Have you noticed when your on your way to work or somewhere else if your unlucky enough to be on the road about 8-30 the amount of bloody women who are taking their offspring to school.
These people are responsible for many of the jams we see in the mornings and something has to be done to change it,I know some who wont even walk mabe 50 yds to the school
I heard the goverment were considering bringing in staggerd times for school but it seems to have gone very quiet on this just lately.
I suppose I will get slated by mothers for saying this but it has to be said and anyway I feel much better for getting it off my chest.:D

What always amazes me is how many parents park in the zig zag bit at the gates. these are safety zones for the protection of children.
They have no problem putting their own and everyone elses kids at risk.
i lived next to a school years ago and one morning whilst trying to get out of my drive a lass blocked me in, shouted "i'll only be a minute" and disapeared before i could get out of my car,
20 minutes i waited while she strolled back chatting to another mum.

Quite right, Roy. Make 'em walk. I used to walk one and a half miles to school in the early sixties (oops! I gave my age away) and it never phased me, as you can see from my avatar.

I used to walk a mile to school, and that was only 10 years ago. Sometimes I would catch the bus, but I think my mum probably gave me a lift only about twice in 5 years.

The problem today is people are lazy and bone idle.

they could walk, get the bus, ride there bike

Originally posted by 40summat
What always amazes me is how many parents park in the zig zag bit at the gates. these are safety zones for the protection of children.


A child got hit by a car at the school near my sisters when someone tried to speed into the zig-zg bit to get a good parking space.

I think parents should be encouraged to walk their kids to school, but telling people where they can and can't drive galls me. I didn't buy my car to be told where and when I am allowed to use it.

Originally posted by Zinger549
they could walk, get the bus, ride there bike

Does this not apply to every other road user also then?

How can you possibly single out one section of society and give them their own set of rules?

my sons new school provides parking inside the school boundaries, so we don't have that problem of parents parking outside school..........saying that tho before the new school was built they did park their cars on both sides of the road causing all sorts of problems with buses and large trucks...........it was definately an accident waiting to happen.

we get the bus to school and walk down after school.........but i say something needs doing cause like i said b4 theres an accident waiting to happen

Originally posted by royjames
Have you noticed when your on your way to work or somewhere else if your unlucky enough to be on the road about 8-30 the amount of bloody women who are taking their offspring to school.


The chances are Roy, that these so called 'bloody women' are also on their way to work................. or don't you agree with that either Roy.

I think part of the problem is the fear parents have today and I think I would be the same if I was in that situation. Everyone knows there is only a very small chance of something happening to your child, but they don’t want to risk it. If by driving you annoy a bunch of other drivers but in turn you insure the safety of your own children, I would drive my kids to school everyday!

This problem is magnified by the fact pretty much EVERY child is driven to school these days. Now if all children when forced to walk to school, there would be less of a problem as children walk in groups and inevitably look out for each other, but if you where say the first parent to ditch the car and make your child(ren) walk, they would be doing so on there own and put in a vulnerable situation.

What we need in the UK are school busses like in the states where your child is picked up and dropped off from the door step. Also these buses (like in the states) should have right of way so they can get to school on time and not spend ages waiting for a conscientious driver to finally let then out of a side road!

Originally posted by Mo
Does this not apply to every other road user also then?

How can you possibly single out one section of society and give them their own set of rules?

'cos they're a right royal pain in the ass.
double parking,preventing buses & emergency vehicles past. parking as though rule don't exist,speeding,using a mobile whilst driving.parking on restircted zones & across peoples driveways.

and these people are meant to be setting an example to the offspring sat in the car.

Originally posted by Mo
The chances are Roy, that these so called 'bloody women' are also on their way to work................. or don't you agree with that either Roy.

yep but not all of them.

i know families close to me who drive past a primary school(which is 400 yards from thier home) to go to a different school less than 1 mile away the other side of the village.
how much more trouble is it to get the kids ready into a car & drive them, than pack the bag for them and walk 400 yards to school with them.
you could walk there and back before the cars off the driveway.

Originally posted by willman
'cos they're a right royal pain in the ass.
double parking,preventing buses & emergency vehicles past. parking as though rule don't exist,speeding,using a mobile whilst driving.parking on restircted zones & across peoples driveways.

and these people are meant to be setting an example to the offspring sat in the car.

You could go and stand in a street in any built up area and find examples of all of these happening on a daily basis.

Yes there are often problems outside schools at drop off and collection times but to suggest that all parents drive in this way is nonsense. Unfortunately, as in life the minority spoil things for the majority.

Originally posted by willman
yep but not all of them.

i know families close to me who drive past a primary school(which is 400 yards from thier home) to go to a different school less than 1 mile away the other side of the village.
how much more trouble is it to get the kids ready into a car & drive them, than pack the bag for them and walk 400 yards to school with them.
you could walk there and back before the cars off the driveway.

Sorry willman but it's called 'choice'.

Nobody tells you to shop at Morrisons because it's nearer than Tescos do they? To shop at McClures because it's nearer than Wickes?

Think about it ;)

Originally posted by serapis
I think part of the problem is the fear parents have today and I think I would be the same if I was in that situation. Everyone knows there is only a very small chance of something happening to your child, but they don’t want to risk it. If by driving you annoy a bunch of other drivers but in turn you insure the safety of your own children, I would drive my kids to school everyday!

Would you insist on accompanying when they go out to play though?
They can't be watched 24/7.

I do totaly agree with the school bus though, i can't really emagine a reason not to have these, even if a parent had to drive to a pick-up point it would cause less congestion than we see at school gates.

Originally posted by Mo
You could go and stand in a street in any built up area and find examples of all of these happening on a daily basis.

Yes there are often problems outside schools at drop off and collection times but to suggest that all parents drive in this way is nonsense. Unfortunately, as in life the minority spoil things for the majority.


yes u can find individual examples throughout the day.
the problem is everybody doing it at the same time, if more walked their kids to school there would be less traffic,less frustration etc.
some of the journeys are unnecesssary, just like making a special trip to fill up with fuel on a sunday.why not fill up whilst going to or coming back from somewhere.

Originally posted by Mo
The chances are Roy, that these so called 'bloody women' are also on their way to work................. or don't you agree with that either Roy.

http://www.serapis.plus.com/MrT_Says.jpg

Originally posted by Mo
Sorry willman but it's called 'choice'.

Nobody tells you to shop at Morrisons because it's nearer than Tescos do they? To shop at McClures because it's nearer than Wickes?

Think about it ;)

im not intending to tell people what to do, but in amongst the parents driving their kids to school there will be a decent percentage who will.
a) wish their kids went out more
b)wished thier kids got more exercise
c)wished the traffic was lighter or less congested on sheffield rd.
d)hate paying extortionate amounts for fuel.
but they still insist on driving miles.

and i do usually shop @ morrisons 'cos it's nearer(except for for the 2am munchies)& do shop & mcclures or order via the net to save me going out.

Originally posted by 40summat
Would you insist on accompanying when they go out to play though?
They can't be watched 24/7.

I do totaly agree with the school bus though, i can't really emagine a reason not to have these, even if a parent had to drive to a pick-up point it would cause less congestion than we see at school gates.

the only problem with school buses is policing them.
the behaviour of some of the kids sucks, plus you get them all smoking on the sly. i have complained re: certain school buses a number of times when my daughter was @ comp. little has changed.

Originally posted by willman
the only problem with school buses is policing them.
the behaviour of some of the kids sucks, plus you get them all smoking on the sly. i have complained re: certain school buses a number of times when my daughter was @ comp. little has changed.

Yes i was thinking more of the junior school kids as they are most vunerable. most older kids would rather find their own way, meet their mates, stop off for fags etc.

Originally posted by willman
im not intending to tell people what to do,

Yes you are;


Originally posted by willman
yep but not all of them.

i know families close to me who drive past a primary school(which is 400 yards from thier home) to go to a different school less than 1 mile away the other side of the village.


You are implying here that these people should choose the nearer school.

Originally posted by 40summat
Yes i was thinking more of the junior school kids as they are most vunerable. most older kids would rather find their own way, meet their mates, stop off for fags etc.

the unfortunate thing with junior schools is that technically they are usually within walking distance of the main catchment area so the buses are usually a non starter.
they would be a major asset in many communities though, particularly if they got priority like the do in the states.

any one living near c/peaks is in for one big shock over traffic congestion when the school moves from Westfield.

I, like lots and lots of people at my son's school drop him off on my way to work. I have to drive past the school anyway, and feel so much happier knowing full well that he is on the school premises while I am at work, rather than spending my time wondering if he has made it to school at all.

Yes things that happen are, thankfully, few and far between but I think the increase in parents taking their kids to school proves that people do feel more at risk now than ever before.

Also as the government in their wisdom decided to shut many schools, a lot of children now have to go out of area to school, and the provision of school transport is nothing like as good as it used to be - just look at the recent arguments regarding Westfield School.

It is something that I think is a combination of things: more mums now have to go to work, schools - in area - have been closed, many schools are old therefore don't have adequate parking, and parents are worried about the possible scum that walk our streets.

People dont do the school run just to p**s people off, many have their reasons for it!

Originally posted by Mo
Does this not apply to every other road user also then?

How can you possibly single out one section of society and give them their own set of rules?

Have of them probably only live about 5-10 mins away from the school

Originally posted by Zinger549
have of them porably onlty live about 5-10 mins aways from the school

Is this English? :D

Sorry couldn't help myself.

Originally posted by Mo
Yes you are;




You are implying here that these people should choose the nearer school.

so we're gonna start being selective on the qoutes, to support our arguments then.

i expressed an opinion on why people should take stock of what they are trying to achieve. not on which school they should choose.
i supported the statemnets with comment which u choose to ignore.

but if you want my honest opinion whcih u can select & use independently, a traffic warden should be outside every school morning & afternoon handing out tickets for parking infringements.
then they'll soon start walking to school.

Originally posted by serapis
Is this English? :D

Sorry couldn't help myself.

I'm guessing it was ''half of them only live about 5 - 10 minutes away from the school''.

Don't worry about it, I try and fathom out posts on many boards that are written incoherantly in many cases!

:)

RE: Choosing a nearby school - I caught two buses into school from where I live, as I did not choose the poor performing, close, rundown school - I went to one in one of the best areas of the borough, so concequently, I had to travel further.
I'd rather travel further, and have a better education, than the local poor performing dross on my doorstep.

:)

Originally posted by kentboy119
[B]I'm guessing it was ''half of them only live about 5 - 10 minutes away from the school''.

Thanks for that kentboy119.

If the government started putting money back into the roads, widening where needed, re-routing where required we might not be in this situation. The only maintenance local government will do it seems is paint their bloody road humps!

Maybe we need lowered cubs by schools to help Chelsea tractors move further off the road, or maybe a park and ride system where parents can take their kids to a central location and see them getting on a school bus knowing they will be safely delivered to school.

Currently there is no solution and I'm more than happy to drive through traffic if it means less children are in danger of getting run over or stanched by pervs!

Originally posted by Zinger549
Have of them probably only live about 5-10 mins away from the school

True they probably do but what is the difference between this and the person who gets the car out to collect a paper from the newsagents which is only 200 yds away? It is not peculiar to schools, it happens all the time.

FACT is that people are becoming more and more lazy when it comes to making very short journeys.

Originally posted by serapis
[B]maybe a park and ride system where parents can take their kids to a central location and see them getting on a school bus knowing they will be safely delivered to school.

Love that idea. Solves lot of issues in one go!

anyone who has ever lived near a school knows what a nightmare this is. the road ou live on is basically closed off twice in one day by idiots stopping/parking anywhere.

They should be made to car pool with other parents.

not difficult is it?

or let the little poppins go on a school bus.

Lots of views here I can relate to, but we're in danger of characterising all school runners as inconsiderate, female, 4x4 driving housewives/homemakers. Life for some of us is more complicated than that. I work full-time and my kids live with me part of the week only and, yes, they used to get ferried to infant and then junior school before I went on to work. I bought a property as close to their school(s) as I could afford and that's still miles away with no practicable bus route. I cycle to work two days a week, partly to do my bit to ease traffic congestion, but whoever tried to stop my occasional use of the car for the school run would have a helluva job on their hands. On the safety question, yes, I can empathise with those concerned we're over-protecting our kids, but infant-school age kids are vulnerable in many ways and the urge to protect kids is something guys without kids tend not to have, but I'm in danger of generalising so I'll shut up.

Considerate parking - yep, am all for that. Considerate driving and THINKING from others - would be a nice bonus.

Originally posted by Ron00
Lots of views here I can relate to, but we're in danger of characterising all school runners as inconsiderate, female, 4x4 driving housewives/homemakers. Life for some of us is more complicated than that. I work full-time and my kids live with me part of the week only and, yes, they used to get ferried to infant and then junior school before I went on to work. I bought a property as close to their school(s) as I could afford and that's still miles away with no practicable bus route. I cycle to work two days a week, partly to do my bit to ease traffic congestion, but whoever tried to stop my occasional use of the car for the school run would have a helluva job on their hands. On the safety question, yes, I can empathise with those concerned we're over-protecting our kids, but infant-school age kids are vulnerable in many ways and the urge to protect kids is something guys without kids tend not to have, but I'm in danger of generalising so I'll shut up.

Considerate parking - yep, am all for that. Considerate driving and THINKING from others - would be a nice bonus.

this is a problem for loads of folks i'm sure and being a conscientious parent is different to being bone idle.
i think the majority of complaints are geared to "homemakers" that could really walk to school and free up a bit of road.
there is more risk of the children being obese & having health problems than
a)perverts b) road accidents.

It seems to me that there is a deeper problem here. Some years ago (around 1980) when I was at junior school I used to walk the mile odd to school crossing a couple of major roads and with half the journey through a wood. I find it hard to believe that the real danger(the usual reason cited for ferrying kids around in cars) of anything happening to a child walking to school has actually increased to the point where they need to be wrapped up in 4*4s whenever they venture outside the family home. Are we actually educating kids to be scared and incapable of dealing with uncertainty and potential dangers and condemning them to a life of stress and anxiety because of how we deal with them now?

why is it everyone cites 4x4's as the vehicles for running kids to school in.
is it relevant what car is being used?

Originally posted by evildrneil
It seems to me that there is a deeper problem here. Some years ago (around 1980) when I was at junior school I used to walk the mile odd to school crossing a couple of major roads and with half the journey through a wood. I find it hard to believe that the real danger(the usual reason cited for ferrying kids around in cars) of anything happening to a child walking to school has actually increased to the point where they need to be wrapped up in 4*4s whenever they venture outside the family home. Are we actually educating kids to be scared and incapable of dealing with uncertainty and potential dangers and condemning them to a life of stress and anxiety because of how we deal with them now?

I agree, there is no more danger now than 20 years ago IMO, it's just the near hysteria that parents have whipped themselves into over the slightest potential danger. My sister works in A&E at the childrens hospital, they regularly have kids brought in because "he has a cough" or "his thumb hurts", I had to be nearly dead before I even got a day off school let alone a trip to the hospital.

We are creating a generation of whimps.

Originally posted by willman
why is it everyone cites 4x4's as the vehicles for running kids to school in.
is it relevant what car is being used?

Media thought control again.

Spot on there nick2 i've been thinking that for a few years now.

Originally posted by nick2
I agree, there is no more danger now than 20 years ago IMO, it's just the near hysteria that parents have whipped themselves into over the slightest potential danger. My sister works in A&E at the childrens hospital, they regularly have kids brought in because "he has a cough" or "his thumb hurts", I had to be nearly dead before I even got a day off school let alone a trip to the hospital.

We are creating a generation of whimps.


I absolutely agree. Maybe parents should roll their children to school in a cotton wool ball.
Having spent most of my youth walking or cycling at least a mile to and from school along busy roads, I fail to understand why parents drive their children to school.

And anyway isn't child mortality due to obesity on the rise????

Maybe parents should think about that!

I personally think that there is more danger for children now than 20 years ago.

Why does it matter if someone does want to "wrap up their child in cotton wool" and take them to school in a car?????

People with children understand, you love them unconditionally and with todays society (read the Sheffield Star sometime to see some of the scum out there), you cannot comprehend losing them, or them getting hurt, just becasue someone says that in order to free up the roads (obviously to give THEM more room), all people with children should boot them out of the door and make them walk!!!!

As I said before, people have their reasons for it, it isn't just down to 'bone idle parents' but then again even if it was what right has someone got to tell them that they shouldn't be doing it?

:rant:

Nobody has the right to tell anybody when to use their cars but maybe we all ought to look at our car useage and ask our selves is this journey really necessary.

And i'm as guilty as anyone so i'm not preaching just wondering.

Originally posted by Colorado
I personally think that there is more danger for children now than 20 years ago.


Well if you can find some statistics to prove that Ill be surprised.

The fact is on the way to school once, I got punched in the face, I nearly got knocked over etc. But thats life - it taught me to respect busy roads, to stand up for myself etc. The media create an illusion that every second person out there is a child killer. They're not!

Originally posted by TimmyR
The media create an illusion that every second person out there is a child killer. They're not!

And as several people have pointed out a child is at more danger from a relative, they are safer out on the street with their mates, it's also more fun and better for developing social skills, no child should be deprived of the joys of "privet hopping" or scrumping.

Originally posted by TimmyR
The media create an illusion that every second person out there is a child killer. They're not!


Try telling that to Sara Paynes parents.

How many children do you have?

Originally posted by Colorado
Try telling that to Sara Paynes parents.

How many children do you have?

how many children go to school safely every day?
the only incidents are usually those int he press, and as abhorrent as they are it is not as bad as some would have us think.

Originally posted by willman
how many children go to school safely every day?
the only incidents are usually those int he press, and as abhorrent as they are it is not as bad as some would have us think.

I agree. But the one's in the press are always someone's child...

I am not agreeing with keeping them in, or wrapping them in cotton wool, but the original thread seemed to be that people thought parents were taking their kids to school in cars because they were being over protective. IMO if it gives people piece of mind that their child has arrived safely at school then what has it got to do with anyone how they get there, whether it be car, bus, walking, taxi, bike or even the dreaded (in other peoples opinions - not mine) 4 x 4 ??

Originally posted by Colorado
I agree. But the one's in the press are always someone's child...

I am not agreeing with keeping them in, or wrapping them in cotton wool, but the original thread seemed to be that people thought parents were taking their kids to school in cars because they were being over protective. IMO if it gives people piece of mind that their child has arrived safely at school then what has it got to do with anyone how they get there, whether it be car, bus, walking, taxi, bike or even the dreaded (in other peoples opinions - not mine) 4 x 4 ??

Indeed. If a parent wats to take their child to school in the car then so be it. So what if it causes the other people that are moaning grief.

If you (and by you, I dont mean you Colorado) dont like the fact that you are sitting in traffic beacuse of the chool run,then why dont you walk or take public transport or whatever, why has it got to be the kids that do it.

When my child is old enough to go to school ill tell you straigh. I WILL be taking him in the car, I dont care what enyone else thinks. My childs safety is more important than anyones views.

i agree with your points however in the overall scheme of things the school run could have a major impact on traffic congestion, parking issues,child health problems.
i can't see any other adjustment having such a positive impact.
yep, we should walk for the paper etc.but if every school encourages 100-150 vehicles twice per day making unnecessary or short journeys everything else pales into insignificance.

Children should definitely be encourage to walk or get public transport to school. The problem is that this generation is being brought up by parents who don’t seem to believe in walking. They will make even the smallest journey by car out of sheer laziness (they will use justifications on safety grounds, but I will come to that in a moment!). This is also one of the major reasons why more and more kids are obese these days.

Another problem is that parents these days don’t seem satisfied with sending their children to the nearest school – they all study the league tables and try and get their kids in some school miles away because it has come two places higher up the league table than their local school. This then makes it all but impossible for their child to walk to school as it would take them half the day. What was so wrong with everyone just attending their local school? The school only has a relatively small part to play in how well the child achieves (they spend less than a 5th of their time there!), it is so much more dependent on the way the child has been brought up, supported and encouraged by their parents. By issuing league tables I really do feel the government has shot itself in the foot with regards to encouraging kids to walk to school.

On the safety factor – well, it is a fact that your child is no more likely to be abducted/murdered by a stranger now as children were 50 years ago. The main safety risk comes from – guess what – traffic! So encouraging your kids to walk to school will take a significant part of the vehicles off the road and will therefore significantly decrease the safety risk to kids walking to school!

Originally posted by Colorado
Try telling that to Sara Paynes parents.


I am in no way saying you shouldn't be protective of your children, that is somethign every parent should do.

There is a problem however, there are far too many cars on the road - this causes problems (one of which is pollution which could be linked to the increasing number of children with asthma). This problem IMO needs addressing.

One very evident source of cars on the road is the school run.(evident due to the surge at the start of term). Though not the only cause, it is one that could be tackled by the introduction of school buses or by kids walking to school.

Other arguments are that the dangers to kids haven't increased, but the number of people driving their kids to school has. This is due to sensationalising media dwelling at length on any case of child mollestation etc. This leads to the belief in the public eye that the dangers have increased.

And by walking you reduce the risk of being injured/killed in a car crash to, well, zero.

Furthermore, I really would be intrigued to see the mortality rates of kids walking to school and those due to obesity say 20 years ago compared to the same figures today. I really do believe that this sedentary lifestyle that many kids grow up with is doing a lot more harm than any murderers.

Originally posted by TimmyR
Furthermore, I really would be intrigued to see the mortality rates of kids walking to school and those due to obesity say 20 years ago compared to the same figures today. I really do believe that this sedentary lifestyle that many kids grow up with is doing a lot more harm than any murderers.


Taking your kid to and from school twice a day isnt going to make them obese. Thats neither here nor there

Originally posted by spyro2000
Taking your kid to and from school twice a day isnt going to make them obese. Thats neither here nor there

Perhaps not directly related, but kids aren't only driven to and from school...

And you cannot deny child obesity is on the up, alarmingly so.

Originally posted by Colorado
I personally think that there is more danger for children now than 20 years ago.

Why does it matter if someone does want to "wrap up their child in cotton wool" and take them to school in a car?????

People with children understand, you love them unconditionally and with todays society (read the Sheffield Star sometime to see some of the scum out there), you cannot comprehend losing them, or them getting hurt, just becasue someone says that in order to free up the roads (obviously to give THEM more room), all people with children should boot them out of the door and make them walk!!!!

:rant:

Have you not thought that is is actually the reporting of these crimes that has increased rather than their incidence? A VERY small number of children are killed by strangers each year – something like 5 to 7 per year. This number has remained constant since around 1950. So you can’t really argue there is increased risk there.

There is also a lot of hysteria over paedophiles, but their actual numbers are incredibly small (on another thread recently I calculated that around 0.2% of the adult male population is a registered sex offender – an even smaller proportion of which will be paedophiles). Most children who are sexually abused, are abused by someone they know, not someone who has lured them off the street. So again, people are running their children’s lives around something that is an incredible small risk.

I don’t accept the argument that anyone without children just doesn’t understand. It is an argument that is used when no rational response can be thought of. No one wants to see children harmed – whether they are parents or not – to suggest that someone without children can’t understand is quite patronising.

But, as I have said in my previous post – the greatest risk to children when walking to school (and the only one to have greatly increased over the years) is from road traffic accidents. Your child is also at risk of this when they are being driven to school. But at least if they walk instead then it is one less car on the road – one less chance of an accident. If everyone did this who could then the risk would be significantly reduced.

When I was at school if you walked you used to get a sticker and if you got a sticker for every day you got a certificate.

I think this is a brilliant idea as it makes the kids feel right good.
________
Effects of wellbutrin (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

when we walked to school we got a free education as opposed to a free childminding service that people today think they have the right too.

Originally posted by banesmabes

But, as I have said in my previous post – the greatest risk to children when walking to school (and the only one to have greatly increased over the years) is from road traffic accidents. Your child is also at risk of this when they are being driven to school. But at least if they walk instead then it is one less car on the road – one less chance of an accident. If everyone did this who could then the risk would be significantly reduced.

I disagree.

In fact with less cars on the road, I believe that there would be more accidents, as there would be swarms of kids on the street. And if there was no school run then there would hardly be any cars on the road, meaning that cars would be travelling much faster, what with kids not taking care when crossing the road that can only be an increased danger. When theres is a school run there is usually a traffic jam, therefore very unlikely for a child to be struck by a car,

As I said earlier, I work, without a car I could not work as I don't happen to work in my corner shop.

I could not walk my child to school and then go and catch a bus and be at work for 9am.

So I leave my home, drive to the school gates, (which I happen to be passing) child get's out and runs off to play football which he does every day, and for a team at weekends - so we have no worries about the journey to school making him obese!

I am then safe in the knowledge that he is on the school premises, and playing with lots of friends that have also been dropped off in exactly the same manner, as any parent will tell you there is nothing worse than spending the day wondering if your child is ok, and the only time that you would find out if anything was wrong would be if they didn't come out of school 6 hours later.

I then continue my journey to work. In the car that I have paid for, paid tax for, paid Insurance for, and therefore am entitled to drive where-ever and when-ever I want to, just like everyone else.

Originally posted by spyro2000
I disagree.

In fact with less cars on the road, I believe that there would be more accidents, as there would be swarms of kids on the street. And if there was no school run then there would hardly be any cars on the road, meaning that cars would be travelling much faster, what with kids not taking care when crossing the road that can only be an increased danger. When theres is a school run there is usually a traffic jam, therefore very unlikely for a child to be struck by a car,

what a load of twaddle.
whn schools are closed there is no difference in speeding, so why should we drive faster when the kids are around.

Originally posted by willman
what a load of twaddle.


I think he was joking.

Originally posted by willman
what a load of twaddle.
whn schools are closed there is no difference in speeding, so why should we drive faster when the kids are around.

How is it a load of twaddle.

Is it not common sense that people drive faster when there ISNT a traffic jam? :)

Originally posted by Colorado
As I said earlier, I work, without a car I could not work as I don't happen to work in my corner shop.

I could not walk my child to school and then go and catch a bus and be at work for 9am.

So I leave my home, drive to the school gates, (which I happen to be passing) child get's out and runs off to play football which he does every day, and for a team at weekends - so we have no worries about the journey to school making him obese!

I am then safe in the knowledge that he is on the school premises, and playing with lots of friends that have also been dropped off in exactly the same manner, as any parent will tell you there is nothing worse than spending the day wondering if your child is ok, and the only time that you would find out if anything was wrong would be if they didn't come out of school 6 hours later.

I then continue my journey to work. In the car that I have paid for, paid tax for, paid Insurance for, and therefore am entitled to drive where-ever and when-ever I want to, just like everyone else.

no one is disputing that in a lot of cases it is vital to drive to school,however i would imagine that you don't leave your car parked outside school whilst u stop & have a natter.
it's the unnecessary & short journeys & the lack of respect to other people by the car drivers taht prompted this post.

Originally posted by spyro2000
How is it a load of twaddle.

Is it not common sense that people drive faster when there ISNT a traffic jam? :)

no not past schools or speed cameras or sleeping policemen which ar enear schools.how many normal intelligent people speed up near a school.however when we've got past all the idle numpties we have to speed up to get to work on time.

Originally posted by willman
no one is disputing that in a lot of cases it is vital to drive to school,however i would imagine that you don't leave your car parked outside school whilst u stop & have a natter.
it's the unnecessary & short journeys & the lack of respect to other people by the car drivers taht prompted this post.


Now that makes sense. People shouldnt stop and hang about after they have dropped their child off, but in general I see nothing wrong with the school run. Its the inconsiderate parents that need to be sorted out.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Now that makes sense. People shouldnt stop and hang about after they have dropped their child off, but in general I see nothing wrong with the school run. Its the inconsiderate parents that need to be sorted out.

in all fairness thats been my point all day.

I find it strange that in America where the car is everything, all the kids get on nice yellow buses to get to school. Safe, less cars on the road, cheap.

Seems they do get some things right over there.

Willman I know what you are saying, but people are generalising again.

However small the journey, and whatever people are doing on that journey, if they have paid all of their due's and demands for their vehicle then why shouldn't they use it?

I agree that I would not be so ignorant to park in a totally unsuitable place (if I parked up which I don't), and yes these people need telling but I don't think that anyone can tell them that they shouldn't be using their car at all.

2 b honest i dont really care, i try & avoid the idiots in my village parking on both sides of the road.
my own child is grown up & healthy (from walking to school) so it has nominal effect on me.
but for the children themselves & the environment some alternate method would be beneficial.but unfortunately no one wants to make any sacrifices for any one else anymore.

Originally posted by Colorado
However small the journey, and whatever people are doing on that journey, if they have paid all of their due's and demands for their vehicle then why shouldn't they use it?


Because cars cause pollution, congest the roads and promote laziness. And to be honest, I have yet to make a short journey in sheffield during rush hour or at other times where it would have been any quicker to drive (I cycle everywhere).

Generalising is a good thing, because if, in general, the number of car journeys were reduced then the above problems would be reduced also. Perhaps in your (or other peoples) cases it doesn't make sense to not drive for whatever reason but 10 other people find they have alternatives, surely that is something that should be promoted???

Originally posted by willman
2 b honest i dont really care, i try & avoid the idiots in my village parking on both sides of the road.
my own child is grown up & healthy (from walking to school) so it has nominal effect on me.
but for the children themselves & the environment some alternate method would be beneficial.but unfortunately no one wants to make any sacrifices for any one else anymore.

You say that your child gre up healty from walking to school, and I myself grew up healthy (from NOT walking to school), so I dont see what the problem is. It didnt do me any hard. Im far from obese also.

Originally posted by TimmyR
Because cars cause pollution, congest the roads and promote laziness. And to be honest, I have yet to make a short journey in sheffield during rush hour or at other times where it would have been any quicker to drive (I cycle everywhere).

Generalising is a good thing, because if, in general, the number of car journeys were reduced then the above problems would be reduced also. Perhaps in your (or other peoples) cases it doesn't make sense to not drive for whatever reason but 10 other people find they have alternatives, surely that is something that should be promoted???

If thats the case then maybe we should ban cars altogether shall we.

Originally posted by spyro2000
You say that your child gre up healty from walking to school, and I myself grew up healthy (from NOT walking to school), so I dont see what the problem is. It didnt do me any hard. Im far from obese also.


i was being sarcastic.

Originally posted by willman
i was being sarcastic.

Then use the sarcastic smilie to indicate this.

Originally posted by spyro2000
If thats the case then maybe we should ban cars altogether shall we.

Perhaps we should yes. :sarcastic smilie:

Originally posted by TimmyR
Perhaps we should yes. :sarcastic smilie:

The difference is that I wasnt being sarcastic.

Well IMO we should ban push bikes. Silly things they are - wibbly wobbling through town, getting in the way of my car, riding on a road that I pay towards...:rolleyes:

See, we all have opinions and can generalise, but you like your push bike as it suits your needs, my car suits mine and my son's needs.

Think how much your PAYE would increase if the government lost all of the revenue collected from the car driver.... can't see 'em banning it can you?

Originally posted by spyro2000
The difference is that I wasnt being sarcastic.


So you are actually suggesting that all cars should be banned?

Thats how it reads if you remove sarcasm.

Originally posted by Colorado
Well IMO we should ban push bikes. Silly things they are - wibbly wobbling through town, getting in the way of my car, riding on a road that I pay towards...:rolleyes:

See, we all have opinions and can generalise, but you like your push bike as it suits your needs, my car suits mine and my son's needs.

Think how much your PAYE would increase if the government lost all of the revenue collected from the car driver.... can't see 'em banning it can you?

What are you on about?

In no way am I going to take the "I pay for the roads so you shouldn't be on them" rubbish, its been done to death.

Did I at any point suggest that cars should be banned?

Originally posted by TimmyR
What are you on about?

You like to cycle, I HAVE to drive.

You have your reasons, I have mine. Simple really.

This is why I was talking about things in general, rather than directing them at you.

Originally posted by TimmyR
So you are actually suggesting that all cars should be banned?

Thats how it reads if you remove sarcasm.

No, it was actually a question (Yes I know I forgot to submit a question mark) and it ended in "shall we".

But anyway back to the point.... No one can tell me when and where I can drive my car. As long as its legal then I will drive wherever I want and that includes driving my child to school.

Originally posted by spyro2000
.

But anyway back to the point.... No one can tell me when and where I can drive my car. As long as its legal then I will drive wherever I want and that includes driving my child to school. [/B]


And that attitude is half the reason why we have congestion.
Its the im alright jack attitude,well sorry but if you and the rest continue to think like that then we have NO hope of resolving the problem.
Getting back to the thread its plain to see that many mums who are NOT going to work simply get in the car and dont think of the consequences for the traffic problems they bring anf the affect of a lack of exercise has on their offspring:thumbsup:

Originally posted by nick2
And by walking you reduce the risk of being injured/killed in a car crash to, well, zero.

This is quite a relevant point and shouldn't be ignored.

Can somebody out there find out how many children were killed in car crashes last year... and how many were killed by strangers?

I just have this overwhelming feeling that.... well you know.

2004 -
The combined number of children killed or seriously injured was 3905 - a drop of 5%. Of those 2339 were pedestrians.

Pedestrian casualties were 34,881. Of which up to 671 suffered fatal injuries. Significantly down on 2003

Pedal cyclist injuries were at 16.648

25,641 motorcyclists were injured of which 585 were killed. This latter statistic represented a sharp reduction of 16% on 2003 statistics. 6063 were seriously injured.

http://www.theclaimsconnection.co.uk/road-accident-claims1.html

Also -
http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/statistics.htm

It's true that people have the right to use their cars when they like, including the school run, going to get a paper, driving all of two miles to work etc. And its also true that this kind of behaviour is harmful to the environment.

But the thing is not to try and stop people doing it by threatening them with a big stick. Some people have valid reasons for doing a 'school run' e.g. may be going to work right afterwards (and parents lead busy lives) so walking is not an option, may live in rural areas, cost of buses may be too high etc. The list could go on I'm sure. But in just as many cases there's probably no good reason to do it, and these are the people who ought to be targeted, but again, not with a big stick.

There ought to be benefits in not using a car when it isn't necessary e.g. free parking at work when you car share. The best idea I can think of for discouraging school runs is to have free bus passes, as simple as that. I think currently kids only get them if they live more than 3 miles from school, which seems incredibly short sighted to me; if the council really wants to cut congestion then it ought to put its cards on the table and do something practical about it like this!

Even so, some will still go by car. Some kids get bullied on the bus, some have after school activities, and they all seem to cart huge heavy bags about these days.

Originally posted by spyro2000
I disagree.

In fact with less cars on the road, I believe that there would be more accidents, as there would be swarms of kids on the street. And if there was no school run then there would hardly be any cars on the road, meaning that cars would be travelling much faster, what with kids not taking care when crossing the road that can only be an increased danger. When theres is a school run there is usually a traffic jam, therefore very unlikely for a child to be struck by a car,

So fewer cars on the roads = more accidents?!?

Look at this way. Generally traffic jams are in one direction, with the other direction of traffic flowing relatively freely. This means that the stationary/slow moving line of traffic increases hazards because it blocks the view of pedestrians wanting to cross the road and of drivers coming in the other direction. A child waiting to cross the road from the side of a traffic jam generally has to move into the middle of the road before they can see if anything is coming in the other direction. They then have to almost step out into the other side of the road so that they have a free view of what is coming. The drivers coming the other way often cannot see children standing amongst cars at a standstill waiting to cross. Hence the chance of an accident is higher. Take one car off the road it helps to alleviate this problem a little. Take many cars off the road and you help to alleviate it a lot. As someone else has said I have seen no evidence of cars speeding because of less traffic during school holidays. Less traffic on the road means fewer hazards and a greater perception of hazards that are there.

The fact is there are a lot of parents driving their kids to school when they could just as easily walk. Like anyone else who drives when it is not entirely necessary they will use every excuse under the sun to justify their behaviour.

I don't begrudge people owning a car, but I do begrudge people using them without any real consideration for the long-term consequences. In this case raising a generation of kids who are obese and don't know how to use their legs. But generally the lack of regard for the huge environmental damage each individual driver is causing when they get behind the wheel of their car is shocking. Use your car with consideration for what sort of world you are going to leave behind for your great grandchildren to deal with and only when it is absolutely necessary, not just because it is what's most convenient to you.

Schools need either appropriate parking facilities for parents to park and drop off their kids, or we need America style yellow buses to ferry our children to and from school.

The current situation does not help matters and it’s only going to get worse as populations grow and more and more schools are closed down and uber-schools take over. Especially when they are being built further and further out of town!

One of the big problems is the haphazard way some people park when dropping off their offspring. If they took better care not to half block the road then less people would get hot under the collar about it. Also if the parents didn't use this time as a quick social event and spend there time chatting o other mums and dads then the congestion problems could be minimised.

I don’t personally disagree with driving children to school, but when the journey is unnecessary and short your child, you and other people are being affected. You child is missing out on exercise and so are you, but more importantly the amount of pollutions caused by your car is directly attributed to the rise in childhood breathing diseases. Cars produce more pollution on short journey that’s long ones.

I went to school in a little village no more than a mile and a half wide. Now in the years I went to this school there where no cars parked outside as everyone either walked with friends or with their parents (usually their mother). Now I drive past some years later to see about 40 cars parked outside. The village had hardly changed and no more than 10 new houses had been built in that time. The school was for the village only so everyone there came from the village somewhere. Why is there a need for these cars? Being a pretty small village I knew most people and I know they where not simply dropping the kids off then going to work. The vast majority where house wives.

Originally posted by Mo
The chances are Roy, that these so called 'bloody women' are also on their way to work................. or don't you agree with that either Roy.

the traffic jams mysteriously evaporate in the holidays though. So a significant fraction are not driving to work (or are teachers).

When I was studying for my BA in Canterbury, the "walking bus" scheme was taking off and quite a few schools in the city were adopting it, have a look:

http://www.kentwalkingbus.org/wb_video.asp

Not a bad idea I think, so long as you don't live out of town/really far from your school.

<snip> league table than their local school. This then makes it all but impossible for their child to walk to school as it would take them half the day. What was so wrong with everyone just attending their local school? <snip>

Even though I didn't go to a local school - this town where I am does not have a local secondary school, so they send you to one up in Erith, or slightly better, one in Belvedere, I chose to go to the one in Sidcup - and because of that I caught two buses.

I caught the first bus at 0736, this got me into the main town at 0802h; the second bus at 0811h, to get me into school at 0831h - started at 0835h.

Although, I know of someone who gets dropped off in the car for a trip that is 20 minutes!

:)

Originally posted by KookyKoo
When I was studying for my BA in Canterbury, the "walking bus" scheme was taking off and quite a few schools in the city were adopting it, have a look:

http://www.kentwalkingbus.org/wb_video.asp

Not a bad idea I think, so long as you don't live out of town/really far from your school.

I just saw Rochester Castle in that Teddy Bear / Medway clip.

:)

At the end of the day all drivers will suffer, if we can't be responsible enough to regulate our own car useage the government will.

The government is under pressure to solve the traffic situation and some of the way's it can achive it is by taxing us off the road, bus lanes, congestion zones, banning us for creeping over the limit in non black spot areas, toll roads, just making it so expensive or easy to loose our licences.
but until then we'll just carry on.

Originally posted by willman
when we walked to school we got a free education as opposed to a free childminding service that people today think they have the right too.

agreed.

they should bring in a law making it illegal(or a £50 fine) to commute into the city centre unless there is more than one person in a car. Obviously not applying to anyone using their car for work. Most people can easily get into the centre by public transport and must know several people also travelling into the centre.

There shouldn't be more parking spaces for schools or more roads.

Children should go to schools in their area where possible. Parents shouldn't be able to pick and choose schools.

Secondary schools should operate bus pick-ups a-la- King Edwards where there is a set bus route around the caption area there and back every day.

The amount of people who drive into work because they are either too lazy or snobbish to use public transport or walk scares me. Yes, busses aren't exatly 5* trasnport but they are hardly that bad. Maybe if they reduces bus fares then more people would be inclined to use them.

Originally posted by Colorado
As I said earlier, I work, without a car I could not work as I don't happen to work in my corner shop.

I could not walk my child to school and then go and catch a bus and be at work for 9am.



You don't have to work at your corner shop in order to avoid using a car for work. If you let your child walk to school, you can set off for work (on the bus) earlier than if you escorted your child to school yourself and still be at work on time. It's not difficult, people have done it for generations.

Originally posted by 40summat
At the end of the day all drivers will suffer, if we can't be responsible enough to regulate our own car useage the government will.

The government is under pressure to solve the traffic situation and some of the way's it can achive it is by taxing us off the road, bus lanes, congestion zones, banning us for creeping over the limit in non black spot areas, toll roads, just making it so expensive or easy to loose our licences.
but until then we'll just carry on.

What? Why? Why do we need to cut congestion? Why can’t this government invest in new roads? And maintain the ones that are already there?

Just because road usage has change, this doesn't mean we have to stick to an past-time ideal that never actually existed!

We are a developed country and if we don’t continue to develop and invest in the things that make this country dynamic, then the likes of china and the rest of the fast encroaching nations will overtake us. You don’t see congestion charges in China? You don’t see them taxing their citizens out of there cars!

Why do the anti car types think we need to go backwards in order to progress?

since children rarely have any other pressing appointments there is no good reason for them not to walk if the journey is say less an a couple of miles.
If there mothers are on the way to work, then they can go when they need too and not detour via the school, thus allowing their little treasure to get some much needed excerise and independance and allowing them to set of 5 mins later.

The suggestion that it is unfair to pick out this group ignores a few points I think, which alter things somewhat. The primary one being that the children don't drive themselves. Secondly the children have enough time in almost every instance to walk themselves there, there's no good reason to drive them if it's a short distance.

I suppose at the end of the day this is down to education though, in this case the education of the parents that what they are doing is socially irresponsible.

Originally posted by serapis
What? Why? Why do we need to cut congestion? Why can’t this government invest in new roads? And maintain the ones that are already there?

Just because road usage has change, this doesn't mean we have to stick to an past-time ideal that never actually existed!

We are a developed country and if we don’t continue to develop and invest in the things that make this country dynamic, then the likes of china and the rest of the fast encroaching nations will overtake us. You don’t see congestion charges in China? You don’t see them taxing their citizens out of there cars!

Why do the anti car types think we need to go backwards in order to progress?

so moving forwards is building more roads, having more congestion and pollution, more cars on the roads and therefore more deaths?

That is progression? really?

you don't see our level of car ownership in China.

what are you going to do when the oil runs out? Or Rotherham gets submerged in a flash flood caused by global warming (now that would be an event)?

car ownership makes this country dynamic :P never heard anything so funny in my life.

plus kids walking to work will make them healthier.

Originally posted by serapis
What? Why? Why do we need to cut congestion? Why can’t this government invest in new roads? And maintain the ones that are already there?

Just because road usage has change, this doesn't mean we have to stick to an past-time ideal that never actually existed!

We are a developed country and if we don’t continue to develop and invest in the things that make this country dynamic, then the likes of china and the rest of the fast encroaching nations will overtake us. You don’t see congestion charges in China? You don’t see them taxing their citizens out of there cars!

Why do the anti car types think we need to go backwards in order to progress?

I'm not anti car infact i love going for a drive when i can, where do you think these roads the government should invest in go? how many congested areas have room for new roads?
The country can't get bigger but compared to not too long ago we now have 2+ cars per family, youngsters straight out of school are driving,
just because you can't remember when driving was easier than it is now doesn't mean it never existed. go and ask your dad.

China?..... a country with 540 million bicycles, where reckless cycling gets you a ticket and Beijing with 11 million cycles in a population of12.8 million.
(figures sourced from tinternet where's fareast?)
How can you compare the uk with China?

Originally posted by serapis
What? Why? Why do we need to cut congestion? Why can’t this government invest in new roads? And maintain the ones that are already there?

Just because road usage has change, this doesn't mean we have to stick to an past-time ideal that never actually existed!

We are a developed country and if we don’t continue to develop and invest in the things that make this country dynamic, then the likes of china and the rest of the fast encroaching nations will overtake us. You don’t see congestion charges in China? You don’t see them taxing their citizens out of there cars!

Why do the anti car types think we need to go backwards in order to progress?

yeah well we have a lot less land than china. So is it is less an issue for them. We have finite space and cant just concrete it all over.

Originally posted by robbie
so moving forwards is building more roads, having more congestion and pollution, more cars on the roads and therefore more deaths?

That is progression? really?

you don't see our level of car ownership in China.

what are you going to do when the oil runs out? Or Rotherham gets submerged in a flash flood caused by global warming (now that would be an event)?

car ownership makes this country dynamic :P never heard anything so funny in my life.

Are you really that blind? Have you not seen the adverts for dual fuel cars, hybrid cars ... within 10-15 years these cars are going to be the mainstay of production. So what will we do then, when people like you have given the government the excuse not to invest in roads huh?

The main and only valid excuse for the tax levied on cars is due to pollution, but once this has gone there will be no excuse! Again looking to the past to make judgments on the future!

And yes car ownership makes the working population of the country dynamic. It means we have a mobile work force to who don’t have to travel to work by public transport. We no longer have to live in cities crowded together for work you can work and live 50 miles apart if you want. "Dynamic" Not my words bye the way, they where said by the leader of T&G some time ago!

flying cars that's what we need.

although I've always been of the opinion that the Supertram should have been build entirely off ground where possible. Therefore, you are not taking space away from busses, vans, cars etc.

Originally posted by 40summat
I'm not anti car infact i love going for a drive when i can, where do you think these roads the government should invest in go? how many congested areas have room for new roads?
The country can't get bigger but compared to not too long ago we now have 2+ cars per family, youngsters straight out of school are driving,
just because you can't remember when driving was easier than it is now doesn't mean it never existed. go and ask your dad.

China?..... a country with 540 million bicycles, where reckless cycling gets you a ticket and Beijing with 11 million cycles in a population of12.8 million.
(figures sourced from tinternet where's fareast?)
How can you compare the uk with China?

With the level of car ownership compared to licence ownership the only way congestion levels are going to rise significantly in line with previous years is if we started learning how to drive two cars at once!

We are almost at saturation point.

China is an emerging economy that will surpass our own. I don’t believe it will become the dominant economic power wise but it will grow and grow. My reason for referring to them is they are progressing. They are pushing forward and by doing so becoming bigger and stronger every year. If we continue to hinder our own people, if we make it harder for people to go to work, do you think big multinational companies will want to locate here? No, they will move their investment elsewhere, somewhere where their workers can travel too and from work without being slapped with a huge bill for doing so.

It seems strange - when i were at school (early 90s) pretty much no-one got dropped off by their parents - everyone walked, you'd meet up with a few of your buds en route, sneak a crafty fag in later years, I wouldn't have had a lift even if my folks had have been inclined to offer.

When I was at infants mum used to walk us there.

Have things changed that much in 15 yrs?

(oh - and i was a right fat git at school so the walking obviously made no difference there :D )

Originally posted by Saifa
It seems strange - when i were at school (early 90s) pretty much no-one got dropped off by their parents - everyone walked, you'd meet up with a few of your buds en route, sneak a crafty fag in later years, I wouldn't have had a lift even if my folks had have been inclined to offer.

When I was at infants mum used to walk us there.

Have things changed that much in 15 yrs?

(oh - and i was a right fat git at school so the walking obviously made no difference there :D )

You just reminded me of something there about not wanting a lift.
My dad, when he stopped riding motorbikes decided to buy a plastic pig (three wheeler) and being proud of his purchase thought he'd give me a lift from school in it. luckily i spotted him and dodged out over the sports field and got home before him.
mind you it was the reliant super van with metalic paint, so not yer run of the mill plasic pig.

Originally posted by serapis
With the level of car ownership compared to licence ownership the only way congestion levels are going to rise significantly in line with previous years is if we started learning how to drive two cars at once!

We are almost at saturation point.


Not if you consider that as the older generation pass on, the next lot of people to replace them will be more and more likely to have cars. Will you see many grannies making the hundred yard dash for the bus in 20 years? No, because they'll be in cars. More and more students have cars, and people can now more easily afford them.

Where can more roads go though? If you think of Sheffield, the most congested roads are probably Ecclesall Rd, Abbeydale Rd and Chesterfield Rd; there's no room for any expansion on or even remotely near to any of those roads.

The answer is probably not to have us go to the office at all. :clap:

in fact I remember the kids that did get dropped off at school got abuse in my day. they had to get mummy to drop them round the corner so no one saw them:D

Please somebody why it isnt alright for someone to drive a car if they are dropping their child off to school, but its alright to drive your car at the same time in morning if its for another reason?

Originally posted by spyro2000
Please somebody why it isnt alright for someone to drive a car if they are dropping their child off to school, but its alright to drive your car at the same time in morning if its for another reason?

If it is yet another journey that can be done by alternative means then it isn't alright (as far as I'm concerned).

Originally posted by 40summat
At the end of the day all drivers will suffer, if we can't be responsible enough to regulate our own car useage the government will.


Just think how much money the council could make froma congestion charge like they have in London, We'll see how essential some journeys are when they cost £5.

Originally posted by banesmabes
If it is yet another journey that can be done by alternative means then it isn't alright (as far as I'm concerned).

ALL journeys can be done by other means, so that point is not valid.

Originally posted by banesmabes
If it is yet another journey that can be done by alternative means then it isn't alright (as far as I'm concerned).

Why does it have to be by alternative means? Because you say so?

We all know this debate is going to go on for years and by the time any conclusion has been made, more fuel efficient, greener cars will be available. There is a good chance hydrogen fuel cell cars will be available which only by-product is pure H20. So what will the argument be then? Congestion? So what! The more cars driving around the road, the more money available for the likes of the NHS, Schools and government.

The government put less than 10% of the money taken through taxation on cars etc in all its forms back into the roads. The rest goes to all other parts of government. Without this money we would be in a worse position than we are today. You can pretty much wipe out one whole department of the government. So what shall it be? The NHS? Or maybe the emergency services? How about secondary schools?

Originally posted by serapis
The government put less than 10% of the money taken through taxation on cars etc in all its forms back into the roads. The rest goes to all other parts of government.

See here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/business_petrol_pricing/html/3.stm) for stats (sorry I posted this in the petrol protest thread as well, but it's interesting and relevant to this!)

Originally posted by spyro2000
Please somebody why it isnt alright for someone to drive a car if they are dropping their child off to school, but its alright to drive your car at the same time in morning if its for another reason?

who said it was.
It's socially irresponsible to drive for a short journey without a damn good reason.
Most other early morning journeys would probably have a much better reason than taking the kids to school, hence the focus on that one journey.

Originally posted by KookyKoo
See here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/business_petrol_pricing/html/3.stm) for stats (sorry I posted this in the petrol protest thread as well, but it's interesting and relevant to this!)

Sorry its a 5:1 ratio so 20%

Originally posted by Cyclone
...It's socially irresponsible to drive for a short journey without a damn good reason...

Why is it sociably unacceptable? It might be to anti-car types in the same way eating meat would be sociably unacceptable to some vegans! Should we all stop eating meat too?

Originally posted by serapis
Without this money we would be in a worse position than we are today. You can pretty much wipe out one whole department of the government. So what shall it be? The NHS? Or maybe the emergency services? How about secondary schools?

Secondary Schools.
In the spirit of this thread, "It doesn't effect me so I don't care."

Originally posted by nick2
Secondary Schools.
In the spirit of this thread, "It doesn't effect me so I don't care."

lol :clap:

Originally posted by Cyclone

It's socially irresponsible to drive for a short journey without a damn good reason.


Whats so irresponsible about it?

Originally posted by spyro2000
Whats so irresponsible about it?

the contribution to congestion and damage to the environment.
which makes any unnecesary journey irresponsible (but more so in rush hour).

Originally posted by serapis
Why is it sociably unacceptable? It might be to anti-car types in the same way eating meat would be sociably unacceptable to some vegans! Should we all stop eating meat too?

I said irresponsible not unacceptable, please don't misquote me.

Eating meat whilst some people might find it morally wrong doesn't directly impact them. Ie they aren't held up in a queue of traffic because someone else bought a nice juicy steak.
Nor does eating meat cause serious environmental harm (although it may actually cause some, i've not checked).

I suppose it's similar to the difference between drinking and smoking in public, one has an effect only on you, the other has an effect on everyone.

Originally posted by Cyclone
the contribution to congestion and damage to the environment.
which makes any unnecesary journey irresponsible (but more so in rush hour).

Long journeys also contribute to congestion and damage the environment.

And like I have said. Nobody really has to take a car to go ANYWHERE whatsoever, but we choose to do so amd I like to have freedom of choice.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Long journeys also contribute to congestion and damage the environment.

And like I have said. Nobody really has to take a car to go ANYWHERE whatsoever, but we choose to do so amd I like to have freedom of choice.

that's nonesense and you know it.

The car enables the workforce to be distributed.
We deliberately created a network of schools so that school children aren't distributed.
There are good reasons for using cars for longer journeys despite the environmental impacts and congestion. And for other journeys such as to the supermarket (just one example) which whilst short may mean you're bringing back a lot of stuff.

School children generally live within a mile or two of school, they have no time issues around getting their and bus services are provided virtually free of charge for them.
That contrasts strongly with most working adults, where the distance is generally much further, the time issues more acute and the public transport unsuitable for one reason or another.

Originally posted by banesmabes
You don't have to work at your corner shop in order to avoid using a car for work. If you let your child walk to school, you can set off for work (on the bus) earlier than if you escorted your child to school yourself and still be at work on time. It's not difficult, people have done it for generations.


Ok then, so you are now suggesting I leave my child 'home alone' whilst I go off and catch a bus, AT LEAST AN HOUR before he would have to leave the house for school?????

If only life were as simple as some people seem to think it is.....

Yes is is true that the car enables the workforce to be distributed. It also allows me or any other parent to take their child to school. The car does a lot of things.

If you think people should not take the car to school, then maybe you should not take a car anywhere.

Shopping: Catch the bus, tram or whatever. Yes you will have to lug a lod of shopping around, but at least you will be helping to save the environment and congestion.

Work: Dont drive to work, walk, even if it is 10 miles away, just start your journey early and theres no excuse.

etc etc etc.

There is never a good reason to drive a car unless it is an emergency. (And even then, theres a way around it)

Originally posted by Cyclone

Nor does eating meat cause serious environmental harm (although it may actually cause some, i've not checked).



Just for the record meat is much more energy/land intensive than arable produce.

Originally posted by Colorado
Ok then, so you are now suggesting I leave my child 'home alone' whilst I go off and catch a bus, AT LEAST AN HOUR before he would have to leave the house for school?????

If only life were as simple as some people seem to think it is.....

Yep, my parents used to do that with my sister and I. It seems it is so simple - we had a childminder.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Yes is is true that the car enables the workforce to be distributed. It also allows me or any other parent to take their child to school. The car does a lot of things.

If you think people should not take the car to school, then maybe you should not take a car anywhere.

Shopping: Catch the bus, tram or whatever. Yes you will have to lug a lod of shopping around, but at least you will be helping to save the environment and congestion.

Work: Dont drive to work, walk, even if it is 10 miles away, just start your journey early and theres no excuse.

etc etc etc.

There is never a good reason to drive a car unless it is an emergency. (And even then, theres a way around it)

You can't carry a fortnights shopping on the bus or tram no matter how much you'd like too.
Work is 200 miles away, i'd have to set off several weeks before I needed to be here, clearly that won't work.

How far do your children live from school and what advantages do you or they get by being driven in?

Originally posted by spyro2000
Yes is is true that the car enables the workforce to be distributed. It also allows me or any other parent to take their child to school. The car does a lot of things.

If you think people should not take the car to school, then maybe you should not take a car anywhere.

Shopping: Catch the bus, tram or whatever. Yes you will have to lug a lod of shopping around, but at least you will be helping to save the environment and congestion.

Work: Dont drive to work, walk, even if it is 10 miles away, just start your journey early and theres no excuse.

etc etc etc.

There is never a good reason to drive a car unless it is an emergency. (And even then, theres a way around it)


These threads always end up with the pro car people getting personally offended by the suggestion that we should use our cars less. It is a responsibility on all of our shoulders to reduce car use - be it for environmental or congestion reasons. The population is constantly increasing, the number of cars is constantly increasing. Is it really going to be possible to just keep on building more roads? Eventually, the freedom that you want to enjoy will become so constrictive that no one will be able to get anywhere.

Just the other week I tried to drive out of hillsborough, where I live, to commence a long journey. Due to all the people who thought it'd be a great idea to pop down to the shops in the car, it took me about half hour to get out. You're looking at about half a mile. That is not freedom. average speed 1 mile per hour. Am I right or wrong: walking would be quicker?

Originally posted by Colorado
Ok then, so you are now suggesting I leave my child 'home alone' whilst I go off and catch a bus, AT LEAST AN HOUR before he would have to leave the house for school?????

If only life were as simple as some people seem to think it is.....

So what is it you actually do? Drive them to school an hour early?

No you can not carry a fortnights shopping on a bus or tram, thats why you should do your shopping weekly, therefore saving the environment and not needing to use your car.

If you work 200 miles away then what is wrong with using the train to get to work.

As regards to me taking my child to school, I dont have a child that is school age yet so I dont take my child to school, Im just making the point that if my child was of school age that I would not feel bad about taking him to school in the car.

All im saying is that yes I understand that it is not necessary to drive kids to school, but nobody on this thread can tell me any other journey that is necessary to be taken by car. Not a single one of you can do it. prove me wrong if you can, but I know it wont happen.

Originally posted by spyro2000
No you can not carry a fortnights shopping on a bus or tram, thats why you should do your shopping weekly, therefore saving the environment and not needing to use your car.

If you work 200 miles away then what is wrong with using the train to get to work.

As regards to me taking my child to school, I dont have a child that is school age yet so I dont take my child to school, Im just making the point that if my child was of school age that I would not feel bad about taking him to school in the car.

All im saying is that yes I understand that it is not necessary to drive kids to school, but nobody on this thread can tell me any other journey that is necessary to be taken by car. Not a single one of you can do it. prove me wrong if you can, but I know it wont happen.

there is no such thing as required, so obviously we can't prove it.

What there is is a cost benefit balance for any given journey.
You're right, I could get the train. It would double the length of my journey, mean that I had to pay for taxi's too and from the hotel at a cost of around £200 in the week and generate more pollution (as trains aren't that clean).
Taking the children to school, instead of telling them to walk has no advantages and several disadvantages, not the least being the lack of exercise.

If scrummies increase the number of vehicles on the road by just 20%, how is it that they manage to make everyones journey twice as long?!? :suspect: :huh: :confused: :huh: :suspect:

Advantages of taking your child to school:


* You guarantee that they get there
* You guarantee that they get there safely
* You guarantee that they get there on time
* You guarantee that they do not get into any trouble on the way
* You get to spend that extra valuable time with them even if it just an extra half hour
* Both them and you do not have to wake up so early as you would if they had to walk to school
* This means they will always get to have a healthy breakfast because there is more time and less rushing around and more sleep at night.

etc etc etc :thumbsup:

Ok, reproduced post:

Unnecessary journeys number 1-5:

1. A person who lives in hillsborough drives to centertainment - tram is the easy option

2. A woman drives to meadowhall to buy a new bra - tram again.

3. Driving to the gym (surely the whole point here is to get exercise).

4. Driving from sheffield to derby (I commute this everyday - it actually takes longer driving)

5. A person in hunters bar drives to the peaks - there's a good bus service out there. You could then walk to another location and get the bus back - no need for circular routes.

The point being that there are people who have to use their cars (the unfirm, people who live in remote locations) but there are many that could reduce their car usage. It is a social responsibility - to not selfishly squander our finite resources (I include road space as a finite resource).

I hate cars, smelly, dangerous, get in the way and why sit inside when you can smell fresh air and be healthy.

Walking is much more productive for yourself and the environment.

Before you ask I dont drive and dont want to either. Got born with legs to walk with

RE: TimmyR's post:


While I am of the opinion that we should be able to drive wherever we want. I do understand the logic behind reducing the number of people taking the car on school runs, BUT if you want to reduce the school run journeys then I feel that other areas need to be reduced aswell, like the areas in TimmyR's post as above. Its not one rule for school run drivers and another rule for others.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Advantages of taking your child to school:


* You guarantee that they get there

Might have a point, although it depends on why you think they might not... trust issues?


* You guarantee that they get there safely

not really, just means you'll both be together when you're hit by a truck

* You guarantee that they get there on time

maybe they need to learn some time management skills, or will you hold their hand for their entire life?

* You guarantee that they do not get into any trouble on the way
trust issues again.

* You get to spend that extra valuable time with them even if it just an extra half hour

half hour, it's too far to walk then. More like 10 mins of you telling them sit still and shut up you have to think about everything else you need to do in the day

* Both them and you do not have to wake up so early as you would if they had to walk to school

You have to get up for work anyway, and they should be up otherwise they won't want to go to bed when you tell them too.

* This means they will always get to have a healthy breakfast because there is more time and less rushing around and more sleep at night.

Get up at a reasonable time, schools don't start until 8:30 or 9:00, breakfast only takes 30 mins.
I remember my first day at comprehensive. We were there about 1:30 early (as a group) because we were so worried about being late.

etc etc etc :thumbsup: [/B]

So whilst you can invent reasons for it, most of them are fairly weak and the alternatives actually useful lessons for life.

Originally posted by TimmyR
Ok, reproduced post:

Unnecessary journeys number 1-5:

1. A person drives who lives in hillsborough gets the tram to centertainment - tram is the easy option

2. A woman drives to meadowhall to buy a new bra - tram again.

3. Driving to the gym (surely the whole point here is to get exercise).

4. Driving from sheffield to derby (I commute this everyday - it actually takes longer driving)

5. A person in hunters bar drives to the peaks - there's a good bus service out there. You could then walk to another location and get the bus back - no need for circular routes.

The point being that there are people who have to use their cars (the unfirm, people who live in remote locations) but there are many that could reduce their car usage. It is a social responsibility - to not selfishly squander our finite resources (I include road space as a finite resource).

I only ever get the tram to the centertainment if I plan to have a drink.
It takes at least twice as long and costs me more than driving. Plus it limits what I can do on the return, ie detour and pick something up, visit someone, stop in at b&q etc...

Same for meadowhall, except the time difference is even greater, plus I might have lots of shopping to bring back (not that I buy bra's very often mind).

Don't "they" (scientists) think that all the extra traffic is actually contributing to the rise in childhood asthma ?

im surprised how quiet the roads are today.
obviously fuel issues make people car share or walk their kids to school.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Work is 200 miles away, i'd have to set off several weeks before I needed to be here, clearly that won't work.

Isn't the answer to that problem staring you in the face?

We are lucky in that our school is within walking distance to home, and when he go's up to the secondry school in sept next year he will be on shank's pony too unless he ends up at one of the further away ones, then I understand they provide a schoolbus.
When I was at school (many years ago) my dad never gave me a lift once, and I had to set off at 7.30 to get there, but the walk from wisewood to penistone road to catch the bus everyday really kept me fit and healthy, and I will be retuning the favour with my own children and giving them the gift of health and fitness..

dont forget when the kids play truant or get sent home early(legitimately) they'll walk then i can assure you.(if u can't get out of work to collect them that is).

Originally posted by willman
im surprised how quiet the roads are today.
obviously fuel issues make people car share or walk their kids to school.

I noticed that, too! It's normally gridlock where I get the bus but it was mildly less gridlocked this morning, yet the bus was strangely over full. Could it have been that some people decided to save petrol, slum it and use the bus? :suspect:

Originally posted by Cyclone
So what is it you actually do? Drive them to school an hour early?

It doesn't take much working out really (some details are in my previous post). But as car v bus situation as I have said - without the car I could not work and it is not up to anyone else to tell me otherwise as they do not know. They can only summise, and short of giving people my full itinery (of which I am not about to do) people should accept what is being said. I thought that I was joining a debate to shed some light on the situation from another point of view, as the thread seemed to generalise that everyone who dropped their child off at school was doing it out of lazieness, I just tried to explain that this is not always the case.

But unfortuantely there will always be the people who insist on telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing, and no matter how much you try to justify your reasons they will tell you that YOU are wrong and THEY are right.

Originally posted by Colorado
..But unfortuantely there will always be the people who insist on telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing, and no matter how much you try to justify your reasons they will tell you that YOU are wrong and THEY are right.

You've hit the nail on the head there Colorado :clap:

Originally posted by Tony
Isn't the answer to that problem staring you in the face?

you should take more notice, my work is project based.
I've been here for 5 weeks, i've got another 1. I'm obviously not planning to move house every 6 weeks.

Originally posted by Colorado
It doesn't take much working out really (some details are in my previous post). But as car v bus situation as I have said - without the car I could not work and it is not up to anyone else to tell me otherwise as they do not know. They can only summise, and short of giving people my full itinery (of which I am not about to do) people should accept what is being said. I thought that I was joining a debate to shed some light on the situation from another point of view, as the thread seemed to generalise that everyone who dropped their child off at school was doing it out of lazieness, I just tried to explain that this is not always the case.

But unfortuantely there will always be the people who insist on telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing, and no matter how much you try to justify your reasons they will tell you that YOU are wrong and THEY are right.

I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't use a car to go to work.

Someone slipped in the bus comment (I hadn't actually taken note of it). I'm not clear on why it is your children can't walk to school though?

Originally posted by Mathom
I noticed that, too! It's normally gridlock where I get the bus but it was mildly less gridlocked this morning, yet the bus was strangely over full. Could it have been that some people decided to save petrol, slum it and use the bus? :suspect:

Just been up the top end of Eccy road (near somerfield) and its business as usual.

i dont think anyone is really trying to tell anyone how to live however i do think the post would have validity if everyone wasn't so defensive.
i still stick by my earlier comments which in no way attack peoples rights to drive anywhere.

" being a conscientious parent is different to being bone idle.
i think the majority of complaints are geared to "HOMEMAKERS" that could really walk to school and free up a bit of road.
there is more risk of the children being obese & having health problems than
a)perverts b) road accidents."


__________________________

Originally posted by willman
i dont think anyone is really trying to tell anyone how to live however i do think the post would have validity if everyone wasn't so defensive.
i still stick by my earlier comments which in no way attack peoples rights to drive anywhere.

" being a conscientious parent is different to being bone idle.
i think the majority of complaints are geared to "HOMEMAKERS" that could really walk to school and free up a bit of road.
there is more risk of the children being obese & having health problems than
a)perverts b) road accidents."


Exactly right. I have been involved with several discussions along these lines (including my deliberately inflammatory post on 4x4's which backfired for this very reason) and it seems that as soon as you suggest that there are alternatives to driving, which I believe are alternatives we need to adopt, someone takes personal offense.

Originally posted by Cyclone
you should take more notice, my work is project based.
I've been here for 5 weeks, i've got another 1. I'm obviously not planning to move house every 6 weeks.

I work the other way round, I only go for jobs that I can get to via public transport. If I had to drive to get a certain job I wouldn't apply for it.

Originally posted by Cyclone
I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't use a car to go to work.

Someone slipped in the bus comment (I hadn't actually taken note of it). I'm not clear on why it is your children can't walk to school though?

My child could walk to school, but as I have said earlier I feel happier taking him, knowing that he is there on the premises, safely. He also prefers me to take him as he doesn't have any friends that live close-by that he could walk with, and has to walk down a few paths with trees either side.

Some people also forget that in places like this it's not just 'pervs' etc that hang around, but dogs. He has before encountered two powerful dogs on one of the path's, that have obviously been sent out by their irresponsible owners, for their walk, alone.

So when I take him, I am on my way to work, in my car.

Dogs, Trees ????

I stand by my generation of wimps statement.

Originally posted by Colorado
My child could walk to school, but as I have said earlier I feel happier taking him, knowing that he is there on the premises, safely. He also prefers me to take him as he doesn't have any friends that live close-by that he could walk with, and has to walk down a few paths with trees either side.

Some people also forget that in places like this it's not just 'pervs' etc that hang around, but dogs. He has before encountered two powerful dogs on one of the path's, that have obviously been sent out by their irresponsible owners, for their walk, alone.

So when I take him, I am on my way to work, in my car.

maybe he has no friends on the walk to school because he doesn't do it. Maybe not, obviously i dno't know.

Basically though you put your needs as more important than the effect your actions have on everyone else.
Which we all do sometimes, but at the end of the day, we are all someone else, and the effects will have to be put up with.

Originally posted by nick2
I work the other way round, I only go for jobs that I can get to via public transport. If I had to drive to get a certain job I wouldn't apply for it.

If I did that then i guess i wouldn't be working in my chosen field nor getting paid the salary I am.
I am constantly keeping an eye out for a similar job close to home, but Sheffield doesn't really seem to have embraced the IT revolution (or at least there aren't many IT companies around).

I have tried in vain to explain some reasons why 'the school run' happens.

Unfortunately we all do things that other people do not like and sometimes have to suffer the consequences for it, and taking my child to school seems to upset some people.

Tough.

I love my child unconditionally, and if I want to take him to school for my piece of mind, so that when I get to work I can concentrate on my job knowing he is there safe, and while-ever he want's me to take him to school, then I will. He matters more to me than anyone complaining on here about what I do, and no-one will convince me to change.

I will change what I do when it suits me and him.

:wave:

Originally posted by Colorado
I have tried in vain to explain some reasons why 'the school run' happens.

Unfortunately we all do things that other people do not like and sometimes have to suffer the consequences for it, and taking my child to school seems to upset some people.

Tough.

I love my child unconditionally, and if I want to take him to school for my piece of mind, so that when I get to work I can concentrate on my job knowing he is there safe, and while-ever he want's me to take him to school, then I will. He matters more to me than anyone complaining on here about what I do, and no-one will convince me to change.

I will change what I do when it suits me and him.

:wave:

If there was a cheap or free school bus service that you could put your child on would you?

Originally posted by Colorado
I have tried in vain to explain some reasons why 'the school run' happens.

Unfortunately we all do things that other people do not like and sometimes have to suffer the consequences for it, and taking my child to school seems to upset some people.

Tough.

I love my child unconditionally, and if I want to take him to school for my piece of mind, so that when I get to work I can concentrate on my job knowing he is there safe, and while-ever he want's me to take him to school, then I will. He matters more to me than anyone complaining on here about what I do, and no-one will convince me to change.

I will change what I do when it suits me and him.

:wave:

good for you, personally I love global warming and acid rain, I hope your son likes it too, because he'll have to put up with it for longer than you do.
Hope he doesn't get a shock when he finally stops being so sheltered from life. Sometimes protecting them from everything isn't actually in their best intrests you know.

Originally posted by serapis
Why does it have to be by alternative means? Because you say so?



No. Because if someone makes a journey by car that they could just as easily walk or get the bus then it is a waste of energy and a cause of a huge amount of pollution. It's no use saying that in 20 years time we will all be driving non-polluting cars. This is now, and the pollution is having an effect on our environment and our health NOW. I can see the moral argument against excessive use of cars - unfortunately most people cannot - even with child asthma rates going through the roof and weather conditions becoming more extreme in front of our eyes.

Originally posted by Colorado
Ok then, so you are now suggesting I leave my child 'home alone' whilst I go off and catch a bus, AT LEAST AN HOUR before he would have to leave the house for school?????

If only life were as simple as some people seem to think it is.....

I am not getting at you personally – but this is just the kind of argument used by all parents who take their children to school by car – and I refuse to believe that every single parent who insists their child must be driven to school actually have no alternative (and this can apply to any journey - not just the school run). It may be that you live in the middle of nowehere, where there are few buses and your child travels some way to school. But many parents drive their kids to school and themselves to work when they CAN use the bus – but like many of my work colleagues they will justify not doing this by over-exaggerating how long it will take them to get to work on the bus.

I was having a conversation with someone at work about this today and she reckoned she could drive to work in 15 minutes, but a bus would take an hour and a half! (Which I refuse to believe is possible – we’re in the centre of town, and she lives in Sheffield – nowhere in Sheffield does it take 90 minutes on the bus to get into town!) She also justified it on the basis of not knowing where her nearest bus stop is! She then tried to justify it on the basis of cost, saying it was cheaper to run a car. We worked out she spends £100 a month on her car (although this is without taking into consideration what she spends on the re-payments each month, or what she would have spent up front if she had bought this way), compared to my £43 a month for a bus ticket that covers the whole of South Yorkshire. When she realised all her justifications were just not plausible she just went back to “well it saves time and is more convenient – it doesn’t matter about the pollution”. Another colleague then commented that her car doesn’t pollute because it has an emissions test at it’s MOT! If this is a snapshot of the general knowledge that most people have on car pollution then it’s no wonder people are so unconcerned about it.

the 15 mins was probably an exaggeration, but it used to take >1hr to get from N Anston/Dinnington into town, when the car journey is 20 mins.
And if you then have to get a 2nd bus to reach your destination then it could take longer.

For example. My house in walkley to my parents in N Anston, by car, 20 mins in a rush, 25 - 30 normally.

By public transport
Walk to tram stop - 5 mins
Wait for tram - 5 mins (at least, try to get it bang on and you end up waiting for the next one).

Tram to bus station - 20 mins

Wait for bus (lets say 30 mins, might be 1hr, might be 1 min).

Bus - N Anston - 1 hr.

Walk to parents - 5 mins

Total 2:05 mins. +/- upto about 40 mins.

So whichever way you look at that journey, the public transport makes it a days outing. A car makes it something you can do within an hour (return).

Originally posted by Cyclone
the 15 mins was probably an exaggeration, but it used to take >1hr to get from N Anston/Dinnington into town, when the car journey is 20 mins.
And if you then have to get a 2nd bus to reach your destination then it could take longer.

For example. My house in walkley to my parents in N Anston, by car, 20 mins in a rush, 25 - 30 normally.

By public transport
Walk to tram stop - 5 mins
Wait for tram - 5 mins (at least, try to get it bang on and you end up waiting for the next one).

Tram to bus station - 20 mins

Wait for bus (lets say 30 mins, might be 1hr, might be 1 min).

Bus - N Anston - 1 hr.

Walk to parents - 5 mins

Total 2:05 mins. +/- upto about 40 mins.

So whichever way you look at that journey, the public transport makes it a days outing. A car makes it something you can do within an hour (return).

I'm not sure I'd call north anston, sheffield. Takes ages to drive to.

Originally posted by banesmabes
When she realised all her justifications were just not plausible she just went back to “well it saves time and is more convenient – it doesn’t matter about the pollution”. Another colleague then commented that her car doesn’t pollute because it has an emissions test at it’s MOT! If this is a snapshot of the general knowledge that most people have on car pollution then it’s no wonder people are so unconcerned about it.

In a previous thread I remember someone saying this:

" the emissions [from my car] are carbon neutral so is less polluting than a smart car, but I still have to pay more road tax than it. "

Unless of course it was H2 or solar powered or 50 trees were planted on the roof this is somewhat unlikely! Its hard to make a point when people come out with crap like that...

I'm not entirely sure on this one. If they live really far away, i can understand. But alot of the time its just laziness, which needs to be stopped. Kids need execrise each day, and walking to school is a good way to get it. Kids getting drove to school and not walking + Eating too much can cause them obese :( Which (So I've heard) is a big problem. They need to burn the calories off everyday. I mean, sure they have P.e, But only twice a week. I'm only expressing my opinion. after all, I'm only 12, what do i know. But i walk to school and back, each day. On some occasions, yes, my dad drives me. But thats a rare and occassion, as walking is good exercise. I think all children should start to get into the habit. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Cyclone
Hope he doesn't get a shock when he finally stops being so sheltered from life. Sometimes protecting them from everything isn't actually in their best intrests you know.

So not only do you want to tell everyone how and when they can use their own car, but you are telling people how to raise their children too!

Where are we, Nazi Germany all of a sudden!

I just think they need the exercise. Not really the traffic. I wouldn't know, I'm too young to drive :hihi:

Originally posted by serapis
So not only do you want to tell everyone how and when they can use their own car, but you are telling people how to raise their children too!

Where are we, Nazi Germany all of a sudden!

yeah, i'm sure they were big on congestion and pollution.

It was one of the points I made earlier about children growing up by gradually having increasing freedom and responsability.

Originally posted by TimmyR
In a previous thread I remember someone saying this:

" the emissions [from my car] are carbon neutral so is less polluting than a smart car, but I still have to pay more road tax than it. "

Unless of course it was H2 or solar powered or 50 trees were planted on the roof this is somewhat unlikely! Its hard to make a point when people come out with crap like that...

Exactly - especially when yet another disclaimer to the pollution her car causes my colleague said "but my one car doesn't make a difference". I tried to point out that pretty much all car drivers think that, so effectively each individual car DOES make a difference - she wouldn't have it though. She said the fact that she pays lower tax because of the size of her car proves that the pollution from it isn't a problem.

I think reading some of the comments on here that its clear that when you challenge a parent over something they do for their child, with all the best intentions (e.g. to keep them safe, make them happy etc), then this is ultimately all that matters to them. This neither a bad nor a good thing, but its a natural thing, so I have to say again that making people's kids walk or bus it to school is solving the problem with a big stick; opening up more options such as free bus travel is a better idea.

nice to see schools are back. that is why my bus journey took 10 minutes longer. roll on teh students and gridlock:loopy:

Well here we go again then,stuck in traffic due to the school run and selfish parking near the school gates.
I doubt if a child was killed due to their selfish parking they would lose too much sleep over it,some are so selfish its untrue.

Originally posted by royjames
Well here we go again then,stuck in traffic due to the school run and selfish parking near the school gates.
I doubt if a child was killed due to their selfish parking they would lose too much sleep over it,some are so selfish its untrue.

Surely all parent's can and would have concern for other children ! what a short sighted view!. I've taken my children to school over many years, and taken great pride in their successes. I value my contribution to their success, and feel that my interest and involvement has enabled them to incorporate this into the balanced and benefical society they will integrate into in the future.

In these immensely congested times when thugs run around rampant in the streets and people hang around outside school gates distributing leaflets, children have to go to school through all of this. Is it not appropriate to ensure the safety of a child by taking them to school in the safest possible transport means possible. So heres the toughy! my niece is just about to start school should I go for the X5, the Range Rover Sport or a Hummer for the wife to use occasionally.

Originally posted by bulldog D
Surely all parent's can and would have concern for other children ! what a short sighted view!. I've taken my children to school over many years, and taken great pride in their successes. I value my contribution to their success, and feel that my interest and involvement has enabled them to incorporate this into the balanced and benefical society they will integrate into in the future.

Do you believe that driving your child to school was demonstrating those things? Or that you couldn't take pride in their accomplishments and let them walk?

You must live in a different part of the world, I've not noticed any thugs running rampant, nor have I seen any leaflet distributers outside the schools as I pass them (they're probably just stuck in traffic or have been crushed by some under utilised school mums truck).

Can we actually prove whether driving or walking is safer, I doubt it can be proven either way because the statistics simply aren't available for pedestrians.
Anecdotaly I can say that in 7 years of walking to comprehensive (2 miles) I only knew of 1 accident where someone walking home was hit, and that was actually as they crossed the road having got off the bus (so technically they weren't walking the whole distance).
And there must have been a thousand children walking too and from that school everyday, which is 3/4 of a million pedestrian miles every year.

Originally posted by bulldog D
[. So heres the toughy! my niece is just about to start school should I go for the X5, the Range Rover Sport or a Hummer for the wife to use occasionally. [/B]

Ever thought of using your legs or are you another of those selfish people .
You should GO FOR walking to school.

Originally posted by royjames
Ever thought of using your legs or are you another of those selfish people .
You should GO FOR walking to school.

Do you walk EVERYWHERE Roy?

I walk quite a bit actually,and when the kids were off to school I walked them to it, must seem old fashioned but there you go.

Yes but do you walk everywhere?

Everywhere in the Uk is in walking distance, but we 'choose' to use transportation. Id much prefer to drive a short journey to school then to walk.

I get my exercise by playing sports and always have done from my school days.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Yes but do you walk everywhere?

Everywhere in the Uk is in walking distance, but we 'choose' to use transportation. Id much prefer to drive a short journey to school then to walk.

I get my exercise by playing sports and always have done from my school days.

when you have to resort to claiming that "everywhere in the uk is within walking distance" you've lost the argument.

Originally posted by Cyclone
when you have to resort to claiming that "everywhere in the uk is within walking distance" you've lost the argument.

Not at all.

Ok then, tell me what is the minimum distance to which you should NOT take transport?

p.s Its not an argument, its a debate ;)

I dont think this is a case of "you should not do this" its more a case of making people aware of the damage that driving does to the environment etc and make them think twice before they take their car.

Originally posted by spyro2000
Not at all.

Ok then, tell me what is the minimum distance to which you should NOT take transport?

p.s Its not an argument, its a debate ;)

semantics, in a debate you argue various points or argue for a particular position.

I think i tried to say earlier that the 'minimum distance' will depend on the nature of the journey and other factors such as time pressure.

Since school children generally don't have more than a small rucksack to carry and aren't generally (or shouldn't be) in any sort of rush, a couple of miles is quite reasonable to expect them to walk.
That's 30 to 40 mins walk. Most adults have at least a 30 to 40 min commute to work by whatever means, so the time taken up by walking doesn't seem unduly excessive.
It also means that for they don't have to leave the house very early, as most schools start between 8:30 and 9:00, leaving at 7:50 sounds like a luxurious lie in to me. Assume 50 mins to get ready and have breakfast, they can get up at 7:00.

If however you were making a journey and bringing back a lot of something (say a trip to the supermarket or to b n q) then it might be impractical to do it on foot even if it's 100 m down the road.
Or if you are making a trip out to somewhere for a specific time (say a booked squash court) and have only 20 mins between arriving home and the booking then a walk of more than 1/2 mile would make you late.

I've written an essay there to try to explain the sort of criteria i'd apply, but basically within 2 miles there are few good reasons to give children a lift to school.

It may no seem it, but I do actually see where you are coming from Cyclone. Im not sayinhg I agree, but I do see your point.


Ok, so lets take this 30-40 minute walk example.... Should this be applie to absolutely anything? eg going to a relatives house that is half an hour walk away, going to the pictures etc? Or is it just the school run that you think should be stopped?

Originally posted by spyro2000
It may no seem it, but I do actually see where you are coming from Cyclone. Im not sayinhg I agree, but I do see your point.


Ok, so lets take this 30-40 minute walk example.... Should this be applie to absolutely anything? eg going to a relatives house that is half an hour walk away, going to the pictures etc? Or is it just the school run that you think should be stopped?

Well, I think you'd have to apply different criteria to different journeys. And it certainly can't be legislated for, so people would always be free to ignore it.
It would just be nice if they considered it and took into account the impact of their behaviour.

Visiting a relatives house that is 30 - 40 mins walk away, when you're probably only going to stay for 1 hr might make the opportunity cost too high. Plus you are unlikely to make that visit at rush hour simply because you don't want to be stuck in traffic.
I suppose I forgot to say to take into account the time of the journey, that should have been a criteria for all journeys really, although the effect might be making you rethink driving to the supermarket at 17:15 or 8:45.

If you were planning to stay all day though, then walking to your relatives might be reasonable.
In my last summer holiday (after graduation, before work) I cycled to my grans several times, >10 miles. Just because it was nice to cycle and be outdoors and my grans was a convenient destination. I could have driven, but had no time pressure, so no need to rush.
Nowadays I drive (although it's 15 miles now), and I stay for 1 hr. I have far too many things to do and limited time to indulge in cycling that far and back.

Point taken. I do however think that we will have to agree to disagree. (especially as I have just seen the number of typos I made in my last post :blush: )

Originally posted by spyro2000
Point taken. I do however think that we will have to agree to disagree. (especially as I have just seen the number of typos I made in my last post :blush: )

Cool, it's nice to know that some people can actually understand a point, sometimes I wonder if I'm just not making sense.

For the record, I can also understand where you're coming from, and wouldn't want to see any legislative action in order to change things, that's contrary to the principles of a free society.

What's needed is either more subtle measures, good alternatives that genuinely tempt people or simple governmental bribery.

by allowing kids to walk to school I believe that they:

build trust with their child.

teach punctuality

teach independence

improve fitness.

build interation skills with other kids

Originally posted by robbie
by allowing kids to walk to school I believe that they:

build trust with their child.

teach punctuality

teach independence

improve fitness.

build interation skills with other kids

Yes all of what you have said is true, but at the same time, I believe you can do all that by other methods, not just making your kids walk to school.

Being dropped to school didnt do me any harm, I was dropped to school nearly every single day of my school life.

we walk to school every day, and there is one family who drives every day from five door sup the road. it is a five /ten minute walk. and we often pass the family sat in traffic. and I usually arrive back around the same time as her...its not like she's got anywhere to go, just home.


I agree it is choice and if your on your way to work or if you have somewhere else to go it's ok. but some people are just damn lazy!

if i remember right, i used to walk on my own to school and back right from day one....aged four! :)

Originally posted by Cyclone

Since school children generally don't have more than a small rucksack to carry and aren't generally (or shouldn't be) in any sort of rush, a couple of miles is quite reasonable to expect them to walk.
That's 30 to 40 mins walk.

I have to pick you up on that one - maybe little kids don't have more than a small bag to carry, but as they get older the amount of stuff they have to cart about with them also increases. There have been reports in the last few years about teenagers developing serious back injuries as they have to carry such heavy bags, and remember they are still growing so this is not the same as an adult having a back injury.

The other thing is how long it takes a kid to walk a mile - probably around 30 minutes at least (it takes an adult 20-30 minutes on the flat if they aren't power-walking?). Possibly longer if they go via the sweet shop. Once or twice I'd have to walk home from school which was five miles, and it used to take me two hours.

I still hold with free school buses for all - that suits both sides of the debate.

Yup, me too. In fact I think the only time I had a lift was when I was in plaster from toe to hip for 12 weeks.

From memory, when I went back to school I had maybe 4/5 lifts from my dad, then I hobbled the 2 miles on crutches because it was easier and less embarrassing than his Lada.

Kids today ... ppfff!

I have just been having a read throguh some of the comments on this thread. What school age are people basing their comments on as I think it differs depending on the age of the child.

e.g. There no way at all that I would let a 5 or 6 year old walk to school on their own no natter how close it was. Teenagers are a different matter.

i think primary should walk if it is feasible with company, parents guardian etc.
secondary school can please themseles & usually do anyway.
we walked our daughter until she was finishing junior school -.it was convenient for us to do so & quicker.

Originally posted by spyro2000
I have just been having a read throguh some of the comments on this thread. What school age are people basing their comments on as I think it differs depending on the age of the child.

e.g. There no way at all that I would let a 5 or 6 year old walk to school on their own no natter how close it was. Teenagers are a different matter.

If it's primary school they certainly won't be 2 miles away (unless their parents chose to send them to a different one).

I can't remember for sure, but i'm sure I was walking on my own (or with my younger siblings) by the time I got out of the 1st year infants. Of course it was only about 150m and there would be generally about several hundred other kids, some with parents all converging on the school, so hardly like walking alone.

Most adults walk at about 3.5 - 4 mph, children aged 12 and up (comprehensive age) are probably walking at least 3, so if it takes them 30 mins to cover 1 mile then they are dawdling (how do you spell that)?
If in a rush I used to cover 1.5 miles in about 20 - 25 mins, that was slightly older though, 5th year and into the sixth form when I had free periods.

Can't say that carrying a bag ever did me injury, although admittedly on some days it could seem to way a lot, books, folders and PE kit all together.

Anyway, the school run does give the small one's some excercise. Where else would they learn to climb up a stepladder (in order to get into the obligatory 4x4). I can solve the congestion troubles outside schools, just put up 6ft height restictors on the road past the entrance, it would cut problems in half at one fell swoop.

Another way to stop the selfish sods would be to have no parking anywhere near the school at term times,have parking wardens on site to make sure they get the message.
Hand out instant fines of £100 to anyone who parks in the no parking zone. Zero tolerance .

Originally posted by royjames
Another way to stop the selfish sods would be to have no parking anywhere near the school at term times,have parking wardens on site to make sure they get the message.
Hand out instant fines of £100 to anyone who parks in the no parking zone. Zero tolerance .

there are often residents nearby though...

Originally posted by Cyclone
there are often residents nearby though...


True so maybe some kind of parking permit could be used,this will help the local residents and stop the selfish sods.:thumbsup:

That would be a good idea.

Maybe some parents who do have spare time (I know not all parents do) could make a walking bus? When I was in primary school we used to get a certificate if we joined the walking bus and it's fun for the children

our school spoke about a walking bus last year ....still no sign

but I do think that they are a good idea

Originally posted by littleboo
our school spoke about a walking bus last year ....still no sign

but I do think that they are a good idea

why not organise it and start it yourself?

it has to be accompanied by a certain amount of teachers/parents

Originally posted by spyro2000
I have just been having a read throguh some of the comments on this thread. What school age are people basing their comments on as I think it differs depending on the age of the child.

e.g. There no way at all that I would let a 5 or 6 year old walk to school on their own no natter how close it was. Teenagers are a different matter.

Yeah not by themselves, but I never ever got a lift to school, other than if my dad happened to be going to work late, the school was directly on his way. Even then I didn't usually bother because I liked meeting up with me mates.

As a yound kid I used to get walked by my mother or by a lady who offered to walk big gangs of us along the road. I'm sure there's an umemployed housewife somewhere who'd love to earn a few quid walking some kids along the road. This walking bus idea sounds like a plan.

People always say, "yeah that sounds like a great idea", well I say get out there and organise it!

People always say, "yeah that sounds like a great idea", well I say get out there and organise it!

I did organise the initial pack to be sent to school and the meetings afterward but as someone says you have to have teachers and parents....all have to be policed checked and this is paid out of the own parents pocket or school funds if possible.... so hit a bit of a deadend as paerents don't want to pay and schools are under funded

Originally posted by littleboo
I did organise the initial pack to be sent to school and the meetings afterward but as someone says you have to have teachers and parents....all have to be policed checked and this is paid out of the own parents pocket or school funds if possible.... so hit a bit of a deadend as paerents don't want to pay and schools are under funded

CBT checks are free for volunteers, all the teachers are already checked, so all it will cost is a 2nd class stamp for every volunteer parent.

I think I understand the general concept of the walking bus, but could you explain the details?
Who is it that makes up these rules about who must be involved and that CBT checks are required?

Originally posted by spyro2000
Yes all of what you have said is true, but at the same time, I believe you can do all that by other methods, not just making your kids walk to school.

Being dropped to school didnt do me any harm, I was dropped to school nearly every single day of my school life.

But getting your kids to walk to school is a very easy and free way of doing it. Not all parents encourage their kids to get involved in physical activities outside of school time, and not all parents can afford extra activities. If it's something as easy as letting your kid walk to school, then it seems ridiculous not to let them - even if they do do other activities to keep them fit.

Originally posted by Mathom
I have to pick you up on that one - maybe little kids don't have more than a small bag to carry, but as they get older the amount of stuff they have to cart about with them also increases. There have been reports in the last few years about teenagers developing serious back injuries as they have to carry such heavy bags, and remember they are still growing so this is not the same as an adult having a back injury.

The other thing is how long it takes a kid to walk a mile - probably around 30 minutes at least (it takes an adult 20-30 minutes on the flat if they aren't power-walking?). Possibly longer if they go via the sweet shop. Once or twice I'd have to walk home from school which was five miles, and it used to take me two hours.

I still hold with free school buses for all - that suits both sides of the debate.

There is a real problem with the amount of stuff kids have to lug to school once they get older. I'm not sure what most schools are like, but I know my old school phased out the use of lockers back in the late eighties/early nineties. This meant you had nowhere at school to store heavy textbooks etc that you didn't need to take home with you. Do any schools provide this kind of facility for kids now?

I used to walk a mile to school and I can tell you it took me much less time than it does now! It used to take me just under 15 minutes, now it's more like 20 - 25 minutes.

Free school buses are great and should definately be brought in for kids who have further to travel. I'd be interested to see what the average distance for travelling to school is. I think a big part of the problem is kids being driven to school when it is within easy walking distance (say anything up to 1.5 miles).

Originally posted by spyro2000
e.g. There no way at all that I would let a 5 or 6 year old walk to school on their own no natter how close it was.

No matter how close? My primary school was literally over my garden wall. I didn't have to cross any roads and my mum could literally watch me to the end of the road, go to the back garden and see me come through the school gates (she would never allow me to climb over the wall for some reason!). Apart from the first week at school when I was 4 she never walked me to school. I believe she only watched me for the first few weeks. I know this is a luxury many don't have, but there's no need to walk a child to school when it is that close (unless your child has a habit of wandering off).

Originally posted by royjames
Another way to stop the selfish sods would be to have no parking anywhere near the school at term times,have parking wardens on site to make sure they get the message.
Hand out instant fines of £100 to anyone who parks in the no parking zone. Zero tolerance .

Parking around schools is a real problem for local residents as well. As I mentioned I lived very close to my primary school. Parking on my street (terraced, so no drive ways) wasn't really a problem when I was still a kid as generally people did walk to school. But we really saw the change towards the late nineties. There wasn't a parking space to be had on our street between the hours of 8 and 9:30, and again between 3 and 4pm. Often people who lived on our street had to park further away on other streets because the school runners were taking up all the street. So free permits for residents would be a good idea - anyone else would get a ticket.

Originally posted by royjames
True so maybe some kind of parking permit could be used,this will help the local residents and stop the selfish sods.:thumbsup:

oops - snap!

Originally posted by Cyclone
CBT checks are free for volunteers, all the teachers are already checked, so all it will cost is a 2nd class stamp for every volunteer parent.

I think I understand the general concept of the walking bus, but could you explain the details?
Who is it that makes up these rules about who must be involved and that CBT checks are required?

It actually wouldn't even cost the second class stamp! As you mentioned, CRB checks are free to volunteers, but the registered body sends the form off (individuals not registered with the CRB can't just apply for a police check - it has to go through a registered body - the Council in this case). All you would have to do is arrange to see someone at the school/local authority, who will provide you with a form to complete, you provide the relevant ID documents - they check them and take copies, they then pass the lot onto their registered countersignatory, who double checks the ID, ensures enough has been provided, completes and signs their part of the application form and then sends it off to the CRB for you.

I would have thought that being in a position of authority over children, and having the opportunity to supervise children alone you would need an Enhanced CRB check for this kind of initiative. This takes up to 4 weeks to come back, but is the most thorough police check there is - even if the police have investigated crimes you have been accused off but they have either not prosecuted or not successfully prosecuted, then it comes up on the enhanced check. They also check the child protection list for people who are banned from working with children.

It's paranoia that makes people to school in cars. They wrap their little darlings in cotton wool and don't let them grow up naturally, learning how to fend for themselves, so they are totally to blame when little Tristran (or whatsisname) rebels and goes completely off the rails.
Perhaps they think that their kids may get bullied by others. They should have thought about that before giving them such stupid names which THEY liked at the time, but not thinking that the poor little sod is going to be teased unmercifully by others 'cos of some strange effeminate name, which of course is just another ego trip for the parents, a bit like the choice of vehicle they use for the school run.
Why don't they go the whole hog and buy the ultimate safety machine, a TANK.

Originally posted by spyro2000
I have just been having a read throguh some of the comments on this thread. What school age are people basing their comments on as I think it differs depending on the age of the child.

e.g. There no way at all that I would let a 5 or 6 year old walk to school on their own no natter how close it was. Teenagers are a different matter.

secondary school or primary if you live very close to the school.

No of course you dont let 5 or 6 year olds walk to school alone! I'm pretty sure many 5 or 6 year olds wouldnt want to anyway they'd be terrifyed. I started walking with just my sister at 7 years and then I was on my own from age 8 or 9 if I remember rightly.

If I'm off or working a late shift I'll take him in the car. What really ****** me off when I do that is all the inconsiderate people who work 9-5 slowing me down.

Work shifts you selfish ********!!!

um...i guess someone has to do something 'bout it, right~:thumbsup:

Excellent news (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4262874.stm) I think!!! :clap:

This could indeed be one way to combat the problem of road congestion at school times,well worth trying out.
We need to do something to make our roads easier at certain times.:thumbsup:

Originally posted by royjames

We need to do something to make our roads easier at certain times.:thumbsup:

God yes - it took 25 minutes to travel from Heeley Green to Bramall Lane on the bus this morning because of all the cars clogging up the roads - I should have just got off and walked, it would have been quicker. It seems to be getting worse all the time :mad:

Right, I have only read the first 5 pages of this thread so sorry If I repeat anything that has already been said.

I live about 20 yards from the scholl gates, a few years back I was going to get into the car (2 cars, no drive) when a woman who I recognised (lives about 400 yards away) signalled that she wanted a word with me, she was carrying what looked like a clipboard and there had already been talk of making a car park (instead they sold the land for housing :( ) so I assumed it was a petition for this.

When she came accross she had the cheek to ask if I could build a drive to make it easier for them to park. I asked why she couldn't walk the kids to school as she only lived 400 yards away. Her answer was "I have 3 kids to sort out for school", to which I replied that my mother had 6 of us and coped without a car.



In regards to the "increased" risk of children being attacked, it was reported a few years back that there amount of children being attacked is the same as 50 years ago.

The difference these days is the media hype. For example lets say a child goes missing in Sheffield and is found murdered a week later. (Not that I would wish this to happen to anybody).

50 years ago: Day 1: A child missing story appears in The Star (inner pages). Day 5: "Fears Grow, Police following up "sightings" story, again just in the Locals. Day 7: Body found story appears on front page of Star. This is repeated in the nationals (probably not front page) a couple of days later. The local papers may follow up the story with the funeral etc. Both locals and nationals will run the story if someone is caught.

Today: All papers will run the story on a daily basis. From dissapearance to conviction. Each paper will try for there own angle usually with the "These Monsters are living in your Neighbourhoods" type stories.

As people now hear the stories of any such incident in the UK instead of just there local area, they will hear probably 20 times the cases. People then see this has there is 20 times the incidents...

Stop the school run and allow people to work flexi time so the roads are not rammed tight from 7am-9am / 4pm-7pm
Would make life such much easier :)

Or even better let people work from home

(hint hint if the boss i reading :D)

Originally posted by Saifa
Or even better let people work from home

(hint hint if the boss i reading :D)

I have that option now, but recently everytime I have decided to say at home, something has kicked off and I still needed to go to the damn office! :rolleyes: :gag: