I'm just making this post to allow others to wake up like me.

Wake up? well what I mean is to allow yourself to think again, use your imagination, read books, write articles, talk and think, even dream. Why not! you can do it, so do it! (dont think of Nike here, thats what they want :loopy: )

Yes its time to turn your TV off, instead of watching the latest Hollywood blockbuster check out some independently produced film preferbly Arthouse in style, disconnect your Games console, listen to and get involved in radio talk shows instead of listening to music shows, Join and get involved in message forums, go for walks instead of driving, quit smoking and drink in moderation, if you need to take drugs :gag: make sure they are mind expanding.

Words of a maniac or words of wisdom? Read them think about them and then practice them, if then your life quality doesn't improve I believe there is either no hope or you have'nt tried.

I do all this anyway, aoart from the quit smoking thing.

You mean to say there are people that don't? I don't think you're rambling, I just think some of the things you've suggested are counter productive and don't stimulate your imagination.

Stop listening to music? I find it's my greatest source of inspiration. Most Arthouse is pretentious bull, but yes, go and see an independant film, IF you like the sound of it. Radio talk shows are just looking for the most outspoken people, and not for views of moderation. If you've nothing controversial to say on an issue, they won't play it.

To add a few, try writing a journal, try taking a photo, try cooking something new. Try making a home video (not that type, unless it's tastefully done). Discover a new passion, watch the news more than once. Do a crossword, do a quiz. Most of all have fun! We think nicer things when we're enjoying life.

Wilf

Originally posted by BrainThrust
Stop listening to music? I find it's my greatest source of inspiration. Most Arthouse is pretentious bull, but yes, go and see an independant film, IF you like the sound of it. Radio talk shows are just looking for the most outspoken people, and not for views of moderation. If you've nothing controversial to say on an issue, they won't play it.

Wilf

Let me explain what I mean.

Well first thing first, if you take Nick Margerrison's show on Hallam FM, this show you can talk about whatever, all he asks for is to be prepared. What you got to be prepared for is for Nick to question your chosen topic, regardless of his personal oppinion. Granted sometimes he'll stump you regardless of how well prepared you are, but if your prepared enough you'll stump him. Now most if not all other Talk shows dont allow for this because they fully interview you about your subject beforehand. (by the way i'm not a Hallam FM spokesperson, I am just someone who wants to help people like me (people who can think) to wake up and begin to think and live again.).

Now I will explain my thing about music as it is confusing as my mind cannot be read (or I hope not :suspect: ), When I said stop listening to music! I meant listen to radio talk show more and get involved with them, most current music is oppressive, Beathoven etc. is good thinking music (scientifically proven too I am add), also contemporary music is good too, The Doors, U2, Coldplay (even though I despise their music), Radiohead and even Queen, although music can and should be a personal choice.

Now take Rap and hardcore or Trance dance well all that music manages is too oppress the lower societies, thats why its been allowed too continue and grow.

Regardless of the small minority of Rappers who've made it big because of their ghetto or street raps about guns and drugs, they have managed this because the goverment have allowed them too, and wha do they do in turn "Bling Bling!".

You see because a few ghetto street guys n gals who make it, are allowed to rap about lower class situations, it helps oppress the lower classes because they too think they can accheive the same levels, but only a few are allowed.

What does happen is the simplyfying of language, to the point that oppression actually keeps the lower classes unwittingly either thick or depressed as compared to the upper classes and this disables them from bettering themselves, because they lose the ability to think and too express themselves.

Now dont think Rap or Dance music has a racial difference, because it doesn't, its now only a class difference.

Originally posted by wayne72
Let me explain what I mean.

Well first thing first, if you take Nick Margerrison's show on Hallam FM, this show you can talk about whatever, all he asks for is to be prepared. What you got to be prepared for is for Nick to question your chosen topic, regardless of his personal oppinion. Granted sometimes he'll stump you regardless of how well prepared you are, but if your prepared enough you'll stump him. Now most if not all other Talk shows dont allow for this because they fully interview you about your subject beforehand. (by the way i'm not a Hallam FM spokesperson, I am just someone who wants to help people like me (people who can think) to wake up and begin to think and live again.).

Now I will explain my thing about music as it is confusing as my mind cannot be read (or I hope not :suspect: ), When I said stop listening to music! I meant listen to talk show radios more, most current must is oppreessive, Beathoven etc. is good thinking music, also contemporary music is good too, The Doors, U2, Coldplay (even though I despise their music), Radiohead and even Queen, although music can and should be a pesonal choice.

Now take Rap and hardcore or Trance dance well all that music manages is too oppress the lower societies, thats why its been allowed too continue and grow.

Regardless of the small minority of Rappers who've made it big because of their ghetto or street raps about guns and drugs, they have managed this because the goverment have allowed them too.

You see because a few ghetto street guys n gals who make it are allowed to rap about lower class situations, it helps oppress the lower classes because they too think they can accheive the same levels, but only a few are allowed.

What does happen is the simplyfying of language, to the point that oppression actually keeps the lower classes unwittingly either thick or depressed as compaed to the upper classes and this disables them from bettering themselves, because they lose the ability to think and too express themselves.

Now dont think Rap or Dance music as a racial difference, because it doesn't, its now a class thing.

Fair point on the talk shows then.

I certainly don't agree with the rap/dance bit at all. You're suggesting that Rap and dance flourish because the GOVERNMENT allow it? I think you're overestimating their powers there. It is actually something much more innocent in my eyes. Music labels are unwilling to try anything new, they like solid quantifiable product with a audience already researched and establish. For whatever reason, people like to listen to rap, people like to have a boogie to dance. I don't see this as confining them in any way unless that is the only music they listen to.

The government does 'allow' anyone to make it big, it isn't a conspiracy. The rappers that do make it are somewhat talented but are also fit a certain checklist, they have a small amount of underground recognition, they have been lucky to get signed due to certain opportunities they got right and they are willing to be flexible with what a major label wants to do with their work in terms of ownership and creative control.

What happens is they are allowed to rap in a way they know sells records. I know I'm stereotyping large scale media execs into something monstrous who just want to maintain hegemony but thats really all it is.

As for dance, some of the best thinking music is dance, it's the modern classical. An orchestra exchanged for a computer and a keyboard. Don't agree? Try 'In Sides' by Orbital and come tell me that, it's the album i never tire of and can work for hours to.

Wilf

Most topics or political statements can be passes off as conspiracy theory, this is the easy answer by the goverments so as not to answer the question.

This answer itself is a paradox as it could easily be concieved as Conspiracy.

Now when I talk of Rap being opressive, I dont mean they ae all crap tunes, I like "Ghetto Gospel" in the sense that its a good tune and I heard Snowmans "Informer" the other day for the first time in ages and thought wow that tunes full of energy.

Now what I mean by oppessing the lower classes is that most Rap and Dance listeners are from the lower classes and are easily influenced by the so called street talk of Rap songs, you only have to talk too them to understand what I mean.

The word Chav is also thrown around by the media, making the easily influenced none thinking oppressed lower classes acting and believing they should act how the tabloids portray Chavs.

Now take the word "Chav" is inessence a word to oppress the lower or working classes, thus making it no better no worse than any ratial word.

Now tell me how many Rap or Street talkers will ever be listened to or taken serious by the powers that be? I doubt any, so the lower classes influenced by this kind of music are being and will be unknowingly oppressed.

Originally posted by wayne72
Well first thing first, if you take Nick Margerrison's show on Hallam FM,

I think that was a bit of an own goal there ;)

Originally posted by Tony
I think that was a bit of an own goal there ;)

Sorry but I don't quite understand, could you please elaborate, so as I can give a proper reply.

Originally posted by wayne72
Let me explain what I mean.
Now take Rap and hardcore or Trance dance well all that music manages is too oppress the lower societies, thats why its been allowed too continue and grow.

Regardless of the small minority of Rappers who've made it big because of their ghetto or street raps about guns and drugs, they have managed this because the goverment have allowed them too, and wha do they do in turn "Bling Bling!".

You see because a few ghetto street guys n gals who make it, are allowed to rap about lower class situations, it helps oppress the lower classes because they too think they can accheive the same levels, but only a few are allowed.

What does happen is the simplyfying of language, to the point that oppression actually keeps the lower classes unwittingly either thick or depressed as compared to the upper classes and this disables them from bettering themselves, because they lose the ability to think and too express themselves.

Now dont think Rap or Dance music has a racial difference, because it doesn't, its now only a class difference.

You're funny Wayne. For someone who claims to enjoy the diversity of listening to different opinions and being encouraged to think, you have some laughably narrow-minded views on certain types of music!

But I'm enjoying your thread for it's sheer randomness! :thumbsup: At first I thought it was going to become something thought provoking and inspiring, but instead you seem to have been side-tracked by having a rant about rappers! You also seem to view the 'lower classes' with a certain ammount of distaste.

Perhaps the moral of this story is that we all need to embrace different things every day for life to be exciting, thought-provoking and stimulating. For me that might mean listening to more talk radio (which I already enjoy when I can find the channel), or trying classic FM. For you it could mean sampling some of the different types of dance music on offer. As Wilf points out, some of it is almost like modern-day classical music.

I wonder what would happen if we all tried to do the opposite of what we normally do for a day? Set our alarm early instead of snoozing, try a different sandwich for lunch, watch a soap instead of a documentary in the evening, ect. ect.

Originally posted by wayne72
Sorry but I don't quite understand, could you please elaborate, so as I can give a proper reply.

Maybe Tony was referring to you being sucked in by the global capitalist media machine, particularly regional talk radio 'product'.

By providing lots of inconsequential ways to air ideas, the global media machine dissipates energy that might otherwise be focussed on more productive activities.

Or that listening to that intellectual lightweight, or paying any attention to him will only have the opposite to the desired effect.

Originally posted by wayne72
Sorry but I don't quite understand, could you please elaborate, so as I can give a proper reply.

You're promoting a show that is only allowed because it is run by capitalists who like you to think what they want and follow the line. Only listened to the show once, but it hardly seemed a beacon of intellectualism... the callers all sound related, I expect from one large family in Barnsley... It's entertainment.

In contrast, rap music is an art-form of the people, a real outlet for the creative masses that has forced it's way into the mainstream. The labels that control this music are often formed by the artists themselves, and so the money isn't controlled by the same right-wing rich men that most of the music industry is.

Two very bad examples for someone who is promoting free thought to pick... which probably makes people by automatically suspicious and dismissive of you.

The rap issue is pretty complex I think.

On the one hand, the rappers who have become very popular and sold lots of records are generally the ones who have managed to package a particular view of black culture and sell it to white teenagers. This is why you get a narrow portrayal of black identity which entrenches racial prejudice among white people, while providing negative role models for black people. This applies whether the labels are owned by the artists themselves or - much more likely - subsidiaries of major labels.

On the other hand, some independent voices do manage to break through as well. You might dislike 50 Cent - his motives are purely commercial and his music is dull - but does anyone seriously think the world would be a better place without an articulate and committed artist like Dizzee Raskal, whose music communicates accross racial and class boundaries for the simple reason that he means it?

There was a time when hip hop was all about inventiveness and self-expression (listen to De La Soul, Public Enemy, Eric B and Rakim, etc.), before the gangsta formula was discovered and started to be endlessly recycled. Brilliant though he is as a producer, the man responsible for this more than anyone else is probably Dr Dre.

It's not a completely lost cause now though - the battle for the soul of the most vital musical form of the last thirty years is still being fought...

Originally posted by RodimusPrime
The rap issue is pretty complex I think.

On the one hand, the rappers who have become very popular and sold lots of records are generally the ones who have managed to package a particular view of black culture and sell it to white teenagers. This is why you get a narrow portrayal of black identity which entrenches racial prejudice among white people, while providing negative role models for black people. This applies whether the labels are owned by the artists themselves or - much more likely - subsidiaries of major labels.

On the other hand, some independent voices do manage to break through as well. You might dislike 50 Cent - his motives are purely commercial and his music is dull - but does anyone seriously think the world would be a better place without an articulate and committed artist like Dizzee Raskal, whose music communicates accross racial and class boundaries for the simple reason that he means it?

There was a time when hip hop was all about inventiveness and self-expression (listen to De La Soul, Public Enemy, Eric B and Rakim, etc.), before the gangsta formula was discovered and started to be endlessly recycled. Brilliant though he is as a producer, the man responsible for this more than anyone else is probably Dr Dre.

It's not a completely lost cause now though - the battle for the soul of the most vital musical form of the last thirty years is still being fought...

Thats possibly the best post I've read all day. It sums up rap in my own head more accurately than I could express it,

Wilf

Originally posted by JBee
You're funny Wayne. For someone who claims to enjoy the diversity of listening to different opinions and being encouraged to think, you have some laughably narrow-minded views on certain types of music!

But I'm enjoying your thread for it's sheer randomness! :thumbsup: At first I thought it was going to become something thought provoking and inspiring, but instead you seem to have been side-tracked by having a rant about rappers! You also seem to view the 'lower classes' with a certain ammount of distaste.

Perhaps the moral of this story is that we all need to embrace different things every day for life to be exciting, thought-provoking and stimulating. For me that might mean listening to more talk radio (which I already enjoy when I can find the channel), or trying classic FM. For you it could mean sampling some of the different types of dance music on offer. As Wilf points out, some of it is almost like modern-day classical music.

I wonder what would happen if we all tried to do the opposite of what we normally do for a day? Set our alarm early instead of snoozing, try a different sandwich for lunch, watch a soap instead of a documentary in the evening, ect. ect.

Glad I can be Funny :clap:

Let me just explain, I did not make this post to just attack certain music groups. I also see that games machines are addictive and help to oppress the thoughts, how? well every game as one path to follow, the game tells you what to think. When you are reading books you create your own thoughts and pictures in your head.

Now kids and adults allow these game to unwittingly oppress them, due to their addictiveness (i've been there). As for TV well most people who watch TV generally watch Soaps or Reality TV, both of which are mind numbing and either oppress lower classes like Big Brother for instance by exploiting the contestants who believe they will become celebrities loved by everyone. Soaps meanwhile try to exploit lower classes with there story lines which generally try to represent stereotypical lower class situations, thus expoiting them again.

Now heading back to music, I believe Rap is no longer ratial, its a class thing. How many rappers will ever been taken serious, when they talk in a simplified language of their own making.

Politicians sometimes pretend to like certain Rappers, as this gains them popularity with the main listners of Rap music. So due to this self simplifying of the language to make Raps or Street talk I have to ask how can this improves your life.

Yeah for sure some rappers make it big, its what the capitalist society wants, it then gives hope to the lower classes in thinking they can make it to "Blinging Bling" lifestyles, well wake up about less than 0.5% or less of all people who take up Rap make it.

Now the way I see it is that the Capitalists of our society feared Rap music in the 80's when it came about, then after seeing how they can use it in a way to oppress the people they fear the most being the lower classes, then they began to use it.

Now for Dance music, I generally see the adrenalin made hardhouse beats can bring out the violence in you. If you look around most people who listen to hard house dance music are more violent.

If I can simplify my post, I am trying to say keep variety a part of your life, but use the best bits of this variety. What I mean is eat a Steak instead of a Burger.

Lets put it this way if I spoke out aloud in a pub about this subject, I predict i'd get a good kicking, which in turn would prove my whole point.

Dont think i'm getting at the Lower Classes, I am trying to help them, I consider myself in to be the Lower Class of society, but I feel I have awakened to realise how the capitalists have been oppressing me, without realising for many, many years.

Good post though, I do realise I can be random, I also realise I can be hard to understand, but i'l try to explain things more simpler as this thread hopefully continues, as I am rather enjoying the replies. Now dont get me wrong, I believe that most people who post on here are probably awake, but there may be some who can be awoken.

Originally posted by wayne72
Now for Dance music, I generally see the adrenalin make hardhouse beats can bring out violence in you. If you look around most people who listen to hard house dance music are more violent.

Whilst I'm no fan of this excuse for music, what complete utter crap. Your whole post is full of this rubbish but it would be a horrendous waste of bandwidth quoting it all again.

If went into a pub talking about this, you wouldnt get a kicking - you'd clear the pup in in minutes though.

Surely you could give a more responsive reply.

Originally posted by wayne72
Surely you could give a more responsive reply.

There isn't much people can reply too. Your posts read like a poor essay, with no coherent argument... saying things like soaps oppress the working class by showing working class situations makes no sense. Perhaps if you told us HOW they were being oppressed, we could address the issues.

The same goes for rap... yeah, so 0.5% or less of people who want to be rappers make it... and? The same goes for rock singers, or footballers, where is the point?

I don't see why your message has to do with class anyway... I agree that people should experience as much as they can, but as well as discussing politics, and classical music, maybe people should watch Big Brother every once in a while... Just to see what they are missing. It works both ways.

Steak is very nice, but sometime you just want a nice burger.

No you missed the point I made about soaps, I said they used exploitation story lines.

Well if i'm honest with myself, I should not expect too many people to understand me (wait for this being quoted :thumbsup: ), or what i'm trying to say. Mainly because the capitalist system has managed to do what it intended and that is to blind and oppress the lower classes.


I give up (or I may give up :| )

Just a thought you lot maybe from the upper classes, then of course this post is pretty pointless :suspect:

If only everyone had their 'class' tatooed on their forehead eh wayne, then you could not bother to engage with the lower class because thy are all pawns of a capitalist construct and you would be abale to avoid upper class people for being exploitative controllers of the means of production?

CLASS IS NOT THAT SIMPLE

You put othe rpeople's failing to understand what you are on about down as 'their fault' when maybe it is because you're talking nonsense incoherently!

Wilf

Originally posted by wayne72
Just a thought you lot maybe from the upper classes, then of course this post is pretty pointless :suspect:

Well, I'm not from the lower class I'm afraid, so maybe that is the problem.

I don't watch soaps, but have watched big brother from time to time. I don't read tabloids, and have only listened to that Hallam FM phone in once, because I don't like being 'oppressed' by all the adverts that they have on there all the time.

I don't read tabloids, and I do read all the time, both factual texts and fictional books. I do listen to rap music, along with just about every other kind of music, because I take my influence from all the great musicians who appreciate all kinds of music despite what society tells them they should like.

I think that I have an idea of what you are trying to say, but you aren't actually giving any evidence or real examples of how people are being oppressed. I think there is a huge lack of people using their brains in this country, but I think that is down to the individuals, and not the 'oppressive capitalist society'.

Maybe some examples of how the lower classes are being oppressed by TV and rap music, and how they are being set free by a lowbrow radio show, would help us to understand?

OK take it this way, have any of you read 1984, i'm sure most you posters have. If so think about the book and what its about, then you may understand better what I am trying to say.

Brain Thust sorry you think i'm blaming you for not understanding fully what my post is all about, if it comes across that way its not intentional. I will be honest I do find it hard to put down the right words, so instead of just staying quiet I write what I can think. If you prefered I didn't then let me know I wont be offended, and I will stop and move onto some other forum.

The fact that you are here. posting and exploring your views, as well as inviting those of others shows that you are doing just what you advocate.

This is a Good Thing©

Many others will follow in your wake - make a good one.

Originally posted by wayne72
OK take it this way, have any of you read 1984, i'm sure most you posters have. If so think about the book and what its about, then you may understand better what I am trying to say.

Brain Thust sorry you think i'm blaming you for not understanding fully what my post is all about, if it comes across that way its not intentional. I will be honest I do find it hard to put down the right words, so instead of just staying quiet I write what I can think. If you prefered I didn't then let me know I wont be offended, and I will stop and move onto some other forum.

Wayne, you really do seem to have trouble in differentiating me from the words I put down. Perhaps I should start my posts with "the views here are not necessarily Wilf's opinions, he just likes to poke holes in othe rpeople's arguments"

I have read 1984, what you're saying makes no sense. You're trying to say that rappers and computer games are deisgned so big brother can eliminate any dissent within the Media/Legal/Political construct that forms the social construct we live our lives in?

Big Brother used fear and suspicion to govern lives in 1984, not entertainment. Have you read Brave New World, I think that sums up more what you are trying to say?

Wilf

Originally posted by wayne72
Well if i'm honest with myself, I should not expect too many people to understand me (wait for this being quoted :thumbsup: ), or what i'm trying to say. Mainly because the capitalist system has managed to do what it intended and that is to blind and oppress the lower classes.

Wahay! Look what I did... I quoted it! :banana:

I understand exactly what you're trying to say Wayne, although you've not been expressing yourself particularly clearly. However this doesn't mean I have to agree with your views. Understanding someone and agreeing with them are two different things - but I think you're getting them confused on this thread.

It's turning into a good debate though - if a bit abstract at times.

I do actually agree with some of the things you are saying Wayne. I think there are far too many people out there who are substituting modern forms of entertainment for active thinking. As a society I would agree that we are dumbing down - but I don't think we're doing it because we're oppressed, I think a lot of people do it out of choice. There are plenty of alternatives to video games and rap music out there. It's not exactly hard to get access to a book or tune into Classic FM. But most people choose not to.

I enjoyed your analogy about eating steak instead of a burger. But I have to agree with Snook's arguement, sometimes a burger can be good too.

In my opinion we should all try to read, listen to and do as many different things as possible in order to be truely intellectually challenged. And that includes dipping into popular culture.

For example, as part of my job I read ALL the newspapers every day, and my general knowledge is increased just as much by reading the tabloids and it is by reading the broadsheets.

Variety is the spice of life.

Originally posted by wayne72
OK take it this way, have any of you read 1984, i'm sure most you posters have. If so think about the book and what its about, then you may understand better what I am trying to say.

Brain Thust sorry you think i'm blaming you for not understanding fully what my post is all about, if it comes across that way its not intentional. I will be honest I do find it hard to put down the right words, so instead of just staying quiet I write what I can think. If you prefered I didn't then let me know I wont be offended, and I will stop and move onto some other forum.

If what you are trying to say is that George Bush has used the Orwellian idea of permanent war to keep control of the presidency by exploiting peoples view that you shouldn't change leader while in the middle of a war, then yes, I agree.

I think you should post your ideas, I think they are interesting, but what I wanted you to do was back up your throw-away comments with some facts or example. At the moment they are just sweeping statements.

Originally posted by JBee
For example, as part of my job I read ALL the newspapers every day,

How I envy you!

Do you get to do the crossword too?

Wilf

Originally posted by BrainThrust
Big Brother used fear and suspicion to govern lives in 1984, not entertainment. Have you read Brave New World, I think that sums up more what you are trying to say?

Wilf

exactly. Modern Soma.

LOL isn't it strange or great how 2 different people can interpret the same book in 2 different ways? I suppose that is what actualy does keep us individuals :thumbsup: .

As for Brave New World yes I have read it, quite a while ago and yes it could have influenced my post. But I do think the "Totalitarianism" is beggining to exist in our society of course not to the extreme of 1984 as of yet, also Newspeak can be associated in street talk and rap talk (nearly the same thing), somthing not too discouraged nowadays by our goverments and media infact it is more encouraged, now I ask is this a good thing or not? one good thing is that at least we still have the choice, for now.

The dumbing down process, now that could be for real, take a look at adverts for instance yes the original "Tango" advert was funny, but nearly every advert is now talking to us like were "Dumbo's" or thats how I see it. Another thing I have noticed over the last few years is how much News Presenters and Reporters talk down too us, as though we are children in infant schools and they are trying to make us understand (not sure if i've described this bit as I intended, but some of you may understand).

Now i'l explain a little about why I say Hardcore dance can be associated with aggression, it may be a lame idea but it is my idea. Well in my town the place that plays the most Hardcore dance also happens too have the most trouble, now the place that plays 70's and 80's happens to have the least amount of trouble. Now this statement alone doesn't nessasarily stand up, as in the dance club it is usually full of underage drinking, alchol and drugs (a bad combination in itself) while the other club is generally full of 30 year olds plus and alchol.

But now when you get someone driving fast and aggressive you tend to find they have dance music blurting out of their car too. Now this all could be complete bo**ox, but has'nt scientists proved that music can affect your mental state?

Glad to see some of you find my posts at least interesting, like I say I dont wish to offend anyone, all I want is to be able to express my views in a safe enviroment were I get feed back wether its positive or negative.

Somthing you will learn about me is my posts are random and strange, its all about whats going on in my head :loopy: .

Cheers Wayne