This is something of a query really as I've lived just up the road in Walkley, on and off for about 3 years and only recently moved into Hillsborough...

Thing is, that I always thought it was a pretty quiet place, with the exception of the footie, but each time I mention where I live I get looks of horror now and dire warnings about being out alone at night, etc...

Is it really that bad and where is all this bad PR coming from? I'm bemused...




Needless to say, GOOD stores, etc. about the area would be good too :)

I lived in Hillsbro for four years when I first moved to Sheffield (I moved four years ago). I never had any trouble there at all apart from a plant pot being nicked.

Basically the people there are nice honest people. In my experience, families have lived there for generations and whilst I felt a bit like an outsider that didn't bother me. There's a lot of snobbishness about the place...this is probably what you are experiencing.

We have lived in Hillsborough for the past 3 years nearly now and have only had two cases where I wish we haddn't. The most recent case was with the bike being stolen from the garrage and the other case was just youths being little *insert beep here*.

That said, our neighbours are the best I have ever had and you get a sense of community. The pub is great too (new barracks).

I also think you get yobbish behaviour wherever you are (in cities) and theives will always find a way in if they want to. I like hillsborough and am in no big hurry to leave.

CF.

The problems in hillsborough stem from, 2 years of disruption during the construction of the hillsborough end of the Supertram network.... that and drunken loutishness coming out of the Freemasons Arms, the Shakey and the Ball pubs on weekends, especially on Saturdays afternoons when there's a match at Leppings Lane.

Why has Hillsborough got a bad reputation?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't know it had.

I have lived in and around Hillsborough for most of my life, never been attacked robbed etc.

It's a nice place with good local amenities.

PS why was the thread title changed from "HIllsborough? bad rep?" to the above, it makes it sound as though it's official.

Originally posted by upholder
PS why was the thread title changed from "HIllsborough? bad rep?" to the above, it makes it sound as though it's official.
Actually that's a good point... Could a mod please change it again to "Does Hillsborough have a bad reputation? If so why?"

... that'd be more accurately portraying what I originally said... otherwise I'm going to be taken out of context... :o

Ah...yes...The barracks on Penistone Road. Possibly the best Real Ale pub in Sheffield. Highly recommended.

Originally posted by Martin_s
Actually that's a good point... Could a mod please change it again to "Does Hillsborough have a bad reputation? If so why?"

... that'd be more accurately portraying what I originally said... otherwise I'm going to be taken out of context... :o

Done.:)

we moved to Hillsborough from Walkley in early December and so far so good (even on footie days). If anything we moved here to get away from Walkley which was becoming very scary. Police were raiding houses every other day, in April a man waving a gun around our street freaked me out. Dealers sat in cars. All very very nasty. So no Hillsborough is fab, park on the doorstep, swimming pool across the road.. What more could one want:D Martin I think we made a good move!

I quite like Hillsborough. I have nothing bad to say about it.

There are many worse areas, and Walkleys gone downhill in recent years too, so you probably made a good move.

Originally posted by t020
There are many worse areas, and Walkleys gone downhill in recent years too, so you probably made a good move.

Don't you ever learn? How about putting in some facts to support your ridiculous assertions? Alternatively, use the phrase in my opinion.

I've just bought a house just off Rivelin Valley Road, about five minutes from Malin Bridge. I too have had looks of shock and horror when I mention the location. I think (and hope) a lot of it is just snobbishness.

There's absolutly nothing wrong with Hillsborough. I was hoping to buy a house there but due to the ridiculous prices I can't afford to. Why oh why didn't I buy 2 years ago!!!!!!!!

I know what you mean!

I lost out on several houses in Hillsborough because they went for about £30,000 above the original asking price! It's ridiculous.

On a different note, what pubs are nice and friendly in the main part of Hillsborough?

The Masons is a nice place, didn't used to be but it's fine now. Deep end is ok too. Avoid the Ball though unless your a 17 year old burberry capped tw@t! :D

Recently left hillsborough after 20 years of hating it.

My experience has led me to believe that most people that drink in Hillsborough dont actually live there, so they turn up, fight, vomit and generally trash the place 3 times a week - thu, fri and sat - and then get the last bus back to where they live (after smashing the bus-stop EVERY time).

I did live on the main thouroughfare from the Ball/Shakey/Masons to the bus stops on Penistone Road, so I did see the worst of it.

If you live off that particular beaten track, and can avoid parking and congestion issues caused by football and the absolutely stupid maze-like road system, Hillsborough would be fine.

Originally posted by jackthedog
Recently left hillsborough after 20 years of hating it.



Why did you stay so long if you hated the area?

I've lived in this area for the past two years now and have seen both side of the coin. The user that mentioned the fact that people tend to come to Hilsborough from other areas hit the nail on the head and it seems to be these folks that have the habit of brawling, vomiting and deciding that the best place for a half-eaten kebab is the pavement right in front of them.

The actual residents (aside from the couple in our street who have a blazing domestic and are visited by the police every other month) are not that bad. Apart from the usual high concentration of Sheffield's own equivalent of colourful rustics (my partner described the place, much as she likes the place, as "the slack-jawed capital of Europe") the vast majority of people are perfectly decent and nice.

If only the residents could get it together to burn down a few of the more offensive pubs with the louts that patronise them inside, then the beautification of the area would take a huge step forwards.

Doesn't all this boozing, vomitting and general debauchery also take place in the more respectable Crookes and Broomhill as well?

Originally posted by cathypoos
Doesn't all this boozing, vomitting and general debauchery also take place in the more respectable Crookes and Broomhill as well?

Yes, I would say this is likely to be because of the student population in these areas.

Ah yes,

But as of yet I have failed to come across a group of half-a-dozen 16-year-olds shouting, screaming and pulling each other's hair over a guy who looks like a cunningly shaved and over-sized rat whilst they shiver in the cold wearing the most skimpy and ridiculous clothing on a Thursday night.

To have the proof of the decline of Western civilisation on your doorstep is a truly astonishing thing, believe me.

Don't many students live in Hillsborough? I know there's quite a few in Walkley.

More than ever before...but I'd be suprised if they drank there aswell.

Oh dear...that suggests they aren't very welcome.

I'd better disguise my Northern Irish accent, and tell my Surrey-ite husband to do the same, if we hope to go hunting for such delectable spectables involving shaven, over-sized rats and sixteen year old tarts in Hillsborough!

Don't get me wrong, there are good places to drink in Hilsborough. It's just that there are places that I'd avoid and I've lived here all my life and come from a working class family. The Masons Arms has recently had the crap scraped off of it and seems to be on the up. But on the other hand there has never been anything that would make me enter the Shakey or the Ball as the few times I did go in there in my younger days I saw trouble start for no good reason.

I can't think that a non-Sheffield accent would cause trouble, just that trouble tends to start whatever accents are floating around. Take my advice and try the New Barrack Tavern or Hilsborough Hotel rather than the Hilsborough Corner pubs as that way you're spared the reenactment of the last days of Soddom and Gammorah that takes place there on most week nights.

Would do one of those quote things to refer to an earlier post but I dont know how to.

I was born in Hillsborough, so I didnt get to choose where I lived as a kid. Did do a stint in Wadlsey though, which was nice enough!

I've had this conversation with a few people about the drunken behaviour differences between the Crookes/Walkey area and Hillsborough.

People living in student areas think they have it bad on a friday/saturday night because of all the drunken daftness that goes on. But living in Hillsborough, I wished it was students.

Generally, students arent the ones to smash windows/run over cars/break wing mirrors/fight/vomit/shag in the street etc etc (all regularly witnessed from my old living room window - seriously) when they are drunk.

Dont get me wrong - I know students get lairy, but its generally all well-meaning harmless fun, unlike the "slack jaw" burberry cap wearers, who seem to judge a good night on how many riot police attend.

I drink in town all the time- mainly in student pubs. Rarely do I see any bother. Yet I reckon Hillsborough (especially during summer and the run-up to christmas) sees some of the worst loutish behavoiur in Sheffield.

And i'll second Carmine's suggestion - drink in the New Barrack or the Hillsborough Hotel.

Both excellent pubs that escape the Hillsborough rabble!

I have lived in Hillsborough for just over three years now and I really do like the place. I am not a great drinker - I have the time or money to pay babysitters to go swanning off to the pub regularly.

So I don't know the pubs really. The Masons is a nice pub (that is the masons not the freemasons arms which I haven't been in). It did seem a bit small which I guess limits trouble.
Only pub I have been in recently is the Burgoyne arms, which looks terrible from the outside, but they have a new landlord who is treating the pub to a much needed decorate out. Hopefully he will reach outside and the choice of drink in there has gone up, much to the delight of my friends.

I like Hillsborough, I haven't come across any problems when saying where I live. The house prices are stupid - my neighbours have recently sold their house for far more than it was put on the market. The houses round here go up and are sold within a week!

I like it.

Moon

Why thanks for the support there, Jack.

I recall the Burgoyne being a real ****-hole at one point in the not too distant past. If they have a new landlord then I wish him all the luck in the world and maybe he could spruce up the outside of the pub as well?

When I was house hunting here I did suggest to one estate that the houses can't be being valued properly if they regularly go for 10k more than they are put on the market for (and sometimes more). she said no that wasn't the case it was just demand /popularity that was pushing prices up :rolleyes:

I've not come across that practice anywhere else. Back in Essex (and Plymouth too) it's normal to put in a bid a few thousand UNDER the asking price

:(

I must apologise for yesterday's rant about Hillsborough!

I didnt really wanna put anyone off Hillsborough as such, I just started ranting about the problems we suffered due to all the pubs.

If you do avoid the Hillsborough corner area on heavy drinking nights, you'll be fine.

Saying I hated it and couldnt wait to leave was sort of true, because of the troubles we had, but if you dont have the same bother as us, you'll find it's always had a good sense of community, and a decent array of shops on the doorstep, and enjoys access to the tram, park etc etc, and is generally a decent place to live.

It must be said that the drunken-ness is a problem, but I dont mean to scare anyone away!

Just thought I should point out it's good points too...

I must have been in a bad mood yesterday :)

I live in Hillsborough and as much as I hate having to watch where I'm walking on a Sunday morning, (dodge the takeaways and piles of vomit) I feel I must defend the Shakey! I have worked there nearly a year now and have only heard of two fights in all that time. They had a new landlord just over two years ago, and a refurbishment at the end of last year. The problem of the loutish behaviour can be traced (particularly on a Thursday night) to the Ball offering drinks at about £1 each. They are also not at all bothered about the age of the people they will serve. We often get trouble outside of the pub at closing time which has spilled out from the Ball.
I've lived in Sheffield for 10 years and Hillsborough is great. The people are lovely, there's great local amenities and we're only 10 minutes walk from some of the most fantastic countryside.
The property market is overinflated round here though. I bought my house on my own 4 years ago. If my partner and I tried to buy it now, we wouldn't get a mortgage together to be able to afford the house we live in now.

The Ball's pound a pint promotion is a terrible idea.

One of the coppers that attended some to-do at our place said he wished they'd drop that 'quids night'.

I think that The Ball is just a bad idea in genral.

'Tis a very popular boozer though :(

I'd have though people would've been put off a bit after that kid got duffed up outside there last year.

But really it's not THAT bad, remember it's not the pub itself that's the problem, it's the punters who go in, get rat arsed and then start playing silly beggers that causes the trouble.

True - it is the punter and not the pub - but continually targeting that punter by having cheap booze can't help.

Originally posted by max
Don't you ever learn? How about putting in some facts to support your ridiculous assertions? Alternatively, use the phrase in my opinion.

How about the recent gun crime and drug problems in Walkley? Is that factual enough for you??

Alternatively, be safe in the knowledge that the very fact that this is a forum implicitly states that opinions will be cast, without having to say "in my opinion" in nearly every post.

Many years ago I was standing in the Ball and had the delightful experience of watching as a bloke finished his pint, put the glass down and then smacked a complete stranger in the face as he walked by.

To this day, though it would not excuse the violence involved, I hope that the guy had a legitimate grudge against his victim.

Originally posted by jackthedog
The Ball's pound a pint promotion is a terrible idea.

One of the coppers that attended some to-do at our place said he wished they'd drop that 'quids night'.

It must be having an impact on the takings, they seem to have been doing it for years.

I go drinking down hillsborough every friday night and have done so for the last ten years.I go in all those horrible pubs that have been mentioned and I can honestly say I have never seen any trouble.Perhaps it's because I always catch a bus at 23.15 and so miss all the potential trouble!there is also believe or not a safe route to go round the pubs if you go ball,shakey, legends, deep end ,masons then finish in the shakey no problems whatsoever.
avoid the kebab and pizza places too many people wanting to make a name .Wait while the new college on owlerton is built and then you won't be able to drink down 'the boro' at all!

I was gonna say that the college wont effect the pubs in 'the boro' cos it'll only have 16-18 year old students.
But actaully, that seems to be the age of a vast number of Hillsborough drinkers!

If you've left for the bus by 11.15, chances are you'll not see a great deal of bother. It tends to begin as they are thrown out of the pub, and go on till about 12.30ish, after the kebab and pizza places throw them out.

i go down there most Sunday nights,and i always have a good time with a solid crew of mates all over or near 40.We dont get involved in any trouble because we tend now to avoid the Ball which seems to be full of young guns wanting a pop at any one,as long as they've got there mates to back em up of course?My advise is stay out of the ball,or go in there early end up in the shaky,and you'll have good night(promise),and you can get me a beer when you get to the bar!

john t

I can't understand why people frequent "The Ball". The beer is goddamn awful. We call in on sunday lunchtime during our weekly crawl and it's like p1$$.

Originally posted by keefdave
I can't understand why people frequent "The Ball". The beer is goddamn awful. We call in on sunday lunchtime during our weekly crawl and it's like p1$$.

Err, sort of contradict yourself there?

Do you really believe that nobody in Ecclesall,Dore etc.is involved with drugs or guns? if so you are a VERY naive young man. Big house, flash car doesnt make you a saint.

GEEERONIIIMO

Originally posted by Dug
Err, sort of contradict yourself there?

Yes, sorry. We call in for ONE drink and I sup Newccy Brown.

Originally posted by geronimo
Do you really believe that nobody in Ecclesall,Dore etc.is involved with drugs or guns? if so you are a VERY naive young man. Big house, flash car doesnt make you a saint.

GEEERONIIIMO

Of course not. However the proportion of crime is much lower (see the hunters bar thread for a detailed breakdown to prove this), and thus the occurences are a lot less common, making such areas safer to live.

Originally posted by t020
Of course not. However the proportion of crime is much lower (see the hunters bar thread for a detailed breakdown to prove this), and thus the occurences are a lot less common, making such areas safer to live.

here goes again........

God are you still on about this? :loopy:

I think more murders have been committed against families in their own homes in such places as Dore and North Derbyshire than in parts of central Sheffield recently. Street crime is the thing there. Remember that horrific thing where the daughter allegedly brought home the guy who murdered the whole familly in Dore? Awfull, you are not safe in any part of the city .

Originally posted by Carmine
I recall the Burgoyne being a real ****-hole at one point in the not too distant past. If they have a new landlord then I wish him all the luck in the world and maybe he could spruce up the outside of the pub as well?

I can happily confirm that the new landlord has had the decorators in and done the inside up! Here to the summer when hopefully he will paint the front up! It is a loverly little pub now, not a dark and dingy dive.

Moon

Nice to hear the new Landlord's doin a good job!

Originally posted by t020
Of course not. However the proportion of crime is much lower (see the hunters bar thread for a detailed breakdown to prove this), and thus the occurences are a lot less common, making such areas safer to live.

Remember the outcry from Hunters Bar residents when they first brought the Harrises in Coronation St and said they were from Hunter's Bar?!

Pfft... no offense to them as lives up there but Corrie is fictional, not to be taken seriously, not even by people who don't have a life beyond watching the soaps....

Originally posted by Rich
Remember the outcry from Hunters Bar residents when they first brought the Harrises in Coronation St and said they were from Hunter's Bar?!

Pfft... no offense to them as lives up there but Corrie is fictional, not to be taken seriously, not even by people who don't have a life beyond watching the soaps....

I remember it yes, and I can empathise. Afterall, the Harrises are a common family with a thug as a father, and at the time they also seemed as if they were on the run. So no offence to them, but theres no way they could afford to have lived at Hunters Bar, and the fact that they had to go into witness protection reflected unfairly on Hunters Bar and also Sheffield as a whole. Probably a deliberate little pot at us by our 'friends' over the pennines.

But Corrie is not in Hillsborough

All pleasantries aside folks... can we stop dredging up old topics into tenuously related ones.. The crime issue is NOT hillsborough related...


As for the responses... it does seem like the old "rumour mill" re: Hillsborough was waaayy out on what it's like so thanks for all the positive notes and those that point out where the crud stuff seems to originate from.

Glad I moved :)

Hillsborough is ok,good shops and loads of FREE parking

Originally posted by t020
I remember it yes, and I can empathise. Afterall, the Harrises are a common family with a thug as a father, and at the time they also seemed as if they were on the run. So no offence to them, but theres no way they could afford to have lived at Hunters Bar, and the fact that they had to go into witness protection reflected unfairly on Hunters Bar and also Sheffield as a whole. Probably a deliberate little pot at us by our 'friends' over the pennines.

They lived in the pub his wife owned IIRC... so your statement "theres no way they could afford to have lived at Hunters Bar" is utter tosh.

:thumbsup:

ontopic i wouldnt say hillsboro' has a bad reputation really but it is a large area to cover

Originally posted by t020
I remember it yes, and I can empathise. Afterall, the Harrises are a common family with a thug as a father, and at the time they also seemed as if they were on the run. So no offence to them, but theres no way they could afford to have lived at Hunters Bar, and the fact that they had to go into witness protection reflected unfairly on Hunters Bar and also Sheffield as a whole. Probably a deliberate little pot at us by our 'friends' over the pennines.
How on earth can you top that piece of old cobblers? :loopy:

I've lived in Sheffield all my life and if anything would consider Hillsborough to be one of the better areas of the city. In my opinion it doesn't have a reputation at all.

Hillsborough rocks, I'm proud to be living there.

i've lived in hillsborough for 18 years and always liked it ,near to shops etc untill 18mths ago my 14 yr old son was attacked by yobs for no other reason than existing ,they beat him up and left him in some bushes ,since then i have heard so many stories abiut this happening to young ppl around hillsbro this was only 8pm and still light ,i heard of one boy losing the sight in one eye cos of this .They were around 18 yrs old by rthe way ,now i scarred to let him walk home on his own let alone his younger sister

Sorry to hear about that, ummyork.

There's a lot of chavscum hanging around Hillsborough these days. They were never around when I was growing up there (not too long ago), it's all kicked off recently, and it's a shame.

Hills is fine its just the ball wallers that ruin it abit.

I have lived in hillsborough 6 years

sunday night has a bad reputation for drinking but I live on wynyard road and apart from a stabbing there a year or so ago ( and a mugging last week) its pretty quiet...whoops sounds bad eh?

I am Hillsborough born and bred and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. We've lived in our current house for about 9 years now and never had any trouble at all.

Its great here, good shops, good schools and easily accessible for town, rivelin valley etc.

I love it and would defend its reputation!!!

born at crookes then spent nearly forty years in hillsborough,only recently moved due to cicumstances.still miss the crack down there !!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ummyorkshire
i've lived in hillsborough for 18 years and always liked it ,near to shops etc untill 18mths ago my 14 yr old son was attacked by yobs for no other reason than existing ,they beat him up and left him in some bushes ,since then i have heard so many stories abiut this happening to young ppl around hillsbro this was only 8pm and still light ,i heard of one boy losing the sight in one eye cos of this .They were around 18 yrs old by rthe way ,now i scarred to let him walk home on his own let alone his younger sister

That's nothing to do with Hillsborough itself, it's the morons who frequent the Blue Bowl and the Shakey that's the problem.

They're already stupid, but get half a dozen pints of whatever their poison is down their necks and their idocy increases tenfold.

Hence the thuggish behaviour.

Originally posted by Rich
They're already stupid, but get half a dozen pints of whatever their poison is down their necks and their idocy increases tenfold.


Half a dozen? Try 2 and a can of shandy :P

I have just read this thread. I have lived in Hillsborough for 60+years,35 of them in my own house.I did not realise what a horrible place it is.Get real folks.Pick any district anywhere and highlight a few isolated incidents to make it look bad.
Any one want to buy a house in Hillsborough?
Cheers

How much you want for it????

Sorry Crazy Daisy it was a joke,but I wish you good luck if you are looking to buy in Hillsborough.There are a lot worse places to live,but house prices have gone through the roof.young people trying to buy today really do have my sympathy.
Good Luck

Nah, haven't heard anything like that about it. All I got is good memories of meeting a tall blues lass, I saw a few times, at a fair when I was younger, which some ****** told a lie and never saw her again.

Man, still think of her. I think she's into horse riding, and use to or still lives in grenocide, as I use to see here there, hanging with this mod guy years ago. Last time I saw her was when I was b-boy )breakdancing terminoligy) but she was so nasty and don't blame her as she believed all the guy said. Couldn't even say that they played a cruel trick and her mate didn't help either at the fair, and believed the guys too. She didn't that, no lass does.

But anywaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, hillsbourough is cool, good memories and bad ones but never seen much bad happening at that area.

I live just 10 mins away from h'bro, but worked 9 years in the area so it's like a 2nd home 2 me, Ive never seen any trouble on a sunday nights thats why it's my prefered night out down there , shakey on sun now has a karaoke and its packed the lanlord murphy is making a good go of it ,but thurs IS vile all under aged in ball the police are a regular feature around 11pm.
but i love it all the same.

Having lived opposite the Deep End just down the road next to Hillsborough Corner tram stop for 2 years I can say I have mixed feelings. Hillsborough has great amenities - pubs, shops, supermarket, transport, swimming & lesiure at the park etc and is not a particularly rough area as it is. However, I have to agree that Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights are horrendous for me as a resident. Parking is horrific on my road with pub goers parking haphazardly where they please, and then spillingout at midnight and either shouting at their mates when they get in their cars and revvinmg engines and beeping horns, or otherwise they leave it there until about 2pm the next day when they've sobered up enough to get it! Sick, condoms, food, urine and general litter is a real problem and general loutishness.

I think it's mainly the people who visit it for a "top night out" that do it and not locals. They don't care or realise that people live here. I know Hillsborough isn't the only place like this, it happens all over, but in my opinion it's worse than the student areas (I'm a student myself). Been in the Ball twice, was ok but there was a big bust up one time :S

Following an attack after leaving a pub on Bradfield Rd in Hillsborough on Sunday evening I hear the two victims are now up on charges for violence. It didn't matter that they were only acting in self-defence nor that one of the attackers had a knife. The fact that they were followed from the pub does nothing but suggest that a group of muggers operate from the premises and I wonder if they are connected to the ATM muggings that happened in the area.

One of the attackers was white, around 6' tall, thin with baseball cap.

Since moving to Leppings Lane from Tapton 8 months ago due to outrageous rent rises in that area, I've nothing but good things to say about Hillsborough.

Friendly locals, good shops, great takeaways, a lovely park and convenient library and don't forget the Hot Roast Pork Sandwiches from Beres! *drool*

Even on match days there doesn't seem to be any bother. As for The Ball, I have heeded the advice and avoided it like the plague. The Deep End is nice, as is The New Barrack and The Hillsborough Hotel.

I can think of many worse places to live!!!

I'm not so sure about Hillsborough to be honest.

I've lived here for 2.5yrs now and I've had my motorbike stolen (last November) and my house burgled (last July).

But to be honest ... I have the feeling it wouldn't be much different anywhere else in the UK, close from a fenced community :(

That's England for you ... less violent but more property crime.

-Armin

Originally posted by tiffy
Following an attack after leaving a pub on Bradfield Rd in Hillsborough on Sunday evening I hear the two victims are now up on charges for violence. It didn't matter that they were only acting in self-defence nor that one of the attackers had a knife. The fact that they were followed from the pub does nothing but suggest that a group of muggers operate from the premises and I wonder if they are connected to the ATM muggings that happened in the area.

One of the attackers was white, around 6' tall, thin with baseball cap.

Yeah, stay out of the Ball and the Freemason's Arms and you'll be fine.

Away from baseball cap wearing chavs.

When I moved to Sheffield 20 years ago, colleagues at the Midland Bank (as it was then) were horrified that I bought a house in Hillsborough. There was then and there is now a myth that Hillsborough is rough tough and downmarket, not fit for the chattering classes. Yes, Hillsborough Corner can be nasty at weekends and yes, football traffic and crowds can be disruptive. But I made the best friends and had the best neighbours of my life in Hillsborough. We moved last year so I could be nearer work and while I have no regrets, I do still miss the place and the people. (Sounds like I was hundreds of miles away, must be getting soft in me old age.)