In the Star tonight is a story about 2 schools who remained open and the Head Teachers praised the teaching staff and kids for getting in.
What about the poor support staff - caretaker who would be up at crack of dawn to clear paths and cleaning staff to make sure school is clean for kids.
Teachers may be important in a school, but so to are the support staff, lets not forget that!!!
On another note are those head teachers trying for medals in keeping schools open and making staff and kids risk injury in this weather?

I've not seen this report. Did he specificaly state 'teaching' staff?

I'm not entirley sure what you are getting at here, the fact that the school stayed open being a good thing or a bad thing. Care to elaborate?

I've not seen this report. Did he specificaly state 'teaching' staff?

I'm not entirley sure what you are getting at here, the fact that the school stayed open being a good thing or a bad thing. Care to elaborate?

I reckon they mean that it's so often the teachers that get praise for struggling in & not the teaching assistants, lunchtime supervisors, catering staff etc.

I reckon they mean that it's so often the teachers that get praise for struggling in & not the teaching assistants, lunchtime supervisors, catering staff etc.

Which is why I asked if the Head had singled out teaching staff. As far as I am concerned, if he had just said 'staff' then that means all staff involved, not just teachers.

Just read the Star report and it makes more than one reference to "staff" being praised - not just the teachers. And well done Lydgate Juniors who have stayed open all week too.

Goon - I was pointing out that in general support staff are forgotten.
Most people just think of teachers when it states school staff they forget the hard workers behind the scenes. A bit like hospitals where normally people think of just doctors and nurses.

Personally I don't think it is a good thing they stayed open as it puts undue pressure on staff to travel in difficult circumstances. Also parents drop the kids of not knowing if/how/when they will get back to pick them up, especially if both parents have set off for work. Putting even more pressure on staff who have to stay until they get there.

I would much rather keep my kids and myself safe in a nice warm home.

Goon - I was pointing out that in general support staff are forgotten.
Most people just think of teachers when it states school staff they forget the hard workers behind the scenes. A bit like hospitals where normally people think of just doctors and nurses.

Personally I don't think it is a good thing they stayed open as it puts undue pressure on staff to travel in difficult circumstances. Also parents drop the kids of not knowing if/how/when they will get back to pick them up, especially if both parents have set off for work. Putting even more pressure on staff who have to stay until they get there.

I would much rather keep my kids and myself safe in a nice warm home.

I bet your kids would rather be out sledging.

Goon - I was pointing out that in general support staff are forgotten.
Most people just think of teachers when it states school staff they forget the hard workers behind the scenes. A bit like hospitals where normally people think of just doctors and nurses.

Personally I don't think it is a good thing they stayed open as it puts undue pressure on staff to travel in difficult circumstances. Also parents drop the kids of not knowing if/how/when they will get back to pick them up, especially if both parents have set off for work. Putting even more pressure on staff who have to stay until they get there.

I would much rather keep my kids and myself safe in a nice warm home.

I see your point Linksys but like I said, I think most people realise that 'staff' means all staff at the school. After all, it's generally the 'behind the scenes' staff that keep a school running (I work in a school so I appreciate how much work goes into keeping a school running before teachers can actually do their job).
Good on the Head for staying open but if you have concerns then you always have the right to refuse to send your kids to school.

If you did decide to keep your kids at home then good for you. It's quite upsetting for some kids to be in school when they know that others are out enjoying the snow or sat in a nice warm home.

Have only just read the post about support staff and snow issues. I work as a teaching assistant and know that we are sometimes not regarded as important as the teachers.

Have only just read the post about support staff and snow issues. I don't work in a school as such but I work as a teaching assistant and know that we are sometimes not regarded as important as the teachers.

<snip>

I then had another horrible trek all the way home and to rub salt into the wound the teachers actually got paid for that day!!

Wow, it really sounds like you hate your job and / or work colleagues!

Of course the teachers got paid. Do you expect them to work for nothing. Volunteers are great and it is so sad that we have to rely upon them to support our services. But this helps to cut the cost. However. Nobody forces anyone to volunteer. Teachers are paid because this is their job. Any teacher as well as support staff that made it to school on these bad days all deserve praise.

Teaching assistants aren't voluntary workers as far as i know?

Just to put the record straight. I actually love my job and get on very well with all my colleaugues. I am also a highly qualified and experienced senior teaching assistant and not a volunteer as may have been assumed.

Just to put the record straight. I actually love my job and get on very well with all my colleaugues. I am also a highly qualified and experienced senior teaching assistant and not a volunteer as may have been assumed. Of course I expect teachers to get paid for doing their job and most of them are bloody good at it but when they are allowed to stay home when we have a bad snowfall, even though they live quite near to their place of work, is it right they should be paid to go sledging?

No it isn't..but did you get paid for the day even though you walked there and back, and how come your school doesn't have a phone tree ?

Yes I got paid for the day because I went in and did some work.

Just to put the record straight. I actually love my job and get on very well with all my colleaugues. I am also a highly qualified and experienced senior teaching assistant and not a volunteer as may have been assumed. Of course I expect teachers to get paid for doing their job and most of them are bloody good at it but when they are allowed to stay home when we have a bad snowfall, even though they live quite near to their place of work, is it right they should be paid to go sledging?

If the teachers decided to do their preparation at night when their partners were at home, as they also had their kids who were off school to entertain during the day, what's the problem?

Have only just read the post about support staff and snow issues. I don't work in a school as such but I work as a teaching assistant and know that we are sometimes not regarded as important as the teachers.
I walked seven miles to get to work in all that horrible snow we had before Christmas, it took me 3 and a half hours only to find that the teachers had been told it was a "snow day" and to work from home. How can you teach from home is what I want to know? I suppose they could do "preparation work" but I know for a fact that most of them regarded it as a day off and went sledging with their kids. I was the only member of staff to get into work and some of the teachers live less than 3 miles away!
I then had another horrible trek all the way home and to rub salt into the wound the teachers actually got paid for that day!!

Well there are other ways of teaching, there are sites that you can post work on specific to classes. If pupils cannot get into school because of bad weather then their teachers can set work for them, pupils just have to log in and do it.

Can I just end this thread by saying I have loads of respect for the hundreds of excellent teachers out there, but Head Teachers, please remember that there are also hundreds of excellent teaching assistants too and sometimes we would like to be acknowledged.

A simple "thanks" would have sufficed after my horrendous trek on that day, perhaps I wouldn't be feeling so miffed at having missed an unexpected "day off"...with pay!

I think that's what you want, recognition of your brave struggle against the elements and your fantastic commitment to your school.

Well done you :clap: :headbang: :banana:

x x x

How can you teach from home is what I want to know? I suppose they could do "preparation work" but I know for a fact that most of them regarded it as a day off and went sledging with their kids.

Most, if not all, schools have a VLE system which contains work. It does require a computer and internet access at home but these days that's pretty much a given.

I would have thought that even a level 2 TA would have known this? Level 3 would be expected to know how to use the system and HLTA would be expected to be able to set work on it.

Goon - I was pointing out that in general support staff are forgotten.
Most people just think of teachers when it states school staff they forget the hard workers behind the scenes. A bit like hospitals where normally people think of just doctors and nurses.

Personally I don't think it is a good thing they stayed open as it puts undue pressure on staff to travel in difficult circumstances. Also parents drop the kids of not knowing if/how/when they will get back to pick them up, especially if both parents have set off for work. Putting even more pressure on staff who have to stay until they get there.

I would much rather keep my kids and myself safe in a nice warm home.

Get real! First bit of bad weather and all you do is whinge!

Have only just read the post about support staff and snow issues. I don't work in a school as such but I work as a teaching assistant and know that we are sometimes not regarded as important as the teachers.
I walked seven miles to get to work in all that horrible snow we had before Christmas, it took me 3 and a half hours only to find that the teachers had been told it was a "snow day" and to work from home. How can you teach from home is what I want to know? I suppose they could do "preparation work" but I know for a fact that most of them regarded it as a day off and went sledging with their kids. I was the only member of staff to get into work and some of the teachers live less than 3 miles away!
I then had another horrible trek all the way home and to rub salt into the wound the teachers actually got paid for that day!!

Theres a lot of teaching assistants out there,who actually think they are teachers.

Theres a lot of teaching assistants out there,who actually think they are teachers.

There's a lot of teaching assistants out there doing teachers jobs day in and day out because the school can't/won't employ temporary teachers to cover absence and staff shortages.

There are some TA's who think they are teachers but most of us are proud to be TA's and would not wish to become teachers.

There's a lot of teaching assistants out there doing teachers jobs day in and day out because the school can't/won't employ temporary teachers to cover absence and staff shortages.

That's the councils problem.Not the teachers.

That's the councils problem.Not the teachers.

Its more the childrens problem who are being 'taught' by staff that are not qualified to teach but to support and supply teachers problem who now can't get work as schools are taking the cheaper option of inadequate cover :S

I couldn't agree more. There are many really good T.A's out there and the council knows it, that's why they are using them as teachers for half the cost. It's not right is it?

Yes it is wrong, some schools will pay a cover manager £14k a year rather than pay for supply teachers to teach their subject.

I think the problem is some T.A's have actually shot themselves in the foot by being so good at their jobs. The Heads/schools/council or whatever know they won't refuse to "teach" the children because it's the children who would be losing out. There are many T.A's who are more than capable of planning and delivering lessons especially in the Primary sector and it's because of this that the schools know they're onto a good thing....a good "teacher" but only costing them half the salary...who's to blame in the long run...the T'A's for being too good at their job or the school trying to save as much money as they can?
I know T.A's aren't qualified to teach but many of them do it as part of their everyday role...it's not right but it happens in many schools these days.

I couldn't agree more. There are many really good T.A's out there and the council knows it, that's why they are using them as teachers for half the cost. It's not right is it?

They may be good TAs but they are NOT teachers, and as a parent, I find it totally unacceptable that anyone but a qualified teacher is teaching my children. Our children deserve better than this.

TA's are not doing themselves any favours here though are they - a teachers starting salary of nearly £20K compared to a TA salary of around £15K (but pro rataed down for 39 weeks instead of the 52) means that a teacher should have more responsibilities.

Yes it is wrong, some schools will pay a cover manager £14k a year rather than pay for supply teachers to teach their subject.

£14k pro rata term time. I'd be interested to know what that breaks down to a day. The qualified supply teacher rate is about £120 a day.

Some TAs are more capable when it comes to teaching than some of the actual teachers.

Starting salarys for teachers is 20k, yet TAs get around 10k, thats because they are pro rata'd down to 38 weeks a year.

The school witch our sprogs go to has a brilliant TA - shame her salary doesn't reflect her ability.

As some people say, some TAs shoot themselves in the foot by taking on a role of a teacher

£14k pro rata term time. I'd be interested to know what that breaks down to a day. The qualified supply teacher rate is about £120 a day.

Pro rata to 70%

14k x 75% = £10500 a year

£10500 devide 52 = £201 a week

£201 devide by 5 days = £40 a day.

Don't forget the TAs pay tax on £40, so 20% of this = £8

£40 (gross) - £8 (tax) = £32 (gross)

£32 a day - that is what TAs are paid

£14k pro rata term time. I'd be interested to know what that breaks down to a day. The qualified supply teacher rate is about £120 a day.

Depends on the agency though doesn't it, I think some pay up to £150 and that was over 3 years ago.

As a supply TA you get paid around £7.80 an hour.

They may be good TAs but they are NOT teachers, and as a parent, I find it totally unacceptable that anyone but a qualified teacher is teaching my children. Our children deserve better than this.

Then I'm sorry you're so small-minded. Our school has excellent TA's who I see every day teaching children in small groups which the teachers don't have time to do. They're patient, kind and encouraging and the children thrive under their tuition.

Then I'm sorry you're so small-minded. Our school has excellent TA's who I see every day teaching children in small groups which the teachers don't have time to do. They're patient, kind and encouraging and the children thrive under their tuition.

This is exactly what a good TA would do. I think that the problem is when they are expected to take whole classes to cover for teachers absences :)

Going back to the original OP. Your right there was no thank you for support staff, cleaning staff etc and I do think it is wrong to only think that the school has teaching staff. Yes the teachers do their jobs, but the support staff also help to make the school open and without the all of the staff pulling together it wouldn't happen. Headteachers should be setting an example and showing that they respect all the workers, no matter what they do and that they don't look down on what they consider to be the "lowly" workers.

One of the schools trumpting that they stayed open, did eventually close. I thought it was a bit wrong though that they told teachers and other support staff to stay away, but the cleaners and caretaker were told they had to go in. :confused:

I think we have to differentiate between TAs and cover teachers / cover supervisors.

The TAs do sterling work in assisting those in a class who are struggling or the odd attention seekers.

Then I'm sorry you're so small-minded. Our school has excellent TA's who I see every day teaching children in small groups which the teachers don't have time to do. They're patient, kind and encouraging and the children thrive under their tuition.

Small-minded?:hihi:

What you describe here is appropriate use of a teaching assistant, re-inforcing teaching done by a teacher, by taking small groups and working with them. Teaching classes should only be done by a qualified teacher, TAs should assist.

This is exactly what a good TA would do. I think that the problem is when they are expected to take whole classes to cover for teachers absences :)

Correct. But not just teacher absences. The school where my children attend actually use TAs to take classes in the teacher's PPA time. This is a scheduled time each week - more than 10% of total teaching time! - that the school has scheduled for PPA time and yet they have a TA taking the class. This is totally unacceptable, in my opinion, children deserve better. I want my children to be taught by qualified teachers! If I take them to the Drs I don't expect someone not qualified as a Dr to be seeing them. If I take them to the Dentist, I don't expect the Dental Nurse to be doing the check-up! It's disgusting.

I'd be interested to see what they did if there was an OFSTED visit planned.

Maybe a tip off to them would be worth doing?

I can understand why Darth Vader finds it unacceptable for his children to be taught by an unqualified person, it's a bit like being operated on by an unqualified surgeon but let me assure him, and everyone else who feels the same about TA's teaching children ,that in my experience (33 years as a TA) I know there are many excellent teachers who do a fantastic job, but I also know there are some not so good ones and these are often secondary trained teachers who have been "forced into" the Primary sector for whatever reasons and they are well out of their comfort zone. Some TA's have far more experience of teaching KS 1&2 than these teachers so would you rather your offspring be taught by someone who actually knows what they're doing or someone who only thinks they know what they're doing??? If your child was struggling with their reading or maths, would you rather they be taught in a small group where they will receive almost 1:1 attention from the TA or continue to struggle in a class of 30+ because you only want them to be taught by a qualified teacher?

I can understand why Darth Vader finds it unacceptable for his children to be taught by an unqualified person, it's a bit like being operated on by an unqualified surgeon but let me assure him, and everyone else who feels the same about TA's teaching children ,that in my experience (33 years as a TA) I know there are many excellent teachers who do a fantastic job, but I also know there are some not so good ones and these are often secondary trained teachers who have been "forced into" the Primary sector for whatever reasons and they are well out of their comfort zone. Some TA's have far more experience of teaching KS 1&2 than these teachers so would you rather your offspring be taught by someone who actually knows what they're doing or someone who only thinks they know what they're doing??? If your child was struggling with their reading or maths, would you rather they be taught in a small group where they will receive almost 1:1 attention from the TA or continue to struggle in a class of 30+ because you only want them to be taught by a qualified teacher?

I don't think anyone is denying that one to one or small group work is what teaching assistants should be doing (under the guidance of the teacher in charge). People seem to be more concerned that TA's are used to 'teach' whole class groups to cover for PPA (which most definitely should not happen unless the TA is a HLTA and probably not really then according to the working conditions).

I absolutely agree that it's not fair to expect a TA to teach whole classes but unfortunately it happens...all too often and many times not by an HLTA. If the teachers are there to teach why are they being given time for prep work, surely they should be doing that at home or in directed time...not during the hours they are paid to be teaching!

Then I'm sorry you're so small-minded. Our school has excellent TA's who I see every day teaching children in small groups which the teachers don't have time to do. They're patient, kind and encouraging and the children thrive under their tuition.

Read an intersting article a while back. The kids who get taken away in a small group with a TA don't tend to make much progress. Many reasons why - the TA is not a teacher and because they are taken out so much they see the TA more than the teacher. The attention thing backfires because they are unable to work in class without an adult nearby to prompt them.

When I was at school the only TA I had was in reception. In classes we got on with our work independently without someone prompting or checking on us. The teacher told us what to do, we did it, the teacher checked it. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

I absolutely agree that it's not fair to expect a TA to teach whole classes but unfortunately it happens...all too often and many times not by an HLTA. If the teachers are there to teach why are they being given time for prep work, surely they should be doing that at home or in directed time...not during the hours they are paid to be teaching!

:-o you obviously don't know how much time that they need to spend planning, preparing and assessing a whole classes worth of work just for 1 week. The half day that they are given just is not anywhere enough time to do this properly. I have tried both teaching and TA'ing and I know that you just cant have much of a life outside of school when you are teaching (even with the PPA time). You seem to have a pretty poor view of some of your teaching colleagues which is a real shame:(

You're right, I really don't appreciate how much planning is required when working in schools these days . I still work for the Education Dept but haven't worked in a mainstreanm school since 1993 but I do have great respect for all my teaching colleagues as I do for most teachers and I'm sorry if you interpreted it in the wrong way. I'm just trying to reiterate the point that teachers should be teaching and TA's although capable of teaching should not be used by the schools as replacement teachers just because they are cheaper. Perhaps the Gmt. should consider lengthening the working day for teachers with an appropriate and justified rise in salary in order for them to teach when the children are at school and prep when they are not?
When I first started working in schools, the teachers didn't get PPA time, they did all their lesson planning in their own time and the TA's were in the classroom supporting the teacher but not actively teaching, things have really changed over the past few years. Have they changed for the better I wonder? Perhaps the classes were smaller then or the teachers were allowed to teach in their own way without being told what and how to teach by the Gmt.

I can understand why Darth Vader finds it unacceptable for his children to be taught by an unqualified person, it's a bit like being operated on by an unqualified surgeon but let me assure him, and everyone else who feels the same about TA's teaching children ,that in my experience (33 years as a TA) I know there are many excellent teachers who do a fantastic job, but I also know there are some not so good ones and these are often secondary trained teachers who have been "forced into" the Primary sector for whatever reasons and they are well out of their comfort zone. Some TA's have far more experience of teaching KS 1&2 than these teachers so would you rather your offspring be taught by someone who actually knows what they're doing or someone who only thinks they know what they're doing??? If your child was struggling with their reading or maths, would you rather they be taught in a small group where they will receive almost 1:1 attention from the TA or continue to struggle in a class of 30+ because you only want them to be taught by a qualified teacher?

I've already answered this question Moggie, previously.

The content of your posts serve to repeatedly highlight how out of touch with reality your perception is, I'm afraid.

I can understand why Darth Vader finds it unacceptable for his children to be taught by an unqualified person, it's a bit like being operated on by an unqualified surgeon but let me assure him, and everyone else who feels the same about TA's teaching children ,that in my experience (33 years as a TA) I know there are many excellent teachers who do a fantastic job, but I also know there are some not so good ones and these are often secondary trained teachers who have been "forced into" the Primary sector for whatever reasons and they are well out of their comfort zone. Some TA's have far more experience of teaching KS 1&2 than these teachers so would you rather your offspring be taught by someone who actually knows what they're doing or someone who only thinks they know what they're doing??? If your child was struggling with their reading or maths, would you rather they be taught in a small group where they will receive almost 1:1 attention from the TA or continue to struggle in a class of 30+ because you only want them to be taught by a qualified teacher?

Please can you provide a shred of evidence to support your statement that secondary trained teachers are being 'forced' in the Primary Sector? This is an absolutely ridiculous statement. The primary sector is oversubscribed and the secondary is under-subscribed, so who is forcing these secondary teachers to teach in primary?

As for the idea of my child being taught by a secondary teacher in primary school, I would love that idea. They are fully qualified and the government obviously thinks they have the qualifications and skills, they have even stopped offering conversion courses, as they don't feel it's necessary. I think secondary teachers can bring a lot to primary schools. So, the answer to this part of the question, is yes, I would much prefer them to be taught by a qualified teacher, especially a secondary-trained one.

Please can you provide a shred of evidence to support your statement that secondary trained teachers are being 'forced' in the Primary Sector? This is an absolutely ridiculous statement. The primary sector is oversubscribed and the secondary is under-subscribed, so who is forcing these secondary teachers to teach in primary?

This is something that I didn't quite understand either :)

Sounds like Moggie might be a little out of touch with teaching at the moment in mainstream schools to suggest that a teachers day could be extended - they don't go home when the kids do:S When I was training, most teachers were in before 8am and didn't leave until after 5pm - they also worked through lunch breaks, took work home to do in the evenings and didn't get weekends off. The reason why there are more TA's is because policies have meant that a teachers job is a lot more than standing at the front of a classroom talking to a few kids each day - there is so much paperwork to keep on top of from all the new initiatives, making sure each child reaches their target, making sure work is differentiated enough to make sure that those achieving at the lowest levels are catered for and those at the highest levels are stretched (at least 3 pieces of work to be prepared - sometimes more), marking etc. Things are not likely to get easier either once the new curriculum is announced and the teachers need more training... and probably more paperwork :( PPA for primary schools was brought in to make primary teachers have similar conditions to those of their secondary colleagues. Teachers and TA's are needed in modern schools and have their own individual roles and parts to play in children's education!

Yes, I am out of touch with mainstream, I have no intentions of denying that. The comments I have made are based on the situation that I currently work in, which is not a school setting. We have at times been short staffed in the area of primary teaching and some of the staff who have only ever taught secondary have had to step in and they have said themselves how different it is and they felt out of their depth, and have asked me to help them with setting work as they weren't sure which levels the children should be working at. We teach age 5 to 16 with all abilities and many problems so you are all correct in saying that I am out of touch with mainsteam and have been for a long time. I'm not making those comments as blanket statements, only what I sometimes see and hear from my own situation. The teachers I work with arrive at 8.30 and leave at 3.10. They obviously have a much shorter working day than those in mainstream and this is what I have based my comments on. I was unaware of the long hours teachers in mainstream put in. You deserve every penny you earn.
Really sorry if I have offended anyone.

WOW! Poor old Moggie!

I've only just joined Sheffield Forum and knew straight away that Moggie has been out of the school system for a very long time and has obviously lost touch with just how much work is involved with modern teaching.
In Moggie's defence, it's easy to misinterprete written conversations as there is no chance to immediately put right any misunderstandings brought about by lack of aural intonations and emphasis and she (I'm assuming Moggie is female?) has done her best to explain her comments. I too work in a non school setting and it is so easy to forget just how different things are and how quickly we get out of touch with reality.
What surprises me is that you were all quick to respond when criticising Moggie but no one has yet graciously accepted her apologies for the misunderstandings she incurred due to her not fully explaining her individual situation at her place of work.
It's not easy to admit when you're in the wrong but I think Moggie should be given some credit for doing just that.

That's really kind of you Swagbagsteve. I wasn't expecting anyone to respond to my apology as I think this thread has reached a natural end.
I'm sure if we were all sitting together in a cafe and having a conversation about schools and teachers, we would find that we're actually really nice people and not as vindictive and bitter as we sometimes come across on these forums.
There are thousands of excellent teachers out there and there are a few not so good ones, there are also some T.A's who need a lot of direction but there are some,myself included, who are educated to degree level but choose, for personal reasons, not to become teachers but what we all need to remember is that we are there to care, teach, nurture and encourage all our children to reach their full potential whatever their abilities, so does it really matter what our job title is?
I hope you all get through the rest of winter, let's hope there's no more snow to start this all up again, and look forward to a wonderful summer, especially those of us who get 6 long glorious weeks without having to think about planning, preparation, assessing or marking!
And for those of you who still have a sense of humour and who have seen that fantastic funny film "Nativity", remember this.....Those who can ...DO
Those who can't...TEACH
And those who can't teach...TEACH PRIMARY!!!

WOW! Poor old Moggie!

I've only just joined Sheffield Forum and knew straight away that Moggie has been out of the school system for a very long time and has obviously lost touch with just how much work is involved with modern teaching.
In Moggie's defence, it's easy to misinterprete written conversations as there is no chance to immediately put right any misunderstandings brought about by lack of aural intonations and emphasis and she (I'm assuming Moggie is female?) has done her best to explain her comments. I too work in a non school setting and it is so easy to forget just how different things are and how quickly we get out of touch with reality.
What surprises me is that you were all quick to respond when criticising Moggie but no one has yet graciously accepted her apologies for the misunderstandings she incurred due to her not fully explaining her individual situation at her place of work.
It's not easy to admit when you're in the wrong but I think Moggie should be given some credit for doing just that.

Hi Steve. Welcome to the forum.

I had read Moggie's apology and thought about posting as an 'acceptance' of her apology but I felt it just seemd to 'haughty' a thing to do and would just seem like rubbing her nose in it. I thought it was better to let Moggie have the last word on the thread.

Thanks Darth Vader, nice to be formally welcomed.
I think Moggie might have welcomed an acceptance even though she says she wasn't expecting any.
When things get a bit heated, it's nice to finish on a friendly note with no bitter aftertaste don't you think?

Thanks Darth Vader, nice to be formally welcomed.
I think Moggie might have welcomed an acceptance even though she says she wasn't expecting any.
When things get a bit heated, it's nice to finish on a friendly note with no bitter aftertaste don't you think?

I think you can only go with your own judgement in these cases really.