Is it true that there is going to be a cannabis cafe in Sheffield? Apparently it's being built next to the forum... Just a rumour I heard. Furthermore, how do these places get away with it? Surely it's illegal?

I think it may be a rumour - the front of the Gazette the other day had pictures of a cannabis haul brought in by South Yorkshire Police in Sheffield.

If they are still hauling in cannabis factories - there may be problems with a cafe.

Shame really - I know of at least 5 people who benefit medically from cannabis.

Moon Maiden

I read the same thing in the gazette... I hear that they have these cafes in london. I was told by a school teacher that this was true, so i suppose that's quite reliable? Even if they are not building one in Sheffield, can anyone enlighten me on the loop hole (I assume there is one) that these cafes take advantage of - Like I said surely it's completely illegal and would get raided by police a lot???

Originally posted by "Moon Maiden"

the front of the Gazette the other day had pictures of a cannabis haul brought in by South Yorkshire Police in Sheffield.


Maybe the police are planning to open a Cannabis Cafe and were just stocking up with supplies prior to opening? :lol:

Cannabis Cafes are illegal. Whether the police decide to raid them or not depends a lot on local circumstances, whether there have been complaints, and how much publicity it is getting. There are no legal loopholes, it is simply up to the police as to whether they decide to take action or not.

Anyone found selling cannabis from an outlet is likely to get pretty short shrift, even from police in Sheffield who are quite tolerant of cannabis users; the charge of supplying class B/C drugs is still quite a serious one.

As for the rumour, I hadn't heard it. Look at the fortunes of the cannabis cafe in stockport for what is likely to happen.

On the other hand, there used to be a great Cafe in Hull (The Green Room). It didn't tout itself as a cannabis cafe, and there was never any on sale there, but people would smoke weed in there all day. The Police knew, but given that the cafe didn't cause any trouble they never intervened.

Phanerothyme's right. There is no legal 'loopholes'. All the proprietors need to do is put up a sign saying "The smoking of any illegal substances is not permitted on these premises" and they can disclaim any resposibility in the event of a police raid.

Originally posted by "Moon Maiden"

Shame really - I know of at least 5 people who benefit medically from cannabis.

Moon Maiden

Some of us would have you believe that thousands would benefit from the therapeutic effects of this ancient medicine.... no matter what your state of health. Especially if it wasn't mixed with that dodgy tobacco toxic stuff all the time :lol: !

Well - I think a canabis cafe would be theraputic for sheffield society - I mean you are hardly gonna get a multitude of riots there are you??

Moon Maiden

A friend suffers with CIDP which is a muscle wasting condition and causes much pain to many joints. Prescribed pain killers are effective but a side effect of these causes loss of breath after walking short distances and lack of energy. Some time ago she came across the above substance and willing to try anything that might help she included some in a pancake mix. The effect was amazing, she had complete pain relief for 4 days but a side effect was a very high pounding heart rate. She has not used it since but I am sure that if it was prescribed correctly and considered in conjunction with medication already being taken for high blood pressure it would give safe relief from pain at a reasonable cost rather than lining the pockets of the illegal producers and dealers causing cost on the street at around 20GBP per gram.

Vin

Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it.

'Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it'

What do you base your assumptions on? what effect does 24 hours of pain have on mental health? do you know anyone who suffers with CIDP? have you the slightest idea what CIDP is? are you a regular cannabis user? what are you learning at SHU?
_________________

I'm just imagining what it would be like to meet up with some of the people off this board in a sheffield cannabis cafe. Skin up a fat skunky joint and the arguments would soon be a lot less stress-filled...!

Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

I'm just imagining what it would be like to meet up with some of the people off this board in a sheffield cannabis cafe. Skin up a fat skunky joint and the arguments would soon be a lot less stress-filled...!
You're on!

First one to open a cannabis cafe wins!

Originally posted by "vin rigby"

What do you base your assumptions on? what effect does 24 hours of pain have on mental health? do you know anyone who suffers with CIDP? have you the slightest idea what CIDP is? are you a regular cannabis user? what are you learning at SHU?
You've come back a bit strong. There's loads of research that proves that regular cannabis use causes mental illness such as severe depression and schizophrenia. I acually know someone who was a regular dope smoker and he was admitted into a mental institution suffering from schizophrenia. I also have other friends who have started smoking cannabis regularly and their entire personality has changed.

I'm not argueing that there can't be medical advantages to cannabis, but if cannabis is medically beneficial then it should be perscribed by a doctor and not obtained illegally. I have no problem with people who smoke the drug for recreational perposes on a regular basis, it's their decision, but people should be aware of the risks. I have tried the drug in the past and I must admit I quite enjoyed the experience, but I would never do it regularly due to the long-term risk to my health.

I'm doing Computer & Network Engineering at SHU, but what the hell that's got to do with it I have no idea.

For some back-up to this post, see here (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/schizophrenia.jsp).

...but if cannabis is medically beneficial then it should be perscribed by a doctor and not obtained illegally....

This is exactly the point I was making. So you agree that there should be some form of legalisation that would allow it to be medically prescribed if proven to be benificial? Smoking the stuff for pleasure I think is insane.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it.

I think it would be more reasonable to say that regular cannabis use can contribute and exacerbate to mental illness in susceptible individuals.

Cannabis has positive and negative effects, just like everything else we ingest for our own pleasure.

That in itself is not a reason to prohibit its use.

Originally posted by "vin rigby"

This is exactly the point I was making. So you agree that there should be some form of legalisation that would allow it to be medically prescribed if proven to be benificial? Smoking the stuff for pleasure I think is insane.
It already can be perscribed by a doctor as far as I know, unless I have my facts mixed up somewhere along the line.

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it.

I think it would be more reasonable to say that regular cannabis use can contribute and exacerbate to mental illness in susceptible individuals.

Cannabis has positive and negative effects, just like everything else we ingest for our own pleasure.

That in itself is not a reason to prohibit its use.
It is really, because if everybody was smoking cannabis all the time then there'd be a lot of dangerous people out there.

See also: http://www.observer.co.uk/drugs/story/0,11908,930771,00.html

Originally posted by "Sidla"

It already can be perscribed by a doctor as far as I know, unless I have my facts mixed up somewhere along the line.

CIDP is not yet prescribable, my friend has spoken to her GP and he confirmed this some time ago. I believe it is legally prescribable for MS sufferers.

Well in that case the doctors don't believe it to be beneficial. I'm not saying wether it is or isn't, but doctors should know best.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

This is exactly the point I was making. So you agree that there should be some form of legalisation that would allow it to be medically prescribed if proven to be benificial? Smoking the stuff for pleasure I think is insane.
It already can be perscribed by a doctor as far as I know, unless I have my facts mixed up somewhere along the line.
Nope. Cannabis is an illegal drug to posess, there are no 'Medical Marijuana Laws' as they have in California. There are synthetic cannabinoids available for presription, but these have quite a different effect to the plant material, in all respects.
Originally posted by "Sidla"


Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it.

I think it would be more reasonable to say that regular cannabis use can contribute and exacerbate to mental illness in susceptible individuals.

Cannabis has positive and negative effects, just like everything else we ingest for our own pleasure.

That in itself is not a reason to prohibit its use.
It is really, because if everybody was smoking cannabis all the time then there'd be a lot of dangerous people out there.


No it isn't really. Professor David Nutt, who gave evidence to the same home affairs comittee as Professor John Henry (the man in your link)
made it quite clear: Originally posted by "Professor David Nutt, Professor of Psychopharmacology at Brisol University"


481. You do not think there are schizophrenia dangers and all of that.
**(Professor Nutt) It may exacerbate schizophrenia in some people, may ameliorate some symptoms in other people. On balance there is probably a negative benefit in schizophrenia, but that is not a major public health problem.
So, just for the record - Cannabis does not *cause* mental illness, in any medical sense.

It's the smoking of cannabis, particularly with tobacco that causes the most damage.

And I definitely disagree with you on the point that legalization would neccessarily lead to a huge rise in consumption over the long term. Most decriminilization projects result in a jump in consumption that quickly tails off and a stable level emerges not significantly different from previous estimates.

Even if that were true, I don't think that would make them dangerous, even if they did develop schizophrenia (as your link seems to suggest). It's a terrifying disease, and quite a few men will have had some form of episode in their teens that resemble it. But it doesn't make you dangerous. It makes you lonely, confused, frightened, and utterly baffled by the world around you.
<edited several times to get quotations straight and added last 2 paras>

"What business is it of anyone what I eat, drink, smoke, listen to, watch or read as long as it doesn't infringe on the freedoms of other people?? None of your ******* business."

Well said Phanerothyme....

I think Sidla's views and many others are very narrow minded It is really, because if everybody was smoking cannabis all the time then there'd be a lot of dangerous people out there.



I really think you should hang out with some stoned people and read up a bit more on the science. 'Dangerous', that is a joke :lol: ! If you want to be taking this slant on a reason for not legalising dope, then we really should be making alcohol illegal. Alcohol is far more dangerous that dope, yet anyone can go out and buy it. Alcohol, causes damage to your liver, damages the brain, the digestive system, the nervous system and the heart, and it can change personalities completely. I have seen many people turn 'dangerous' from drinking too much alcohol....become very violent and verbally abusive :evil: . I also believe that this is because they are probably susceptible to this behaviour, just as someone who uses dope can be susceptible to a mental disorder ie. it is exacerbated by the drug of choice. Now we all know the effects of alcohol and many (included myself) choose to drink it in excess :D . Therefore, why can we not choose to smoke dope? If people are made aware of the 'very statistically small' chance of experiencing a reaction to dope and it is contraindicated in people who have existing 'mental' conditions, then I really don't see the problem. People deserve the right to choose surely? Ok, so if you want to believe that you may develop a mental disorder from smoking it regularly, then just don't do it. No-one is forcing you. But there are people out there (such as CIDP, MS, cancer suffers; musicians, normal happy go lucky people and depressed people who just want to forget for awhile) who are being forced to do something illegal. What damage are they doing to society by smoking it in their own homes? I feel particularly strongly for the people who are ill and rely on it and have to get it through illegal means. On top of all this, why waste tax payers money on policing this, when there are real problems that the police should be addressing out there.

To come out with a statement as you did

Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it. just angers me. Are you a scientist? Even the scientists who do research in this area can not conclude that it 'causes' mental illness.

you state There's loads of research that proves that regular cannabis use causes mental illness such as severe depression and schizophrenia. ....I think you'll find in your link that the words used were 'Cannabis *link* to mental illness strengthened' even then the studies undertaken are biased and not statistically viable. There really isn't any real evidence for a pharmacological mechanism leading to these 'mental disorders' however there is evidence showing that people who are predisposed to depression or schizophrenia are more likely to smoke it. Think about it.....and that was also in your article too, did you get bored reading it half way down once you were satisfied with your conclusions?

That all aside, there are a lot of benefits to smoking dope....as well as being a fantastic pain relief, it is also a fantastic relaxer for the stressed out people in this world. If more people chilled out a bit and relaxed, maybe the world wouldn't be in such a state!!! (I sound like a hippy now!).
Dope also, opens up your mind to deep thinking and music is a wonderful thing!
:D
PS. Hope you don't think I am having a go, I'm just putting my opinion out there, we are all entitled to it, same as you are! :wink:

There is scientific evidence to prove that there is a link between schitzophrenia and dope smoking. It may not be directly responsible in many people, but if everyone was subjected to cannabis regularly then I have no doubt that the number of people with mental illness will rise. I'm no scientist, and I admit that I'm fairly naive as far as drugs go. However, from past experiance I have seen the effect that cannabis has had on peoples lives. I have never seen someones life change for the better once they have started smoking cannabis regularly, and I think it's ridiculous to suggest that regular cannabis use could improve your life.

Well thats your opinion and you are entitled to it! I have also seen many peoples lives change for the better......have a look at my profile and you'll see what I do for a living! I also did some years research as a pharmacologist...

At least you have changed your phrasing to 'link' not cause! I'd like to see this evidence you speak of, please post more links as I am interested in this field...If you are refering to a few studies carried out on biased groups of candidates then I'm afraid I don't think this a statistically sound trial and the results are presented in an extremely biased way. Believe me I know how a trial should be conducted in order to make proper scientific conclusions!

What interests me is your use of:
but if everyone was subjected to cannabis regularly then I have no doubt that the number of people with mental illness will rise
Who is subjecting who?? Are you going to be held down and forced to take it regularly??...no, I thought not! As I said in my previous post, please read it again...we will all have the freedom to choose. If we chose to take it for pain relief then that is our choice and if we chose to take it for recreational use then that is our choice, if we chose to take it because we are depressed, again that is our choice, just as it is our choice to get out of our faces regularly on alcohol and damage ourselves more than dope ever would. Do you think alcohol should be illegal by the way? Have a look at the statistics for deaths from alcohol, crimes related to alcohol and violence related to alcohol and compare that to cannabis.

Read my post again and try to keep an open mind!
I am sorry if you have witnessed friends having a bad time smoking in the past...it does and can happen, I do not deny that (in a small minority) but at the end of the day, that was their choice and they were obviously willing to do this regardless of whether it is legal or not.
I really don't think there would be a huge increase in users if it were legalised. In fact I think it would stay the same (see link below). It is freely available now so people can get it if they want it anyway...if it becomes legal, there may be a slight curiousity increase initially, but the novelty will wear off. Look at the Netherlands, the locals really can't be bothered with it. It is safer out there too as you can't drink alcohol in coffee shops so it doesn't get mixed. And you know what you are buying is good clean stuff. Are there lots of mentally ill people running round causing danger in the Netherlands?? No! Only the tourists who are having a good time! It is a shame that you think it "rediculous that cannabis could improve people lives".....I think alot of MS sufferers would strongly disagree with you there.

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread12464.shtml

http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/ille-e/presentation-e/korf-e.htm

Back to the original posting.....coffee shops are the way to go....if you don't agree with it, then don't come in!

Thanks to all for your informative postings. I would like to believe that in the near future positive medical benefits can be researched and found for CIDP (chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy) and similar sufferers. The information on 'synthetic cannabinoids' is of interest and I will pass this on.

Originally posted by "Foxxx"


Who is subjecting who?? Are you going to be held down and forced to take it regularly??...no, I thought not!
True, but a lot more people would smoke cannabis if it was legal.

Originally posted by "Foxxx"

Do you think alcohol should be illegal by the way? Have a look at the statistics for deaths from alcohol, crimes related to alcohol and violence related to alcohol and compare that to cannabis.
Maybe, but it'd be a bit impractical. People have been drinking since the dawn of time. I do think smoking should be banned though.

Can't be arsed argueing with the rest of it, it's obvious opinions aren't going to change.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

True, but a lot more people would smoke cannabis if it was legal.

That argument has no validity whatsoever. There is absolutly nothing to suggest this would happen.

I am all for legalising cannabis. It makes no sense for it to be illegal. All you're doing is lining the pockets of gangsters and criminals (by this I mean real criminals not harmless pot smokers).

Legalise it, take away the criminal element, allow people to buy it without having to come into contact with hard drugs. The "war" against cannabis will never be won, it's time people pulled their heads out of the sand and admitted that millions of people smoke it, enjoy it and cause no problems to society at all, unlike people who get ****ed out of their heads every weekend.

Originally posted by "steelblade"

True, but a lot more people would smoke cannabis if it was legal.

That argument has no validity whatsoever. There is absolutly nothing to suggest this would happen.
Of course there is! If it was widely available in shops rather than some shadey bloke on the corner, more people would buy it and feel comfortable doing so.

refer to my previous link on the legalisation of cannabis in Netherlands. This study showed that there was a stabilisation if not a slight decrease in the number of users once it became legal.

It all depends on how much you smoke. If you have the odd one or two, then there is no harm, just like alcohol.

But, have too much - just like anything - then it's obviously going to be bad for you. Too much alcohol destroys your liver, too many cigarettes rot your lungs, but they are not banned, nor are you restricted to a certain amount. It's all down to saying you've had enough and stopping, and that is one thing that people in this country cannot do.

This is why we have such dire licensing hours compared to Europe. I have just (six hours ago) come back from France. They serve alcohol from 9am to 2am but there are no drunks, graffiti, vomit, discarded food or smashed glass or fights anywhere, because they know to drink in moderation and when to stop.

I hope we do get a cafe and a nice reliable source of some grade A skunk!

BUN DA WEED!

I've set up a poll....lets see what people think hey! This is a more general argument now, we kind of went off on a tangent on whether cannabis should be legalised rather than talking about the cannabis cafe, so lets see what peoples views are on the legalisation of cannabis.

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=834

Although i am in favour of a cannabis cafe, nothing can encaputlate (think that's the right spelling) of a Amsterdam cafe.

yeah, they are rather cool.... a lot of people just chilling out, drinking nice tea and listening to good tunes! There are some good coffee shops in Rotterdam, and in Den Haag too!

Totally agree foxx
i'm off to the dam in 3 weeks time Not really any place in sheff for cafe or am i just gettin too old

lol! No you're never too old :)
I think if they have one in Sheffield, it should have an outside bit to it with plants and patio heaters...how cool that would be, although there is bound to be people that complain about the smell drifting about!

Have a good time in amsterdam..I'm jealous, I've not been for a while now. I try to go at least once a year, so I must be about due for a visit!

Have you been to any of the museums?
Has anyone else?

I've been to The Rijksmuseum, The Van Gogh museum and the Sex Museum. They were all great for rather different reasons!!

"..because they know to drink in moderation and when to stop. "

A common myth. In fact, one in three road deaths in France are linked to drunk driving.
See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2265058.stm

How did that end up here? :oops:

Originally posted by "baublebag"

"..because they know to drink in moderation and when to stop. "

A common myth. In fact, one in three road deaths in France are linked to drunk driving.
See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2265058.stm

That's not really a factor though, because in general, French driving standards are appauling with less of a police presence on the roads than in the UK.

I dont agree with cannabis cafe, the police should stamp down on them immediately, where would it lead if they were allowed, underage drug addicts, drop outs, more crime, heroin addicts, more rapes, violence, no the thought is outrageous.

I dont agree with pubs, the police should stamp down on them immediately, where would it lead if they were allowed, underage alcoholics, drop outs, more crime, heroin addicts, more rapes, violence, no the thought is outrageous.

... do you see my point? :)

Seriously though, where's the link between cannabis and rape?

Also, as one of my friends used to say, smoking weed really isn't to blame for violence or crime because they're all too stoned to do anything.

I can (kind of) see where you got the "heroin addicts" link from though - but not everyone who smokes pot is going to turn to heroin.

I've never smoked it and never will - but I believe they should legalise/license it. That way the government could tax it and make a fortune... which would hopefully mean I could pay less tax! :lol:

I think a cannabis cafe in Sheffield would be cool

Originally posted by "ostercy"

I think a cannabis cafe in Sheffield would be coolYeah, real cool man 8) 8) :lol: :?

God alive, no. I'd get even less work done.

Sheffield Cannabis Cafe, so cool it's hot, an idea whose time has come!
Let's do it. If enough of us, all over Britain & across the world, keep on at this, sooner or later the hundreth monkey will indeed make all the difference. 'Sheffield Cannabis Cafe' is Meme & Strange Attracter...& if you don't know what I mean you definitely need the forthcoming Sheffield Cannabis Cafe!

:D

The best chance you have is to open a cafe with a tolerant approach to cannabis, but let the customers bring their own supply.

If anyone even gets a whiff of you selling the stuff you will be busted, but you can operate for many years by simply turning a blind eye.

If you have no complaints, no litter, no noise etc, then police will probably leave you alone, even if they know all your customers are stoners.

Halevan, your reasons for disagreeing with a cannabis cafe: Originally posted by "halevan"

I dont agree with cannabis cafe, the police should stamp down on them immediately, where would it lead if they were allowed, underage drug addicts
Underage drug addicts? You can only have underage drug addicts if the drugs they are addicted to are not to be sold to minors (i.e legal)
drop outs, more crime, heroin addicts, more rapes, violence, no the thought is outrageous.

really are specious to say the least. I would simply like to know where you get your information from or what experience you've had with cannabis that makes you believe what you said.

If you need a bit of plant to cheer you up and make you happy then youre very sad. I would warn you of all the health risks associated with it but to be honest the world would probably be a better place without losers like cannabis users (or any other recreational drug for that matter) so go ahead.. kill off the excuses for brains you have.

Originally posted by "kittykat"

If you need a bit of plant to cheer you up and make you happy then youre very sad. I would wan you of all the health risks associated with it but to be honest the world would probably be a better place without losers like cannabis users (or any other recreational drug for that matter) so go ahead.. kill off the excuses for brains you have.
I take it that you don't use any drugs for non medical purposes at all?

No, that would make me a hypocrite.

Originally posted by "kittykat"

No, that would make me a hypocrite.
so no:
Tea
Coffee
Coca Cola
Red Bull
Chocolate
Alcohol
Tobacco

then?
Fair Enough.

Ok. Tea = dont like, Coffee = disgusting, Coca cola = dont drink, too much sugar and generally not nice, Red Bull = no, never tried, Chocolate = no, too many calories, Alcohol = No, im teetotal and i hate the stuff and Tobacco = yeah right as if. Sorry youre not going to get me with that old trick.

yeah cos thats they're all on a par with cannabis aren't they.... i can see it now.... long term brain damage caused by cadburys dairy milk. tsk. the fact is that smoking tobacco is bad enough in terms of the disease it causes and thus the burden on the NHS... smoking cannabis is at least on a par with tobacco, although since its currently illegal, much worse. why encourage more people to smoke? we can't be discouraging tobacco smokers one minute while encouraging pot heads the next.

Hi Im a Loser. Im sat in my room eating dairy milk with a bunch of 'mates.' Its making us feel like....all floaty and stuff. We bought it off a dodgy dealer (newsagent down the road) and we're all waaaaaaaassssteddd!
I think ill go to chocaholics anonymous to help me with my problem.

There are a couple of cafes in London where they turn a blind eye, one in Brixton on in Kings Cross which is more blatant. But when we went there it was really boring and full of kids.

The music was annoying and the palce was dump to be honest.

Give me an armchair, a decent stereo and a group of good friends any day, that's the way to enjoy a smoke!

Just a thought.

:)

Originally posted by teemac
Is it true that there is going to be a cannabis cafe in Sheffield? Apparently it's being built next to the forum... Just a rumour I heard. Furthermore, how do these places get away with it? Surely it's illegal?

...I wish!!!

As someone said (unless you only ever ingest it by eating) its as least as dangerous as smoking so why campaign for more people to give themselves death sentences/adversely effect their mental health....
Thank f*** that pathetic legalisation campaign of a couple of years ago seems to have blown itself out...what an unholy alliance that was...MPs and media types who didnt know the hell what they were on about but who were so desperate to be down with "the kids" aligned with a load of dope-heads who were obviously only gonna mention the "positive" things...

Originally posted by gloworm
As someone said (unless you only ever ingest it by eating) its as least as dangerous as smoking

you neglect to mention vapourisation, where the plant material is heated but not burned, in order to vapourise the cannabinoids without producing pyrolitic toxins (carbon monoxide, 'tar', nitrous oxide etc).

This is certainly the medically preferred method of ingesting the plant material (the synthetic cannabinoids all come in pill or ampoule form).

With this method (and smoking bongs. spliffs etc) the dose can be self titrated (the user can take a little, wait for the effects, take some more until the desired level is reached)

and since eating it can result in an experience that is too strong or not strong enough with little chance for adjustment after ingestion (especially if you have eaten too much) it makes for a much better controlled experience.

Aslo, eating it can make the effects much more pronounced since the liver will aminate certain cannibinoid compunds (which contain no nitrogen - bizarrely) into tetrahydrocannivarin, a substance much more powerful then delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol (the most powerful agent in cannabis). So whilst you need more material to get any effects from eating, and less of the active ingredients pass the blood brain barrier, when you do get the effects they are quit different (sometimes) from smoking or vapourising the stuff.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sidla
[B]You've come back a bit strong. There's loads of research that proves that regular cannabis use causes mental illness such as severe depression and schizophrenia.


Your source is severely misinformed.

ONE medical survey, made public earlier this week, said that evidence suggests that the risks of developing mental illness are increased for regular cannabis users. That is a far cry from 'Cannabis causes mental illness'. I am unaware of any other 'surveys' that have arrived at similair conclusions - also be aware of the political background to this so-called 'survey' (ie: US State Dept 'commissioning' the survey to support a continuing anti-cannabis stance in the US Govt despite increasing public support for legalisation there too.

I have also read a report that had found that statistical evidence suggests that the toxins from Cigarette smoking can cause brain damage leading to various neuroses. Has the recent anti-marijuana report taken this into account? (No, in fact it has completely ignored these reports).

Another factor, completely ignored, much to my amazement is the possibility that people who are mentally ill could be more inclined to smoke hashish than those who are not - perhaps to relieve symptoms of anxiety or depression without resorting to highly addictive and potentially damaging synthetic prescription drugs. (Valium/Diazepam, Prozac, Seroxat etc etc).

Its no good simply stating 'over 55% of our psychiatric patients under the age of 30 were found to have used cannabis at some stage of their past'. It's likely that further studies would reveal that 80% had drunk alcohol and 91% had regularly watched TV. Maybe just under half could drive. Could spending two hours every morning and two hours every evening stuck in an oven of a car in a 12 mile traffic jam, listening to Hallam FM be a contributory factor in the development of mental illness, or is it without doubt the spliff that they have four miles into the gridlock, just to destress a little?

Please deal with facts. People you know. If you know nobody that smokes hash then youre either a nun or people are lying to you.

I know a lot of people that have used cannabis regularly for thirty years, have held down their job, never 'graduated' to hard drugs, never get depression and never get involved in punch-ups like hardcore drinkers do.

I think it would be a good idea to create an adults-only cannabis tolerant zone in the city, maybe the cultural industries quarter, complete with amsterdam style cafes. Allow legal sale of the stuff from 'licensed' dealers and plough the revenue back into city centre improvements. Lets face it, Sheffield has nothing else to offer tourists and we desperately need to develop some sort of strategy to increase prosperity in the city.

It seems a bit strange that people have said that a cannabis caf tolerated by the police would cause more crime when our societies other legal and widely available drug, alcohol, causes vast amounts of stret crime and property damage every week.

Do those who see the arrival of a cannabis cafe as a threat to our safety want to see all pubs and clubs in the city banned from selling alcohol?

Also I found the Weed user = heroin addict link that one person mentioned, hilarious. I've been smoking weed for around 8 years and, at least so far, have never felt the urge to shoot up.
The only reason that cannabis is a gateway drug is that the same people that sell it sell heroin and crack as well and it's in their interest to get people hooked on the harder stuff.

To me this is a stronger argument for the legalisation of cannabis with proper controls than an argument to continue with the expense and divertion of police resources to control something which is only a problem thanks to government propaganda and biased media coverage.

As far as the caf itself goes, i think those with visions of wild eyed crime hungry addicts roaming the streets looking for victims can sleep easy, it'll never be allowed.:evil:

no, but it will be tolerated eventually.

We can live in hope.

too expensive, nether edge more my budget...

nice one, Phanerotyme, that made me LOL, after trying to absorb the extensive chat on this topic.

Please deal with facts. People you know. If you know nobody that smokes hash then youre either a nun or people are lying to you.

...Absolutely true, where have you been for the last decade, Sidla? I would say "2 decades", but you are probably quite young. Your anecdotal evidence of people smoking weed and developing schizophrenia doesnt seem to be backed up by the exponential rise of the use of this wonderful, nay REMARKABLE herb..... IMHO!

I used to be happy before I took cannabis now we are not

Originally posted by tymr
nice one, Phanerotyme, that made me LOL, after trying to absorb the extensive chat on this topic.



...Absolutely true, where have you been for the last decade, Sidla? I would say "2 decades", but you are probably quite young. Your anecdotal evidence of people smoking weed and developing schizophrenia doesnt seem to be backed up by the exponential rise of the use of this wonderful, nay REMARKABLE herb..... IMHO!

*Insert ILLEGAL before the "herb" part. For some reason this is now over looked by most people with regards to most recreational drugs, but, by itself, is enough to stop me.

Originally posted by t020
*Insert ILLEGAL before the "herb" part. For some reason this is now over looked by most people with regards to most recreational drugs, but, by itself, is enough to stop me.

Stop you? You make it sound like you feel an inexorable desire to smoke draw, but the fact it is illegal dissuades you. :D

The reason many people overlook (wilfully ignore) the laws on cannabis is the same reason most people ignore the laws on mince pies, christmas puddings and being drunk in pubs - cos they are unworkable, silly laws that should be repealed (I think the mince pie one might have been - if it ain't an urban myth that is).

*Insert ILLEGAL before the "herb" part. For some reason this is now over looked by most people with regards to most recreational drugs, but, by itself, is enough to stop me.

illegal for what reason/s exactly... I believe you may find marijuana is illegal NOT for any medical reasons.

Jesus, is everyone in Nether Edge a pothead?

Yes.

And my name's not Jesus

;)

Originally posted by t020
Jesus, is everyone in Nether Edge a pothead?

there are more of us than you think, and we are coming to eat your childrennnnnnnnnn......

kittykat -

To quote Adam Ant: "don't drink, don't smoke [or eat chocolate, drink tea or coffee etc], what DO you do?"

There should not be a cannabis cafe allowed anywhere, but particularly not in Sheffield, it is illegal and dangerous, but that is only my humble opinion.

didcha, any of you, catch the bit on tv over the weekend that came up with a reason why cannabis is illegal?
Because they did it in America due to the influx of illegal immigrants from Mexico. In order to stop people hiring the immigrants during a time when good stout citizens needed jobs, they made up a neat little story about them being crazed and murderous due to...cannabis.
Then they had to make it look good, and there soon followed a campaign against the evils of cannabis (it being too naughty to say anything too bad about Mexicans). In the amazing way americans have, they really went for it hook line and sinker. Has anyone here ever seen the old american ads against cannabis? An amazing and entertaining flight of fantasy,,,and so many people fell/fall for it...
Britain felt it necessary to show solidarity, and here we are. The fallout from a war against illegal immigration.

Interesting facts:
Henry VIII fined people who didn't grow it on their farms.
Everyone knows this, but Victoria used it to calm period pains.
In the 1990s the European Union actually spent time and money making up a list of other herbs that should be banned. These included coltsfoot, which grows wild in this country and has no particularly evil constituents. Only, people used to smoke it years ago for sore throats.

Originally posted by halevan
There should not be a cannabis cafe allowed anywhere, but particularly not in Sheffield, it is illegal and dangerous, but that is only my humble opinion.
Certainly whilst cannabis is illegal, cannabis cafes are not going to spring up anywhere, so you can rest easy on that score. They tried in Stockport, but without much luck.

Cannabis is less dangerous than tobacco, more dangerous than milk. Both of which are freely available. The reason it is illegal is through historic precedent, and not through any rational debate in the legislature.

Whatever you may think about drugs and all, Hal, would you agree that british drug law is a mess, and unworkable, and should be redrafted from the ground up?

Perhaps not, but I'm hoping that we might agree that reform is in order, even if we will never agree as to what reforms need to be made.

Originally posted by cosywolf
Interesting facts:
Henry VIII fined people who didn't grow it on their farms.
throats.
True, but they weren't smoking it. In fact they couldn't as commercial hemp grown for fibre (rope) contains virtually no active ingredients at all (shame).

There is a little cannabis being grown under home office licence in this country, and I know where!

I do too. Maybe more than most think. e.g. re-enactors can grow it with a licence if they can prove legitimate use.

There's a small plot at the Eden project in Cornwall (which is def. worth a visit if you're down there) and about 240 acres near Exeter that i know of.

Since they can distinguish between different crops using satellites, and can easily distinguish between a hemp drug crop and a hemp fibre crop, I really can't see why they are so restrictive.

It's a totally benign plant with good environmental credentials, that is potentially a viable source of energy amongst other things.

>Cannabis is less dangerous than tobacco, more dangerous >than milk. Both of which are freely available. The reason it is >illegal is through historic precedent, and not through any >rational debate in the legislature.


I cant believe people are still coming out with this rubbish about cannabis being less dangerous than tobacco...how do you work that out. There's actually probably more poisons in cannabis than tobacco. Thats the physical side.

Then add the mental problems which affect at least some dope smokers though I havent heard off too many tobacco smokers with mental illness from their drug of choice have you?

A friend of mine had a heart attack at 33 because he smokes skunk for so many years. What happened wa that is wore away some of the lining around one of his artery's around his heart. He now can't work ever again, get over stressed (physical or mental) and has a very low quality of life.... all due to smoking weed!

Weed may not be as bad as other drugs, but dont kid yourself.. it IS bad!

Smoking anything is bad for you. I've heard of somebody getting throat cancer after having five spliffs when they were at college, but of course that's pretty unlucky.

Did your friend smoke pure skunk, or did he mix it with tobacco?

Cannabis use can exacerbate existing mental problems. I don't think anyone should think any narcotic is completely benign.

I like the old adage "what goes up must come down". Hence you get a hangover after drinking, rough lungs after smoking, depression after ecstasy, etc, etc.

I don't know if it was pure skunk or mixed with tobacco... but the Dr's did tell him his condition was due to the drugs he smoked.

Originally posted by gloworm
I cant believe people are still coming out with this rubbish about cannabis being less dangerous than tobacco...how do you work that out. There's actually probably more poisons in cannabis than tobacco. Thats the physical side.

Then add the mental problems which affect at least some dope smokers though I havent heard off too many tobacco smokers with mental illness from their drug of choice have you? [/B]

Spending £35 a week on a drug that does nothing but calm the craving for the drug, makes your breath smell and kills you pretty much qualifies as insane.

As to your point about how much more dangerous Cannabis is than Tobacco.

Well, it's mostly a question of quantity. A 'standard' tobacco smoker (20 a day) can get through 15-20 grams of freon inflated tobacco with anything up to 600 additives (http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/druginfo/additives.html). A dedicated cannabis smoker (5-7 pipes or bongs/day)can get through 3-4 grams a day (although for most smokers 3 grams will last all week) of cannabis flowering tops with no additives.

So put head to head, regular smokers of cigarettes will inhale 5 times as much smoke as heavy cannabis smokers. That's 500% more carcinogens.

Despite all the additives the smoke from the two products is not really very different in terms of carcinogens. You can see a comparison of results from Gas Chromatograph analyses of Tobacco and Cannabis smoke here (http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info3.shtml)

So heavy 'cannabis only' smokers actually ingest about a fifth to a tenth of the amount of carcinogens that a moderate cigarette smoker.

But a heavy cigarette smoker (40 a day - 32 grams) will ingest as much as 100 times the amount of carcinogens ingested by a moderate (.3 - .5 grams a day) cannabis smoker.

The links between Cannabis and Mental Illness, such as schizophrenia is not proven. There are certainly links between the two, but there is a paucity of high quality research on the subject, largely because it is illegal, and experimental studies are difficult and expensive to organise.

Cannabis is not risk-free. It is harmful. I'm not denying that for a moment. But that does not in any way mark it out as anything special.

But as far as this debate goes, I do think that:
a)as adults we should be permitted to make our own decisions about what we take into our bodies.
b)keeping a drug prohibited exacerbates the negative effects of the drug (i.e prohibition in the US).
c)users of illegal drugs are very hard to criticise effectively because they are 'outside' the law already. Witness the success of the drink driving campaign over the last 20 years where drink driving went from socially acceptable to social pariah. If alcohol had been illegal, that campaign would not have been possible.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
A friend of mine had a heart attack at 33 because he smokes skunk for so many years. What happened wa that is wore away some of the lining around one of his artery's around his heart. He now can't work ever again, get over stressed (physical or mental) and has a very low quality of life.... all due to smoking weed!

Weed may not be as bad as other drugs, but dont kid yourself.. it IS bad!

True, but your friend is very, very unlucky. I've searched medline and the bmj and the new scientist, and cannot find any suggested link between cannabis use and thinning of artery lining. Smoking tobacco certainly can contribute to atherosclerosis (fatty plaque deposits) so cannabis will do that also. but that is a thickining of the coronary artery lining, not a wearing away. Any idea what the condition was called?

I dont actually... I will ask him though and get back to you.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
True, but your friend is very, very unlucky. I've searched medline and the bmj and the new scientist, and cannot find any suggested link between cannabis use and thinning of artery lining. Smoking tobacco certainly can contribute to atherosclerosis (fatty plaque deposits) so cannabis will do that also. but that is a thickining of the coronary artery lining, not a wearing away. Any idea what the condition was called?

What does 'thickining' mean? I've searched Google but can't make any sense of it.

Originally posted by t020
What does 'thickining' mean? I've searched Google but can't make any sense of it.
Heh, if you really had searched google for 'thickining' (I've saved you the trouble here (http://www.google.com/search?q=thickining&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)) you would immediately be asked:
Did you mean: thickening

and then you would get 184 hits on academic papers.

But since you asked, it's a misspelling. Obviously.

What??? YOU made a spelling mistake? Surely not.

Originally posted by t020
What??? YOU made a spelling mistake? Surely not.
I was going to ask why you lied about searching google, but then we'd be dritfing off the topic of 'Cannabis Cafe in Sheffield' (well, were pretty far off it already, but still relevent at least).

Any other baffling errors in my post that I can clear up for you? :)
there are three deliberate errors here just for you t020

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Any other baffling errors in my post that I can clear up for you? :)


"then" should have 3 ns - "thennn" - tut tut...

Next time there's a free party on the Devonshire Green, I advise everyone (including you, Halevan), to get yourselves down and find me. I will get you all mildly caned for free, and you can see for yourselves what the effects are like. Yes, you'll be participating in illegal behaviour, but if you can ignore that for the three minutes it will take you'll have a cracking time.

Any takers/tokers?

Waxy Chuff, don't go getting yourself arrested for conspiracy to supply will you?

Don't expect too much from your first experience of cannabis. Some first users never experience any effects at all. However if Waxy feeds you some locally grown white widow or kalashnikov then you may experience feeling conspicuous or anxious. Avoid this by only taking a very small amount at first and leave it for at least 20 minutes to allow the effects to develop. If nothing, take a little more and do the same. Bring a pair of mirror shades for psychic comfort, relax and enjoy the nuances of the music, the whiteness of the clouds and the general ambience of the gathering.

Shall I bring some nice fresh mushrooms?

A few liberty caps, just enough to open up the space without propelling you into it. No finer way to spend a sunny afternoon listening to music and tuning in to the hum of the earth.

All perfectly legal and (relatively) safe.

...feeling anxious/paranoid the first time? how about the people who feel like that every time or after smoking for years suddenly start feeling like that or a lot worse.

And before the old "medical tests havent shown any proven link between dope and mental illness" line is trotted out I think I'll mention the amount of people I've known personally even if only to talk to them at a party/rave/club who can never touch the stuff again due to how messed up they got on it.

Originally posted by gloworm
...feeling anxious/paranoid the first time? how about the people who feel like that every time or after smoking for years suddenly start feeling like that or a lot worse.
Cannabis isn't mandatory - if it messes you up, don't take it. Same can be said for any activity, I don't see how that changes anything. Waxy's point is that many people find it a pleasant and subtle psychedelic with few drawbacks. If your first toke on a spliff sends you into an anxiety attack, then I'd definitely leave it alone.

And before the old "medical tests havent shown any proven link between dope and mental illness" line is trotted out I think I'll mention the amount of people I've known personally even if only to talk to them at a party/rave/club who can never touch the stuff again due to how messed up they got on it.
You actually failed to mention the amount of people who got permanently messed up on this. What were their diagnoses? Anecdotal evidence like this should certainly play a part in any research done on the subject, but in and of itself, it doesn't count for much.

It pays to deal with facts, and it takes research to establish them in the first place.

In the UK we have a very well established culture of peer review in journals. Published research on the effects of smoking cannabis is inconclusive, simply because there isn't enough research to tell us either way. Also, because of prohibition, most research is funded by pro/anti lobbies who will skew the results to their own ends as much as they can without compromising the broad accuracy of the report (i.e 'spin').
I certainly recognise that susceptible individuals can respond to cannabis in very negative ways, but millions use it regularly and really only suffer the same kind of ill effects as tobacco smokers. In some cases it will aggravate mental health problems. Just like drink. There is also evidence that shows that people with mental illness sometimes find cannabis alleviates their symptoms, as well as those for whom cannabis aggravates their symptoms.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
I was going to ask why you lied about searching google, but then we'd be dritfing off the topic of 'Cannabis Cafe in Sheffield' (well, were pretty far off it already, but still relevent at least).

Any other baffling errors in my post that I can clear up for you? :)
there are three deliberate errors here just for you t020

1) What does "dritfing" mean?
2) Don't you mean "we're", not "were"? Don't forget apostrophes.
3) What does "relevent" mean? The nearest match that I assume you meant to say is "relevant".

Not very challenging Phanerothyme, and very off topic, but all good fun.

>You actually failed to mention the amount of people who got >permanently messed up on this. What were their diagnoses? >Anecdotal evidence like this should certainly play a part in any >research done on the subject, but in and of itself, it doesn't >count for much.

In actual fact the figure may be only "a few" but this is in any case academic as my post was in response to those which seemed to be inveigling people who had never smoked before into having a toke by saying "as long as you take x amount and are on your guard for this particular side effect" you should be sorted".

I myself am still involved in a scene where consumption of (Class A yet alone B) drugs can be conservatively said to be "pretty widespread" (although I myself have not partaken for nearly 2 years) and think it is up to every responsible adult to make up their own minds what they choose to put in their bodies. However I think it is morally dubious at the least to make the indulging in drugs seem attractive by only biggin' up their "positive" side of a forum read by some who will be impressionable and/or naive.

Originally posted by gloworm
However I think it is morally dubious at the least to make the indulging in drugs seem attractive by only biggin' up their "positive" side of a forum read by some who will be impressionable and/or naive.

I think we're probably agreed that whilst cannabis is far from harmless, either physically, psychically or socially, it is a substance that is enjoyed, habitually but in moderation, without excessive negative effects by many, many people.

I just posted to warn anyone considering Waxy Chuff's offer to be aware that large sudden doses of cannabis can cause confusion leading to feelings of anxiety, and how this might best be avoided. Harm Reduction , as it were. Comparably, three double whiskies in quick succession might prove troublesome for a teetotaller.

With any drug that you take for the first time, always take a tiny, tiny amount. This is known in scientific circles as 'nibbling'.

It's a way of seeing whether you are likely to have any adverse reaction and simultaneously minimising the amount of harm you can come to.

Hey, don't think you can come along and have loads of my drugs. You're getting two tokes and passing, right?

erm, I'm going to be tthe other side of town when you start handing spliffs out on devonshire green....

Have you ever attended a Smokey Bear Picnic?

Smokey bear picnic? Do tell.

http://www.lca-uk.org/displayitem.php?articleid=717

(I don't endorse the views of the LCA, btw I think they are guilty of what gloworm called : " biggin' up their "positive" side"

Maybe Smokey Bear should come for a picnic in Sheff?

I've been on a couple of legalise marches, but I prefer (due to certain career aspirations) to keep my smoking on the QT. Although a picnic in Sheffield would be sweet.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
I think we're probably agreed that whilst cannabis is far from harmless, either physically, psychically or socially, it is a substance that is enjoyed, habitually but in moderation, without excessive negative effects by many, many people.


Yes, taking cannabis can sure be harmful to ones psychic powers, ay phanerothyme?

Did you not mean 'psychologically'?

Originally posted by t020
Yes, taking cannabis can sure be harmful to ones psychic powers, ay phanerothyme?

Did you not mean 'psychologically'?
Ho hum. Your rhetorical question wants me to answer 'yes' but......

Psychologically is emphatically not what I meant.

I meant Psychically as in the adverb:
Psychically
adv. 1.Of, relating to, affecting, or influenced by the human mind or psyche

And of course as any fule kno:
Psyche
n 1: that which is responsible for one's thoughts and feelings; the seat of the faculty of reason; 2: the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life [syn: soul] 3: (Greek mythology) a beautiful princess loved by Cupid who visited her at night and told her she must not try to see him; became the personification of the soul [syn: Psyche]

Perhaps, since you're the only person who keeps tripping up over problematic use of language in my posts, you'd care to PM me instead, and I'll do my best to explain what I mean to you in nice, short, meticulously spelled words. :P

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Ho hum. Your rhetorical question wants me to answer 'yes' but......

Psychologically is emphatically not what I meant.

I meant Psychically as in the adverb:
Psychically
adv. 1.Of, relating to, affecting, or influenced by the human mind or psyche

And of course as any fule kno:
Psyche
n 1: that which is responsible for one's thoughts and feelings; the seat of the faculty of reason; 2: the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life [syn: soul] 3: (Greek mythology) a beautiful princess loved by Cupid who visited her at night and told her she must not try to see him; became the personification of the soul [syn: Psyche]

Perhaps, since you're the only person who keeps tripping up over problematic use of language in my posts, you'd care to PM me instead, and I'll do my best to explain what I mean to you in nice, short, meticulously spelled words. :P
LMFAO @ Phanerothyme

Well done that man! t020, you got owned!

Ho hum. Well now I know. Cannabis doesn't affect one psychologically, but psychically instead. Hmmm. Or maybe you did just use the wrong word but have managed to dig yourself out of a hole?

PS. DaBouncer, whats that brown stuff all over your nose?

come on lads dont go down that road again ;)

Sorry... it was chocolate.

Originally posted by t020
Ho hum. Well now I know. Cannabis doesn't affect one psychologically, but psychically instead. Hmmm. Or maybe you did just use the wrong word but have managed to dig yourself out of a hole?

PS. DaBouncer, whats that brown stuff all over your nose?
Well, actually I would agree that it does affect you psychologically in that your responses to psychological evaluation would be different after using cannabis, and also in the long term as an habitual cannabis user; but what I meant was that cannabis can have ill-effects on your psyche, your sense of self and intention, if abused or an overpowering first dose is taken.

RPG is right, speaking as a perpetrator I've been here and it goes nowhere (even if it is hard not to give in to the desire).

Please don your flameproof suit.

Pruned

please dont argue about random things, this thread has gone *fairly* well upto now, so dont ruin it ;)

Handbags. Saucer of milk, table twelve.

Miaow.

I'd be well up for a cannabis cafe!

Tho history says that if there was one, it would get closed down as others have round the country

I cant beleive some of the stuff people on here are posting.
I'm 18 years old and have smoked cannabis on a (very) regular basis since i was 13/14. I got 10 GCSE's and have nearly completed my college course.
Number of rapes= 0
Number of hard drugs taken= 0
Number of ANY criminal offences= 0

If only you people would stop believing all this anti-cannabis propaganda you're being fed in the papers (eg. MAN KILLS FAMILY AFTER GOING MAD ON CANNABIS) then you'd realise what a beautiful herb it is.

My typical friday night consists of going round to a friends house, buying an 1/8th of fresh cannabis and watching films all night long.

I could be in a pub getting sloshed, having fights, damaging public property etc. but i detest alcohol. Although I detest it, I would not have it banned because each to their own. Even though it kills hundreds of people a year.


....Get my point? We're not all braindead louts.

I cant beleive some of the stuff people on here are posting.
I'm 18 years old and have smoked cannabis on a (very) regular basis since i was 13/14. I got 10 GCSE's and have nearly completed my college course.

snip
....Get my point? We're not all braindead louts.

the irony is superb, a dope smoker responding angrily to a 5 year old thread. must've kept forgetting to reply :hihi:

Well if a cannabis cafe did open I don't think I'd be visiting pubs on a night out.

....Get my point? We're not all braindead louts.

You need to chill out man.

You need to chill out man.

My sentiments exactly. What's the point of joining an internet forum and ranting on a 5 year old conversation. You're not exactly going to change the world or even sheffield's attitude to it.

great thread.. i missed it the first time so am glad it got dragged back up and I think Sheffield could do with a coffeeshop of two... i used to live in Amsterdam and was there during Euro 2000. It was great to see how calm all the football fans/holligans became after a spliff or two... a few days later I saw some of the same faces rioting in Belgium Bars on the TV News.

From a personal perspective my brother was a very heavy user from about the age of 14 and became severely schizophrenic. I'm sure there was a link. He smoked religiously and went on about how great it was. By the end he was in a psychiatric ward on a permanent section where he died. He would rarely talk but believed and did strange things, had audtitory and somatic hallucinations and was sometimes violent and very unpredictable. RIP Thomas.
I also have smoked and hung out with smokers and anyone who says it's not addictive is kidding themselves. It can become a full time hobby in itself and leave you foggy all the next day or even longer, not even talking about the paranoia.
I think that if it were legalised people, especially younger adults would think cool it must be ok then and get completely wasted all the time. We British like our parties.
Despite what happened to my brother members of my family still smoke it but not as ardently. Maybe he would have been like that anyway, but he was a devotee and I know many others who have become mentally ill from drugs, from short term paranoia spells to longer term psychotic episodes for the rest of your life.
Sure I agree with taking it for medicinal reasons but that's a far cry from turning into sofa veg barely talking.

the irony is superb, a dope smoker responding angrily to a 5 year old thread. must've kept forgetting to reply :hihi:

HA HA just noticed that one!:hihi:

Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it.The recent 'evidence' has been put forward by a group Christian doctors and is not at all convincing. The Government has bitten, largely because they wish to back-pedal in the light of perceived public disapproval, and this new 'evidence' gives their about-turn some 'legitimacy' and makes it less embarrassing for them. Some sources have indicated that elements within the Governement initiated this loosely organised group of Christain doctors and researchers.

It is not surprising that there is a link between mental illness and cannabis use, when you consider that working folk will have less time for 'recreational' activities, and those with pre-existing mental illness will be both less likely to work and more likely to have the time and opportunity to take drugs. The link is not causative though, and no one has presented any evidence to suggest that it is. It's just the link that has been presented. They obviously want you to think that there is more than just a link though.

Did you know that there is a strong link between Oil of Ulay and cancer: a higher proportion of those who use Oil of Ulay will develop skin cancer in the next five years than those who don't. This is because Oil of Ulay users are older and more likely to develop cancer because of their age (younger people have no need for moisturisers). Strong link, and well proven, but not causative! It is important to understand this, and important to know who is presenting the 'evidence'. Are they credible? Do they belong to a group with an axe to grind? Are they Christians?

I kind of understand what you're saying but no one can argue cannabis does have addictive properties and can trigger or be connected to underlying (or not) psychological disorders. However I do think that is only with certain personalities and usage and not quite how the government makes out.

Compared with alcohol and tobacco it is the safest recreational drug around. There is one reason only that it is illegal. Tax. Once the government can find a way to tax it and control it's distribution it will be legalized. As it is, anyone can grow the stuff so the government will never have the control they so dearly love. it has an addictive property on a par with mars bars so that theory is easily dismissed. Most people that use cannabis are relaxed and pleasant though prone to giggling at the silliest of things. significantly different to the drunken yobs that roam the streets at closing time and healthier than the cig smokers. As usual, once government starts its scare tactics the sheeple will happily be led by the nose.

I cant beleive some of the stuff people on here are posting.
I'm 18 years old and have smoked cannabis on a (very) regular basis since i was 13/14. I got 10 GCSE's and have nearly completed my college course.
Number of rapes= 0
Number of hard drugs taken= 0
Number of ANY criminal offences= 0

If only you people would stop believing all this anti-cannabis propaganda you're being fed in the papers (eg. MAN KILLS FAMILY AFTER GOING MAD ON CANNABIS) then you'd realise what a beautiful herb it is.

My typical friday night consists of going round to a friends house, buying an 1/8th of fresh cannabis and watching films all night long.

I could be in a pub getting sloshed, having fights, damaging public property etc. but i detest alcohol. Although I detest it, I would not have it banned because each to their own. Even though it kills hundreds of people a year.


....Get my point? We're not all braindead louts.
How sad that that is how you spend your Friday night and at 18 I would have thought that life has much more to offer than getting stoned.

Take a look at this link, nothing to do with Christians:

http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30

It includes this:
Psychiatrists began to wonder if cannabis could actually cause psychosis as well as make established psychosis worse. A famous study interviewed 50,000 conscripts into the Swedish Army about their drug consumption and followed them up. Those who were heavy consumers of cannabis at 18 were six times more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia over the next 15 years than those did not take it.

This year, Dutch epidemiologist Jim Van Os published the results of his study, in which 7,500 people were interviewed about their drug consumption and followed up for three years. Once again, regular consumers of cannabis were more likely to develop psychosis than those who didn't. Two other studies with similar findings are in progress.

It is perhaps surprising that it took the professionals so long to reach this conclusion. For example, it is widely accepted in Jamaica that too much ganja can cause paranoia. Several famous Rastafarians spent their last years incarcerated in Bellevue, the squalid mental hospital in Kingston, among them the legendary ska trombonist, Don Drummond.

Cannabis is now one of the biggest problems on in-patient psychiatric wards in England's major cities. It is common at Maudsley for those making progress to relapse suddenly. The explanation comes when a urine sample tests positive for cannabis. The same effect has been shown at Yale Medical School, where volunteers were given THC - the major active ingredient of cannabis - by injection. Psychotic symptoms could be produced in normal subjects, and people with schizophrenia had a brief exacerbation of their psychosis.


A recent study by
The British Journal of Psychiatry (2008 ) 192: 470-471. doi: 10.1192/bjp.bp.107.045740
© 2008 The Royal College of Psychiatrists

Again, nothing to do with Christians, found that adolescents were the most at risk:

Recent interest has focused on the association between cannabis use and risk of psychosis. In the largest unselected, population-based study on this topic to date, we examined cannabis use and prodromal symptoms of psychosis at age 15–16 years among 6330 adolescents. Those who had tried cannabis (n=352; 5.6% of the total sample) were more likely to present three or more prodromal symptoms even after controlling for confounders including previous behavioural symptoms (OR=2.23; 95% CI 1.70–2.94). A dose–response effect was seen. We conclude that cannabis use is associated with prodromal symptoms of psychosis in adolescence.



Course you could be fine, but maybe you do have a predisposition to mental illness. It's on the increase. I'm telling you paranoid schizophrenia is not at all fun, it's really grim and not worth taking the risk for.

I miss cannabis! :( However, I do feel much better without it (mentally and physically). Im all for a cannabis cafe opening though but I think it would have to be Amsterdam stylee where they are allowed to sell you the stuff too (maybe in small doses) - otherwise its basically just putting money in drug dealers pockets.

No matter whether cannabis is good or bad, it still funds organised crime. WHICH IS BAD

To be fair i have seen my friends really go down hill since they began to smoke the substance.

I think it should be legalised like it is in Amsterdam. For all you people say it is dangerous, perhaps you should look at real stats instead of what the Daily Mail feeds you on a regular basis

I think it should be legalised like it is in Amsterdam. For all you people say it is dangerous, perhaps you should look at real stats instead of what the Daily Mail feeds you on a regular basis

As far as I am aware, tt isn't legalised in Holland, it is merely tolerised and controlled. They've got it spot on actually.

I think that if it were legalised people, especially younger adults would think cool it must be ok then and get completely wasted all the time.

This is absolutely NOT the case in the Netherlands where a lower percentage of people smoke cannabis than here! I think you'll find it is often the illicitness of drugs that attracts many youngsters in the first place!

As far as I am aware, tt isn't legalised in Holland, it is merely tolerised and controlled. They've got it spot on actually.

i think you mean tolerated?!?

i think you mean tolerated?!?


Oops! Yep, thats the one. :)

A friend suffers with CIDP which is a muscle wasting condition and causes much pain to many joints. Prescribed pain killers are effective but a side effect of these causes loss of breath after walking short distances and lack of energy. Some time ago she came across the above substance and willing to try anything that might help she included some in a pancake mix. The effect was amazing, she had complete pain relief for 4 days but a side effect was a very high pounding heart rate. She has not used it since but I am sure that if it was prescribed correctly and considered in conjunction with medication already being taken for high blood pressure it would give safe relief from pain at a reasonable cost rather than lining the pockets of the illegal producers and dealers causing cost on the street at around 20GBP per gram.

Vin

Your friend needs to talk to her GP/pain management team about obtaining a prescription for Sativex.

Some of us would have you believe that thousands would benefit from the therapeutic effects of this ancient medicine.... no matter what your state of health. Especially if it wasn't mixed with that dodgy tobacco toxic stuff all the time :lol: !

Yes indeed, tymr..i quite agree...if used by those with enough self control, in small quantities and responsably by adults.. you can even get small vapourising elements now which actually heat the plant up without burning it you you are only inhaling the vapours, not smoke.

It pains me to witness the effects of the prohibition on the youth..uneducated as to its effects and driven underground, it is smoked in hazardous and totally OTT quantities, with large amounts of [un-filtered] tabacco ( thats like inhaling cigar smoke directly into your lungs..) But this is the tradition must have arisen in order to disguise the smoking of the herb; it was the thing which had me addicted to nicotene for ten years( now i am thankfully rid of that addiction.) "Joints", like this are without doubt very bad for you. I am not necessarily an advocate legalisation however. If we had an herbal epidemic the like of that we have with alcohol, which is due to people basically self medicating it would not be a good thing. We need to ask why young people feel the need to take any drugs... Honest education.

I miss cannabis! :( However, I do feel much better without it (mentally and physically).

Same here. I miss it, but cutting it from my life was one of the best moves I've ever made.

But this is the tradition must have arisen in order to disguise the smoking of the herb;

Rubbish! The reason its mixed with tobacco is so that its not as strong (still same strengh but its not all taken in 1 hit). Think of it as putting Coke (cola) in your drink with vodka.

This is absolutely NOT the case in the Netherlands where a lower percentage of people smoke cannabis than here! I think you'll find it is often the illicitness of drugs that attracts many youngsters in the first place!

Well I've been well ensconced,in every sense, in the Amsterdam scene, staying and working in a youth hostel there for 6 weeks so I know what it's like. I have also worked with a lot of Dutch people, most of whom were very disapproving of cannabis and particularly Amsterdam and they said most are like that. They think Amsterdam is not somewhere they would go to and it is mainly foreigners in the coffee shops and brothels. Even though it irks me to admit it, as they know it (!) I think they are a very intelligent race and much of their legislation is streets ahead of ours, but so are their personal attitudes on health. On my travels it has been the Brits and Americans smoking the most and the Brits drinking the most. What works for one nation doesn't necessarily work for another. Has 24 hours drinking curbed alcohol problems? No. Has the smoking ban cut down smoking? Yes.

Having said that I do agree to some extent with decriminalisation in theory, but on the other hand when I have experienced what it can do to people how can I advocate it being made more easily available, particularly for adolescents who are most at risk and the least experienced in making an informed decision and doing things in moderation?

Asst Mod Note-

Title changed as the thread was titled 'Cannabis cafe' and was opened years ago (2003), but appears to have resurfaced with a different slant!

James

As it is, anyone can grow the stuff so the government will never have the control they so dearly love.

And I could brew my own beer in the airing cupboard but I dont.

not sure if anyone else has said this already but a cafe couldn't work whether or not cannabis was legal since no one can smoke inside anymore.

i have a close friend who is, for want of a better word, an addict, while it doesn't appear to have affected his mental health yet, it has made him unemployable since he seems to be permanently stoned. He claims to have tried to give up but can only seem to last a few days before relapsing.

Well I've been well ensconced,in every sense, in the Amsterdam scene, staying and working in a youth hostel there for 6 weeks so I know what it's like. I have also worked with a lot of Dutch people, most of whom were very disapproving of cannabis and particularly Amsterdam and they said most are like that. They think Amsterdam is not somewhere they would go to and it is mainly foreigners in the coffee shops and brothels. Even though it irks me to admit it, as they know it (!) I think they are a very intelligent race and much of their legislation is streets ahead of ours, but so are their personal attitudes on health. On my travels it has been the Brits and Americans smoking the most and the Brits drinking the most. What works for one nation doesn't necessarily work for another. Has 24 hours drinking curbed alcohol problems? No. Has the smoking ban cut down smoking? Yes.

Having said that I do agree to some extent with decriminalisation in theory, but on the other hand when I have experienced what it can do to people how can I advocate it being made more easily available, particularly for adolescents who are most at risk and the least experienced in making an informed decision and doing things in moderation?

Having lived and worked in the Dam for 3 + years I think I can safely say there is a damn site more to that city than foreigners, coffeshops and brothels.... i think you are referring to the 1 km square area called the red light district.

Prostitution and Cannabis have been tolerated in Amsterdam for over 30 years now and statistically it is one of the safest cities in Europe.. they have less hard drug problems, less sexual attacks on women and lower rates of teenage pregnancy... whereas the states has a harder drugs policy and much bigger drug related problems in most of their cities.

My main reason for advocating legalisation is so that quality could be controlled, the product could be taxed and good advice could be made more available to users. At the moment we have many examples of cannabis contaminated with amongst other things silicon... this offers a far greater threat than smoking natural weed!

not sure if anyone else has said this already but a cafe couldn't work whether or not cannabis was legal since no one can smoke inside anymore.

Smoking ban refers to tabacco and has been implemented in the Netherlands too; now you are only allowed to smoke pure joints in the coffeeshops.

Anyone seen the documentary film The Union ?


a really informative film.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=The+Union+marijuana+film&spell=1

Having lived and worked in the Dam for 3 + years I think I can safely say there is a damn site more to that city than foreigners, coffeshops and brothels.... i think you are referring to the 1 km square area called the red light district.

There are coffee shops well out of the red light district or at least there were when I went. The coffee shops and brothels are a huge incentive for young travellers- to them that is what Amsterdam is about. Of course there is more to it, I did loads of other stuff too, but surely you concede that for many a tourist, often young males the main reason to go is to get absolutely wasted. It is also the reputation that Amsterdam has- that doesn't come from nowhere.

Prostitution and Cannabis have been tolerated in Amsterdam for over 30 years now and statistically it is one of the safest cities in Europe.. they have less hard drug problems, less sexual attacks on women and lower rates of teenage pregnancy... whereas the states has a harder drugs policy and much bigger drug related problems in most of their cities.

I agree cannabis does not cause aggression like alcohol does, my concern is not with the immediate effect but the shorter term demotivating aspect and longer term mental health risks to those with a predisposition.
Having said that I encountered far more strange men following me around there than I have anywhere else. If you do go into the red light district there are people trying to sell you hard drugs everywhere, it's not a nice atmosphere. I expect you don't go there very often but that is the essence of the tolerance, if you see what I mean.

My main reason for advocating legalisation is so that quality could be controlled, the product could be taxed and good advice could be made more available to users. At the moment we have many examples of cannabis contaminated with amongst other things silicon... this offers a far greater threat than smoking natural weed!

Great in theory, is all the weed in Amsterdam pure then? Because I've known many people suffer from overdoing it there. Where would this advice come from? How could young people really be made aware of the risks?

Great in theory, is all the weed in Amsterdam pure then? Because I've known many people suffer from overdoing it there. Where would this advice come from? How could young people really be made aware of the risks?

As you rightly suspect, not all the weed available in the Dam is natural and/or organic... skunk is a hybrid and most coffeeshops sell chemically inhanced hydroponically grown weed but there are a number offering bio organic and at least a couple which only sell bio/organic outdoor strains. I worked at the Cannabis College in the middle of the Red Light District for a couple of years, this is one of the many places you can get proper information regarding all aspects of cannabis in Amsterdam; from the law to growing to medicinal use. If you try to 'Talk to Frank' regards cannabis the bottom line is that it is illegal and so when it comes to questions of quality or contaminated weed they simply wont discuss it.

Cannabis doesn't cause paranoia, it occurs naturally because it is illegal. They actually ARE after you.
You get wasted and then it occurs to you that people ARE out to get you and arrest you, lock you up, take your herb and lots of your money for the pleasure.
It's confusing and quite a startling concept really. I'm not surprised people freak out sometimes. Imagine if you could be locked up for up to 2 (soon to be 5) years for having a bottle of wine in your house. Would that not drive you mad?
It is clear to anyone who actually has any idea what they're talking about that prohibition does more harm than good. Even if cannabis does directly cause mental health problems, and all the Daily Mail headlines are true and that one toke on a joint can make you crazy.
Should these people in question be targeted by the police and punished? It's unbelievably hypocritical of the government to use mental health problems as a reason to increase persecution.
It would be inhumane.
Everyone's different, everyone reacts differently and it doesn't work for everyone but it sure as hell doesn't harm anyone. Not in the way that alcohol, lard and salt do. Deaths caused by heart disease are immense in comparison, should sodium chloride be scheduled under class B?

Cannabis doesn't cause paranoia, it occurs naturally because it is illegal. They actually ARE after you.
You get wasted and then it occurs to you that people ARE out to get you and arrest you, lock you up, take your herb and lots of your money for the pleasure.
It's confusing and quite a startling concept really. I'm not surprised people freak out sometimes. Imagine if you could be locked up for up to 2 (soon to be 5) years for having a bottle of wine in your house. Would that not drive you mad?

I believe they are going to up the penalties and make the punishment an £80 fine.
They have realised cannabis smokers are everday working class folk whom can have £80 squeezed out of them like any other tax payer.

No matter whether cannabis is good or bad, it still funds organised crime. WHICH IS BAD

To be fair i have seen my friends really go down hill since they began to smoke the substance.It funds crime because it's illegal, and one has to buy it on the black market - no other reason.

This is absolutely NOT the case in the Netherlands where a lower percentage of people smoke cannabis than here! I think you'll find it is often the illicitness of drugs that attracts many youngsters in the first place!This would seem to be true.

It funds crime because it's illegal, and one has to buy it on the black market - no other reason.

But like other black markets it does have its fair share of 'little fish' who plow their ernings back into the economy.

A core government strategy on drugs should be to make sure all earnings from the trade of them are plowed back into the local economy.

Legalisation of small scale supply and strong opposition of large scale supply would be the best strategy.

But like other black markets it does have its fair share of 'little fish' who plow their ernings back into the economy.

A core government strategy on drugs should be to make sure all earnings from the trade of them are plowed back into the local economy.

Legalisation of small scale supply and strong opposition of large scale supply would be the best strategy.

I agree but I also think people should be allowed to grow a couple of plants at home should they wish.

No matter whether cannabis is good or bad, it still funds organised crime. WHICH IS BAD.

As a direct result of it's illegality.

Anyone watched the Union ?

watch that and then see if you still beleve all the tripe that they have fed us for years.

I see people already fighting over this. Apart from what anyone would like about it, legal or not, cannabis DOES trigger depression (which is a horrible thing and if you don't suffer from it or haven't seen anyone who suffers it you can't understand how bad it is) among other things. One of the other effects is that people tend to become really slow and indesisive. I know users would say 'that's not true!!!', but I've seen it time over time. Yes, of course if you are in great pain it may help. Everything is relative. Just wanted to share the medical point.

Sorry, just seen the post about prostitution. It is very sad that some people think it is ok for women to sell their bodies as long as 'they want to' and the State benefits from it as if it was their pimp. It is not true that prostitution prevents sexual attacks, since it actually encourages the continuation of treating women as pieces of rubbish you can use and abuse for a few quid. Yes, Holland has a good education system and kids are tought about their bodies and responsible sexual behaviour, such as using condoms. Most of prostitues clients in Amsterdam come from other countries.
I have seen these women and they don't seem very happy in these square meter room-windows, like pieces of flesh someone can buy and wipe themselves agains/inside of. I feel disgusted not by the women but the people who think it is ok to use them as trash because they allow it to happen. I feel disgusted by the men who think that they can abuse me by making sexual comments whilst I walk along with my 3 year old niece.
Don't really want to get into an argument because I know what I think and don't need people to convince me of the contrary, but for whoever it's out there, just a piece of advice, take it or leave it, do your research before taking a position and try not to repeat what people say without thinking about it.

I see people already fighting over this. Apart from what anyone would like about it, legal or not, cannabis DOES trigger depression (which is a horrible thing and if you don't suffer from it or haven't seen anyone who suffers it you can't understand how bad it is) among other things. One of the other effects is that people tend to become really slow and indesisive. I know users would say 'that's not true!!!', but I've seen it time over time. Yes, of course if you are in great pain it may help. Everything is relative. Just wanted to share the medical point.

CAN

ive been smoking it 20 years (not the past couple tho) and ive never suffered from depression, nor paranoia, IT CAN TRIGGER dormant mental health problems you already have , IT IS NOT A CAUSE OF

On the Cannabis causes depression/mental health issue...................

I find that people who have used cannabis regularly for many many years seem to me just fine, normal, level headed people....yet in recent years 'new' users seem to be suffering more and more ill effects, perhaps one reason for this is........

The 'old' school of smoking dope would smoke in such a way as to get 'mellow' and chilled and a quantity of say 1/4oz 'pot' would last them a week whereas nowadays, the 'new' users are smoking high strength 'skunk' and loading their spliffs in such a way as to 'get hammered' and a 1/4oz of skunk will last them a few days.............

Put another way, somebody who drinks say 2 cans of lager every night over many years is less likely to experience problems with their health as someone who drinks a bottle of jack daniels every night.

Just a theory. :)

discusting if they do, i hate the stuff, ruined my family and now my kids dont live with thier daddy no more

I did say TRIGGER, so no need for BIG LETTERS to TELL me that IT TRIGGERS DEPRESSION, thank you very much. Also, as I said, a user won't tell you 'yes, I'm slower'. Happy it hasn't affected you having smoked it for 18 years, congratulations.

I see people already fighting over this. Apart from what anyone would like about it, legal or not, cannabis DOES trigger depression (which is a horrible thing and if you don't suffer from it or haven't seen anyone who suffers it you can't understand how bad it is) among other things. One of the other effects is that people tend to become really slow and indecisive. I know users would say 'that's not true!!!', but I've seen it time over time. Yes, of course if you are in great pain it may help. Everything is relative. Just wanted to share the medical point.

It looked like a rant to me (as did the following post, but that was off topic). :)

But to make some of the 'rant' clear, are you talking about occasional use here, with the sections that I have highlighted? Or do you mean overuse?

I think it depends very much on the individual rather than the amount.

I think it depends very much on the individual rather than the amount.

Did someone else post your last 3 posts? :confused:

So it's the same as, say alcohol then?

:rolleyes:

what do you mean by someone else posting for me?
Don't even get me started with the alcohol. If you cannot do it sensibly then you shouldn't do it. About marihuana, do as you please, have it or not, cook with it if you like, it's not up to me to tell you what to do in your house to pass your time. The only thing that bothers me is when people say it doesn't affect you, it's just ridiculous.

what do you mean by someone else posting for me?
Don't even get me started with the alcohol. If you cannot do it sensibly then you shouldn't do it. About marihuana, do as you please, have it or not, cook with it if you like, it's not up to me to tell you what to do in your house to pass your time. The only thing that bothers me is when people say it doesn't affect you, it's just ridiculous.

totally agree, my ex became very moody without it, called me names was very nasty.

when he had it EVERYY SINGLE DAYYYYYY, he was very ignorant, always falling alseep, didnt even get off his lazy ass apart from to get his stuff to roll another, he used to sit next to me when kids were in bed with a jiont on the go, his head hanging down falling asleep, from about 8pm lol, he got that bad with it he even started to fall asleep while rolling one, hed have it in his hands and just nod off, id say for gods sake go to bed and stop rolling, if your that tired dont have one. hed then jump up and say no i was just resting my eyes, it became like living with a dozy, thick child. i used to force myself to stay up until he went to bed as i was so scared he fall asleep n kill us all. and if i did go up b4 i him i cud not sleep, id wiat an hour then go back down to check and low and behold--hed be bang out sat up, head lolling, actual saliva hanging from his sad pathetic mouth, he made me sick just to look at in the end.

id say things to him about the kids and then when mentioned later on he wud not remember, he always sed he had no money for the bills and kids yet spend a tenner per day on that stupid stuff. he was warned over 5 years to stop and put his family first, he never did, i had enuff one day and packed his bags while he was at work, best thing i ever did, my house dont smell no more, i dont have burn holes in my furniture from him falling asleep with it in his hand, i dont have an extra child to take care of, i have more money, i self respect, i dont have ppl knocking on my door at any hour for a spare joint or to see if he wanted more. so in my experiance canibis ruins lives and familys ad i HATE it.

now when i meet a guy the first thing is ask is if they smoke it and if they say yes, then its bye bye, ill never ever let a drug control my life no more.

and one more thing THE PARANIOA, omg i hated it, he got to the piont of wanting to know why i was wearing makeup to go my mums, why i wore nice earings when he was not around etc, he used to call ma a s lag if i went to work looking nice, i worked in a pub by the way then.

he wanted to know where id been while he was at work, one time my little girl had asked to take crisps n pop ti her room and play, i let her, bit of peace for me lol, anyways upon daddys return home he went up to get get changed, i was cooking tea, he came down and gave me the most dirty nasty look he cud muster and called me a s lut, i sed what have i bloddy done now, get this

he sed hed found the empty crisps and pop and accused me off locking her upstiars with them to keep her quiet while i had sex with someone downstairs, at this piont id had ebuff and didnt care what he thought no more

so i just laffed and sed you sad pathetic dope smoking moran, get a life and grow up, anyways it never changed, and he lost us due to CANAIBIS

Cannabis is a dangerous drug. I used to smoke it daily for 7 years and the strength of the weed just before i quit made it an entirely different drug to what it was when i started smoking it.

A friend suffers with CIDP which is a muscle wasting condition and causes much pain to many joints. Prescribed pain killers are effective but a side effect of these causes loss of breath after walking short distances and lack of energy. Some time ago she came across the above substance and willing to try anything that might help she included some in a pancake mix. The effect was amazing, she had complete pain relief for 4 days but a side effect was a very high pounding heart rate. She has not used it since but I am sure that if it was prescribed correctly and considered in conjunction with medication already being taken for high blood pressure it would give safe relief from pain at a reasonable cost rather than lining the pockets of the illegal producers and dealers causing cost on the street at around 20GBP per gram.

Vin

I have a muscle waisting condition known as cmt ,charcot marie tooth disease it also waists my perphial nerves i have smoked weed a few time for it . And it does help better then the horrible pills i have too take.

Big up Charlie.... regardless of what people think about recreational use I believe people like yourself deserve the choice between prescription and natural medicines like cannabis.

For all those who keep say cannabis causes schizophrenia, here's a very recent article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/06/cannabis_psychosis_study/

Big up Charlie.... regardless of what people think about recreational use I believe people like yourself deserve the choice between prescription and natural medicines like cannabis.

For all those who keep say cannabis causes schizophrenia, here's a very recent article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/06/cannabis_psychosis_study/

Damn, was just about to post that!

Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it.

That's not true, it has been suggested many times that regular use of cannabis can have an effect on a persons mental health but it doesn't cause it, it just aggravates the problem, a problem that could have occured at any time without the use of cannabis.

There has also been a lot of research carried out that has shown cannabis has no affect on a persons health.

Big up Charlie.... regardless of what people think about recreational use I believe people like yourself deserve the choice between prescription and natural medicines like cannabis.

For all those who keep say cannabis causes schizophrenia, here's a very recent article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/06/cannabis_psychosis_study/

Your link is just to a commentary, to someone's opinion, and the research it cites states:

"It's unclear whether smoking marijuana causes schizophrenia or not, but if it does, according to the researcher, it's likely a gradual process. Nevertheless, he said, "the consensus is pretty much you should not use cannabis if you want to avoid an increased risk of schizophrenia."

Isn't that the point here? Of course you are not necessarily going to develop schizophrenia if you smoke cannabis and you probably need to have a disposition to it. What if you do have that disposition? Just as you are not necessarily going to contract lung cancer if you smoke cigarettes, there's still a risk and it you may also be more at risk if you have a family history of cancer or respiratory problems. Of course it's not cut and dried, nothing is.
As for smoking to relieve symptoms of an illness- totally different ball game to getting completely wasted all day on skunk.

That's not true, it has been suggested many times that regular use of cannabis can have an effect on a persons mental health but it doesn't cause it, it just aggravates the problem, a problem that could have occured at any time without the use of cannabis.

But also, then, could have not if it had been left well alone. The illness could potentially avoided.

There has also been a lot of research carried out that has shown cannabis has no affect on a persons health.

Links please to quality research

There has also been a lot of research carried out that has shown cannabis has no affect on a persons health.

Id like to see this research. As an ex user i noticed a marked difference in my mental state after giving up. Im less paranoid, ratty and and i sleep much better now i dont use the weed.
Of course when i was using it i never noticed the deterioration in my health until i stopped. Now id never touch the stuff again. to say it helps in any way is rubbish, you just dont notice the harm it does whilst your stoned.

Id like to see this research. As an ex user i noticed a marked difference in my mental state after giving up. Im less paranoid, ratty and and i sleep much better now i dont use the weed.
Of course when i was using it i never noticed the deterioration in my health until i stopped. Now id never touch the stuff again. to say it helps in any way is rubbish, you just dont notice the harm it does whilst your stoned.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

Iverson, Leslie. “Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis.” Current Opinion in Pharmacology 5(2005): 69-72.

Weiser and Noy. “Interpreting the association between cannabis use and increased risk of schizophrenia.” Dialogues in Clincal Neuroscience 1(2005): 81-85.

Andreasson, S. et al. “Cannabis and Schizophrenia: A Longitudinal study of Swedish Conscripts,” The Lancet 2 (1987): 1483-86.

Degenhardt, Louisa, Wayne Hall and Michael Lynskey. “Testing hypotheses about the relationship between cannabis use and psychosis,” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 71 (2003): 42-4.

Weil, A. “Adverse Reactions to Marijuana: Classification and Suggested Treatment.” New England Journal of Medicine 282 (1970): 997-1000.

(From: http://www.drugpolicy.org)

There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

Iverson, Leslie. “Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis.” Current Opinion in Pharmacology 5(2005): 69-72.

Weiser and Noy. “Interpreting the association between cannabis use and increased risk of schizophrenia.” Dialogues in Clincal Neuroscience 1(2005): 81-85.

Andreasson, S. et al. “Cannabis and Schizophrenia: A Longitudinal study of Swedish Conscripts,” The Lancet 2 (1987): 1483-86.

Degenhardt, Louisa, Wayne Hall and Michael Lynskey. “Testing hypotheses about the relationship between cannabis use and psychosis,” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 71 (2003): 42-4.

Weil, A. “Adverse Reactions to Marijuana: Classification and Suggested Treatment.” New England Journal of Medicine 282 (1970): 997-1000.

(From: http://www.drugpolicy.org)

I could only read the abstract to the article I've highlighted so know nothing about the stats used, sample size etc. Although it is the most relevant article I can find it is still relatively old, but its conclusion states:

Conclusions: Cannabis use does not appear to be causally related to the incidence of schizophrenia, but its use may precipitate disorders in persons who are vulnerable to developing psychosis and worsen the course of the disorder among those who have already developed it.

This clearly does not dismiss a link between cannabis use and the emergence of potential psychosis.

What about this more recent research I quoted earlier in the more widely known The British Journal of Psychiatry (2008 ) 192: 470-471. doi: 10.1192/bjp.bp.107.045740
© 2008 The Royal College of Psychiatrists?

Concluding:
Recent interest has focused on the association between cannabis use and risk of psychosis. In the largest unselected, population-based study on this topic to date, we examined cannabis use and prodromal symptoms of psychosis at age 15–16 years among 6330 adolescents. Those who had tried cannabis (n=352; 5.6% of the total sample) were more likely to present three or more prodromal symptoms even after controlling for confounders including previous behavioural symptoms (OR=2.23; 95% CI 1.70–2.94). A dose–response effect was seen. We conclude that cannabis use is associated with prodromal symptoms of psychosis in adolescence.

Recent interest has focused on the association between cannabis use and risk of psychosis. In the largest unselected, population-based study on this topic to date, we examined cannabis use and prodromal symptoms of psychosis at age 15–16 years among 6330 adolescents. Those who had tried cannabis (n=352; 5.6% of the total sample) were more likely to present three or more prodromal symptoms even after controlling for confounders including previous behavioural symptoms (OR=2.23; 95% CI 1.70–2.94). A dose–response effect was seen. We conclude that cannabis use is associated with prodromal symptoms of psychosis in adolescence.

I am sure that like alcohol weed does have a different and more servere effect on adolescents. Many youngsters today are smoking either what can only be described as a combination of car tyres + horse tranquillisers + coffee + milk powder disguised as hashish; or weed laced with silicone to make it appear more potent... Surely legalisation means we could make cannabis, like booze, only available to adults, taxed and quality controlled??

I am sure that like alcohol weed does have a different and more servere effect on adolescents. Many youngsters today are smoking either what can only be described as a combination of car tyres + horse tranquillisers + coffee + milk powder disguised as hashish; or weed laced with silicone to make it appear more potent... Surely legalisation means we could make cannabis, like booze, only available to adults, taxed and quality controlled??

The truth is, whatever would work, I'll take it. Obviously it's an issue close to my heart.

The truth is, whatever would work, I'll take it. Obviously it's an issue close to my heart.

that's the point... prohibition clearly doesn't work and only exasperates the problems.

that's the point... prohibition clearly doesn't work and only exasperates the problems.

I just don't know, at least it would address the problem more than now. But I do think young adolescents who are the most at risk group need to be better informed about the possible dangers. This can only happen when people recognise that there is an issue, particularly if you have a predisposition. When my brother first started smoking my mum asked her friend, a doctor about it who reassured her it was safer than cigarettes. But our grandfather and his mother before him both committed suicide suffering from manic depression so there's more than likely a family disposition to mental illness. He was also a very intense boy, bright, obsessive and spiritual. He took on smoking as a serious past-time, part of his religion.

Of course it sounds like he would have become ill anyway, but maybe just maybe his illness could have been less severe, a little later onset, more manageable by medication. As it was he couldn't really be helped and he spent a good deal of his final 11 years hiding or fighting imaginary attacks from enemy armies.

I just worry with the message going out that
"There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults" there are a few vulnerable teenage lads who are taking a huge risk without even knowing it. Possibly my own son in 10 years. Maybe they could be tested for vulnerability? Or at least educated in school. Not scare stories, but a balanced account of the risk.

I just worry with the message going out that
"There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults" there are a few vulnerable teenage lads who are taking a huge risk without even knowing it. Possibly my own son in 10 years. Maybe they could be tested for vulnerability? Or at least educated in school. Not scare stories, but a balanced account of the risk.

I agree with what you are saying Saff and to give you another example of how prohibition is worsening such matters try telephoning 'Talk to Frank' and ask them about the dangers of contaminated weed and they will tell you "it's illegal" and because of this stance not enough research is happening and nowhere near enough information is being made available to adolescents.

I also think that if some people do have a genetic predisposition which could be brought to the surface by cannabis then more information needs to be made available about this and other potential triggers and how to best avoid the onset of illness.

Mental health is still a massively misunderstood and misrepresented issue in our society. Perhaps taxing and legalising cannabis could fund more research and more public information concerning this matter.

I agree with what you are saying Saff and to give you another example of how prohibition is worsening such matters try telephoning 'Talk to Frank' and ask them about the dangers of contaminated weed and they will tell you "it's illegal" and because of this stance not enough research is happening and nowhere near enough information is being made available to adolescents.

I also think that if some people do have a genetic predisposition which could be brought to the surface by cannabis then more information needs to be made available about this and other potential triggers and how to best avoid the onset of illness.

Mental health is still a massively misunderstood and misrepresented issue in our society. Perhaps taxing and legalising cannabis could fund more research and more public information concerning this matter.

The amount of misinformation is unbelievable.
Much of it publically funded.

I agree with what you are saying Saff and to give you another example of how prohibition is worsening such matters try telephoning 'Talk to Frank' and ask them about the dangers of contaminated weed and they will tell you "it's illegal" and because of this stance not enough research is happening and nowhere near enough information is being made available to adolescents.

I also think that if some people do have a genetic predisposition which could be brought to the surface by cannabis then more information needs to be made available about this and other potential triggers and how to best avoid the onset of illness.

Mental health is still a massively misunderstood and misrepresented issue in our society. Perhaps taxing and legalising cannabis could fund more research and more public information concerning this matter.

I agree with the need for more research etc but what do you mean about talk to frank? I got this from their website http://www.talktofrank.com/drugs.aspx?id=172

I don't understand how a drugs helpline can refuse to give information, i mean that's why it exists isn't it? I'm thinking of ringing myself to ask some questions but what would you ask exactly? I got this from their website:

Purity

Some unsuspecting people have been known to buy blocks of mud, stock cubes and garden herbs from people pretending to be dealers.

The most impure cannabis is called 'soap bar'. It's contaminated with all sorts of things. This makes it cheaper but it's often harder to get very stoned.

It’s not actually possible to tell whether a particular sample of 'skunk' or ‘homegrown’ or ‘sinsemilla’ will have a higher potency than an equal amount of 'imported herbal cannabis' - because the actual potencies of different products overlap substantially.

The potency of herbal cannabis decreases over time in storage and is affected by what parts of the plant have been included in the product. Hence, a user has little guarantee about the ‘intensity of the high’. Also, it has been found the intensity of the smell of skunk appears to be no guide to the actual strength either.

I think it may be a rumour - the front of the Gazette the other day had pictures of a cannabis haul brought in by South Yorkshire Police in Sheffield.

If they are still hauling in cannabis factories - there may be problems with a cafe.

Shame really - I know of at least 5 people who benefit medically from cannabis.

Moon Maiden

I have no problem with medical use of weed and agree it should be legal and available in these cases.
As for a cafe it would be illegal and if it's the same as the london one it will get shut down in a matter of hours.

I agree with the need for more research etc but what do you mean about talk to frank? I got this from their website http://www.talktofrank.com/drugs.aspx?id=172

I don't understand how a drugs helpline can refuse to give information, i mean that's why it exists isn't it? I'm thinking of ringing myself to ask some questions but what would you ask exactly?

Read this article for more info. 'Grit Weed' (as it has been called) is much more harmful than cannabis and can potentially lead to silicosis of the lungs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/6386311.stm

This is a long read, but very informative.

Documented Evidence of a Secret Business and Political Alliance
Between the U.S. "Establishment" and the Nazis - Before, During and
After World War II - up to the Present. (http://www.textfiles.com/conspiracy/cncjb017.txt)

Gives you a detailed history brief on canabis.

A friend of mine had a heart attack at 33 because he smokes skunk for so many years. What happened wa that is wore away some of the lining around one of his artery's around his heart. He now can't work ever again, get over stressed (physical or mental) and has a very low quality of life.... all due to smoking weed!

Weed may not be as bad as other drugs, but dont kid yourself.. it IS bad!

There will always be irresponsible idiots who can't moderate their intake (whether food, drink, drugs etc.). They get what's coming, basically, and their body will give them plenty of signs when they are abusing it.

There's a lot of generalisation going on in this thread, which seems to always happen when on the subject of cannabis. Please stop it those of you who are. It makes you look ignorant and irrational.

I really enjoyed smoking cannabis in the past, and today I smoke very nice legal alternatives. I run a website in my spare time and it requires a alot of creative input which cannabis and similar herbs have always helped stimulate.

Introspection is also very important to me, and cannabis helped me explore and understand certain elements of my personality that sobriety can't "unlock".

Not bragging, but I'd probably be one of the last people the mainstream media would use as a "case study" for the effects of cannabis, because I actually use it *SHOCK HORROR* responsibly. Not a very exciting story is it?

All these "cannabis ruined my son's life" stories would make me laugh if they weren't so upsetting for the mother, knowing that she brought up her son to be an irresponsible, degenerate little turd who doesn't know his own limits.

:wave:

In responce to all the questions and answers.
I am 42 years old and have used cannabis since 18 years.
Resin was ok.
Skunk is deadly!!!!!
I have stoppped for the last 2 years because of the health rasons.
I can get the stuff but you do not know where it comes from.
Yester year it was from a "herbal" distributer.
Today, it is from a "Gun weilding" thug.
or a "Chinkie" who doesn't give a fuc.k
Today your child can get a much as he/she wants and COCAIN, which is the choice of many.
I have tried cocain and it is good.
Are you PC or a real person bringin up children who might want advice

...............................

In responce to all the questions and answers.
I am 42 years old and have used cannabis since 18 years.
Resin was ok.
Skunk is deadly!!!!!
I have stoppped for the last 2 years because of the health rasons.
I can get the stuff but you do not know where it comes from.
Yester year it was from a "herbal" distributer.
Today, it is from a "Gun weilding" thug.
or a "Chinkie" who doesn't give a fuc.k
Today your child can get a much as he/she wants and COCAIN, which is the choice of many.
I have tried cocain and it is good.
Are you PC or a real person bringin up children who might want advice

This reply has put me off the weed!

Im old enough to remember real canabis ! the skunk stuff available now is real nasty , its addictive and causes depression and can go on to cause mental problems. Weed that was around in the sixties and seventies was altogether different. Anyone who benefits from medicinal canabis should get it , the street stuff is nasty and should be taken off our streets to protect our kids. Reclass it as B.

I've been smoking it for years (in moderation) and haven't noticed any bad effects. Even the "street stuff". And I might be in the minority but the few people I know and can get weed from are happy hippies and not "gun wielding thugs".

-Michael

I know this is going to be contradictory! But if I had a choice and one of my kids said I will be a drinker or a hash smoker, I would say be a hash smoker for lots of reasons. However ..... I honestly think pot heads are a waste of space! I know drink can be a false high! As is pot! But in my opinion potheads are bad news. This is based on people I know! Without going into the good and bad points of drink and hash! Hash in the long term is more nasty over alcohol. I only say this because of friends I know.

The consensus is hash chills you while drink makes you aggressive. Not true at all!! I know that now!

If anyone feels the need to use drink or drugs to get through the day it tells me there is a problem! If you don’t have a natural high with your wife/ girlfriend/ boyfriend/ kids or family and need drink or drugs to get you through the day then something is wrong!!!

If anyone feels the need to use drink or drugs to get through the day it tells me there is a problem! If you don’t have a natural high with your wife/ girlfriend/ boyfriend/ kids or family and need drink or drugs to get you through the day then something is wrong!!!

No sh*t Sherlock! :hihi:

Not everyone who drinks or smokes needs it to get them through the day. Most people can drink without it becoming a problem. Same as with smokes.

Question ?!?! Why do people need a drink or a smoke?!?!? at the end of the day?!?! lmfao!

Question ?!?! Why do people need a drink or a smoke?!?!? at the end of the day?!?! lmfao!

Well a couple of drinks lowers inhibitions, for a start, and it's a stimulant in small amounts. That's 2 reasons.

Why they need to do it at the end of the day, is because it can be thought of as problem when it's at the beginning of the day, as it's not as socially acceptable to drink in the morning. :)

God your good!!!!! However you never answered my question!!!! For anyone to start to drink or smoke does it for a reason. You have answered your own question/ comment you put at me!!! God please think before you post, that way you don’t look like a dumb ass!!!

God your good!!!!! However you never answered my question!!!! For anyone to start to drink or smoke does it for a reason. You have answered your own question/ comment you put at me!!! God please think before you post, that way you don’t look like a dumb ass!!!
I've never denied being a dumb ass ;):hihi:

I've answered the questions and points you made.

You're mixing up an opinion of 'need' IMO. Most people can drink small amounts, and their body tells them that they've had enough, so they stop.

That's not a need of alcohol. It's enjoying, what for the most part is an enjoyable drug, which makes them feel happy.

Why do people try it? Kids in the main, try it for experimental reasons. They have seen others doing it, and want to try it for themselves.
If people had no knowledge of either drug, there wouldn't be any interest through that lack of knowledge.

I've been smoking it for years (in moderation) and haven't noticed any bad effects. Even the "street stuff". And I might be in the minority but the few people I know and can get weed from are happy hippies and not "gun wielding thugs".

-Michael

You bloody well can't get it from me!

I've never denied being a dumb ass ;):hihi:

I've answered the questions and points you made.

You're mixing up an opinion of 'need' IMO. Most people can drink small amounts, and their body tells them that they've had enough, so they stop.

That's not a need of alcohol. It's enjoying, what for the most part is an enjoyable drug, which makes them feel happy.

Why do people try it? Kids in the main, try it for experimental reasons. They have seen others doing it, and want to try it for themselves.
If people had no knowledge of either drug, there wouldn't be any interest through that lack of knowledge.I have to go with what you said 100%! Now the contradictory part!!!!

My opinion is what you said is the way it starts! And for a few it becomes habit.
However may point is why do it in the first place. This question you have answered in your opinion.

My opinion is… to start taking any drug …. I.E drink or drugs there is something missing in your life to have to turn to a drug that gives you a false sense of happiness or high.

The reason I say that and its only my own opinion, is that’s the position I myself am in.

"They have seen others doing it, and want to try it for themselves."
You are 100% on the ball!!!!!...... But some kids stop and others keep going!