West should do more to help raise the standard of living in the rest of the world.


That has been done for several decades by the richer western countries but all too often the money never gets to where it shoul but in the pockets of corrupt leaders instead.

Despite the millions of dollars donated to Haiti after the earthquake thousands of people are still living in tents

...
It isn't hypocritical to want to improve other peoples living standards while maintaining your own. If you felt women were persecuted against you wouldn't get a sex change because its hypocritical to support equality while being a man.

Is it necessary though? As an example, take business equalling out the pay grades between men and women, there is only so much money in the business, so the money has to come from somewhere to make the equality.

I think everyone in the western world is gulity of that to a greater or lesser extent.
It's not only the West-Japan, Hong Kong and now China and all the rest of the Emerging Market nations all want a slice of the action.

It's not only the West-Japan, Hong Kong and now China and all the rest of the Emerging Market nations all want a slice of the action.

Well, everybody is really a slice of the action, if anything were the side letting down since all we seem to be concerned with is either sales or customer services, oh don't forget sport!

I watch News24 just because, but otherwise I watch RT (Russia Today), it's more like watching a science and business channel. The BBC has even dropped Working Lunch!