Angela Wright had a serious heart attack two months ago; she seems to have had a history of cardiovascular problems, because she'd also had a series of blood clots in her leg that required a partial amputation about 20 years ago.

Her very supportive family seems to be the pious sort. They dropped to their knees and started praying fiercely for her. Then she had another heart attack, but she didn't die, and the family prayed harder and also said 'hallelujah, the prayers are keeping her alive!"

Then there was another heart attack. More prayers, more certainty that the prayers were all that was keeping her going (ignore for the moment the fact that she's in a hospital, surrounded by doctors and nurses and monitoring equipment).

Then there was another heart attack, and another, and another. Pray, pray, pray. Pray some more. She isn't dead yet but after six heart attacks in a row it may be time to admit that no, God doesn't seem to want to stop tormenting this poor woman.

Now it's really getting ridiculous: Wright has been lying in bed for months, her heart battered and scarred, and meanwhile, more circulation problems or clots have reduced blood flow to her extremities, and her toes have turned black and are rotting. The doctors want to amputate, they need to amputate, and her husband Dwight is refusing, and is actually making a scene at the hospital — they had to bar him from the ward. Why is he refusing?

Because he wants to give his prayers more time to work (http://www.atheistmedia.com/2010/05/family-asks-doctors-to-wait-for-prayers.html).

Source: Pharyngula (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/)

Give it a rest will ya, stop trying to ram your non belief down our throats :)

Bloomdido why are you so anti religiouse ?
Whether you beleive in God or religion is of no consequence to those who find great comfort in their belief.
I am not a religious person but have a simple belief that there is a God that made us all and I have prayed for help when in dangerouse situations.
You may consider this ridiculouse and I respect your views but please respect the views of those that do have a belief.

Your need to believe enables you to continue deluding yourselves. Why am I so anti religion? I'm not reayy sure. Never had it forced on me more than anyone did in a non-faith school. I just find the whole concept ridiculous and I suppose it scares me that people believe this stuff and choose to let it influence their lives.

I suppose it scares me that people believe this stuff

Don't be afraid, just try to understand and you'll find peace.

When I saw the title I thought Bloomdido had finally found religion :)

Your need to believe enables you to continue deluding yourselves. Why am I so anti religion? I'm not reayy sure. Never had it forced on me more than anyone did in a non-faith school. I just find the whole concept ridiculous and I suppose it scares me that people believe this stuff and choose to let it influence their lives.

We are probably from the same type of background but just decided differently.
You seem to have very strong views on the subject though, I just accept what I beleive and do not let it influence my life as do those who take it to its extreme.
I agree with you that the situation in your original post is ridiculous but that is the action of a tiny percentage of extremists.

Angela Wright had a serious heart attack two months ago; she seems to have had a history of cardiovascular problems, because she'd also had a series of blood clots in her leg that required a partial amputation about 20 years ago.

Her very supportive family seems to be the pious sort. They dropped to their knees and started praying fiercely for her. Then she had another heart attack, but she didn't die, and the family prayed harder and also said 'hallelujah, the prayers are keeping her alive!"

Then there was another heart attack. More prayers, more certainty that the prayers were all that was keeping her going (ignore for the moment the fact that she's in a hospital, surrounded by doctors and nurses and monitoring equipment).

Then there was another heart attack, and another, and another. Pray, pray, pray. Pray some more. She isn't dead yet but after six heart attacks in a row it may be time to admit that no, God doesn't seem to want to stop tormenting this poor woman.

Now it's really getting ridiculous: Wright has been lying in bed for months, her heart battered and scarred, and meanwhile, more circulation problems or clots have reduced blood flow to her extremities, and her toes have turned black and are rotting. The doctors want to amputate, they need to amputate, and her husband Dwight is refusing, and is actually making a scene at the hospital — they had to bar him from the ward. Why is he refusing?

Because he wants to give his prayers more time to work (http://www.atheistmedia.com/2010/05/family-asks-doctors-to-wait-for-prayers.html).

Source: Pharyngula (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/)

Perhaps their God was hearing them wrong and thought he was being thanked for the heart attack so decided to send some more as a reward.

Isn't this the reason why the devout have such large families? To take account of the occasional delusional death?

:huh:

Isn't this the reason why the devout have such large families? To take account of the occasional delusional death?

:huh:

No I think it's down to the rhythm method :)

Isn't this the reason why the devout have such large families? To take account of the occasional delusional death?

:huh:

Could well be. Some never get near a hospital. If heaven is such a brilliant place, I wonder why they are trying to keep her here, black toes and all? Will she get new feet when she goes to heaven?

I read a few years ago of a devout christian family in America who's son suffered with diabetes. I cant quite remember the whole story, but from what i remember they refused to administer insulin, and instead resorted to prayer in order to try and cure him...he died as a result. (as i say cant remember it all, so if someone can remember it all and correct me...)

People believe what they want to. If it brings them comfort then so be it. However when it could place someone in danger and/or pain and discomfort then it becomes different. But where do you draw the line and take that decision away from an individual and go against their wishes??

Never had it forced on me more than anyone did in a non-faith school.

So why do you feel the need to force your beliefs on us?

Bloomdido, will you stop knocking on alchresearch's front door for gods sake!

:hihi:

So why do you feel the need to force your beliefs on us?

I don't have any beliefs to force on anyone. None whatsoever.

This is a forum. I am entitled to express opinions that you may not be comfortable with. If there wasn't difference of viewpoints and a bit of hearty discussion, it wouldn't be much of a forum would it?

Would you prefer that it was censored?

Bloomdido, will you stop knocking on alchresearch's front door for gods sake!

:hihi:

He doesn't live in Woodhouse any more or I could!

I read a few years ago of a devout christian family in America who's son suffered with diabetes. I cant quite remember the whole story, but from what i remember they refused to administer insulin, and instead resorted to prayer in order to try and cure him...he died as a result. (as i say cant remember it all, so if someone can remember it all and correct me...)

People believe what they want to. If it brings them comfort then so be it. However when it could place someone in danger and/or pain and discomfort then it becomes different. But where do you draw the line and take that decision away from an individual and go against their wishes??

Was it this case - the parents went to prison for second degree homicide.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/parents-in-prayer-death-jailed-1799006.html

A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seeking medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced yesterday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death.

Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for second-degree homicide in the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes.

...
Dale Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told reporters the couple continues to trust in God.


"We live by faith," he said after the sentencing. "We are completely content with what the Lord has allowed to come down, but he is not done yet."

I don't have any beliefs to force on anyone. None whatsoever.

This is a forum. I am entitled to express opinions that you may not be comfortable with. If there wasn't difference of viewpoints and a bit of hearty discussion, it wouldn't be much of a forum would it?

Would you prefer that it was censored?

If you want hearty discussion, then lets begin with the fact you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Christianity is about the inner man, the spiritual side of our nature, not that I think many people are spiritually minded, but that is their problem.

Spirituality has nothing to do with the physical and if you look at the Lord's prayer on which we can model our own prayers none of it is about the physical other than our basic needs are provided for.

Our Father, which art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done,
in earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread. (The only physical request)
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom,
the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

The stuff atheists post about Christianity is made up from their imagination and it just goes to show they haven't a clue what they are talking about. :mad:

If you want hearty discussion, then lets begin with the fact you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Fact or assertion? What is it that I don't have a clue about?


Christianity is about the inner man, the spiritual side of our nature, not that I think many people are spiritually minded, but that is their problem.

Spirituality has nothing to do with the physical and if you look at the Lord's prayer on which we can model our own prayers none of it is about the physical other than our basic needs are provided for.

Our Father, which art in heaven,
'Who is in heaven doing what?
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done,
in earth as it is in heaven.
How is it done in heaven and what is 'it'?
Give us this day our daily bread. (The only physical request)
Ok, reasonable enough. God gives everyone bread each day.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive them that trespass against us.
But we don't. We take hitchikers to court so that they can't use our paths and byways.
And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.
God made evil. He could hit the devil over the head but then there would be no competition.

For thine is the kingdom,
the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.
Oh Lordy.

The stuff atheists post about Christianity is made up from their imagination and it just goes to show they haven't a clue what they are talking about. :mad:

What a bad atheist am I. Imagination plays no role in religion does it?

Analyzing prayers leads to Bible classes you know!!

Fact or assertion? What is it that I don't have a clue about?

'Who is in heaven doing what?

How is it done in heaven and what is 'it'?

Ok, reasonable enough. God gives everyone bread each day.

But we don't. We take hitchikers to court so that they can't use our paths and byways.

God made evil. He could hit the devil over the head but then there would be no competition.

Oh Lordy.

What a bad atheist am I. Imagination plays no role in religion does it?

There would be no winners without losers, there would be no death without life, there would be no valleys without mountains, there would be no short people without tall people and there would be no 'good' exam results without there were bad exam results.

You seem to think good, winners, life, valleys, and short people can exist without their counterpart and while I respect your entitlement to hold whatever view you please I do wish atheists would stop talking about square circles, immovable rocks that move and a God that does not exist apart from in their imagination in their mind, on their lips, and in their writing. :)