Hey every1...Hope you are good...bit of a spooky subject for some...like we all do...im going through a bit of a hard time and i am in need of a white witch or a clairvoyant. I will pay how ever much i have to...but i need help and guidence. I need pure accuracy. May be you are one of the above or you know someone who could be of use?? Please do let me know! Thanks! x

If you're after pure accuracy, dream on. You're looking in the wrong place. What, generally, is the "hard time" that you're going through? And why do you think a white/black/polka dotted witch or a clairvoyant would be of any benefit to you?

Well its always worth asking others...and the ''hard times'' is not something i feel the whole public should know...

And like im sure alot of people know...when you need help and you have no way out you will turn to anything or any1??

My apologies. I just find it hard to get my head around what problem could be alleviated by either a white witch or a clairvoyant. You've got me very curious. I see no common ground between them at all.

Please dont apologise!...:) ...its fine...i guess i need hope for the future and some sort of magic to help me...i just need help!:(

And like im sure alot of people know...when you need help and you have no way out you will turn to anything or any1??

And the first person you turn to is a witch or someone who claims to see things that you can't? Isn't there anyone else to seek advice from? You should try the forum out you'll be suprised at the level and depth of advice you'd receive. Most of us can't converse with Napoleon on a one-to-one basis, but that's perhaps not such a bad thing. :)

You know what...maybe you are right...i will actually take your advice...i will do that 2moro...Thanks...its actually made me think now...

Well we're here to help (though I've undoubtedly offended - again - a few members of the forum). You certainly sound troubled and possibly depressed but bear in mind none of us know you, so you can be fairly open on here, so long as you keep it general.

If it's advice you need, we've a good spread of professions on the forum, and if it's a getting-things-off-your-chest session, you're also in the right place.

I just tend to flinch when people under stress grasp hold of the spiritualist/paranormal/New Age rope when there's more grounded , common sense resources available to them.

There's exactly the resources MissS is looking for too ;)

And not all of our 'alternative path' friends are con merchants or weirdos :suspect:

Welcome to the forum MissS, and PM Litha if you're still looking :thumbsup: She can probalby point you in the right direction :)

And don't forget - everybody has their own choice as to their 'spiritual' beliefs :thumbsup: :suspect: (not pointing the finger at any weird american christian cult in particular :D )

No such thing as a white witch. It's a misconception brought about by Gardner and Saunders in order to circumvent the repeal of the witchcraft act which allows for the practice of witchcraft but only if none are harmed. This in itself is a broken argument.

White witch, pink witch, black witch - are all nonsense. It is what a witch supposedly uses his or ehr abilitiy for that defines the colour of the magik they practice. However - it is human nature to be outside perfection and therefor no-one can be totally goos (white) or totally evil (black).

There is a bit of difference between a real witch and a clairvoyant as well. Just a bit ... hmmmm!

I suggest that what you are looking for in this field is not a witch at all, but a wiccan as they follow the crede "And ye harm none". This is something a witch would laugh at.

Dragon

True Strix, there are witches (of various hues) on here, and possibly one or two claiming they are clairvoyant.

The point I'm making is when a situation is weighing you down to that degree, why would either of these groups be a solution? A more conventional and reliable source of help should always, always, always be sought first. If the conventional path doesn't produce results then the squiggly route (avoiding the many weirdos, con merchants and self-deluded marshmallow-heads) may be sought.

Originally posted by Dragon
No such thing as a white witch. It's a misconception brought about by Gardner and Saunders in order to circumvent the repeal of the witchcraft act which allows for the practice of witchcraft but only if none are harmed. This in itself is a broken argument.

White witch, pink witch, black witch - are all nonsense. It is what a witch supposedly uses his or ehr abilitiy for that defines the colour of the magik they practice. However - it is human nature to be outside perfection and therefor no-one can be totally goos (white) or totally evil (black).

There is a bit of difference between a real witch and a clairvoyant as well. Just a bit ... hmmmm!

I suggest that what you are looking for in this field is not a witch at all, but a wiccan as they follow the crede "And ye harm none". This is something a witch would laugh at.

Dragon

The fact that so many witches call themselves white witches when so many others say there's no such thing speaks volumes about the internal inconsistancies within witchydom, Dragon. I find it hard to imagine an ear nose and throat doctor saying there's no such thing as heart specialists, and I'd soil my pants if I were ever treated by one of them.

Witchy colours have been covered in a seperate thread however, so we'd better leave it be. It'll end in tears. :hihi:

Aye - best leave colours Ant. But you completely ignored the reasons I sufggested for the use of colours in the craft. I have contact with many witches and wiccans and not one of them adheres to this colour scheme. But there are those out there who have been practicing for two minutes and jump on the band wagon so you are probably right.

Which thread was the colouring mentioned on anyhow? Must have been a while back?

I doubt a witch can help out with the same type of problem a clairvoyant couuld help with. Suggest, yet again, Brenda Diskin as the clairvoyant to contact on this.

Dragon

I can't recall the thread, and yes, it was a while ago. I'm sure a search would pull it out of the archives.

Ok, it wasn't specifically the colour thing more witches and clairvoyants. Any thread touching on them tends to rapidly grind down to a muddy mess, way off topic. They're best left to seperate threads in my experience.

I doubt a witch can help out with the same type of problem a clairvoyant couuld help with.
That's what set the alarm bells ringing. If she's unsure who to ask for assistance, I'm very concerned she's clutching at straws and asking the wrong questions of the wrong people.

I went to a psychic in Harrogate called Keith Watson and I highly recommend him. Bit of an odd bloke but knew some scarily accurate info.

Give him a go!

But above all trust in fate, everything happens for a reason it's a philosophy in which I like to take comfort in.

Originally posted by intooblivion
But above all trust in fate, everything happens for a reason it's a philosophy in which I like to take comfort in.

I absolutely agree wholeheartedly with that! :thumbsup:

Trust in fate is a bit like - do nothing and hope that everything will come your way. Fate is something we control through the choices we make in life. You are responsible for what happens in your life - though you want to be careful how far you go along that path of responsability.

Trusting in fate is a cop-out.

Dragon

It's not a cop out at all if it helps people keep their heads above water.

The choices we make are ultimately governed by fate. Besides, I'm allowed my opinions, just because you take a different stance doesn't mean you can dis respect my opinions

Disrepect is not the issue.

The choices we make are ultimately governed by ourselves. Anything else is to shirk reponsability. It wasn't/isn't my fault. But it generally is.

Fate is a bit like god - something we can blame when things do not go as we would want them to go.

Dragon

It is totally pointless recommending psychics and clairvoyants to MissSociable. She's made it clear she wants "pure accuracy". She's as much chance of that as asking a nice cream bun the directions to Dudley town hall.

Hi everyone...well thankyou for all your help, advice and response...for once in a very long time i feel as though i have got people who will help and stand by me. You are all great!:) Made me smile anyway:) ...As strange as it may sound i have always had a strong belief in clairvoyants and white witch's...Of cause you get some people who try to con you in between. I really would like to avoid this however i am in a situation where this is my last hope...However after putting this on the forum it has made me feel as though maybe you guys could help...i mean unfortunatly for me i have reached rock bottom and sometimes the most sad and strange thoughts go through my head. The problem i have got has been going on for over a year and i feel that i am losing my strength to continue battling it. I think this is fairly normal for a few people...I just need help and advice...encouragment...Could you guys give me that please?? You may be the only people that can help as i have tried not to tell many people the truth...and the ones who do know...know me as being strong...but they havent realised even i can break down and need help:( ...I hope to hear from you all soon...All my love xxx

This is getting very criptic MissSociable... I'm sure we'd all be happy to give advice, and sometimes advice from a collection of strangers can be quite helpful cause you get lots of different points of view from third parties who arn't personally involved.

But perhaps you'd better tell us what the problem is. We can't offer advice until we know what's going on...

Well try and give us an abstract outline then MissS :(

We can't help much if we don't know what's bothering you - unless just talking to people makes you feel better ;)

God knows there's enough of us to talk to here :D

Alternatively, you could try pm'ing people who are into the craft and that way your revelations are treated with confidentiality just as if you was talking to a solicitor or doctor.

Just a thought mind.

Dragon

ps. I also question your continued use of the term "White witch". You looking for some sort of arguement? Why not jsut say witch and have done with it?

Cut her some slack Dragon.

To outsiders there are connotations attached to the word 'witch' and if they feel more comfortable diluting it with the word 'white' let them - until they have the chance to learn better ;)

Perhaps a visit to one of Litha's moots would help? :) (for MissS, not you :rolleyes: )

Appologies. You are right Strix. Working in the witchcraft sector and having a long term interest has sort of made me less able to cope with new fangled descriptions.

Not had a white witch come into my shop who has left with the title white, and never met anyone who is so pure as to believe their actions will not adversely affect someone somewhere.

Still - it would not harm to attempt to educate people and maybe.

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
Trust in fate is a bit like - do nothing and hope that everything will come your way. Fate is something we control through the choices we make in life. You are responsible for what happens in your life - though you want to be careful how far you go along that path of responsability.

Trusting in fate is a cop-out.

Dragon

I agree that we are all responsible for the choices we make, and I agreed that we should all be pro-active in making good things happen in our lives.

But I don't think trusting in fate is a cop-out. Sometimes life throws things at us that we have to make sense of, one way or the other. Some people believe in a god, and some in fate. I suppose it just makes thing easier for them to explain or rationalise.

Just because it doesn't work for you Dragon, doesn't mean it's a cop-out.

And sometimes going to an outside source, like a medium, witch or even a forum full of strangers, for advice and support can actually work. Getting different persepctives on a problem can help you see it through new eyes.

I don't believe in blindly accepting what others tell you. Often the answer lies within, but an outside influence can help draw it out or make it clearer.

Originally posted by JBee
I don't believe in blindly accepting what others tell you. Often the answer lies within, but an outside influence can help draw it out or make it clearer.
That's what tarot cards are for :D :hihi:

Any other suggestions to innundate our new friend with :P

Nothing like having choice :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Strix
That's what tarot cards are for :D :hihi:

Any other suggestions to innundate our new friend with :P

Nothing like having choice :thumbsup:

Am still waiting for MissS to tell us what's wrong. Then we can all stop stabbing in the dark!

Don't stab in the dark - you may hit ..... ouch!!!

Just because life throws things at us does not mean we have not put ourselves in a position where we can take the hit. Tis called responsability. But like I said - best not go too far down that road as some find it depressing.

Tarot are good, but only if either you know how to read them properly or you have gone to a person who knows how. Too many people out there who read the instruction booklet with the tarot deck and then think they can read the cards. *sigh*

Dragon

Originally posted by JBee
Am still waiting for MissS to tell us what's wrong. Then we can all stop stabbing in the dark!
Excuse for a meet! (http://www.murdertogo.com/articles/NEFARIOUS%20%20Dvd%20Review%20Stab%20In%20The%20Da rk%201-1_files/) :D

Originally posted by Dragon
Too many people out there who read the instruction booklet with the tarot deck and then think they can read the cards. *sigh*
Or buy a deck that doesn't suit them so they don't connect with it *sigh*

Or are just plain useless at interpreting other people's spreads :suspect:

Originally posted by JBee
Am still waiting for MissS to tell us what's wrong. Then we can all stop stabbing in the dark!

Bit of common sense. Nice to see.

Why on earth are people whittering on about tarot cards when they don't know what the problem is? If I was suffering (this is obviously just an example) from depression caused from lack of sleep resulting from noisy neighbours and living in a damp untidy house to which I owed Sheffield City Council £250 rent arrears, the advice I'd be giving would be to contact the council to make arrangements, contacts the appropriate department dealing with noise abatement, and perhaps getting out of the house for relaxing walks. I wouldn't be farting about with a deck of painted cards. With respect. ;)

Well some of us were just lightening the mood round here :roll:

Go on - make it all doom and gloom Ant.

That's not like you at all :suspect: Somebody posting under your moniker?

That's great Ant - but with a little reasoning you can figure out that it is unlikely to be the things you are talking about.

As I was informed earlier - cut the person some slack ;)

Maybe it is too personal for them to talk about openly?

Dragon

Trusting fate, may mean different things to different people.

Actually 'doing nothing' and hoping that everything will turn out as you like it, is foolish, and will likely lead to disaster.

I don't think that is the same thing however, as trusting in 'fate'. I think that sometimes you need to accept that you do not have all the answers, you need to take time out, be still, and rely on the universe at large for help and guidance (which may come in any form, or through another person).

MissSociable:

You've taken the first step in improving your situation, reaching out and asking for help and guidance. I assume your problem is of a spiritual nature, while I am no expert on the matter, I do know that there is ***** scarey stuff 'out there', and at the time, all can seem lost ...

Although you may not believe it now, in years to come, you may find yourself looking back, a much stronger, wiser and happier person.

Or then again - fate may decide you take a leap off suicide bridge in Scarbro' Sorry - just being flippant.

I still reckon blaming fate for circumstance is nothing more than shifting the blame. You believe as you will, of course. No harm in having a cop out or whatever.

This first step in resolving issues is actually a big cop out. Sorry but that is how it seems to me. The first step is not in asking for help, but surely in realising there is a problem. Talking about something is not always helpful. It can often make things worse.

MissSociable is not interested in how she may be in 30 years time. She is intersted in the problems she has now. Who knows what the future may hold for her (just let me check my tarot)?

Aye well!

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
Or then again - fate may decide you take a leap off suicide bridge in Scarbro' Sorry - just being flippant.

Perhaps we have a different understanding of what fate is?

Originally posted by Dragon
I still reckon blaming fate for circumstance is nothing more than shifting the blame. You believe as you will, of course. No harm in having a cop out or whatever.

I believe the (external) circumstances of a persons' life, are a reflection of their inner being. If something is not working, blaming it on 'fate' (or anything other that yourself) would simply be a wasted opportunity for reflection, growth and development.

I will believe as I will, of course! and by the same token, please, do continue to believe as you will.

Originally posted by Dragon
This first step in resolving issues is actually a big cop out. Sorry but that is how it seems to me. The first step is not in asking for help, but surely in realising there is a problem..

Yes, I agree, realising that there is a problem is of course very important. Clearly MissSociable has done this. Understanding that sometimes a problem is too much for you (to solve by yourself), and asking for help, is fine. Although, you'd be wise to be cautious. Some help and advice you are offered may not always be appropriate, and may make things worse.

Discernment is the name of the game here.

Originally posted by Dragon
Talking about something is not always helpful. It can often make things worse.

Yes, I agree it can make things worse, it can also make things better.

Originally posted by Dragon
MissSociable is not interested in how she may be in 30 years time. She is intersted in the problems she has now.

Of couse, I was merely trying to lift her mood and communicate that even when you can't see it, there is light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

Originally posted by Dragon
Who knows what the future may hold for her (just let me check my tarot)?

Aye well!

Dragon

Please, do as you will.

:P

Hello again! Im sorry for being in and out of this forum...and thankyou so much for all the private messages people have sent me...i shall respond to them very soon...as at the moment i am at work...i feel really honoured that people are contacting me.

However they are a few that seem to be getting annoyed for my opinion...i dont expect you all to believe in what i do...and if you don't i respect that so please could you do the same.

Im not a bad person...and once i am back from work i was give everyone answers...

Thankyou once again everybody xx

No Strix. It's me. There's nothing wrong with lightening the mood but the point I've been making all along is that we don't know what the problem is, so how can we advise? Bringing tarot into the equation just seemed pointless. And as I said earlier, threads like this that touch on the spiritualism/paranormal/witchypoo side always tend to get bogged down in arguments over tarot cards (including which set is best) the colour of witches, the dubious abilities of spiritualist types etc. Bearing in mind she demanded "pure accuracy", I didn't see any common sense in advising her on tarot cards. It's not me making it doom and gloom it's me expressing my opinion, and trying my hardest to maintain a sensible thread.

Dragon, read my post again. Did you see my comment of "this is obviously just an example"? - An attempt to stay an expected sarcastic response. The point I was making was quite simple: why should she be dircted to a tarot reader when you don't even know what her problem was in the first place? there are many (very, very, very many) instances where - to even a tarot card or clairvoyant "believer" - recommending the use of tarot cards or some clairvoyant bloke your sister once had a half-hour session with would be totally barmy. How do you know that any of these are advisable? In any case "pure accuracy" rules each of them out.

i dont expect you all to believe in what i do...and if you don't i respect that so please could you do the same.

I have virtually no respect for any of the things mentioned so far. However if you think that they will solve your current problem, you now have the names to pm. Good luck. ;)

I wish people would stop with the quotes. If you cannot remember what was said without resorting to quotes then don't bother bringing it up. Someof us do not need quotes (we have a scroll bar ;))

Jamie - answering everything with it could be this or it could be that is not answering anything at all, surely?

The tarot reader does not know everyones problems. Have to be more than a tarot reader for that And. Don't even know many peoples problems - especially as they do not recognise the problem themselves. What the tarot can do is point to the cause of a problem and suggest an answer or outcome. But the future is no set - if you like, so anything can happen.

Your lack of respect does not impress me. In fact it does quite the opposite. I can respect your desire to have no faith at all, even though I do not agree with you. And it is perhaps a good job that some people do show respect towards others or we would probably still be in caves saying ug.

As for people getting upset or annoyed by your post MissSociable - ignore them, and me if you like. Just do what it is you want to do and accept the consequences as being your responsability.

Dragon

As for not respecting anything i have said...fair enough...but it is something i believe in...and there is no need to be so touchy about the subject...

Well i am finally back from work so here it does...Basically over a year ago i did something very foolish...i lent a friend a ''very large'' amount of money...of cause out of the goodness of my own heart i did it as my friend was in alot of trouble...she promised to give my money back...however worse came to worst and she never did...as this was such a large amount she has put me in alot of debt and worry...i have begged for my money back but my friend is refusing to give it back...im a serious amount of debt...i cant tell any family member as they would go mad and blame it all on me...i have seen a solicitor however this is far too expensive...im devestated...im not in a situation to just let it go...i need it back...i have been in hospital for some time and lost my job...which has made things alot more difficult for me...no one has helped me nor been there for me...i have had to stop all my education as i can no longer afford to pay to study. At this moment in time my world is falling apart...i have no1 to turn to and no solution...U r all probably thinking that i am over reacting but at this moment in time im finding it hard to be strong and get through it...my health is serious...im about to lose my house cos i cant afford any rent now...please could any1 advise me and possibly help me??

What about going to the CAB, for some free legal advice in getting your money back from your friend and help in sorting out your rent issues ?

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
http://www.sescab.org.uk/

I would consider talking to your family about your current problems, surely they would want to know that you are in need of support.

As for the education, could you talk to your course tutor about the situation. They might be able to help with a small hardship loan/grant and/or give you free access to a counsellor (if you feel this might help ?)

Originally posted by Dragon
Jamie - answering everything with it could be this or it could be that is not answering anything at all, surely?

Well, it seems accurate to me. Saying that all advice is good, or all advice is bad, seems crackers to me. Advice can be good OR bad (or any shade of grey between).

So, advice, 'could be this or it could be that'. However, advice is not 'everything'.

Anyhow ...

Can we all calm down a bit? and keep this thread on topic?

Just for you Dragon, I will not quote. However it is a useful function and common practice on the forum. Don't like it? Don't use it.

I'm well aware of the theory behind tarot cards. Not sure why you felt the need to explain, but thankyou anyway. I'll not repeat what I said earlier concerning them.

I never intended to impress you with a lack of respect for witchcraft, tarot cards and the like - not quite sure why you thought that was my intention. And who said I have no respect for others? It's silly methods of divination, witchcraft and incompetent mediums (in all their forms - and I've yet to meet a competent one) that I have little respect for. I respect you, Dragon. I have no reason not to.

MissSociable, I never said I have no respect for you either (I'll still resist the urge to quote myself - I'm sure you can scroll back to check). And I'm not touchy about the subject, I'm expressing an opinion, as are you.

As for your problem, why the need for a witch, white or otherwise?

As I thought, the most useful resource available to you is far more mundane than a witch, tarot cards, clairvoyant, pig's entrails, etc. etc.

Pif's advice was excellent.

Does that mean we are all friends again? ;)

You said you had virtually no respect for any of the things expressed so far which included witchcraft adn tarot. As I am deeply involved in both - I would take that to mean a lack of respect either for me or for my beliefs.

However - you have since made yourself clear so that is that sorted.

Not sure how MissSociable expects white witchcraft or clairvoyants to help her in this. Anyhow - there you go. We all have a big blarney and end up back on common ground.

Dragon

I wish id never talked about this topic now!...Lol...causing alot up problems...

Basically...i have been to a CAB...they were helpful...but everything they told me cost alot of money...which i havent got...i went to see 1 solicitor however he was charging me a arm and a leg...

I guess i want to see a clairvoyant as it will hopefully give me hope...and a white witch...as im hoping with some of the witch's help may help me get my money back... i just dont have a clue what to do...im far too ill to work...

I have tried everything and this is my last solution! I am in a bigger mess as the person who borrowed this money does not work and has nothing under their name...

Any advice??

A white witch would probably not be able to help you get your money back from the other person as this conflicts with two of the rules of white witchcraft - in that doing something to someone against their will is unacceptable, and the wiccan rede "And ye harm none ...."

It is highly unlikely that any witch would come straight out and say they would employ magik to this end ... hmmmmm!

I certainly would and do. Call me Karma. It does not matter really. There are certain things people can do in magik that will ensure the target is only affected in a way that sees them pay for any wrongs they have done - so if they are innocent then they have nothing to fear.

You do not have to believe in magik for it to work but it can help ;)

Dragon

Have you investigated the option of the small claims court to recover your money?

Originally posted by Strix
Have you investigated the option of the small claims court to recover your money?

I think she said her friend is broke and has no income, or words to that effect. Can't get back, what isn't there.

Another idea would be to have a heart to heart with her 'friend', eplain her prediciment and all the trouble she's now in, as a result of her act of kindness.

My guess is that if she does this right (i.e. not screaming and shouting or making threats) they'll prob come to some arrangement, perhaps pay the money back in installments?

Hi every1...i have tried anything...my friend has some what turned into a psycho and will not give me the time of day...i have tried anything...sad thing is...it has even made me thinking about taking my own life...sad but true...however i cannot let her win...i need someones help and maybe this is my last option...any contacts or advice guys??:(

I know that this sounds like an odd response to your problems, but have you tried talking to the Samaritans (08457 909090)? In a crisis they are always there to listen, whatever you say is confidential, and they can help with, for example, the local contact numbers for Mind, who can provide you with free counselling sessions. I know that this won't solve your money worries (if you think you're alone in that one read my posts in the 'credit/debit card' thread) but they were really helpful after my husband was involved in a truck crash.

They may not be able to sort out the root of the problem (that's what the benefit system is for- have you seen a benefits advisor by the way? If your health isn't good you may qualify for all sorts of help) but your mental health suffering is now as important as the money, in fact probably more important.

You have to learn not to blame yourself for taking a decision that was the 'right' thing to do at the time that you took it. I would put my money on the line (if I had any) for all of my true friends, because one of the things that going through the 'cancer and bad debt together' scenario has taught me is that in the grand scheme of life, the universe and everything, money (or the lack of it) doesn't actually matter that much. That's not to say that your situation is easy as I wasn't half as chilled about the debt situation when it was new to me, but there really are ways out of most money traps.

Please, above anything else, do what you can to help yourself emotionally survive. The rest can be worked on in time.

Of course - failing all that you could resort to witchcraft in order to get your money back and your revenge, perhaps.

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
Of course - failing all that you could resort to witchcraft in order to get your money back and your revenge, perhaps.

Dragon

No, perhaps not.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
No, perhaps not.

I think (hope) he was being humorous ...

it's not a joking matter.

So far I think you, ant, PIF_tails and medusa particularly, have offered the most useful advice which I can not really add to.

I just totally fail to understand how one human being can intentionally intend harm to another (cursing).

Of course, if a person is upset or angry (or generally has lost control) they can be in reaction, and just lash out, but to come from a place of calm and intend harm to another?

I just don't get it.

Can you not go and see student support people if you are still registered at a college (or even if you are not) ? They have counsellors and the advice is free. Someone has probably suggested this already though.

Thankyou for eveyones time and response...may i please make one thing clear i am not a evil person and i mean no harm...this is why i particularly say ''white witch''...i am not saying anything else...i do not want to harm the person whatsoever...i just want what back what is mine thats all...no revenge no curse...just whats mine...then she can move on and so can i...i want my life back and im sure that is not 2much to ask is it??

I think alot of people are misunderstanding me on here...i really am not a bad person...

And the ones who are so understanding...Thankyou...having you all around me means so much...words cant explain.

I am unfortuante...all the people that i have dealt with regarding my debts have not been helpful...im getting referred to debt collectors...having default notices on my name...the works...i am now getting threatened to get kicked out of my house...

Call me evil or selfish....or whatever else you may thing i am a good person...however it is natural to want what was urs to begin with...I was stupid and trusting...and i need help...

Nobody's calling you bad, or selfish, please don't misunderstand forum users' sick sense of humour. The rest of us are more worried for you mental and emotional health. Judgement doesn't come into it (at least on my part).

You seem quite vulnerable right now, and that makes you easier for the threats to scare. Debt collection agency letters and threats with court aren't the end of the world, and don't necessarily mean that you will end up in court either. They threaten these things to make you panic and to make you 'try to find the money just a little bit harder'.

In terms of the money that you are owed, you may have to write off that money and start again just to get yourself out of your current hole.

Having been through the 'I think I'm going to end up homeless' stage I can tell you that none of your creditors actually want you to end up bankrupt because that means that they won't get their money out of you, but they have to frighten you to separate the 'can't pays' from the 'won't pays'.

The start of getting this sorted out is to

1 Make a proper household budget including all income and expenditure on household basics. If you have any positive balance at all then somebody like the Consumer Credit Couselling Service (0800 1381111) could help take the stress by dealing with all of your creditors for you, and all you have to do is give them money to send out to the creditors once a month. All threatening phone calls will stop, and so will most court actions.

2 If you are in danger of being made homeless then you need to speak to the homelessness unit at the council who can make sure that even if you lose your current home, you won't end up on the streets.

3 If you haven't already done it, go and apply for every benefit that you may qualify for- if you are on means tested benefit creditors will be much less harsh on you.

4 Remember that the worst case scenario is that you have to start again. Nothing more. They can't hang you for owing money. In some cases it may actually be in your interests for it to go to court, because then interest on debts will cease, and the judgment will take account of your income for whatever you are asked to pay. Remember that this is also the Civil court, and you won't get a criminal record (unless you slap the debt collector).

You have rights- learn what they are and stand up for yourself. 'It is illegal to use harrassment to procure payment of a consumer debt under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act' is a wonderful phrase to use to threatening creditors- it's part of their job to scare you into giving them money BUT IT'S ILLEGAL.

There are lots of different people out there who can help you in many different ways. Believe me, I've been to most of them, and it's obvious that you haven't got to the right ones for you yet. Keep trying- they ARE out there.

Sorry to sound like a lecture. It's taken me a long time to learn not to care quite so much about the whole money thing, and for your health's sake you need to do that too.

Support is there if you ask for it in the right places. Please do ask- there's no shame in accepting assistance.

Joking? Not likely. Why would I joke?

Everything you do in life affects everyone around you and I can guarentee that something you do each day causes harm to someone - though usually in a manner that is so far removed from you it is possible for you to pretend it was nothing involving you.

My way I do things and accept responsability.

Anyhow - I bet most of you have at some time Wished harm on someone else. Wonder how many of those wishes came true.

Maybe I go too deep into areas people do not want to venture near.

Dragon

Personally speaking I try very hard to do as little harm as I can manage (although I'm sure that I do cause some), and I think that pointing out to somebody who's having trouble coping that they are causing harm to others will make them feel worse, not better.

If MissSociable has approached the Forum for help, then due to the anonymous nature of the forum, whatever help that is offered is in the form of reassuring and understanding words, and therefore the priority of this thread should IMHO be which words may help, rather than doggedly pointing out an opinion which would depress most people, including me.

I understand and agree with most of your point of view, but this is not the thread to push it.

I'm open minded bout this kind of thing but there's a lot of fakes out there, a so called friend at the time read the tarot cards for me before claiming that there's been upto ten times I should have died so therefore fate didnt have nothing written for me as I should be dead and apparently thats the reason I have a crap life, not really what you want to hear if you already have problems so I wouldnt bother going to see anyone like that to sort my life out

You don't go too deep Dragon.

It is a complex topic (intending harm), with no black and white, and normally I would love to debate and explore it with you, but I have to agree with medusa666 about keeping this thread focused on MissSociable, who is clearly a fellow human being in need of help and guidance.

Hope and guidance indeed. So - you can try the legal ways which tend to cost as much as you get - both in time and sttress as well as money, or you can hope that Karma will bite the person on the bum in such a way they will realise the error of their ways and cough up the money they owe you as a gesture of good will.

No blame to anyone. We do as we are intended to do for whatever reasons the future has in store for us.

But none of this helps you get reimbursed for the monies owed to you. What will? That is a choice you have to make. By the way - I do not advocate physical violence - ask those who know me. It never solved anything.

Seems like your options are limited.

Dragon

Mandy25 - it is rare for the tarot to point out an actual death. They tend to beat around the bush, and most novices see the death card of the major arcana as being the ending of a life. Hah! They obviously have not done their research.

We can only attempt to predict the future. It is not always possible to get readings exact - but they do act as a warning, and if you have not died after being warned of your death by the Tarot, then it is obvious that your death was never intended in the first place, but by telling you this the cards have helped show you something you may otherwise have missed.

Takes lots of work to learn to read the cards properly - unless you are a natural. Scorn on an ex-friend is nothing new. Does not mean the Tarot are wrong though.

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
Mandy25 - it is rare for the tarot to point out an actual death. They tend to beat around the bush, and most novices see the death card of the major arcana as being the ending of a life. Hah! They obviously have not done their research.

We can only attempt to predict the future. It is not always possible to get readings exact - but they do act as a warning, and if you have not died after being warned of your death by the Tarot, then it is obvious that your death was never intended in the first place, but by telling you this the cards have helped show you something you may otherwise have missed.

Takes lots of work to learn to read the cards properly - unless you are a natural. Scorn on an ex-friend is nothing new. Does not mean the Tarot are wrong though.

Dragon

I think they're probably wrong in this case tho as otherwise from what she said i have nothing to live for and I'm not too happy about that idea, so I choose not to believe it

From the little information I have gleaned on this thread I think that MissSociable is an incredibly brave lady for discussing such a personal matter in such a public forum even if it is annonymised.

I've also read a few posts suggesting Court etc and my thought is that may not help resolve things because there are a lot of factors to consider; no-one has seen any of the paper work, the creditors or anything else that could be affected.

Consumer credit is an incredibly complicated legal area. None of the solicitors I have ever come across in the past 8 years know or care about debtor entitlements and/or the rights or wrongs of creditors in their conduct of matters. This is because there is NO money in consumer credit cases for solicitors to consider the best interests of their clients if they happen to be the debtor.

Hi everyone...Thankyou for your support and comments...

Well...its hard...everyones advice is excellent...however i have tried and tried and tried...but everything and everyone who can help me is charging me a large amount.

I have been intouch with a few people who call themselves a white witch and a few of them have turned around and said they could do this job for me. However how do i know it will be done...i have lost enough money and i dont want to lose anymore. I honestly have tried everything and this is my last hope...and if i dont get this money back then i honestly dont think i would want to love...as it will affect the whole of my life...

Its sad but its true...and i think its easier saying it on here as nobody knows me...i have never told anyone else how i feel...

I just dont know what to do...I guess all you people on here are the last people i can turn to...

You do not pay a witch for a spell. Nooooooooo!

If the spell works then perhaps a very small gift would show your appreciation - a few coppers in the cats protection league box or such - but never ever pay a witch to do a spell for you.

Dragon

Why on earth shouldn't you pay a witch to 'work' for you? After all creating magic can be physically and mentally tiring, just like any task. Put it this way, if a witch performs a protection spell for your house, and its a darned good one which works, then surely, if you're prepared to pay a locksmith for an afternoon's work to protect your home, why not the witch?
I'd be suspicous though of folks who run those 'dial this number and have your tarot read at only £2 per minute.' Payment in kind - a favour in return, or a cake you baked, something like that I'm sure would be appreciated. Or like Dragon says, a charity donation, perhaps asking the spell-worker which is their favourite charity?

You do not charge cos it is illegal.

Aside from that - like I said before - you are free to make a donation.

Most witches do not work full time. These sorts of spells are run of the mill and can be worked in very short time, depending how much practice the person has had casting spells.

Whichever - if needs be the person can pay After the spell has worked so what is the problem? Or you could buy one of those silly spell kits.

Dragon

I see what you mean now Dragon, and yes I would be suspicious of someone demanding an up-front CHARGE. Rather, I don't see anything wrong in paying if, as you say, the spell has worked. And by payment, I do indeed mean gift or donation. Just as I don't mind buying a few beers or a meal for a mate with a talent for decorating whose helped do up the hall, I wouldn't mind giving something in return for a decent bit of magic is what I meant.

Eventually Sheffette - doing these spells becomes so simple asking for a payment or expecting anything other than a simple thankyou would be too much. It all depends upon the path that you follow.

Back to the post though - hexes are not always bad. Those are called curses. For a white witch to offer to help the poster by using magik contradicts the ways fof the white witch who can also be called a wiccan.

Then you have the druid, the shaman, the norsies, the followers of various pantheons and all have their different ways of dealing with this type of problem.

It still all boils down to the same thing. When in the presence of a witch - be careful what you wish for.

Dragon

Well guys i have had interesting point of views...and after looking at all my debts i think the start of sorting my problems out is finding a company that can consolidate my debts? What you guys think? I dont think im going to have any luck looking for a white witch...but i wont give up hope...however in the progress i think i should get a company to consoladate my debts??

What do you guys think? Are these companys dodgy?? Or are they ok to use?? Please if you have any info on such companys or can recommend a company please do let me know. xxx

And thankyou for everyone support...if it wasnt for you guys i wouldnt have thought of such a thing...you have all given me hope! xxx

MissS

I would not go down this route because I have heard very bad reports of their activities. As far as I have been able to ascertain this is a concept brought over from the States and quite frankly that's where I'd leave it.

Ultimately you pay on top for the privilege of their providing a service for what you are currently doing in what I think can only be described as the most admirable manner. I have heard of cases where the debtor has then had to manage the mismanagement of these organisations.

Why pay them for what you can and are doing yourself in such an able manner?

Very definitely a no-boner. Please please do not consider this option

Ask your own bank first ;)

Their rates are likely to be much better, and if your credit rating is still intact, you can do what my mum does very effectively - move debt along on a 0% credit card and onto another when that expires - much cheaper :thumbsup:

Try to steer clear of the likes of Ocean Finance - Did you see their charges before interest payments on the screen with their TV ad? Shocking!!

Many thanks for your PM and is much appreciated. I have every confidence that you will be able to sort out this mess with aplomb. You strike me as extremely capable and courageous.

As I have been in your position also through no fault of my own, I'd be very strongly inclined to tell these sharks to put a cement sock in it couched in the most refined, measured and politest of terms.

So just keep in there and just think of all the learning you'll have acquired along the way.

As always, my very best wishes Wendy:clap: :clap: :clap:

Originally posted by MissSociable
Well guys i have had interesting point of views...and after looking at all my debts i think the start of sorting my problems out is finding a company that can consolidate my debts? What you guys think? I dont think im going to have any luck looking for a white witch...but i wont give up hope...however in the progress i think i should get a company to consoladate my debts??

What do you guys think? Are these companys dodgy?? Or are they ok to use?? Please if you have any info on such companys or can recommend a company please do let me know. xxx

And thankyou for everyone support...if it wasnt for you guys i wouldnt have thought of such a thing...you have all given me hope! xxx please dont fall into the trap of getting into debt to pay off your debts.....you say you went to the c a b ? i used yo be an advisor for them,did they explain that it all comes down to your priorities? first you must pay your rent,ignore every other debt,ensure you have a roof over your head,secondly,write to your creditors explaining your position

offer them "some" of the money each month,convince them you are not running away,you will pay,but due to circumstances it will take a little longer for them to recoup their money save a copy of the / all letters,next gas and electric,get a token meter,pay for what you use,they will fix it so you pay a little over the odds to pay off your debts to them

any one sending you demands remind them that should it go to court the judge cannot take what you have not got and he/she will make a decision on what you can afford to pay on your present income

lastly.:clap: they dont hang you or put you in prison for debt anymore, make them the offer of smaller repayments or tell them to sue.....you wont lose anything honest

Dragon...just out of interest...not because I want to start a debate on the logistics of whether or not wicca is a valid religion (been there, done that and learnt that sometimes you just have to agree to disagree with people)...how exactly would you propose using magic to somehow get this woman's money back?

I only ask this because I consider myself a wiccan who knows a fair bit about magic and I don't really understand how you could go about making a physical act happen (ie. this "friend" returning the money). I really don't think magic is the answer here, for a number of reasons. Firstly, I personally believe magic should be a last resort when all other routes have failed, and secondly I don't really agree with the ethics of curses etc, and thirdly, which is why I am asking my original question in the first place, I don't think magic would solve the root of the problem.

The only magic I might personally use in this situation would be some sort of spell that surrounds the person in positive energy to help them feel able to fight what sounds like a difficult battle.

Witchcraft meets christianity and results in wicca. Turn the other cheek? If someone does wrong to you then shower them with love? And what is that supposed to achieve other than them thinking you are either insane or a mug and doing worse to your than before?

There are a number of ways of using the craft to achieve these ends, and not all of them are negative - though you could not exactly call them positive either.

Why should magik be a last resort? I equate that to having an electric drill but deciding to not use it and instead dig a small hole using a pin.

Anything and everything you do curses someone in some way. By the way - a hex is not jsut a curse. A curse is a curse. A hex need not necessarily cause harm.

The root of the problem is that the person refuses to return something that is not theres, exploiting the good will of the owner and taking unfair advantage - which has resulted in harm befalling the owner. Reason enough.

Anyhow - this is not a magik users chat room ;)

Dragon

Regardless of my personal faith (ie whether or not I should bless those who hurt me and whether I believe magic should be a last resort) I still don't quite understand how exactly you can solve the root of the problem using magic?

I'm not attacking you or anything I am really just genuinely interested. You have seemed to suggest throughout this thread that magic could somehow "solve" the problem. So how? (or am I just totally mis-interpreting you?)

There are some things best kept between magik users, and not shown to the general public. There is nothing stopping even a none believer from carrying out some of the spells there are - once you get beyond all the rubbish found in most books and spouted by so many wiccan covens.

To go into any detail here would not be suitable.

Suffice to say that the limitations on what magik can do are set only by yourself for yourself.

I do not suggest magik could solve this problem. I state it as a fact. But then - that is something else that can be questioned by none believers and I would not respond to them. ;)

Using magik is exercising. The more you exercise the better you get at it, and the simpler the tasks that lay ahead of you become. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. This is why I rarely use magik as a last resort, but I do generally use it to enhance or back up my actions.

This blessing those who hurt is a christian thing taken on by wiccans, along with "An ye harm none do as ye will" which has already been covered in other threads and so on. you can enjoy your beliefs, but expect them to be questioned by someone at some time and be prepared.

Dragon

Ok cool I understand if you don't want to go into too much detail. But if you do fancy pm-ing me about it sometime I would be interested. It's honestly just that...I like to learn.

As for my personal beliefs...of course they are open to questioning and I have no problem with that. I just didn't want to go into it here as I've discussed it a number of times on this forum and sometimes, like I said before, you have to just accept that other people are going to believe different things to you and that's ok. Whatever works best for each individual is the best religion for them.

Originally posted by Strix
Ask your own bank first ;)

Their rates are likely to be much better, and if your credit rating is still intact, you can do what my mum does very effectively - move debt along on a 0% credit card and onto another when that expires - much cheaper :thumbsup:

Try to steer clear of the likes of Ocean Finance - Did you see their charges before interest payments on the screen with their TV ad? Shocking!!


I agree with strix about 0% credit card IF you pay, dont spend. Also avoid like plagues Citifinancial (aka Associates/Avco Trust) - they've had very substantial bad press. Also heard bad reports of Capital Card. Trade bodies, ie Time-Wasters Annonymous Society, and their Codes of Practice are generally not worth the paper used to print on.

Full members of British Bankers Association www.bba.org.uk/bba/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=103&a=1562 entitles customers to the Bank's compliance with the Banking Code. They used to have a name and shame page, ie banks and lenders that didnt belong to their organisation which they seem to have removed.

I still think that someone like the Consumer Credit Counselling Service are your best bet. They're a charity (funded mostly by a percentage of the money that they recover for the banks being returned to them as a donation), they're free to use and they NEVER advocate getting into debt to consolidate or pay off another debt.

If you look closely enough you'll find the downside to most of these consolidation loans. Either you have to secure them on property (if you don't have any you'll need somebody else to offer theirs in case you don't pay) or there is a ridiculously high interest payment for the level of money borrowed. Don't go there.

CCCS effectively consolidate your debts but (hopefully) get all of the interest on your debts cancelled, and will help with the stress of dealing with all of the creditors. They are respected enough that as soon as you tell a creditor that you are dealing with them all of the silly threatening calls stop.

There is every possibility that you won't jave a good enough credit rating to qualify for a 0% credit card anyway, and since every failed application counts as a further black mark on your credit rating you need to be extremely careful of how many things you apply for, in case this is a further cause of bad credit ratings.

The CCCS have helped me enormously over the last few years. When the CAB couldn't help- they could. If you'd like any more info (BTW I'm not a rep for them or anything) or to talk over practical options to stave off creditors (I have no finance qualifications other than having been on the nasty end of the whole thing) please feel free to PM me. I'm on hols courtesy of my parents from 8/9 to 17/9.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the strength to carry it through and hope that you are successful and can face your future after you get through this.

Personally I would tend towards sorting my problem out for myself MissSociable; and I'd certainly be very cautious about who I enlist help from, you may find it just adds to your problems.

Be cautious and a good judge of a persons character, trust your own gut instinct and never ever allow yourself to be seduced by anyone (people are sometimes eager to offer a quick fix).

Remember, anything that comes easily now, you will usually pay for later down the line, this applies to everything in life, and also, the only place you're going to find free cheese, is in a mouse trap.

There is no 'magic' more powerful, than the power of you. Look no further than yourself, and do not give your power away.


[edit]

p.s. I know this (the above) isn't that brilliant in terms of practical advice (think medusa666 has that base well covered), just something to mull over.

Originally posted by Jamie
Personally I would tend towards sorting my problem out for myself MissSociable; and I'd certainly be very cautious about who I enlist help from, you may find it just adds to your problems.

Be cautious and a good judge of a persons character, trust your own gut instinct and never ever allow yourself to be seduced by anyone (people are sometimes eager to offer a quick fix).

Remember, anything that comes easily now, you will usually pay for later down the line, this applies to everything in life, and also, the only place you're going to find free cheese, is in a mouse trap.

There is no 'magic' more powerful, than the power of you. Look no further than yourself, and do not give your power away.


[edit]

p.s. I know this (the above) isn't that brilliant in terms of practical advice (think medusa666 has that base well covered), just something to mull over.

I think this is excellent advice. My problem started back in 1997 and I distinctly recall a VERY, VERY bad feeling in the pit of my stomach for some unknown reason. To this day I have very good reason to deeply regret ever disregarding this gut feeling.

To underpin Jamie's advice with practical first-hand experience of involving other people, organisations and systems let my story be a salutory lesson; In 1997 I acquired what I did not then know to be a defective computer with what was then claimed to be unlicensed software on finance from my then business partner. Owing to my lack of knowledge and experience at that stage I was totally clueless.

As a result I went through every conceivable advice, mediation and concilation process not to mention Trading Standards all of which proved to be a fruitless waste of time and resources.

Without exception these systems supposedly designed to help and protect us exploited my difficulties, put me in a worse position than I was before their involvement and did the proverbial disappearing act.

Those concerned were far more interested in maintaining the status quo by passing on false and misleading information and then used against me. The upshot is I found myself in ever deeper water with information I provided in good faith being misused, abused and passed on without due diligence, natural justice or any regard to my legal rights.

Although I do recommend CAB because I have heard they are able to produce good work, that is not my 1st hand experience of them. When I first went to them with my problem the advice worker took 1 look at the papers & said they'd taken early retirement to escape from all of that :suspect: I ended up seeing the Unit manager who was as unhelpful as his staff. :suspect:

The Courts & legal system is as bad because they get and make their money from Corporpates (ie banks & finance companies), law firms and barristers. The best you can hope for there is that they wont read your papers and perhaps right off the interest. I have had several offers of Pro Bono (in the public interest) legal help which proved to be worse than useless. And resulted in substantial extremely bad advice about debt management from solicitors, advice bureau workers, council advice workers, trade associations, etc, etc, etc.

Now I steer well clear and do the best I can to muddle through in an unenviable situation to sort things out myself As a result I proceed with utmost caution when involving anyone else. Although some Forum users have offered help and support my experiences entirely justify my need to meet first.

Should you take depoix's advice of writing to these sharks I think it's worth asking at the same time to put a stay on the interest so you then only repay the capital. All of this in a letter clearly marked Recorded Delivery with copy for your files with reciepts attached so you dont scrabble looking for papers.

You are doing extremely well and I am sure your confidence will continue to grow. Just keep in there and dont let them get you down. There is always something to laugh about however grim the picture may seem.:clap: :clap: :clap: