Been to fill up this morning at my local Esso, to my astonishment Unleaded was only 77.9p a litre. I know there has been abit of fluctuation recently but it hasnt gone below 80p for at least a year and then the sudden drop!

Anyone know whats happened? Has there been an announcement from OPEC or somert :confused: Or is it just Esso starting a price war?

Mat

Over-supply

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4147419.stm

B

They reckon (I forget who they are, heard it on radio 2) that it'll be back up to 80p by Feb.

Originally posted by mat1978


Anyone know whats happened? Has there been an announcement from OPEC or somert :confused: Or is it just Esso starting a price war?

Mat

Asda cut their prices to 76.9 so everyone is matching them

:banana:

Originally posted by Scutts
Asda cut their prices to 76.9 so everyone is matching them

:banana:

Shame nobody's BEATING them though is it :D

The 3p drop is making a difference though, I get an extra half litre of fuel for my tenner and on a 1.1 car that makes a world of difference.

If only fuel prices were stable :(

Thanks for that chaps :thumbsup:

On a slightly differernt note, does anybody else find Supermarket petrol crap? I dont know why but there deffinately seems to be a reduction in the power of the engine when I use supermarket.

The reason for the cut in petrol is due to the fact the United States has said they expect to have a slightly less cold winter and as such the demand will be reduced in oil consumption.
This in turn will lead to a over supply situation with crude supply.

Originally posted by mat1978
Thanks for that chaps :thumbsup:

On a slightly differernt note, does anybody else find Supermarket petrol crap? I dont know why but there deffinately seems to be a reduction in the power of the engine when I use supermarket.

Its because they generally use crapper suppliers.

The only one I know of who actually uses a proper supplier is Sainsburys who use BP fuel at their forecourts

maybe it's a little off topic but a motorcycle magazine did a test and it proved using top quality fuel i.e. shell optimax gave something like 2 horse power more and better mpg!!!

Originally posted by fredsredhat
maybe it's a little off topic but a motorcycle magazine did a test and it proved using top quality fuel i.e. shell optimax gave something like 2 horse power more and better mpg!!!

Yeah, Optimax is da bees's b*****ks. A bloke I knew took his car for the MOT and it failed on emmisions, tester said a new CAT, anyways he wasnt so sure so he filled it up with Optimax took it down the A1 in 4th gear red lining most of the way. Returned next day for retest and it went straight through

Originally posted by mat1978
Thanks for that chaps :thumbsup:

On a slightly differernt note, does anybody else find Supermarket petrol crap? I dont know why but there deffinately seems to be a reduction in the power of the engine when I use supermarket.

I only use Esso Fuel never any problems.

Petrols come down but diesel seems to have stayed up. Cheapest I've seen it for is 82.9p. Anyone seen it cheaper ?

Originally posted by Cols
Petrols come down but diesel seems to have stayed up. Cheapest I've seen it for is 82.9p. Anyone seen it cheaper ?

I was going to say the same thing myself Cols. 81.9 is cheapest I seen at the Esso station next to the Bristol hotel. Diesel is supposed to be cheaper produce and the tax on it is 1p more than on unleaded meaning that the prices should be approximately the same. So why the differential upto 10p per litre more? Anyone know the answer?

Originally posted by MobileB
So why the differential upto 10p per litre more? Anyone know the answer?

Because oil companies are greedy bar-stewards! The profits they make as well...... :rant:

Originally posted by mat1978
does anybody else find Supermarket petrol crap? I dont know why but there deffinately seems to be a reduction in the power of the engine when I use supermarket.
Yeah, it's fine for queueing in town traffic, but I'd never run up and down the A1 with it on board. Nasty stuff. Like watered down beer.

Petrols petrol isnt it???

Whats with all this ones better than the other stuff?

Is it just people being over-cynical or am i just very ignorant with concerns to my petrol purchasing??

Originally posted by kittykat
Petrols petrol isnt it???

Whats with all this ones better than the other stuff?

Is it just people being over-cynical or am i just very ignorant with concerns to my petrol purchasing?? That'll be answer B, kittykat! It's really noticeable how your acceleration drops off with cheap fuel. Most petrol stations also offer a more expensive alternative that's supposed to clean as it goes and makes your engine justify that little chrome i on the boot! It's only really noticeable for motorway driving though, so if you're only pootling round town and queuing in traffic, burn the cheap stuff

Shell garage at the bottom of Eccelsall Road was 80.9 for diesel last week

Cheap Diesel, this can be found at Shell p/station Scotland St, Sainsburys Archer Lane, Tesco Abbeydale Rd, at the bottom of London Rd, and if I locate anymore I will post them.

erm, forgive my cynicism, but you make it sound as if we're getting a bargain! It should be 80p per gallon, not litre.

Another Great British rip-off and what do we do? Sit there and take it!

80p a gallon, yeah you are absolutely right but this ain't the US or Dubai, £1.20 a gallon and 60p a gallon respectively. We all know that we are taxed to high hell in this rip off counrty so we have to deal with it. So if they inflate the prices and we can get something less than the going OFFICIAL price/rate, then its regarded as cheap

try stoney middleton, derbyshire 87.9 it takes the mick!

ouchy!!!

shell on handsworth top has slashed its price to 76.9 to match morrisions. so it should be alright fuel really....

just how stupid are the prices now !!!!

way above the price of a few years ago where we had petrol strikes etc.

amasing how the press havent picked up on it and hence no strikes.....

Yep, time to boycott the BIG THREE again!
BP, Shell & ESSO :thumbsup:

It worked before :heyhey:

The biggest worry is that we just sit here and take it! We need to take direct action because we're being ripped-off twice. Firstly by the likes of BP and Esso who are making millions of pounds in profit per second and then, ultimately, by this government and their exhorbitant taxes.

Both groups know we have little to no alternative than to pay for this way-overpriced product.

It cost me £48 to fill my car up last week. It's costing me close to an extra £15 per month to use my car and the reality is that it's going to cost me more.

Finally, don't start me on public transport and other so-called alternatives. In a nutshell a suitable alternative does not exist, and for as long as there is no alternative - as this government knows only too well - we will be ripped-off time and again.

It's time for action.

Shell are the cheapest near me though. Cheaper even than Morrisons.

How about we each report the cheapest petrol near us, so that people know where's best to go?

For me, it's Shell just off Penistone Road on the way into town. 89.9 for Unleaded.

Slimboy Fat already has a petrol price website - he's always needing volunteers to add to it!

Check his posts / sig

Here you go! :thumbsup:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&postid=504727#post504727

The Jet station at Fir Vale has unleaded at 88.9 (or at least, it did 2 days ago). Texaco is 90.9 I think. I think that RichD has it right ... Shell are not the culprits in this fiasco; BP and Esso are extracting the urine. And probably selling it to us for 92.9p / litre ...

The problem that no-one wants to acknowledge is that oil production will peak soon (probably within the next ten years) and oil prices will continue to steadily rise until we are forced to consider alternatives, whether we like it or not. Rather than campaigning for fuel prices to be lowered (which is simply staving off the inevitable) we should be focussing on developing alternative technologies and systems to ensure that when the oil prices really start rocketing we are in a position to be able to cope.

There's another thread on here somewhrere about Oil Barrel prices although it has been hijacked into a debate about Cuba/USA relations! :D

It is ridiculous. Alternatives are not always realistic to some people. I'm paying 91.9p and it cost me £45 yesterday to fill up.

I beleive due to the weather in the USA and the adverse effect on production that more rises are planned. It'll be £1 a lite shortly! :sad:

Mod Note : Threads Merged :)

Originally posted by youwhatref

I beleive due to the weather in the USA and the adverse effect on production that more rises are planned. It'll be £1 a lite shortly! :sad:

I totally agree, mine's a diesel and at 94.9p per litre it's proving pretty costly to run her. The £1 mark is scarily close for me and my car is an absolute necessity, I'm suprised that transport firms and fleet companies have not started the protests again.

It is ridiculous. Alternatives are not always realistic to some people.

... without significant changes in lifestyle.

If one accepts the premise that, in the long run, as oil prices rise globally, lifestyles of people in countries with oil-based economies such as ours will change, then it makes sense to start preparing for this as soon as possible.

There's going to be major upheaval when it hits, whether we like it or not! In my view, whatever we can do to help lessen the impact is worthwhile.

its going to go up soon due to the tornado wrecking some oil platforms in the usa, you can bet on it

Originally posted by lammy
The problem that no-one wants to acknowledge is that oil production will peak soon (probably within the next ten years) and oil prices will continue to steadily rise until we are forced to consider alternatives, whether we like it or not. Rather than campaigning for fuel prices to be lowered (which is simply staving off the inevitable) we should be focussing on developing alternative technologies and systems to ensure that when the oil prices really start rocketing we are in a position to be able to cope.

problem is - who is going to pay to develop these? The oil companies cant because even they dont have the money - if they dont invest in oil they make no short term profits and go bankrupt. And I cant see people paying more tax to get this done either.

Worse is the gas station owners are increasing their prices on the same gas they paid less for on the last deliverys, they should be fined and have to put up a sign on their stations saying, i 'm a PRICE GAUGER.

Originally posted by nightrider
problem is - who is going to pay to develop these? The oil companies cant because even they dont have the money - if they dont invest in oil they make no short term profits and go bankrupt. And I cant see people paying more tax to get this done either.

Oil companies don't have the money? :confused:

They are raking it in, and they are all too aware of the increasing scarcity of their main product.

They are spending lots already on developing alternative energy. Here is just one example (http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=22&contentId=2006538).

Eventually oil companies will transorm into energy producing companies.

Originally posted by poppins
Worse is the gas station owners are increasing their prices on the same gas they paid less for on the last deliverys, they should be fined and have to put up a sign on their stations saying, i 'm a PRICE GAUGER.

Pretty sure that happens all over Poppins. It's suspcious how prices can rise every other day, but there's only a delivery once a week. :suspect:

Originally posted by Deavon
Oil companies don't have the money? :confused:

They are raking it in, and they are all too aware of the increasing scarcity of their main product.

They are spending lots already on developing alternative energy. Here is just one example (http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=22&contentId=2006538).

Eventually oil companies will transorm into energy producing companies.

Yes. They are raking it in by selling oil, not developing alternative fuels. I dont think they are spending the money needed to convert away from oil.

For example if we move cars to hydrogen who is going to pay to put the new gas stations in? It will cost a fortune and oil companies do not have the money for that, unless they are willing to take significantly less profits and potentially go bankrupt. And we all know the shareholders will never allow that. So I dont see how the oil companies will find the required money. Companies dont generally think long term and market realities of profit margins reinforce this behaviour.

They have invested a lot in gas, but that is because they can sell it here and now. I would be interested to see just how much bp invests in clean alternatives. I would be suprised if it was more than 1 or 2%. A token amount to get good publicity!

Most of the cost of fuel at the pumps is the govt. imposed duty and VAT. The additional 'windfall' taxation due to the steady rise in oil prices over the last 12 is estimated to be around £4 blllion, - so what are the chances of Gordon Brown reducing the duty ?

Any advance on zero ? :D

Originally posted by Deavon
Oil companies don't have the money? :confused:

They are raking it in, and they are all too aware of the increasing scarcity of their main product.

They are spending lots already on developing alternative energy. Here is just one example (http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=22&contentId=2006538).

Eventually oil companies will transorm into energy producing companies.
I recollect, many years ago, it was reported that a village peasant in India or Pakistan (or thereabouts) with not much more than a home chemistry kit, developed a 'fuel' from a grass-like plant that could be used to run petrol engines with little to no conversion. And was a 'green' fuel.

This formula was bought off him (for a substantial amount) by one of the BIG oil giants & either destroyed or shelved, and he was sworn to secrecy never to reveal it again.

Anyone else recall this?? :confused: :huh:

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
I recollect, many years ago, it was reported that a village peasant in India or Pakistan (or thereabouts) with not much more than a home chemistry kit, developed a 'fuel' from a grass-like plant that could be used to run petrol engines with little to no conversion. And was a 'green' fuel.

This formula was bought off him (for a substantial amount) by one of the BIG oil giants & either destroyed or shelved, and he was sworn to secrecy never to reveal it again.

Anyone else recall this?? :confused: :huh:

I think its an urban myth. I have heard many variations of it.

However in brazil at one point they did use ethanol which is a lot cleaner. I dont think they do anymore though, on account of oil prices having dropped (over many years since the 70's crisis, obviously I dont mean the last year or two).

Was well shocked this morning! Went past a Texaco garage, yesterday the normal price was 89.9 a litre, but it was 'special' price day & it had 2p off. Today I go past and it's 94.9p a litre!!! Talk about a jump! It's not up 1p a litre anymore!! Esso had gone up from 88.9 to 91.9 overnight too!

Okay, the rises are to do with problems and the extra costs etc, but what about once these problems are over? Once a certain problem happens, it doesn't go on forever, so once the problem is over, why don't the prices go back down?! Probably goes to explain how some of the oil companies made massive record profits last year!

I just filled up my lil' Corsa and it cost me £39.50 at the pump. :wow: It's never cost me more than £36 before, and it wasn't even that thirsty! :(

K x

You dont wanna know what it costs to fill my Jeep ;)

Only until next week when I get my LPG conversion... then I can look forward to 35p litre fuel :wow:

Also bought my wife a Mitsubishi Shogun 3.0lt which is also going under the conversion knife soon.

Gotta love cheap fuel (depending how long it lasts).

I've seen the savings on LPG, but always wondered why it attracts a tax break; is it better for the environment, or more enery efficient?

Not to be nosey DaBouncer, but how much is it?!

I would love an X5 but the petrol guzzling vehicle that it is does put me off somewhat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and whats an LGP?

About £59 these days and with an average of 15mpg it's deffo thirsty.

LPG is liquid petroleum gas and is green fuel (derived from oil).
It's in gas form (as it states in the name) and you can buy it from certain station round sheffield.

It's untaxed fuel (but for ho long... a few years yet I'd have thought) and cost as little as 29.9p per litre at the pump (some places like motorway stations charge 45p litre).

It's not cheap for a conversion on a vehicle which takes unleaded, but I'll make the money back in 12months so it's all good.

Originally posted by Kristian
I've seen the savings on LPG, but always wondered why it attracts a tax break; is it better for the environment, or more enery efficient?
Both mate :D

Originally posted by DaBouncer

It's not cheap for a conversion on a vehicle which takes unleaded, but I'll make the money back in 12months so it's all good.

DO they build many cars running on LPG?? Why isn't it more popular?? I mean for 29p a litre you'd think everyone would want to have an LPG conversion!!
How much would the conversion cost out of interest?

Originally posted by Sony
think everyone would want to have an LPG conversion!!
How much would the conversion cost out of interest?

Between one and two thousand pounds.

You have to be sure of availability wherever you drive, your resale value, the chance that the government may increase duty once it becomes popular and the costs of servicing.

Originally posted by cgksheff
Between one and two thousand pounds.

You have to be sure of availability wherever you drive, your resale value, the chance that the government may increase duty once it becomes popular and the costs of servicing.

Ahhhhhh ok. Well forget it!

If you do alot of miles lpg can be well worth it even if the price does go up in 2 years from now (next review).

A friend gets 170bhp from his lpg conversion (obviously well down on the 290bhp from petrol) yet spends less at the pump ultimately then he would with say a focus or golf tdi.

But still gets to drive a nice coupe for his 20K miles per year rather than a mass market shopping trolley. Not particularly efficient at 20-22 mpg but still alot better for the environment than these hideous particulate diesels that seem to be every other car on the road now.

I really do find it difficult to breath these days when I walk to work due to all the tractors on the roads :(

Things can only get worse guys, petrol prices are only ever going to go up. And then it'll all run out in a few years and the whole frigging world will go to shizzle - i mean, no plastic, no petrol/gas transport, no fossil fuel electricity......we're ****ed unless the goverments sort themselves out. Why do they think it's just going to sort itself out?

Oh noooo not another rise in petrol prices! :mad: I try not to take my Dad to the station with me... I just fill it up with a tenner and I can hear my Dad chuntering away in the back, moaning how its not even 3 gallons or something or other lol!

I drive a very very economical car... It's said to do 70mpg on a run, but I reckon it did about 65 when I last took it for a spin :)

I'm telling you now, it wont be long before its a squid per litre... :rolleyes:

I dont think the world will goto pot. They could easily make electric cars now that would suffice to keep society as we know it on its legs let alone what they will be able to do in 15 years when petrol starts to get scarce.

As for plastics, cant we make fully synthetic varients now? More expensive but the worlds not going to end.

Also, petrol will never run out, only just get more and more expensive. Perhaps we will be recycling plastic in future.

my car runs on coal - its the future you know ;)

one day all cars will run this way :loopy:

Originally posted by Trickle
I dont think the world will goto pot. They could easily make electric cars now that would suffice to keep society as we know it on its legs let alone what they will be able to do in 15 years when petrol starts to get scarce.

As for plastics, cant we make fully synthetic varients now? More expensive but the worlds not going to end.

Also, petrol will never run out, only just get more and more expensive. Perhaps we will be recycling plastic in future.

Oh no I'm not denying that there are other ways, and that we could do these things, but our goverments are so bloody selfish and capitalist minded they can't see past the next political term, and significant changes in fuel and energy are long term changes.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
You dont wanna know what it costs to fill my Jeep ;)

Only until next week when I get my LPG conversion... then I can look forward to 35p litre fuel :wow:

Also bought my wife a Mitsubishi Shogun 3.0lt which is also going under the conversion knife soon.

Gotta love cheap fuel (depending how long it lasts).

You SHOULD pay more for your fuel, bloody chelsea tractors taking up all of the road!

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Things can only get worse guys, petrol prices are only ever going to go up. And then it'll all run out in a few years and the whole frigging world will go to shizzle - i mean, no plastic, no petrol/gas transport, no fossil fuel electricity......we're ****ed unless the goverments sort themselves out. Why do they think it's just going to sort itself out?

There is more oil than they claim. Saying there is a shortage now pushes prices up. Well actually saying anything about oil seems to puts the prices up these days. I wouldn't be surprised if when I’m old and grey we are still pumping billions of barrels a day!

The price of petrol will stay around 90p a litre for quite a while,even without the Iraq situation and the Venezuela problem it will continue to stay high due to the demands of China and the developing countries.
We had better get used to it.

Originally posted by serapis
There is more oil than they claim. Saying there is a shortage now pushes prices up. Well actually saying anything about oil seems to puts the prices up these days. I wouldn't be surprised if when I’m old and grey we are still pumping billions of barrels a day!

The rate of new oil finds is declining each year (and the stuff they do find costs more to get at) and there is good reason to suspect opec are lying about how much they have. So we may well run out of economically viable oil in the next 5-15 years.

I just read "The end of oil" by P.Roberts. Its an eye opening book.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
You dont wanna know what it costs to fill my Jeep ;)
Tell me it's not got a 100 litre tan k like my 4x4. :o

Originally posted by noseyrosie
And then it'll all run out in a few years and the whole frigging world will go to shizzle
How many years is "a few"?

Originally posted by InvalidUser
How many years is "a few"?

I remember one of my old Science textbooks (read in, say, 2000, printed maybe 1998?) said that natural gas will run out within 40 years at the current rate of consumption (it's gone up since then!) and oil within 60. Be afraid...

Originally posted by InvalidUser
How many years is "a few"?

I remember one of my old Science textbooks (read in, say, 2000, printed maybe 1998?) said that natural gas will run out within 40 years at the current rate of consumption (it's gone up since then!) and oil within 60. Be afraid...

Originally posted by noseyrosie
I remember one of my old Science textbooks (read in, say, 2000, printed maybe 1998?) said that natural gas will run out within 40 years at the current rate of consumption (it's gone up since then!) and oil within 60. Be afraid...
I'm not afraid.

Those projections are based upon what reserves are currectly known and don't include new reserves to be discovered in the future.

Even in the extremely unlikely of event of mankind not finding another drop of oil to be drilled anywhere in the planet I'll be dead and gone by the time it runs out anyhow.

Originally posted by InvalidUser
I'm not afraid.

Those projections are based upon what reserves are currectly known and don't include new reserves to be discovered in the future.

Even in the extremely unlikely of event of mankind not finding another drop of oil to be drilled anywhere in the planet I'll be dead and gone by the time it runs out anyhow.

What a selfish attitude. I won't, for one, and even if I was I'd be worried for my children and future generations. Our society has become so reliant on fossil fuels that it's going to be turned upside down by this.

Anyway, more oil reserves = putting off the inevitable.

For those interested take a look on the BNP website,there is a section called peak oil its very informative,read it and then tell us what you think?

Plans are already underway for a new fuel source that will replace fossil fuels Rosie... so I wouldn't worry.

See here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3735017.stm

Bio-diesel is the answer as it is self-sustainable.

Some gas stations in one State here got together and trippled their prices overnight, NOT GAUGING either, it's to make people stop buying it ...... even the station owners are trying to boycot the gas prices.

Holiday weekend comming up here, people are having second thoughts on traveling now, so maybe the gas hike is working.

BBC News this morning said that prices in Europe have gone up because the US are making bulk purchases of our fuel and we have sent a lot in emergency aid.

but oil prices - for the raw stuff - have fallen by more than a $ a barrel today...

And I bet the Texans are :clap: :clap: :clap: with joy!

I drove past the petrol station on eccelsall road this morning and the price was 94.4 ,I came past it tonight and it was 99 a litre.
I dont know how they can justify it going up 5 p a litre in the space of 6 hours,its a rip off.

How much longer before we have blockades and protests again?

Anyone want to start a convoy?

Originally posted by royjames
For those interested take a look on the BNP website,there is a section called peak oil its very informative,read it and then tell us what you think? :loopy:

Was tempted but i won't bite

I guess the prices are going to stay up for a while longer, maybe they will get even higher, maybe for months - thank goodness I have a small engined car! But if fuel protests started up right now it would be wrong - there's a reason why the prices are up and that's because the US are running low on fuel. Lets just hope they knock those prices down again in a few months. :rolleyes:

And diesel too. 99.9p ltr.

One of those little private hillbilly garages enroute to Skegvegas via Louth & Cadeby etc.

Probably have to squeel like a pig too while Cletus fills you up.

99.9pltr! :o Barstewards!

passed sheffield12 its that price there too!!

Those price rises are now sneaking up from behind and leaping at us. Reckon it is a covert operation so we are all paying for the increase before anyone knows what is ahppening.

Remember what happened the last time there was a big price rise at the pumps? Funnily enough I don't either. But the point is - refuse to use those stations and find one that is cheaper. Me - I am going to cut two holes in the floor and do a flintstones.

Dragon

Just kick a hole in the rust mate :thumbsup: :hihi:

I just filled up with Shell optomax at over a quid a litre! :mad:

old chip fat works nicely, but we are having to eat loads of chips.

Morrisons at Ecclesfield is still 92.9 for unleaded!!!!!
passed texaco at ecclesall road yesterday at 99.9...eekk!! glad i waited til ecclesfield!!!

On a brighter note, a chap on the radio this morning reckoned that 70% of pumps aren't capable of going over 99.9p a litre so that's as high as it'll go at least for a while.

Originally posted by RichF
On a brighter note, a chap on the radio this morning reckoned that 70% of pumps aren't capable of going over 99.9p a litre so that's as high as it'll go at least for a while.

Went in our local Esso this morning (97.9) but worse news was that they were just putting up a new LED display board out on the forecourt and when I counted the spaces on it they can most definitely put prices on that at more than a quid a litre! Looks like they're gearing themselves up for it.Yikes:gag:

Rip off Britain still functioning then.

Just returned from France with diesel at 70p per litre. If they can do it why can't we?

Originally posted by RichF
On a brighter note, a chap on the radio this morning reckoned that 70% of pumps aren't capable of going over 99.9p a litre so that's as high as it'll go at least for a while.

i was saying this to my missus the other day.. almost all of them have 3 digit displays, so unless they want to fork out for new signs (and i can't imagine those things are cheap) it will have to max out at 99.9..

unless, of course, the reason for this recent price spike is to pre-empt the actual rise in oil prices, and generate some revenue to pay for the new signs :roll:

oh no, i've just realised; the shell garage i use at the bottom of eccy road is being renovated! i hope one of the "improvements" isn't a larger price display!!

They will just sell fuel in half litres instead of litres. No new signs, and it'll drop to 50p! Bargain ;)

Originally posted by Mo
Rip off Britain still functioning then.

Just returned from France with diesel at 70p per litre. If they can do it why can't we?

Do they get free NHS over there?

Originally posted by sniperwookie
They will just sell fuel in half litres instead of litres. No new signs, and it'll drop to 50p! Bargain ;)
Or they'll drop the decimal point and sell it in full pennies....

Originally posted by John
Do they get free NHS over there?

They get a first rate education system, don't charge their students to study and have a road system that makes ours look prehistoric. ;)

Originally posted by Mo
They get a first rate education system, don't charge their students to study and have a road system that makes ours look prehistoric. ;)

As does their rail system.

And their blokes are all so damned attractive (http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/hbnd/quasimodo%20whipped%20closeup.jpg). It must be gene therapy.

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
And their blokes are all so damned attractive (http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/hbnd/quasimodo%20whipped%20closeup.jpg). It must be gene therapy.

That is soooo funny :lol:

Originally posted by Mo
They get a first rate education system, don't charge their students to study and have a road system that makes ours look prehistoric. ;)

but.. but.. they drive on the right :shocked:





:D

JUst back from Hampshire at the weekend.... £1.03!!

Originally posted by speenie
JUst back from Hampshire at the weekend.... £1.03!!

And I thought I was being ripped off @ 93.9p per litre @ Morrisons:o.

hi

heard on the radio today that the big companies are already investing in these signs as in most places the signs are the onlyreason the price isn't already over £1. Doesn't seem too long ago we were paying about 70p here. God knows how far it's going to go once they get the new signs

I just got back from Islay where it's £107.5 a litre. Won't be long till the same here - that was on very old rusty pumps so can't see the pumps being a problem, as others have said it's just the big signs they need to change.
And ever noticed how it's never the same company that is the first to put up prices? They actually liaise with each other and take it in turns to be the one to be first to raise prices so that they all get an equal round of bad PR.
And why does the price never go down when the oil price slips again?
And how come the price goes up immediately the barrel price goes up? I mean, they've got a massive tank under each garage. I can't believe that within hours of crude oil going up that the oil is refined and delivered to the station and it is THAT, more expensive, petrol I'm buying. Surely they're just charging more for the stuff that's still in their tanks. Seems odd to me that there's no delay.

Originally posted by vickie
Doesn't seem too long ago we were paying about 70p here.

I can remember it (petrol) costing 72p per gallon (early 70s), which works out @ about 16p per litre. I also remember being told that our reserves would have run out by the early 80s:confused:

Could anybody who is taking notes on these prices please PM them.

They will then be uploaded to my site (see signature for link)

All thats needed is....

Road name - Company - Unleaded - Diesel - LPG if advertised - Date checked.

TIA
Slimboy Fat

Originally posted by hotphil
I just got back from Islay where it's £107.5 a litre.

Jesus Christ! That's an expensive litre! :shocked:

I see on todays news that the fuel protesters are going to block all the refinerys starting next wednesday



fuel protests (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4221296.stm)

I read the article and hope these protests do go ahead. What confuses me is what is the difference between tax on petrol and road fuel duty tax?

If you removed tax - all tax - from petrol, any idea what it would actually cost?

I am not saying this is something we should do, but surely we are paying more tax on petrol than any other country? Or do you know ones that pay more?

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
If you removed tax - all tax - from petrol, any idea what it would actually cost?

The price would drop by approx 52.3%. So a 90p litre of petrol would cost 42.9p per litre.

I was under the impression that 19out of every 20pence we spend on fuel was tax, so it would cost very little.

I drive 30 miles a day just to get to work and back. But I back the protests.

I just hope there's no repeat occurrence of the taxi driver who filled a wheelie bin with petrol in his house last time. There's a reason you're only supposed to use approved containers....

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
I was under the impression that 19out of every 20pence we spend on fuel was tax, so it would cost very little.
Nah, someone was exaggerating.

Certainly feels like it though.

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
I was under the impression that 19out of every 20pence we spend on fuel was tax, so it would cost very little.

Sorry I forgot to factor VAT into the equation. So it's 67.2% tax. Therefore if fuel tax was dropped a 90p litre of fuel would cost 29.52p.

This is based on the information on the below page. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/business_petrol_pricing/html/1.stm

What a waste of time. There's nothing the Government can do to control the global oil market and little they can do to affect prices. Yes, they could drop fuel duties by a few pence while the worldwide demand is high, but the price could (and probably will) keep on rising, so it would be futile. And they could only cut the tax by a penny or two or the chancellor would risk destabilising the balance of Governement spending which is planned years in advance and is incredibly complex. Cut a tax back and you have also to cut spending back, but it cannot be done overnight; meanwhile the UK economy would be damaged by government overspending. I'm afraid it's simplistic solutions being sought by these fuel protest people, and they are seeking to exploit a natural disaster to achieve their own ends. If anyone in a position of power could do anything about this then it's the petrol companies themselves. But in this situation following Hurricane Katrina, I doubt there's much leeway.

I'm 100% behind these fuel protesters. Why should we be ripped off so much for fuel.

How come the rest of Europe can change so little by comparison but we are charged through the nose?

From http://www.fuelprotest.com/index.php?content=facts

Amazingly enough the government thinks that it is fair to charge a whopping 340% tax on petrol.

That means that for every £50 you spend, £37 is pure tax.

Here is a site that gives a comparison between the fuel prices across Europe. The data’s is a little out of date being from Feb 2005 but gives a good indication of who gets what.

http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm

The Netherlands get it worse than us with 89.6 in Feb 2005 for Unleaded but the Greek’s by far had the best pricing of 57.6.

Originally posted by Mathom
What a waste of time. There's nothing the Government can do to control the global oil market and little they can do to affect prices. Yes, they could drop fuel duties by a few pence while the worldwide demand is high, but the price could (and probably will) keep on rising, so it would be futile. And they could only cut the tax by a penny or two or the chancellor would risk destabilising the balance of Governement spending which is planned years in advance and is incredibly complex. Cut a tax back and you have also to cut spending back, but it cannot be done overnight; meanwhile the UK economy would be damaged by government overspending. I'm afraid it's simplistic solutions being sought by these fuel protest people, and they are seeking to exploit a natural disaster to achieve their own ends. If anyone in a position of power could do anything about this then it's the petrol companies themselves. But in this situation following Hurricane Katrina, I doubt there's much leeway.

I have to agree that the UK government has little of any influence in the world oil prices but they have everything to do with why the UK price is so high. Even countries with no oil reserves much lower fuel prices.

One thing I do disagree with what you said is that It is not the fuel protesters who are exploiting a natural disaster but the oil companies such as shell and BP. The fact is Brent Crude was selling at a higher price in mid August that it is today 10 days before Katrina struck.

Originally posted by Mathom
What a waste of time. There's nothing the Government can do to control the global oil market and little they can do to affect prices. Yes, they could drop fuel duties by a few pence while the worldwide demand is high, but the price could (and probably will) keep on rising, so it would be futile. And they could only cut the tax by a penny or two or the chancellor would risk destabilising the balance of Governement spending which is planned years in advance and is incredibly complex. Cut a tax back and you have also to cut spending back, but it cannot be done overnight; meanwhile the UK economy would be damaged by government overspending. I'm afraid it's simplistic solutions being sought by these fuel protest people, and they are seeking to exploit a natural disaster to achieve their own ends. If anyone in a position of power could do anything about this then it's the petrol companies themselves. But in this situation following Hurricane Katrina, I doubt there's much leeway.
The UK government spend less money from the duty received from fuel on roads, public transport than any other country.
Every penny the USA get from fuel duty goes into the road systems, public transport network etc.

Have a look at the BBC news homepage for a breakdown of duty spending.
I personally think that if the government removed VAT from fuel, it would ease the pressure a bit.
The reason the government needs so much fuel duty is to pay for the benefit system this country has. Maybe they need to make some serious changes across the board.

It's not our fault the government don't know what they're doing with tax money received from here, there and everywhere.

I heard this also... Had better get mine filled up then! It's only a teeny tank so a full tank don't last long!!! :o

Wonder whether the protest will go ahead or if the Government will drop it a bit to avoid trouble... :suspect:
Back 'em all the way :thumbsup:

Just a thought-------someone pointed out that the government need all the tax revenue it can get . Well ...........yes ........since New Labour now employs 800,000 more civil servants than it did in 1997 , I suppose it does need a lot more money.
After all , someone has to supervise the collection and re-distribution of all that money.

I can't believe the protests only lasted one week back in 2000.
It seemed like a lot longer than that.

I doubt government will bow to the pressure, they didn't last time.

Maybe the oil companies will bow though when they're not making any sales in this country.

Originally posted by Dragon
If you removed tax - all tax - from petrol


They would get the money back from you somehow, another tax would increase to cover the shortfall.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
The UK government spend less money from the duty received from fuel on roads, public transport than any other country.
Every penny the USA get from fuel duty goes into the road systems, public transport network etc.

Have a look at the BBC news homepage for a breakdown of duty spending.
I personally think that if the government removed VAT from fuel, it would ease the pressure a bit.
The reason the government needs so much fuel duty is to pay for the benefit system this country has. Maybe they need to make some serious changes across the board.

It's not our fault the government don't know what they're doing with tax money received from here, there and everywhere.

The way our exchequer works is that all the money comes in and is then spent on what the Govt has committed to - it is not used in a 'straight swap' on like-for-like things as it is in the US.

Govt income and spending is calculated years in advance and it is not simple to make sudden changes in the accounting. This is actually a good thing as we do not have massive spending crises that other nations suffer (e.g. Russia suddenly finding there is no money to pay its nurses and teachers) and it keeps the economy stable and hence our homes and jobs.

Whatever the money is spent on is academic, as changes such as wholescale alteration to the benefit system cannot be made suddenly (that would take five to ten years). What I am saying is that fuel duties could be cut by one or two pennies in the short term but they would go up again after any crisis in any case.

The big question is why we are taxed so much in the first place - and it is obviously to attempt to restrict our consumption of fuel. In a crowded nation where everyone wants to drive, even if they do not have to, restrictions are the result. Its the same with cigarettes - the tax is clearly there to make us cut down.

I want it to happen just to see the likes of Blair and Prescott come out with the usual bull.

Prescott: 'Bloody idiots fuel protesting don't understand tax lorries for what revenue damn mad fellas. We can't control the effects of mother nature had look Tsunami and now New Orleans and we don't take more than 3%, chuffin protestors, we will not budge, look, idiot, we need to reinvest, housing, NHS, profit margin, low, high and water everywhere. Whadya expect. Hmpph.

'Worse than before 1997. When before Thatcher, Ian Dunking Biscuits and now that Michael. How can the right horrible gentleman say cheap petrol compared to Mars, look, terrace housing, wonderful, tomorrow's kids, green grass and bright future. Look! What's so difficult to understand?'

Blair: 'Hey, c'mon, look, it's like, er...., well, erm, reinvestment in housing, health, health, health. And don't forget what we inherited eight years ago. Rome wasn't built in a day you know. Hey, come on. And poor Bushy-Wushy needs his friends you know.'

BRING IT ON. Bring the Labour Government to its knees.

You could all switch to LPG or electric cars.

(just a sugestion)

Originally posted by nick2
You could all switch to LPG or electric cars.

(just a sugestion)
I get my LPG Converted Jeep back next Thursday as it happens.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I get my LPG Converted Jeep back next Thursday as it happens.

Cool, where do you fill it up ? Is it cheaper to run ? I assume the emmisions will be much lower ?

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I get my LPG Converted Jeep back next Thursday as it happens.

LPG is a good idea, but doesn't it take years to recoup the cost of conversion, by which time you've traded it in and the next owner reaps the rewards of your initial outlay?

Originally posted by nick2
Cool, where do you fill it up ? Is it cheaper to run ? I assume the emmisions will be much lower ?
Fill up either at Bramall Lane BP garage, or Darnall or Tinsley (Darnall Jet cheapest @ 29.9p per ltr).

Emissions much much lower, works out a lot cheaper to run yes.

Mojoworking, I will recoup the costs back in 12-18 months max (as I have worked out) and I intend to keep the vehicle until it pops it's clogs, so the only persona receiving the rewards will be me :D

Originally posted by nick2
You could all switch to LPG or electric cars.

(just a sugestion)

Unfortunately thats not an option unless you're well off :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Scutts
Unfortunately thats not an option unless you're well off :rolleyes:

You will have to be very rich soon to buy petrol, might as well get converted now and start saving money, see posts above, it pays for itself in under 2 years.

Originally posted by nick2
You will have to be very rich soon to buy petrol, might as well get converted now and start saving money, see posts above, it pays for itself in under 2 years.
That was based on petrol at 79.9p per litre too.
With current trends mine will pay for itself sooner due to prices as they are.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I get my LPG Converted Jeep back next Thursday as it happens.

How much did it cost to get done, if you dont mind me asking?

the exchequer makes 20bn per year from oil based commodities, plus tax from oil companies & vat which equates to another 10bn£.where will they raise that cash from if not from oil duty.
they withheld the tax escalator following the last protest, which was about taxation on fuel if i remember correctly.however due to the restrictions & the reduced profits being made since then there are now 25% less forecourts to buy your fuel from.
there is little the govt can do to force oil suppliers to drop prices.
there should be a seasonal drop in demand soon which may help petrol users bur diesel users will continue to suffer.

I wouldn't bloody mind but what have we got on our doorstep- the north sea oil rigs- we could be self sustaining but we choose to ship it in from the arabs!

Originally posted by Ousetunes
I want it to happen just to see the likes of Blair and Prescott come out with the usual bull.

Prescott: 'Bloody idiots fuel protesting don't understand tax lorries for what revenue damn mad fellas. We can't control the effects of mother nature had look Tsunami and now New Orleans and we don't take more than 3%, chuffin protestors, we will not budge, look, idiot, we need to reinvest, housing, NHS, profit margin, low, high and water everywhere. Whadya expect. Hmpph.

'Worse than before 1997. When before Thatcher, Ian Dunking Biscuits and now that Michael. How can the right horrible gentleman say cheap petrol compared to Mars, look, terrace housing, wonderful, tomorrow's kids, green grass and bright future. Look! What's so difficult to understand?'

Blair: 'Hey, c'mon, look, it's like, er...., well, erm, reinvestment in housing, health, health, health. And don't forget what we inherited eight years ago. Rome wasn't built in a day you know. Hey, come on. And poor Bushy-Wushy needs his friends you know.'

BRING IT ON. Bring the Labour Government to its knees.

ROFL. Its funny because its true!!!

Originally posted by floyd77
How much did it cost to get done, if you dont mind me asking?
It depends on where you get it done and what car you drive, where you have the LPG tank fitted, how old your car is, if you have a multi or single piont conversion etc.

As a ball park figure, I'm considering having my wifes Vauxhall Frontera converted with a multipoint conversion with the tank in the boot.
Should cost approx £1500 + VAT.

If you want an estimate contact www.centralgaragecarcroft.co.uk for a quote, they're the closest approved installers of LPG systems.
You can also look on the Auto Trader for LPG converted vehicle, some good deals around already.

Originally posted by willman
the exchequer makes 20bn per year from oil based commodities, plus tax from oil companies & vat which equates to another 10bn£.where will they raise that cash from if not from oil duty.
they withheld the tax escalator following the last protest, which was about taxation on fuel if i remember correctly.however due to the restrictions & the reduced profits being made since then there are now 25% less forecourts to buy your fuel from.
there is little the govt can do to force oil suppliers to drop prices.
there should be a seasonal drop in demand soon which may help petrol users bur diesel users will continue to suffer.

How about putting tax on aviation fuel? They can reap the tax from there.

This would put the cost of your cheap flights to Europe up, but that’s hardly a prime requisite compared to getting to work or old people being able to go to the local supermarket.

Originally posted by Mathom
The big question is why we are taxed so much in the first place - and it is obviously to attempt to restrict our consumption of fuel. In a crowded nation where everyone wants to drive, even if they do not have to, restrictions are the result. Its the same with cigarettes - the tax is clearly there to make us cut down.

Well i guess a few of you know my opinions on this but I agree. High fuel costs is one way of reducing their usage. Its just a shame the goverment don't put more of the revenue back into promoting green transport - whether that be LPG conversion or improving public transport.

Originally posted by nick2
You will have to be very rich soon to buy petrol, might as well get converted now and start saving money, see posts above, it pays for itself in under 2 years.

As I said, it's an option if you've got £1500 spare cash now to get it converted. Most people don't have that kind of spare money :(

Originally posted by serapis
How about putting tax on aviation fuel? They can reap the tax from there.

This would put the cost of your cheap flights to Europe up, but that’s hardly a prime requisite compared to getting to work or old people being able to go to the local supermarket.

dont disagree but it wont raise 30bn£ and the first thing to happen will be a reduction in flights from the uk, as with the petrol stations.
i dont support a £1 per litre but i think protesting would be a complete waste of time & disruption for the "common" man.

Originally posted by TimmyR
Well i guess a few of you know my opinions on this but I agree. High fuel costs is one way of reducing their usage. Its just a shame the goverment don't put more of the revenue back into promoting green transport - whether that be LPG conversion or improving public transport.

LPG is only cheap because of its deemed more environmentally friendly. Once people start to convert and the amount of tax going into the government coffers drops they will change their minds in exactly the same way they did with Greener Diesel. Look at the price of that now it’s higher than unleaded!

Originally posted by TimmyR
Well i guess a few of you know my opinions on this but I agree. High fuel costs is one way of reducing their usage. Its just a shame the goverment don't put more of the revenue back into promoting green transport - whether that be LPG conversion or improving public transport.

i think a major car manufacturer is now trying to develop an engine that will work off veggie oil as normal cars do off fuel oil.
the higher crude prices get & the more chance of reduction of supply the more likely the development of similar products i would expect.

Originally posted by serapis
How about putting tax on aviation fuel? They can reap the tax from there.

This would put the cost of your cheap flights to Europe up, but that’s hardly a prime requisite compared to getting to work or old people being able to go to the local supermarket.

It would also put up the price of everything imported/exported by air, so the UK will become an even less attractive trading partner. People will end-up with no jobs to go to anyway and the local supermarket will be half empty, but hey, you'll be able to drive around cheaper.

It's very easy to suggest taxing something that won't directly effect you, but it's very short-sighted.

I think Diesel engines were originally invented to run on almost anything flamable, like vegetable oil.

Originally posted by willman
dont disagree but it wont raise 30bn£ and the first thing to happen will be a reduction in flights from the uk, as with the petrol stations.
i dont support a £1 per litre but i think protesting would be a complete waste of time & disruption for the "common" man.

I don’t think we should replace tax on petrol and diesel with tax on aviation, but if we taxed aviation fuel then maybe the tax burden on the population could be reduced.

Look at all these airline companies who are making billions in profit. Why should they be treated any different to the rest of us. Oh I know why, because we never gave million pound hand outs to the labour party to help them get elected!

Originally posted by nick2
It would also put up the price of everything imported/exported by air, so the UK will become an even less attractive trading partner. People will end-up with no jobs to go to anyway and the local supermarket will be half empty, but hey, you'll be able to drive around cheaper.

It's very easy to suggest taxing something that won't directly effect you, but it's very short-sighted.

I think Diesel engines were originally invented to run on almost anything flamable, like vegetable oil.

The vast majority of goods that come into the UK are delivered by sea. Aviation comprises of something like 5-10% of UK imports and exports.

Plus because of the relative strength of the pound our export market is almost dead in the water anyway.

Originally posted by serapis
LPG is only cheap because of its deemed more environmentally friendly. Once people start to convert and the amount of tax going into the government coffers drops they will change their minds in exactly the same way they did with Greener Diesel. Look at the price of that now it’s higher than unleaded!
This is true.
However the government wont be reviewing the taxation on LPG fuel for at least 2 years, by which time the cost will have been recouped.

Originally posted by serapis
The vast majority of goods that come into the UK are delivered by sea. Aviation comprises of something like 5-10% of UK imports and exports.

Proof ?

Originally posted by serapis
LPG is only cheap because of its deemed more environmentally friendly. Once people start to convert and the amount of tax going into the government coffers drops they will change their minds in exactly the same way they did with Greener Diesel. Look at the price of that now it’s higher than unleaded!

Indeed I guess if demand increases there may also be problems with supply. We don't presently have the infrastructure to support high consumption.

According to this site (http://www.autogas.ltd.uk/whereToBuy.htm#) the nearest LPG place to my house is 27 km away! Maybe thats just shell though. Point is, there's not much available at present.

Originally posted by serapis
I don’t think we should replace tax on petrol and diesel with tax on aviation, but if we taxed aviation fuel then maybe the tax burden on the population could be reduced.

Look at all these airline companies who are making billions in profit. Why should they be treated any different to the rest of us. Oh I know why, because we never gave million pound hand outs to the labour party to help them get elected!

apparently the opinion of major airlines and the likes of shell is that any additional taxatation, windfall taxes etc would purely encourage them to locate to the states where there tax level would be zero.
there other comment also is that when oil was £10 per barrel(10 years ago) they were making a loss but the govt's didn't help them.now oils is in short supply they are having to reinvest in new licences for exploration and they feel that justifies current pricing levels.
and i'm only quoting public statemnets not expressing my opinion (for a change)

Originally posted by nick2
Proof ?

Unfortunately I can’t give proof as it was something I saw on a news report sometime ago. They where discussing the fuel duty on aviation fuel.

Also if the reasons why we are taxed so much was to try and slow consumption on Environmental reasons this is pap! The rise in air travel is seriously damaging the environment and some studies have shown this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3864099.stm

It appears the emissions from aircraft alone could undo the good work done to cut emissions from cars, power stations etc.

Originally posted by TimmyR
Indeed I guess if demand increases there may also be problems with supply. We don't presently have the infrastructure to support high consumption.

According to this site (http://www.autogas.ltd.uk/whereToBuy.htm#) the nearest LPG place to my house is 27 km away! Maybe thats just shell though. Point is, there's not much available at present.
Register with www.go-autogas.com and you'll find there is there are at least 4 (I think even more) filling stations currently in Sheffield that offer LPG.

What about the petrol companies?has anyone mentoined them?About the £millions profit per second.Surely they are to blame as well.:mad:When the price of oil comes down will their prices come down?Dont think so:rolleyes:

Originally posted by serapis
Unfortunately I can’t give proof as it was something I saw on a news report sometime ago. They where discussing the fuel duty on aviation fuel.

Also if the reasons why we are taxed so much was to try and slow consumption on Environmental reasons this is pap! The rise in air travel is seriously damaging the environment and some studies have shown this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3864099.stm

It appears the emissions from aircraft alone could undo the good work done to cut emissions from cars, power stations etc.

All the more reason to develop high speed rail links. Something similar to the maglev train (300mph shanghai) from london to edinburgh would take less time than flying (no check in times) and could cut requirement for internal flights. This would carry vast capital costs however, something a bit slower like the Channel tunnel rail link/eurostar would still be pretty damn quick (180mph). And they'd both be a lot quicker than driving.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=184132005

Originally posted by TimmyR
And they'd both be a lot quicker than driving.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=184132005

People would still find some excuse to drive though, even if the train to London was free and took 1 hour I know some people who would rather drive than set foot on "public transport".

Originally posted by nick2
People would still find some excuse to drive though, even if the train to London was free and took 1 hour I know some people who would rather drive than set foot on "public transport".
You know if the tram come close to my house and it was reasonably fast, cost effective and comfortable (where you're not packed like sardines) I'd happily get the tram to work.

In the event of such action, I hope the police use their powers to deal with these 'protestors' effectively.

Just a thought: perhaps the government could remove all tax from petrol, and introduce a tax on stupidity instead? That would really give these 'protestors' something to protest about - talk about hitting them where it hurts...

Originally posted by DaBouncer
You know if the tram come close to my house and it was reasonably fast, cost effective and comfortable (where you're not packed like sardines) I'd happily get the tram to work.

Thats what I mean by excuses, "if it came close to my house" and "where your not packed in like sardines", in other words if it was like a car.

No offence, I just hear the same things from my mates all the times, together with "if it wasn't full of common people", "if it didn't smell", "if it didn't stop at every stop (?)"

Originally posted by nick2
Thats what I mean by excuses, "if it came close to my house" and "where your not packed in like sardines", in other words if it was like a car.

No offence, I just hear the same things from my mates all the times, together with "if it wasn't full of common people", "if it didn't smell", "if it didn't stop at every stop (?)"
I live at meadowhead... the closest tram is a Gleadless Townend :loopy: so yes, it's too far away to walk it you numpty.
It costs me less to take my car and park than it does to get the bus, so that's out too.
That alright for you?

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I live at meadowhead... the closest tram is a Gleadless Townend :loopy: so yes, it's too far away to walk it you numpty.
It costs me less to take my car and park than it does to get the bus, so that's out too.
That alright for you?

I did say "no offense", no need to get your knickers in a twist.

Originally posted by nick2
Thats what I mean by excuses, "if it came close to my house" and "where your not packed in like sardines", in other words if it was like a car.

No offence, I just hear the same things from my mates all the times, together with "if it wasn't full of common people", "if it didn't smell", "if it didn't stop at every stop (?)"

That is so true. And its worse with buses. A friend of mine, a town planner, was telling me that psycologically people feel a sense of well being getting on a tram and feel that they improve the area in which they live. On the other hand, they feel buses do the opposite and people gain no pleasure using them.

I feel the best solution to transport is the trolleybus i.e. a bus powered by overhead lines. Much cheaper than trams - no tracks, can get round obstacles, v quiet, clean - no diesel fumes and can take a lot of passengers if they use those bendy buses.

And subsidise them!

Originally posted by nick2
I did say "no offense", no need to get your knickers in a twist.
Well I hear people always saying stop making excuses and use our substandard, pathetic excuse for public transport over my car, so it does get my Calvien Klines in a twist.

Apologies, I didn't notice the no offence until after my post :blush:

Originally posted by serapis

Also if the reasons why we are taxed so much was to try and slow consumption on Environmental reasons this is pap! The rise in air travel is seriously damaging the environment and some studies have shown this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3864099.stm

It appears the emissions from aircraft alone could undo the good work done to cut emissions from cars, power stations etc.

The Govt has already started introducing greater duties on air travel - there was anew tax brought in a couple fo years ago on this and you can get they will do more. As I've said though, it all takes time for the exchequer to plan what it is going to do and balance the books, so it's only a matter of time before another duty gets imposed on air travel.

The green issue is not just about emissions with traffic - it's also about space as our roads are filling up.

Originally posted by TimmyR
I feel the best solution to transport is the trolleybus i.e. a bus powered by overhead lines. Much cheaper than trams - no tracks, can get round obstacles, v quiet, clean - no diesel fumes and can take a lot of passengers if they use those bendy buses.

And subsidise them!
They have those in San Francisco.
I suppose it save tearing up the roads, and yes it's cleaner for the environment.
I'd support that and use it provided it was cost effective and enough of them run so you don't over crowd them.

We may not be overcrowded in our cars, but we are significantly overcrowded on the roads. Is it not better to reduce car usage and get everyone on larger, albeit crowded, green vehicles to shift them about. Theres too many of us to all be able to use individual vehicles. And of course this will get worse.

Originally posted by nick2
People would still find some excuse to drive though, even if the train to London was free and took 1 hour I know some people who would rather drive than set foot on "public transport".

it is also supply & demand, my wife elected to try the tram for 3 months last year as she was unable to drive,and abrely able to walk.during that time they had 3 accidents which meant i had to collect them from manor top on one occasion.(with no refund i'll add)
however, 'cos we are at the terminus she can always find a seat on the outward journey, it is still always packed & unpleasant by the time it reaches sheffield. on the return journey from west st, she has to stand all the way to Gleadless every day.again the journey is unpleasant & uncomfortable.
why should people have to pay for that type of treatment?

How about if they gave you tax back for car pooling, who would do that ?

Originally posted by TimmyR
We may not be overcrowded in our cars, but we are significantly overcrowded on the roads. Is it not better to reduce car usage and get everyone on larger, albeit crowded, green vehicles to shift them about. Theres too many of us to all be able to use individual vehicles. And of course this will get worse.

but sat in a car you are in your own "comfort" zone & in control to a certain extent.

Originally posted by willman
on the return journey from west st, she has to stand all the way to Gleadless every day.again the journey is unpleasant & uncomfortable.
why should people have to pay for that type of treatment?

I don't know what time she's traveling then but I come back from the Cathedral to Park Grange (same line) and almost always get a seat, even in the "rush" hour.

Originally posted by nick2
I don't know what time she's traveling then but I come back from the Cathedral to Park Grange (same line) and almost always get a seat, even in the "rush" hour.

she travels 7.50 to west street and approx 17.10 every day, she still catches it now but not every day, but the outward journey is usually to UGC.
she absolutley hates using it, but not as much as buses.

Someone has been thinking about trolley buses:

http://www.tbus.org.uk/home.htm


One of these powered by renewable energy: zero emmisions of any kind.

Originally posted by willman
but sat in a car you are in your own "comfort" zone & in control to a certain extent.

Its always giong to be hard to pursuade people to give up there own control, even if the alternatives are cheaper and quicker - some peolpe just like to be in control - I feel this also on my bike (pedals). If these alternatives were cheaper and quicker though a lot of people would choose that option.

Originally posted by Greenback
In the event of such action, I hope the police use their powers to deal with these 'protestors' effectively.

Just a thought: perhaps the government could remove all tax from petrol, and introduce a tax on stupidity instead? That would really give these 'protestors' something to protest about - talk about hitting them where it hurts...

I dont recall them doing this last time. They just let them get on with it.

I agree they should use the full force of the law though. If they want to protest fine, but blocking supply lines that affects stuff like the nhs and food supplies is not on.

Originally posted by TimmyR
I feel the best solution to transport is the trolleybus i.e. a bus powered by overhead lines. Much cheaper than trams - no tracks, can get round obstacles, v quiet, clean - no diesel fumes and can take a lot of passengers if they use those bendy buses.

Clean? Far from it! They are powered by electricity which is, in most cases produces by burning coal which in turn is causing massive damage to the environment.

Originally posted by serapis
Clean? Far from it! They are powered by electricity which is, in most cases produces by burning coal which in turn is causing massive damage to the environment.

Yes, but it still produces a lot less pollution than a traditional petrol engine would I thought. So even if it isnt the final solution its worth doing if we can do it now. Every little will help.

Originally posted by Mathom
The Govt has already started introducing greater duties on air travel - there was anew tax brought in a couple fo years ago on this and you can get they will do more. As I've said though, it all takes time for the exchequer to plan what it is going to do and balance the books, so it's only a matter of time before another duty gets imposed on air travel.

The green issue is not just about emissions with traffic - it's also about space as our roads are filling up.

That’s not entirely correct. As far as I’m aware the UK does not tax aviation fuel at present and nor do most of the EU.

BBC News Thursday, 17 February, 2005
At present, the fuel used by airlines enjoys either a very low tax rate or is untaxed in EU member states
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4273223.stm

Originally posted by serapis
Clean? Far from it! They are powered by electricity which is, in most cases produces by burning coal which in turn is causing massive damage to the environment.


Yes clean: The efficiency of a car is something around 5%. The efficiency of a coal fired power station is around 35%. So, the amount of fuel burned is reduced. Furthermore, the emmissions produced is also reduced and can be more readily controlled. Yes coal is dirty, but not as dirty as the Internal Combustion Engine.

(i'm trying to find some figures to back this up)

Yes clean: we don't have to get all our power from coal. Already we are turning to renewable sources.

Yes clean: locally, in cities there are no fumes for us to consume.

Are you being a devils advocate or are you being another car driver who refuses to accept that cars are not always the best form of transport?

Well why not lower the tax on fuel and put it on smokin and booze..:hihi: :hihi: :thumbsup: Got to get the reveue from somewhere.:thumbsup:

Originally posted by burnttoast
Well why not lower the tax on fuel and put it on smokin and booze..:hihi: :hihi: :thumbsup: Got to get the reveue from somewhere.:thumbsup:

It took until page 5, but I knew it would get here.

From this report (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/page/co2_report/co2report.html)I have found out that:

A coal fired power station produces 2.12 pounds CO2 per kWh where a petroleum fired power station produces 1.915 pounds CO2 per kWh. So not much in it. As a result of the inefficiency of engines compared to power stations, it can be summised that much more CO2 is produced by people being driven around in diesel buses than in electric trolley buses. Furthermore, much more energy is required to do it. QED


To conclude, lets see taxes increased on fuel and pay for a lovely clean trolley bus network across the whole country. That way our children can all stop getting asthma from pollution.

Originally posted by serapis
That’s not entirely correct. As far as I’m aware the UK does not tax aviation fuel at present and nor do most of the EU.

Yes, it isn't on actual fuel, but it is levied on the passenger - I can't remember the exact amount but I think it was something like £30 per person for passing through a UK airport?

I agree though, a fuel tax on avaition fuel would only be fair too as this is even more of a pollutant.

I wonder if any protests this time around would be different? There have been some in the intervening years but these only took the form of pickets. And I seem to think that there have been changes in the law on protest since - maybe someone who posted on the threads about the G8 protests may know?

But all the same, I think that contingency plans may be stronger now for making sure essential workers like nurses can get to work, or at least I'd hope so. It's just the ordinary people who would suffer. It cost the economy £1bn last time. :o

We could just build more nuclear power stations to power the electric cars/busses/trains.

Eventually we will be able to dump the plutonium somewhere out of the way, like the moon :)

The Government anticipated bringing in £8billion in petrol duties this financial year. That was with an average price of 85p per litre. The current anticipation is £10billion and climbing.

I would like to see a radical proposal that they keep duty at its current levels and abolish road tax. Less beauracratic and more emphasis on the people who use the road paying for it.

Originally posted by TimmyR
From this report (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/page/co2_report/co2report.html)I have found out that:

A coal fired power station produces 2.12 pounds CO2 per kWh where a petroleum fired power station produces 1.915 pounds CO2 per kWh. So not much in it.

When you put it like that yes there is not much in it, but seeing most power stations have a life cycle in the region of 20-40 years and produce thousands of megawatts per day. Then over time the difference becomes massive by comparison!

I very much hope any protests do not happen if they would involve restricting the flow of petrol by force as happened in 2000.

It doesn't take long before the whole country grinds to a halt with food shortages etc. We could end up in not too disimilar situation to what is curently happening in America (minus the floods of course). If that did look like happening I hope the Government would send the troops in to sort it out.

If the protest is just a protest (marches, placards etc) I can't see any harm in that and it is people's democratic right to protest in that way.

Originally posted by nick2
It took until page 5, but I knew it would get here.

Yeh sometimes its hard to get a word in edgeways.All this nattering goin on:heyhey:
Think I got a point though :D
Sorry if Ive upset all the boozers an smokers.:P

Revenue..see I can spell it :hihi:

Originally posted by burnttoast
Yeh sometimes its hard to get a word in edgeways.All this nattering goin on:heyhey:
Think I got a point though :D
Sorry if Ive upset all the boozers an smokers.:P

Revenue..see I can spell it :hihi:
Someone had to say it, and in my opinion it's every bit as valid an opinion as any other. I'm not saying I agree, but I understand where you're coming from:

Almost every individual would like a situation where the majority of taxes, duties etc were collected from activities/facilities that do not apply to them. It makes sense - if you're not doing the taxable things, you're better off.

Originally posted by serapis
When you put it like that yes there is not much in it, but seeing most power stations have a life cycle in the region of 20-40 years and produce thousands of megawatts per day. Then over time the difference becomes massive by comparison!

I don't understand your point. I'm talking about reducing the overall amount of energy used and emissions. I am saying that 20 people moving around on a diesel powered bus will use more energy and produce more emissions than 20 people on an electrically powered trolley bus. Therefore, trolleybuses are cleaner.

What you are saying is that a coal fired power station will produce more emissions than say a diesel bus over its lifetime. Is that not obvious?

Originally posted by TimmyR
I don't understand your point. I'm talking about reducing the overall amount of energy used and emissions. I am saying that 20 people moving around on a diesel powered bus will use more energy and produce more emissions than 20 people on an electrically powered trolley bus. Therefore, trolleybuses are cleaner.

What you are saying is that a coal fired power station will produce more emissions than say a diesel bus over its lifetime. Is that not obvious?
Don't you just love it when a thread goes off topic :roll:

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Don't you just love it when a thread goes off topic :roll:

Sorry off topic. My thoughts on fuel price hikes are limited really. They don't effect me and if they did I would accept that perhaps our dependency on fuel is too great and look to means of reducing my own.

It will irritate me if the protesters get in my way, but they have every right to protest so I shall not attempt to stop them.

After the last protest, the Government brought in a raft of measures to stop similar thing happening again - laws about army driving the lorries, stock piling of oil so we dont run short again etc etc.

We have lent the Americans a load of oil this week though so maybe the stockpile is not so great.

I hope the strikes are succesful because the current price at the pumps is ridiculous. However, I doubt the government will cut fuel duty. The best they will do is not raise it for a while.

Longer term, it really is time to start fine tuning and introducing the technology that exists to run cars using hydrogen. This technology would save natural resources, stop our dependence on Middle Eastern dictatorships, reduce pollution drastically and hopefully save the consumer money.

Originally posted by serapis
How about putting tax on aviation fuel? They can reap the tax from there.

This would put the cost of your cheap flights to Europe up, but that’s hardly a prime requisite compared to getting to work or old people being able to go to the local supermarket.

Thank you serapis for worrying about us old 'uns :D

just been reading this http://www.rense.com/general67/PRICE.HTM

dont know if its true, or not

Originally posted by depoix
just been reading this http://www.rense.com/general67/PRICE.HTM

dont know if its true, or not

What a rant! :o No, I don't think it's true at all. For one thing the facts are wrong - the problems in the gulf states of the US aren't due to oil rigs but to damage done to the refineries and pipelines.

And exploration for oil goes on all the time and they find it all the time but it isn't always profitable to get at every available source; they cap it off for the time when technology makes it easier to get at.

Originally posted by depoix
just been reading this http://www.rense.com/general67/PRICE.HTM

dont know if its true, or not

This is similar to something the The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights (FTCR) has been looking in to. They have three internal memos.

The story is here...

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Group_Internal_memos_show_oil_companies_limited_re fineries_to_drive_up__0907.html

The MEMOS are here.

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/fs/



-- An internal 1996 memorandum from Mobil demonstrates the oil company's successful strategies to keep smaller refiner Powerine from reopening its California refinery. The document makes it clear that much of the hardships created by California's regulations governing refineries came at the urging of the major oil companies and not the environmental organizations blamed by the industry. The other alternative plan discussed in the event Powerine did open the refinery was "....buying all their avails and marketing it ourselves" to insure the lower price fuel didn't get into the market.

-- An internal Chevron memo states; "A senior energy analyst at the recent API convention warned that if the US petroleum industry doesn't reduce its refining capacity it will never see any substantial increase in refinery margins."

-- The Texaco memo disclosed how the industry believed in the mid-1990s that "the most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus of refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. (The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry.) Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline. One example of a significant event would be the elimination of mandates for oxygenate addition to gasoline. Given a choice, oxygenate usage would go down, and gasoline supplies would go down accordingly. (Much effort is being exerted to see this happen in the Pacific Northwest.)" As a result of such pressure, Washington State eliminated the ethanol mandate - requiring greater quantities of refined supply to fill the gasoline volume occupied by ethanol.

Originally posted by Mathom
Yes, it isn't on actual fuel, but it is levied on the passenger - I can't remember the exact amount but I think it was something like £30 per person for passing through a UK airport?


This £30 levy charge made by the likes of BA on long haul flights is not a tax made by the UK government. This is just a levy to make up for higher fuel costs. The UK DOES NOT tax aviation fuel.

Roll on the fuel protests....

I was in Cardigan, Wales in 2000 when the last fuel protest was on.

I had to get my parents to drive down with some jerry cans all the way from Sheffield so we could keep the minibus moving for the disabled kids to go to school.

Not a nice experience so Im garaging my car this weekend and using alternative transport arrangements for a while.

Originally posted by Skatiechik
Roll on the fuel protests....

Yeh,,,,bring em on.

I hope this time they dont crumble though,stand their ground and show the government that the people of this country are sick of being shat on and we wont stand it any longer.


Sad fact is,they will crumble and we will all be paying the over priced cost of fuel.

Why?...because thats the way we are,moan for a bit then just get on with it,,the government know this and will do nothing.
we are ripped off everyday of our lives,every corner we turn there is someone waiting to stiff you for your hard earned cash.
Be it the council,government,shops,public transport ect.......

This will always be the case,because we allow it to happen.

Originally posted by tango2
Yeh,,,,bring em on.



Yeah, you've already probably filled-up your car so it won't effect you.

It was the non-drivers who suffered most last time, thats why it crumbled, ambulances ran out of petrol, fire engines ran out of petrol, old people were stranded at home, kids couldn't get to school, while the hard done by motorists just drove round moaning about how terrible it all is.

I think there is something rather frightening about this sort of thing. It is not disimilar to when the unions had the power to close down the country. Everyone has something the want (cheaper fuel, more pay whatever) but when their actiopns effect the nation as a whole it is quite sinister.

Originally posted by tango2
Yeh,,,,bring em on.

I hope this time they dont crumble though,stand their ground and show the government that the people of this country are sick of being shat on and we wont stand it any longer.

Who is "we"?

I suggest you speak for yourself, because you don't speak for me, or indeed many people on this Forum by the looks of things. The fuel protests are idiotic and I hope the authorities ensure the rule of law is upheld.

Originally posted by Greenback
Who is "we"?

I suggest you speak for yourself, because you don't speak for me, or indeed many people on this Forum by the looks of things. The fuel protests are idiotic and I hope the authorities ensure the rule of law is upheld.

And many others are in complete agreement with him.

The fuel protests are a good idea and will help EVEYONE if they work. Remember your food, cloths etc are moved around the country by road and would de considerably cheaper if we weren’t paying 360% tax on fuel!

Stop whining about a little bit of inconvenience for the good of the greater population.

Originally posted by serapis
And many others are in complete agreement with him.

The fuel protests are a good idea and will help EVEYONE if they work. Remember your food, cloths etc are moved around the country by road and would de considerably cheaper if we weren’t paying 360% tax on fuel!

Stop whining about a little bit of inconvenience for the good of the greater population.

I don't think it is for the good of the greater population. I said earlier that I believe the protests should be allowed as anyone has the right to protest, but I do not agree with the reasons behind it at all. Afterall, the price hikes are not as a result of tax increases, they result from barrel prices going up due to various economic factors. If it were to happen that oil supplies were to become suddenly scarce - by a natural disaster etc, this country, the western world, would come to a grinding halt. This dependency we have on oil is clear from the last protests and something we shouldn't ignore.

If very expensive oil makes people, the government, whoever start to turn to other means of powering there vehicles etc then lets see the prices doubled!

Originally posted by serapis
And many others are in complete agreement with him.

The fuel protests are a good idea and will help EVEYONE if they work. Remember your food, cloths etc are moved around the country by road and would de considerably cheaper if we weren’t paying 360% tax on fuel!

Stop whining about a little bit of inconvenience for the good of the greater population.

Make no mistake: you will pay this money one way or another. If the government was to remove tax on fuel the deficit would be found elsewhere. You know, food, cloths etc.

Also, it's more than a little bit of inconvenience – it stops many people moving about freely in order to earn a living, whether they happen to agree the incredibly hypocritical farmers' views on where the tax burden is placed or not.

That isn't on: it's not democratic, and it's not just.

Originally posted by tango2
Yeh,,,,bring em on.

I hope this time they dont crumble though,stand their ground and show the government that the people of this country are sick of being shat on and we wont stand it any longer.


Last time around they had to give up the protest because they were rapidly losing what public support they had. The papers and the news were filled with stories of hospitals struggling for staff, schools being closed, shelves being emptied, ambulances and fire engines being stopped, people losing their jobs etc.

I've already said that any protest of that sort would be entirely futile. Government spending policy is not changed overnight.

We now pay far less in fuel tax than at any time since the early 1970's. And to protest about the rising prices right now may be perceived as a little bit sick and selfish seeing as they have sharply risen after the destruction that has been wreaked on the southern USA.

Originally posted by Greenback
Make no mistake: you will pay this money one way or another. If the government was to remove tax on fuel the deficit would be found elsewhere. You know, food, cloths etc.


But the government will have budgeted for the amount the tax they were going to get when the price was about 80 p per litre; now it's gone up to nearly £1 they will be raking in a large surplus amount. I think it's this amount that people want returned to them: if the government reduced the duty so that the price went back down to 80p, then everyone would probably be (relatively) happy.

if it happens the protest will fall on its a**e.
to bring uk fuel tax in line with other countries you will have to pay tax elsewhere, just like the rest of the EU do.
i own 4 cars & have to insure them,tax them & keep them full of fuel, however i think that the users should pay.
the main instigators behind the protest will show no benefit from it and half of them don't suffer as things are.
so why bother?

I'm not sure I understand why the government charge tax on fuel as a percentage rather than as a fixed amount as they do with alcohol duty (which is calculated as a fixed amount per hectolitre depending on the type and strength of the alcohol).

So if we were paying, say, 50p tax per litre, regardless of the overall price of that litre wouldn't the protesters be happy? :confused:

Originally posted by Mathom
We now pay far less in fuel tax than at any time since the early 1970's. And to protest about the rising prices right now may be perceived as a little bit sick and selfish seeing as they have sharply risen after the destruction that has been wreaked on the southern USA.

1) The tax is a percentage, so when the cost of fuel in the 70's was what ever it was, probably close to 10p per litre then the tax burden would indeed be lower, therefore the tax coming from fuel now is massively over proportioned compared to other taxes!

2) I’ve already said this once but here goes again. The cost of Brent Crude is LOWER now than it was in mid August BEFORE hurricane Katrina so the price hikes are not attributed to that disaster!

the fuel prices are supply & demand.
with the emrging economies in china & india any reserve production has now been surpassed. the refineries are almost supplying "just in time". allegedly the days of extra capacity in the OPEC countries does not exist.
any further demand on fuel will keep putting the prices up.
it happened with steel 2003/2004 because of demand in china who will pay the price for it.

i'm all for a fuel protest bring it on.

6am Wednesday - bring whistles

Originally posted by ian2965
i'm all for a fuel protest bring it on.

A valuable contribution to the discussion.

:rolleyes:

Why bother?

I can well understand the anger at the price of petrol,but I dont think this protest will solve anything in the long term and after all this IS about the long term in the end.
Even if the goverment give in and lower the tax it will still have to be found from another sourse so everyone will still have to cough up.
Whats needed is for OPEC to try to increase output to help short term and then for the industrialised countries to realise this is a finite resourse and for alternatives to be found as soon as poss to ease the situation.
And we also need to alter our lifestyle in order to reduce the need for oil,this is long term stuff here it wont happen overnight so we had better get used to high prices for the forseeable future.

Originally posted by nick2
Eventually we will be able to dump the plutonium somewhere out of the way, like the moon :)

Or Leeds.

Originally posted by Internetowl
6am Wednesday - bring whistles

Shall I bring my tambourine?

Originally posted by Greenback
A valuable contribution to the discussion.

:rolleyes:

Why bother?

He's giving his opinion which he is fully entitled too albeit contrary to yours and by doing so making sure people don’t think that everyone on here is against the protest!

There is only one reason why we are referred to as Treasure Island, and that’s because we just take it. At last people are starting to stand-up for their views and not just bending over and taking it up the jacksy!

Quoted From:- http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm

UK has the worst transport system in Europe with most roads under serious stress and 25% with traffic jams. Why - because there is no viable alternative due to a serious lack of investment for decades. £36 billion in fuel and road tax and the Government re-invested only £6 billion in the transport systems; in 2001/2 it was even less. Then again the Rail System was re-nationalised for nothing, most of what's left of the UK industry has been allowed to rot and the rest has been sold abroad. A real caring government this one is.

Originally posted by royjames
I can well understand the anger at the price of petrol,but I dont think this protest will solve anything in the long term and after all this IS about the long term in the end.
Even if the goverment give in and lower the tax it will still have to be found from another sourse so everyone will still have to cough up.

Thats why we should TAX aviation fuel!

Fair enough to give an opinion, but I would have thought an indication of exactly why he/she is "all for a fuel protest" would be useful. Then again, that would involve thinking about the issues - and once you do that, you realise that a fuel protest is a stupid idea.

It's been said many times but it appears it doesn't seem to be getting through. Fuel tax is not intended to only be spent on the roads. Without it we'd end up paying extra taxes in other areas, just as in the rest of Europe.

You do know it was the Tories who brought in the fuel tax escalator in the first place, do you not?

Royjames is pretty much spot-on on this one.

I don't know what would happen in UK if the government dropped the tax by a few pennies, but I know what happened when the State of Connecticut dropped its tax by 4 cents. The oil companies immediately put their price up 4 cents. I feel sure that would likely happen over there too.
Someday there'll be an alternative to the greedy, rapacious oil industry as a real alternative is found, but I doubt in my lifetime.

Originally posted by nick2
Eventually we will be able to dump the plutonium somewhere out of the way, like the moon :) Not until they get rocketry into orbit pinned down to a fine art without the level of calamity faced on every current space shuttle expedition.

Still, I do see us all running round in electric cars 10-15 years from now, personally. If an amature mechanic can knock up a 50mph 100 mile range for $2000 using conventional batterys this year, then imagine what a big brand manufacturer will be able to make for £10K in 5 years. 75+mph and 200+ mile range no problem.

The alternatives to car transport in Sheffield, the buses, are private companies, and the less that people use them the less buses and routes there will be. So we know what to do, start using them more, and then there will be more of them.

I'm sorry to say that most car journeys in Sheffield could probably be replaced with either car sharing or getting the bus. It entirely bypasses the problem of busy roads, car parking and the shocking price of petrol. Perhaps that is the real, viable alternative to fuel protests.

I have to act Devil's Advocate and wonder how many people say 'bring it on' about fuel protestors and said that the G8 protestors were 'scum'?

The Sickleholme service Station in Bamford is selling unleaded at 101.9p a litre.

Never thought I'd see the day.:shakes:

tsk, tsk.

The garage in Bradwell, nr Castleton, had unleaded at 104.9 last week......:gag:

Originally posted by em3978
Morrisons at Ecclesfield is still 92.9 for unleaded!!!!!
passed texaco at ecclesall road yesterday at 99.9...eekk!! glad i waited til ecclesfield!!!

How about us having a permanent thread here on the Forum that points members towards the least expensive gas in Sheffield.

You never know, petrol companies, garage owners, etc, might get worried that we'll all head in one direction to fill up. Wow! We might even start a price-cutting war.

Spartacus,

Already have a site running just for that (see sig). The problem is that it needs volunteers to email the prices 2/3 times a week, and this is where I am having problems.


On a side note the site did get a mention on Real Radio (Chris Jones) last night after I emailed him as they where asking people to text in the cheapest / dearest prices in the area. :)

Hi, Slimboyfat.

Yeah, I caught your site. Incidentally, I've just emailed you to update the Meadowhall Sainsbury garage. Thankfully it's still @ 94.9p

I'm not trying to steal your thunder it's just that some members might not know about your site. However, most members should be easily alerted to a permanent Forum thread on gas prices.

The object of both sites would be to kerb the greedy petrol companies who, in my opinion, are exploiting the current global position.

Last year BP, Shell, Esso, etc announced record profits. The reason given was that the profits had come about because of the, then, rising prices. I believe that their drive to beat that record is helping to force up today's oil prices.

Spartacus,

Wasn't trying to say you where "trying to steal my thunder", sorry if it came across that way.

Just trying to state a problem that might occur with a thread like that.

Thinking about it again I have come up with another potential problem is that people would have to trail through the last several pages to work out the cheapest prices.

Originally posted by Mo
have a road system that makes ours look prehistoric. ;)

And they're all "peage"

Originally posted by SlimboyFat
Spartacus,

Wasn't trying to say you where "trying to steal my thunder", sorry if it came across that way.

Just trying to state a problem that might occur with a thread like that.

Thinking about it again I have come up with another potential problem is that people would have to trail through the last several pages to work out the cheapest prices.

No worries, SlimboyFat. What I'm after doing is showing the petrol companies that they cannot get away with 'highway robbery' (forgive the pun). How it's done isn't important, just that IT IS done.

It looks like the government is going to do its usual trick to stop the protests by freezing duty on petrol and diesel.

Originally posted by Trickle
Not until they get rocketry into orbit pinned down to a fine art without the level of calamity faced on every current space shuttle expedition.

I was thinking we could just shoot it at the moon using a non-manned missile kind of thing, we have loads of missiles laying about not being used.

Originally posted by nick2
I was thinking we could just shoot it at the moon using a non-manned missile kind of thing, we have loads of missiles laying about not being used.

What if the missile explodes in mid-air, scattering its radioactive payload in the atmosphere?

Or what if it veers off-course during flight and crashes back to earth?

You haven't thought this through, have you :nono:

Dumping it in Leeds is by far the best and safest option :)

Originally posted by Abdul
What if the missile explodes in mid-air, scattering its radioactive payload in the atmosphere?

Or what if it veers off-course during flight and crashes back to earth?

You haven't thought this through, have you :nono:

Dumping it in Leeds is by far the best and safest option :)

Nah, we should just scoop out Wales and then fill in with radio active waste, seal it with a lead covering and then tarmac over the top. We could then use it as a national car park :clap:

Originally posted by serapis
Nah, we should just scoop out Wales and then fill in with radio active waste, seal it with a lead covering and then tarmac over the top. We could then use it as a national car park :clap:

Love the car park idea, but where would you put the soil?

Besides, parts of Wales are already 60,000ft above sea level, thanks to all those slate hills :loopy:

Originally posted by Abdul
What if the missile explodes in mid-air, scattering its radioactive payload in the atmosphere?

Or what if it veers off-course during flight and crashes back to earth?


I never said there wouldn't be risks.

Originally posted by Abdul
Love the car park idea, but where would you put the soil?

Besides, parts of Wales are already 60,000ft above sea level, thanks to all those slate hills :loopy:

We could use it all to build a massive mountain in the middle of the country .. then we can all go skiing all year round and not have to give our money to the likes of the French!

Or we could use the soil to raise the level of the county a few metres. Then when all this global warming lark kicks in, we will be high a dry!

Perfect .. lets get started. I’m off to hire a JCB and then off to Aberystwyth!

Originally posted by Greenback
In the event of such action, I hope the police use their powers to deal with these 'protestors' effectively.

Just a thought: perhaps the government could remove all tax from petrol, and introduce a tax on stupidity instead? That would really give these 'protestors' something to protest about - talk about hitting them where it hurts...
democracy in action friend everyone of us has a right of free speach even when we may not agree even people like griffen bnp

Originally posted by Horatio
democracy in action friend everyone of us has a right of free speach even when we may not agree even people like griffen bnp

Democracy in action? Give me a break. It's a hideously hypocritical loony fringe group acting illegally.

Legitimate protest is fine. Blocking refineries and the Queen's highways is thuggish and anti-democratic.

Does anyone know what's happening about this? I keep hearing different news on this.

Apparently yesterday the pumps were packed with people panic filling up the tanks..

Anybody in the know?

Think they are due to start on Wednesday.

There's more on this thread. (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58459&highlight=fuel+protests)

[MOD NOTE] threads merged.

Originally posted by Hadron
I was in Cardigan, Wales in 2000 when the last fuel protest was on.

I had to get my parents to drive down with some jerry cans all the way from Sheffield so we could keep the minibus moving for the disabled kids to go to school.

Not a nice experience so Im garaging my car this weekend and using alternative transport arrangements for a while.

I wondered when anyone would mention the effects of this on disabled people.

I'm housebound without someone with a car to take me out. I would dearly love to save the earth by walking to the shops and work, but it's not an option available to me.

Although i'm not looking forward to the shortages a blockade would bring, i've been effectively trapped at home anyway because I can't afford the petrol.. <shrugs> So roll on the protest and lets hope it doesn't have to last too long.
Keryn

equally Sheffield Community transport are going to put up their prices due to the cost of fuel...so the poorest and the needy suffer at the hands of the greedy yet again...

Called in at Asda for a curry takeout this lunchtime and couldn't get out of the car park for cars queuing for petrol. I didn't see how much it was selling at but it was hectic. I filled up down the road for 96.4p litre then saw it further on for 94.6p. Hope it lasts me a couple of weeks!

currently where is the most expensive and cheapest in sheffield?

Have a look here (http://www.ckery.co.uk/) :thumbsup:

http://www.ckery.co.uk/
hope this helps:D

I was just going to ask that question :D