From www.bbc.co.uk

Bricks and bottles were thrown at police wearing riot gear
Police have begun a murder inquiry after violence in Birmingham in which a 23-year-old man was stabbed to death and 80 offences committed.

They said 35 people, including a police officer, were taken to hospital after clashes in Lozells on Saturday evening. Five people were arrested, said police.

At Sunday's news conference, detectives said they had found no evidence of an alleged rape that sparked the clashes.

Police also appealed for witnesses to hand in CCTV or mobile phone footage.

During the hour-long violence, a number of petrol bombs were thrown, and at least 12 gun shots were reported, police said.

It followed a week of mounting tension among the black and Asian communities in the Lozells area following the alleged sexual assault on a 14-year-old girl.

Police said there was "a lot of rumour, myth and speculation" about the rape allegation but no victim had come forward.

They appealed again for the girl, who is said to be Jamaican, to contact them.

On Saturday police had to intervene when uninvited people started forcing their way into the New Testament Church of God during a meeting about the allegations.

This began a small series of events in Lozells Road which the police dealt with.

At 1900 BST what was described as "a series of sporadic, serious extreme incidents" occurred in the area of Carlyle Road, including the fatal stabbing of a local man.

Those clashes lasted until about 2015 BST.

The injured police officer, who was shot in the leg, is in a stable condition.

Nine people remained in hospital on Sunday evening. People hurt in the violence had been treated for injuries including stabbing and gunshot wounds, broken bones and a fractured skull.

Det Supt Dave Mirfield said a post-mortem examination on the murdered man was taking place.

He appealed for anyone with CCTV or mobile phone images to come forward and said drinkers at two public houses, the Uplands and the Farcroft, had also been caught up in the incidents.

Police said rumours had started about a week ago about a serious sexual assault on retail premises in the Lozells area.

A member of the community has made a second allegation of sexual assault at a similar retail premises some months ago.

'Significant police presence'

Five men have been arrested, interviewed and released on bail in relation to that case.

A significant police presence will be seen on the streets of Lozells and Handsworth on Sunday night but officers are appealing for calm.

Supt Tom Coughlan, operations manager for Lozells, said: "The people of Birmingham have a real opportunity to prove they can live peacefully.

"I have been very reassured by conversations held today and yesterday with the community and I know they want to get over these problems."

Earlier, community representatives spoke of the need for everyone to work together to bring calm to the area.

Spokeswoman Justice Williams said both Asian and black communities had been victims of the violence.

"Obviously, people are scared. Innocent people have been hurt so of course people are scared."

Whats this got to do with Sheffield?. . . . surely it should be posted on the Birmingham Forum??:loopy:

Originally posted by Lestat
Whats this got to do with Sheffield?. . . . surely it should be posted on the Birmingham Forum??:loopy:

Er... this is the General Chit-Chat part of the forum isn't it?

During the hour-long violence, a number of petrol bombs were thrown, and at least 12 gun shots were reported, police said.



Supt Tom Coughlan, operations manager for Lozells, said: "The people of Birmingham have a real opportunity to prove they can live peacefully.

"I have been very reassured by conversations held today and yesterday with the community and I know they want to get over these problems."

Earlier, community representatives spoke of the need for everyone to work together to bring calm to the area.

should that read," please behave now,theres good boys and girls,you know we wont punish you if you give your selves up,well maybe just a teenzy weeny bit" what i saw on the news is that britain is in a state of anarchy,held to ransom by a bunch of thugs who are able to please themselves what they do,they have no respect for the law,ranks will close and the police will get no where as per usual,money will be spent on an inquiery with the end result that the youths need an identity,lets spend millions of pounds on youth clubs etc, yer, right !!

When the thread said 80's crimes I was thinking pencil width leather ties and chrome with black leather.

and Phil Collins.

Maybe just me?

Jokes aside a second night of racial harmony amongst our ethnic minorities in Britains second city. Multi-cultural Britain at its best, gang rapes, shootings, knife attacks, attacks on religious buildings....

Coming soon to a city near you...

Originally posted by Lestat
Whats this got to do with Sheffield?. . . . surely it should be posted on the Birmingham Forum??:loopy:

Wrong forum mate....this is general chit chat and with the recent immigration threads its relevant..unlike your comment.

Originally posted by Internetowl
Wrong forum mate....this is general chit chat and with the recent immigration threads its relevant..unlike your comment.

It is very much relevant. At the moment the alleged rape has never gone to the police so this is communities dealing with the matter within which is wrong.

The whole episode sends out the wrong message and gives ammunition to those who clearly state that integration isn't working and the fact that some groups use violence as a way of sending out a message.

Originally posted by Internetowl
Wrong forum mate....this is general chit chat and with the recent immigration threads its relevant..unlike your comment.

dont look at me, im irrelevent

Originally posted by melthebell
dont look at me, im irrelevent

have you got big hears and a large grey trunk?

Originally posted by kirky
have you got big hears and a large grey trunk?

its not size that matters you know :D

errrrm

Originally posted by Lestat
Whats this got to do with Sheffield?. . . . surely it should be posted on the Birmingham Forum??:loopy:

Hey man why don't you get off your pc cart and see the real world. And try losing the arrogant :loopy: .

youwhatref,
I know that you are a thoughtful poster, as is in evidence on my recent '2 Million Illegal Immigrants' thread, but I think your interpretation of the dreadful events is quite wrong. I say this with respect, and you are perfectly entitled to defend your position. You refer to this example of serious inter-ethnic conflict , which reflects the irremediable grudges between certain groups within the so-called 'multicultural melting pot', as 'sending out the wrong message' that 'integration isn't working'. I do not wish to get into debate about differences between the 'integrationist' and 'multicultural' models, but I have to say that, of course, incidents like this 'give ammunition' to those 'who state that integration isn't working'. Sceptics of the Burkean Tory stamp, such as myself, will tell you that incidents of non-white, inter-ethnic violence are quite common in various inner-city areas of the large English and Scottish cities. Recently, Darcus Howe [himself of Afro-Caribbean origin] has spoken in despairing terms about the frequent clashes between Afro-Caribbeans and Somalis in inner city London, and between Asians and Afro-Caribbeans in places such as Leicester and Birmingham.

Believe me, sir, we of the right have nearly half a century's worth of 'ammunition' which suggests that 'integration doesn't work'. Go to Blackburn, Bolton, Bury, Bradford etc [all former mill towns] and you will encounter a form of virtual apartheid in certain areas. Far from 'integration' and 'cultural cross-over', there is a simmering situation of near- ethnic warfare in these forsaken places. It would take but a couple of 'Islamikazi' bombings for a form of civil war to erupt in such enclaves.

Maybe after two nights of violence its time for the police to act and issue a curfew over the area. They are just running amok and without 'strong' action soon - the death toil will rise.

Originally posted by Internetowl
Maybe after two nights of violence its time for the police to act and issue a curfew over the area. They are just running amok and without 'strong' action soon - the death toil will rise.

well if violent criminals want to kill each other why not let them get on with it,i wouldn't lose any sleep over it

but normally the people who die are not actually willingly involved in it - the innocents are always the one's who suffer and the guilty drift away into the background.

With respect, Kirky, you would certainly 'lose sleep' if unfortunate enough to live nearby! If the situation escalates [and I am certain that several posters of the left/liberal persuasion imagine right wing Tories like myself to be dancing with joy at the prospect], as it did in the Toxteth riots of 1981, when petrol bombs and even acid were hurled at Police, the Army should be sent in to restore civil order. That is the true role of the state, not to intervene in a nannying way in peoples' lives, but to maintain defence and law and order. Is there a battalion of the Parachute Regiment available? Hopefully they are not all posted to remote, foreign enclaves. Send the gentlemen to Birmingham. I am certain that they will enjoy the chance to 'heal the situation', as progressive Bishops are wont to say, in a very real sense...

Originally posted by jonsastar
Hey man why don't you get off your pc cart and see the real world. And try losing the arrogant :loopy: .

Losing the arrogant!??. . . :rolleyes:

ok, since you put it in such a non-arrogant way, I'll obey you oh great master. I think you'll find I've seen the real world - the only thing that gets me is that Internetowl just keeps creating threads about the same topic over & over & over again.

It gets boring after abit - anything that concerns the ethnic or black population in Britain and Internetowl is there reporting it like theres no tommorrow. . . the problem isn't in reporting it - it's the way she tries to cause even more unrest, by the way she puts things.

Obviously a racist doing what racists do best. Creating tension through fear. . . . like the 'coming soon to a city near you' remark. :loopy: :gag:

Originally posted by Lestat

Obviously a racist doing what racists do best. Creating tension through fear. . . .

Isn't that exactly what's just happened in Birmingham?

Mod. Note

Please try and stay chilled here, folks.

And Lestat, InternetOwl is not a 'she', he's a he. And please don't start labelling people racists.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe,
On a humorous note, I used to think that Internetowl was a rather attractive woman, mistaking the hauntingly pretty female face on his former avatar for the poster 'herself'. I was surprised [and slightly disappointed] to find that 'the Owl' is in fact a man who ,it is alleged , resembles Rowan Atkinson!

Originally posted by timo
Joe,
On a humorous note, I used to think that Internetowl was a rather attractive woman, mistaking the hauntingly pretty female face on his former avatar for the poster 'herself'. I was surprised [and slightly disappointed] to find that 'the Owl' is in fact a man who ,it is alleged , resembles Rowan Atkinson!

Yup,

I seem to remember many moons ago I believed the 'owl to be a woman as well!

Contrary to popular belief, I do not resemble a large beaked penguin. Well, I don't THINK I do, anyway. :D

Joe

I do indeed I'm told....I always saw myself looking more like 'Alexis Sayle' - without his beard..

Lestat obviously doesn't get out from the top of the hill very often ....

Melthebell knows me - he can confirm I'm not female as could Mistyraven and Jon.

However if he wants (Lestat) wants a signed piccy I can oblige him.

:D

Originally posted by Internetowl
I do indeed I'm told....I always saw myself looking more like 'Alexis Sayle' - without his beard..
However if he wants (Lestat) wants a signed piccy I can oblige him.
:D

No thanks. . . I don't need any dart practice just yet - but will keep you updated :thumbsup: :hihi:

Lestat,
LOL. Thanks for making me laugh there re 'dart practice'! Very good.

Originally posted by Lestat
No thanks. . . I don't need any dart practice just yet - but will keep you updated :thumbsup: :hihi:

No worries, when you're ready:thumbsup:

Originally posted by timo
Joe,
On a humorous note, I used to think that Internetowl was a rather attractive woman, mistaking the hauntingly pretty female face on his former avatar for the poster 'herself'. I was surprised [and slightly disappointed] to find that 'the Owl' is in fact a man who ,it is alleged , resembles Rowan Atkinson!

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

sadly hes definitely not female :(
nor does he resemble rowan atkinson......well last time i saw him, about 15 years ago :P

I did notice (to get back on track) that the way the BBC news reported on it yesterday, appeared very one sided.
Predominantly interviewed were Asian buisiness people who were, as was no surprise, the only 'community' that seemed to be affected.

I was amused that any racial tension in this country, however its packaged, is always against the good old law abiding Asians.

Anyone else spot this?

Originally posted by timo
youwhatref,
I know that you are a thoughtful poster, as is in evidence on my recent '2 Million Illegal Immigrants' thread, but I think your interpretation of the dreadful events is quite wrong. I say this with respect, and you are perfectly entitled to defend your position. You refer to this example of serious inter-ethnic conflict , which reflects the irremediable grudges between certain groups within the so-called 'multicultural melting pot', as 'sending out the wrong message' that 'integration isn't working'. I do not wish to get into debate about differences between the 'integrationist' and 'multicultural' models, but I have to say that, of course, incidents like this 'give ammunition' to those 'who state that integration isn't working'. Sceptics of the Burkean Tory stamp, such as myself, will tell you that incidents of non-white, inter-ethnic violence are quite common in various inner-city areas of the large English and Scottish cities. Recently, Darcus Howe [himself of Afro-Caribbean origin] has spoken in despairing terms about the frequent clashes between Afro-Caribbeans and Somalis in inner city London, and between Asians and Afro-Caribbeans in places such as Leicester and Birmingham.

Believe me, sir, we of the right have nearly half a century's worth of 'ammunition' which suggests that 'integration doesn't work'. Go to Blackburn, Bolton, Bury, Bradford etc [all former mill towns] and you will encounter a form of virtual apartheid in certain areas. Far from 'integration' and 'cultural cross-over', there is a simmering situation of near- ethnic warfare in these forsaken places. It would take but a couple of 'Islamikazi' bombings for a form of civil war to erupt in such enclaves.

timo, i agree with much of what you say. I agree and have seen and witnessed conflict between both sides. I remember an episode of violence that i witnessed many years ago as blacks and asians fought and the high-level of racism between them. I was truly gobsmacked at the time beleiving back then that the racism word was only targeted at whites. So conflict does exist and has done so for many years as you so rightly state.

I didn't go into too much detail (my fault) so you may have misintepreted what i was trying to get across, i am fully aware it has been going on foir many years and i dont think that this is the last we'll see of the inter-ethnic violenece. My sending out the wrong message is equally aimed more at how they are dealing with (not yet reported) crime. Those who seek retribution and revenge through violenece in large groups are going about things the wrong way and as a consequence in todays society it is sending out the wrong message! Thansk for the reply though timo.

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
I did notice (to get back on track) that the way the BBC news reported on it yesterday, appeared very one sided.
Predominantly interviewed were Asian buisiness people who were, as was no surprise, the only 'community' that seemed to be affected.

I was amused that any racial tension in this country, however its packaged, is always against the good old law abiding Asians.

Anyone else spot this?

huh?

but if its only their shops being attacked then surely they should be shown?

and whos to say theres no black or white owned shops in the area? there might not be any?

Sky had a interview with a young 'black' kid who suggested that the asians had taken over all the local shops and were trying to drive their 'afro caribbean' community out to make it a 'asian' community.

Backdoor Ethnic cleansing it sounds like. However in balance it did also show a bunch of 'black youths' mugging the Sky team's car driver.

Originally posted by Lestat
Losing the arrogant!??. . . :rolleyes:



Actually dude it was a poke at your use of the loopy smiley.

ie.. try losing the arrogant :loopy: smiley...:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Internetowl
Sky had a interview with a young 'black' kid who suggested that the asians had taken over all the local shops and were trying to drive their 'afro caribbean' community out to make it a 'asian' community.

Backdoor Ethnic cleansing it sounds like.

Now, I realise that most of your posts are a poor attempt at humour, rather than a serious attempt at debate, but how exactly does the Asian community running sucessful businesses amount to 'ethnic cleansing' of blacks?

Originally posted by Abdul
how exactly does the Asian community running sucessful businesses amount to 'ethnic cleansing' of blacks?

I was thinking exactly the same!? WTF!! . . .

As for Jonaster, I did the smiley to point out that the post I was talking about was a load of old tosh, if you think thats arrogance, then you've led a very sheltered life. :gag: :loopy: :suspect: :D :(

There has long been a lack of business acumen in the Afro-Caribbean community. The excuse of 'racism' [either from whites or from British Asians] will not suffice as an excuse any longer for the comparative lack of black businesses. If anything, the British Asian communities suffered greater overt racism and persecution in the seventies and eighties ['Paki bashing' etc] than the Afro-Caribbean community, who were generally perceived to be more likely to fight back ferociously if provoked. The situation that has arisen in Birmingham, whereby British Asian busineses predominate, is largely a result of 'white flight' due to perceived cultural clashes, and the work ethic of the Asian business communites. The Afro-Caribbean community have not demonstrated the same ability to create and sustain wealth, to adapt to life in the age of the free market.

The initial wave of Afro-Caribbean settlers [the age of Windrush] were often God-fearing, impeccably polite and imbued with a formidable work ethic, and a desire to contribute to the life of what they perceived to be 'the Motherland'. These were largely rural people. Later waves, predominantly from the squalor of Kingston, do not appear to have possessed the same values as their rural kith and kin. At any rate, the 'laid back' yet aggressive culture of Kingston appears to have taken over in many areas of Afro-Caribbean settlement in Britain. Together with a lack of a strong work ethic, and a hostility to outsiders, the communities are rife with drug-abuse, single-parenthood and crime. None of this can be blamed upon the British Asian communities in themselves, though irremediable grudges based upon cultural ignorance on both sides have developed between black and Asian peoples, as we have seen in Birmingham.

I feel sorry for both communities, but sorrier still for the white residents of the predominantly inner-city areas where such conflict is taking place. One cannot help but sympathise with those who wish that mass immigration had never happened. There was no social mandate for the multicultural tidal wave that hit British cities. Large-scale migrations of people inevitably cause problems, and the migrations of the late 50s, 60s and 70s have certainly contributed towards making Britain less happy, less secure and more like a version of Yugoslavia minus, as yet, the civil war.