I love this city, spent my whole 36 years here and dont intend leaving. Yesterday had a good afternoon watching football in walkabout with my mates. We had a good few beers (dont get out much, young family etc etc!) and wandered up west street after the match. Went to varsity then the swim inn. I felt distinctly uncomfortable, my mates were aware that some of the swfc hooligan element were in there. We moved on to cavendish and then red deer. It was then time for me to go. West street was buzzing, great atmosphere birthday celebrations, hen nights all sorts a really great atmosphere.

Then it kicked off a bit further down west st, full on brawl, the people that had been in the swim inn, many of them are older than me I am sure. Police vans arrived but far too late, men wandered past me stood at the bus stop covered in blood but with an air of pride.

What really hacks me off is that an enjoyable vibrant atmosphere in an up and coming city is significantly tainted by this utter scum element.:rant: We should not accept it.

I totaly understand your dissmay at the senseless violence you have come across in the city yesterday Herbert, but unfortunately it has gone on for as long as i can remember.

Sheffield is not the only city to suffer from this nonsense though and to be honest nor is it anyway as bad as some places.

It can ruin your day/night out though, i'm like yourself in not going out as much these days due to various commitments, and when i do i feel i've deserved it and can do without having to dodge the nutters.
It sounds like your mates go out more often though, being aware of the trouble before it kicked off.
I guess that's the trick, be aware of your surroundings and move on if things don't feel right.

God knows what is happening. Was in Leeds yesterday and went around quite a few bars - Squares, Slug and Lettuce, The Sports Cafe, Bar Risa, Varsity etc, and watched the football. Never saw any trouble anywhere.

the swim inn always makes me feel uncomfortable on a fri or sat night.
What time was the fighting, I didn't see anything at 11:30 as I waited for the tram.

Fighting was about 9:30, short and sporadic but enough to make me feel on edge. I really dont like violence, even though Ive played rugby for the past 10 years.

I've been on the end of West St violence before - got headbutted by a complete stranger in a quiet pub because the little yob thought I was a student (as if that's sufficient reason), probably because of my (non-Sheffield) accent - of course he hit me when I wasn't looking as he was sooo brave. The cops arrived while we were all still around, took my statement, then did absolutely NOTHING. The nutters were hanging around the door wating for us! It's the apathy of the police that leads to these situations being commonplace on roads like West St. Youthful high jinks they reckon, I call it vicious assault.

Originally posted by the_pikey
It's the apathy of the police that leads to these situations being commonplace on roads like West St. Youthful high jinks they reckon, I call it vicious assault.

Couldnt agree more

Originally posted by the_pikey
It's the apathy of the police that leads to these situations being commonplace on roads like West St. Youthful high jinks they reckon, I call it vicious assault.

Have you heard of the term "scum on scum"? I have. It's a term that I believe was coined by police officers and used to describe certain criminal offences, offences which are then not taken as seriously as others.

Crime can't crack itself.

Another reason why I rarely venture into pubs and clubs-
too many idiots and arseholes that cant handle alcohol and find it amusing to start violence.

And it makes it a whole lot worse with the new 24hr pub licensing laws as well- well done labour :(

The other year I was out on West Street having a meal & a few drinks etc. We were stood outside The Bedroom chatting; two blokes around mid twenties came upto me from behind and asked if I was a Wednesday fan?

I instictively said yes & just as I was turning around to see who was speaking to me I got punched repeadedly in the face! As I was stood there swaying too & fro, the guy started shouting to put the word around the BBC were in town & to watch my back!

The Saturday after, one of my mates was down West St & got a glass bottle smashed over his head for the same reason....

I have no qualms with people who want to go to football matches, arrange to meet like minded people before the game (as long as it's well away from the public) and smash the living daylights out of each other. That is their choice! However choosing to "assault" someone who does not wish to participate in this violence is just wrong.

Originally posted by SWFC00
I have no qualms with people who want to go to football matches, arrange to meet like minded people before the game (as long as it's well away from the public) and smash the living daylights out of each other.

I don't as long as they pay for any damage caused to any property and make their own way to a private hospital.

Originally posted by SWFC00
I have no qualms with people who want to go to football matches, arrange to meet like minded people before the game (as long as it's well away from the public) and smash the living daylights out of each other. That is their choice! However choosing to "assault" someone who does not wish to participate in this violence is just wrong. [/B]

Couldn't Agree With You More SWFC.

However,The Way I Look At It,West Street Serves A Good Purpose Of Keeping All The Hooligans On There And Away From The City Centre Pubs That I Frequent.

Ever Since West Street Became The "Place To Go",I Very Rarely See Any Trouble In Town.The Only Time I Have To Go Near West Street Is At Closing Time (For The Tram) When We Have To Walk Past All The West Streeters Going To Nightclubs.Luckily There's Always A Heavy Police Presence At That Time,So You Do Feel More Safer.

Might Sound A Bit Selfish,But No One Forces You To Go On West Street.There's Plenty Other City Centre Pubs,You Can Have A Drink In And Feel Safe.

And For The Record,Two Of My Regular Saturday Night Haunts,Don't Even Have Bouncers On The Door.:thumbsup:

I'll think you 'll find the time and money invested by the police has seen a dramatic reduction in violence in the city centre. The amount of banning orders in place also prohibit these people from being in or near the ground on matchdays as well as the city centre. It does not apply to internationals though, hence the flare up last night.
Someone starts fighting and its the police's fault "the police arrived far too late"? As for the statement they took, did that person point out the offender?

Might Sound A Bit Selfish,But No One Forces You To Go On West Street.There's Plenty Other City Centre Pubs,You Can Have A Drink In And Feel Safe.

I agree. But by the same token, no-one is going to force me to avoid West St through fear. I don't always drink around West St; I go various places around the City centre. I have been down West St on Friday's n Saturday's many times and not seen any violence!

However If I choose to enjoy a night out down there, I will...
Despite getting punched a good few times, me & the missus had a top night out & carried on enjoying ourselves after the incident... :P My girlfriend was really shaken up, but I found it flattering that the jealousy the idiots feel towards Sheffield's No"1 club run so deep as to attack followers of that particular club. (Without wanting to turn this thread into debating SWFC v SUFC) Sheffield Utd never have, or never will be feared on the football pitch, therefore the idiots that attach themselves to the club try to create fear by violence. :loopy:

These idiots justify what they do because of hatred...
Well I hate Sheffield United more than anything on earth. And for 90 minutes on derby day I hate their fans with a passion too. But I would never dream of walking around town looking to physically harm any of them!!

Originally posted by SWFC00
My girlfriend was really shaken up, but I found it flattering that the jealousy the idiots feel towards Sheffield's No"1 club run so deep as to attack followers of that particular club. (Without wanting to turn this thread into debating SWFC v SUFC) Sheffield Utd never have, or never will be feared on the football pitch, therefore the idiots that attach themselves to the club try to create fear by violence. :loopy:

These idiots justify what they do because of hatred...
Well I hate Sheffield United more than anything on earth. And for 90 minutes on derby day I hate their fans with a passion too. But I would never dream of walking around town looking to physically harm any of them!!

Whilst I can sympathise with you SWFC00 about finding trouble when you're not looking for it, it's comments like these that can show the narrow minded mentality of some football fans here in Sheffield. The bottom line here is that it is only a game. I agree that rivalry is healthy but using words like 'hate' and statements like the above just serve to stir up the idiots who latch onto football.

I've been a Wednesday fan for nearly 40 years and am totally against any type of football violence. Just like SWFC00 and many thousands of other Wednesday and United fans, I am from Sheffield, support Sheffield and am proud of being from Sheffield. I also have many, many friends and workmates from Sheffield. Do I 'hate' those Sheff Utd supporting mates when it comes to Sheffield derbies, football violence etc? NO! The rivalry shoud be about the banter, not which team has the biggest thug element.

SWFC00, I'm not deliberately trying to single you out on this subject, just trying to show that some of your comments only serve to perpetuate this remarkably stupid cycle of football hatred and violence.

Here's to a season of Wed/Utd derbies passing off in good spirits (though I doubt it). Cheers

:thumbsup:

Why for the love of god do we need to see the hooligan element STILL in football.

Its a ****ing game for gods sake- why do people get so wound up about it??

Why the need to go and act like complete arseholes around our beautiful city we live in because of one bad result?

I dont get it- someone please enlighten me further- why the need for violence?

Why the need for such hatred between Sheff Utd and Wednesday fans as well- I know they are rival clubs thats true- but shouldnt we put the fact that we have 2 decent clubs in sheffield first and be proud of that fact?

I would love to go and watch Sheff Wed vs Utd at Hillsborough or the Lane but I can see there is going to be violence galore unfortunately and it does sicken me when I think of all the kids that will go to see the match and have to watch the violence unfold- what sort of message does that instill in the kids?

That violence is acceptable?
It aint- in no shape or form in society.
Its not hard, its not big, its not clever.

And being caked in blood walking round proud of yourselves is just disgraceful.

They must have been the smaller element, the larger one doesn't tend to like doing it in public places.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Why for the love of god do we need to see the hooligan element STILL in football.

Its a ****ing game for gods sake- why do people get so wound up about it??

Why the need to go and act like complete arseholes around our beautiful city we live in because of one bad result?

I dont get it- someone please enlighten me further- why the need for violence?

Why the need for such hatred between Sheff Utd and Wednesday fans as well- I know they are rival clubs thats true- but shouldnt we put the fact that we have 2 decent clubs in sheffield first and be proud of that fact?

I would love to go and watch Sheff Wed vs Utd at Hillsborough or the Lane but I can see there is going to be violence galore unfortunately and it does sicken me when I think of all the kids that will go to see the match and have to watch the violence unfold- what sort of message does that instill in the kids?

That violence is acceptable?
It aint- in no shape or form in society.
Its not hard, its not big, its not clever.

And being caked in blood walking round proud of yourselves is just disgraceful.

and a very boring game at that :)

Originally posted by SWFC00


However If I choose to enjoy a night out down there, I will...
Despite getting punched a good few times, me & the missus had a top night out & carried on enjoying ourselves after the incident... :P My girlfriend was really shaken up, but I found it flattering that the jealousy the idiots feel towards Sheffield's No"1 club run so deep as to attack followers of that particular club. (Without wanting to turn this thread into debating SWFC v SUFC) Sheffield Utd never have, or never will be feared on the football pitch, therefore the idiots that attach themselves to the club try to create fear by violence. :loopy:

These idiots justify what they do because of hatred...
Well I hate Sheffield United more than anything on earth. And for 90 minutes on derby day I hate their fans with a passion too. But I would never dream of walking around town looking to physically harm any of them!!

The hooligans that gave you a slap probably have the exact same attitude as you have just displayed in your post SWFC00 :loopy:

I stopped going out down town a few years ago now. I got sick of seeing all the fighting or being drawn in to a fight for no good reason. Life's too short to worry about when the next beasting is coming :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Another reason why I rarely venture into pubs and clubs-
too many idiots and arseholes that cant handle alcohol and find it amusing to start violence.

And it makes it a whole lot worse with the new 24hr pub licensing laws as well- well done labour :(

For the record ANGELUS, no licensed premise (pub or club) in Sheffield applied for a 24 hour license.

I dont like to call any of the thugs football fans. None of them represent Sheff Wed or Utd.

The two teams are rivals and it is good fun to have banter but no more.

I'm sorry but IMO none of these attackare football related. They are just a bunch if mindless thugs using a club for excuse to cause violnece. If there wasn't football they'd still be there.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
A friend and I were discussing the 'problem' of footbal violence between 'well organised' groups of combatants or firms.

Since most of the hassle appears to be outside of the match, the solution is to let them fight in a controlled arena.

All football stadia could have large chainlink enclosures littered with cafe tables, scrapped cars, benches etc to make them feel at home. Anyone turning up at the match for a fight could go to their 'end' of the arena, sign a disclaimer, receive their complimentary bike chain, tetanus jab and antibiotics and wade in swinging.

My friend, who is a little more extreme on these matters, suggested not letting anyone out, and the last man standing gets a bullet. That way you've used up only one bullet, and got rid of tens, possibly hundreds, of people for whom violence is entertainment.

I say, that if people want to punch the crap out of each other, then that is their decision, but they should be able to do so in a way that does not negatively impact on the lives of others.

A sanctioned arena for this sort of activity might end up attracting bigger audiences than the game itself. The thing is that audience particpation could be active encouraged by distributing rocks and glass bottles to the people watching the fight, rather than the game.

There are few things more pitiful than grown men who are football hooligans. If it's 18 or 19 year olds I can understand it. It still can't be condoned, but lads are still quite immature at that age.

However, when you have 30 somethings or even 40 somethings doing it, that's when it becomes embarrassing. These grown men with receding hairlines and beer bellies most likely have kids of their own. How can you raise your kids to know right from wrong when every weekend you're getting p*ssed with your mates and then fighting with other p*ssed up middle-aged men. Poor sad pitiful wretches. :(

As Mr Skinner says:

"Geezers need excitement, if their lives dont provide then with this they incite violence, common sense, simple common sense."

what does your mate think about sports such as boxing phan?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vidster
[B]The hooligans that gave you a slap probably have the exact same attitude as you have just displayed in your post SWFC00 :loopy:

Agree!!! Agree!!!!

With an attitude like that your going to get slapped arent ya!

YA BIG MOOSE!!!!

Originally posted by Cyclone
what does your mate think about sports such as boxing phan?

Well, because you asked:

Since I posted that some months, even years ago, he's become completely obsessed with Muay Thai. I guess this proves the old adage that if you can't join them, beat them with pool cues.

I still think his idea has merit as a spectator sport, which would probably prove more successful than football. Keeping the sides matched on numbers would be the trickiest thing I think.

This thread documents some truly awful displays of behaviour. It's such a shame that social drinkers and football supporters alike can't handle their drink. I use the phrase 'handle their drink' because although they may be able to drink a lot these imbeciles can't drink without then going out and committing acts of violence and stupidity.

I rarely venture into Sheffield city centre for a night out [the main reason being I can't think of anywhere I'd actually like to go] and instead my circle of friends have dinner parties. Yes, we drink wine - sometimes quite a bit but we're all adults and drink for the enjoyment of the drink and not to get drunk. It's a much more civilised affair.

The binge-drinking disease that has gripped Britain is truly abhorrent. I was in Venice a couple of weeks ago and saw not one person drunk or acting in a drunken manner and yet they were all drinking wine, beer and spirits. Now why do you think that is? Too many British people have an anal attitude towards alcohol; "How much I can throw down my neck before I pass out".

Q: WHY? Seriously, WHY? Why can't you just have a few glasses of wine with friends and enjoy chatting, laughing and joking. Though I'm proud to be British - the drinking culture here is something I truly despise.

As a blue-blooded Tory I'm all for coming down hard on those who engage in such mindless acts and drink to excess. Instead of ASBOs let's hand out a few £1000 fines or some custodial sentences. Forget cautions - they just don't work. Someone needs to send a crystal clear signal to these idiots that this behaviour will not be tolerated and is completely unacceptable.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Its a ****ing game for gods sake- why do people get so wound up about it??


I think it's the thick people who get wound-up about it, the sensible people just see it as entertainment and a game, yeah it's sad if you lose but beating someone up won't change the score.

The wierd thing is that you very rarely see any trouble at a rugby or ice hockey matches, perhaps rugby/hockey fans are more intellectual.

Or, perhaps the violence on the ice/rugby pitch is enough to satisfy the audience, with football being such a big-girls game the audience don't have their blood-lust satisfied ?

Originally posted by JonJParr
As a blue-blooded Tory I'm all for coming down hard on those who engage in such mindless acts and drink to excess. Instead of ASBOs let's hand out a few £1000 fines or some custodial sentences. Forget cautions - they just don't work. Someone needs to send a crystal clear signal to these idiots that this behaviour will not be tolerated and is completely unacceptable.

While I totally agree that there is a lot of idiots that go out in the City Center not all actually intend to get "hammered"....sometimes it just happens. Whether it be because they didn't eat enough, or have been ill recently, there can be situations where your tolerance lowers dramatically.

I am sure that at some point in your live JonJParr that you have had a few too many and woken up rather ashamed of your behaviour (most of us have!)? I cant imagine you've been having nice dinner parties and drinking fine wine since you were 18??

Again, not that im condoning the hooligans that go out looking for trouble (aka losers) but not every drunk person in town should be tarred with the same brush thats all.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Why for the love of god do we need to see the hooligan element STILL in football.

Its a ****ing game for gods sake- why do people get so wound up about it??

Why the need to go and act like complete arseholes around our beautiful city we live in because of one bad result?

I dont get it- someone please enlighten me further- why the need for violence?


I think you don't get it because you're looking at the problem from slightly the wrong angle. So-called "football hooliganism" has little to do with the game of football. Hooligans were attracted to football matches in the 1970's (and earlier, although the upsurge in the 1970's was the most widespread and long-lasting) because at football matches hooligans could engage in violence on a mass scale on a regular basis with little or no chance of them being caught.

Before they latched on to football bank holiday weekends at the seaside were the favoured spots for mass fighting. Once CCTV was introduced at football grounds and increased the chances of hooligans getting caught they moved away from the major football grounds and instead caused trouble at smaller grounds or on the way to or from matches. Pubs have always been a popular haunt for hooligans but a few hooligans were reformed by rave culture, although the clampdown on rave culture led by a certain political party helped to nip that process in the bud and bring about the boom in the pub industry in the last decade which has made the various problems associated with excessive drinking much worse.

However, wherever the hooligans go, whatever they call themselves and whatever they call what they do the basic problem is that in this country there are a lot of people who cannot be trusted to behave themselves in public. That has been a problem for a very long time and few if any other countries have the same problem to anything like a similar extent.

Does this happen in other cities with two teams,ie Manchester,Liverpool,Nottingham etc.Or is it just Sheffield and is it purely down to football ?I don't think so.

It’s always nice to start a topic and see it take the form of an articulate and intelligent (mostly) discussion, thank you folks.

I am appalled to hear of people being randomly slapped. It is sad that as much as football and its true supporters try and distance themselves from these cretins, these cretins cling tighter to the 'in the name of my team mentality'. Whatever you may think that was what the violence on Saturday was about.

I did feel sad knowing many of them will have young children as I do; putting themselves at risk is hardly the right behaviour of adults with responsibility. I will however not let this behaviour dictate where I go and what I do in this fine city of ours. I feel tighter and savvier policing as well as continued education is the way ahead. If police vans were parked on West Street would this have happened? Are there such things as cricket/ rugby hooligans?

Originally posted by Ollie
While I totally agree that there is a lot of idiots that go out in the City Center not all actually intend to get "hammered"....sometimes it just happens. Whether it be because they didn't eat enough, or have been ill recently, there can be situations where your tolerance lowers dramatically.

I am sure that at some point in your live JonJParr that you have had a few too many and woken up rather ashamed of your behaviour (most of us have!)? I cant imagine you've been having nice dinner parties and drinking fine wine since you were 18??

Again, not that im condoning the hooligans that go out looking for trouble (aka losers) but not every drunk person in town should be tarred with the same brush thats all.

Happy to discuss this one with you Ollie. Firstly, if people were venturing out into the city centre for a night of drinking either on an empty stomach or following an illness I would have to question their common sense. Common sense dictates if you don't have food in your stomach the effects of alcohol are more pronounced and the same is true if you have recently been afflicted by an illness. It's not asking too much to request that people drink responsibly and employ a bit of common sense. If they don't then it's equally right that we should challenge them about their behaviour.

What you say about my own past experiences of alcohol is true also. I have woken up in the past with a thumping headache and feeling of nausea not only as a result of the alcohol but also because of my actions. However, the challenge I made in my previous post was towards those who commit acts of violence when having had too much to drink. I can safely say, hand on heart, that I've never become violent or assaulted anyone - ever. The worst of crimes is having vomited in the street but that was a long time ago and I've learnt my lesson.

You're correct I've not been having dinner parties since I was 18 but then again I've never really taken part in the binge drinking culture either. As someone whose hobby is wine tasting I constantly assess and manage my own relationship with alcohol to ensure that it's a healthy one. I suppose my main point in reply to you is that I feel people should be held accountable for their actions. One must realise that there are degrees of drunken behaviour ranging from people drinking too much and vomiting down a back alley to those who drink too much then go out and crack a glass bottle over someone's head. The two are totally different and the punishment must therefore fit the crime. For the individual who threw up we can probably say that the hangover is punishment enough. But for the individual who bottled someone in the street the authorities should be sending a clear message that this type of behaviour is totally unacceptable. My previous point was aimed at these types of idiots.

Having said this, I [personally] don't feel the need to drink to excess and still question people's motives for binge drinking. But that's another thread entirely.

:)

Originally posted by youwhatref
I dont like to call any of the thugs football fans. None of them represent Sheff Wed or Utd.

The two teams are rivals and it is good fun to have banter but no more.

I'm sorry but IMO none of these attackare football related. They are just a bunch if mindless thugs using a club for excuse to cause violnece. If there wasn't football they'd still be there.

Bang on! It doesn't matter where you live, there's always a certain element of nutcases who are attracted to violence. In Sheffield they will usually attach themselves to the "Football" culture, but if there weren't 2 high profile and established footy clubs in town they'd just find another excuse. Gang violence, sectarian violence, racist violence....all by the same savages with slightly different social factors affecting them.