http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10497716.stm

For all you decrying the H&S Laws read this.
At least 200 killed, and many more seriously injured.
This is what happens when H&S is ignored

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10497716.stm

For all you decrying the H&S Laws read this.
At least 200 killed, and many more seriously injured.
This is what happens when H&S is ignored
we had a fire at work this week, if health and safety was ignored people may not have got out calmy and quickly, the fire was at the back of the building but thick black smoke soon came out the front too

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10497716.stm

For all you decrying the H&S Laws read this.
At least 200 killed, and many more seriously injured.
This is what happens when H&S is ignored

The reason "Elf n Safety" get hammered is because there are so many stupid, crazy rules that have been introduced ,which basically , if people followed them ,would never be able to get anything done .

A good example of this was something i witnessed this week .

you may have noticed that now a days it seems council workmen are incapable of climbing a ladder. across the road from my mom , the council spent nearly a full day erecting scaffolding on the front of a bungalow so they could change the guttering .

This job was all of 10 feet from the ground ,and was a simple job ,which could quite easily have been done by two men with small ladders in a couple of hours.

it was a complete waste of time and expense ,all because some idiot thought it was dangerous to have people using a small ladder.

Its things like this which give "Elf n Safety " a bad name ,and rightly so .

Im sure im not the only one to have witnessed crazy work procedures like this .

The reason "Elf n Safety" get hammered is because there are so many stupid, crazy rules that have been introduced ,which basically , if people followed them ,would never be able to get anything done .

A good example of this was something i witnessed this week .

you may have noticed that now a days it seems council workmen are incapable of climbing a ladder. across the road from my mom , the council spent nearly a full day erecting scaffolding on the front of a bungalow so they could change the guttering .

This job was all of 10 feet from the ground ,and was a simple job ,which could quite easily have been done by two men with small ladders in a couple of hours.

it was a complete waste of time and expense ,all because some idiot thought it was dangerous to have people using a small ladder.

Its things like this which give "Elf n Safety " a bad name ,and rightly so .

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.
They are only usable as means of access.
if you want to cripple yourself, no insurance company will cover you.

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.
They are only usable as means of access.
if you want to cripple yourself, no insurance company will cover you.

This is the barmy regulations im talking about.

i spent many years as a window fitter ,and still to this day ,window fitters ,window cleaners Have to use ladders to do their job ,otherwise nothing would get done.

if your telling me a person is not capable of working off a small ladder ,the world must be full of really stupid people .

just a thought , how do you get your windows cleaned ?

Does your window cleaner bring scaffolding with him ?

Yes but I can't help but think that insisting teachers wear safety goggles to apply Blue Tac is over-egging the pudding somewhat.

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.
They are only usable as means of access.
if you want to cripple yourself, no insurance company will cover you.

What do you know about using a step ladder to change a florescent tube artisan? Is it illegal these days?

And a supplementary question, do you have to be a qualified electrician to change a tube?

Thanks.

H & S is STUPID and people that believe in them all the way are STUPID,
no wonder why the council is is debt have to have scaffolding erected, if they used ladders they could get 2 houses done a day not just 1

im a chef and some of the hygeine rules make me giggle they are that daft

i personally like the rule that chefs cannot smoke, leave the premises, travel to and from work or eat in their whites but yet when we have to clean under racking that means i have to get on the floor and then clean the fryers out and fridges and other mucky jobs no one says anything about that and no we dont take out uniforms off fto do these jobs as its the hygeine law that says we must always wear our whites when in the kitchen to prevent cross contamination. :confused:

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.
They are only usable as means of access.

.

What's the penalty for a householder caught up a ladder?

What do you know about using a step ladder to change a florescent tube artisan? Is it illegal these days?

And a supplementary question, do you have to be a qualified electrician to change a tube?

Thanks.

A man who works for Balfour Beatty is up for the sack at pinderfiields because he use a wooden ladder to read a water meter.

This is the barmy regulations im talking about.

i spent many years as a window fitter ,and still to this day ,window fitters ,window cleaners Have to use ladders to do their job ,otherwise nothing would get done.

if your telling me a person is not capable of working off a small ladder ,the world must be full of really stupid people .

just a thought , how do you get your windows cleaned ?

Does your window cleaner bring scaffolding with him ?

Go for life old pal

Just dont except me to help you out when you are a cripple.
Let Dave do that.

This is the barmy regulations im talking about.

i spent many years as a window fitter ,and still to this day ,window fitters ,window cleaners Have to use ladders to do their job ,otherwise nothing would get done.

if your telling me a person is not capable of working off a small ladder ,the world must be full of really stupid people .

just a thought , how do you get your windows cleaned ?

Does your window cleaner bring scaffolding with him ?

Window cleaners who actually follow the HSE rules use a pure water fed pole system. Not a ladder.!

Only a fool would use a ladder as a work platform. :loopy:

Heres a prime exsample on how not to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrL1kBVHyX0&feature=channel

A man who works for Balfour Beatty is up for the sack at pinderfiields because he use a wooden ladder to read a water meter.

Oh dear. :(

That's not good news.

Thanks for the reply artisan. :)

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.

No it's not.

They are only usable as means of access.

Again, wrong.

Working at Height regulations do not specify what equipment you must or must not use, or specify heights at which differing rules apply. There are three simple rules - You must avoid all work at height where practically possible (work at height is defined as any height which has a risk of causing an injury). It you must work at height, you must prevent where practical, prevent a fall. Where you can't prevent a fall, you must take as many precautions as practically possible in order to reduce the impact of a fall.

What equipment you use to do this is up to you, and a risk assesment should be made to evaluate the risks and correctly decide on the procedures to use. Generally, the use of a ladder as a work platform carries a much high risk of someone/thing falling, causing injury, than a properly erected scaffold tower. Equally, if you are only using the ladder for a few minutes, the risk compared to using the scaffolding decreases, as the time taken to erect the scaffold will increase the amount of work done at height.

if you want to cripple yourself, no insurance company will cover you.

Insurance companies and uninformed / untrained "H&S Managers" are the main cause of "you must not use a ladder" type rules. Provided you have a full, complete and sensible risk assesment for the work undertaken, the insurance company will normally pay out.

With the worker being proscecuted for using a wooden ladder, I imagine it's less to do with the use of a ladder, and more for using inappropriate access methods, unsafe / untested equipment or other employment conditions. My main question would be "where did the wooden ladder come from?", as generally, wooden ladders are not used in industry these days, as they are more difficult to test, fail without warning (unlike aluminium), do not carry as much load, require a more strict maintainance and testing regieme and do not last as long as the alternatives.

For my work, I have to undertake an annual WaH course, and use ladders, as a work platform and access, on a daily basis. I'm also trained to build and use scaff towers, and am expected to decide whether to use the scaff tower or ladder based on which meets my requirements under H&S law the best. On none of these courses, have we been told that ladders are prohibited for use as a work platform, but we have had the specifics of the WaH regulations discussed.

That sounds far too sensible. - And not half as good as 'It's against the law to use a ladder, particularly if you've got half a pound of bendy bananas in your pocket.'

No it's not.



Again, wrong.

Working at Height regulations do not specify what equipment you must or must not use, or specify heights at which differing rules apply. There are three simple rules - You must avoid all work at height where practically possible (work at height is defined as any height which has a risk of causing an injury). It you must work at height, you must prevent where practical, prevent a fall. Where you can't prevent a fall, you must take as many precautions as practically possible in order to reduce the impact of a fall.

What equipment you use to do this is up to you, and a risk assesment should be made to evaluate the risks and correctly decide on the procedures to use. Generally, the use of a ladder as a work platform carries a much high risk of someone/thing falling, causing injury, than a properly erected scaffold tower. Equally, if you are only using the ladder for a few minutes, the risk compared to using the scaffolding decreases, as the time taken to erect the scaffold will increase the amount of work done at height.



Insurance companies and uninformed / untrained "H&S Managers" are the main cause of "you must not use a ladder" type rules. Provided you have a full, complete and sensible risk assesment for the work undertaken, the insurance company will normally pay out.

With the worker being proscecuted for using a wooden ladder, I imagine it's less to do with the use of a ladder, and more for using inappropriate access methods, unsafe / untested equipment or other employment conditions. My main question would be "where did the wooden ladder come from?", as generally, wooden ladders are not used in industry these days, as they are more difficult to test, fail without warning (unlike aluminium), do not carry as much load, require a more strict maintainance and testing regieme and do not last as long as the alternatives.

For my work, I have to undertake an annual WaH course, and use ladders, as a work platform and access, on a daily basis. I'm also trained to build and use scaff towers, and am expected to decide whether to use the scaff tower or ladder based on which meets my requirements under H&S law the best. On none of these courses, have we been told that ladders are prohibited for use as a work platform, but we have had the specifics of the WaH regulations discussed.

I will not use a ladder as a work platform.
If I did, at my age I would be putting my self in danger.
My employers require me to fill out a risk assessment before any task, and ladder work is one of the main risks.

I will not use a ladder as a work platform.
If I did, at my age I would be putting my self in danger.
My employers require me to fill out a risk assessment before any task, and ladder work is one of the main risks.

But you haven't told us what it is you do. but I wouldn't use ladder if I had other means of access.

But you haven't told us what it is you do. but I wouldn't use ladder if I had other means of access.

I am an Engineer, I was employed by the NHS, but now by one of the biggest companies in the UK, thanks to PFI, and TUPE

Health and Safety at Work was OK until it became a joke with the profusion of ambulance chases and no win no fee solicitors.

I will not use a ladder as a work platform.
If I did, at my age I would be putting my self in danger.
My employers require me to fill out a risk assessment before any task, and ladder work is one of the main risks.

So you're following the rules of the Working at Height regulations correctly. That being so, where did you get the idea that...

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.
They are only usable as means of access.
if you want to cripple yourself, no insurance company will cover you.

...especially if the reason you don't use a ladder is that your risk assesment says alternatives are more suitable, and not because it's illegal.

Different access methods are suitable for different jobs. Changing guttering is going to be an access tower / cherry picker / scissor lift in order to have a safe, large working platform, and takes a significant amount of time. Changing a lightbulb in an office is going to be a step ladder, as it takes seconds to complete - building a tower would take longer than the job.

Things only start getting complicated when you start talking about fall mitigation (harnesses, lanyards, arrestors, rescue plans and the likes), especially when you have to justify exactly why you need the mitigation equipment in the first place.

Health and Safety at Work was OK until it became a joke with the profusion of ambulance chases and no win no fee solicitors.

I is not a joke by any means.
I have worked in hell holes.
It is Gods Gift to the working man

Someone's nitpicking, or looking for an argument and it isn't artisan. :D

Someone's nitpicking, or looking for an argument and it isn't artisan. :D

Thanks Grahame, that saved me from getting in a row.:thumbsup:

It is Gods Gift to the working man

It is also a pain in the backside that sometimes is imposable to follow

Here is an example of a pointless H&S rule:

I work outdoors, and we're forbidden to walk on grass. The reason? It is too slippy and we might fall down and injure ourselves.

However when it snows or is really icy... they don't bat an eyelid!

It is also a pain in the backside that sometimes is imposable to follow

The majority of the problem comes from interpretations of the rules by people who do not understand them. The laws themselves are not a massive problem, and almost every "we're not alllowed to because of health and safety" stems back to either a poor management decision, or an insurance company - not the law.

On the point of ladders, clearly you can use them - Sky engineers spend all day putting up dishes two or three stories high directly off ladders.

Here is an example of a pointless H&S rule:

I work outdoors, and we're forbidden to walk on grass. The reason? It is too slippy and we might fall down and injure ourselves.

However when it snows or is really icy... they don't bat an eyelid!

Who is responsible for the rule though? It's clearly not illegal since footballers are paid to run around on grass - I'm sure gardners would have a hard time as well.

Who is responsible for the rule though? It's clearly not illegal since footballers are paid to run around on grass - I'm sure gardners would have a hard time as well.

It is the policy of the Health and Safety managers where I work. My manager started having kittens when I told him I needed to walk across grass to gain access to a property. His solution? a 15 minute detour...

Here is some else for you to debate about. There is a peice in the Sheffield STAR paper from friday 2nd July 2010 on page 10 stating that SCC has paid out too much money in the trip compensation. The peice is entitled Soaring toll of trip tax. The PM David Cameron has appointed Lord Young to shake up the H&S laws.. Lord Young has described H&S legislation as a joke.!

The majority of the problem comes from interpretations of the rules by people who do not understand them. The laws themselves are not a massive problem, and almost every "we're not alllowed to because of health and safety" stems back to either a poor management decision, or an insurance company - not the law.
...

That seems to apply to a lot of things in a lot of places.

On the point of ladders, clearly you can use them - Sky engineers spend all day putting up dishes two or three stories high directly off ladders.

When we first had sky the bloke that fitted it did an great job , he run the cable uo to the gutter then hid it behind the gutter to run to the end of the house and put the dish high up under the cable end.

When we upgraded to HD along came Mr Health and safety, he drilled a hole in the wall to tie is ladder to an eyebolt to change the dish and then flatly refused to move is ladder to run the cable behind the gutter.

He ended up doing a botch job that I had to put right after he had gone

When we first had sky the bloke that fitted it did an great job , he run the cable uo to the gutter then hid it behind the gutter to run to the end of the house and put the dish high up under the cable end.

When we upgraded to HD along came Mr Health and safety, he drilled a hole in the wall to tie is ladder to an eyebolt to change the dish and then flatly refused to move is ladder to run the cable behind the gutter.

He ended up doing a botch job that I had to put right after he had gone

I hope you put up scaffolding ,and didnt use a ladder ,you naughty boy :nono::nono:

:hihi:

Go for life old pal

Just dont except me to help you out when you are a cripple.
Let Dave do that.

You didn`t answer my question .

How do you have your windows cleaned ?

Does your window cleaner bring scaffolding with him ? , seeing as your so `Elf N Safety ` wary.

While we are on the subject how comes I have a car driving licence that lasts indefinitely but my FLT licence only lasts 10 years and there are companies insurance rules that want testing every 3 years

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.
They are only usable as means of access.
if you want to cripple yourself, no insurance company will cover you.

I must have been dreaming then, when Sheffield Window Centre (recommended btw) used sloping supports (ie big ladder) to fit windows to my 2 storey house.

No it's not.



Again, wrong.

Working at Height regulations do not specify what equipment you must or must not use, or specify heights at which differing rules apply. There are three simple rules - You must avoid all work at height where practically possible (work at height is defined as any height which has a risk of causing an injury). It you must work at height, you must prevent where practical, prevent a fall. Where you can't prevent a fall, you must take as many precautions as practically possible in order to reduce the impact of a fall.

What equipment you use to do this is up to you, and a risk assesment should be made to evaluate the risks and correctly decide on the procedures to use. Generally, the use of a ladder as a work platform carries a much high risk of someone/thing falling, causing injury, than a properly erected scaffold tower. Equally, if you are only using the ladder for a few minutes, the risk compared to using the scaffolding decreases, as the time taken to erect the scaffold will increase the amount of work done at height.



Insurance companies and uninformed / untrained "H&S Managers" are the main cause of "you must not use a ladder" type rules. Provided you have a full, complete and sensible risk assesment for the work undertaken, the insurance company will normally pay out.

With the worker being proscecuted for using a wooden ladder, I imagine it's less to do with the use of a ladder, and more for using inappropriate access methods, unsafe / untested equipment or other employment conditions. My main question would be "where did the wooden ladder come from?", as generally, wooden ladders are not used in industry these days, as they are more difficult to test, fail without warning (unlike aluminium), do not carry as much load, require a more strict maintainance and testing regieme and do not last as long as the alternatives.

For my work, I have to undertake an annual WaH course, and use ladders, as a work platform and access, on a daily basis. I'm also trained to build and use scaff towers, and am expected to decide whether to use the scaff tower or ladder based on which meets my requirements under H&S law the best. On none of these courses, have we been told that ladders are prohibited for use as a work platform, but we have had the specifics of the WaH regulations discussed.

Ah, the voice of reason. Wasted on SF.

I must have been dreaming then, when Sheffield Window Centre (recommended btw) used sloping supports (ie big ladder) to fit windows to my 2 storey house.

You were breaking the law then
you were allowing an illegal activity

My view on this. H & S legislation is excellent. Incompetent implementation is the problem.

You were breaking the law then
you were allowing an illegal activity

No I wasn't. I was employing and experienced and competent contractor.

CDM regulations did not apply, anyway. If they had, as they often do in my work, I would have taken the required actions regarding risk assessments etc (edit: ...and primarily to ensure the competence of the Contractor)

Edit: ...and as an employer (I can't remember if this is the specified term used as I haven't got a copy of the regs in front of me) ensured that the Contractor was able to undertake the work safely. However, as a "man off the street" having work done on his house, there is no such expectation.

No it's not.



Again, wrong.

Working at Height regulations do not specify what equipment you must or must not use, or specify heights at which differing rules apply. There are three simple rules - You must avoid all work at height where practically possible (work at height is defined as any height which has a risk of causing an injury). It you must work at height, you must prevent where practical, prevent a fall. Where you can't prevent a fall, you must take as many precautions as practically possible in order to reduce the impact of a fall.

What equipment you use to do this is up to you, and a risk assesment should be made to evaluate the risks and correctly decide on the procedures to use. Generally, the use of a ladder as a work platform carries a much high risk of someone/thing falling, causing injury, than a properly erected scaffold tower. Equally, if you are only using the ladder for a few minutes, the risk compared to using the scaffolding decreases, as the time taken to erect the scaffold will increase the amount of work done at height.



Insurance companies and uninformed / untrained "H&S Managers" are the main cause of "you must not use a ladder" type rules. Provided you have a full, complete and sensible risk assesment for the work undertaken, the insurance company will normally pay out.

With the worker being proscecuted for using a wooden ladder, I imagine it's less to do with the use of a ladder, and more for using inappropriate access methods, unsafe / untested equipment or other employment conditions. My main question would be "where did the wooden ladder come from?", as generally, wooden ladders are not used in industry these days, as they are more difficult to test, fail without warning (unlike aluminium), do not carry as much load, require a more strict maintainance and testing regieme and do not last as long as the alternatives.

For my work, I have to undertake an annual WaH course, and use ladders, as a work platform and access, on a daily basis. I'm also trained to build and use scaff towers, and am expected to decide whether to use the scaff tower or ladder based on which meets my requirements under H&S law the best. On none of these courses, have we been told that ladders are prohibited for use as a work platform, but we have had the specifics of the WaH regulations discussed.

I have quoted this post again, purely so that I can embolded the bit that includes the word "decide". The problem with H & S legislation is the number of people who are not prepared (or able?) to decide anything and so resort to the lowest common denominator and avoid any decision other than "no".

You were breaking the law then
you were allowing an illegal activity

What illegal activity was he allowing?

Whilst it is being discussed ....
Around 200 die in the fixed working place - and everyone knows about elf'n'safety in this context.
Away from the office, factory, building site of the 2222 road fatalities in 2009 around one-quarter to one-third of them involved a driver or drivers at work, so that's 500 - 700 more deaths involving someone at work.
Since 1999, driving for work has been specifically mentioned in the HSAW Regs and, as with any other work activity the driver's on-road work has to.
be risk assessed.
Many, many organisations do absolutely diddly-squat as regards assessments or training that might be suggested by the RA's. I presume the management are crossing fingers and hoping that nothing goes pear-shaped with their drivers out on the road.
So I work in very much the Cinderella end of H&S as proven by the fact that many organisations are required to offer their computer screen operators an eyesight check every two years. In 6 years of sitting with company drivers I am always the first person ever to check whether the driver's eyesight
meets the legal standard for driving.

Where you can't prevent a fall, you must take as many precautions as practically possible in order to reduce the impact of a fall. What equipment you use to do this is up to you,So you could use a giant whoopie cushion to break your fall? Now, that would be fun, and break up the working day no end :hihi:

I have quoted this post again, purely so that I can embolded the bit that includes the word "decide". The problem with H & S legislation is the number of people who are not prepared (or able?) to decide anything and so resort to the lowest common denominator and avoid any decision other than "no".

So what you are saying is assess, decide, be able (trained) and take the risk?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10497716.stm

For all you decrying the H&S Laws read this.
At least 200 killed, and many more seriously injured.
This is what happens when H&S is ignored

Umm... what's an overturned fuel tanker in DR Congo to do with Elven Safety Laws here? :huh:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10497716.stm

For all you decrying the H&S Laws read this.
At least 200 killed, and many more seriously injured.
This is what happens when H&S is ignored

That happened because there was a crowd of people looting petrol from the crashed tanker. I've witnessed the same thing happening myself in Indonesia where there was a big crowd of people with buckets collecting petrol from an overturned tanker. The police were in attendance and charging a fee for each person who wanted to fill their bucket.

It's very likely that the explosion was set off by someone smoking as is so often the case in Nigeria where people tap into oil pipelines regularly, causing huge explosions with mass deaths.

H&S is a good thing, but needs the rule of law to be applied properly. We made huge strides in industrial safety since Victorian times and deaths from industrial accidents are very low now. The recent bad name that H&S has acquired are because of petty rules imposed by petty bureaucrats who have no real comprehension of industry.

So what you are saying is assess, decide, be able (trained) and take the risk?

No, that's not what I am saying.

Umm... what's an overturned fuel tanker in DR Congo to do with Elven Safety Laws here? :huh:

It is a demonstration of what happens when health and safety is ignored
Look at the disaster in The Gulf of Mexico.
Profit driven american companies, under the auspices of BP, giving no attention to H&S and we have potentially the greatest man made disaster ever.

The yanks, and their pathetic 'president' are now trying to blame the UK because of the B in BP.
If they cant cap this well, it will make no difference what the Yanks say, as the southern half of their country will be a wasteland.

All due to putting profits above safety.

One of the problems of Health and Safety at work is the declining number of inspections and inspectors to enforce the legislation. It's disgraceful that in the last 2 years there have been over 150 deaths at work in the construction industry ALONE.


It's a real shame that these overpaid morons in the media who write about "'elf and safety gaaawn maaad" don't have to face the very real dangers that many construction workers face every day. If they did, they'd soon change their tune.

Just a quick question. The sale of ladders is perfectly legal and so is their use if for example I wanted to paint the outside of my house.

So although ladders have not been banned by law, can my manager stop me from using one?

Just a quick question. The sale of ladders is perfectly legal and so is their use if for example I wanted to paint the outside of my house.

So although ladders have not been banned by law, can my manager stop me from using one?

Yes. And he should stop you, until you've done a risk assesment, and unless that comes out in favour of using a ladder, continue to stop you from using one.

A large amount of work traditionally done at height on ladders can be done more safely - either with alternative equipment (e.g. window washing poles) removing the need to work at height, or alternative access methods (e.g. scaff towers) which are safer working platforms than ladders.

Yes. And he should stop you, until you've done a risk assesment, and unless that comes out in favour of using a ladder, continue to stop you from using one.

A large amount of work traditionally done at height on ladders can be done more safely - either with alternative equipment (e.g. window washing poles) removing the need to work at height, or alternative access methods (e.g. scaff towers) which are safer working platforms than ladders.

Thanks for the reply. I only use a ladder when I fit fluorescent tubes, so we are only talking about a few feet. But my manager wants to stop all ladder use, even only going up two or three rungs and I think it is because we have gone PFI and it will be to his companies advantage if they can stop me from doing it so they can charge £50.00 for coming out to replace a tube which I do for nothing, apart from my wage of course, which based on time costs about £3.00. :mad:

What they should do in my opinion is to send me on a ladder course and if they don't I shall know their true motivation is to screw the people I am on loan to for even more money.

Thanks for the reply. I only use a ladder when I fit fluorescent tubes, so we are only talking about a few feet. But my manager wants to stop all ladder use, even only going up two or three rungs and I think it is because we have gone PFI and it will be to his companies advantage if they can stop me from doing it so they can charge £50.00 for coming out to replace a tube which I do for nothing, apart from my wage of course, which based on time costs about £3.00. :mad:

What they should do in my opinion is to send me on a ladder course and if they don't I shall know their true motivation is to screw the people I am on loan to for even more money.

Get one of those little staircases on wheels with a little platform and handrail at the top. You need a place to store them, though.

Just a quick question. The sale of ladders is perfectly legal and so is their use if for example I wanted to paint the outside of my house.

So although ladders have not been banned by law, can my manager stop me from using one?

If you want to paint your house that is fine.
But at work it is a different matter.
The faulty light tube should be reported to the relevant section, using the correct channels.
Then either the maintenance people, or contractors will be allocated to change the tube.
If changing light tubes is not in your work description, then you do not do it, on pain of dismissal for misconduct.

Iam a qualified electrical engineer, but in my present post am employed as a mechanical engineer.
Therefore I cannot do any electrical work at all.

All work has to risk assessed, a method statement made out, before work can commence.
It is galling to men of my experience and skill to have to do this, but it is the law, and has to be followed.
If a death or serious injury were to happen, we would all be up on serious criminal charges.

A colleague is under the threat of dismissal, as he used a wooden ladder left by builders to read a water meter 8 feet from the ground.
He was seen by a senior manager, who photghraphed him, using his phone, and reported him for unsafe working practice.:loopy:

(How the builders got it on site is a mystery, it has no markings or test certs on it, if it had he would be pretty much in the clear)

Thanks for your advice artisan, I know in my heart of hearts it is good advice.....

Cheers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10497716.stm

For all you decrying the H&S Laws read this.
At least 200 killed, and many more seriously injured.
This is what happens when H&S is ignored

If somebody is anti H&S you need to ask yourself why. Usually it's a boss who want to cut corners for financial reasons.

about 4 years ago my insurance company sent me a list of rules to comply with otherwise my cover would be invalid.

1.must not use a ladder over 6 meters high (about the hight of your average semi)

2.ladder must be secured to the building(this is too time consuming for a window cleaner earning about a fiver an house)

3.ladder must be footed at all times (so thats 2 blokes earning the fiver instead of one)

4.person footing the ladder must wear hard hat and hi-vis clothing.

i sold my ladders (kept one for access) and bought a waterfed pole system.

about 4 years ago my insurance company sent me a list of rules to comply with otherwise my cover would be invalid.

1.must not use a ladder over 6 meters high (about the hight of your average semi)

2.ladder must be secured to the building(this is too time consuming for a window cleaner earning about a fiver an house)

3.ladder must be footed at all times (so thats 2 blokes earning the fiver instead of one)

4.person footing the ladder must wear hard hat and hi-vis clothing.

i sold my ladders (kept one for access) and bought a waterfed pole system.

So (ignoring the fact that is not actually health and safety but insurance rules) it worked then? You found a less dangerous solution to your ... whatever it is that you were doing.

So (ignoring the fact that is not actually health and safety but insurance rules) it worked then? You found a less dangerous solution to your ... whatever it is that you were doing.

yes you are correct so now me and my lads work from the saftey of the floor and no-ones in any danger,although walking round looking upwards all the time plays havoc on the shins,i'm forever walking into things :hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi:

I am an Engineer, I was employed by the NHS, but now by one of the biggest companies in the UK, thanks to PFI, and TUPEGood to come across a fellow engineer, which institute are you chartered with?

QUOTE=artisan;6424991]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/10497716.stm

For all you decrying the H&S Laws read this.
At least 200 killed, and many more seriously injured.
This is what happens when H&S is ignored[/QUOTE]


Health and Safety is out of control for one reason, and one reason only. The growing industry of no-win-no-fee solicitors and claiming for absolutely anything that happens in the workplace. Large employers run their H&S on the basis that they must be able to mount what's called the "due diligence defence" against claims. A magistrate will expect and employer to take "reasonable steps" to prevent accidents. Such as providing a £1.99 pair of goggles to anyone working where airborne objects or particles may be, or ensuring that it's staff are properly trained to use equipment safely, and that records are kept etc. Most H&S managers will blame the claim-culture in the USA for this. They will cite two instances of mad payouts to claimants. 1. The bloke in McDonalds who sued the chain when he spilled his hot coffee on his lap - the result, cups which say "Warning - Contains Hot Liquid" (deemed a reasonable step to prevent an accident). 2.The woman who sued Toys R Us when she tripped over her OWN child in a store, - the result, signs in doorways reading "Please keep your children under close supervision" (another reasonable step)

It's a great shame when you here of schools refusing to send kids on school trips citing the cost of possible legal action if a minor accident occurs. Any parent who tries to claim compensation when little Johnny trips over his shoelaces should be ashamed of themselves.

Yes. And he should stop you, until you've done a risk assesment, and unless that comes out in favour of using a ladder, continue to stop you from using one.

A large amount of work traditionally done at height on ladders can be done more safely - either with alternative equipment (e.g. window washing poles) removing the need to work at height, or alternative access methods (e.g. scaff towers) which are safer working platforms than ladders.

So what are the regs for the bloke building the scaffold tower? Can he use a ladder?

I'm firmly of the opinion that it's the blame / claim culture that has fuelled a lot of the 'barmy' H&S regs, and their application.

Health and safety laws have had some really bad press, banning conquers, plasters and country fairs. Many of these are false.

The HSE recently commissioned the Lofstedt report which looked into ways that policy can be changed in an attempt to clarify the rules. Now published it lists many things which need changing
Working at heights is just one of them along with First Aid

It is illegal to use a ladder as a platform to work off.
They are only usable as means of access.
if you want to cripple yourself, no insurance company will cover you.

So how much will it be to replace a single slate that come off your roof in your world? Full scaffold up?

I've seen plenty of roofers on roof ladders working from them for simple repair jobs!

Come to think of it never seen an aerial erector yet on a scaffold tower ALWAYS off roof ladders to the chimney stack!