Why is it that I spend all this time on SEO for my site and constantly add things to it but never see anything i results... My traffic is still really low and conversion is poor, yet when I search for Spy Pens on Google all the sites that appear are all very basic with not a lot of text.

I've started your own question in it's own thread so it doesn't take the other thread off topic about Karis' website question.

All the sites on google page 1 for spey pens are all optimised - yours isn't. There is one company who has obviously been very smart given they are dominating page 1 under various guises for the same products without appearing to replicate the content. They all have reasonable amount of text on the page so not sue where you were looking??

As indizine says it looks like all the first page results are the same company. They've all got all the keywords in their domain names, higher pagerank & more links to their sites than you.

In short, they're doing a much better seo job than you, at the moment.

However, I'd say they're waiting to be punished for spamming google with so many similar links.

You'll also notice that results from youtube & google shopping are close to the top of that page. So make sure that all your items are listed on google shopping & make some youtube videos. Google 'Places' (formally local business center) results are also shown before a lot of searches that include a place name.

You should use the webmaster tool from google which will tell you not to replicate meta descriptions for all your pages. You say you have spent time doing SEO and I would say not.

If you want serious results then free shopping cart software isnt going to make you money. There is a reason its free.

There is some optimisation done, but by the looks of the competitor analysis on Google Adwords its a very competitive term. The sites with spy pen in the domain name will always have an advantage over a site that doesn't. In fact, spy pen doesn't appear in your URL until the 3rd "folder" deep.

Spy pens and spy watches are easy phrases to rank for, spy gadets is most likely out of the OPs reach (with regards what needs spending to get to Google page 1, and spy gadgets online isn't worth chasing for.

If you want serious results then free shopping cart software isnt going to make you money. There is a reason its free.

Don't agree with that. Magento is a great shopping cart. Big sites such as HMV use Magento. Wordpress is also free, is that no good either?? hmmm

I'm aware that sites with Spy Pens in the domain has the advantage and that Spy Gadgets is a competitive name. In fact I think I did pretty well getting the domain spygadgetsonline.co.uk but I would of though I was worthy of being ranked higher than some of the sites, even if it was on page 2 or 3....or 4.

I agree, open source ('free') ecommerce solutions are not rubbish but it depends if they have been set up correctly. Any webiste can perform poorly if not created or the software not set up correctly to maximise it's performance.

If you do the right things, you will get ranked - you can't not.

That's fair enough. I've more or less given up on trying to improve my SEO performance. I just don't seem to get anywhere, I'm going to keep adding content and just go for the long run...

re your search term; I would not search for anything by adding "online"...I'm on line and I know it (hope that makes sense?)

You must NOT give up on SEO, as the only place people will buy your sort of stuff is on line.

Buy SEO For Dummies, read it and implement what it recommends, it is our bible for SEO for us and our customers.

Alternatively get someone in to help sort things out...keep the faith and the best of luck

Cheers for that, I will keep reading SEO for dummies.

I trying to push Spy Gadgets, not the "Online" bit. That's just there because I wanted SpyGadgets in the domain and obviously it wasn't available but I hear your point.

I don't really know anybody else I can actually talk over the site with about SEO, I'm on my own and it can get very frustrating. I'm trying to build links but failing miserably with that. I'll keep at it.

That's all you can do when you're trying to DIY, just read and learn, practice and tweak.

...and read and learn and practice and tweak (I do this every day...in all aspects of my business...I'd add listen too :))

Curiously enough I regularly get pestered by people trying to get me to buy their "SEO services". Strangely enough only for my sites that are already on 1st page of Google for the search terms I have worked on (and competitive ones at that!)!

Take a look at how john lewis is starting to leverage content. You want to buy a coffee machine or a BBQ, so you go to johnlewis and read all the clear advice and guidance on the topic, features to look for etc. This improves engagement with you as a buyer and also delivers some pretty stunning results in the Google rankings. Type in 'coffee machine' in Google and see what comes up first!

The key to successful online business is effective offline marketing. Relying on people's searches whether you have paid an SEO or not will only work if you are a big player competing on price. That is why internet shopping is dominated by big players. Its a jungle and the big animals will eat it all up.

looking at your site it's no wonder your not appearing high for say the term 'spy pens' just looking at your page for spy pens, i'd have done your keyword meta tag, h1, h2, content, layout etc all different, i wouldnt expect to appear high at all with how your site is at the moment.

But as lot have said: read, trail and error, learn

In fact I think I did pretty well getting the domain spygadgetsonline.co.uk but I would of though I was worthy of being ranked higher than some of the sites, even if it was on page 2 or 3....or 4.

Trouble is, nobody would use the term "spy gadgets online" in Google.

FYI Google ignores hyphens in search terms and domain names. The domain name www.spy-pen.co.uk is up for sale...might be worth finding out what they want for it.

One reason why a lot of people are successful with SEO is because the majority don't do SEO or they do it incorrectly; either way, they get no or poor results. So whilstever people refuse to change their keywordsdespite hard facts being provided, there will always be the competitors taking their larger slice of the available SEO cake. Part of my keyword research is looking at the compeitors - all those on Google page 1 for a specific keyword - and seeing which ones are not fully optimised (and other factors considered) which means they can be overtaken.

keyword research is very important, the adwords keyword tool is useful for that, it can tell you the search volume for each keyword & give you ideas for new keywords to optimise for. once you've seen which are the most popular keywords for your niche, then you can find out which of those you might have a reasonable chance of getting to page 1 on. It's worth doing a cheap/short adwords campaign just for the help it gives you with keyword research. You can use it without running a campaign, but the results aren't quite as clever - https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal

try to change your SEO person

try to change your SEO person

Read the original post - the OP is doing it themselves.

Why is it that I spend all this time on SEO for my site and constantly add things to it but never see anything i results... My traffic is still really low and conversion is poor, yet when I search for Spy Pens on Google all the sites that appear are all very basic with not a lot of text.

You really need to read and understand how google works

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35291

The page ranking systems is not based on the content of webpages.

Or how you set them up.

Read and learn googles own documentation, not how you 'think' SEO works.

Its all based on links from ranked sites etc.

Google#s algorithm's are complicated and get tweaked regularly. If you read all of googles recommendations, the one thing they say is most important is content and well structured pages. One-way links from pages with high pagerank are important too, but not the be all and end all.

Read the original post - the OP is doing it themselves.

maybe thats why they need to change the person then ;)

longer & more specific keywords tend to be easier to optimise for & can produce good results. you'll also get a higher conversion ratio for more specific keywords than for more general ones. people searching for broader terms might be more interested in getting information, rather than buying your products.

you need patience & lots of persistence to be successful at seo. it's competitive too, your efforts wont make any real difference if your competition for those keywords is doing more effective seo. getting on the first page for useful keywords can be very valuable, but until you do that, it's worthless.

You really need to read and understand how google works

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35291

The page ranking systems is not based on the content of webpages.

Or how you set them up.

Read and learn googles own documentation, not how you 'think' SEO works.

Its all based on links from ranked sites etc.

Pagerank is just one of many factors that influence search engine result pages. It's based on the number of links to your site & the pagerank of the pages that link to you. It's still one of the most important parts of seo, but other factors can have a bigger effect.

The content of the web site & how it's set up has a huge role, it's more important than 'Pagerank'. The content of the pages that link to yours, the pages you link to & the link text are other factors.

You need both on-site & off-site optimisation. A high Pagerank site wont rank highly for searches that the site doesn't contain any keywords for (that a search engine can find). The best coded site with the best content is nothing to the search engines if nobody links to it.

Pagerank is just one of many factors that influence search engine result pages. It's based on the number of links to your site & the pagerank of the pages that link to you. It's still one of the most important parts of seo, but other factors can have a bigger effect.

The content of the web site & how it's set up has a huge role, it's more important than 'Pagerank'.

Nope, Not true at all.

Links are far, far more important, especially from highly ranked websites.

The highter the ranking of websites, that link to your website, the higher placed your site will be in google, its the basis of googles search.

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66356

And 1st make sure you have actually registered your site with google......

http://www.google.com/addurl/?continue=/addurl

links and PageRank are all about - and only about - relevance and quality.

And 1st make sure you have actually registered your site with google......

http://www.google.com/addurl/?continue=/addurl
Seriously? Google will find your site, all that does is it *may* cause a crawl to visit your site sooner.

Links are far, far more important, especially from highly ranked websites.

The highter the ranking of websites, that link to your website, the higher placed your site will be in google, its the basis of googles search.

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66356


Your site's ranking in Google search results is partly based on analysis of those sites that link to you.

On the right hand side of this page: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/topic.py?topic=19494 look for the link to a doc google kindly provide with advice on SEO.

Some more stuff from Google about SEO and importance of content:
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35769

Links are important, or course they are, but they are certainly not the only or even the main thing.

Google think of what is important to a user.

1. Who else rates the page and how important is the site linking to you in terms of the search term; the more relevant the link the more important the link (the inbound link). It's like, if I recommend a plumber to someone, what do I know about plumbing and who is good and who is bad...the recommendation has little value. If I recommend a sub contract rapid prototyping company, the recommendation has more value because this is the industry I work in.
2. Content; it must be relevant and read well. What is the point in me reading a book about what is new in plumbing? Very little. But content about what is new in rapid prototyping is important

These are the two main things which affect ranking which other contributors have highlighted...just thought I'd put it in laymen terms :)

I disagree abut links not being the main thing.

I could have lots of high ranking links to one of my sites. But if the content on my site is naff/non-existant those links mean diddly.

EDIT: by decent content I include not only the text but the SEO efforts on the page(s)

That is why links aren't the be all and end all. Content first, links will come.

I guess it depends which angle you are seeing it from. Yes of course people wont link unless there is something worth to link to, which is the content, but links are the end result of god content and a well-optimised site/page. Therefore I think we mean the same thing ultimately, just seeing it from different perspective. Google judges ultimately by link quality and relevance, which relates to the relevant content.

.... end result of god content ...
Some sort of super content? :D

Yes, we're probably agreeing. But I don't agree with the earlier comment from someone that links are the main/only thing to concern yourself with.

They are the ultimate end product is the way I see it and you have to do differnt activities to creat them. Still lots of people have different view on SEO and if what you do brings the results you need i.e. relevant traffic which converts, then keep doing more of it and keep improving it.

Please revisit your seo strategy. Moreover, how your link building is taking place? What tools you are adopting? Are you applying Social media?


Regards,

Are you aware of the exact keyword you're searching for?

Do you know how many backlinks your competitors have?

Have you looked at your competitors' title tags and url name?

That's a great place to start.

Also, use Google webmaster tools to track your progress!

Piglit is partly right. Offline advertising is critically important for most independent online retailers. However, if you do have a particular niche proposition and you develop content around that and do all the normal SEO work, then you can achieve good search rankings - particularly if you add the element of geographical location into the mix.

The other thing that independent online retailers must look at is Google Shopping.

Link value from google's POV is about relevance and vote of confidence, if you have 10 PR8 sites about Pets linking to your site which is about cars, you may get a few weeks of glory until the next update and all is lost and even penalized. If you get only one PR8 natural backlink and the site is themed, i.e about Pets as well, so long as the link is always there and the voter site (the site from which the backlink originates) is a well established authority site, your site will eventually gain higher rank on the SERPs, hence also the actual PR. Few years ago, I conducted an experiment after few arguments on Webmasterworld about backlinks importance with like-minded SEO veterans there, I basically linked from one of my sites which was PR8 to totally irrelevant site of a friend of mine, three months later, his site jumped from PR5 to PR6 and climbed to the top of the SERPs, that lasted few weeks, then plunged to page 3/4 for its main keywords, months later PR decreased to PR3 with the link still there. I removed the link and his PR changed to PR4 weeks later.

After the Google MayDay update, SEO is somewhat different, it relies on freshness, user voting power and content relevance a lot more than used to, their algo and how they rate sites has changed, but backlink relevance is still one of the corner stones in addition to the new emphasis on user "vote" and behavior, that means repeat visits, recommendations, bookmarking, quoting and linking to....they are apparently using experimental AI (Artificial Intelligence). In a nutshell, their mayday algo put a stop to SEO firms and webmasters in being on the driving seat, now they have to do it the google way, not their way. In a way, quite rightly so, why would a completely irrelevant site comes up tops for a search query because the page was optimized by clever clog. However, and on the other hand, SEO post mayday, if done right is more trustworthy and lasting, OK mayday is still being tweaked and there are some dints within its offerings, but in time that will be sorted out (I hope).

What website was that at PR8?

Links from other websites cannot harm your search result positions, at worst they can give no benefit. If you did see that effect, it was a coincidence. That's what Google says & I believe them, because you can't control who links to your site. If it was true then it'd be possible to easily harm competitors' search result positions.

You may see a similar effect if you get a very powerful link, then don't get so many other links from elsewhere because the site is doing so well off that link, then Google decides that your powerful link isn't so powerful, or removes it's effect totally (eg if they decide it's a 'paid link' or advert).

What website was that at PR8?

One of the sites I own and still manage, dwindled now, but still an authority site. I can PM you the link if you want, can't post it here due to forum rules!

...You may see a similar effect if you get a very powerful link, then don't get so many other links from elsewhere because the site is doing so well off that link, then Google decides that your powerful link isn't so powerful, or removes it's effect totally (eg if they decide it's a 'paid link' or advert).

That's one of the possibilities, especially before and after the Florida update!
However, organic, natural links hold a lot of power, and in some circumstances, they don't have to be themed, they just need to be natural. One lucky day, and during my usual round of sniffing out for news stories from news agencies and large companies such Microsoft, I got lucky and picked up a fresh story from the Microsoft press centre (I didn't wait for their press releases to hit my mail box which I usually do). I quickly published the story, by the end of the day close to 100,000 hits, luckily the server, though slowed to a snail's pace, could still come up with the goods. From that story alone, there were 1000s of backlinks to the news article which sent it to PR7 within weeks. Now, many of the links were from forums and small and large sites totally irrelevant to the sites audience and market sector, yet were counted by Google and other search engines as a vote of confidence and awarded the pagerank accordingly.

data capture on your site is really good try to keep away from sites that allow you to blog on google dont like these

In fact I think I did pretty well getting the domain spygadgetsonline.co.uk but I would of though I was worthy of being ranked higher than some of the sites, even if it was on page 2 or 3....or 4.

err, there's another few sites with similar names to yours and after querying whois, obviously not owned by you...

Surely that's a minus point?

Hi
Can't access your site at the moment, but I will have a look later. I take it from previous comments that you have a wordpress site, if so you need the "all in one SEO Pack" plugin it's absolutely free and you should be able to download it from your wordpress admin back office. This will help getting the right information in front of the search engine spyder bots that trawl the internet. That's a starter for ten, I'll have a look at your site later and see if I can advise more.

SEO takes a few months to kick in - are the spiders coming visiting? When was your site last indexed?