* Time-Expired *

Sorry to some but.....

When turning right at a roundabout and heading for the right hand lane. Have a look at the driver in the car to your left who may be going straight on. Once you learn the types to avoid, you either need to put your foot down and get away first or keep back as you'll learn this type goes across both lanes! :D

This rule also applies to big HGV's but that shoudl be common sense

Is it only me who has learnt just from looking at the driver you have a good idea what they are like behind the wheel??. Also when behind a car and watching it's driving behaviour i can often describe the age/sex of the driver. I get it right 8/10 times! :D

Remember if you hit something after about 10 minutes then odds are that you are gonna fail so why not pop through the Mcdonalds drive thru or drive to a field and do handbrake turns for the next 20 minutes, remember you have paid for a full test

Sorry just kiddin about the last post

Originally posted by Craig7777
Remember if you hit something after about 10 minutes then odds are that you are gonna fail so why not pop through the Mcdonalds drive thru or drive to a field and do handbrake turns for the next 20 minutes, remember you have paid for a full test

LOL. Remember to tell the Macdonalds asstinat that the examiner is paying! :D

If you are being tail gated especially at night , indicate, pull over and slow down, let the idiot pass if he wants to die by driving foolishly then don't let him take you out as well.
On motorways always be considerate to HGV's they don't like people overtaking them then once in front slowing down . Also if a lorry is wanting to pull out to overtake another particularily on hills , drop your speed slightly and flash your lights so they know you're making room for them. You'll notice most lorry drivers say thanks.
Consider taking your advanced driving test it'll teach you loadds.

For the love of God - dont sit in the outside lane of the Motorway, going exactly the same speed as the cars in the first and 2nd lanes, MOVE THE HELL BACK OVER

Being tailgated - I like to drop a gear, turn on my lights (to look like i'm braking) and accelerate. That confuses the hell out of them. :hihi:

Don't drive down the fast lane of a motorway on a motorbike at 90mph scaring cars into getting out the way, then start to pull wheelies (still at the same speed) if one of the cars won't move out your way. Goes without saying you might think, but yet...

The first think I would like to say here, mainly to older drivers, is that the left hand lane on a motorway is not called the "slow lane" It is "lane 1" and you should be in it if there is nothing to overtake.

Here are some I prepared earlier a few years ago :hihi: : -
TIPS FOR DRIVING ALONG

1 Don't drive too close to anyone who's using a mobile, Especially on a motorway or a roundabout, as they have only 30% of their regular spatial perception and are much more likely to crash into you
2 A "baby on board" sign means- " I'm stupid, please drive a little closer to read my toss sign"
3 Keep well clear of vans and trucks, especially when in a very slow convoy
4a Test your emergency breaking regularly when some tosser is driving right up your arse.
It's hilarious watching in your rear view mirror as they break heavily and veer to the left
4b Test your emergency breaking regularly When a stupid spotty pencil moustache teenager, is behind with a booming bass stereo, to indicate that he's a total wa**er, and shouldn't be driving anyway until he's at least 21 when he's grown up
5 If someone is right behind you on a motorway or driving erratically, though it's tempting to hinder them, let them past, they are going to have a smash soon, and you don't want to be taken out too
6 Always lock your doors and hide any valuables, especially when driving in a strange town
7 Never drive on a motorway with your doors locked, If you're in a crash, no one can get you out. And you can't break a car window with a shoe, from the outside. And you will most probably die there.
8 If it is raining, Always put your lights on main beam, on the motorway. Because trucks can't see unlit cars through their spray
9 Never use rear fog lights, unless it's a pea souper, 100 meters visibility is the law and it's very, very dense
10 When driving behind a car with German plates, beware that they slow down to 20 mph as they pass parked busses at home, or they receive a very heavy fine and a penalty
11 If you are driving in Europe, then don't think that you're exempt from the law, you're not. The fines are the same and licence points are too!

TRICKS FOR GETTING PEOPLE TO LET YOU INTO TRAFFIC QUEUES

1 Take your sun glasses off
2 Open your window if its sunny
3 Look directly and attentively into the face of each approaching driver
4 Leave a large gap if you are second in the queue
5 Use 100% of your attention on this task
6 If you're smoking your unlikely to be let in by non-smokers ( hide it in the ash tray until you are let in )
7 Optimistic people let in similar and more expensive vehicles
8 Pessimistic people let in similar and cheaper vehicles
9 Women don't purposefully let in anyone at all when they're tired
10 No-one lets in anyone who's using a mobile phone
11 Women drivers tend to be less attentive, which means you can easily muscle in
12 Always look happy and try to smile

TIPS FOR PARKING

1 If a bunch of kids offer to mind your car for £1, then get back in and drive at least one mile before parking again, under no account must you leave your car there with the kids, paid or not, as your window will be broken and radio gone
2 Don't worry if you are rubbish at parking at first, study it a little and you will fully understand
3 Never park the wrong way around on a high street
4 Never leave anything on the front seat, even a plastic bag, someone will break in an steal it.
5 When opening the door, keep tight hold of the handle at all times, a gust of wind can do £600+ damage to the door panel if you let go.
6 Turn your radio right down before parking near houses, or you will appear to be a right stupid selfish t### to the people you are disturbing.

Originally posted by SilentStatic
Don't drive down the fast lane of a motorway on a motorbike at 90mph scaring cars into getting out the way, then start to pull wheelies (still at the same speed) if one of the cars won't move out your way. Goes without saying you might think, but yet...

True, buy you have to ask, why is someone in the outside lane long enough to **** someone off who wishes to overtake?

First thing i do when getting on a motor way is to make sure all my car doors are unlocked, i lock them driving around town ect, but never on a motor way.... don't think i have to explain why do i ?

Don't brake while going round corners if tyou start losing it put your foot down and control it

Ladies.....don't wear stilettos in the car.....it can ruin the headlining. :heyhey:

Originally posted by poppins
First thing i do when getting on a motor way is to make sure all my car doors are unlocked, i lock them driving around town ect, but never on a motor way.... don't think i have to explain why do i ?

I totally agree Poppins, My mate was once at an incident where a car had been involved in an accident and the driver was knocked out and the doors were locked. He and another motorist were not able to break a window or get a door open to assist.

Originally posted by Craig7777
Don't brake while going round corners if tyou start losing it put your foot down and control it

Not good advice Craig. Depends upon what kind of car you are driving. Loss of traction in a corner can lead to a spin if you boot the throttle.

With a new (new to you) car, get yourself:
a bag of sand (or even some soli from the garden)
a garden cane
a bottle,
some rubber bands.

Wrap the rubber bands around the cane at regular intervals. Put the cane into the bottle. Fill up with sand and put the bottle on some level ground. Drive up to the cane and observe how close you can get before knocking it over. This will help you when you're parking if you know how close to a vehicle you can get without denting it.

Do the South Yorkshire Police still do their safe driving courses?

Join the AIM and take the advanced test.

* Time-Expired *

Indicators:

These are not repeat NOT optional extras!

Use them it helps other people (- especially those on foot attempting to cross) no end! :roll:

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
Indicators:

These are not repeat NOT optional extras!

Use them it helps other people (- especially those on foot attempting to cross) no end! :roll:

And don't forget to look out for those aligators crossing the street too !

Wear a seat belt?

Don't eat pot noodles on the motorway

Originally posted by WallBuilder
If you are being tail gated especially at night , indicate, pull over and slow down, let the idiot pass if he wants to die by driving foolishly then don't let him take you out as well.
.

Oh how I wish people would do this wallbuilder...

My pet driving hate at the minute is people on roads like the one from Middlewood - Stocksbridge. Its a 60 , and the odd curve excepted you can tan down there (unless its wet), and keep up a steady 55-60 most of the way.

UNLESS that is, you get some berk who decides 60 really means 40. Lorries and buses , fair enough, you aint built to go much faster than that and so escape my wrath. But the rest of em, grrrr. Theres nowhere to safely overtake either so you are just stuck behind them.

If it was a 40 and you were doing 40, alls well, you want to keep to the speed limit as , for the most part, do I. But 40 in a 60. Numptys

* Time-Expired *

Originally posted by poppins
And don't forget to look out for those aligators crossing the street too !

:hihi:

I onced asked for an Aligator Sandwich - and make it snappy! :rolleyes:


I'll get my coat

Originally posted by floyd77
For the love of God - dont sit in the outside lane of the Motorway, going exactly the same speed as the cars in the first and 2nd lanes, MOVE THE HELL BACK OVER

Being tailgated - I like to drop a gear, turn on my lights (to look like i'm braking) and accelerate. That confuses the hell out of them. :hihi: :clap: :clap: me too :clap:

Smokers - cars have ashtrays - use them!
Then empty them into a bin not the street, car park, countryside etc.

Mobile phone use while driving is illegal people, breaking news to some of you I know but you'll get used to it. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick

Mobile phone use while driving is illegal people, breaking news to some of you I know but you'll get used to it. :thumbsup:

I always find it ironic when its some fella in a 30 grand beamer or merc - you can tip out all the money for the car but can't shell out 30 quid for a hands free kit?????

I had found that the drivers you should always give an awful lot of room to are men, aged 65-plus who wear trilby-type hats in the car.

It's almost as if they are under some sort of alien control which forbids them to use mirrors, indicators or fourth gear and convinces them that they are the one and only users of the highway.

Their road positioning is usually all to pot and they can be extremely unpredictable, such as turning right, without any warning.

Give these people as much room as you can.

And don't get me started on those mobility scooters!

Some more tips:

1) When intending to turn into a side road on your right, please move as for over to the central line as possible. The Highway Code doesn't explain fully, but here's why. Drivers behind might then have enough room to pass you on your left, meaning traffic can flow unimpeded.

"Pass on the left? You're not supposed to do that."

Yes you are. Because the vehicle you are passing is waiting to turn right.

2) On the motorway, never start to overtake a lorry if you haven't got enough room to finish overtaking it. People behind you may get irritated at your perceived lack of progress, but it's better for someone to be annoyed at you than for a lorry to move out into your lane because you were stuck in its blind spot. It's much bigger than you - you'll lose.

3) When someone is overtaking you on the motorway, and you want to move out behind them - DON'T indicate until they're level with you! If you indicate before they've even reached you, you'll scare them as they'll think you're about to move out in front of them.

"Of course I'm not going to move out in front of them - I'm not that stupid"

But they don't know that!! There are plenty of idiots out there who WOULD.

* Time-Expired *

Originally posted by Pseudonym
Never impede the progress of 'White-Van-Man', treat such vehicles with extreme caution, especially on motorways!

They have special permission to... appear out of nowhere from behind you, exceed the speed limit by a wide margin, swap lanes without indicating and tail-gate you for miles if you get in their way... you've been warned!:D
Yeah, the lane-swapping thing annoys the hell out of me. Especially when one swapped lanes right into me, having increased speed from being behind me, and refused to admit liability for the accident. :mad:

Originally posted by SilentStatic
Don't drive down the fast lane of a motorway on a motorbike at 90mph scaring cars into getting out the way, then start to pull wheelies (still at the same speed) if one of the cars won't move out your way. Goes without saying you might think, but yet...

Ok, ok, I'll stop :(

Don't wander into my lane when your falling a sleep at the wheel like some bloke did to me today, get some sleep or don't dive dic*heads

Originally posted by Pseudonym
Never impede the progress of 'White-Van-Man', treat such vehicles with extreme caution, especially on motorways!

Similarly, never impede the progress of 'school-run-mum' (woman in a landrover) at ANY time, ever. 10 minutes ago I was heading home up the 2 lane part of Herries Road near the Northern General at the speed limit (IT'S 30 FOR ALL YOU STUPID PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT 2 LANE = MOTORWAY) and such a 'drover was bearing down on me from behind.

I upped my speed beyond the speed limit simply because she showed NO sign of slowing, and there she was, flashing lights and revving up behind me. However, one 2-foot-shuffle later and I've dropped a gear to easier maintain speed, andI have my brake lights on. The look on her face was priceless when she decided to pass me on the left just to get round this terrible driver who didn't want to break the speed limit :hihi:

(Interesting: http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/eveningchronicle/ukandworld/tm_objectid=15922594%26method=full%26siteid=50081% 26headline=school%2drun%2ddrivers%2dare%2dnamed%2d worst-name_page.html)

Most people are unaware that the speed limit for HGVs on a single carriageway national speed limit (60 for cars) is actually 40mph. These days trucks are built to keep up with cars much better, but if they're stopped they can be done for speeding from their tachographs alone. Don't get frustrated with them for holding you up and being difficult to overtake- they're only obeying the law.

Similarly, understand that HGV drivers usually (there is of course a minority of idiots who don't) try to keep a big enough space in front of the truck to allow for the fact that they take up more space getting round roundabouts (occupying both lanes) and corners, and because they take longer to stop than cars. If a truck has a large braking space in front of it, don't get in it. It's there for a reason. And if the truck's sitting across both lanes at a junction don't try to squeeze into the gap unless you don't like your bodywork or your no claims discount.

And just in case you need any more reasons not to drive into trucks- have you ever wondered what the plain orange plate on an HGV means? It covers all kinds of hazardous cargos, from hairspray to sulphuric acid that are below 0.5 tonne of cargo. Over that weight they will have specific coded plates, but even a small amount of some compounds can be pretty nasyt. Keep well clear.

Ok you are driving towards a roundabout and want to turn left, the left hand lane has a queue of about 20 cars and it looks like you have a long wait, all you have to do is go into the right hand lane that usually as no cars in, indicate right then go all the way around the roundabout and hey presto exit the lane you originally wanted, waving to all those still stuck in the queue :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Pseudonym
Never impede the progress of 'White-Van-Man', treat such vehicles with extreme caution, especially on motorways!

They have special permission to... appear out of nowhere from behind you, exceed the speed limit by a wide margin, swap lanes without indicating and tail-gate you for miles if you get in their way... you've been warned!:D Oh, someone else who's noticed that !
These van drivers drive their van as if it were a 2.5L... Driving at 100 or so on the outside lane all the way, tailgating along.

Then (as an example, exit 32) ;) drive accross both lanes and dissapear down the M18...

Van drivers, probably one of the most dangerous people around on our roads. :suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

If you're turning left onto a main road, look BOTH ways!

There may be nothing coming from the right, but there may be someone overtaking to your left and therefore on the right hand side of the road and heading for a head-on smash if you pull out. Yes farmer in tractor, this means you.:thumbsup:

Don't take it for granted that you only have to look one way on a one way St... IE Just past the Bowling place @ Handsworth... Yes I did once sit watching in amazement, as a car drove the wrong way round the one way system... :rolleyes: I look EVERYTIME now!

* Time-Expired *

If following an articulated HGV and it's slowing for a left turn don't attempt to overtake, the driver may need to take the tractor unit well out to the right to negotiate the turn. And remember when following any HGV, - if you can't see his mirrors the driver can't see you.

Originally posted by muddycoffee

7 Optimistic people let in similar and more expensive vehicles
8 Pessimistic people let in similar and cheaper vehicles


I love that advice!

When you are out on the road please bear in mind that it's not a race... (Just don't let anyone overtake you).

Here's another one :

"If you drive an open-top BMW and have a rather ugly girlfriend you don't have to stop at the zebra crossing in the B&Q carpark, even if there is someone halfway across it"

You know who you are.

Next time I'll be on the bonnet pulling you out of your seat "mate".

Originally posted by Pseudonym ... and the driver who pulls in and gives way to an oncoming vehicle when there's a gap that you could safely take a bus through... [/B]
Surely these people are (usually) also assuming that the other drivers on the road are idiots, and regardless of the space available, assuming that the oncoming traffic might go 3 feet away from the kerb and smash their wing mirror off...?

Nomme's rules of the road...

1) Treat every other road user as a complete maniac - expect them to do the unexpected.

2) Always make sure you have some money on you.

3) Remember *where* you parked the car!

Nomme

If you are that bloke with the old VW golf with the smoked rear windows, who was driving in woodseats from fraser road onto archer road last week.

Your car looks like a van with alloy wheels, it looks ***** stupid!

I'm a bit concerned about this attitude that every other driver on the road is a complete idiot :suspect:

No wonder drivers round here have no respect for each other :mad:

Never under-estimate small, 40-odd year old, lady Fiesta drivers. :cool:

Originally posted by Strix
I'm a bit concerned about this attitude that every other driver on the road is a complete idiot :suspect:

No wonder drivers round here have no respect for each other :mad:

When you have lessons to take your motorcycle test, you are taught defensive riding techniques, where, amongst other things, you assume all the other people on the road are idiots. It is a tried and tested method of safe riding and saves many people from accident and injury.

By the way It is perfectly possible to combine this method with courtesy to other drivers.

But there's a difference between assuming other drivers are unpredictable, and branding them all idiots, Muddy :(

And 'courtesy' means different things to different people too - some people think it's simply not being abusive, to others it means being considerate, seeing the whole picture, and playing a part in traffic flow ;)

Originally posted by Strix
I'm a bit concerned about this attitude that every other driver on the road is a complete idiot :suspect:

No wonder drivers round here have no respect for each other :mad:
You misunderstand, Strix...

Anyone with an ounce of common-sense treats an idiot behind a wheel with the greatest of respect, believe me! :D

As Muddy says, it's the technique of defensive driving, summed-up in a nutshell... Adopting this attitude considerably increases your chances of survival, especially for motorcyclists!

It is not advocating that you show no road-courtesy to others...

My tip for good Karma when driving my car, is to let 2 people in front for every time I expect to be let in. It makes the journey much more enjoyable, and to see people smiling and waving thanks is a pleasurable thing which brings a small amount of contentment.
If everyone does something similar traffic flows, and nobody gets frustrated. When driving in the north, you get much more of this than in London where it's every man woman and rep for his/her/itself, everybody is in too much of a hurry, everybody is bad tempered and nobody gets anywhere for a very long time.

When I'm riding my Motorcycle I similarly let people out and give way when I can, but I get this service back ten fold. People seem to always let me out and make a space for me, maybe because I am not making a racket or looking or riding like a hooligan.

Originally posted by Strix
I'm a bit concerned about this attitude that every other driver on the road is a complete idiot :suspect:

No wonder drivers round here have no respect for each other :mad:

Its one of the first things all driving instructors tell their new pupils. Always expect the unexpected, and as muddycoffee and pseudonym have both said, its an introduction to defensive driving techniques.

Are you a non-driver by any chance?

Originally posted by Strix
I'm a bit concerned about this attitude that every other driver on the road is a complete idiot :suspect:

No wonder drivers round here have no respect for each other :mad:
It's more a case of assuming every other driver is potentially a complete idiot. If you're prepared for them to be an idiot, it comes as less of a surprise if they are. You're better prepared when they do something stupid.

haven't read past page 1, but I could stop myself posting.

To the advice not to pull in and slow down after passing a lorry.
Could we add, don't do it after passing me either. I drive at a constant speed on the motorway, if you do that I will have to overtake you and you are a moron.

The advice to put your headlights on main beam in the rain. Don't be an idiot, main beam should not be used when traffic is coming the other way or you can see cars ahead of you, it dazzles people. Use dip beam, the normal headlights turned on setting.
If you didn't really mean main beam, then learn the proper terminology.
Side, dip, main.

Strix - treat them as idiots, not brand them as idiots. There's a considerable difference.

And the people who cut across the roundabout, or cut across the lanes at the end of the parkway (just before park square roundabout) should all have their cars crushed.

Originally posted by Strix
I'm a bit concerned about this attitude that every other driver on the road is a complete idiot :suspect:

No wonder drivers round here have no respect for each other :mad:

I assume that 99.9% of other drivers are not idiots, and that the remaining 0.1% are.

Therefore, not knowing other drivers personally, I must assume that the following drivers are idiots until I learn otherwise:

The driver to my left who I am passing on the motorway. - Will they be stupid enough to pull out into, or infront of, me?

The car waiting to enter the main road from my left and 50 yards ahead of me. - Will they be stupid enough to not look my way before pulling out?

The oncoming car with their right hand indicator on. - Will they be stupid enough to turn in front of me as I approach?

And a million other dodgy scenarios that only exist because a minority of drivers are idiots. Trouble is, I don't know which ones they are, so until I do, I'm afraid I'll have to assume they all might be and drive - for their safety and mine - as though they ALL are.

Originally posted by Saxon
Its one of the first things all driving instructors tell their new pupils. Always expect the unexpected, and as muddycoffee and pseudonym have both said, its an introduction to defensive driving techniques.

Are you a non-driver by any chance?

Well that would explain the standards and attitudes of some new drivers Saxon :rolleyes:

There are many different drivers who could attract the label of 'idiot', but it's surprising how it's easy to tell a driver who is
Elderly and slow
Driving a Volvo (nuff sed)
Talking to a passenger
Trying to get there before you
Actually a police car ;)

There are very few real 'idiots' out there, just people with a different agenda (although I'd happily see them have their licences removed for driving without due care :thumbsup: )

Originally posted by Strix
Well that would explain the standards and attitudes of some new drivers Saxon :rolleyes:

There are many different drivers who could attract the label of 'idiot', but it's surprising how it's easy to tell a driver who is
Elderly and slow
Driving a Volvo (nuff sed)
Talking to a passenger
Trying to get there before you
Actually a police car ;)

There are very few real 'idiots' out there, just people with a different agenda (although I'd happily see them have their licences removed for driving without due care :thumbsup: )

the point is that if you assume everyone is about to or at least may do something truly stupid with their vehicle, then you will only ever be pleasantly surprised.
If you forget and for example assume that someone will not drive into you as you pass through the B&Q car park, then you end up (as I did) making an insurance claim and having to wait for the other party to confess 6 months later, that they did indeed actually just drive into the side of you.

Originally posted by Strix
Well that would explain the standards and attitudes of some new drivers Saxon :rolleyes:
Hmmm.....not just NEW drivers it seems.....

Originally posted by Strix on 6.10.2004
Favourite manouvre? Slow down to 15mph passing some nice obstruction (no overtaking) or reaching the bottom of a hill, then drop a couple of gears and floor it! Funny, they're no longer rummaging in your boot!
Originally posted by Strix
There are very few real 'idiots' out there...........
Originally posted by Strix on 6.10.2004
That doesn't explain the higher-than-national-average stupidity out there
You really need to keep it consistent, Strix.

Cyclone has it spot on -the point is that if you assume everyone is about to or at least may do something truly stupid with their vehicle, then you will only ever be pleasantly surprised.

No-one has said that you MUST treat every other driver as an idiot but just having that thought in your mind might one day save your life.

And no, I didn't deliberately go looking for your previous posts but just saw them when I was looking for something else.

I iwsh the &*$% in th suburu this morning would read this thread- it was all i could do to not to get out of my car and knock the bugger out- forcing me onto the kerb just cos he didn't want to Q in the right lane!

Thought you all might appreciate this

the new highway code (http://www.selfmadejournalist.com/newhighwaycode.htm )

Originally posted by liencam
Thought you all might appreciate this

the new highway cpde (http://www.selfmadejournalist.com/newhighwaycode.htm )

Love it!! Passed it on to all my colleagues!!:thumbsup:

Originally posted by liencam
Thought you all might appreciate this

the new highway cpde (http://www.selfmadejournalist.com/newhighwaycode.htm )

Thats brilliant- loved It :clap: :clap:

A simple question to all drivers, the reason behind which may give you some pause for thought... It may even cause you to re-think your driving habits!

Q: On a straight road, in good conditions, travelling in a line of traffic at 30mph, how far behind the vehicle that you are following do you usually position yourself?

No cheating by checking stopping-distances in the highway code now!!

Originally posted by Pseudonym
A simple question to all drivers, the reason behind which may give you some pause for thought... It may even cause you to re-think your driving habits!

Q: On a straight road, in good conditions, travelling in a line of traffic at 30mph, how far behind the vehicle that you are following do you usually position yourself?

No cheating by checking stopping-distances in the highway code now!!

At least a two second gap should be maintained.

Originally posted by liencam
At least a two second gap should be maintained.

and how many metres does that equate too?

and why is that anyway?

I'd say I usually position myself about 20 - 30 m.

2 seconds would give you 27 2/3rd metres.

In the average drivers reaction time you'd travel 4.5m

Originally posted by Cyclone
and how many metres does that equate too?

and why is that anyway?

I'd say I usually position myself about 20 - 30 m.

I have no idea what distance it equates 'too'.

I just know that two seconds distance allows you enough reaction time to accomodate for any unforseen events.

Just worked it out on my PC.....

0.5 miles per minute divided by 30 equals 0.01666 miles.

1609.344 M/Mile divided by 0.01666 equals 26.8224 metres.

Job done.

:thumbsup:

what's with the '' around too?

2 seconds not being a measure of distance though, it's not an awfully good way to measure gaps.

Based my calculation 1660 m in a mile (which was a guess), I take it you looked it up for 1609.344

Originally posted by Cyclone
what's with the '' around too?

2 seconds not being a measure of distance though, it's not an awfully good way to measure gaps.

Based my calculation 1660 m in a mile (which was a guess), I take it you looked it up for 1609.344

Just pointing out an error in one of your posts for a change! ;)

Two seconds is an easier distance for people to gauge though - you can use lamp posts, bus stops, road markings etc - especially in a country that hasn't really taken to the metric system.

And yes, I checked the actual number of metres in a mile in order to give a more accurate answer, as I expect the person who posted the question will be telling us exactly how many metres we should be allowing.....

Originally posted by liencam
At least a two second gap should be maintained.

Agreed, it should... but is it?

More to the point, is it enough?

Is leaving a 2 second gap the same as driving within your stopping distance? Can you bring your vehicle from 30mph to a standstill within 2 seconds? I doubt it! I drive a car with ventilated discs and darned efficient power-brakes and there's no way I can go from thirty to zero in two seconds, not even by using cadence-braking.

If you consider it carefully, even driving within your stopping-distance, the odds are that you can only stop safely if the vehicle in front indicates by their brake-lights and then stops in their normal braking-distance. If you've driven for any length of time, you'll know that following a vehicle without working brake-lights means that after the first realisation, you hang well back if you've any sense.

Now what about driving within your stopping-distance if the vehicle in front stops with no warning brake-lights and no slowing-down distance... What if they run into the back of the vehicle in front of them? What if they hit a roadside obstacle, a parked car, or a skip? What if another vehicle pulls out of a side-road and they run into the side of it and stop dead, no warning, no braking-distance?

What I'm saying is that although you may consider that you're driving within your stopping-distance, in many cases you may not be, you may be driving within your own stopping-distance PLUS that of the vehicle in front of you!

This was brought home to me very forcibly when driving on a relatively quiet motorway at 6am on a Sunday morning a little while ago. A car some 400 feet in front of me was travelling at the same speed as myself, a steady 75-80 (ok, I admit it!), when I suddenly became aware that somehow it had changed shape and that I was catching it up very rapidly indeed! It had evidently had a blow-out and tipped onto its' roof and was spinning in the centre carriageway, making very little forward progress. I had no chance of stopping before I reached it and could only swerve around it on the nearside.

Following him from some 400 feet behind, I was confident that if he stopped, I'd have no difficulty in also stopping, well before I stood the remotest chance of hitting him. This little experience showed me just how mistaken I could be!

Originally posted by Pseudonym
Agreed, it should... but is it?

More to the point, is it enough?

Is leaving a 2 second gap the same as driving within your stopping distance? Can you bring your vehicle from 30mph to a standstill within 2 seconds? I doubt it! I drive a car with ventilated discs and darned efficient power-brakes and there's no way I can go from thirty to zero in two seconds, not even by using cadence-braking.

If you consider it carefully, even driving within your stopping-distance, the odds are that you can only stop safely if the vehicle in front indicates by their brake-lights and then stops in their normal braking-distance. If you've driven for any length of time, you'll know that following a vehicle without working brake-lights means that after the first realisation, you hang well back if you've any sense.

Now what about driving within your stopping-distance if the vehicle in front stops with no warning brake-lights and no slowing-down distance... What if they run into the back of the vehicle in front of them? What if they hit a roadside obstacle, a parked car, or a skip? What if another vehicle pulls out of a side-road and they run into the side of it and stop dead, no warning, no braking-distance?

What I'm saying is that although you may consider that you're driving within your stopping-distance, in many cases you may not be, you may be driving within your own stopping-distance PLUS that of the vehicle in front of you!

This was brought home to me very forcibly when driving on a relatively quiet motorway at 6am on a Sunday morning a little while ago. A car some 400 feet in front of me was travelling at the same speed as myself, a steady 75-80 (ok, I admit it!), when I suddenly became aware that somehow it had changed shape and that I was catching it up very rapidly indeed! It had evidently had a blow-out and tipped onto its' roof and was spinning in the centre carriageway, making very little forward progress. I had no chance of stopping before I reached it and could only swerve around it on the nearside.

Following him from some 400 feet behind, I was confident that if he stopped, I'd have no difficulty in also stopping, well before I stood the remotest chance of hitting him. This little experience showed me just how mistaken I could be!

A lucky escape from an unfortunate incident! Glad you managed to avoid them.

Just as an aside, if you asked me to judge 400 feet I wouldn't have a clue....:|

when joining a roundabout, when the bloke in front pulls onto the roundabout and you think he's gone, don't just look right, wait for your gap, then go. sometimes the bloke in front bottles it half onto the roundabout, you hit him, "doh!"

v common accident..

Originally posted by liencam
...Just as an aside, if you asked me to judge 400 feet I wouldn't have a clue....:|

Well, we're talking about 30-40 car lengths... which is a gap you don't normally see on motorways! But as I say it was at a quiet time and the car in front presented no threat to me... or so I thought!

By the time I'd realised what it was that had altered and that I was closing fast and started to react to that information, I was virtually on top of it... It certainly made me rethink about safe following-distances! :D

Originally posted by liencam
Just pointing out an error in one of your posts for a change! ;)

Two seconds is an easier distance for people to gauge though - you can use lamp posts, bus stops, road markings etc - especially in a country that hasn't really taken to the metric system.

And yes, I checked the actual number of metres in a mile in order to give a more accurate answer, as I expect the person who posted the question will be telling us exactly how many metres we should be allowing.....

but my use of 'too' was correct. What did you think I should have used, to, or two?

Personally I find 30 m easier to judge than an abstract 2 s, to judge the 2 s requires you to use a stationary object, which means spending time watching lamposts instead of where you are going.

I wonder if any stopping time data can be found by google, I suspect that a modern saloon stops far quicker than 2 s from 30mph.
Found one test that finds times of just under 2s, but it was tested in the wet. These tests included reaction time.

So in theory, at 30 mph with 2s (or 27m) of gap, if the car in front somehow comes to an immediate dead halt you should not hit it.

Good observational skills should give you more warning though, so there should be no chance at all of hitting it.
Afterall, cars don't generally just go from 30 to nothing.

If you were driving within your stopping distance and assuming that they would only break to a stop then theoretically you could drive around 7 m behind them.

Originally posted by Cyclone
but my use of 'too' was correct. What did you think I should have used, to, or two?

Definition of too (adverb)
also; as well as; more than is necessary

I would have used 'to', as you wrote "and how many metres does that equate too?"

Anyway, we are getting off-topic now!!

Cyclone... "Found one test that finds times of just under 2s, but it was tested in the wet. These tests included reaction time."

From 30 to zero in 2 seconds? What automatic braking assistance does it have? An anchor that ejects and embeds itself in the tarmac? :D

Cyclone... "Good observational skills should give you more warning though, so there should be no chance at all of hitting it.
Afterall, cars don't generally just go from 30 to nothing."

Agreed, they generally don't but I've proved to my own satisfaction that they can!

Cyclone... "If you were driving within your stopping distance and assuming that they would only break to a stop then theoretically you could drive around 7 m behind them."

That could be a very dangerous assumption to make though...

Interesting data here if you have time to read it

link (http://everything.blockstackers.com/index.pl?node_id=1711951)

ermm, no - there were test done with a standard Peug 205 and a modified Ford Escort in damp conditions. If you don't like the data try and find some that says otherwise.

Originally posted by liencam
Definition of too (adverb)
also; as well as; more than is necessary

I would have used 'to', as you wrote "and how many metres does that equate too?"

Anyway, we are getting off-topic now!!

Ah well, it's natural thread evolution;


"Too" is used in expressions like "I can do it too".
(It means the same as "as well" or "also".)


1. Using "too" to mean "as well" or "also" is extremely common (as is the use of "too" explained in Section 3 above).

Examples:
I have been there too.
(I have been there as well. / I have also been there.)
[picture]

Could you explain that to Sharon too.
("to Sharon" - preposition; explained in Section 2 / "too" - means "as well")

Surely I was using 'too' in the form above.

I can't use 'to' as that is either a preposition (and being at the end of the sentence clearly isn't 'pre' anything) or it is used in the infinitive form, ie to do, to run, to brake, to crash. Which also isn't how I was using it.

Originally posted by Cyclone
I can't use 'to' as that is either a preposition (and being at the end of the sentence clearly isn't 'pre' anything) or it is used in the infinitive form, ie to do, to run, to brake, to crash. Which also isn't how I was using it.

I can see your point, but when you are posing a question, surely it is more appropriate?

"How much did the shopping come to?"

"Where are you going to?"

If you substitute 'too' for 'to' in these instances it looks wrong to me (I would have got a red mark if I'd used 'too' in this way whilst at school).

Apparently not, well not according to that webpage I found anyway, it' a funny one to google for '"Grammar "Too or To"' was my query.

Also, if you say that one in your head, "How much did the shopping come to?" Say it with a long too, and a short hard Tu. The 2nd sounds incorrect.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Interesting data here if you have time to read it

link (http://everything.blockstackers.com/index.pl?node_id=1711951)

ermm, no - there were test done with a standard Peug 205 and a modified Ford Escort in damp conditions. If you don't like the data try and find some that says otherwise.
I can see no reference in that link to the data you quoted ???

Is it me? i've read it through twice so far!

Originally posted by Cyclone
Apparently not, well not according to that webpage I found anyway, it' a funny one to google for '"Grammar "Too or To"' was my query.

Also, if you say that one in your head, "How much did the shopping come to?" Say it with a long too, and a short hard Tu. The 2nd sounds incorrect.

I disagree - sorry!

Originally posted by Pseudonym
I can see no reference in that link to the data you quoted ???

Is it me? i've read it through twice so far!

the lnik was to a 2nd page I found that was interesting, i'll find the other one tomorrow, about to leave the office now.

Originally posted by liencam
Hows my posting?
Somewhat off-topic... And yours isn't the only one!! :mad:

Originally posted by Cyclone
Surely I was using 'too' in the form above.

I can't use 'to' as that is either a preposition (and being at the end of the sentence clearly isn't 'pre' anything) or it is used in the infinitive form, ie to do, to run, to brake, to crash. Which also isn't how I was using it.

I thought I'd wade in 'cos I like grammar :)

The correct version is 'to'. If it was 'too', then the phrase "and how many metres does that equate too?" could also be written "and how many metres does that equate as well?" or "and how many metres does that equate also?"

Blatantly wrong. However, "and how many metres does that equate to?" can also be rewritten "and that equates to how many metres?" Much better, but the second version feels irksome so we use the first.

Thinking of it another way, the answer to the question "How many metres does that equate to?" is "That equates to 27 metres." The word 'to' is the same in the question and answer.

Here's a link: http://www.wsu.edu/%7Ebrians/errors/to.html


Just remember that the only meanings of “too” are “also” ("I want some ice cream too.") and “in excess” ("Your walkman is playing too loudly.") ... “To” is the proper spelling for all the other uses.

Originally posted by Pseudonym
Somewhat off-topic... And yours isn't the only one!! :mad:

call 0800 - I DONT CARE

:thumbsup: