is the kickboxing class that calls itself kickboxing REALLY kickboxing?
OR is it "Freestyle Karate" in disguise?

Do you know how to tell the difference?

How to spot the walkers from the talkers and the movers the shakers and the fakers?

discuss

Do anyone ehre know HOW you can tell the difference between what is real kickboxing and what is really a modernised/diluted karate /kung fu system in disguise?

I will be on here again shortly with a list of characteristics of how you cna tell the difference.

Freddylee

This is not just a Kickboxing thing all styles have the same problem. For instance I know of a couple of Kung fu Schools in the south Yorkshire area that are putting clams across that they are teaching traditional kung fu but then you find out the style has only been about for 5 or 10 years and they all have freestyle suits and karate belts on but what can you do apart from educate people and hope for the best.
Some clubs use the name kickboxing or a club might says they do little ninjas classes it’s because that’s what people recognize the name you know and every one ells knows that they are not really training little ninja’s. well I hope not or we might all be in trouble lol

So the question should be how we can stop the falls claims or do they harm people???????????

The false claims are what is slowly killing kickboxing as a sport in my opinion.
People think that kickboxing is like karate or that it involves musical forms and semi contact playing tiggy on the mats type sparring.
This in my opinion and the opinion
1. gives kickboxing a "mickey mouse" image
2. Takes away from the blood sweat and tears that the real kickboxers have to go through even for their novice bouts let alone the titles. There are workd semi contact champions who claim to be kickboxing champions and will even go as far as "rubbishing" other kickboxers who themselves would struggle in the real kickboxing ring even at novice standard!

Those are the main reasons why these fools are destroying kickboxing.

I think we should "name and shame" the pretenders
Or compile a list of decent clubs

Or both ?
:P

I was under the impression that kickboxing was a form of freestyle karate. I'm happily proved wrong!

Hi Adam
Yeah its totally different from freestyle karate
the freestyle karate you speak of is all very happy to jump on the bandwagon and benefit from kickboxings popularity BUT, those freestyle karateka dont want to put in the hard slog that the kickboxers go through. Also, they dont have the same power in their kicks that the kickboxers do OR even have remotely comparable hand skills or defense.

I do prefer traditional karate to freestyle karate, the techniques are proper techniques and have more distinction and power than the freestyle karate.

The freestyle karate techniques are very wishy washy and ineffective and its these poor pathetic excuses for techniques that give kickboxing a bad name.

Freddy
so what do you think of Freestyle clubs that focus on both ???

This may sound adversarial, its not meant to be.


What are the origins of 'kickboxing'?

The name itself sounds very new and westernised.

Maybe this is why people don't feel any 'tradition'.

Right or wrong, (I'll admit my ignorance) it is perceived as a new amalgamation of different aspects of different arts, with different 'kickboxing' national and international organisations offering championships at different levels of contact.

I guess I'm just curious why your take on 'kickboxing' is able to lay claim to be the only true type.

Kickboxing is a Boxing based discipline

without boxing techniques, rincraft and defense/conditioning its simply NOT kickboxing!

Dave mantis:
If they really did proper kickboxing then fair enuff if they only do a "bit of kickboxing" i.e. a bit of padwork or have a "cardio kickboxing" then theyre still freestyle karate
Now if theyre capable of turnin kickboxers out my hat goes off to them

So how old is kickboxing?

How did it originate?

Out of curiosity, just trying to find a validation to your assertion, see if there is substance to the claim or if its one mans opinion

I have read articles that claim an evolution from traditional karate to kick boxing. As I stated there are 'karate and kickboxing' organisations that have competitions that are at various contact levels.

Is this them 'hijacking' the term or was the term loose enough in the first place? Is it similar to the difference between Rugby league and Union. Same thing just a few different rules?

Ok here is what a lot of thsoe "kickboxin" clubs say
karate guys got frustrated with the limitations of soft contact levels and wanted to hit each other for real

Right?

1. Contact levels
2. Hit each other for real

what does that say to you?

FULL contact!

and the same clubs that try and sell what they do as kickboxing,
they wont even DREAM of teaching full contact techniques or full contact fighting.

The club i attend DO

www.sheffieldkickboxing.com

the leading kickboxing orgnaisations
e.g. WKA, WAKO-pro , ISKA, WKU and WKN
all want to distance themselves from semi contact point karate
as the style the tehcniques, the mothodology the trainign methods the stance are totally difference.

Example:
Kickboxing combo=

Jab cross Hoook

Semi cotnact combo=
Backfist reverse punch rdigehand


Kickboxing combo=
Jab cross to the head, Roundhouse to the body usin shin (with pwoer)

semi contact combo=
backfist to head reverse punch to body froudnhosue to ehad (usin a flick action without power , with less pwoer than a jab!)

I think this answers your question garryn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickboxing

To summarise:

The term kickboxing is disputed... the public uses the term generically to refer to [a number of] martial arts.

Kickboxing has its roots in Muay Thai, Savate and Karate. It was developed as a competitive sport by Japanese boxing promotor Osamu Noguchi. Muay Thai fighters were taken to Japan in 1966, and helped to develop a combined martial art which Noguchi named kick-boxing. When used by the practioners of these styles, it tends to refer to them specifically rather than the martial arts they were derived from.

But, it is a fairly generic term. Maybe the distinctions full contact and semi contact kickboxing would make a more accurate division between two very different styles.

crayfish
the encyclopeida you show has no mention of any stlye that resmbles "tiggy on the mats"

If by "semi contact kickboxing" you mean light continuous or "continuous sparring " then i do tolerate that as i have had a go at that system myself.
It is a diluted version of "american kickboxing" or "full contact"

Semi contact "hit with a back fist then fall on the floor and wait for a point to be called" has no application towards rin sport combat.

Yeah, get it now.

Suppose its one of the problems when something gets popular. Everyone wants a piece of the pie and ties what they're doing into it. You end up with a needle in a haystack situation trying to find a genuine club.

We seen it with Kickboxing, we're seeing it happen with BJJ. The legit ninjutsu guys are still trying to shake of the legacy of the 80's with dodgy films and people putting on a black gi and flogging 'ninjutsu'. They've even stuck the term ninjutsu into the background and gone 'taijutsu'

The BJJ community is still relatively small, so although there aren't that many clubs it's normally easy to tell a genuine BJJ club through it's affiliation. Also, to get a belt in BJJ you are graded by a BJJ blackbelt, and up until recently there haven't been any UK BJJ blackbelts (there are now a few), so that should help to maintain a standard of sorts.

also, many graded players in a local area are familiar with each other, either through attending seminars/gradings, or through training at different clubs. Again this makes it difficult for someone to suddenly appear with a blue belt for example, unless of course they're coming from overseas.

Freddy, about the kickboxing. I'm quite ignorant re: the rules and different types, but i recently saw a couple of poists on another forum. The first said that he thought kickboxing had rules that banned kick below the waist and that there was a minimum no. of kicks that had to be 'thrown' (?) each round. The second poster said that he thought these rules had been abolished in the 1980s. I was wondering what the score is there? which (if any) is correct?

cheers

Hi Anvil
there are two main systems of kickboxing:

1.One system called "Full contact" also called american kickboxing.
This style you wear Long satin bottoms and padded boots and can only kick above the belt.
Some of our guys fiht this style becoz they run/play footy/ need to walk the enxt day or becoz theyre from a boxing background and cudnt be arsed to condition their shins.

2. theres what they used to call "kickboxin rules" or "international rules"
sometimes called K-1 sometimes called superlaegue and soemtiems just called low kick
You fiht in shorts and you can kick to the legs (usin the bare shin) and soemtimes even knees with a limited clinch.

The 2nd format is most popular in europe and japan

over here tho if you say kickboxing they mean the first oen mopstly
At AFK :
www.sheffieldkickboxing.com we prac tsie both.

oh forgot to mentionm, just as a example
contrast ebtween 2 of our instructors:

Farhad Ali :
He holds a Title Belt or Two in the 2nd system (which is dead wierd that he chosoes to fiht in low kick rules as he is a really fast high kicker!), he wont figght the above the belt system anymore either (strange but true :P)

Andy Lacey:
Has doen low kick a couple of times, but most of his bouts were full contact rules and he went the distance TWICE with WKN world heavyweight champ Simon Dore (who has even fought in K-1 japan)

Hope BJJ doesn't suffer from the same problems other areas have had. Only problem is as interest rises theres more people start wanting a slice of the pie.

How many health clubs/gyms now offer 'kickboxing' (looks like I'm backing up freddie here?) classes and when you investigate further find its not much more than aerobics as the instructors have been told to turn it down due to insurance purposes and their members don't actually want to get hit!

Garryn how many of these "kickboxing" classes are actually tauht by a qualified kickboxing instructor or even a kickboxer come to think of it?

I know of a few, the most highly qualified I've won't mention on a public forum. Look at your PMs