just read in the star that first are not ruling out bus fare rises this would cause chaos and jan wilson would do nothing as usual wonder what people thoughts are ?

i think its outrageous , especially when they have risen 3 times already this year , talk about trying to encourage ppl to use public transport , i think they pushing passengers off & more & more into their own cars , its cheaper now to get a taxi if theres more than 1 of u going some where , what do they think they will gain , in my opinion they will lose more passengers , i work for royal mail obviously petrol/diesel costs more now for them too but they dont put stamps up 4 times a year to compensate !!!! down with sypte

I'm not sure why an increase in bus fares by First will cause chaos. Anger and irritation maybe, but chaos? We managed the strike (with difficulty) so I assume that we'll manage this.

And what the heck is Jan Wilson supposed to do? First is a private company. It's up to them what they do. Jan Wilson may attempt to influence and pressure via the Passenger Transport uthority and the City Council but she has no power to do anything.

The power rests with us - if they stick up the fares, do what we can to vote with our feet.

Joe

Originally posted by wizzardofODD
i think its outrageous , especially when they have risen 3 times already this year , talk about trying to encourage ppl to use public transport , i think they pushing passengers off & more & more into their own cars , its cheaper now to get a taxi if theres more than 1 of u going some where , what do they think they will gain , in my opinion they will lose more passengers , i work for royal mail obviously petrol/diesel costs more now for them too but they dont put stamps up 4 times a year to compensate !!!! down with sypte

Down with SYPTE? Why?

They do NOT run the buses! Get your facts straight - First are a private company. SYPTE are responsible for infrastructure and tendered services, but they CANNOT tell the bus companies how to run their businesses! The local authorities have had no direct operational control over most public transport since 1987. Blame the bus companies, blame the Tory government who put the legislation through, and blame the subsequent Labour governments who've not done anything to change matters, but blaming SYPTE is rather pointless.

Joe

Just to add context, the reason this has come up is ever increasing fuel prices, caused by the global price of oil shooting up to yet another record high, caused by things like civil unrest, wars, natural disasters etc in the big oil producing areas of the world.

Taxi trade association have called on the council to put taxi fares up to reflect the increase in fuel costs.

Originally posted by JoeP
The power rests with us - if they stick up the fares, do what we can to vote with our feet.

Joe

I have very reluctantly started doing that recently, as unfortunately in a lot of cases it is cheaper to drive than to catch a bus.

I thought we were supposed to be being encouraged to leave the car at home and use public transport? The amount fares have shot up over recent years are making that more and more difficult for families. Maybe the solution would be to de-de-regulate the buses, and bring them back into public hands.

I caught the bus for the first time in quite a while yesterday, it cost £1.30 to get from one end of Ecclesall Road to the other!

I'll stick to walking in future methinks

Originally posted by JoeP


Blame the bus companies, blame the Tory government who put the legislation through, and blame the subsequent Labour governments who've not done anything to change matters, but blaming SYPTE is rather pointless.

Joe

If you blame the Labour Government and want them to do something about the buses, surely the best reaction would be to vote Labour out locally in next years local elections. After all, Jan Wilson is a Labour politician.

Originally posted by goose
If you blame the Labour Government and want them to do something about the buses, surely the best reaction would be to vote Labour out locally in next years local elections. After all, Jan Wilson is a Labour politician.

Surely that would depend on what the other political parties would do to improve public transport?

You can't vote someone out without voting someone else in to replace them, and the alternatives might be worse!

Hey oop what about all the duty the government collects from all us car drivers etc, they can't afford for us all to get the train/bus, cos half of 'em don't work to any sort of timetable, jist hope that you'll get to work sometime. You'd think that Gordon Brown would be thinking of cutting the duty we pay on fuel cos the money they're raking in on the high prices would cover it, wouldn't it?:rant:
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If you don't like my driving , then stay off the footpath---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by goose
If you blame the Labour Government and want them to do something about the buses, surely the best reaction would be to vote Labour out locally in next years local elections. After all, Jan Wilson is a Labour politician.

Er, why?

That's why I said Government. The deregulation of buses was a NATIONAL policy - local politicoes had nothing to do with it.

Labour have hadthe opportunity to rverse or modify the Tory policies but haven't.

Joe

I can understand they put fares up due to oil prices etc, but you never hear of them lowering bus fares etc when oil prices eventually go down again. If it was just a temp thing while oil prices were high it would not be so bad, but once it's increased you never ever hear of them decreasing it after the crisis - thats what annoys me.

One of the biggest problems in Sheffield transport wise is the lack of competition on most routes. If First didn't have a near monopoly then they woulf be less willing to rase their prices so much.

It is actually cheaper to take my car to work everyday on my own, and that isn't right. I spend about £7 a week on fuel (it's a diesel) compared to about £14 a week if i got the overcrowded, erratically timed, obnoxiously staffed (i speak about a minority here) buses.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
One of the biggest problems in Sheffield transport wise is the lack of competition on most routes. If First didn't have a near monopoly then they woulf be less willing to rase their prices so much.

I think this is the main problem as well. First know they can keep increasing their fares time and time again because most people who use their buses don't have any alternative. I am going to be very interested to see what First's profits are this year - I can't help but think they increase fares by more than they have to to cover increased fuel costs, so that they can also increase their profits. Have First increased prices elsewhere in the country at a similar rate?

i think changin the bus fares is stupid i no its only 5 or 10 pence more but honestly wot is the point

I can guarantee that if fuel prices drop again (and they may) the bus companies will not bring their fares down....

how much profit do First make every year? Millions....

Boo the bus companies - cos once First put their fares up the rest will follow suit...

I can except that fuel prices are increasing on the world market, however what First( and any other bus operator) don't mention is that they also get a fuel duty rebate from central government for operating general bus services.
There is a clause in the Transport Act( i.e. withdraw the rebate ) that VOSA get can use against operators for poor standards of bus service provision like poor standards of maintainence, regular failure of not operating bus service to its licence( each route has a licence).
By the way if you have a look around various bus operators web sites fares have increased all over the UK.

you say what as jan wilson got to do with it well if she actually did her job and telling people she would not put up with first taking fares up and changing services she today was presenting a jersey on the tour of britain and every other guset got applause expcept her tells it own story .

again nothing will be done and first make mugs of sheffield people

First operate in London as well and like all of the other providers they are required to to a fixed price set by Transport for London. A single bus journey costs £1.20 for start to finish of the bus route which in some cases can be 5, 6 or more miles. All of the bus companies accept the Transport for London pricing. What I fail to understand is if that happens in London, why this travel policy cant be implemented elsewhere across the country.

Two words

robber barons!

I have lived in UK/.Sheff for three years and the bus fares have gone from £9 for a week saver to £13 with a decrease in service..

(and not to mention the cruddy state of some of those buses.)

Originally posted by wendygs
First operate in London as well and like all of the other providers they are required to to a fixed price set by Transport for London. A single bus journey costs £1.20 for start to finish of the bus route which in some cases can be 5, 6 or more miles. All of the bus companies accept the Transport for London pricing. What I fail to understand is if that happens in London, why this travel policy cant be implemented elsewhere across the country.

I can just hear the moaning about us tax payers paying for this policy through the council tax which is the case in London i think.

Originally posted by wendygs
First operate in London as well and like all of the other providers they are required to to a fixed price set by Transport for London. A single bus journey costs £1.20 for start to finish of the bus route which in some cases can be 5, 6 or more miles. All of the bus companies accept the Transport for London pricing. What I fail to understand is if that happens in London, why this travel policy cant be implemented elsewhere across the country.

The Mayor of London (aka Red Ken) in the last few years has put a LOT of extra subsidy money into the Capital's bus service, with extra services, new buses and affordable fares, which has led to quite significant growth in passenger numbers.

Of course Londoners are most likely paying extra council tax to enjoy the better bus services.....

I would also add that London is the only area of the UK that nice Mrs Thatcher didn't de-regulate the buses. They instead have each route as a franchise, railway style.

Originally posted by Andy C
I would also add that London is the only area of the UK that nice Mrs Thatcher didn't de-regulate the buses. They instead have each route as a franchise, railway style.

But (I think i am right in this) because a lot of routes overlap, especially in central London isn't there effectively quite a lot of competition anyway. Much more so than in Sheffield in fact.

Well, speaking as a non-driver I think I'm going to be doing a lot of walking soon. First seem to have a habit of putting their fares up every six months, and of course the smaller operators then follow suit. It now costs me £1.30 to ride the bus the six stops into town ... I'll let you do the math yourself. The crazy part is if I caught the bus one stop further out, a grand total of fifty yards further up the road, I'd be paying £1.50. And that's a single fare. I can get a return on the train to Barnsley for two-and-a-half quid f'chrissake.

It ain't public transport anymore. Now, it's an expensive private-hire firm with filthy, noisy, smelly, crowded, under-maintained equipment. And that's just the staff. It's not going to be long before it's cheaper to hire a taxi to town and back...

Originally posted by slimsid2000
But (I think i am right in this) because a lot of routes overlap, especially in central London isn't there effectively quite a lot of competition anyway. Much more so than in Sheffield in fact. They are not competing though, as they are all operating as London Transport services, with the same fares and bus passes/Travelcards are valid on any bus regardless of the franchise holder.

Originally posted by Tubthump
It is actually cheaper to take my car to work everyday on my own, and that isn't right. I spend about £7 a week on fuel (it's a diesel) compared to about £14 a week if i got the overcrowded, erratically timed, obnoxiously staffed (i speak about a minority here) buses.

I agree about the significant cost saving when comparing driving a car to taking the bus, but £7 a week on diesel?! Where do you live? Manchester?

I get buy with a fiver of unleaded petrol a week (but then I'm very frugal - some may unfairly call me tight ;) )

bus fares going up due to the amount of bus shelters that drunken louts and hooligans smash,someone has to pay for these damages and unfortunately its public transport users,dont forget that B.T. have made price increases in public telephone boxes,how many of them do you see smashed up?
councel rates go up because the hooligans trash empty houses,smash the windows,it goes on and on.

whats the point moaning about fuel prices? your gonna fill your car up,your not gonna stop using it,think of it like this,when cigarettes went up was there as much fuss?people still buy them but what they seem to forget is that they are paying that extra on a packet of fags everyday,they only fill their vehicles about once a week,now do the math.

Originally posted by JoeP
Blame the bus companies, blame the Tory government who put the legislation through, and blame the subsequent Labour governments who've not done anything to change matters, but blaming SYPTE is rather pointless.Surely the E.U. (or rather its predecessor) is to to blame, not the local governments ...

Originally posted by ormester
just read in the star that first are not ruling out bus fare rises this would cause chaos and jan wilson would do nothing as usual wonder what people thoughts are ?

don't use buses.......i'd sooner walk:)

Originally posted by Abdul
I agree about the significant cost saving when comparing driving a car to taking the bus, but £7 a week on diesel?! Where do you live? Manchester?

I get buy with a fiver of unleaded petrol a week (but then I'm very frugal - some may unfairly call me tight ;) )
Yeah, I'm probably a bit more wasteful. And it's an old diesel: like a knackered horse going out for one last race.

I wish you motorists on this forum would be more honest with your costings! The AA claim is costs a single motorist doing around 5000miles a year ,the current rate works out around 54p a mile.