With the rapid increase in gun crime and drive by shootings is it about time that British Police carried guns around with them? Would this deter gun crime or would it make it worse? Would it make you feel safer if Police carried guns?

No, it would not make me feel safer if the poice carried guns,with many more innocent civilians getting injured or killed caught in the cross fire.

A more sensible way to deal with gun crime is to make the penalty for carrying a weapon much more severe, like putting them in gaol a hundred years without parole.

My brother was assaulted by a police officer last year. The policeman was dressed in plain clothes and my brother didn't believe he was a policeman. The policeman acted aggresively and tried to force him into his car to question him, so my brother escaped his grasp and ran away from him. The policeman chased after him and wrestled him to the ground before 2 of his colleagues arrived to arrest him. Lord knows what would have happened in this situation if the policeman had been carrying a gun, my brother could have been seriously injured or even killed.

So no is my answer.

Sidla, I was going to use a scenario like that as hypothetical (sp?) example!

"No" is my answer too.

What makes it worse is that they actually charged him with assault and resisting arrest, but he was found not guilty earlier this year. The police lied through their teeth in court.

A surprising amount of police are already armed:

Certain areas of Nottingham, Manchester and probably other places now have openly armed foot patrols backed up by Armed Response Units.

Almost every UK police force has several Armed Response Vehicles which carry two MP5's and two Glocks for each officer on board.

There are also proposals to place undercover armed police on flights as an anti-terrorist measure.

My girlfriend saw armed police running around outside the Natwest bank on London road a few weeks ago.

Gun crime, ahhhh. It was only a matter of time before this disease infected us from the states. We all saw it coming but no government, Conservative or Labour drew up contingency plans. Thankfully, we have far better gun laws than many redneck states in the USA.

When I travel abroad and I see a police officer with a gun, this frightens me slightly? Does anyone share this feeling with me? Its not because I think there is a reason he is carrying that gun, its because I am overly aware of that person's ability to end my life pretty fast without me being able to do anything about it. After all we all have a fuse, no-one should be let loose with a gun, police officer or not.

Could you ask a man/woman you had never met who was carrying a gun directions to McDonalds? Uniform or not, we lose the primary objective of the police, to serve and protect the citizens.

I'm in favour of police carrying and using guns. Gun crime is already here, try wandering round Pitsmoor with your eyes open if you don't believe me.

Given the recent events about the police officer being murdered and another seriously injured; are we leaving our world respected police service open to attack?

Firearms are easy to get hold of for criminals. To be honest I'm sure if you asked about it wouldn't take you too long to come across someone who would sell you a firearm... at the right price.

Should our police service now carry firearms as standard?
I personally think they should. More and more criminals these days carry guns and other dangerous weapons and our police force only have pepper spray and batons for protection (as well as bullet proof vests). This isn't enough, not enough of a deterrant, not enough in today's society.

I know the argument of violence breeds violence and arming the police will make the criminals arm more. That's b******s IMHO. They are already armed and getting more and more armed... why? Cos it's not just the police the crim's have to worry about, it's being ripped off by other crim's. They're already armed to protect themselves from their peers (for want of a better word).

So it's not going to make one iota of difference to the criminal, but it may just save some lives in the long run... the lives of our police service. It may also act as a detterant to small time crim's too.

Anyone else care to offer an opinion on this?

There's a lot of sense in what you say but it's the police themselves who are reluctant to be armed. In the US there is some obscene number of police officers killed by their own weapons which have been wrested off them by criminals.

I can't see how arming the police would have prevented the death of that unfortunate traffic policeman. Unless of course they routinely carry their weapons in their hands when confronting erring motorists.

The police already have armed response units and police on foot are armed in particularly "difficult" areas, such as some of the estates in Nottingham.

I can't see any advantage to routinely arming all police.

I have to say no, coming from a country where the police are armed, and frankly treat EVERYONE as if they are likely to shoot them. It breeds even further distrust between the police and the community, and soon seems to degenerate into a shoot-first-ask-questions-later police culture.

I saw an interview with a policeman on tv and had to agree with his assertion that arming all police means they then become a defensive force rather than a peacekeeping one, with all the resulting problems that brings.

We have an armed response unit, and as far as I'm concerned, that's all we need. I'd hate to see the arms situation escalate here as it has in America, and I honestly believe it would if all police were armed.

I can tell you it's pretty scary being stopped for something as simple as a minor traffic offence, and being faced with a policeman with his hand on his gun and a nervous look on his face.:loopy:

Cosy:P

I have to disagree with you there Cosy.
In the states it's far easier to gain access to legal firearms.

In some states it's easier to get your hands on a gun than it is a car. It's as easy as popping into wallmart and choosing what you want.

In some states it's a right for the public to carry firearms in the street and to even shoot someone (in order to kill) if they are on your property.:loopy:

So I think personally that the UK could NEVER get into the same state as America.
Greece and Spain seem to manage with having all officers armed, and the gun crime being low. It doesn't make anything worse. But I feel it makes the police force stronger.

I would personally feel safer knowing the police had firearms. So the comment...
It breeds even further distrust between the police and the community...
...I feel wouldn't be accurate.

I'm too lazy to do so right now, but I would be interested to see some facts and figures for other countries whose police carry guns, but where the public 'don't' have easy access to them, for instance Greece and Spain. I'd like to see info like: how many deaths of suspects during arrests, stats for the # of police deaths by gun, stats for 'mistake' shootings by police. (This is a hint for someone more motivated than me to go on a research run, lol)

Some issues that have concerned me (and others) in the states are:

A growing culture of 'shoot first, ask questions later'

Emphasis on shooting to kill, rather than to wound

Certain types of people joining the police force specifically because of the power trip of carrying a gun (I had a very scary conversation with a very scary Sheffield officer that heightened this worry of mine - very glad he doesn't carry a gun)

At the moment our armed police are (hopefully) very well trained, as this is their speciality. It would be impossible to ensure that ALL of our police officers were capable of/ trained up to a similarly high degree of competence.

Escalation: illegal/unregistered guns are seemingly easy enough to get over here. Which is where escalation is possible...all the police have guns, so more criminals feel the need to carry guns. They get guns. So your average paranoid bloke/kid on the street starts thinking all the crims have guns I need guns to protect myself from them. Mr ordinary but slightly paranoid gets a gun..etc etc. It's a slippery road, in my slightly paranoid (lol)opinion.
Some members of my family carry guns in the states. Not just because it's their constitutional right (what a load of ***, btw) but to 'protect' themselves from the bad guys. So it's not as outlandish as you think. Illegal or not, many people will do what they feel thay have to in order to protect themselves.

So, I feel it is a slippery slope, as well as a bad idea. But then, my experience only comes from a country for whom guns are a way of life, so what do I know?:loopy: :D

Cosy. Possibly not making sense, but feeling fairly passionate about it in an early Friday evening sort of a way.:P

It may sound strange at first, but our Police only select officers for Firearms teams that have lots of responsibilities like marriage partners and children. They think harder about what they are doing because they might get shot themselves.

However, they shoot to "disable" which basically means "to kill". You don’t want a ****** off scrote with a loaded gun and a flesh wound! If they do shoot someone they get taken off duty and thoroughly investigated and they can/will lose their jobs if they weren’t totally justified.

That's how it should be, tho. Responsible, well-trained, specialist units.
Not every Pc Tom Dick and Harry.

I'm just relieved my loopy ramblings didn't scare everyone off contributing:D

Cosy:P

Oh and by the way it doesnt really matter what you think of the British Police..Law and order in this country ,and this is a well known fact,is the envy of every country in the world bar none

i say give them guns. puts them on the same playing field as the criminals they are trying to catch. then they can go to court and have a lame , no brainer judge give them a slap on the wrist and put them back on the streets to do more of the same.

i say give them guns. puts them on the same playing field as the criminals they are trying to catch. then they can go to court and have a lame , no brainer judge give them a slap on the wrist and put them back on the streets to do more of the same.
Ive voted no because I honestly believe that the day we arm our everyday Police officer is the day that we bow down to and drag ourselves down to the level of a police state and to cap it all even the day to day police officers are against being armed,its not your common full time time criminals that are carrying weapons its the scum we let into this country..but government statistics refuse to show that fact

Theres a saying..if you cant do the time dont do the crime,this saying emanated .not from tuppenc halfpenny wannabes who think that they are A number one but from true well respected hard nosed villains.you will find that the real hard cases dont moan when sussed by the Police its only the two bit losers who actually moan

I’m not hard core criminal. Yes I’ve done time once in my whole life! Who hasn’t been sent down for speeding or killing a child on the roads and all they get is slap on the hand, now that sickens me.:rant::rant:

I’ve done criminal damage wow big deal, haven’t done it before or after only once. But how often does the same person speed down around that says 30MPH!

Gun crime, ahhhh. It was only a matter of time before this disease infected us from the states. We all saw it coming but no government, Conservative or Labour drew up contingency plans. Thankfully, we have far better gun laws than many redneck states in the USA.

When I travel abroad and I see a police officer with a gun, this frightens me slightly? Does anyone share this feeling with me? Its not because I think there is a reason he is carrying that gun, its because I am overly aware of that person's ability to end my life pretty fast without me being able to do anything about it. After all we all have a fuse, no-one should be let loose with a gun, police officer or not.

Could you ask a man/woman you had never met who was carrying a gun directions to McDonalds? Uniform or not, we lose the primary objective of the police, to serve and protect the citizens.

What do you mean "this disease infected us from the States?" Are you saying that American gangsters moved to Britain and started a crime wave there:hihi:

Police in in most, if not all countries in Europe have always carried guns and by that I mean the cop on the street not just plain clothed. You must be an extremely nervous kind of individual to get bowels in an uproar because there's a cop on the street carrying a holstered firearm. Police go through an intesive training in firearmss usage and safety before being allowed to carry a gun on duty and the penalties for improper use by an officer can be very severe.

Britains increase in crime has been caused by changing demographics, a collapse of family values, no discipline at home and at school, the drug trade and to a lesser extent by unemployment and hardship

Am I dreaming this thread, or is it for real? :o

You must be an extremely nervous kind of individual to get bowels in an uproar because there's a cop on the street carrying a holstered firearm.

I have to say, on my visits to the UK, my bowels were in an uproar because the cops on the street weren't carrying a firearm. It did nothing to reassure me of my safety.

For some reason I think that if police carried guns in this country gun crime would escalate. Nor would I want to run the risk of people getting accidentally shot. I don't necessarily think that NO guns should be carried, let special sections etc carry them, but your average bobby, no.

With the rapid increase in gun crime and drive by shootings is it about time that British Police carried guns around with them? Would this deter gun crime or would it make it worse? Would it make you feel safer if Police carried guns?

Please tell me this is a spoof post.

After the Jean Claude case, I'd be feeling very unsafe if the police were armed on a permanent basis!

Please tell me this is a spoof post.

After the Jean Claude case, I'd be feeling very unsafe if the police were armed on a permanent basis!

I'd feel as unsafe without the Jean Claude scenario.

My answer...No.

Should British Police Carry Guns?

Yeah why not, give them some big guns, the type that will take out the side of a house.
Why not have them drive around in tanks during winter too, just in case some cocky sod decides to throw a snowball or two.

And can we continue to live and work as equals, so that I can buy a nice big gun (the kind that will take out the side of a house) and tank from argos.

I have to say, on my visits to the UK, my bowels were in an uproar because the cops on the street weren't carrying a firearm. It did nothing to reassure me of my safety.

Yes CottonTop the days are gone forever when the unarmed British bobby rode around on a bicycle, could apprehend a criminal with the words
"Now then lad. Just come along quietly" and the criminal would most of the time do so. "Fair cop guv'nor"

The British government however still appears to be under the delusion that those days are still here and subject policemen and police women to needless danger by keeping them unarmed

I think the British police today have about the same danger level in their jobs in large Britsh cities as that of the American police in cities here

I think the British police today have about the same danger level in their jobs in large Britsh cities as that of the American police in cities here

There is no way the UK is as bad as the USA for gun crime. To think otherwise is insane:loopy:

No, it would not make me feel safer if the poice carried guns,with many more innocent civilians getting injured or killed caught in the cross fire.


halevan do you see innocents getting caught in the cross fire everytime you go abroad.....and do you feel worried everytime you travel abroad:?:

If the police in this country routinely armed themselves then this country would be no more dangerous than anywhere else in the world....apart from New Zealand.

It would appear that the British Police Force is on our side in this debate

"The Police Federation represents 129,000 officers up to the rank of chief inspector. In 1995, it polled its members on the issue.

Asked whether they wanted to see the police routinely armed, 79 per cent were firmly against. But 83 per cent said there should be an increase in the number of police officers trained in the use of firearms, so they could provide armed back-up when required."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2660885.stm

Surely they know better than most whether they'd be better off all carrying guns?

It would appear that the British Police Force is on our side in this debate

"The Police Federation represents 129,000 officers up to the rank of chief inspector. In 1995, it polled its members on the issue.

Asked whether they wanted to see the police routinely armed, 79 per cent were firmly against. But 83 per cent said there should be an increase in the number of police officers trained in the use of firearms, so they could provide armed back-up when required."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2660885.stm

Surely they know better than most whether they'd be better off all carrying guns?

Yes but that doesn't necessarily indicate that they know best.
It's perfectly natural for most police officers to rather not have the extra responsibilty that carrying a gun would create.

Not least the extra training they would all require, but also the extra pressure of not making mistakes or being allowed to let criminals escape their clutches simply because they armed themselves (The criminals) with non fire arms, being armed with fire arms means that the routine police officer would be expected to handle more situations than they might other wise face.
Like most industries they will look after their own considerations first rather than the wider implications....the Police Federation is no different.

It would appear that the British Police Force is on our side in this debate

"The Police Federation represents 129,000 officers up to the rank of chief inspector. In 1995, it polled its members on the issue.

Asked whether they wanted to see the police routinely armed, 79 per cent were firmly against. But 83 per cent said there should be an increase in the number of police officers trained in the use of firearms, so they could provide armed back-up when required."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2660885.stm

Surely they know better than most whether they'd be better off all carrying guns?


This is just whacky logic. A British policeman unarmed faces a man with a gun late at night after a foot chase. The man turns on him and threatens him with the gun, aims it at him. How long does it take to get "back up?"

The policeman may well be wounded or dead by the time the "back up" arrives

[QUOTE=sccsux;4702720]There is no way the UK is as bad as the USA for gun crime. To think otherwise is insane:loopy:[/QUOTE

Many criminals in the US carry guns. So do policemen.

Some criminals in the UK carry guns but a lot of them carry knives.
(Knife crime in the UK a major problem)

What resources does the unarmed British policeman have to disable the criminal and take the knife away? Answer none

In proportion therefore the Britsih policeman because he has no resources has a dangerous situation on his hands and the danger level just as high as his armed counterpart in the US

If I were a cop I would much rather have a gun and face off against an armed criminal than be in the position where I would be unarmed and facing some violent little punk with a knife who is ready to gut me

If I were a cop I would much rather have a gun

I'm glad to say that our Police, have a more reasonable viewpoint:thumbsup:

What resources does the unarmed British policeman have to disable the criminal and take the knife away? Answer none


Training. CS spray. Large stick. Boots. Fists. Taser.

Just because the British Government wants us to do everything the Yanks do? No, just, no! :gag: :rant:

UK Cops should NOT be armed IMO, apart from SO19 of course.

Nah, I think HP Sauce is the way forward :thumbsup:

has this

post really been going on for six years?

.

has this

post really been going on for six years?

.

It started 6 years ago, but obviously someone has decided to revive it at some recent point.

Also, arming the Police would only increase the problems IMO, you give the Police guns, the baddies go out and get bigger guns, and so on and so forth.

I'm glad to say that our Police, have a more reasonable viewpoint:thumbsup:

No doubt the UK POlice Manual for Procedures and Training for unarmed officers states that if faced with a gun or knife the police officer should then proceed to disarm the criminal using Kung Fu :hihi::hihi::hihi:

Wake up and get real! This is Britain 2009 and not Britain 1949

Police in European countries with much lower crime rates than Britain carry guns. I'll gurantee that by 2020 every police officer in Britain will be armed

Police in European countries with much lower crime rates than Britain carry guns. I'll gurantee that by 2020 every police officer in Britain will be armed

I'd take that bet no problem.

I think the answer is 'sometimes but not normally'. For most places in Britain, it would just be daft for police to carry guns.

It's possible that there will be some places in the future where it would be reasonable for policemen to carry guns as a matter of course. I don't want that future though.

]Just because the British Government wants us to do everything the Yanks do[/B]? No, just, no! :gag: :rant:

UK Cops should NOT be armed IMO, apart from SO19 of course.

Err for your information Rich,

Pratically every police force in the world carries a gun except the UK and New Zealand (There may be one or two others that don't but they are probably smaller countries).

Everytime you go abroad to Europe do you think to yourself....oh no it's like America.....I'd best head back to the UK before I get caught up in a shoot out?:confused:

I think the answer is 'sometimes but not normally'. For most places in Britain, it would just be daft for police to carry guns.

It's possible that there will be some places in the future where it would be reasonable for policemen to carry guns as a matter of course. I don't want that future though.

Why would it be daft, after all nearly every other police force in the world is routinely armed.....are they all daft then:?:

...It's possible that there will be some places in the future where it would be reasonable for policemen to carry guns as a matter of course. I don't want that future though.

Me too - for one thing there are all the mistaken shootings. Some 25 years ago my parents’ former neighbour - a British businessman working in Germany - was shot dead by German police who raided his flat in Stuttgart. They were looking for a convicted drug dealer who was on the run, and they simply got the wrong flat. There was also Stephen Waldorf in 1983 - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Waldorf

Me too - for one thing there are all the mistaken shootings. Some 25 years ago my parents’ former neighbour - a British businessman working in Germany - was shot dead by German police who raided his flat in Stuttgart. They were looking for a convicted drug dealer who was on the run, and they simply got the wrong flat. There was also Stephen Waldorf in 1983 - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Waldorf

It's tragic that mistakes are made like that, but that isn't a typical story.

How many times have you been abroad and seen a shoot out?

Is everyone else in the world, apart from the UK and New Zealand living in fear of their police forces shooting them dead by mistake:?:

It's tragic that mistakes are made like that, but that isn't a typical story.

How many times have you been abroad and seen a shoot out?

Is everyone else in the world, apart from the UK and New Zealand living in fear of their police forces shooting them dead by mistake:?:

No, but they're all a lot more likely to be shot dead than we are.

No, but they're all a lot more likely to be shot dead than we are.

If you have friends or relatives living or even just on holiday abroad, do you have sleepless nights worrying that they might get shot by police:?:

I'm off to Switzerland in a few months time......have I entertained the idea that I might get shot by the Swiss police......of course not:!:

Is everyone else in the world, apart from the UK and New Zealand living in fear of their police forces shooting them dead by mistake:?:

Don't forget Norway..;)

Personally, seeing anyone carrying a gun makes a shiver go down my spine. No - I don't want our police habitually armed - and according to post #44 on this thread, the vast majority of the police themselves agree with this.

Don't forget Norway..;)

Personally, seeing anyone carrying a gun makes a shiver go down my spine. No - I don't want our police habitually armed - and according to post #44 on this thread, the vast majority of the police themselves agree with this.[/B]

But as I pointed out, it isn't too suprising that most UK police would be reluctant to have the extra responsibility that carrying a gun would carry.

How many times have you been abroad and seen a shoot out?

Just once - in Brooklyn in 1977. I didn't actually see the shoot-out, but heard it in the street near to the apartment where I was staying.

But as I pointed out, it isn't too suprising that most UK police would be reluctant to have the extra responsibility that carrying a gun would carry.

That suits me - and this thread is all about personal opinions.

Just once - in Brooklyn in 1977. I didn't actually see the shoot-out, but heard it in the street near to the apartment where I was staying.

Exactly...... once in 32 years, a shoot out that you heard in 70's New York.

Once in 32 years is once too often for me (it's actually once in about 11 weeks, if you count the time I have spent in the USA). In 62 years of living in the UK I have never heard a police gun fired, and I don't want to.

Once in 32 years is once too often for me. In 62 years of living in the UK I have never heard a police gun fired, and I don't want to.

Aside from 70's New York, which lets face it is on the extreme side of the scale as far as police shoot outs are concerned, have you heard a gun being fired anywhere in Europe where most police forces have routinely armed police?

Well, I just know where I prefer to live.

Apart from four trips to America between 1971 and 2001 to visit relatives I haven't travelled abroad much apart from long weekends in Paris and Hamburg, and a "tulip fields" trip to the Netherlands, so I am hardly in a position to judge the situation in the rest of Europe. But I know where I prefer to live.

My point being though that everytime this debate about routinely arming police crops up, some people worry that there will be shoot outs in the street every day.
What I am saying is that is pure alarmist thinking, as I said most police forces in the world have routinely armed police and we don't see those countries having police shootouts everyday.
That is not to say that shoot outs will never occur, but let's get some proper perspective on this.

Of course, I am sure you are absolutely right - it's a question of statistics and probability. But the less guns there are around the better in my view.

Of course, I am sure you are absolutely right - it's a question of statistics and probability. But the less guns there are around the better in my view.

Fair enough,

but If every police force in the world was to disarm tommorrow, do you think the world would be any safer?

Like, I am sure, beechnut I wouldn't like to speculate on a hypothetical situation which isn't going to happen. I just think that in this country the present arrangement of having armed police at airports, outside embassies etc., and with "armed response units" on patrol is probably the best (though far from perfect) compromise.

Quite right - no part of the world is perfect, but not habitually arming police in the UK has served us as well as any comparable nation. We certainly have far fewer gun-related deaths than the USA for example.

Like, I am sure, beechnut I wouldn't like to speculate on a hypothetical situation which isn't going to happen.

Why not?

The last time I checked this whole topic of a routinely armed UK police force was also a "hypothetical situation which isn't going to happen."

Yet it didn't stop you speculating on it hillsbro.

The last time I checked this whole topic of a routinely armed UK police force was also a "hypothetical situation which isn't going to happen.

That suits me..;)

If you have friends or relatives living or even just on holiday abroad, do you have sleepless nights worrying that they might get shot by police:?:

I'm off to Switzerland in a few months time......have I entertained the idea that I might get shot by the Swiss police......of course not:!:

No I don't but the fact remains that my friends and relatives living in countries where the police are routinely armed are more likely to be shot by the police than me.

Also when I'm abroad I do actually get a bit nervous when I see police walking round with rifles strapped to their sides, like abroad or at airports and stuff. It certainly doesn't make me feel safer.

Also when I'm abroad I do actually get a bit nervous when I see police walking round with rifles strapped to their sides, like abroad or at airports and stuff. It certainly doesn't make me feel safer.

But if it were to become an everyday sight, then no doubt your nerves would subside somewhat.

Someone from Madrid for example, would not be nervous at the sight of armed police in Munich.

More guns on the streets = more deaths from guns on the streets.




This would be a bad thing.

But if it were to become an everyday sight, then no doubt your nerves would subside somewhat.

Someone from Madrid for example, would not be nervous at the sight of armed police in Munich.

They scared the life out of me when I answered the door the morning after a particularly heavy drinking session at a friends Villa in Spain not far from Gibralta.

He had a huge scarey dog that I was trying to control, with a hang over and they looked like armed stormtroopers with motorcycle helmets on and shades. They couldn't speak a word of english and my knowledge of spanish is extremely limited at the best of times, but first thing in the morning with a hangover my Spanish was likely to be nonsensical.

It was 5 mins of incoherent stand off before my friend woke up and sorted it out. Apparently they had seen an additional car in the drive to what they were used to and were just checking or something.

Anyway. No police shouldn't be armed (at least not routinely). They are damn scarey.

More guns on the streets = more deaths from guns on the streets.




This would be a bad thing.

I don't think police should routinely carry guns, as use of them could be abused, and having police visible with guns would encourage more people to carry them. However I believe that they should be employed in certain situations to diffuse the situation, where weapons are being used by criminals or in hostage situations. The persons using them need to be specialist marksman- you can't just have ordinary policeman using guns because it suits them. I feel in some violent situations the use of guns prevents deaths, however there are always going to be examples of when things go wrong.

I don't think police should routinely carry guns, as use of them could be abused, and having police visible with guns would encourage more people to carry them.

Really:?:

Do you think more people in Europe carry guns, because Europe have police with visible guns?

Yes CottonTop the days are gone forever when the unarmed British bobby rode around on a bicycle, could apprehend a criminal with the words
"Now then lad. Just come along quietly" and the criminal would most of the time do so. "Fair cop guv'nor"

The British government however still appears to be under the delusion that those days are still here and subject policemen and police women to needless danger by keeping them unarmed

I think the British police today have about the same danger level in their jobs in large Britsh cities as that of the American police in cities here

So you'd expect that there would be more fatalities per officer in the UK than the US...

From googling, for 2006 I can see that there are 840,000 police detectives and officers in the US (approx src (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/568898.html)) there were 145 officers killed in the line of duty in 2006 src (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-18-police_N.htm) - so around a 0.00017% rate.

In the UK, around 136,000 officers src (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3157138.stm) and 1 fatality src (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080717/text/80717w0019.htm) - or a rate of 0.0000074%

So the inference that officers over here are in just as much danger but are unprotected doesn't seem to completely hold up...

In the UK, around 136,000 officers src (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3157138.stm) and 1 fatality src (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080717/text/80717w0019.htm) - or a rate of 0.0000074%

So the inference that officers over here are in just as much danger but are unprotected doesn't seem to completely hold up...

Perhaps you should do the same analysis with all the other countries not just the US.

In fact it's probably safe to say that mainland Europe is more closer to Britain than the US in terms of gun culture.

So you'd expect that there would be more fatalities per officer in the UK than the US...

From googling, for 2006 I can see that there are 840,000 police detectives and officers in the US (approx src (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/568898.html)) there were 145 officers killed in the line of duty in 2006 src (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-18-police_N.htm) - so around a 0.00017% rate.

In the UK, around 136,000 officers src (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3157138.stm) and 1 fatality src (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080717/text/80717w0019.htm) - or a rate of 0.0000074%

So the inference that officers over here are in just as much danger but are unprotected doesn't seem to completely hold up...

Forgive me if I read this wrong but based on your links, the number of police officers in the UK was from 2003 but on the other link, that year would put the number killed at either 2 or 4 because the time period runs 2002-2003 or 2003-2004.

Also, in the US our number killed in the line of duty would include those killed directing traffic, as a result of traffic accidents, helicopter and plane crashes, etc. Not sure if your UK statistics include those things as well. If we could weed out all of those things, we could get a more accurate picture, I think.

No, it would not make me feel safer if the poice carried guns,with many more innocent civilians getting injured or killed caught in the cross fire.

A more sensible way to deal with gun crime is to make the penalty for carrying a weapon much more severe, like putting them in gaol a hundred years without parole.100 years! Why not just hang them then?

100 years = nothing to lose, so no reason not to fire!

Too much paranoia abour armed policemen. Just because they one day will all carry guns which I would say is pretty certain by 2020 doesn't mean that Britain's streets will be turned into Dodge City. My neighbor two doors down is a retired Los Angeles policeman. Thirty years on the force and never had to draw his gun once and statistics in that department show this is the norm rather than the exception

I've been to several European countries including the most law abiding ones, Norway, Denmark, Austria and citizens in those countries have no problem with their police being armed

Many public buildings in Paris are protected by gendarmes carrying sub machine guns and again the French dont seem to get their bowels in an uproar over it.

I've been back to Britain several times over the years. I once lived in a town there where people could walk around at 2 o'clock in the morning and not be bothered. Cant do that anymore now and many areas are no go even in daylight hours.

Police in Britain like anywhere else have the right to be protected in a changing social environment

We all sleep safer in our beds at night because of our police forces

Too much paranoia abour armed policemen. Just because they one day will all carry guns which I would say is pretty certain by 2020 doesn't mean that Britain's streets will be turned into Dodge City.


I agree with you there Harley, as soon as the topic of armed police comes up, some lose all perspective and immediately conjure up visions of US style shootouts as seen in the US cop shows that we all know and love.

I wonder how many of those same people express anquish and concern about this issue everytime they travel abroad?

Extra police all routinely armed walk the streets of popular Spanish hotspots, they are drafted in to specially protect the tourists from local criminals.
Do those that think Britain will become more dangerous with an armed police force get bothered about the presence of extra Spanish police in their holiday resorts:?:

I agree with you there Harley, as soon as the topic of armed police comes up, some lose all perspective and immeadiatly conjure up visions of US style shootouts as seen in the US cop shows that we all know and love.

I wonder how many of those same people express anquish and concern about this issue everytime they travel abroad?

Extra police all routinely armed walked the streets of popular Spanish hotspots, they are drafted in to specially protect the tourists from local criminals.
Do those that think Britain will become more dangerous with an armed police force get bothered about the presence of extra Spanish police in their holiday resorts:?:

Britons, like us here in the US are inundated with over imaginative cop shows and movies Unfortunately too many believe this is reality.

I've talked to my neighbor who I mentioned earlier about his police days.

Any policeman who uses his weapon and even draws it without firing it has to fill out reams of paperwork afterwards explaining all the "whys and "wherefores" and if there is an actual shooting involved the officer concerned is routinely suspended (with pay) pending an investigation into the circumstances.

This is the real police not Dirty Harry or Bullitt

Training. CS spray. Large stick. Boots. Fists. Taser.

All these methods involve getting close up to the person with the knife.

Not a very good scenario especially if the criminal is a dab hand with a knife

Mod: Some posts on this thread have been reported as offensive, and have now been removed. I'm confident that the thread can now remain open for discussion.