Over the last 6 months weve heard numerous shocking stories about Gun Crime spreading over our region!

Im putting together a column for The Sheffield Star that show what we think about the rise in gun crime, and what we could do to maybe cut down/prevent it?

I look forward to your replies!

Matt Oldham

Mention my name and I'll pop a cap in your a$$

As a responsible gun owner I am dissapointed that in recent years the Govt has found it necessary to remove legally owned hand guns from general circulation.

I belong to a number of registered CPSA shoots, its funny to think that there are normally upwards of 100 guns at these events, that happen all over the region most weekends and some week nights during the summer, and I have never seen any accident or injury !!

It's not legal guns that kill it's illegal weapons that are untraceable. Again the British Govt has banned somthing in a knee jerk reaction that they have absolutely no idea about.

It's also not a gun that kills people its the person that pulls the trigger.

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
As a responsible gun owner I am dissapointed that in recent years the Govt has found it necessary to remove legally owned hand guns from general circulation.

I belong to a number of registered CPSA shoots, its funny to think that there are normally upwards of 100 guns at these events, that happen all over the region most weekends and some week nights during the summer, and I have never seen any accident or injury !!

It's not legal guns that kill it's illegal weapons that are untraceable. Again the British Govt has banned somthing in a knee jerk reaction that they have absolutely no idea about.

It's also not a gun that kills people its the person that pulls the trigger.


But don't many illegal handguns originate from legal owners being robbed? If someone was to rob your house and steal your gun, they could then sell it and there'd be one more illegal gun in circulation.

If guns were out-lawed only out-laws will have guns !

Originally posted by poppins
If guns were out-lawed only out-laws will have guns ! what about the emotional psychos in domestic murders in the usa whats the stats on them for a year?

Originally posted by matt1889
...show what we think about the rise in gun crime...



What data will you using to show that there has actually been a rise in gun crime?

Originally posted by deadgobby
what about the emotional psychos in domestic murders in the usa whats the stats on them for a year?

Wouldn't know the stats on that, i only know what i belive in, and yes i do keep a loaded gun in the house, could i use it if i had to ? i think i could if i needed to protect my family.

Originally posted by poppins
Wouldn't know the stats on that, i only know what i belive in, and yes i do keep a loaded gun in the house, could i use it if i had to ? i think i could if i needed to protect my family. isn.t there some county some where in the south where the mayor made it conpulsery for every body to own a gun ,and they had one of the lowest gun related crime rates in the usa????/

Originally posted by deadgobby
what about the emotional psychos in domestic murders in the usa whats the stats on them for a year?

Not exactly what your looking for, but close..

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4845a1.htm

Originally posted by deadgobby
isn.t there some county some where in the south where the mayor made it conpulsery for every body to own a gun ,and they had one of the lowest gun related crime rates in the usa????/

Thats news to me, but i belive it.

Originally posted by poppins
Thats news to me, but i belive it.

that can not be true dude... watch bowling for columbine and then think long and hard about why it is that the usa has the highest gun crime figures in the world.

Originally posted by johnnygee
that can not be true dude... watch bowling for columbine and then think long and hard about why it is that the usa has the highest gun crime figures in the world.

Bigger country, more people, more crime !

Chicago has one of the highest (if not the highest) gun related murder rates in the U.S. It also has some of the strongest gun control laws.

Guns just make killing somebody easier, if you want to kill them. It makes it easy for a chicken to kill somebody.

But when you look at the statistics, more guns do not = less murders, or more for that matter. It does have an effect on robbery. The more guns in circulation make the robbery statistics go down, there seems to be a direct correlation to that.

Funny I feel safer in America than I do in the U.K, even with guns around.

I am anti-gun though and do think they should be removed from society. There just isn't much data to suggest that more guns = more murder. Poverty has a much stronger link to the murder rate.

We've had this debate before and I got slated for suggesting that gun crime and shootings were out of control....

probably the same elements who were doing the shooting, supplying the weapons..

the u.s.a is a very differant place than here,
criminals don't buy guns in the same places as normal citizens,
and i don't agree that its a good idea to have "normal" people having guns but when the crims get theirs then the populous have to be protected,
i remember when bliar gave us the handgun ban telling us gun crime would drop,
it hasn't,
in fact its just over doubled since we persecuted the inocent shooting comunity,
their own figure's show the sporting community played no real part in the supply of hand guns to the criminals,
but we don't hear of a repeal,
the stuff the scum out there has is frightning,even out gunning the police in some cases,but its an ethnic issue,and we all know how terrified of doing something about that the goverment are,
untill they get control of the ports and stop guns being imported all the time then there will always be a regular surply of them,
tougher prison sentances as mandatory whenever a gun is used in a crime,
lock the criminal scum up out of the way of desent folk,
JJ..

We visited my son in Houston, Texas earlier this year. There was a sign outside the local bank advertising a free gun with every new account opened!

Can't see the NatWest following suit!

Some points I'd add.

Most gun USING criminals have blackmarket firearms, smuggled in from the continent. The draconian restrictions of gun ownership were nothing to do with conventional gun crime - remember the Hungerfood Massacre? Michael Ryan was not a violent criminal before he became a mass murderer.

Comparisions with gun ownership in America have always been meaningless. See "Bowling for Columbine" - There are almost as many guns in Canada and Australia but a fraction of the number of gun related incidents.

The most serious problem in the UK is the growing gang culture amongst inner city youths - many are black, but certainly not all. The desire to possess handguns has partly been fueld by rap music and drug culture.

Sheffield has escaped the worst - but we will see more gun crime unless the underlying social problems are not better addressed, especially in terms of educating young people.

Michael Ryan was a nutter - he had a history of mental problems.

is this article another ott Star shock story with no actual evidence behind it? Where is all this gun crime. Most people who get shot round here is gang/drug related and the only people involved are people in those circles.

I think the American attitude to gun ownership stinks personally. It is obvious to me that the more guns owned the more shootings are likely to happen. It is impossible to tighten up laws as gun ownership is commonplace in a lot of places.

Originally posted by Internetowl
Michael Ryan was a nutter - he had a history of mental problems.

One in three people suffer some form of mental illness during their lives. If someone goes "postal", I'd rather they did not have access to firearms, regardless of whether they had a history of mental health problems.

robbie, your right that that Sheffield doesn't currently have a significant Gun Crime problem, but then neither did Birmingham or Manchester not to long ago. As for the problem only affecting the underworld - most of the high profile murders have not been gangsters - school children and shop assistants most recently.

A couple of points I'd like to add:

If people carry a gun, in a similar trend to people who carry knives, they are more likely to be shot with their own or another weapon than someone who does not carry.

Criminals who need guns for pre-meditated crime do not buy legal handguns because this would require their details and a licence. However if hand guns were to be made legal so would forward dispersing blank weapons, which could be bought without any registration and are easily converted to fire conventional ammunition.

The less guns there are around the better. True, 'responsible' owners would keep guns locked in safe cabinets in their homes etc. But although licenses would be required to purchase guns, what kind of checks could be carried out to ensure that people really are responsible enough to keep them before we are infringing their 'human rights'?. A simple police/criminal records check just isn't enough.

But don't many illegal handguns originate from legal owners being robbed? If someone was to rob your house and steal your gun, they could then sell it and there'd be one more illegal gun in circulation.

In order to steal it they'd have to somehow break into a half inch thinck steel cabinet, then find somewhere that would illegally sell them ammuntion.

. True, 'responsible' owners would keep guns locked in safe cabinets in their homes etc. But although licenses would be required to purchase guns, what kind of checks could be carried out to ensure that people really are responsible enough to keep them before we are infringing their 'human rights'?. A simple police/criminal records check just isn't enough.

Repsonsible owners do have to keep their guns in a safe cabinet by law otherwise they aren't issued a firearms certificate. Newly introduced is authorisation to contact your doctor and have acess to medical history, a reference is required by someone who has known you for at least three years and all firearms certificte holders are required to be members of a gun club.

A simple criminal records check is enough as anyone posessing a criminal record is not granted a firearms certificate.

You will also likely find that the majority of firearm owners are less likely to commit a crime sucj as assault, drunk and disorderly etc as in the current climate it is all too easy for Pc Plod to come along confiscate your weapons and make you fight a long, drawn out and expensive court battle to get them back.

However one thing I do not agree with (as a section one and section two) Firearms Certificate holder is the laws with regards to shotguns. There is no legal requirement for them to be kept in a safe cabinet. Merely a glass cabinet with a pad lock on. HOWEVER, in my 17 years as a shootist I have never known of or come across anyone who oes not keep there firearms, be it pistols, shotguns or rifles in a secure steel cabinet.

A regulation the government overlooked was to keep guns and ammo apart.

I have a steel cabinet for guns, but, the Ammo is kept at a house in the next village until i go shooting.

there is no gun crime all ( legal hand guns have been banned ) gun crime in sheffield is non existent so we can all sleep safe in our beds .

Now then, you would'nt imagin how easy it is to get hold of a gun. I go to my mates flat down the road from me and his house mate has got a gun. Ive even held it, heavy clean shiney crome. Its brillaint, not to go out shooting with i mean the design and the look is wonderful. When i first held it i got a rush, i was holding something that could blow someones head off and take someones life. Dunno why. Theres anover lad i know whos got a shotgun he stole from a local farm. You can buy a gun for £70 if you know the right person, its stupid. How the hell are they getting in are country?

BTW, theres plenty of gun crime, ive know people to be shot in there knees after coming home from a night club (drug related attack) and ive also known someone who took one into the local pub and pointed at this geezers head (drug related again) that was 4 years ago i think.

This is simply a sign of the times. Manchester have had serious gun crime for the past 15 years and is still having it. Nottingham and Leeds also have been having it. Why are people so stupid to think to that Sheffield does not or will not catch up with these cities. South Yorkshire Police have the intelligence and know the serious gangsters in this city. I personally think we have had it lucky so far

Yea id agree DJ, Manchester is really bad.

As someone who was born and bred in Birmingham compared to there this city has NO gun crime. Virtually every weekend one maybe two people were being shot.

I worked as a doorman for several years and was shot at on three seperate occasions. A young man was shot outside our club having accidently trod on a gang members trainers. He died. I quit work the day a boy of no more than thirteen pulled a semi-automatic pistol on me because I refused him entry (to an over 18's club).

Guns are becoming fashion accessories. With young men making vast sums of money selling drugs they see anyone "dissing" them as a direct threat and deal with it in a violent way so as to instill fear and respect into the other youths around them.

The OP was this time last year, did the article ever come out? It would seem that gun crime has actually increased since then, would be interesting to see the figures.

One in three people suffer some form of mental illness during their lives. If someone goes "postal", I'd rather they did not have access to firearms, regardless of whether they had a history of mental health problems.


It's because of crazy politicians with attitudes like yours that they banned legal firearms in the UK !!

You cannot judge a person applying for a shotgun or firearms licence on how they might ne in 5 years time. At the point of renewal it may be possible for the officer to re judge the mental stability of the applicant.

On another note, when the UK holds the Olympics in 2012, how are the competitors going to compete in the .22 hand guns?, legal ownership isn't currently allowed in the UK, or are the Govt' going to make their usual "one rule for one and one for everyone else ruling'?

Anything that reduces the market size for guns is a good thing in my opinion, including banning 'legal' gun ownership or getting rid of 'sports' that involve guns. The smaller the market, the less profitable it would be for gun/ammunition manufacturers and suppliers to stay in business. So long as they stay in business 'illegal' guns will continue to end up in the wrong hands. :gag:

Does anyone have the stats on firearm crime BEFORE the UK ban compared to gun crime today??
I dont, but i'd put £10 on that its got worse since the ban.

The ban achieved nothing other than ruin the ligitimate user's enjoyment of shooting in my opinion.
If trained and vetted properly i'd see no problem in Joe Public being able to use firearms recrationally.

Does anyone have the stats on firearm crime BEFORE the UK ban compared to gun crime today??
I dont, but i'd put £10 on that its got worse since the ban.

The ban achieved nothing other than ruin the ligitimate user's enjoyment of shooting in my opinion.
If trained and vetted properly i'd see no problem in Joe Public being able to use firearms recrationally.
Well said to that - I was among the thousands of legitimate handgun owners whose sport was taken away by a typical lefty government knee-jerk.

FAC holders are very strictly vetted, and are many times less likely on average to commit a violent crime than the average member of society. The handgun ban did nothing to stop illegal weapons coming into the country in droves.

What's worse, the ban resulted from Dunblane but the laws already in place were strict enough anyway - Hamilton may have been a registered firearms certificate holder but he had never satisfied the conditions to hold an FAC and the responsibility for that tragedy lies completely with Strathclyde Police for wrongly letting him have an FAC in the first place.

well why not ban computers then that will help stop child porn, ban camera phones that will stop happy slapping etc, you can go on & on banning things it doesnt solve anything
Exactly. Ban male genitals - that should prevent rape.

Firearms are less dangerous than cars - a lower proportion of firearms owners have accidents than car owners.

Of course, those with no understanding whatsoever of firearms will just want them banned for the sake of it.

well why not ban computers then that will help stop child porn, ban camera phones that will stop happy slapping etc, you can go on & on banning things it doesnt solve anything
would you agree on legalising "illegal drugs" to remove them from mainstream use and controlling(taxing) them in a way similar to pharmaceuticals, alcohol and tobacco then?

gun crimes in sheffield have shot up. if you hear about someone getting shot its not even a shock anymore cos it happens so often. the police should spend their time catching real criminals rather than going around looking for bold tyres and untaxed vehicles. on friday saturday nights in the city centre their main concern should be people who are carrying/or taking weapons in clubs rather than a young driver cruising around minding his own business causin no one any harm

Well said to that - I was among the thousands of legitimate handgun owners whose sport was taken away by a typical lefty government knee-jerk.

FAC holders are very strictly vetted, and are many times less likely on average to commit a violent crime than the average member of society. The handgun ban did nothing to stop illegal weapons coming into the country in droves.

What's worse, the ban resulted from Dunblane but the laws already in place were strict enough anyway - Hamilton may have been a registered firearms certificate holder but he had never satisfied the conditions to hold an FAC and the responsibility for that tragedy lies completely with Strathclyde Police for wrongly letting him have an FAC in the first place.

Add to boot that he had produced a pistol to a womans head in the street months before the Dunblane incident. Hamilton should have had his license revoked long before then. Why didn't he? Because he was friends with the chief inspector.

Anything that reduces the market size for guns is a good thing in my opinion, including banning 'legal' gun ownership or getting rid of 'sports' that involve guns. The smaller the market, the less profitable it would be for gun/ammunition manufacturers and suppliers to stay in business. So long as they stay in business 'illegal' guns will continue to end up in the wrong hands. :gag:

Fair enough promote a world wide ban on firearms. Problem solved, the manufacturers will go out of business. Oh wait a minute, the plethera of the worlds armies will still want guns, armies that account for the vast majority of firearms purchases so cures nothing.

DesertEagle, are you aware about Operation Drinksafe? Its a dedicated operation to prevent disorder in the city on weekends, where up to 4 public order vans conduct foot and mobile patrols in a bid to reasure the public.
In addition, did you know that criminals now use cars when going about their illegal activity? Often with more than one in a car. How many tickets are actually given out for bald tyres in contrast to persons arrested/ crimes prevented as a result of that vehicle being stopped and challenged?
How many complaints are received from shot victims? You may be surprised as its not your everyday passerby who gets caught up in this. The target is often known to the shooter as a result of gang disputes. Living by the sword, so to speak. The police are dedicated to reducing the fear of guncrime, but its not their kids who obtain and use firearms illegally.
But, naturally its the fault of the police, given the disintegration of community.

simple solution

life should mean life. serious criminals that are dangerous to society should do 5 years in prison then execution death row. save tax payers money and will deter the young ones into going into a life of crime. Englands laws are way too relaxed and the rise in gun crime is getting worse than USA. Remember USA was built on corruption and is still only 200 years old. (declaration of Independance)
serial Peadophiles 5 years in prison and castration before they released into society.


Facts: London crime now is 3 times higher than New York. (done on ratio per square mile)

Nottingham is homocide capital of Great Britain followed by Manchester

Fair enough promote a world wide ban on firearms. Problem solved, the manufacturers will go out of business. Oh wait a minute, the plethera of the worlds armies will still want guns, armies that account for the vast majority of firearms purchases so cures nothing.
are you MAD! were one of the biggest arms suppliers in the world, we live better lives by selling the poor guns to kill each other. Agree it would cure nothing.
Also regarding arms:
Interestingly the Us House of representetives have agreed to sell nuclear technology to India and pakistan is constructing a heavy water reactor which will allow them to produce 40-50 nuclear bombs a year(20 times more than now) and russia still has 40 000 tonnes of chemical weapons.

gun crimes in sheffield have shot up. if you hear about someone getting shot its not even a shock anymore cos it happens so often. the police should spend their time catching real criminals rather than going around looking for bold tyres and untaxed vehicles. on friday saturday nights in the city centre their main concern should be people who are carrying/or taking weapons in clubs rather than a young driver cruising around minding his own business causin no one any harm

Where to start ??

1) Source for your speculation on the increase in Sheffields gun crime?
2) Any form of law breaking is criminal therefore a person driving witha bald tyre is commiting an offence, therefore driver = criminal.
3) Police need a reason to stop and search so then would you argue that stopping casual drinkers to search them for weapons they may or may not have is unjust and a waste of resource?
4) Drivers that do 'cruise' around and cause no harm are unliekly to get stopped, however ar*eholes in self pimped sardine cans that race around with loud stereo's and display illegal lights aren't exactly doing this to stay inconspicuous are they?

Other than that your post was faultless. I thank you :thumbsup:

It would be helpful, surely, if the South Yorkshire Police could give us the statistics on gun-related crime, say, for 1966, 1986 and 2005.

I suspect the figures will show a marked increase.

Anecdotal evidence is obviously a different 'kettle of fish' but does help to verify or contradict the statistics .

Way back in about 1960, two men were convicted in Sheffield for a series of robberies, some involving the possession of guns . No-one was killed,nor I think, even wounded. One of the men was sentenced to 21 years in the nick, the other to 19 years [these were later reduced by 7 years in each case.However it's an indication of what the Sheffield judge thought!].

The case caused a sensation at the time as there seemed,in general, very little gun crime in Sheffield or the U.K in general.Maybe, as some people maintain, it's just my perception and people were popping at each other all the time but nobody bothered to report it! However, I don't think this is true. The real question is:-what has caused the increase, if any, since the '50's and '60's ?

If all guns were banned and made illegal people would still find methods of harming each other. Guns in the wrong hands are a cowards tool, when I was a kid we used to settle arguments with our fists.

Fair enough promote a world wide ban on firearms. Problem solved, the manufacturers will go out of business. Oh wait a minute, the plethera of the worlds armies will still want guns, armies that account for the vast majority of firearms purchases so cures nothing.

I would be very happy to see an end to weapons manufacture altogether but I realise that that will never be practically possible. What may, however, be achievable in the very long term (by instituting and increasing the scope of these bans) is an end to private companies manufacturing and supplying arms and ammunition. So that only the armies themselves would be responsible for building, managing and securing their own arms.

Having grown up in Manchester when the Gang War first started, it was amazing how fast it escalated. Unfortunately there is little you can do. Gangs run the areas rather than the police and if you are caught 'grassing' then God knows the punishment that you will get. No doubt I will get replies saying 'Oh we can do something about it'. Well when the police are scared to venture into areas (As they are in some areas of Moss Side, Salford, Longsight, Hulme in Manc) then there is little we as the public can do...

Sorry to be so depressing:)

Add to boot that he had produced a pistol to a womans head in the street months before the Dunblane incident. Hamilton should have had his license revoked long before then. Why didn't he? Because he was friends with the chief inspector.

i believe he was a freemason ,also the two pc ,s who interviewed hamilton put in their report that in their opinion hamilton should not be allowed to own guns .he had also been caught in possession of two illegal rifles. the laws that were in place to prevent people like hamilton to own guns was not adhered to, oh and the chief inspector took early retirement on full pension of course.

What may, however, be achievable in the very long term (by instituting and increasing the scope of these bans) is an end to private companies manufacturing and supplying arms and ammunition. So that only the armies themselves would be responsible for building, managing and securing their own arms.

As a tax payer you'd be happy to foot the multi billion pound investment it would take to run such an operation? Come on be serious, there's practicaly a national revolt when petrol prices increase by a couple of pence.

Guns be it private or military are big business, whether an army produced it's own or not it WOULD still export them for the simple reason it pays. When these weapons are then sold on and filtered down the would still find their way onto the streets.

Like drugs it is virtually impossible to stop the ILLEGAL in flux of weapons into any country, and it is the illegal guns that are responsible for the increase in gun crime.

Example, my weapons are stored in what is best described as a safe, the house is fully loaded with cctv and an alarm linked to the police. Whenever an incident occours on the street or indeed the surrounding area there are within five minutes two armed response vehicles parked either end of the road. Saturday and Sunday my weapons are taken to a secure club where they are used for recreational purposes. Then locked back in the safe. As is the case with the thousands of other gun owners I have ever met. What harm are my weapons or those of friends and colleagues posing. NONE.

i believe he was a freemason ,also the two pc ,s who interviewed hamilton put in their report that in their opinion hamilton should not be allowed to own guns .he had also been caught in possession of two illegal rifles. the laws that were in place to prevent people like hamilton to own guns was not adhered to, oh and the chief inspector took early retirement on full pension of course.

Exactly, yet as is always the case it's the little man, in this case we the gun owners that take the fall, then it fuels the do gooders who then in turn paint all gun owners as Ramboesque mad men just waiting for an excuse to go out and massacre someone.

if you go to a country fair there is a lot of people there with guns , taking part in clay pigeon shoots etc you usually see a couple of special constables walking round .because all in all the shooting fraternity are a law abiding bunch .how many police do you see at a football match trying to keep order
pubs told not to open in case a drink fuelled battle between supporters takes place

Meanwhile, as the law-abiding gun-owners have to suffer, the villains just laugh it off and carry on regardless. So many police are involved in chasing up decent people that there aren't enough reources left to really clamp down on the thugs.Plus, it's not just guns, in my view.

.Plus, it's not just guns, in my view.

Sense at last. I pose this question, how many sharp steak knives, cooks knives etc does each member of this forum have in their kitchen? Next time your cutting up your meat keep in mind your kitchen knife is far easier for a criminal to get hold of than my gun.

It's a very old saying and I've probably said it before, but it's still very true. A gun itself is not dangerous, it's the person holding it that you have to be careful of.

it gettin worse with guns

It's a very old saying and I've probably said it before, but it's still very true. A gun itself is not dangerous, it's the person holding it that you have to be careful of.
Indeed. I earlier quoted the US bumper sticker that says: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

Some Forummers objected (do-gooders who need a life as ever) but it's very true. The gun may be the tool used, but it's just a means to an end, as would be a knife, club, sword, screwdriver, baseball bat, poison, or a poke in the eye with a sharp pencil. Was there no murder or armed robbery before guns were invented? If the answer is yes, I’ll support a total ban.

We can't ban everything, and we can't fully control illegal trafficking of firearms, or other weapons, to the criminal underworld. All the government did with the Dunblane ban was punish the innocent FAC holders for a criminal failure by the Strathclyde Police.

What we can do is hang the scrotes that use guns illegally.

Some Forummers objected (do-gooders who need a life as ever) but it's very true. The gun may be the tool used, but it's just a means to an end, as would be a knife, club, sword, screwdriver, baseball bat, poison, or a poke in the eye with a sharp pencil. Was there no murder or armed robbery before guns were invented? If the answer is yes, I’ll support a total ban.

Well. If someone were intent on doing others harm (as a health service worker) I'd much prefer that they had one of those other things you mentioned rather than a gun.

Indeed. I earlier quoted the US bumper sticker that says: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

Absolutely. I have a sporting thermo-nuclear device in my shed which I use at my local A-bomb club as a responsible adult. Then you get these idiots who go around dropping them on people...

Get a grip mate. Guns were invented as a means of killing people, and they do a bleeding good job of it. As far as I see it, the more readily people have access to guns, the more likely they are to use them, in any context: a responsible sporting gun owner today may become a cuckold husband with a shotgun tomorrow.

Absolutely. I have a sporting thermo-nuclear device in my shed which I use at my local A-bomb club as a responsible adult. Then you get these idiots who go around dropping them on people...

Get a grip mate. Guns were invented as a means of killing people, and they do a bleeding good job of it. As far as I see it, the more readily people have access to guns, the more likely they are to use them, in any context: a responsible sporting gun owner today may become a cuckold husband with a shotgun tomorrow.
Do you react in such an alarmist fashion to everything?

How many people have been seriously injured or killed in this country in the last 5 years by legally held firearms? Sod all.
How many people have been seriously injured or killed as the result of fights involving no weapons at all? Too many.

You're dealing with such a tiny, tiny number of deaths from legally held firearms that your case just doesn't make sense.