What a sad old wreck is Sheffield. No gritting, no support for stranded cars. Even major bus routes were a slippery mess. I wonder if the details of roads actually gritted (and what times) are in the public domain, and if not, why not. No gritting up towards the University roundabout, no apparent gritting along Fulwood road. The University roundabout was a disaster - even a single traffic policeman could havce helped to resolve this. Is there any sort of action plan here? Was this "snow" a surprise? Who is in charge here??

I have just returned from a trip to Berlin and Montreal - they would laugh their heads off.


Pete

How long have you lived in Sheffield? Everybody knows to avoid the Uni roundabout when there's the slighest hint of snow. All of South Yorkshire drivers who can't drive in snow head there, it's a tradition.:loopy:

Whover makes the decision whether to send the gritters out or not, is on a hiding to nothing.

If the promised snow-fall doesn't come, everyone has a go because of all that wasted time and money.

On the other hand, If we get an unexpected snowfall, everyone is up in arms because the roads haven't been gritted.

I agree that the winter management is not good. The snow was not unexpected. Failure to grit minor roads is fine, but failure to grit main routes is not. And I agree, a bit of traffic direction would not be inappropriate. What alternative is there but to go via the University Roundabout for example - because the other roads are not griited. Take a look at any other big European city before rolling out the excuses for our local management.

:thumbsup: All the roads near me were gritted they did a fine job.

Originally posted by Carynne
What alternative is there but to go via the University Roundabout for example - because the other roads are not griited.

Off the Parkway at The Manor Top turn off, down Maltravers turn left, Bernard Street, Talbot Street, Shrewsbury Road, Queens Road to London Road through Nether Edge, across Hunters Bar, through Broomhill up over Crookes, et voila!

Originally posted by max
Off the Parkway at The Manor Top turn off, down Maltravers turn left, Bernard Street, Talbot Street, Shrewsbury Road, Queens Road to London Road through Nether Edge, across Hunters Bar, through Broomhill up over Crookes, et voila!

At 4pm the roads through crookes up from infirmary road were completely impassable and certainly no gritting here. You talking about today??

It was raining an hour before it started to snow heavy and some of the salt will have got washed away.

When that happens, there isn't much you can do.

Beside, even if they managed to cover all the main roads and did a "perfect" job, the snow will win if it comes down heavy enough.

Originally posted by Jon
:thumbsup: All the roads near me were gritted they did a fine job.
Ah, so that's why they ran out of grit for all the important places! :P

I don't get why people complain. It's a great excuse for a day off work.

Originally posted by Geoff
Ah, so that's why they ran out of grit for all the important places! :P :thumbsup: Well i do live near a school so i guess they have to be done before owners of a forum :D

True, but if you ditch work cos of the weather, you don't get paid.

Originally posted by Jon
:thumbsup: Well i do live near a school...
But children can't even drive, so I don't understand that?! :loopy:

Originally posted by Geoff
But children can't even drive, so I don't understand that?! :loopy: :D Live near a school Geoff the kids Drive you mad :P

Originally posted by Carynne
At 4pm the roads through crookes up from infirmary road were completely impassable and certainly no gritting here. You talking about today??

That's why I went the way I described, ending up going through Broomhill to avoid the climb up from Infirmary Road.:loopy:

It's not just the roads that weren't done, the city centre was iced over and I didn't once see streetforce come round with the grit.
I had to borrow a mop bucket and a dustpan from a cafe to collect grit from a grit bin because the council cant provide basic tools for us and I went around Surrey st and Norfolk st and started around the theaters out of my own goodwill!

All the management were botherd about was how they were going to get home:mad:

Hi

Gritting only works when they do it BEFORE snow falls so unless they do it right time they don't bother AFAIK

I posted this on another thread - may be of use to some peeps :

This link :

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/in-your...ter-maintenance

goes to the council page about wintry conditions and tells you how they decide where to grit [see link 'priority routes'] and also how to purchase some salt for personal use [they recommend you take some in your car on the 'winter driving' page]

They even refer to people helping themselves to grit from bins and helping out fellow Sheffielders in the process :thumbsup:

There were a couple of flakes of the white stuff, less than 10mm of snow, not 10 inches or several feet. Our city elders are answerable to a lot of businesses and commuters. The problem is that when thousands of people get stranded, no-one asks any questions. 1) who is the named person is who has responsibility for this, 2) exactly which roads were gritted and when, 3) what written policy there is about snow management 4) is there is any audit of procedures, and any attempt to learn from problems. I presume none of these things exist.

10 years back I tried to get some details about the lines of responsibility and whether gritting procedures were documented following an incident involving a wayward bus on an ungritted route. I hit a complete blank.

Originally posted by Carynne
There were a couple of flakes of the white stuff, less than 10mm of snow, not 10 inches or several feet. Our city elders are answerable to a lot of businesses and commuters. The problem is that when thousands of people get stranded, no-one asks any questions. 1) who is the named person is who has responsibility for this, 2) exactly which roads were gritted and when, 3) what written policy there is about snow management 4) is there is any audit of procedures, and any attempt to learn from problems. I presume none of these things exist.

10 years back I tried to get some details about the lines of responsibility and whether gritting procedures were documented following an incident involving a wayward bus on an ungritted route. I hit a complete blank.

All questions answered here, you just need to look.:D

Gritting policy (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/in-your-area/street-force/winter-maintenance)

Originally posted by max
All questions answered here, you just need to look.:D

Gritting policy (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/in-your-area/street-force/winter-maintenance)

Yes, nice words. But try to write to the council and ask which roads were actually gritted. Reality and words are poorly aligned.

Interestingly AFAIK, local councils have no legal responsibility for gritting roads at all - a poor reflection on the 4th (or 5th) richest country in the world. You only need to live in other countries for a bit to realise quite how poorly this is managed here.

Originally posted by Carynne
But try to write to the council and ask which roads were actually gritted.

I'd be interested to hear their reply. I assume you have written?

The main problem today as far as I could see was all the half baked idiots running for the door as soon as the snow fell, to leave work and clog the roads, so that they could 'beat the traffic jams' that would develop!

andyb

I have seen this scenario before about 10 years ago and the combinination of events goes like this.

1. Everybody knows that the snow is coming so all major routes are gritted.

2. It starts raining/ sleeting so all the salt is washed away.

3. It starts snowing mid-afternoon and the now un-salted roads are white over. Lots of people leave work early at the same time.

4. The skies clear, the temperature drops and the roads are already cold so everything freezes up solid.

5. This slows down all the traffic, the city grid locks, the gritters are caught in this grid lock so can't salt the roads.

This situation is completely unavoidable in this country so there isn't much point in moaning about it.

Other, colder countries get around this problem by everybody having smaller wheels, spiked tyres and under inflating their tyres. This is the only way to avoid todays problems and given the frequency of such events it just ain't going to happen in this country.

Remember, for the last five days we have been given warnings that you should only start a journey today if it was 'essential', perhaps we should admit someone knows what they are talking about even though we seem to largely ignore them.

Originally posted by Vanbast


Remember, for the last five days we have been given warnings that you should only start a journey today if it was 'essential', perhaps we should admit someone knows what they are talking about even though we seem to largely ignore them.

well i was a goody two shoes and walked the 1 mile to my kids school,mainly cos im a bit of a coward when comes to driving in snow. i passed two brass monkeys looking for a spot welder.had a good snowball fight with the kids which i lost.

but more to the point i had a chuckle to myself at those who just wont go anywhere without the car,slipping and sliding and playing dodgems with each other on what is a narrow road.

sure it was a bloody freezing walk,but my car isnt scraped or dented and doesnt have a wing mirror missing

Sorry Vanbast but what a complete load of rubbish.

If we know the snow is coming, why don't we CONTINUOUSLY keep the roads gritted especially after it rains!! And unless we get an absolute downpour, all the grit and salt is NOT washed off the roads.

As for colder climes than ours, I came back from the Austrian Alps about 3 weeks ago. They don't have smaller wheels (in fact the majority of cars were VWs, Audis, BMWs), they don't have spiked wheels (they might use snow chains ocassionally) and under no circumstances should you under-inflate your tyres. If you can find any site on safe driving in snow that recommends under-inflating your tyres, I'll apologise.

Originally posted by Saxon
Sorry Vanbast but what a complete load of rubbish.

If we know the snow is coming, why don't we CONTINUOUSLY keep the roads gritted especially after it rains!! And unless we get an absolute downpour, all the grit and salt is NOT washed off the roads.

As for colder climes than ours, I came back from the Austrian Alps about 3 weeks ago. They don't have smaller wheels (in fact the majority of cars were VWs, Audis, BMWs), they don't have spiked wheels (they might use snow chains ocassionally) and under no circumstances should you under-inflate your tyres. If you can find any site on safe driving in snow that recommends under-inflating your tyres, I'll apologise.

Actually some are fitted with studded tyres (so not rubbish),reducing tyre pressure can help if stuck in snow(so not rubbish) and we dont live in Austria.

Oh and the salt does get washed off the roads,as well as being carried away by vehicles using the road.

Wheres your info from, Tango?

And I know we don't live in Austria, but I seem to remember them having a lot of snow!!!

I have just read all the excuses and don't accept any of them.

They had plenty of warning about this weather, as it was the snow was extremely slight and the situation should have been easily manageable if we had a council prepared to manage.

The main roads were like skating rinks the traffic was completely undirected in fact it was a complete farce. Blaming people for leaving early or being unskilled at ice driving doesn't cut it! If people had confidence in the safety of the roads they wouldn't need to leave early and people shouldn't need to be skilled ice drivers if driving on main roads in a major European city.

While people continue to make excuses and 'reasons' why the council couldn't do better nothing will ever improve. Last night peoples lives were put at risk because Sheffield Council are completely incapable of doing what we pay them to do. I work in the city centre and live in Woodseats - major roads ALL the way and yet it took me 3 hours to get home - UNACCEPTABLE !

Had everyone not panicked at 3pm when it started snowing, the roads wouldn't have gridlocked so early, then the gritters could have got round and it wouldn't have been half as bad.
Frozen side roads force more people onto the main routes, so it's always going to get much more busy, but the fact that half the drivers out there have no idea how to drive in these conditions just makes it ten times worse. Add to that the idiots that block traffic lights and roundabouts instead of letting crossing traffic flow and gridlock is a dead cert.

20 minutes of snow and look what happened.

Driving on studded snow tyres. If studded tyres are installed on the front of any vehicle, they must also be installed on the rear.

The beginning of movement and acceleration of any vehicle in snow, ice and other adverse cold weather conditions is highly dependent on the traction qualities of the tyres on the driving axle. The controlled handling and braking of a vehicle after it is in motion in adverse weather conditions, however, is highly dependent on the traction of the rear tyres. Consequently, the rear tyres of any vehicle must have equal or higher traction capabilities than the front tyres for safe vehicle operation.

Because of the higher traction qualities of studded snow tyres under most winter weather conditions, installation of only two studded snow tyres on the front of any vehicle (especially front wheel drive vehicles) without two studded snow tyres on the rear can cause adverse (unsafe) handling characteristics. Consult tyre manufacturer for correct stud size. If you sell and/or install studded snow tyres on vehicles you must follow the procedures listed below:


Only new tyres should be fitted with studs. Never insert studs in a used tyre (even if only slightly used).
Without studded snow tyres on the rear, which have the same traction qualities as the studded front tyres, adverse (unsafe) handling and braking characteristics are introduced into the vehicle. This may result in loss of vehicle control, which could cause serious injury or death.
If studded snow tyres are installed on only the rear of any vehicle, it is recommended (but not required) that they be installed on the front. Only if studded tyres are installed on all wheel positions of a vehicle will optimum handling characteristics be achieved


In relation to tyre pressure,I dont mean drive on reduced pressure becuause that would be stupid.

However it can assist if you are stuck in snow

http://www.tyres-online.co.uk/techinfo/4x4tyre.asp
http://www.roadsni.gov.uk/service/service.htm

Now then, the main roads WERE gritted and CLEAR. Back streets are not normally gritted by the council, which is why grit bins are provided so you can chuck some round on the road and pavement outside your house.

Let's get it straight. The reason why the city centre was gridlocked was what seemed like the entire population of Sheffield decided to set off in the city centre in their cars at exactly the same time, causing gridlock. Outside the city centre the roads were empty.

By the way, guess how long it took me to get from town to Bradway last night? 22 minutes - 7 minutes on the train to Dore (which ran on time) then 15 minutes to walk up Twentywell Lane!

When I saw the traffic I didn't even try to get a bus.

Originally posted by Andy C
Now then, the main roads WERE gritted and CLEAR. Back streets are not normally gritted by the council, which is why grit bins are provided so you can chuck some round on the road and pavement outside your house.

Let's get it straight. The reason why the city centre was gridlocked was what seemed like the entire population of Sheffield decided to set off in the city centre in their cars at exactly the same time, causing gridlock. Outside the city centre the roads were empty.

By the way, guess how long it took me to get from town to Bradway last night? 22 minutes - 7 minutes on the train to Dore (which ran on time) then 15 minutes to walk up Twentywell Lane!

When I saw the traffic I didn't even try to get a bus.

1) Why did people leave early? - no confidence in the ability of our 'agencies' to control the traffic or keep the roads clear.
2) Chesterfield road is a major route and it was not gritted nor was Abbey Lane or Meadowhead or . . . . . How many grit bins do you suggest are needed for the good citizens to self-grit those roads?
3) Pleased to hear you had a smooth trip home. How many trains go to Woodseats?
4) Why did you have no confidence in the buses? Surely public transport in this city is not another useless public service is it?

I am also of the opinion that the chaos was caused by people panicing and causing the rush hour to occur ealier than usual and in appauling conditions.
If it had snowed overnight it would have been a different story.

On a related note I'd like to see a policy similar to the ones I believe they have in Germany and Canada regarding footpaths. The essence of this policy is that you are responsible for the bit of path outside your house (and that if someone were to slip and fall on it you would be liable!). The consequence of this is that people clear the paths straight after the snowfall making mobility safer for everyone. The footpaths at the moment are trecherous having been compacted and frozen.
I guess if you're disabled or elderly or have small children you just have to stay in and hope the snow melts real soon. :mad:

Just think - if everyone took just 5/10 mins to do their bit - not only would it be safer and pleasant for everyone, it may also enstill some sense of community between neighbours.

Nomme

My Dad drove home from work to Bradway, went via City Centre as his usual routes involve less major roads. Once he had cleared the city centre the roads were clear and empty and got home quickly.

As far as I know there were buses running to Woodseats from all bus companies that normally operate there, however due to the gridlock in the city centre they were running up to 4 hours late.

Originally posted by Andy C
My Dad drove home from work to Bradway, went via City Centre as his usual routes involve less major roads. Once he had cleared the city centre the roads were clear and empty and got home quickly.

As far as I know there were buses running to Woodseats from all bus companies that normally operate there, however due to the gridlock in the city centre they were running up to 4 hours late.

That's exactly my point - public transport 4 hours late!

I was stuck on Charter Row for over an hour. A simple action of traffic control at the roundabout would have solved this problem. I suppose if the police can't collect fines for working with traffic then they don't bother.

Maybe the police were too busy attening accidents?

Noticed motorists in town were just ignoring traffic lights etc, friend nearly got knocked down on pelican crossing at Sheaf Square!

Guess the thing to do last night was walk to first bus stop outside city centre chaos such as London Road or Queens Road and get a bus that departed High Street 4 hours ago!

Originally posted by nomme


Just think - if everyone took just 5/10 mins to do their bit - not only would it be safer and pleasant for everyone, it may also enstill some sense of community between neighbours.

Nomme

am i right in thinking that if you go out and clear/grit the part outside your own home,and then someone comes along and slips on it due to it re freezing,you are liable for the persons injuries

Originally posted by gizmo
am i right in thinking that if you go out and clear/grit the part outside your own home,and then someone comes along and slips on it due to it re freezing,you are liable for the persons injuries

Yeh do it,ill come and slip on it and we can go halves on the compo,,,lol

Originally posted by John
It was raining an hour before it started to snow heavy and some of the salt will have got washed away.

When that happens, there isn't much you can do.

Beside, even if they managed to cover all the main roads and did a "perfect" job, the snow will win if it comes down heavy enough.


They Started gritting around S17 after the evening peak 6-7pm then again at about 6am, as John has put because it was wet all the grit was washed away, there is also the problem of if there is no traffic the grit is not compacted into the road suface so it will just freeze.

I have been around the Highways & Lighting HQ at Olive Grove in a tour, Sheffield has the latest computer system which tells the depot when the road tempreature go's below 1.c.
There are 18 sensors on the roads in Sheffield, most of them are in the West side of the city because of the Pennines, when the temperature go's below 1.c on the computer screen are the 18
road name's with the sensors on them they then turn RED so the Highways Department knows which road is freezing and which are not:D

much as i love to moan at the council i do not think last nights problems were entiely their fault.

at 2.30 when it was snowing i went from penistone rd to shiregreen and had no probs. all the roads were gritted. then it stopped snowing an the sun came out for a short while and melted alot of the snow covering then as it went dark the temp dropped and it refroze. driving back hed no probs till i hit rutland rd then had to wait in the jams like everyone else (took 40 mins just to get down rutland rd) :(

but imo not the councils fault


also as has been said before a bag of rock salt in the boot is always handy