I take my children to school over the other side of sheffield from where we live, and we are having a nightmare time with the older kids on the trams on the way home. Have rung stagecoach, and the school of the kids involved, following both calls up with letters.
Thing i cant understand is why these kids are so awful? They fight and swear, are very violent and aggressive, rude, and completely disregard other passengers and the conductors.......i wonder what these kids' parents would think if they knew how badly behaved their kids were?
Im a fairly tolerant person, and Im not scared by teenagers, on several ocasions i have asked them politely to tone it down, and usually they comply with my request. Unfortunatley one or two lads seem to think its hilarious to be rude, and just carry on.
Suppose i shall see what the outcome is with these letters.

btw, if your kids go to All Saints and catch the tram from manor top to town, your kids are on the whole an extremely well behaved bunch....noisy, but werent we all at that age! Some old uns seem to forget what mischief they got up to as youngsters! This tram journey in the morning is great - nice kids even when the tram is busy and packed to the rafters!

Anyone have any experience of this sort of thing?

sue :D

Originally posted by samsmum


btw, if your kids go to All Saints and catch the tram from manor top to town, your kids are on the whole an extremely well behaved bunch....noisy, but werent we all at that age! Some old uns seem to forget what mischief they got up to as youngsters! This tram journey in the morning is great - nice kids even when the tram is busy and packed to the rafters!

Anyone have any experience of this sort of thing?

sue :D

I'm on the tram with these kids every morning, yes definitely noisy but you're right they tend to behave themselves.

The only thing I'd say is I often see many of them sat down when there are older people standing - when I was at school (and before anyone pipes up with 'but times have changed', I'm only 20) we had to give up our seats on the bus to older people because we were travelling on concession and they were paying full fare. Does this still happen?

It did make me smile the other day though when the tram pulled up to the Granville Rd stop and all the kids piled off, as the ticket guy walked past I heard him mutter 'best stop of the day, this' :)

Originally posted by LisaO
I'm on the tram with these kids every morning, yes definitely noisy but you're right they tend to behave themselves.

The only thing I'd say is I often see many of them sat down when there are older people standing - when I was at school (and before anyone pipes up with 'but times have changed', I'm only 20) we had to give up our seats on the bus to older people because we were travelling on concession and they were paying full fare. Does this still happen?

It did make me smile the other day though when the tram pulled up to the Granville Rd stop and all the kids piled off, as the ticket guy walked past I heard him mutter 'best stop of the day, this' :)

I dont agree that kids should give their seats up for 'older' people. First come first serve I say, simple as. If these 'older' people want to guarantee themselves seats, then dont catch the tram at school run times :)

Originally posted by spyro2000
I dont agree that kids should give their seats up for 'older' people. First come first serve I say, simple as. If these 'older' people want to guarantee themselves seats, then dont catch the tram at school run times :)

indeedio! :thumbsup: theres more than enough places isnt there?!

Originally posted by spyro2000
I dont agree that kids should give their seats up for 'older' people. First come first serve I say, simple as. If these 'older' people want to guarantee themselves seats, then dont catch the tram at school run times :)

With people who have attitudes like you,that is why there is a lack of respect with today's youth and society

Originally posted by SheffBloke
With people who have attitudes like you,that is why there is a lack of respect with today's youth and society

Give me one good reason that school kids should give up their seat for someone that is older?

It depends what you mean by "older people". If you're talking about 70 year old men who walk with canes, then yeah I'd agree with you. However, if you're talking about teenagers giving up their seats for 40 year olds, then definitely not. :)

Originally posted by spyro2000
Give me one good reason that school kids should give up their seat for someone that is older?

I think it depends how much older, very old people should get a seat, but I woudln't expect a kid to give-up their seat for me.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Give me one good reason that school kids should give up their seat for someone that is older?

Because the older person could be disabled, I don't know about you but I would willingly give up my seat on a bus or tram if a disabled person needed it, even if it meant I had to stand for the remainder of the journey.. You see I'm courteous like that, unlike SOME people it would seem :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Rich
Because the older person could be disabled


So could the younger person. So whats your point :)

Originally posted by spyro2000
Give me one good reason that school kids should give up their seat for someone that is older?

I was brought up to respect my elders and always give up my seat on the bus to older people. It really annoys me when kids sit down while older people struggle. :mad:

It's just common curteousy. I bet some of you people don't hold doors open either do you.

When I was younger I got many bad looks from these so called older people when I was sitting down on a packed bus. Little known to them I had a disability. Just because someone doesnt look like they havent got a disabilty, doesnt mean they havent.

Originally posted by Rich
Because the older person could be disabled, I don't know about you but I would willingly give up my seat on a bus or tram if a disabled person needed it, even if it meant I had to stand for the remainder of the journey.. You see I'm courteous like that, unlike SOME people it would seem :rolleyes:

hang on, it works both ways really. obviously people with half a brain would get up up if the other person was disabled, also if they were proper old like a hundred or whatever.. isnt that common sense? :confused:

Originally posted by spyro2000
So could the younger person. So whats your point :)

Old people are often unsteady on their feet, so should not be made to stand up when a little common courtesy could mean they can sit down in comfort and not worry about whether they'll fall over and cause injury to themselves or others.

Just a little common courtesy that's all it takes... But sadly the youth of today don't seem to recognise this... :( :loopy:

Originally posted by Rich
Old people are often unsteady on their feet, so should not be made to stand up when a little common courtesy could mean they can sit down in comfort and not worry about whether they'll fall over and cause injury to themselves or others.

Just a little common courtesy that's all it takes... But sadly the youth of today don't seem to recognise this... :( :loopy:

You are right. I suppose it depends on what is meant by 'older'. As Ryan says, its common courtesy to give seats up to someone on their death bed, but not just to give seats up to 'older' people. I wouldnt give my seat up to someone who was 30, 40, 50 etc, unless like you say, I can clearly see they are not steady on their feet.

I agree with letting an elderly/infirm/disabled person or anyone carrying a small baby have my seat. I dont agree with anyone older than me having a right to my seat. I have after all paid to sit down on the bus/tram/train and not to strap hang for my 40 minute journey. Perhaps more buses and trams should be put on these routes at busy times and only allowed to fill to seated capacity? that way everyone is happy, no-one has to give up a seat and if you cant get on you know there'll be another bus along in a matter of minutes...worked well in Liverpool on the routes where we all lived as students and preventing any student vs "locals" aggro.

maybe we should all compare birthdays when we get on, that way if i'm a day older I can demand my seat!

Stop, don't post that flame, it was a joke.

I think the confusion is arising because some people are saying older when they really mean old.

I'm older than school kids, but perfectly capable of standing on the tram because i'm not old.

Originally posted by Cyclone
i'm not old.


Thats debatable :rolleyes:

I wouldn't expect a teenager to give up their seat to anyone apart from those who obviously need it (elderly, pregnant, disabled). In fact I'd expect anyone to give up a seat to people in those 'categories'. But I do get very annoyed when I see small children unnecessarily taking up seats on crowded buses when anyone adult is standing. Usually their parents are polite enough to take the child onto their knee or if they are older, even ask them to stand and allow the adults (or teenagers in some cases) to sit.

But sometimes you see parents who don't do these things. Invariably their kids are the brats bouncing up and down on seats like they are trampolines, shrieking like banshees. :rant:

I agree that seats should be given to elderly, pregnant or disabled passengers.

I wouldn't however expect a two or three year old child to stand on the bus as they are still very unsteady at that age.

Originally posted by scoop
I agree that seats should be given to elderly, pregnant or disabled passengers.

I wouldn't however expect a two or three year old child to stand on the bus as they are still very unsteady at that age.

And neither would I....

Originally posted by joeyannie
I agree with letting an elderly/infirm/disabled person or anyone carrying a small baby have my seat. I dont agree with anyone older than me having a right to my seat. I have after all paid to sit down on the bus/tram/train and not to strap hang for my 40 minute journey. Perhaps more buses and trams should be put on these routes at busy times and only allowed to fill to seated capacity? that way everyone is happy, no-one has to give up a seat and if you cant get on you know there'll be another bus along in a matter of minutes...worked well in Liverpool on the routes where we all lived as students and preventing any student vs "locals" aggro.

I need to correct your assumption, Joeyannie.

As with trains, you pay your fare to be transported by the carriage company, (be it bus, tram, or train) you dont pay for the seat in particular, unless it's reserved.

The company only undertakes to transport you, they do not guarantee you a seat.

you haven't paid to sit down rather than strap-hang. you have paid to get from a-b.

Indeed, I (and my partner) have paid for first-class tickets on trains, on a number of occasions, and actually not been able to obtain seats/wheelchair spaces on the trains concerned.

PT

I am casting my mind forwards in time now, say 50 years or so to 2055.

Scene: One of today's bone idle yobs survives his numerous ASBOs, detentions at Her/His Majesty's pleasure, run-ins with the Benefits Agency, and reaches the ripe old age of 75.

He is standing on the bus, no spare seats, he's on his way home from selling knocked of goods on Fargate, his 5th pint of White Lightening is kicking in and he's paid 40p fair (no price rises!)

A 12 year old kid has just done 7 hours hard work at school and an extra hour football training because he wants to get on in life, and paid 40p fair as well. Poor kid's knackered.

Kid gives up his seat to the 75 year old 'waster' because "we should respect our elders", and everyone on the bus was looking at him as though he is filth :loopy:

I think the way some adults treat teenagers they deserve a bit of lip!

My daughter, 13, catches the tram to All Saints and one particular morning, as the tram was full, the conductor never came to her part of the tram for her to buy her ticket.

She was on her own and as she got off the tram at Granville Road the Inspector got on. He barred her way off the tram saying 'ticket'. She tried to explain that the conductor hadn't come to her end of the tram during the journey and he shouted at her that the next time she tried to ride for free he'd fine her £10.
She's a very quiet kid and was mortified at his treatment of her.
If she'd been with me he would never have spoken to her like that. That is just as rude and ignorant as teenagers cheeking 'their elders' in my opinion.

There are many other examples where kids (usually ones of their own - less of a threat) are picked on by adults and it really drives me nuts.

As for old people, some of them are just plain rude too.
Many a time I've been nearly knocked off my feet trying to get myself and the baby's buggy on the tram by some old sod determined to get a seat. Now having the buggy with me I always stand up so won't be having a seat anyway.
The same problem on the bus, if I get on with the buggy there's loads of muttering by oldies if they have to vacate the seats in the allocated buggy area. Some blatantly tell me off!!

There are rude and discourteous people of all ages out there really.

i no wot sue means bout ppl bein rude (i cnt say kids cuz im only16myself)but since leavin skool and havin2catch the bus everyday and then the tram they r really anoyin i was at the tram stop the other week and1really anoyin kid was askin the person he was wit2read1of her text msgs and wudnt giv in and wit the tram stop bein really full and this kid bein rite behind me he kept runnin in2me and dint even say sorry and i mean he was11so old enough2hav manners and say sorry.:mad:

Originally posted by karenjane39
I think the way some adults treat teenagers they deserve a bit of lip!

My daughter, 13, catches the tram to All Saints and one particular morning, as the tram was full, the conductor never came to her part of the tram for her to buy her ticket.

She was on her own and as she got off the tram at Granville Road the Inspector got on. He barred her way off the tram saying 'ticket'. She tried to explain that the conductor hadn't come to her end of the tram during the journey and he shouted at her that the next time she tried to ride for free he'd fine her £10.
She's a very quiet kid and was mortified at his treatment of her.
If she'd been with me he would never have spoken to her like that. That is just as rude and ignorant as teenagers cheeking 'their elders' in my opinion.

There are many other examples where kids (usually ones of their own - less of a threat) are picked on by adults and it really drives me nuts.

As for old people, some of them are just plain rude too.
Many a time I've been nearly knocked off my feet trying to get myself and the baby's buggy on the tram by some old sod determined to get a seat. Now having the buggy with me I always stand up so won't be having a seat anyway.
The same problem on the bus, if I get on with the buggy there's loads of muttering by oldies if they have to vacate the seats in the allocated buggy area. Some blatantly tell me off!!

There are rude and discourteous people of all ages out there really.

Ugh, I've been on the tram loads when it's been full, and the conductors don't come to you till you're about 2 stops short of getting off, once I was on the tram with a mate in Town and the conductor didn't come to us till we were actually getting off at the bottom of Leopold St (City Hall stop), I explained that we were about to disembark, and the conductor let me off (40p bus pass, hardly worth it) but charged the guy who was with me full fare :D

WTF?! I mean yeah mate thanks for letting me off and all that but one rule for one and another for others just ain't right IMO, I would willingly have paid the 35p fare for the journey, it was his fault for not coming to me before I was getting off :loopy:

Originally posted by karenjane39
The same problem on the bus, if I get on with the buggy there's loads of muttering by oldies if they have to vacate the seats in the allocated buggy area. Some blatantly tell me off!!

There are rude and discourteous people of all ages out there really.

That's not an area for buggies, it's for wheelchairs. But people with buggies are allowed to use the area if no wheelchair users want to use it. To be fair, it does look like it's just for buggies, and I've yet to see any wheelchair user get on when the space is filled with pushchairs. I dread to think what would happen if this situation did occur.

There's one thing that annoys me most of all on buses/trains and that's when people put their belongings on a seat and won't move them to allow you to sit down.

The one group of people I've had no trouble with on transport is teenagers, who are normally polite enough, even if they do get rowdy sometimes. ;)

Err then why does it have a picture of A WOMAN WITH A PUSHCHAIR??

I think you'll find I'm right.

I was referring to the buggy area on buses, I know there is no designated area for buggies on trams.

Originally posted by samsmum
I take my children to school over the other side of sheffield from where we live, and we are having a nightmare time with the older kids on the trams on the way home. Have rung stagecoach, and the school of the kids involved, following both calls up with letters.
Thing i cant understand is why these kids are so awful? They fight and swear, are very violent and aggressive, rude, and completely disregard other passengers and the conductors.......i wonder what these kids' parents would think if they knew how badly behaved their kids were?
Im a fairly tolerant person, and Im not scared by teenagers, on several ocasions i have asked them politely to tone it down, and usually they comply with my request. Unfortunatley one or two lads seem to think its hilarious to be rude, and just carry on.
Suppose i shall see what the outcome is with these letters.

btw, if your kids go to All Saints and catch the tram from manor top to town, your kids are on the whole an extremely well behaved bunch....noisy, but werent we all at that age! Some old uns seem to forget what mischief they got up to as youngsters! This tram journey in the morning is great - nice kids even when the tram is busy and packed to the rafters!

Anyone have any experience of this sort of thing?

sue :D

The behaviour of these kids is just one of the daily hassles that bus drivers have to put up with ... there are many more. This sort of public service job is difficult and I wouldnt like to do it. It always surprises me the amount of postings on here knocking public service workers such as bus drivers and postmen. Think very very hard if you would do the job they do, day in day out, for the money they earn, putting up with daily abuse, people who misuse the system (eg fare dodgers) and risk of assault. I wouldnt. would you?

Originally posted by scoop
I agree that seats should be given to elderly, pregnant or disabled passengers.

I wouldn't however expect a two or three year old child to stand on the bus as they are still very unsteady at that age.

Well I am glad some people still think that way. I too was brought up to give up my seat to the elderly, disabled or pregnant.
I am 7 months pregnant and the last person who tried to give me their seat was a woman who looked slightly less pregnant than me.

People have barged into me and pushed past me and I have to say that students and school kids are particularly bad on Eccy road. They don't catch my eye and so I stand there trying to protect my bump while they all chat to each other! Travelling on public transport has been linked to miscarriage and premature labour - it worries me. i am actually finishing work earlier than I want to becuase the commute stress me out so much

Originally posted by karenjane39
Err then why does it have a picture of A WOMAN WITH A PUSHCHAIR??

I think you'll find I'm right.

They also have a sign laying down the law about the area being priority for wheelchair users. Fair do's though, you might use a different bus with different signs on. I'll check mine tomorrow to see what it says again - and If I was mistaken then :thumbsup: to you.

I don't use the tram that much, but if busy, would give my seat up to someone whom I believed needed it more than me.

Going back to the original post, a young girl i know who's 16, said she felt awful being a young person as they al get categorised the same. I asked what she meant and said she was on the tram and gave up her seat to which the reply was "Oooh, they don't normally do that do they." I understand what she means that some young people are thoughtful. To be fair, the other night on the tram a group of young people were chattering away about nothing - quite loud, and when they got off the guy opposite was like "thank goodness for that." THey are young - they talk loud - they laugh - they swear, not that the tram/bus is always appropraite, but as already said, consider when you travel if it concerns you that much, but don't tar them all withthe same brush. Please.

Wow a thread sure moves on over the space of a day!

When I said 'older' in my original post, I wasn't just talking about elderly people. Yes common courtesy dictates (well, I would hope so) that you give your seat up for an elderly/disabled/pregnant person but the issue when I was at school was entirely removed from that - basically, as school kids we were travelling for free (this is in Australia, I think kids over here still have to pay?) so those paying full fare, whether 80 or 18, were more entitled to a comfortable journey.

The 'giving seats up' thing I do find amusing at times - coming home yesterday when loads of people piled off at the station, 3 seats nearby to where I was standing were vacated and even though there was a crowd of us standing no-one moved to take the seats, as if they didn't want to 'offend' anyone, lol :)

Originally posted by LisaO
The 'giving seats up' thing I do find amusing at times - coming home yesterday when loads of people piled off at the station, 3 seats nearby to where I was standing were vacated and even though there was a crowd of us standing no-one moved to take the seats, as if they didn't want to 'offend' anyone, lol :)

That happened to me when my Train pulled into Darlington last night.

I bolted down the train to a seat though, I wasn't standing all the way from Newcastle!

Originally posted by speenie
I don't use the tram that much, but if busy, would give my seat up to someone whom I believed needed it more than me.

Going back to the original post, a young girl i know who's 16, said she felt awful being a young person as they al get categorised the same. I asked what she meant and said she was on the tram and gave up her seat to which the reply was "Oooh, they don't normally do that do they." I understand what she means that some young people are thoughtful. To be fair, the other night on the tram a group of young people were chattering away about nothing - quite loud, and when they got off the guy opposite was like "thank goodness for that." THey are young - they talk loud - they laugh - they swear, not that the tram/bus is always appropraite, but as already said, consider when you travel if it concerns you that much, but don't tar them all withthe same brush. Please.

hi speenie,
i have often tutted at people for generalising about the youngsters on the tram - some people conveniently forget that they were young once, and im sure as kids we all made a similar amount of noise - i have on several occasions pointed this out to other passengers who have made that comment!
My original post was about the myers grove minority who terrorise people on the home time tram. twice last week the tram had to stop while the little swines were chucked off! And one brat nearly got my boot in his mouth when he made one of my 4 year olds cry - when i politely challenged him, he told me to f### off.
nice.

LisaO - I always get my kids to squash together if we are sat down and it gets busy - i dont like them standing as they arent too steady, but if someone got on who needed to be seated then of course i would move them.
several months ago on the 51, we all squashed together into 1 seat so several passengers could sit down. when no one did, i very loudly pointed out the empty seats, but was met with blank stares and no one moved! when the bus driver asked everyone to move down the bus (now thats a novelty...!) i called back that there were several empty seats but no one could be bothered to sit down.
he laughed and said 'typical love!'

Originally posted by samsmum

LisaO - I always get my kids to squash together if we are sat down and it gets busy - i dont like them standing as they arent too steady, but if someone got on who needed to be seated then of course i would move them.


But that's perfectly understandable, it sounds like you have younger kids and so at that age a shaky bus/tram journey probably is a bit much for them.

I'm talking more about 10-12 year olds. I used to nanny for an 8 yr old and 10 yr old, my goodness I had enough trouble getting them to sit down at all, let alone for a whole bus journey! Yes if you were on that bus with those kids, they definitely weren't taking up seats, lol.

Originally posted by Daley
It depends what you mean by "older people". If you're talking about 70 year old men who walk with canes, then yeah I'd agree with you. However, if you're talking about teenagers giving up their seats for 40 year olds, then definitely not. :)

I agree to an extent with that.

If someone is struggling with a lot of shopping or something, or have a small child I'll give up my seat for them.

The day will dawn when someone stands up and offers you a seat and you think....crikey, do I look THAT old??!! :gag:

I once stood up for a toddler on a bus because it's mother was loaded down with shopping and her nipper was hanging on for dear life, whilst standing in the aisle next to the mum. The mother was very grateful - even though she at first refused the offer - and didn't stop thanking me for ages.

An old biddy, face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, got on a few stops later, and stood staring at the toddler as if the kid was some sort of plague. She loudly asked the entire bus 'What was the world coming to?' The cheeky mare then asked the toddler to get up so she could sit down (no please or thank you). I was flabbergasted to hear her say - as she plonked her fat arse in the vacated seat - "Bloody kids know no respect these days." The mother was speechless!! I bit my tongue, and offered my services in holding onto the nipper for her.

This ignorant old cow honestly thought that a toddler of about 2 years old should stand for HER benefit, as though it was her duty.

Two stops later (that's right...2 stops) she got off, but not before she nearly knocked the kid's head of with her shopping bag. She looked down to see what she'd hit - obviously the kid's head - and never even apologised.

My age then? About 45.
The mother's age then? About 25.
The kid's age? About 2.
The most pig ignorant, selfish, thoughtless, arrogant person in this saga's age? About 65!!!!

Please explain to me, why kids, any kids, should offer 'blind' respect to people like this as though they are somehow superior. Being old isn't some kind of 'achievement', but being polite is. Some of these old uns seem to have a real problem with accepting that being old isn't a badge of 'greatness'.:rant:

A while ago I had an argument with a group of old fogies on the bus.

The luggage rack was empty, but they had a flat-packed budgie cage in boxes in the wheelchair/pram area, obstructing the access and egress on the bus.

They would not move it into the luggage rack, despite repeated polite requests, (nor would they move out of the way)and a young couple had to physically lift their baby's pram over the heads of the seated passengers so that I could get my wheelchair in the wheelchair space.

I made a pointed comment about the pram bay being for prams, and the luggage rack being for luggage.

The argument ensued. The old fogies were tutting, and one old bloke was saying "I'll ruddy well put my luggage where I ruddy well like!"

Then he proceeded to rant and rave about how these ruddy young'uns had no ruddy respect for old uns, and how ignorant we were for actually having the temerity to ask them to be reasonable, and let the prams in the pram space.

(she growls, softly)

So, I turned to the old bloke concerned, who was doing the majority of the "chewing" at us, and said:-
"Do you know WHY we young 'uns have no manners? It's cos we've learnt from the best! you!"

Oooh! For two pins, Id have swiped him with my wheelchair footrests... right at the back of his forehead... lol

PT