Do you have any information where came the Sheffield name from?
When I asked a friend of mine,he saed it came from the river called Shef. Is it the right answer?

There is a river called the Sheaf that runs through Sheffield

Yes it comes from the River Sheaf, which is also the reason for a lot of 'Sheaf' references in Sheffield such as the Sheaf House pub on Bramall Lane and Hallam Uni's Sheaf Building.

Thanks!
Another thing: Sheffield is knowing with the name " city on (over) the 7 hills" isn't it.
I would like to hear more from you about Sheffiled and its history because I find it interesting for me.
Thank you for your intention.

Apparently Sheffield does take it's name form the River Sheaf, see the following link: http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/services/del/planning/nrq/conservation.htm
However Sheffield was originally an Anglo Saxon settlement called Escafeld, see the following link:http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/Custom_Pages/CustomPage.asp?Page=234

I thought it was the River Don that flowed through Sheffield?!

:?:

The river Don does run through Sheffield but so do a few others
eg. The Sheaf, The Porter and MeersBrook ??

The number of rivers and amount of water running into Sheffield is one of the main reasons for the growth of the Steel Industry

Out of curiosity I found this web site

http://www.tilthammer.com/water/

Sheffield has 5 rivers assoicated with it :

The Don, The Sheaf, The Porter, The Rivilin and The Loxley.
The last 4 are in fact tributarys of the Don.

regards
Nomme

Originally posted by "Michael_W"

However Sheffield was originally an Anglo Saxon settlement called Escafeld

Escafeld is also the Anglo-Saxon reference for Ecclesfield.

Michael is right! Sheffield was originaly called "Escafeld" but later on it was changed to Sheffield, due to the fact that the river Sheaf ran through a field or Sheaf - field. however, this was before I was born, ( yes really ) I shall not charge anything for that information as I am feeling generous tonight. Ha. Ha. :lol: :D :P

A good start if you are interested in the history of Sheffield are a couple of books by local author (now deceased) J Edward Vickers;
A popular History of Sheffield ISBN 0906787041
Old Sheffield Town ISBN 0906787017
I am not sure if they are still in print but am almost certain that Central Library will have copies

Mo

I always thought like Rome Sheffield was built on 7 hills with 7 rivers

Just out of curiosity, I don't suppose anybody knows how Leicester got it's name? I've searched for hours, but no joy. The main river in Leicester is the Soar, so there's no connection there.

Hiya 4alb
my information ref sheffields name, is that the original name was escafeld,
presumably from the clearing of the woodland by one of the original germanic settlers named esca, the german name for field was,and still is i believe, feld. therefore esca's feld ,obviously that's where we get our english word, field, from. its derivation is very similar to scunthorpe, scuna's thorpe (or village).in holland, denmark germany there are a lot of places ending in dorp, so it doesn't take much imagination to work out where some of our ancestors originated from you only have to glance at a map of the sheffield area ,indeed the north in general to see who put their stamp on the land, sorry for rattling on but i'm interested in this sort of thing.

With reference to the earlier posts; it is often said about the seven hills of Sheffield etc.

But can anyone tell me what the seven hills are? As a keen cyclist I reckon there are more than flippin seven hills!

Sorry to join this conversation so late - but I was looking at local names and history of them for inspiration when I came across another explanation - I was always told the name came from field of sheeves which the river was named after as well as the settlement - but no! apparently the river was named first the settlement name comes from the "fields around the sheaf", which is nothing to do with bails of cereal crops - The Sheaf just as the Humber and the Mersey all come from ancient words (briton, celtic, etc) meaning "border" first between the Brigantes Tribe and the mob of Celts in the North Midlands and later between the Anglo Saxon Kingdoms of Northumbria and Mercia.

Pick the bones out of that one

Originally posted by "Brigantes"

Sorry to join this conversation so late - but I was looking at local names and history of them for inspiration when I came across another explanation - I was always told the name came from field of sheeves which the river was named after as well as the settlement - but no! apparently the river was named first the settlement name comes from the "fields around the sheaf", which is nothing to do with bails of cereal crops - The Sheaf just as the Humber and the Mersey all come from ancient words (briton, celtic, etc) meaning "border" first between the Brigantes Tribe and the mob of Celts in the North Midlands and later between the Anglo Saxon Kingdoms of Northumbria and Mercia.

Pick the bones out of that one

Welcome Brigantes and happy posting :D

The name didn't change from Escafeld so much as evolve, BTW. For those unfamiliar with the Saxon pronunciation, Esc is pronounced esh. Knowing that, say Escafeld very quickly lots and lots, and you get Sheffield more or less. Before all our modern demand for exact spellings, things were pretty much written down as heard, with the odd little flourish of random letters or the changing of older words into more 'modern' ones to show how learned you were.
Dore was the main settlement in this area early on, and the word delightfully enough comes from a Saxon/Germanic word meaning Doorway, as it was the door between one kingdom and the next. In fact, we're very awkwardly splayed over kingdom boundaries here.
This area was great for trade because of these factors. It's known that there was a fair amount of trade with 'Vikings' as well as the two main kingdoms on whose borders we sat, and even with the 'wild men' up north.
As re-enactors who have to base our group on the kinds of people living in this area in the 10th and 11th centuries, we are very lucky. We call ourselves 'Anglo-Danes' and pretty much get to do/have/wear anything to do with the really quite cosmopolitan mix of people who lived and traded hereabouts. :D

Oh, and one more thing while I'm on the subject of old words...
This is a pet annoyance of mine, so just bear with me. :lol:
When you see that annoyingly twee little thing going on with YE (Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese, Ye Olde Shoppe) it's not said how you think. That isn't actually a Y, it's a thing called a 'thorn' that looked like a Y. Thorns are shorthand for TH and are pronounced TH. So Ye is pronounced correctly as the. I've even seen in old documents 'Y~t' meaning 'that' and Y~y meaning they.
Lecture over. :lol:

Originally posted by "cosywolf"

Oh, and one more thing while I'm on the subject of old words...
This is a pet annoyance of mine, so just bear with me. :lol:
When you see that annoyingly twee little thing going on with YE (Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese, Ye Olde Shoppe) it's not said how you think. That isn't actually a Y, it's a thing called a 'thorn' that looked like a Y. Thorns are shorthand for TH and are pronounced TH. So Ye is pronounced correctly as the. I've even seen in old documents 'Y~t' meaning 'that' and Y~y meaning they.
Lecture over. :lol:

cosywolf, that is very interesting what you've just told us, please lecture us some more.Can you confirm that the Meers Brook was once one of the boundaries between Wessex and Northumbria, and that Dore was the site of where the Kings of those areas signed a declaration (?)of peace and actually created England as a united country? How can you authenticate
any information you use, I'm not trying to be clever I'm just inerested in how these things can be proven, from what record etc.?

Crimbo

Originally posted by "Dug"

With reference to the earlier posts; it is often said about the seven hills of Sheffield etc.

But can anyone tell me what the seven hills are? As a keen cyclist I reckon there are more than flippin seven hills!I,m a keen cyclist as well Dug,,, maybe i know you, are you a racing cyclist like me or a member of the basket brigade....
Anyway back to the 7 hills.....
As a guess i would say......( These are top of the 7 hills )

1..crosspool
2..Stannington
3..Shirecliffe
4..Winkobank
5..Manor Top
6..Grenoside
7..Norton

All though as a cyclist the biggest hills are out in the peaks, the Sheffield hills are just steady climbs...
Talking of hills Winnats Pass,,,Rowsley to Stanton,, Mam nic are about the hardest climbs in the area.

Thank for the info, Cycleracer - I've been wanting to know the names and whereabouts of the seven hills for years, but found little info in local books.

I know the Wincobank and Shirecliffe hills (I'm sandwiched between them) but what about Barnsley Road up to Sheffield lane top? Surely that's another one of the hills?

Trouble is Lane Top is a summit in between Wincobank and Shirecliffe hills.
If you notice that Shirecliffe and Wincobank have there own summits, you can only get to them by going up a hill unlike lane top which can be accessed from flatter areas.
Lane top may be known as a continuation of Wincobank.
Makes sense to me but other views may differ.

Yes, that makes sense to me as well. So I suppose that the Barnsley Road / Firs Hill hilltop is also a continuation of Shirecliffe?

Originally posted by "Abby"

Yes, that makes sense to me as well. So I suppose that the Barnsley Road / Firs Hill hilltop is also a continuation of Shirecliffe?
Correct Sir.

Originally posted by "crimbo"


cosywolf, that is very interesting what you've just told us, please lecture us some more.Can you confirm that the Meers Brook was once one of the boundaries between Wessex and Northumbria, and that Dore was the site of where the Kings of those areas signed a declaration (?)of peace and actually created England as a united country? How can you authenticate
any information you use, I'm not trying to be clever I'm just inerested in how these things can be proven, from what record etc.?

Crimbo

Sorry - just got back into work. Legend has it that that is correct. It should be easy enough to authenticate (or not) and I will do my best as soon as I have a mo. :D
I'm glad someone likes my lectures :lol:

Check this out

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Anglo/

The written history of Dore can be traced back to the year 829 and an entry (wrongly recorded as 827) in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle - “And Ecgbert led an army to Dore against the Northumbrians and they offered him obedience and concord and thereupon they separated” and thus King Ecgbert became “Our Lord of the whole English speaking race, from the Channel to the Firth of Forth”.

The importance of Dore was its position on the boundary of the Anglo Saxon kingdoms of Mercia, recently conquered by King Ecgbert of Wessex, and Northumbria, the second most powerful kingdom. At the time, Northumbria was under pressure from viking raids and unable to fight on two fronts, leading to the acceptance of Ecgbert as overlord and effectively the first king of all England.

Good work, that man. 8)

Looking forward to catching up on the forum after a few days away...

Sheffield has 5 rivers assoicated with it :

The Don, The Sheaf, The Porter, The Rivilin and The Loxley.
The last 4 are in fact tributarys of the Don.
And Meersbrook

Originally posted by "Sidla"

Just out of curiosity, I don't suppose anybody knows how Leicester got it's name? I've searched for hours, but no joy. The main river in Leicester is the Soar, so there's no connection there.
the "cester" bit is derived from the roman "castra" meaning camp, other variants being caster and chester as in Lancaster and Manchester. The "Lei" comes from the river Leire (also known as Leir, Leyre and Legre
The romans called Leicester Ratae Coritanorum the latin root of Leire-Caster comes from the influence of Latin on the English language, the anglicised name emerging later. I'm not sure at what point the natives rejected most (all?) the roman names for towns (like Bath, they called it Aquae Sulis). By about 900 AD it had names like Ledecestre, Legecestria, Leyrcestria, seems to be Leicester by the time of the Domesday book 1086.

Why Leicester not Soarcester is (not very well) explained here.

http://www.the-journal.org.uk/archive/288/3453632670.html

Soar brook was rerouted to join the river Leire resulting in the river changing its name.

Only just seen this topic, so here's my bit of info to add to all the others.

The name of the River Sheaf (derived from the Old English word meaning a frontier or divide) reminds us again that this was border country between highland and lowland. It came to be recognized, with its tributary the Meers Brook, as part of the boundary between the Anglian kingdoms of Mercia and Northumbria. It would appear that the Anglian settlers lived here in a more or less quiet, industrious way; but we don't know exactly when the growing village or 'township' of Escafeld (the feld or open space by the Sheaf) was so named. Sheaf was spelt Sceath then, hence SCEATH FELD which has translated over the years into SHEFFIELD.

An important happening in AD641 had a tremendous, lasting effect on the area; this was the conversion of the heathen Angles to Christianity. This lead to the building of small wooden churches in important villages which in turn lead to the establishment and expansion of more permanent communities.

The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (started by King Alfred) gives little information about our region during this time, but an entry for the year AD829 names an event which would indicate that in the 350 or so years since Anglian settlers first arrived here, the land had been well cleared and cultivated and a number of small, well-managed townships had grown up around the original settlements. Among these would be Attercliffe, Bramley, Brightside, Brincliffe, Darnall, Fulwood, Gleadless, Handsworth, Heeley, Longley, Norton, Owlerton, Shirecliffe, Southey, Tinsley, Totley, Wadsley, Walkley and Woodseats. It's interesting to note how many of these names end in 'ley', which signifies a clearing in the forest. 'Ton' at the end of a name means 'an enclosed farmstead', as in Norton and Owlerton.

In other parts of the country, the Anglo-Saxons destroyed or left to decay, all that the Romans had built, while they themselves lived primitively in their crude huts of wattle and daub. However, in the Sheffield area, there were no Roman buildings, only the old road from Templeborough, which gradually became covered with soil and grass until it disappeared from sight.

In AD 829, most of England was in the possession of Ecgbert, originally an under king of Kent, who had routed the Mercians and had been accepted as king by the East Saxons, the Anglians and all the kingdoms south of the Humber. This left only Northumbria outside his rule, so Ecgbert marched to the village of Dore on the outskirts of Sheffield. The borders of Mercia and Northumbria were the River Sheaf (the name of which means a boundary river), the Meers Brook, (which means brook of the boundary) and the Limb Brook. Ecgbert and his army faced the Northumbrians, but they submitted to him without a fight and admitted his claim to be 'King of all the English'. The probable reason for the Northumbrians' peaceful submission was the fact that the early ninth century saw an increase in raids of Vikings or Danes on their territory and, being in no position for a war on two fronts, they were glad to come under Ecgbert's protection.


It's also interesting to note that, up until quite recently (maybe the 40's), locals said Sheffeld, not Sheffield.

Field by the River Sheaf - Sheffield.

Hamlet by the River Rother - Rotherham.

hmm, when i was at school we were taught that sheffield came from sheaf field because it was originally fields of growing wheat
long b4 it became a village then town then city.
Hence the sheaf of wheat on the city arms etc.,
cheers shawn

Interesting topic about hills. A couple of questions. Would the area around the old cinema 'The Forum', (at the top of the hill coming from Herries road viaduct, where the road from Southey hill joins it) be classified as a hill, or just an extension of another hill? Also, when I was a kid, my grandmother lived on Loxley View Road, just about the highest point in Crookes. I remember at the end of Loxley View Road, I could look DOWN on Stannington. Would this be classified as one of Sheffield's hills?
As a point of interest, I lived on Browning Road, at the top. While Grenoside was higher than where I lived, I remember that the top of Foxhill Road, which leads into Grenoside, was at the same elevation as the village of Grenoside. Is/was Grenoside actually considered to be part of Sheffield? BTW, I have always understood that Sheffield was built on and around seven hills. On a similar subject, was there a river that ran past Millhouses Park? It's been 55 years since I used to go there with my mam and Dad. Is it still as nice? I don't remember where Eccleshall Road ended, was it around Norton? The mists of time time sure cloud the memory!!

Sorry about the repeat, I tried to edit my reply, then hit the wrong button.

Originally posted by oldtimer
Sorry about the repeat, I tried to edit my reply, then hit the wrong button. No problem - I've removed it for you.

Oldtimer

To answer just a couple of your points...

Grenoside is definitley part of Sheffield now but it was possibly outside the city boundary in living memory. My mother was fond of telling us that she was born in Derbyshire...at Totley in 1917.

The river through Millhouses park is the Sheaf joined by the Meersbrook somewhere along Broadfield Road. I think you can still see the Meersbrook culvert by the footbridge leading to Little London road.

Ecclesall Road ends at Dore Moor where it becomes Hathersage Road.

In the early fifties me and my pal used to hitch-hike along that road to get to Hathersage or Grindleford during the summer holidays; we were supposed to get the train from Heeley station but there were better things to spend our money on than train fares. :)

GB

Just a few comments to add to those of jimbol.

The 'ley' bit can be tricky - the Normans used it too and more widely, so according to David Hey areas like Walkley could easily be post-conquest and I do not think there is any solid evidence to adequately date when certain areas of Sheffield were named. I do not know why, but I find the supposed Norse origins of 'Crookes' not desperately convincing.

The Norman scribes for the Domesday survey appeared to have some difficulty with the Old English 'sh' and tended to write it 'sc'. Hence the shires are noted as scires in Domesday. Along with Escafeld there are also references to Scafeld and Hallam (or Halun as it was written) in the survey, and indeed Attecliffe. The precise location of these is difficult. David Hey (I think) suggests that Halun was most likely at the castle site and might therefore actually be 'Sheffield'. This is a favourite debate amongst Sheffield historians, so I don't want to be too declamatory about that claim. However, the castle is, I believe, the only place in the region with really good evidence for a grand Anglo-Saxon building, in this case under the later castle remains.

I do wonder if there has been some confusion of Escafeld and Ecclesfield in the past, since Ecclesfield was the pre-eminent ecclesiastical centre in the area for some time (the eccles bit being the giveaway).

Lastly, less of the crude wattle and daub, please! Go and have a look at the longhall being constructed by Regia Anglorum in Kent, which is truly very grand. Stone buildings as the Romans built were all very well, but they need a complex society relying on slavery to produce things like roof tiles and lead flashing at reasonable cost in order to work. Taxation and monetary policy was quite complex in later Anglo-Saxon England but it still did not direct enough money upwards for that many stone buildings. That's part of the reason why the Norman Invasion was such a shock!

Here's a link to the Regia Anglorum site in Kent (I hope)

...Regia (http://www.wychurst.org/index.html)

Don't forget there's a local group you can join if Sheffield's Saxon past interests you
Visit www.hallamregia.myby.co.uk for more info

Plug plug, teehee

Originally posted by Guest
A good start if you are interested in the history of Sheffield are a couple of books by local author (now deceased) J Edward Vickers;
A popular History of Sheffield ISBN 0906787041
Old Sheffield Town ISBN 0906787017
I am not sure if they are still in print but am almost certain that Central Library will have copies

Mo

There is a relatively recent book on the history of Sheffield that I have bought. I can't remember the title, but it is something like "Sheffield History" or "History of Sheffield". I bought it from that Sheffield shop on Surrey Street (which has loads of really good books on local history).

It's also interesting to note that, up until quite recently (maybe the 40's), locals said Sheffeld, not Sheffield. [/B][/QUOTE]

Must have been before the 40's - I was born in Crookes in 1938 and I remember as a very young child being told that we were going into Sheffield on the tram.

Note - 'we were going into Sheffield' - not into town.

It may not be exactly this thread, but does anyone know when
'Crooks' turned into 'Crookes'?

Originally posted by chill
There is a relatively recent book on the history of Sheffield that I have bought. I can't remember the title, but it is something like "Sheffield History" or "History of Sheffield". I bought it from that Sheffield shop on Surrey Street (which has loads of really good books on local history).

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1859360459/qid=1064322750/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_1_8/202-2552095-5219026) is the book I was talking about.

well on this map of yorkshire I have from 1610, Sheffield is written as Sheaffeld and Ecclesfield is written as Ecklesfeild if that helps?

Not wishing to sound completely stupid, but where is the Meersbrook? I don't see anything on my map in that area but the Sheaf.

The Meers Brook runs through the Gleadless Valley, between Heeley and Meersbrook, and into the Sheaf.

It, meaning "border brook", indeed used to be the Yorks/Derbys (and therefore the Northumbria/Mercia) boundary. The border ran up the Sheaf through Abbeydale, up the Meersbrook, over the hill (just north of Charnock Hall) and then along the Shire Brook (oddly enough) to join the Rother between Beighton and Woodhouse.

Consequently, Crystal Peaks, Beighton, Charnock, Norton, Woodseats, Totley, Dore - all these are 'really' in Derbyshire, although part of Sheffield for administrative purposes, because boundary changes are purely administrative; they do not change the "true" counties.

Sheaf (sceaf) = boundary. This refers to the river which separated mercia from northumbria in this area.
Field (feld) = clearing forming settlement.
SC pronounced SH in Old English.
Settlement by the Boundary = SHEFFIELD

in reply to the origin of the name Leicester the Latin derivation is this.

LEI means ( Full of ) and CESTER (foreigners) therefore Leicester = Full of foreigners Makes sense to me!
Ps. See also Wolverhampton ( the black country)???

Originally posted by nimo118
in reply to the origin of the name Leicester the Latin derivation is this.

LEI means ( Full of ) and CESTER (foreigners) therefore Leicester = Full of foreigners Makes sense to me!
Ps. See also Wolverhampton ( the black country)???
Veiled racism pretending to be humour is still racism.

Originally posted by max
Veiled racism pretending to be humour is still racism. if you have watch the politically correct stand up shows on TV which are todays so-called humour then you must realise why politically INcorrect humour must remain part of BRITISH heritage

Originally posted by nimo118
if you have watch the politically correct stand up shows on TV which are todays so-called humour then you must realise why politically INcorrect humour must remain part of BRITISH heritage and freedom of speech or are we no longer living in a democracy????

Originally posted by nimo118
and freedom of speech or are we no longer living in a democracy????

You are free to speak, just don't be surprised when people pick up on your comments. If you don't want your comments to be picked up on, then don't use your freedom of speech. Simple.

Originally posted by nimo118
and freedom of speech or are we no longer living in a democracy????
Am I not allowed to use the same freedom of speech to point out your racist language?

Originally posted by max
Veiled racism pretending to be humour is still racism.

Free speech – YES – but I thought that this thread was called the Origin of Sheffield Name. At least nimo’s post on Leicester is on the origin of a place name.

But, I guess, you pcs and bleeding hearts have to push your ‘racist’ views anywhere and everywhere – whether or not it is actually there. You are the modern equivalent of the witch-hunters of the Middle Ages and later – an example of the worst kind of intolerance – the thought-police of Orwell.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
You are free to speak, just don't be surprised when people pick up on your comments. If you don't want your comments to be picked up on, then don't use your freedom of speech. Simple.

The idea of having 'free speech' and a 'moderator' is oxymoronic.

And in this age of the pc brigade, free speech, simply (not 'simple') does not exist.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
The idea of having 'free speech' and a 'moderator' is oxymoronic.
Reading your posts here and on the thread relating to wind turbines I'm gobsmacked by your sheer hypocrisy. On the one hand you want totally unregulated freedom of speech irrespective of whether that speech offends somone. On the other you want strict building regulations to prevent the woolly hat brigade being offended visually.

I do wish you could be consistent.

Originally posted by nimo118
in reply to the origin of the name Leicester the Latin derivation is this.

LEI means ( Full of ) and CESTER (foreigners) therefore Leicester = Full of foreigners Makes sense to me!
Ps. See also Wolverhampton ( the black country)???

Someone on this thread thinks that was a PROPER answer on your part, so I have to challenge you

Speaking as someone who was born in the Black Country, it was NOT called that because of the ethnic mix, you ignorant git, and of course we all know that, except Carlwarker perhaps?

There are two suggestions for the origins of the name. One evokes images of red, fiery furnaces by night and black, sooty citadels by day. Another, tells of the rich, loamy earth mixing with the eight foot coal seam which dominates the land. The Black Country today is much more, but very much the product of its unique heritage; cradle of the Industrial Revolution.

Then we come to Leicester -

Saxon, Leagceaster, from Leag or Ley, a field or common, and cester, a camp or city, from the Latin Castrum; It was probably built hard by a leag or common; a camp of the Roman legion. (See Chester.)

Now that we have the true meanings, are we allowed to say that Nimo is a prejudiced git, or do we still have to pander to him and let him be as rude as he likes?

Originally posted by max
Reading your posts here and on the thread relating to wind turbines I'm gobsmacked by your sheer hypocrisy. On the one hand you want totally unregulated freedom of speech irrespective of whether that speech offends somone. On the other you want strict building regulations to prevent the woolly hat brigade being offended visually.

I do wish you could be consistent.


Pardon! Nowhere have I stated that I ‘want’ anything – you INFERRED that. And, ‘building regulations’, what are you on about? – another example, not just of inference, but of hallucination, and the thought-police mentality again.

Please learn to read AND comprehend (not infer or hallucinate) what I wrote on the wind-turbine thread and this one. I am, actually, in favour of them as an energy source, and nowhere, have I stated otherwise, but I would rather not have them placed in the few remaining, relatively unspoiled, parts of Britain.

As regards ‘you want totally unregulated freedom of speech irrespective of whether that speech offends someone.’ you are correct (this time, for once) … sticks and stones … etc.

Originally posted by Belle
Someone on this thread thinks that was a PROPER answer on your part, so I have to challenge you

Speaking as someone who was born in the Black Country, it was NOT called that because of the ethnic mix, you ignorant git, and of course we all know that, except Carlwarker perhaps?... Now that we have the true meanings, are we allowed to say that Nimo is a prejudiced git, or do we still have to pander to him and let him be as rude as he likes?

You, I am quite sure, will say what you like – but heaven help anyone who disagrees with you, and the rest of your intolerant brigade.

Again, please learn to read what I wrote. As regards nimo’s post, I simply stated that he was, at least, akin to THIS thread on the origin of the Sheffield name, as apposed to the posts (within this thread) inferring racism. Nowhere have I stated that I agree with him – that is your inference. Again, an example of the knee-jerk reaction that you, and your like, are so fond of.

As regards your comment on the Black Country – you obviously have no sense of humor. I am quite aware of the industrial origins of it’s name.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
The idea of having 'free speech' and a 'moderator' is oxymoronic.
As far as this argument goes, everyone is using a different understanding of the term 'Free Speech' - hence very little will elucidated as a result.

Failing to define terms at the beginning leads to confusion like this.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
You, I am quite sure, will say what you like – but heaven help anyone who disagrees with you, and the rest of your intolerant brigade.

Again, please learn to read what I wrote. As regards nimo’s post, I simply stated that he was, at least, akin to THIS thread on the origin of the Sheffield name, as apposed to the posts (within this thread) inferring racism. Nowhere have I stated that I agree with him – that is your inference. Again, an example of the knee-jerk reaction that you, and your like, are so fond of.

As regards your comment on the Black Country – you obviously have no sense of humor. I am quite aware of the industrial origins of it’s name.


What is knee jerk is people like you and T020 suggesting that I am intolerant (because I wont tolerate other people's intolerance?) every time I post anything

But you shant stop me though, because the freedom of speech is as much mine as it is yours

Someone whose contribution to a thread on the origin of place names involves making fun of cities because of their sizeable ethnic communities, needs no defence from you, he clearly knows he is walking on the wild side.

People who tell prejudiced jokes know that they are bound to offend some people, it goes with the territory.

I dont know why you should find it remarkable that those of us who are offended should comment.

- and where you are concerned, I have no sense of humour whatsoever.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
As far as this argument goes, everyone is using a different understanding of the term 'Free Speech' - hence very little will elucidated as a result.

Failing to define terms at the beginning leads to confusion like this.

Free means FREE - not limited. Hence 'free speech' means being able to say what you like – independent of the consequences or the feelings of other people. Anything other is NOT free speech - which we do not have in this society.

Again: 'sticks and stones ...etc.'

Originally posted by Carlwarker
Pardon! Nowhere have I stated that I ‘want’ anything – you INFERRED that. And, ‘building regulations’, what are you on about? – another example, not just of inference, but of hallucination, and the thought-police mentality again.

Please learn to read AND comprehend (not infer or hallucinate) what I wrote on the wind-turbine thread and this one. I am, actually, in favour of them as an energy source, and nowhere, have I stated otherwise, but I would rather not have them placed in the few remaining, relatively unspoiled, parts of Britain.

As regards ‘you want totally unregulated freedom of speech irrespective of whether that speech offends someone.’ you are correct (this time, for once) … sticks and stones … etc.
When you argue that you would rather not have them placed somewhere you consider unspoiled then I felt I was correct in inferring that you would want some form of control or regulation to prevent this.

In my post I was merely asking why it is alright to regulate one thing, structures, but not another, offensive language.

Originally posted by Belle
What is knee jerk is people like you and T020 suggesting that I am intolerant (because I wont tolerate other people's intolerance?) every time I post anything

But you shant stop me though, because the freedom of speech is as much mine as it is yours

Someone whose contribution to a thread on the origin of place names involves making fun of cities because of their sizeable ethnic communities, needs no defence from you, he clearly knows he is walking on the wild side.

People who tell prejudiced jokes know that they are bound to offend some people, it goes with the territory.

I dont know why you should find it remarkable that those of us who are offended should comment.

- and where you are concerned, I have no sense of humour whatsoever.

I would find it remarkable if you didn't comment and I'm all for it. But that applies to EVERYONE not just you. Advocating free speech does not infer agreeing (or disagreeing) with what someone says - it simply infers that they have a right to say it.

And as regards your sense of humour, it seems to be non-existent. But, hey, don’t get your knickers in a twist, it’s a public forum, you’re allowed your opinion – as others are allowed theirs.

Originally posted by max
When you argue that you would rather not have them placed somewhere you consider unspoiled then I felt I was correct in inferring that you would want some form of control or regulation to prevent this.

In my post I was merely asking why it is alright to regulate one thing, structures, but not another, offensive language.

You were making a personal attack on my integrity (... my sheer hypocrisy) – which is fine, if it is true. However, I did not argue anything, I simply stated a personal preference – nowhere did I state or imply that I wanted some form of control or regulation. Yet another example of incorrect inference and false reasoning.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
I would find it remarkable if you didn't comment and I'm all for it. But that applies to EVERYONE not just you. Advocating free speech does not infer agreeing (or disagreeing) with what someone says - it simply infers that they have a right to say it.

And as regards your sense of humour, it seems to be non-existent. But, hey, don’t get your knickers in a twist, it’s a public forum, you’re allowed your opinion – as others are allowed theirs.

I am glad that you find my willingness to keep on engaging with this Forum and to continue to contribute to various threads, as something you are all for.

I never said that other people should not also support this wonderful forum by posting their views, I merely reserve the right to disagree when necessary. A right I know you would uphold on my behalf.

Perhaps there is less between us than you think.

I have a great sense of humour as long as it is not dependent on misogyny (did I spell that right, it doesnt look right) or blind prejudice.

I spend many happy hours in the comedy club, paying good money to be entertained by good performers.

Perhaps the truth is that I find less to laugh about in the words of some of the people you defend. Those who get their kicks out of highlighting differences and advocating racial, sexual or class differences, for example.

I sense that you dont agree with them but that you defend their right so to say. I probably agree with you. We need to be open to discussion about sensitive issues. But we dont need to kick people like me who have a strong sense of what is right and what is diversive (another word I am not sure of, but I think you know what I mean, being a wordsmith yourself).

I love the world and all its people, I am by no means in the minority, not in this forum and not in the world. We must keep saying that we feel this way, because it is a very small counter to the people who would like the world to be much smaller and more closely defined.

I know it can get up the noses of those people who see things in a different way, but that is the glory and wonder of this site, it lets us all have our say and lets others read our words and pitch themselves at whatever level they feel most suited to.

I dont mind being criticised for being a staunch upholder of the rights of all men

But I do mind personal unnecessary attacks. Perhaps you might think again, it is your choice, but I would hope that you would see that I am more nurturer of the oppressed than a self-server.

It doesnt matter in the end.

The world is big enough to accomodate us both, and all between and all outside

Originally posted by Carlwarker
Blah blah

Originally posted by Max
Blah blah again

What a complete waste of space. Someone could have created a masterpiece. Instead, an entire page of a thread about the origin of the Sheffield name is just wasted on petty squabbling.

Originally posted by alchresearch
What a complete waste of space. Someone could have created a masterpiece. Instead, an entire page of a thread about the origin of the Sheffield name is just wasted on petty squabbling.
Nurse! He's out of bed again.

Hiya, A long long time ago Sheffield town was the area of what is the town centre today - it had a castle, an orchard (Orchard Square and lots of small industrial areas. The surrounding area was mainly farmland and the King's hunting grounds hence Deerlands and Doe Royd (Royd means clearing). As Sheffield's industry grew so did the need for housing as more people migrated to the area where work and a wage could be found.
There was indeed a river Sheaf but also lots of sheaves of corn - sheaf - field.

Hiya Sidla, have a look on http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/
which has a section on place names.

Also try http://www.knowhere.co.uk/518.html and find the Leicester version - your answer could be in there somewhere.

Originally posted by tiffy
Hiya, A long long time ago Sheffield town was the area of what is the town centre today - it had a castle, an orchard (Orchard Square and lots of small industrial areas. The surrounding area was mainly farmland and the King's hunting grounds hence Deerlands and Doe Royd (Royd means clearing). As Sheffield's industry grew so did the need for housing as more people migrated to the area where work and a wage could be found.
There was indeed a river Sheaf but also lots of sheaves of corn - sheaf - field.

Thankyou to this person for returning to the point in hand

45AD The Celtic Brigantes tribe held out against the Roman Legions who at the time completely controlled southern Britain. The Celtic Brigantes occupied a hill fort on the bank of the river Don

400 AD, Saxon tribes settle beside the river Sheaf, their settlement is called Scafeld.

And that hill fort was Wincobank

http://oldster.future.easyspace.com/brig.html

Does anybody know why Sheffield is called Sheffield? Did somebody officially name it and how has it come to be the size it is??

I know i really should go and research from history books but i just thought i'd see if anyone on this forum might know. Save me abit of trouble hehe.

Situated on the River Don, Sheffield is surrounded by seven hills that contain iron ore and by the 16th century had obtained a reputation for its production of knives, scissors, scythes and shears. These goods were mainly made in houses and small workshops. By the 18th century Sheffield also became an important coal mining area. In 1796 the population of the town was 9,095.

In 1742 Thomas Boulsover, a Sheffield cutler, began to fuse a thin layer of silver to copper to produce what became known as Sheffield Plate. Other craftsmen in Sheffield began to use this method to produce tableware that looked like silver, at a fraction of its cost.

The 1840s saw another important development that was to contribute to Sheffield's prosperity. Benjamin Huntsman, working at a foundry at Handsworth, 4 miles east of Sheffield, discovered how to make good quality hard steel with less expenditure of labour and fuel. This stimulated the trade and by 1787 there were eleven steel-makers using the Huntsman method.

During the second half of the 18th century industrial development and a growth in population increased the demand for houses. Terraces of small houses were built on the colder, northern slopes, whereas the successful business community built their larger houses on the higher, south-facing slopes of the town.

The 1821 the population of Sheffield had reached 31,314. Over the next forty years the population grew rapidly and by 1861 the number of inhabitants had reached 185,000.

WOW! cheers johnC, that goes some way to answering my question. But where did the name Sheffield originate?

Hmm maybe a farmer was wondering round his field one day when he was saying the word "field" but suddenly smashed his foot on a rock so it sounded like "sheeeffield" ?

OK Maybe not :s

Originally posted by J-Blaze
Hmm maybe a farmer was wondering round his field one day when he was saying the word "field" but suddenly smashed his foot on a rock so it sounded like "sheeeffield" ?

OK Maybe not :s

Actually you're not far off there J-Blaze, Sheffield was originally a big farming town with a big trade in Sheafs of wheat and stuff, and was originally called Sheef field, eventually they truncated it and decided to call it Sheffield.

I remember me Nan told me that once many years ago.

I believe the river Sheaf was named before the town... hence Sheaf field.

[edited]

...a good article here:

http://www.jimsdesk.fsnet.co.uk/history.html

Common early forms of the name are "Escafeld," "Scafeld" or "Sceathfeld," all of which mean "Clearing by the Sheaf."

Just for info if you look at Sheffield's coat of arms it features 3 sheafs of wheat and also has the iron and steel trade represented with the anvil and tools for handling ingots and crucibles.The latin roughly transletes into from thou labour(work) thou shall profit,

The name Sheffield came about through the compilation of the Domesday Book. When King Williams army were victorious at the batle of Hastings, William sent French Scribes to every part of England to find out just what he had won.
Its said that when these scribes arrived in what is now Sheffield and when the villagers were asked in broken English as to the name of the village they answered Escafeld but the French just wrote down how the name sounded to them which was SCEFFELD.
True or false its a story I like to believe.

:wave:

Originally posted by markham
Sheaf (sceaf) = boundary. This refers to the river which separated mercia from northumbria in this area.
Field (feld) = clearing forming settlement.
SC pronounced SH in Old English.
Settlement by the Boundary = SHEFFIELD

I still stick to my explanation from an earlier post.

The sheffield coat of arms depicts a 'sheaf' of wheat, and a 'sheaf' of arrows because there's no other way of depicting the word 'SHEAF' - the original Saxon word for 'Boundary' (The River Sheaf = River boundary)

Escafeld is also the Anglo-Saxon reference for Ecclesfield.



Ecclesfield is referred to in The Domesday Book as Ecclesfelt.

On a similar subject, was there a river that ran past Millhouses Park? It's been 55 years since I used to go there with my mam and Dad. Is it still as nice?

it was the Sheaf that runs through Millhouses, and used to feed the paddling pools there. Sadly, the Lido is long gone (see elsewhere on the forum for that!)

it's not really got quite as many facilities, these days, but it's still a pleasant little park to stroll around, or play in

I don't remember where Eccleshall Road ended, was it around Norton? The mists of time time sure cloud the memory!!

ecclesall road starts at "town", and heads out to hunters bar and endcliffe park, andup the hill to banner cross, where it becomes ER South, and it runs up toward whirlow. it's on the opposite hillside to Norton. you can look across the sheaf valley toward norton, and you can see the massive water tower on the top of the hill, near(ish) graves park, built in 1961 (iirc) to serve Gleadless Valley it's a big landmak as you look across the city.

As a Sheffielder born and bread I have read all the replys with intrerest, very dissapointed with the way the Racial aspect came in, when the question was to do with the name of Sheffield. As I was born in the early 50's and left Sheffield in the 70's and revisited and worked in the town untill the 90's the people I grew with and still in contact with have not a Raciest thought.

I have to say this Sheffield folk are the most genuine and understanding people in England.

The origin of where the name came from is important and the replies are great, but Sheffielders have a pride of their town,The Steel and the Cutlery Industry is known world wide.

When I was away from Yorkshire people used to say where do you come from Sheffield was the reply, where is that? the answer was next time you eat your dinner the knife you use says "Made in Sheffield" and the roast beef you eat on a Sunday is called "Yorkshire Pudding" so Sheffield is in Yorkshire, the conversation then was changed. Are there other people who have said this from Sheffield

Interesting topic about hills. A couple of questions. Would the area around the old cinema 'The Forum', (at the top of the hill coming from Herries road viaduct, where the road from Southey hill joins it) be classified as a hill, or just an extension of another hill? Also, when I was a kid, my grandmother lived on Loxley View Road, just about the highest point in Crookes. I remember at the end of Loxley View Road, I could look DOWN on Stannington. Would this be classified as one of Sheffield's hills?
As a point of interest, I lived on Browning Road, at the top. While Grenoside was higher than where I lived, I remember that the top of Foxhill Road, which leads into Grenoside, was at the same elevation as the village of Grenoside. Is/was Grenoside actually considered to be part of Sheffield? BTW, I have always understood that Sheffield was built on and around seven hills. On a similar subject, was there a river that ran past Millhouses Park? It's been 55 years since I used to go there with my mam and Dad. Is it still as nice? I don't remember where Eccleshall Road ended, was it around Norton? The mists of time time sure cloud the memory!!

There was a river that ran the length of Millhouses Park, never did know the name of it though, it was mostly on the boundary of the park between the park and the railway line. Just by the boating pond it crossed the path and ran past the bathing pool and in fact part of the flow was diverted into the pool as a continuous feed and bleed system, hence the freshness of the millhouses pool and it only froze over on the severest of winters, I think it was the summer of 1947 the pool was packed to capacity because it was about the only cool place in Sherffield to swim.

There was a river that ran the length of Millhouses Park, never did know the name of it though, it was mostly on the boundary of the park between the park and the railway line. Just by the boating pond it crossed the path and ran past the bathing pool and in fact part of the flow was diverted into the pool as a continuous feed and bleed system, hence the freshness of the millhouses pool and it only froze over on the severest of winters, I think it was the summer of 1947 the pool was packed to capacity because it was about the only cool place in Sherffield to swim.

see my comment about the river in post 84, here:- http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1817692&postcount=84

I spent many a happy hour paddling in that river, getting sodden wet through, and getting played hell with off my mother.

The Old English name of Sheffield is 'Escafeld'; Brigantes and Cosywolf, I see, have pretty much covered the details of the origin of the name already. Perhaps the first major settlement in the Sheffield area was the Iron Age hillfort at Templeborough, near Meadowhall.

BTW, the Yorkshire Iron Age tribe 'Brigantes', did their name by any chance become the origin of the medieval term 'Brigands'?