As this discussion was started recently on an inappropriate thread (for which I apologise), perhaps we can discuss it here instead and gain information about each others' views on driving habits... And hopefully, in understanding them better, help each other on the roads.

I initially posted...

"...as a car-driver, can I point out to cyclists and motorcycle riders that when you're tailing behind us, positioned slightly to our nearside or offside, waiting to overtake or filtering in traffic... Please be aware that you may well fit neatly into our 'blind-spot' and be totally hidden from view. Compared to you, we have very restricted rear vision.

This also applies when we are pulling out and you're approaching us at right-angles, a quick glance by a driver to see if it's clear can mean that you're obscured by the screen pillar for that vital split-second, remember that you're a very small object when viewed head-on.

I'm not blaming the two-wheel rider... Obviously, the driver should look carefully to check that it's clear and not just glance sideways before pulling out..."

Those are some of the dangers that a car driver shoud be aware of... Just one point of view...

Following on about flashing lights which is mainly used to say thanks / let people out etc.

dsa 2005 theory test book says

A driver is flashing there headlights at you this means they are...........

warning you of your presence

As a motorcyclist currently nursing a couple of broken ribs, due to a dozy btch pulling out of a side street without even looking may I remind you that it is the responsibility of the driver to do things like check for oncoming traffic, and to check blind spots before manouvers.

Most motorcyclists, and probably cyclists are aware of their reduced visibility and take up defensive driving positions - it would be nice if most drivers did things like check blind spots, and have more that 'split-second' glances before pulling out. Is a 'whole-second' glance really too much to ask for?

Originally posted by f_g
Following on about flashing lights which is mainly used to say thanks / let people out etc.

dsa 2005 theory test book says

A driver is flashing there headlights at you this means they are...........

warning you of your presence


"warning you of your presence" to me means the opposite of what people use it for.


Eg.

Drivers driving towards each other on a road and one driver is turning right, accross the others path, he stops and indicates, the driver coming towards him flashes his lights. Now we would all think that he is slowing down and letting the driver turn right.

But, according to the highway code he is "warning him of his presence", and therefore means, DON'T go, be aware of my prescence i'm driving past you!.

As the Highway Code states ..."Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there." It's obviously a very grey area, the Code doesn't tell you what it DOES mean, as there are many commonly-used interpretations, it tells you what you should only use it for...

As has been said by oasismark, using it only as instructed in the H.C. would lead to a lot of confusion!

Drivers driving towards each other on a road and one driver is turning right, accross the others path, he stops and indicates, the driver coming towards him flashes his lights. Now we would all think that he is slowing down and letting the driver turn right.

And with alot a of people who have just passed there test, or are from another country and may have only read the highway code/ theory tests and not had much experiance of british roads they might flash there lights to warn you and not to let you out so might be best to wait till they have stopped or just let them go.

As a biker i have my headlights on at all times (as standard on my bike) which hopefully will help me be seen.

Originally posted by floyd77
As a motorcyclist currently nursing a couple of broken ribs, due to a dozy btch pulling out of a side street without even looking may I remind you that it is the responsibility of the driver to do things like check for oncoming traffic, and to check blind spots before manouvers.

Most motorcyclists, and probably cyclists are aware of their reduced visibility and take up defensive driving positions - it would be nice if most drivers did things like check blind spots, and have more that 'split-second' glances before pulling out. Is a 'whole-second' glance really too much to ask for?
You are right, it IS the motorists responsibility to check carefully before pulling out but far too many check quickly for cars, not two-wheelers, they are a much smaller object to see at a glance.

Many motorcyclists are now driving with headlight(s) on in the daytime, that helps us greatly in being aware you.

EDIT:
oops! Didn't read your post before posting mine, f_g!

can you think of any other things a biker could be more visable to a car driver like yourself?

Originally posted by f_g
can you think of any other things a biker could be more visable to a car driver like yourself?
There are a couple of things that motorcyclists could do to be more visible I think...

The obvious one is to wear bright clothing with reflective tabs, as most do now...

Perhaps a less obvious one is when following a car, to position themselves as another car would, directly behind, where they're clearly visible in the rear-view mirror, not off to one side as many do.

to be in your blindspot a motorcycle would need to be past the rear of your car, most blindspots are at about 3/4 the length of the car towards the rear and a couple of metres out to the side.

Originally posted by Pseudonym
There are a couple of things that motorcyclists could do to be more visible I think...

The obvious one is to wear bright clothing with reflective tabs, as most do now...

Perhaps a less obvious one is when following a car, to position themselves as another car would, directly behind, where they're clearly visible in the rear-view mirror, not off to one side as many do.

So can we now expect cars to be covered in reflective tabs, and resprayed in a luminous yellow colour? :)

I thought not!

I guess it will just remain the case that bikers have to continue to be the better road users by always thinking one step ahead of the car driver. (That is that most car drivers have an inability to turn their heads more than 30 degrees)

Originally posted by Cyclone
to be in your blindspot a motorcycle would need to be past the rear of your car, most blindspots are at about 3/4 the length of the car towards the rear and a couple of metres out to the side.
I disagree, the rear screen-pillars obscure a considerable area and if the wing-mirrors are set to see traffic in the offside or nearside lanes, which I estimate most are, there's a strip on each side in which a two-wheeler can be totally invisible to the driver. If they're following close behind and to one side it's comparatively easy to slot into this space.

I have my wing-mirrors set so that I can still see a tiny slivver of my bodywork on each side, which narrows the blind-spot to the absolute minimum yet I've still been surprised by being overtaken by a bike that I hadn't realised was so close to me.

Admittedly they were going at a ridiculously high speed and from first appearing as a dot in the distance in the rear-view mirror, were past me and gone in a flash... But I hadn't realised that I was about to be overtaken until it had already happened, they closed-up a lot quicker than I expected and suddenly shot past from out of my blind-spot.

Originally posted by chris1975
So can we now expect cars to be covered in reflective tabs, and resprayed in a luminous yellow colour? :)

I thought not!
Hardly, we're talking about the fact that the biker needs to be visible, being a much smaller object to spot, not the car... We're a whole lot bigger and easier to see and represent far more of a threat to you than you do to us... Ask Floyd77 what injuries the driver suffered that he went into the side of....

Originally posted by chris1975
...I guess it will just remain the case that bikers have to continue to be the better road users.
Hopefully, by understanding what each of us needs the other to do, we can ALL be better road-users! ;)

That's the whole idea of this thread, not to snipe at each other. I want to hear in what ways the motorist can make it safer for you and vice-versa... I've some ideas of how to go about it but it's a hell of a long time since I rode a motorbike!

Originally posted by Pseudonym
I disagree, the rear screen-pillars obscure a considerable area and if the wing-mirrors are set to see traffic in the offside or nearside lanes, which I estimate most are, there's a strip on each side in which a two-wheeler can be totally invisible to the driver. If they're following close behind and to one side it's comparatively easy to slot into this space.

I have my wing-mirrors set so that I can still see a tiny slivver of my bodywork on each side, which narrows the blind-spot to the absolute minimum yet I've still been surprised by being overtaken by a bike that I hadn't realised was so close to me.

Admittedly they were going at a ridiculously high speed and from first appearing as a dot in the distance in the rear-view mirror, were past me and gone in a flash... But I hadn't realised that I was about to be overtaken until it had already happened, they closed-up a lot quicker than I expected and suddenly shot past from out of my blind-spot.

it's possible for a car to hide in my blind spot, so I pretty much always glance over my shoulder before changing lanes, there's no chance that i'll hit a car or a bike that way.

Originally posted by Cyclone
it's possible for a car to hide in my blind spot, so I pretty much always glance over my shoulder before changing lanes, there's no chance that i'll hit a car or a bike that way.

Which is the correct thing to do. If you cant see an area then you're not looking properly.

If you have a blind spot that doesnt mean you just pull out anyway and hope for the best!

Whilst I agree with Floyd77 that to deliberately cause a collision is a criminal act, I didn't start this thread so that motorists and two-wheeler riders could call each other names...

The idea was to exchange views of each others driving habits and in doing so, help each of us to understand ways in which we can help one another, to our mutual advantage... Not to shout at each other from opposite sides of the fence!

i think if a car driver rode a bike for a day or got in there car thinking like there on a bike then that might improve there driving.

Just forget about the metal around you, a slight clip could see you thrown over the car or into a moving car.

Originally posted by f_g
i think if a car driver rode a bike for a day or got in there car thinking like there on a bike then that might improve there driving.

Just forget about the metal around you, a slight clip could see you thrown over the car or into a moving car.

Or bikers drive a car for a day?

Mod Note:

Please keep this on topic, and resist letting it slide into petty name calling / personal abuse

Originally posted by f_g
i think if a car driver rode a bike for a day or got in there car thinking like there on a bike then that might improve there driving.

Just forget about the metal around you, a slight clip could see you thrown over the car or into a moving car.
You're right f_g, a lot of car drivers that have never used a bike don't realise just how vulnerable they are...

On the other hand, there are more than a few bike-riders that don't seem to realise this either! :(

Originally posted by rooby_roo
Or bikers drive a car for a day?

Most bikers also drive cars. Better than you obviously.

Originally posted by floyd77
Most bikers also drive cars. Better than you obviously.

Well you being the bestest of the best are well placed to make that judgement. You enthrall me. I love you. I wish I was you.

Originally posted by rooby_roo
Or bikers drive a car for a day?

it's a rare bike rider that doesn't also drive a car.

Originally posted by rooby_roo
Well you being the bestest of the best are well placed to make that judgement. You enthrall me. I love you. I wish I was you.

can you actually add anything constructive apart from the fact that you clearly have no tolerance or respect for others.

Originally posted by floyd77
Most bikers also drive cars...
That may well be true... and something which hadn't ocurred to me.

I'd like some information on the capabilities of modern bikes, about which I know nothing... When I rode a motorbike, to stop, I had to apply the front brake fractionally before the rear brake, and balance the pressure on each to avoid a skid... Is this still the case?

How does a modern bikes stopping-distance compare to that of a car?

How good is your visiblity, particularly your peripheral vision, when wearing a full-face helmet?

When it rains, does that limit your vision appreciably?

[MOD NOTE] Thread now closed due to childish name calling