Not happy with virgin gym, signed up to a contract (12 months diamond membership £39 a month), within a month of joining i had my offer accepted on a house, which was at the other side of town (over 10 miles)i informed the gym and was told that i coulndnt get out of contract but could freeze it at £7 a month, i wrote in explaining that i had now moved away and could not get to the gym (unless there was a fab bus service which went from stocksbridge to abbeydale road in less than an hour!) i recieved a letter some time after telling me that i should consider the concequences of such a lifestyle change and no! we wont release you from the contract.
i havent been for an induction and they havent got my picture put on the system.

i just want out!!

any suggestions to my dilemma? or does any one know any good small print that i can use against them or does any one else have same problem?

i accept that i should have questioned this before i signed.

Originally posted by sazaboo

i just want out!!

any suggestions to my dilemma? or does any one know any good small print that i can use against them or does any one else have same problem?


I don't think that there will be a way out. Sorry.

Perhaps they'd let you transfer the membership to a friend's name?

Isn't there a cooling off period that you can claim under? There usually is for contracts that you sign up for.

Cancel your direct debit and don't give em your fowarding address. ;)

I agree with Classsic Rock, merely cancel the direct debit. I had a membership at a similar gym, but as circumstances do change i was unable to go after a month of membership.

I cancelled the direct debit. After a while they sent me some threatening letters which i threw in the bin. After a couple of months of this they got bored chasing me and i havnt heard from them since.

Buffy, they have already got my new address (der) and told me that they will get bailiffs onto me straight away! i have had these kind of threats before but i rally dont want any blacklisting business at my new gaff (dont think hubby would be too pleased either!)

Check the contract, is there a cooling off period? There usually is in law.
Have you actually used the facilities yet?

You could try bypassing your local branch, who evidently are 'yes' men and go to customer services at the head office and speak to them, rather than write.....usually talking to someone gets better results. Just a thought.

Alternatively, if they write to you at your new address, send it back with 'not known at this address on it'. :thumbsup:

I think if you signed-up for a special rate that you only get for a 12 month contract then you're stuck with it. If you had got a normal (but more expensive) membership you could have cancelled at any time.

Hi Saza

How truly understanding of them.......the tight fisted money grubbing twonks!

Go and get that big handsome husband of yours to stand outside wearing a t-shirt that says 'I use a rival gym' :D

If there's no cooling off period or you've exceeded it then tell them you're pregnant and you can't use the facilities - they might ask for a letter of proof tho..... time to make friends with your doctor :)

Having said that they are well within their rights to ask you for the money - you did sign a contract after all.

Originally posted by Splodge_CRB
HHow truly understanding of them.......the tight fisted money grubbing twonks!


I think the tight fisted one is the one who went for the yearly contract because it's cheaper than a regular membership.

it seemed like the better option as the other type of membership could go up, it is more about the attitude than anything else, i did ring the 'customer services' and posed as a new customer and asked what i could do to get out of the contract, i was told that the only circumstances would be to be 'ill' or to have moved away?
i didnt tell any lies but im sure i could come up with a real soppy heart breaker about being forced onto the streets as a child and living off scaps untill a kind family gave me shelter one bitterly cold xmas eve and brought me up as one of their own, tragically a generic disease killed them all and i was the only survivor. they had left me nothing in the will but a house in stocksbridge that i had to live in to qualify for the rest of the inheritance which would be a massive donation to a childrens hospice, but until then i just have a pittance to get by on and cant afford to pay £39 for a big corporate gym who havent been concerened that i havent had my induction, just that the £7 freeze fee gets paid..........so would be very grateful if the membership could be cancelled?
there is also the question of getting myself banned? would they still want the rest of the fees?

I'll tell what to do:

Go into the gym and ask to speak to the manager, explain what has happened as nicely as you can - apologise for the inconvenience and basically plead for him to help you out this once - tell him you will even join up again after all the 'new house' business has been sorted out.

If he/she doesn't sway, thank them for being so understanding - tell them you will speak to the local media about it and will be back in touch. The last thing they want is bad publicity. Say you'll write to the 'Star' etc.

Then after all the hoo-hah is over and you're settled, join Fitness Unlimited, at least it's only a 3 month contract with them and no other hidden payments and fantastic venues.

Hope it all works out for you.:thumbsup:

Originally posted by sazaboo
there is also the question of getting myself banned? would they still want the rest of the fees?

Do you know there might be some mileage in that idea

:D

Originally posted by nick2
I think the tight fisted one is the one who went for the yearly contract because it's cheaper than a regular membership.

I can't for the life of me understand why you didn't speak up for yourself in Cole Bros, Nick! :rolleyes:


Saza, explain to them you have moved away and due to distance and work commitments you can no longer use their facilities. Take it to the top and ask them what their good will gesture policy is for extenuating circumstances.....after all, it would be in their favour not to lose you as a future customer?

Originally posted by Lestat
Say you'll write to the 'Star'

That'll scare them, being sandwiched between a 3 page article about someones cat going missing and a story about some old dear tripping over a loose paving stone in town.

Personally I wouldn't have joined a gym if I was planning to move out of the area.

dont know if you have ever been a first time buyer in sheffield on a budget? it is very difficult to find what you want where you want it and for a price you can afford, some people/first time buyers are being pushed out of the city due to over priced city living, i didnt 'plan' to move that far away but an opportunity came up and i didnt want to miss it, i cant see richard branson opening up a virgin gym in stocksbridge, or the leisure centre in stocksbridge letting me use my membership there.
(its the only problem i have with living where i do, the dj in the royal oak on a sat night is really tasty!)

i do know that if you breach membership rules then your membership is terminated, i wonder if the direct debits can be terminated aswell,
maybe time to see if my puppy dog is any good at yoga?

Originally posted by sazaboo

(its the only problem i have with living where i do, the dj in the royal oak on a sat night is really tasty!)


:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

Originally posted by sazaboo
i cant see richard branson opening up a virgin gym in stocksbridge, or the leisure centre in stocksbridge letting me use my membership there.


On the plus side Stocksbridge has a lower crime rate than some of the "posh" areas in Sheffield so you will be safe to jog around the streets instead :)

Originally posted by sazaboo
(its the only problem i have with living where i do, the dj in the royal oak on a sat night is really tasty!)




:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:



I :love: you!

calm yourself buffy! if you rock you are tasty in my book!!so that means you too!!!

i could go jogging around stocksbridge, im just trying to get my puppy used to walking!

cancelling your direct debit and forgetting about it is a really bad idea, they credit checked you when you signed up and they will refer you to a debt collecter which will also mean bad credit for you.....and fees. not telling them your address obviously wouldn't work because otherwise we'd all be doing it.

As far as i'm aware, by law all contracts come with a 14day cooling off period and they must inform you of this, so your only chance is to claim they did not inform you "enough"!

In my opinion Virgin do not owe you any favours, yes...they are a massive company...well done them

my advice is to pay it and think of it as a very expensive lesson

.....also, sorry to sound rude but why would you enter into a contract with a gym and make offers on houses at the other side of town?

Have you read all the small print on the reverse of the contract paper you signed?

If you have not had an induction or had a photo done could you sell on the membership to a friend/colleague/family?

Try and speak to the manager, she, I am sure will be as helpful as she can be, particularly if you mention your access to 15k+ people on the Sheffield forum and she knows how effective word-of mouth can be, and you would love to let people know how wonderful they are ....

advertise your membership & sell it. I used to work in a gym, and a contract's a contract! But they were ok with transferring memberships.

If you pm me - I may have a solution to this problem - Cant pm you as a new user

http://www.thestar.co.uk/action/Virgin-Gym-fixes-it-for.3183326.jp

I used to be a member of Virgin and initially took out Diamond membership (1 year contract) but after the first year I changed over to monthly membership as there was only a difference of about £5 a month and it was a lot better, more flexible. I would never again get tied in to any contract even if it was the cheaper option, you just never know how your circumstances are going to change.

I had a similar experience with Sam Jones a couuple of years back - t'd moved away from the area and didn't wanna pay them £45 a month for the remaining 4 months of the contract - i just lied to them and told them that the contract terms were not clearly stated when i signed up and how they were so eager to sign me up they didn't fully explain what i was signing up to.

They eventually released me from the contract with a certain air of "but don't ever think of signing up here again"

Just recently signed up to Fitness First nr Farm Rd and it's ace! Nice and cheap and not too crowded!

A question for the people knocking the gyms.

When you signed up, were you not aware that you had to pay monthly? If you were aware of this then why are you complaining?

When you buy a car, if you buy an exspensive one most people get it on credit. So for example, if I choose to purchase a car in January, and the paymeny terms were for 60 months, I would expect to pay a fee for 60 months.

If I chose to stop using the car after 2 months, do I then have the right to cancel the direct debit, simply because I don't use it? NO.... so what gives you the right to cancel your gym fees just because you suddenly decide you don't want to do it?

I've been a member at virgin gym 3 seperate times, every time I wanted out I just cancelled the direct debit as it was far easier than arguing my way out leaving. They sent me about 2 or 3 letters saying I was in breach of contract blah blah but then left it at that.

A question for the people knocking the gyms.

When you signed up, were you not aware that you had to pay monthly? If you were aware of this then why are you complaining?

When you buy a car, if you buy an exspensive one most people get it on credit. So for example, if I choose to purchase a car in January, and the paymeny terms were for 60 months, I would expect to pay a fee for 60 months.

If I chose to stop using the car after 2 months, do I then have the right to cancel the direct debit, simply because I don't use it? NO.... so what gives you the right to cancel your gym fees just because you suddenly decide you don't want to do it?

The problem with Virgin Gyms is well documented and has been on Watchdog. Admittedly, those who try to cancel within the 12 months of their contract haven't got a leg to stand on, but if they do not cancel the membership in person at one of the gyms (where they are given the hard sell to stick with it) it automatically rolls over and they are tied into yet another 12 month contract.

A question for the people knocking the gyms.

When you signed up, were you not aware that you had to pay monthly? If you were aware of this then why are you complaining?

When you buy a car, if you buy an exspensive one most people get it on credit. So for example, if I choose to purchase a car in January, and the paymeny terms were for 60 months, I would expect to pay a fee for 60 months.

If I chose to stop using the car after 2 months, do I then have the right to cancel the direct debit, simply because I don't use it? NO.... so what gives you the right to cancel your gym fees just because you suddenly decide you don't want to do it?

Sadly it just shows people always want the easy way out on their own terms.

A contract is a contract .. you signed up for it, you pay up for it.

Businesses only give in due to the legal costs they would be forced to pay in order to retrieve the funds owed (in general I guess it would probably cost them more to recover the debt than the actual debt itself).

The same goes for people with parking fines, speeding tickets etc. no-one takes responsibility for their actions. Like "Oooh I've been caught speeding, how do I wriggle out of this?" - you've been caught, just pay up.

If someone lost their job, then they shouldn't have entered into a contract without having the funds available to pay the debt (the same applies to other contracts such as mortgages, loans etc.) - people are too quick to take up offers, but want to back out when it suits them.

If you signed a contract and don't want to pay up then tough - have some balls and take your responsibilities seriously. It was your choice to move, so it's your fault for moving away from the gym IMO so just pay up and shut up.

The problem with Virgin Gyms is well documented and has been on Watchdog. Admittedly, those who try to cancel within the 12 months of their contract haven't got a leg to stand on, but if they do not cancel the membership in person at one of the gyms (where they are given the hard sell to stick with it) it automatically rolls over and they are tied into yet another 12 month contract.



So why does Virgin have to be dragged onto watchdog? what are they doing wrong?

Are people unaware they are signing up to a contract?

HOw many of you who are moaning would support you local circuuit training class/fitness class in your local church halls? not many.........thats what happens, the local clubs shut down, the big gyms spring up in their place, and the whack the prices up.

The fact is, most people decide to get fit over xmas, sign up to the gym in January and by mid february 80% of these people would stop training. Its a fact, if gyms did pay as you train most would be out of business by February.

So stop moaning about how Greens, Virgin etc.... are such bad businesses, you signed up to a contract (which you know full well will roll over after 12 months), stop blaming other people, stop claiming you been mis sold and accept YOU made the mistake.

Try supporting the local class in your church hall.

erm - after the initial 12 month contract - then it should trnasfer to a monthly contract unless they inform - it would be highly illegal of them to place you on another 12 month contract without your signature!

www.bootshealthinsurance.com/

http://insurance.pruhealth.co.uk/uk/prudential/nosessionrequired/q2a/offers/bts_gym_enhance_price.jhtml

Can't you just freeze it then cancel in writing, most accept written concelation and it takes 3 months!

The reason it ends up on Watchdog is because many people consider the hard-sell and 12 month 'roll-over' contracts to be unethical.

They find the notion of gym businesses which are financed, in large part, by people who aren't actually training there anymore, but are tied to paying by direct debit and threats of bailiffs, to be unethical.

Let's face it, few people would actually have signed the contract if they realised they would have, to cancell it, to appear in person at the gym in a years time from now.

If gyms don't like that, then I'd suggest they make their small-print a bit bigger and their contracts less confusing and, instead of hiring so many sales-people who specialise in deception, hire genuinely customer-focused staff whose priority is in ensuring that clients understand exactly what they're signing up to.

That's just my view- if you don't like it, then fair enough, but, evryone has a right to judge for themselves what is good business and what is a scam and, act accordingly (eg by contacting Watchdog).

sazaboo- good luck with sorting this out- it's good to see there are still people who don't just lie down and take this kind of crap from these scamsters.

I would suggest caution in cancelling your direct debit- there is a risk of bad credit and trouble with bailiffs.

I do recommend though, getting in touch with the Star and any other forms of publicity, if only to perform the useful public service of opening everyones eyes to the tactics of these gyms.

They survive only by taking advantage of the naive- spreading the word is a good way to help others being conned.

If, as someone has mentioned, Watchdog are already looking into this, why not contact them and add your voice- they may even be able to direct you to someone who can tell you if there's any way out of the contract.

Good luck.

sazaboo- good luck with sorting this out- it's good to see there are still people who don't just lie down and take this kind of crap from these scamsters.
I would suggest caution in cancelling your direct debit- there is a risk of bad credit and trouble with bailiffs.

I do recommend though, getting in touch with the Star and any other forms of publicity, if only to perform the useful public service of opening everyones eyes to the tactics of these gyms.

They survive only by taking advantage of the naive- spreading the word is a good way to help others being conned.

If, as someone has mentioned, Watchdog are already looking into this, why not contact them and add your voice- they may even be able to direct you to someone who can tell you if there's any way out of the contract.

Good luck.

Just how are they 'scamsters' ?! :huh:

They offered a reduced price deal for gym membership for a 12 month period. The OP agreed to this offer and signed up. The OP now wants to back out, how is that Virgin's fault? it is certainly no 'scam', it was a contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract), why should they be the ones to tear it up and allow the OP to go on their merry way? afterall, they've lost money if they do (they could have charged the OP the standard rate).

If the OP didn't want a 12 month contract, why sign up for it? ....... oh I know, because it was cheaper!! :loopy:

As I've said before, people are quick to go for things when it suits them, but go off on one when it no longer suits them...!

Idiot.

Just how are they 'scamsters' ?! :huh:

They offered a reduced price deal for gym membership for a 12 month period........quick to go for things when it suits them, but go off on one when it no longer suits them...!

Idiot.

I like your signature- rare to see such self-deprecating honesty on an internet forum :)


The reason I called them 'scamsters' are-

1. their clients are signing contracts which they don't seem to understand the consequences of- I think that will be due, in part, to the contracts being typically confusing, full of small print and virtually undecipherable by anyone but a lawyer with a couple of hours reading time on their hands

(I suspect as well, that the salesperson wouldn't have gone out of their way to clarify the consequences of the contract in a way the client could understand)

2. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service needs to be employing professional 'salespeople' to explain their services to potential clients

3. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service should be receiving a substantial portion of it's upkeep from clients who no longer train there, yet are obliged to keep paying due to a direct debit, threats of bailiffs and the fact they signed a contract they didn't understand

4. I like the term 'scamsters'- it sounds like hamsters and it could catch on :)

Scamster n a business person who, while not exactly breaking any laws, employs deception to elicit funds from the naive

(don't bother looking in the dictionary- I made it up)

sazaboo- good luck with sorting this out- it's good to see there are still people who don't just lie down and take this kind of crap from these scamsters.

I would suggest caution in cancelling your direct debit- there is a risk of bad credit and trouble with bailiffs.

I do recommend though, getting in touch with the Star and any other forms of publicity, if only to perform the useful public service of opening everyones eyes to the tactics of these gyms.

They survive only by taking advantage of the naive- spreading the word is a good way to help others being conned.

If, as someone has mentioned, Watchdog are already looking into this, why not contact them and add your voice- they may even be able to direct you to someone who can tell you if there's any way out of the contract.

Good luck.




So lets get this right.

If I went to a supermarket and bought some apples, and decided not to eat them, could I in 3 months time claim the apples have gone off and demand my money back becuase I chose not to eat them?


don't just lie down and take this kind of crap from these scamsters.
Sorry but why are gyms scamsters? they are legitimate businesses



They survive only by taking advantage of the naive- spreading the word is a good way to help others being conned.
So are people who sign up for gyms unable to read? its clear in their literature that when you sign up, there is often a joining fee, plus a contract for 12 months.

The tactics of these gyms?
How many of these moaners "The I've been conned brigade" support their local class in a church hall? none, most sign up in January as a new years resolution, and by the midlle of February most give up. I believe the term "6 week wonders is used in the trade"

I like your signature- rare to see such self-deprecating honesty on an internet forum :)


The reason I called them 'scamsters' are-

1. their clients are signing contracts which they don't seem to understand the consequences of- I think that will be due, in part, to the contracts being typically confusing, full of small print and virtually undecipherable by anyone but a lawyer with a couple of hours reading time on their hands

(I suspect as well, that the salesperson wouldn't have gone out of their way to clarify the consequences of the contract in a way the client could understand)

2. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service needs to be employing professional 'salespeople' to explain their services to potential clients

3. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service should be receiving a substantial portion of it's upkeep from clients who no longer train there, yet are obliged to keep paying due to a direct debit, threats of bailiffs and the fact they signed a contract they didn't understand

4. I like the term 'scamsters'- it sounds like hamsters and it could catch on :)

Scamster n a business person who, while not exactly breaking any laws, employs deception to elicit funds from the naive

(don't bother looking in the dictionary- I made it up)



1. their clients are signing contracts which they don't seem to understand the consequences of- I think that will be due, in part, to the contracts being typically confusing, full of small print and virtually undecipherable by anyone but a lawyer with a couple of hours reading time on their hands


Absolute nonsense, its clear if you sign up to a 12 month contract, you pay for 12 months. Have you ever tried to purchase a car over 36 months, and then decided after 3 months, you no longer wish to carry on paying? it wouldn't happen.



2. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service needs to be employing professional 'salespeople' to explain their services to potential clients
So how would they promote their business without effective salespeople?



3. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service should be receiving a substantial portion of it's upkeep from clients who no longer train there, yet are obliged to keep paying due to a direct debit, threats of bailiffs and the fact they signed a contract they didn't understand
These people have chosen to no longer train, that is not the gyms fault. The truth is, gyms could not survive with the very small percentage of hardcore fitness freaks who train 3 or 4 times per week.

Lets also be right, if every paying member attended once a week, no one would ever be able to get on any equipment, especially with the fat hippos, who spend 10 minutes on each peace of equiment, simply catching their breath


4. I like the term 'scamsters'- it sounds like hamsters and it could catch on :)
Its also very untrue.

Direct Kitchens installed me a Kitchen last year, does that mean I got conned, after all, I paid them my hard earned money

Not happy with virgin gym, signed up to a contract (12 months diamond membership £39 a month), within a month of joining i had my offer accepted on a house, which was at the other side of town (over 10 miles)i informed the gym and was told that i coulndnt get out of contract but could freeze it at £7 a month, i wrote in explaining that i had now moved away and could not get to the gym (unless there was a fab bus service which went from stocksbridge to abbeydale road in less than an hour!) i recieved a letter some time after telling me that i should consider the concequences of such a lifestyle change and no! we wont release you from the contract.
i havent been for an induction and they havent got my picture put on the system.

i just want out!!

any suggestions to my dilemma? or does any one know any good small print that i can use against them or does any one else have same problem?

i accept that i should have questioned this before i signed.

Why did u move to Stocksbridge??

1. their clients are signing contracts which they don't seem to understand the consequences of- I think that will be due, in part, to the contracts being typically confusing, full of small print and virtually undecipherable by anyone but a lawyer with a couple of hours reading time on their hands


Absolute nonsense, its clear if you sign up to a 12 month contract, you pay for 12 months. Have you ever tried to purchase a car over 36 months, and then decided after 3 months, you no longer wish to carry on paying? it wouldn't happen.


It isn't common practice for contracts to roll over - once outside the minimum period you can usually cancel at any time thereafter subject to a notice period. This is what is hidden and confusing, not the initial 12 month minimum term.

going crazy posted to wrong topic

2. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service needs to be employing professional 'salespeople' to explain their services to potential clients

So how would they promote their business without effective salespeople?

By being fully transparent when explaining costs, being 100% honest and open with thier clients and thereby building up a reputation for honesty, integrity, value and customer service, that puts them head-and-shoulders above every other city-center gym?

Seriously, they would stand out, as virtually all large commercial gyms currently put no emphasis whatsoever on integrity and honesty, prefering instead to build their business by taking clients money in advance, knowing full well that a high proportion of them will drop out of training within weeks.


3. I don't think a gym offering good value and honest customer service should be receiving a substantial portion of it's upkeep from clients who no longer train there, yet are obliged to keep paying due to a direct debit, threats of bailiffs and the fact they signed a contract they didn't understand
These people have chosen to no longer train, that is not the gyms fault. The truth is, gyms could not survive with the very small percentage of hardcore fitness freaks who train 3 or 4 times per week.

Lets also be right, if every paying member attended once a week, no one would ever be able to get on any equipment, especially with the fat hippos, who spend 10 minutes on each peace of equiment, simply catching their breath

Oh- that's OK then: it didn't occur to me that if clients actually turned up for the sessions they'd paid for, that they wouldn't fit in the gym. Now you've pointed it out, i guess that totally justifies ripping them off :)

Every successful con is based on taking advantage of human gullibility- every victim of every con chose to hand over their cash.

Every confused pensioner who's handed over their life savings to a conman/women, chose to do so.

Just because a client chose to sign the contract that has obliged them to continue paying for gym sessions they no longer want, does not mean that they haven't been conned.



4. I like the term 'scamsters'- it sounds like hamsters and it could catch on :)
Its also very untrue.

Direct Kitchens installed me a Kitchen last year, does that mean I got conned, after all, I paid them my hard earned money



You paid money, you got a kitchen: sounds reasonable enough- I think you can relax, it doesn't sound like you were conned :)

I've got to say though, I'm a little dissapointed that someone so supportive of the marketing techniques of commercial gyms, would have bought from a company that did something so old-fashioned as offering a decent product for a single, one-off exchange of cash!

Couldn't you have found a company that insisted on you signing a contract committing you to update your kitchen, with them, yearly, for the rest of your life?

Preferably a long, difficult to comprehend contract, 'explained' to you by professional salesperson.

After all, business is tough in the kitchen industry, you can't expect them to be paying the bills simply by selling kitchens and leaving it at that :)

One Wheel Dave - sorry but you're being a complete prick...

Gym's are not con people. Yes it's a 12 month contract initially - so? So are mobile phones...

It's perfectly legit to sign people up on an initial 12 month contract. Would you sign up to a contacrt with, say, "Orange", take the free phone that came with it and then three months in cancel your direct debit and leg it with the phone? Of course you wouldn't!!

Advocating that Gym's are con-man is SO indicative of the blame culture of todays society! Never occured that its not the gym's fault - its the lazy ass people who buy something on a whim without considering the consequences and then expect to worm out of it

I must say - the £7 charge a month to freeze it IS unfair as is the rolling over into another 12 month contract, which as i've already said is illegal...

Bottom line is - it's not the gym's fault. You can't just walk out on contracts and not expect consequences.

(I know this sounds hypocritical having done exactly that with my precious Sam jones membership - however - they took into account that i'd had a previous membership there for 3 years and that i said i thought i was just re-opening my account NOT taking a 12 month contract out...)

Do not sign legal documents without throughly reading them first. If you are not given enough time to absorb the details of the contract, or are put under unbearable pressure, walk away. Having been there for a look around I agree that Virgin's contract and charges are a ripoff, which is precisely why I didn't join!

One Wheel Dave - sorry but you're being a complete prick...

:thumbsup:

Don't apologise :D

One Wheel Dave - sorry but you're being a complete prick...

That's constructive :)



Gym's are not con people. Yes it's a 12 month contract initially - so? So are mobile phones...


Yep... mobile contracts are another scam-based industry that can't shift their product without hard-sell tactics and deception



It's perfectly legit to sign people up on an initial 12 month contract. Would you sign up to a contacrt with, say, "Orange", take the free phone that came with it and then three months in cancel your direct debit and leg it with the phone? Of course you wouldn't!!

I agree fully that it's perfectly legal- many scams are legal; what makes them a scam is that they are dishonest or based on deception and trickery (eg contracts that are deliberatelty designed to misguide)



Advocating that Gym's are con-man is SO indicative of the blame culture of todays society! Never occured that its not the gym's fault - its the lazy ass people who buy something on a whim without considering the consequences and then expect to worm out of it

Again, i'll point out that conmen/women who target confused pensioners, can justify their actions in exactly the same way: if you're happy that they're justified, then so be it. Personally I think it's out-of-order, as is any industry whose approach is based on confusing it's clients (eg, gyms, mobile phone contracts etc)




I must say - the £7 charge a month to freeze it IS unfair as is the rolling over into another 12 month contract, which as i've already said is illegal...

Bottom line is - it's not the gym's fault. You can't just walk out on contracts and not expect consequences.

(I know this sounds hypocritical having done exactly that with my precious Sam jones membership - however - they took into account that i'd had a previous membership there for 3 years and that i said i thought i was just re-opening my account NOT taking a 12 month contract out...)

I'm not saying it's the gyms fault (they're as confuesed as anyone else)- just that their policies towards their clients are based on dishonesty.

I'm not sure what the scam is here. The OP knew she had signed up to a 12 month contract and Virgin are asking her to stick to it. Her circumstances have changed and it would be lovely if Virgin would let her out but they're being tough and sticking to the deal.

The 12 month bit is defo NOT part of the small print.

I guess hardball method of contract management allows them to forecast their income stream and carry on paying their staff's wages.

I too would want to get out of such a contract but once I'd exhausted all the possibilities I guess I'd give up.

If I felt a little unethical I might go to my GP and complain of back pain, maybe build up a short history of it, then present this evidence to the gym and use that as a get-out clause.

Well, given that legality and illegality are not what determines a 'scam' (scam means dishonest or trickery) and, applying that to a situation where-

a gym spokesperson's approach to a potential client, is-

1. to produce a contract, with the aid of legal experts and marketers, which, intentionally, is long, difficult to read and impossible, (for a non-legal expert) to understand the full consequences of
2. knowing full well that the client, statistically, is likely to cease training within weeks of signing the contract, yet, using all their powers of persuasion and provenly effective selling techniques, to get them to sign up anyway
3. knowing that the clinet will thereby be throwing away their cash on a service they likley will not be using
4. Applying the standard high pressure sales techniques to push the client into signing the contract on the spot, before they can go away to get the contract checked over

By referencing those points, perhaps you could explain how it's not a scam?

Dave - if the OP (or anyone who has signed up to it) had honoured their agreement to the 12 month contract, would you still say that the contract / offer was a con / scam?

:huh:

... I doubt it. So why should it be a con when the OP wants to back out of it?! :suspect:

If the shoe was on the other foot and Virgin wanted to end the contract part the way through people would be complaining left right and centre, saying I've agreed to a contract / monthly price and you must honour it etc. etc.

You can't have it both ways. There should not be 1 rule for the customer and a different rule for the business.

Here's another example: say you got a new mortgage for 5% APR fixed for 2 years (with a cost for leaving the contract early should you wish to do so), but after 2 months someone else had one for 2.5%APR. You shouldn't be able to just walk away scot free to the cheaper option just because it suddently suits you. The same should happen to the OP in this instance. If there is no "get out early" option (i.e. a fee) then they are honoured to pay the remaining monthly payments.

A contract is a contract.

As Requested:

1. to produce a contract, with the aid of legal experts and marketers, which, intentionally, is long, difficult to read and impossible, (for a non-legal expert) to understand the full consequences of

On the contract i just signed on the gym it says under point ONE: 12 month contract. So unless you can't read it's not that unfair and incase you're lazy, you don't even have to read all of it!

2. knowing full well that the client, statistically, is likely to cease training within weeks of signing the contract, yet, using all their powers of persuasion and provenly effective selling techniques, to get them to sign up anyway

So? Clients fault for lack of willpower. If all the people chose to go all the time the gym would have to build another gym and expand and it would be THERE problem. Fast Food joints hard dell their products knowing full well that statistics and harder fact prove you'll get fat! So? Responsibility of consumer not to over indulge

3. knowing that the clinet will thereby be throwing away their cash on a service they likley will not be using
Something that the Client needs to consider when signing - i can only say that fitness first made me very aware of the 12 month contract

4. Applying the standard high pressure sales techniques to push the client into signing the contract on the spot, before they can go away to get the contract checked over
True - welcome to the world of capitalism!

ONEWHEELDAVE......


What part of "12 month contract" is confusing? and why do you need to be a legal expert to work out that a "12 month contract" means you have signed up for a 12 month period?

sorry, help me out here onewheeldave.

Are you a troll? you poped up on another martial arts thread, and your views were bizarre

[QUOTE=onewheeldave;3342015]













QUOTE]




Seriously, they would stand out, as virtually all large commercial gyms currently put no emphasis whatsoever on integrity and honesty, prefering instead to build their business by taking clients money in advance, knowing full well that a high proportion of them will drop out of training within weeks.

Can gyms be blamed for that?


Every successful con is based on taking advantage of human gullibility- every victim of every con chose to hand over their cash.

Every confused pensioner who's handed over their life savings to a conman/women, chose to do so.

How on earth can gyms such as fitness first be likened to a conman tricking a pensioner? a contract is a contract, and surely if the contract says 12 months, unless you have the intelligence of a Tomato, then surely, you must be aware that 12 months is the duration of your membership



Just because a client chose to sign the contract that has obliged them to continue paying for gym sessions they no longer want, does not mean that they haven't been conned.

No, it generally happens when people have signed up in the new year to get fit, as a new years resolution, and then lose interest by mid february. In the trade, called "6 week wonders". It does not mean they have been conned,



I've got to say though, I'm a little dissapointed that someone so supportive of the marketing techniques of commercial gyms, would have bought from a company that did something so old-fashioned as offering a decent product for a single, one-off exchange of cash!

Sorry you lost me, if you purchase a product at a set price, and then decide not to use it, that does not mean the person buying the product has been conned.

If you bought food from a supermarket, and then didn't eat it, does that mean you were conned by the supermarket?

Let me say something in support of Dave as he's getting a bashing...

I have worked in this industry. It is not about fitness, not about customer service, it is about signing as many people up as possible to get as much money as possible.

Because it is a shiny gym people are not likely to question it. A gym this big must be right, and Richard Branson manages it?

No it is not right. Branson hardly has anything to do with it. Branson sets up companies and moves on, leaving them in charge of sales driven idiots who need high sales figures so they can so off at the next office party.

The terms of the contract are never clear and are never made clear. Each gym has a sales target and they have to hit it. Once gym I have seen (the one in question) once had a dartboard and a dildo in an office, and they had a 'mad 100' day when they had to sign up 100 new members. Every time someone got a 'sale' they had to throw the dildo at the dartboard. This is the world of sales - talk a load of rubbish so that you get to throw a dildo at a dartboard.

There are issues with the said gym about overcrowding. Many people can't get onto machines at busy times or into classes. That is something they missed off the induction talk.

If someone was to go through the contract I am sure there would be some loophole to get out of a 12 month contract.

Is it a scam. No. It is a very unethical way to do business with very little morals. People have got to start questionning how they do business for anything to change.

Let me say something in support of Dave as he's getting a bashing...

I have worked in this industry. It is not about fitness, not about customer service, it is about signing as many people up as possible to get as much money as possible.

Because it is a shiny gym people are not likely to question it. A gym this big must be right, and Richard Branson manages it?

No it is not right. Branson hardly has anything to do with it. Branson sets up companies and moves on, leaving them in charge of sales driven idiots who need high sales figures so they can so off at the next office party.

The terms of the contract are never clear and are never made clear. Each gym has a sales target and they have to hit it. Once gym I have seen (the one in question) once had a dartboard and a dildo in an office, and they had a 'mad 100' day when they had to sign up 100 new members. Every time someone got a 'sale' they had to throw the dildo at the dartboard. This is the world of sales - talk a load of rubbish so that you get to throw a dildo at a dartboard.

There are issues with the said gym about overcrowding. Many people can't get onto machines at busy times or into classes. That is something they missed off the induction talk.

If someone was to go through the contract I am sure there would be some loophole to get out of a 12 month contract.

Is it a scam. No. It is a very unethical way to do business with very little morals. People have got to start questionning how they do business for anything to change.




I have worked in this industry. It is not about fitness, not about customer service, it is about signing as many people up as possible to get as much money as possible.

Without customers, how would the gyms stay in business. So yes, a gyms priority is to get people paying


Because it is a shiny gym people are not likely to question it. A gym this big must be right, and Richard Branson manages it?

If you were going to buy a car, would you buy one thats not been valeted? of course the equipment is going to be clean/shiney. Richard Branson is a businessman, so making money is his goal, nothing wrong with that.


sales driven idiots who need high sales figures so they can so off at the next office party.

these sales driven idiots, need sales in order to keep their jobs/pay the mortgage/rent.


The terms of the contract are never clear and are never made clear.

What part of "12 month contract" is unclear? to me that means you have signed up to be a member of the gym for 12 months, and that also means you pay 12 installments.



There are issues with the said gym about overcrowding. Many people can't get onto machines at busy times or into classes. That is something they missed off the induction talk.

Of course gyms miss that bit off, but it must be obvious that the January rush to get fit will die off by the middle of February, so equipment comes available.



Its not the gyms fault that people are not aware they are still paying membership. I believe one of the major gyms in Sheffield has over 3000 paying members, can you imagine if each of these people trained once a week? there would need to be a gym the size of 3 Football pitches.

How many of the major gyms would survive if only the hardcore members trained (probably none). So its obvious why gyms make members pay 12 months.

Thanks Go4it- what you've said is pretty much the points I was trying to get across, except you've put it better and, the fact that you've actually worked in the environment is a plus.



mrbusdriver- no, I'm not a troll.

I've explained as clearly as possible my views and done so in several different ways- it's obvious you're not going to see my point-of-view and, similarly, i can't relate to your views- so, i guess we'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

Not happy with virgin gym, signed up to a contract (12 months diamond membership £39 a month), within a month of joining i had my offer accepted on a house, which was at the other side of town (over 10 miles)i informed the gym and was told that i coulndnt get out of contract but could freeze it at £7 a month, i wrote in explaining that i had now moved away and could not get to the gym (unless there was a fab bus service which went from stocksbridge to abbeydale road in less than an hour!) i recieved a letter some time after telling me that i should consider the concequences of such a lifestyle change and no! we wont release you from the contract.
i havent been for an induction and they havent got my picture put on the system.

i just want out!!

any suggestions to my dilemma? or does any one know any good small print that i can use against them or does any one else have same problem?

i accept that i should have questioned this before i signed.

Just cancel the direct debit with your bank. I've done this 3 times with Virgin active (diamond membership) and every time they have reinstated my membership no questions asked. Had a few threatening letters, but never anything further.
I'm no longer a member with them so I refuse to pay for a service that I'm not using :)

I'm not sure what the scam is here. The OP knew she had signed up to a 12 month contract and Virgin are asking her to stick to it. Her circumstances have changed and it would be lovely if Virgin would let her out but they're being tough and sticking to the deal.

The 12 month bit is defo NOT part of the small print.

I guess hardball method of contract management allows them to forecast their income stream and carry on paying their staff's wages.

I too would want to get out of such a contract but once I'd exhausted all the possibilities I guess I'd give up.

If I felt a little unethical I might go to my GP and complain of back pain, maybe build up a short history of it, then present this evidence to the gym and use that as a get-out clause.

Best and most sensible post so far!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

You can hardly say "12 months" is in the small print. To be fair to gyms such as these it is hard sell but it has to be, otherwise the gym would not be able to stay in business.

You can't compare gyms such as these to Fitness Unlimited, simply because they are not helped with funding via the tax payer. Selling contracts in large quantitys has to be the aim simply to survive.

Just cancel the direct debit with your bank. I've done this 3 times with Virgin active (diamond membership) and every time they have reinstated my membership no questions asked. Had a few threatening letters, but never anything further.
I'm no longer a member with them so I refuse to pay for a service that I'm not using :)

Good advice, would have helped the OP more 4 and half years ago when he/she asked the question tho! :roll:

This is better than a soap opera:bigsmile: Its just like reading a good book that you cant put down LOL PS before you all jump on me....I KNOW my post doesnt help one little bit but just thought I would comment :)

Good advice, would have helped the OP more 4 and half years ago when he/she asked the question tho! :roll:
Didn't realize the date, just something I stumbled across . Its nice to know though that there is clever people like you out there to pick up on something so pointless. Thank you for wasting your time!

Didn't realize the date, just something I stumbled across . Its nice to know though that there is clever people like you out there to pick up on something so pointless. Thank you for wasting your time!

I didn't notice the date either! - there's always one sarkey bu@@ar, isn't there?:hihi:

Good advice, would have helped the OP more 4 and half years ago when he/she asked the question tho! :roll:

Oh, I dunno, at least the OP might notice the thread and tell us the outcome ;)