I saw an article in the Star a couple of months ago were an english lady had dressed in the full Asian ladies clothing with vail. The questions I would like to ask is similar to her feelings.

Do you feel isolated behind the vail while walking about?

There was obviously a time when you were younger you may not have worn it. How did you feel when you had to wear it?

If you don't wish to answer in public please pm.

I would imagine it would be. I'm not asian or anything but I'm extremely interested in people's feelings towards this as I have often wondered whether people feel like this.

my asian mates mrs wears a vail, she is an english convert!
she finds it very easy and makes her feel good.

Really? Oh..perhaps not then. Does it not make her feel like she's a bit cut off from people then?

no at all

in fact she likes to wear, says it makes her proud to be a muslim!

she is only 22 and very attractive too!

were in sheff u from?

In the various hotels I've stayd in on my stopovers to and from New Zealand I've watched veiled ladies trying to eat their breakfasts.

They have to lift the veil away from their throats and then negotiate their loaded cutlery under the veil and into their mouths.

Meanwhile their male companions are more often than not wearing American designer clothes with expensive watches and jewellry.

The contrast in the two cannot be ignored by the European traveller, the men seem to have every freedom and the women seem to be very restrained.

I have no problem with this I only write what I see and wonder what it's all about.

Happy Days!

bare foot in the kitchen comes to mind...

:D

nah its not like that all mate!

the asian women also wear expensive clothes, have lots of expensive (proper gold) gadgets etc.

but you only seem to notice the men because they maybe show it off a bit more!

lol

Originally posted by Asaw
I saw an article in the Star a couple of months ago were an english lady had dressed in the full Asian ladies clothing with vail. The questions I would like to ask is similar to her feelings.

Do you feel isolated behind the vail while walking about?

There was obviously a time when you were younger you may not have worn it. How did you feel when you had to wear it?

If you don't wish to answer in public please pm. Do you not mean Veil ?(Not Vail)

Originally posted by pattricia
Do you not mean Veil ?(Not Vail)

Im sure we all know what Asaw meant, without picking up on spelling. :thumbsup:

I have always wondered how the veiled women present themselves at Customs for ID purposes. What is the ruling on this? Just curious, that's all.:confused:

Originally posted by spyro2000
Im sure we all know what Asaw meant, without picking up on spelling. :thumbsup:

I thought it was a pretty safe bet that Asaw was referring to the veil, rather than to a vail, vial, vale, veal, or a vole. I think the temptation to reveal, unveil and correct obvious spelling mistakes, typos or other violations of correct English usage on this forum should be resisted, but I suspect that a plea to end this vile practice will be to no avail.

Sorry I spelt it wrong but it is a shame that I was not able to get a lady who wore one. I am very interested in crunchie's mates wife who is english deciding to do it.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Im sure we all know what Asaw meant, without picking up on spelling. :thumbsup: Sorry,I apologise.Im getting too big for my bootees! Point taken.

asaw are you male or female?

my mates wife has converted to islam about 2 years ago, says its the best thing she ever did!

Female why?:clap:

Yes Desy keep your nose out of my questions. Yes I am and my former workmate always pokes his nose in from time to time.

In reality we probably all have a 'front' to the world.

What is the difference between wearing a veil and hiding behind a trowel load of coloured gunge, other than the fact that the trowel load of gunge is intended to 'appeal' to the opposite sex, and is thereby a subconcious begging to be liked based on a veneer, but the veil makes the statement that you'll have to accept the person within without such judgements.

I think everybody should try it for at least one week :clap:
How liberating would that be?

What an interesting thread! I have never even thought about it but now I'm intrigued. I can imagine its a great feeling wandering around without anyone knowing who you are. I would love to give it a try.

I bet they're all popstars underneath! :D

Originally posted by Strix
In reality we probably all have a 'front' to the world.

What is the difference between wearing a veil and hiding behind a trowel load of coloured gunge, other than the fact that the trowel load of gunge is intended to 'appeal' to the opposite sex, and is thereby a subconcious begging to be liked based on a veneer, but the veil makes the statement that you'll have to accept the person within without such judgements.

I think everybody should try it for at least one week :clap:
How liberating would that be?

I think the difference is that make up does not interfere with our facial features in such as a way as to completely obscure them.

Our body language and facial expressions play a big part in how we communicate as human beings. To cover them, therefore has to have an effect.

Originally posted by Mo
I think the difference is that make up does not interfere with our facial features in such as a way as to completely obscure them.

Our body language and facial expressions play a big part in how we communicate as human beings. To cover them, therefore has to have an effect.

These are good points. The veil might be interpreted as a form of depersonalisation, in that features distinctive to a particular individual and which are integral to that person's external identity are covered up. Of course, every person should have the right to wear whatever clothing he or she thinks fit (providing their choices do not offend prevailing moral codes with regard to decency). However, in many parts of the muslim world (not all), the wearing of the veil is not so much a free and unconstrained personal choice but a cultural, religious and societal requirement - i.e. in effect a compulsory dress code, symbolising both the differences in status between men and women and also between the ummah and the rest of humanity. It would be nice to think that in our country no compulsion is involved with regard to the wearing of the veil. However, I doubt very much whether this is the case in practice, even if the element of compulsion may spring from peer and family pressure rather than from any institutional edict.

Originally posted by Mo
I think the difference is that make up does not interfere with our facial features in such as a way as to completely obscure them.
You've never been/spoken to a goth then? ;)

Originally posted by Strix
You've never been/spoken to a goth then? ;)

Excuse me?

I've been wearing black lipstick since before you were born FF ;)

Originally posted by Strix
I've been wearing black lipstick since before you were born FF ;)

Fair Doos :)

how old are you?

lol lol

you are so interested in this subject anyway?

I'm a traditionalist though, I suspect you're one of the 'new rocks' variety, and possibly wear less makeup than I used to :headbang:

It's odd how people don't seen to be able to see past the masks we wear and the garb which we adorn ourselves with.

Did anybody see the episode of wife swap with the chapter of bikers? Funny how people are always so keen to judge based on what they see :(

So what are the reason(s) that the veil is worn?

Mind you, there's merit in the notion that it should be compulsary for some celebrities...
A certain Mr. Manilow springs to mind... ;)

Originally posted by Pseudonym
So what are the reason(s) that the veil is worn?


The Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. "

Originally posted by kay_cee
The Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. "
:mad: So, the Qur'an instructs men to dictate the actions of women and gives them the required get out clause for molesting any woman who doesn't heed this repression?

It would have been far more practical to state Keep yer ruddy hands to yerself, for Allah forgives nothing :rant:

Originally posted by kay_cee
The Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. "
So veiled means that they are free respectable women, not to be annoyed, eh?

Hmm... That might explain the way that certain people seem to view western (unveiled) women...

I thought 'certain people' got their hands chopped off in certain countries for certain misdemeanours :suspect:

I've got to admit, I find it fascinating when I see women 'veiled' and wonder why they feel it necessary/choose to do it?

On holiday recently there was a couple - the woman veiled and the man in western dress. The man was able to eat, talk to anyone he wanted and swam in the pool. His wife was only seen at meal times.

I was extremely curious as to how they manage to eat whilst wearing the veil, and tried to watch without making it too obvious.

I'm very much live and let live and try not to judge people, but I am interested and curious to know about people.

I do find it difficult to understand the concept of hiding oneself except your eyes - when your partner indulges in whatever they choose to do...

On a number 52 bus, about 2 years ago going into town a women got on dressed in the all over black veil, not uncommon on that bus route. As she stood to get off a bloke behind me started shouting abuse at her. I turned round and gave him a piece of my mind, telling him it's non of his business how other people choose to live their lives etc and to shut up swearing.

But ... I'm still bemused as to why women choose to adopt the veil if they do not have the peer/family pressure to do so.

Originally posted by Strix
I thought 'certain people' got their hands chopped off in certain countries for certain misdemeanours :suspect:
No cause for suspicion Strix, I'm referring to some of the members of those communities whose ancestors hail from the countries that you mention... and others...

Not all by any means, It's far from a generalisation but to males whose own families zealously guard the females from the unsolicited and unchaperoned attention of other males, young, free-living western women are evidently seen by some as an easily-accessible alternative, with very little risk attached... The british way is not to defend the family honour at all costs.

Hence they may be regarded as 'easy meat', in the same fashion that young girls on holiday abroad often are...

Perhaps veils should be made compulsory for all girls prior to marriage? True integration, eh?

In most cultures, women wear something to signify that they are married, i.e. not available.

In western cultures, we wear rings, in certain african cultures they wear head gear etc.

Indeed until recently the notion of covering ones head was very much in practice even here in the UK.

In Islam, modesty is meant to be the ideal and some muslims in their interpretation will wear the veil, others will just wear a headscarf.

At the end of the day its a cultural/personal issue.

Remember in some parts of the world, men and women wander around near naked.

Also, there appears to be a bit of trend at the moment with headscarves. I've noticed that there are even Calvin Klein and other 'designer' labels in headscarves.

Originally posted by wolfman
At the end of the day its a cultural/personal issue.
If the quote from the Koran is correct and I've no reason to doubt it, then in this instance it appears to be a religious issue... Indicating to the true believer that those women who don't wear the veil are unworthy of respect.

Strix summed it up nicely when she wrote "It would have been far more practical to state Keep yer ruddy hands to yerself, for Allah forgives nothing :rant:"

Ain't religion wonderful! :rolleyes:

So... does wearing a veil bring you more or less respect as a woman?

If you wear a veil, then people automatically assume that you have been bullied into it by family, peer pressure or religion. It is assumed that your human rights to express yourself have been compromised, and many people pity you and wonder about your life.

If you don't wear a veil, you get whistled at and hollered at by groups of men as you walk down the street. Men grab at you in bars, even if you're dressed conservatively. And if you're driving and pull up at traffic lights, the bloke in the white van next to you takes the opportunity to have a good leer, and you can't do anything about it.

I suspect Asian women are actually having more fun under that veil than we think, as long as they've put it on by choice. And I suspect Western women suffer a lot more hassle than they choose to let on because their hair and faces are visable as they go about their daily business.

I envy the husbands of these head to toe veil wearing women, I can just see it now... She gets up in the morning, complaining of not knowning what to wear - He's hardly gonna have to sit there and wear an impressed grimace for the next 60mins like the rest of us whilst she tries on 40 different combinations before reverting back to the first thing she tried on!! LOL


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Have you any idea how many colours those things come in? :shocked:

I saw a whole troupe of them in Peterborough regulary - I wondered if they were colour coded so as not to confuse their husbands :hihi:

Actually, I suspect the introduction of colour instead of black is actually a 'freedom of expression' thing ;)

Originally posted by Strix
...Actually, I suspect the introduction of colour instead of black is actually a 'freedom of expression' thing ;)
Don't be so ridiculous Strix!

It's obvious why it's done...

It's to avoid making embarrassing mistakes at wife-swapping parties! ;)

Originally posted by Pseudonym
Don't be so ridiculous Strix!

It's obvious why it's done...

It's to avoid making embarrassing mistakes at wife-swapping parties! ;)
This gets my nomination for post of the month :thumbsup:

Do they have to send back to asia for them or can they get the clothes from Sheffield like that shop at the side of Hitchens down Attercliffe?

Originally posted by saxon51
I have always wondered how the veiled women present themselves at Customs for ID purposes. What is the ruling on this? Just curious, that's all.:confused:

Can anyone answer this for me yet, please?

I've always wondered....Can veiled women unveil in front of women? They may take them into a separate room with a woman...perhaps?

Originally posted by saxon51
Can anyone answer this for me yet, please?

Don't know, but they have had trouble with photos on drivers licences....think they have to go in a seperate room to have their photo IDs taken, "Behind closed doors " and all that stuff !

Thanks FilthFan and poppins. I thought this, but wondered how - and in what surroundings - this took place. Would there be special staff who are dedicated to this task, or would any officer be allowed to do it?

Originally posted by saxon51
Thanks FilthFan and poppins. I thought this, but wondered how - and in what surroundings - this took place. Would there be special staff who are dedicated to this task, or would any officer be allowed to do it?

Depending on the beliefs I think that perhaps it would be different officers or at the very least a woman.

Thanks FilthFan.

Don't know why I'm so curious, just something that's been bugging me ever since the country went barmy about people entering premises with covered heads/faces, and CCTV identification etc.

Can see the religious implications though.

Some years ago my brother worked in Teheran, he used to catch a flight regularly from Paris to Teheran.

He admitted he used to leer at the number of lovely looking women who were returning from shopping trips loaded with packages and parcels from the top fashion and jewellry houses.

The women wore the latest European fashions mini skirts, high heeled shoes with best hairdo's and makeup.

On landing they all went into a private lounge at the airport and changed.

When they re-appeared, they were all dressed like Guiness bottles.

No axe to grind and no offence to anyone just an observation on the funny side of life.

Happy Days!

Still think that photo was the best I saw was asian lady with her outfit tucked in her nickers at the back wearing stockings and suspenders plus high heels.


Sounds about right Pop T

I 've found the comments on this subject very interesting but there is one thing I would like somebody to tell me.

Recently we have all seen the terrible disaster that has struck parts of Pakistan.

In all the newsreels I have not seen one woman wearing a veil in Islamabad and the surrounding areas.

How is it that more young Pakistani women are taking to wearing the veil in the UK.

Is it they are more religious? Are they making a fashion statement or is it a reaction against living amongst Christians?

Maybe I've missed the point of wearing the veil somewhere, maybe somebody out there will put me straight.

Its the same as when people came from jamaica and africa. the next couple of generations brought up in this country rebelled and looked into their roots and rediscovered their history. I think its the same thing happening at the moment.


with the head scarf they have to wear it when in the company of a possible suiter. Thats any man apart from your grandad, dad and brother. I have some female muslim friends and they say it makes them feel a better muslim.

I use to go swimming at a local pool when i lived in newcastle and got to know a couple of the lifeguards. One told me on thursday mornings there was a women only session for the muslim women, one time the only female lifeguard due to work that shift phoned in sick so he had to do it. but had to be in the pool area before any of the women and had to face the wall the entire time! I would of loved to see what happened if he was actually needed and im sure it broke many health and safety rules...

Originally posted by saxon51
I have always wondered how the veiled women present themselves at Customs for ID purposes. What is the ruling on this? Just curious, that's all.:confused:

Take that thought back a stage. What do you think they do for passport photos? They must all photograph like fabric-covered versions of Ned Kelly.

I recently renewed a passport and it states quite clearly that no photograph will be acceptable unless the full face is showing.

I'm glad common sense reigns on this one.

Happy days!

Originally posted by FilthFan
I've always wondered....Can veiled women unveil in front of women? They may take them into a separate room with a woman...perhaps?

I think this is usually the case, there are certain sections of the house set aside to the female sex. They often don a whole other outfit underneath their chador to wear in the company of their friends.

Originally posted by PopT
On landing they all went into a private lounge at the airport and changed.
When they re-appeared, they were all dressed like Guiness bottles.

This is because in Iran hejab (the Muslim code of modest dress) is actually a part of the law. If a women goes about immodestly dressed (ie without head/arms/legs/body covered) she is breaking the law. (Not the case in Pakistan.)

This summer I spent a month travelling Iran with my partner and had to comply with said dress code. It made for easy travel, I must admit, as cumbersome as it was in the summer heat. The men were always respectful in the way they treated me (which is more than I can say for daily life in Western countries). Although in some towns they talked to me through my partner, directing questions about me to him rather than talking directly to me. Drove me up the wall; I felt completely invisible! But that is what they see as treating a woman with respect in the more conservative parts of Iran.

But the legislated hejab it is a real problem in Iran as it is no longer a mark of modesty or piety as it was pre-revolution - it is simply an enforced law that even foreigners must observe.

Here in the UK when a woman chooses to wear hejab it says a lot. And I do agree with liamfh that it is a way of preserving their roots and culture, and of showing that they are proud of their heritage.