I am really annoyed at the press at the moment as they are constantly sayin that Media and Sociology among other subjects are the easy options to gaining good grades in A-Level.

I saw that new Graham Norton show on BBC 1 and he was also taking the mick out of the matter.

Do people agree that they are "easy" subject or not?

Colonel

Course they are. A hedgehog could do them. I did social policy and politics. did nothing and got a 2:1

Don't rise to em mate!
My nephew did media studies and is now holding down a very lucrative job in London with CNN.

If you want it - go for it!

To hell with the rest. :thumbsup:

Sociology and Media Studies are well-known as 'Mickey Mouse' subjects to study. There is a good reason for this....

I seem to remember the equivalent subject in Science was Metallurgy....

But I definitely wouldn't put Politics into that category, Robbie :suspect:

That's a SERIOUS subject! :D

StarSparkle

mine wasn't. what a bag of bobbins

it is hardly rocket science..

My background is in science and I think there was always some snobbery regarding the more "wooly" displines. If there is no right or wrong answer then the implication is that all you have to do is waffle on to get a good mark.

Of course, we all know there is more to it than that, it's just childish rivalry.

Not sure why sociology seems to be the object of nationwide ridicule though, but I guess someting has to be.

That reminds me: why don't sociologists look out of the window in the morning?

Because then they would have nothing to do in the afternoon.

Originally posted by tslogf74
My background is in science and I think there was always some snobbery regarding the more "wooly" displines. If there is no right or wrong answer then the implication is that all you have to do is waffle on to get a good mark.

Of course, we all know there is more to it than that, it's just childish rivalry.

Not sure why sociology seems to be the object of nationwide ridicule though, but I guess someting has to be.

That reminds me: why don't sociologists look out of the window in the morning?

Because then they would have nothing to do in the afternoon.

waht about sleeping?

Originally posted by tslogf74
My background is in science and I think there was always some snobbery regarding the more "wooly" displines. If there is no right or wrong answer then the implication is that all you have to do is waffle on to get a good mark.

Of course, we all know there is more to it than that, it's just childish rivalry.

Not sure why sociology seems to be the object of nationwide ridicule though, but I guess someting has to be.

That reminds me: why don't sociologists look out of the window in the morning?

Because then they would have nothing to do in the afternoon.

because a yound science graduate passed his sociology A level with no prior knowledge of the subject after only 2 weeks of revision.

His tactic was slimline study guides and looking at old papers.

Actually looking at old papers is how I passed most of my exams.

I passed most of my uni exams by using A Level sociology essays with a bit more referencing

I'll try and defend media studies here, not because I do it, but because I feel it needs defending.

The reason people try and say Media is a 'mickey mouse' subject is because they think that it is much easier than any other A level. This is a claim without justification IMO. As a student who has done a variety of A levels from the Physics, Chemistry and Maths spectrum through to Media Studies and a qualification in Governance, I feel annoyed that some of my successes which I deem to be of the same level are cheapened by saying 'oh anybody could do that'.

What I think is the reason is an idea about engagement with a subject and the quality of teaching. I don't think it will surprise many of you to find that media, (and presumably sociology) covers a range of topics that we are bombarded with every single day. My final media exams were on a project of my choosing (where i picked to research the invisibility of women in the western genre both on and off camera) and a set of 3 essays on the topics of Discussion of film genre in terms of audience, institutions and film-makers; The discussion of British Soap Opera and it's appeal and also A discussion on the ways magazines use gendered stereotypes. These topics aren't easy by no means but what they ARE is subjects we watch or read every day. We all watch genre films, we all read magazines and most of us watch soap opera. The students of media studies are completing a subject that they can engage with, where the rules and observations come from a lifetime of media bombardment. Very few other subjects can claim such bombardment at A-level. You don't use calculus every day unless it is your job, you don't draw carbon chains all day unless you're an organic chemist, you don't need to know what an astronomical unit is unless you work for NASA.

continued on next post

However, for that ever required social acceptance, it helps if you know who is sleeping with who in Coronation Street (it is a conversation starter, a social enabler), it helps if you know what magazine to buy, it helps if you know the genre of a film.

Media studies asks the questions why and how about these things, the fact they are so everyday means it is easier to grasp the basic concepts. In some respects, media studies is the most important subject in the world for an assertive person. The MLP control that runs our world is based of buzzwords, signs and the society decoding them correctly in order to maintain hegemony.

As for quality of teaching, because it is such a new subject compared to others, and it tends to attract people who like to be on the cutting edge of everything (technology, society, the global village) you tend to get younger teachers. I'm not saying they are better teachers, but they have the added benefit of being a small step away from the students themselves, they can understand the student's mindset better and explain it in terms they will visualise more accurately.

As for the criticism that there is no right answer, if this was the case, why isn't English criticised as much? Why isn't History, thats just media studies 400 years ago!

Let me put it this way. If you had a subject that you'd be a casual observer for all you life, could engage with because it affects your daily life and that had more engaging teachers, wouldn't you do better than one where this wasn't the normal case? Of course you would!

Media isn't a mickey mouse subject, it is cutting edge, vibrant detailed and forces you to think about the world around you. Science is too far up an ivory tower to see it's real world implications, and they don't show them to students.By the way, I did equally well in my Maths A-level as I did My Media, I got A's in both and I'll tell you, I worked a lot harder for the media than I ever did for the maths.

Wilf

Definitely easy, fair enough I didnt do Sociolgy ior Media Studies at A level. I dont sociology at GCSE and Psychology at A Level, Psychology was very easy compared to the other subjects I studied.

Brainthrust you have it exactly right. These subjects evolve around everyday life. You have to have an opinion in Sociology or Media A-Level, whereas in maths, you can't argue with fact. These 'Mickey mouse' subjects require an opinion.

Originally posted by Colonel
Brainthrust you have it exactly right. These subjects evolve around everyday life. You have to have an opinion in Sociology or Media A-Level, whereas in maths, you can't argue with fact. These 'Mickey mouse' subjects require an opinion.

Thats what I never understand, I've always questioned things in maths and physics... I still dont accept the way some things work in maths and physics... and have left tutors a bit miffed before when I've questioned something they cant whole heartidly answer because they themselves have always took black for black and white for white...

only a fool takes everything he's told as fact, an intelligent person will question everything and decide themselves whats right or wrong and why.

If I have a briefcase with £50,000 in it and I decide to multiply my £50,000 by nothing... by mathematical theory shouldn't it disapear? :?

anyways, I dont personally believe either of the subjects are easier than any others... same as I dont believe GCSE's or A levels are any easier than they used to be...

I think the fact most people are neglecting to see is that 10 years ago we didnt have multiple web-sites with excently written revision guides, ways to structure your learning etc... nor did they have books on every subject on everything you need to know to pass your exams...

its easier to pass if you want to because there are far more resources available for people to learn the material, most of the subjects at GCSE and A level are still highly passable by memorizing a lot of data and rules... even the english language is a bunch of syntax to follow...

When i started at 6th form before i moved to college i did sociology as one of my classes ...... easy peasy! A whole lesson of hardly any writing and just 'discussing' things. Excellent. The whole thing is based on personal opinions and there aren't many right or wrong answers.

I dont think media studies is easy . My child went straight from school into college for two years then onto university.All those years of studies without a break although it did pay off when he graduated with good grades.He is now doing a job he loves and as long as hes happy then surely its better to do a job you want to go to every day than to dread having to go into work each day.All students have to work hard no matter what their subject :|

I think no subject can be described as a 'mickey mouse subject'.

I do English Language and Sociology at the University of Sheffield and am sick of people pulling the same face or making the same snide remarks when they hear the word 'sociology'.

I have so much respect for my friends that do Genetics or Physics as i wouldn't have a hope in hell of understanding a word in one lecture let alone get a degree in it. But the majority of the people i know who do these science, fact-based degrees don't have the first clue about essay writing or comparing different peoples views, opinions and theories. In the same way that i hate having to answer questions with one word answers which are either wrong or right. There is no grey area around it where you can argue a point.

Different disciplines are taught in completely different ways and therefore shouldn't ,and can't, be compared to each other.

Originally posted by lexatron
I think no subject can be described as a 'mickey mouse subject'.

I do English Language and Sociology at the University of Sheffield and am sick of people pulling the same face or making the same snide remarks when they hear the word 'sociology'.

I have so much respect for my friends that do Genetics or Physics as i wouldn't have a hope in hell of understanding a word in one lecture let alone get a degree in it. But the majority of the people i know who do these science, fact-based degrees don't have the first clue about essay writing or comparing different peoples views, opinions and theories. In the same way that i hate having to answer questions with one word answers which are either wrong or right. There is no grey area around it where you can argue a point.


I dont think is true at all. Science is all about comparing different ideas and critically evaluating them/comparing them. This is what research is.

Originally posted by dee40
I dont think media studies is easy . My child went straight from school into college for two years then onto university.All those years of studies without a break although it did pay off when he graduated with good grades.He is now doing a job he loves and as long as hes happy then surely its better to do a job you want to go to every day than to dread having to go into work each day.All students have to work hard no matter what their subject :|

Working hard doesnt make a subject hard. For example cleaning plates in a kitchen isnt inherently hard. But many people work hard at it if thats their job. But nevertheless it is quite clearly easier to master this job, than say the job of being prime minister or being a rocket scientists. So the job of a kitchen plate cleaner can be considered relativley easy compared to many other jobs.

I think the same goes for media studies. You might have to work hard and learn lots of things/write essays, but in the end the concepts are not difficult to pick up compared to say maths or physics (or a myriad of other subjects). So it is easier to do this degree, because it is easier to learn the skills required to do it.

Originally posted by nightrider
Working hard doesnt make a subject hard. For example cleaning plates in a kitchen isnt inherently hard. But many people work hard at it if thats their job. But nevertheless it is quite clearly easier to master this job, than say the job of being prime minister or being a rocket scientists. So the job of a kitchen plate cleaner can be considered relativley easy compared to many other jobs.

I think the same goes for media studies. You might have to work hard and learn lots of things/write essays, but in the end the concepts are not difficult to pick up compared to say maths or physics (or a myriad of other subjects). So it is easier to do this degree, because it is easier to learn the skills required to do it.

Oh I dunno, although I wasn't a media studies student ever, they had some pretty hardcore reading - Lyotard, Foucault, Lacan etc. Not saying it all made sense, but they are not the easiest concepts to grasp (he says having pretty much given up on it himself). It's also a very multidisciplinary subject, just like many sciences, in that it requires a degree of mastery over instruments and equipment.

However. The size of the university sector is increasing. Once it was 5% of school leavers. Now it is edging at what, 40, 50%? Unquestionably there is a dilution of ability across the board.

Not Sociology or Media Studies, but Leisure & Tourism is viewed in a similar light and some example GCSE questions were in the Sunday Telegraph. Such brainteasers included:

"Other than Indian food, name one other type of food often provided by take-away restaurants."

The next question, worth three marks, read: "Describe what customers need to do to receive a delivery service from an Indian take-away restaurant."

These questions were 4 marks of the total 91. Other challenging questions included describing "your own Saturday leisure activities and the time you spend on them" (four marks) and "what is meant by a short-break holiday" (two marks).

Realistically, how can anyone not describe such an exam as being easy? Also, how can such a GCSE hold the same value as a GCSE in, say, Physics?

Brainthrust - I think you put forward some interesting points. I was (and to an extent still am) of the opinion that Media Studies and such-like are Mickey Mouse subjects, but I have taken your ideas into consideration. I think it speaks very well of the subject that you - a former student - are able to argue your case so well.

I have no problem with Media Studies as a A-Level subject, but I really can't see the point in taking it as a degree. It's unlikely to lead to a job unless you have a lot of work experience or talent to recommend you.

I would have thought that these days, where the media is all-pervasive, a curriculum to study its causes and effects would be pretty valuable? Labelling entire subjects as jokes is in itself pretty anti-intellectual...

As for the argument that GCSEs are easy, I'm sure that issue will rumble on until we're all flying round on hoverboards dressed in silver suits. It runs along similar lines to the one that states that people coming out of school can't spell or add up any more, and is equally false.

Why do people take the mick out of these subjects? Because (statistically, i.e. based on studies such as ALIS, see http://www.alisproject.org/) you need much better GCSE grades to do well at A-level in subjects like maths/physics than you do for media studies and sociology. Obviously, there will always be individuals who buck the trend, but overall a less able student has a better chance of getting an A in a subject like media studies than they would in, say, physics.

Does this make the subject easier? I'd say yes.
Does it make the subject less valuable? I'm not sure.

Media Studies - is that instruction on how to use a video / DVD player?

Originally posted by JonJParr
Media Studies - is that instruction on how to use a video / DVD player?

No - that would be something useful to know! (Only joking, before the Media Studies people start!) ;)

StarSparkle :)

**** off the lot of you.

Seriously.

I'm about to start Sociology at Birmingham University with AAAB at A-level and I'd thank you all to stop taking the **** out of something that I love to study so much!

I am really passionate about the subject, and can't quite see how a subject that is basically a culimination of history, politics, social policy, the study of ethnic diversity, and more, and all of the sub-topics within can be classed as easy.

I am not going to study it because it is easy (which I don't believe it to be), but because I think it's a fantastic subject. Maybe you should all take your heads out of your arses and realise that education is about learning, not about impressing people with a maths degree that you found boring as hell.

Originally posted by xafier


If I have a briefcase with £50,000 in it and I decide to multiply my £50,000 by nothing... by mathematical theory shouldn't it disapear? :?

[/B]

:confused: :confused:

This is why you doubt maths?

How would you multiply a physical object by zero?

Originally posted by noseyrosie
**** off the lot of you.

Seriously.

I'm about to start Sociology at Birmingham University with AAAB at A-level and I'd thank you all to stop taking the **** out of something that I love to study so much!

I am really passionate about the subject, and can't quite see how a subject that is basically a culimination of history, politics, social policy, the study of ethnic diversity, and more, and all of the sub-topics within can be classed as easy.

I am not going to study it because it is easy (which I don't believe it to be), but because I think it's a fantastic subject. Maybe you should all take your heads out of your arses and realise that education is about learning and inspiration, not about impressing people with a maths degree that you found boring as hell.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
**** off the lot of you.

Seriously.

I'm about to start Sociology at Birmingham University with AAAB at A-level and I'd thank you all to stop taking the **** out of something that I love to study so much!

I am really passionate about the subject, and can't quite see how a subject that is basically a culimination of history, politics, social policy, the study of ethnic diversity, and more, and all of the sub-topics within can be classed as easy.

I am not going to study it because it is easy (which I don't believe it to be), but because I think it's a fantastic subject. Maybe you should all take your heads out of your arses and realise that education is about learning, not about impressing people with a maths degree that you found boring as hell.

Yes it is about learning. Doesnt change any issues that some degrees are harder than others. To say otherwise is absurd. All degrees contain different content. It is inevitable that some will be harder than others and this difference may be large or small depending on which subjects you compare.

Originally posted by nightrider
Yes it is about learning. Doesnt change any issues that some degrees are harder than others. To say otherwise is absurd. All degrees contain different content. It is inevitable that some will be harder than others and this difference may be large or small depending on which subjects you compare.

I don't agree actually, I believe that yes, with more discussion/opinion/essay based courses you can doss around , but if, as we agree, the degree is about learning, they haven't fulfilled the purpose of it anyway. On the other hand, someone like myself will go away and read more in depth texts and theories, therefore being challenged more.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
I don't agree actually, I believe that yes, with more discussion/opinion/essay based courses you can doss around , but if, as we agree, the degree is about learning, they haven't fulfilled the purpose of it anyway. On the other hand, someone like myself will go away and read more in depth texts and theories, therefore being challenged more.

It isnt really part of the degree if you dont need to do that to get the degree. I would argue the difficulty of a degree rests on the compulsory content you need to understand/learn to get a good mark.

In my degree I can think of many far more advanced topics in the area I could learn in my own time, but they wouldnt help an awful lot in getting a degree that doesnt examine them. So it doesnt have relevance to the difficulty of a particular degree, unless you need to voluntarily learn additional things (that are not taught or you are not told to learn yourself) to get say a 1st.

This can apply in any degree, so if it were true that voluntary work increases difficulty then you could do this in any degree and the relative difference in difficulty may not change by any large amount.

Originally posted by nightrider
Yes it is about learning. Doesnt change any issues that some degrees are harder than others. To say otherwise is absurd. All degrees contain different content. It is inevitable that some will be harder than others and this difference may be large or small depending on which subjects you compare.

In my experience degree discplines vary so much in terms of skills required that to say which is "harder" is reductive and pretty meaningless. In addition, the way that degrees are taught means that part of the challenge lies in the process of learning itself, rather than simply jumping through exam-shaped hoops (which is what GCSEs and A-Levels seem to be all about, unfortunately).

Originally posted by noseyrosie
**** off the lot of you.

Seriously.

I'm about to start Sociology at Birmingham University with AAAB at A-level and I'd thank you all to stop taking the **** out of something that I love to study so much!

I am really passionate about the subject, and can't quite see how a subject that is basically a culimination of history, politics, social policy, the study of ethnic diversity, and more, and all of the sub-topics within can be classed as easy.

I am not going to study it because it is easy (which I don't believe it to be), but because I think it's a fantastic subject. Maybe you should all take your heads out of your arses and realise that education is about learning, not about impressing people with a maths degree that you found boring as hell.


there is absolutely nothing wrong with studying sociology. In fact, it was my favourite subject and I have a degree in social policy and politics.

I think the issue tends to be the easyness (and lets be fair, if you studied sociology at A level then a degree course is just an extension of that). Therefore, it is fairly simple for anyone with decent educational ability and intellegence to get a 2:2.

I must admit I did and do read loads around the subject and it is something that really interests me. However, I never really read much specificly around the assignments we got. Most people didn't bother.

with those A levels and from the way you come across on here you seem like the person who would succeed in wahtever subject you take. With Sociology (and it was officially the easiest subject at my tin pot excuse for a university) you will get people looking down their noses at it. Social Sciences are not held in very high esteem by people from scientific/mathematical backgrounds.

The funny thing about the whole degree thing is that it is wonderful for all these people I've worked with in the past who laugh at my degree as they have firsts in Law, English, Engineering etc but they were all doing the same job as me and generally paid less. Most people with degres wont pursue a job in that area anyway.

You are best off to do a degree that interests you and that you are good at. I've always thought that sociology is a great subject to study as it inspires you to read around politics and philosophy as well as history and social policy.

In my experience most of the things I've learnt in life have been from books and not from teachers or school.

I'd also argue that sociology makes you be able to question and argue points. It also teaches critical analysis and research methodology. Most people who have got good degrees in traditional subjects lack any of these skills in my experience and they are the most important skills in life.

Media studies on the other hand.......

If people didnt study media we would all be quite bored.What about tv and the cinema these are media.Everyone likes music either to listen to or to watch.The papers we read and the theatres we go to all parts of media.:)

Originally posted by dee40
If people didnt study media we would all be quite bored.What about tv and the cinema these are media.Everyone likes music either to listen to or to watch.The papers we read and the theatres we go to all parts of media.:)

Citizen Kane was made by Orson Welles, a man who never studied Media Studies.

Reality TV shows in which Z List celebs vie to artificially inseminate pigs was probably put together by a bunch of folks with Media Studies degrees.

I don't think one needs a degree in MS to produce entertaining film or television. A writer doesn't need a degree to write a best selling or critically acclaimed novel.

The reason why people have a low opinion of Media Studies and associated degrees is probably the perceived lack of intellectual rigour. There is nothing wrong with studying such things, but I doubt the study involved is equivalent to that required for a degree such as Mathematics, physics, biology or the more quantitative social sciences.

Joe

I studied media studies as a mature student, it's made me alot more aware of what i'm consuming.

I think people perceive media studies as a "mickey mouse" subject but really it's not. It's made me more cynical about what i watch or consume. I know everyone one has an agenda.

Theadore Adorno's idea of the culture industry has made me think more about life. I agree whith alot of what he has to say. I have always tried to be differen't. I think I am more aware of what is going on around me.

I miss alan.

Originally posted by Katsz1179
I studied media studies as a mature student, it's made me alot more aware of what i'm consuming.

I think people perceive media studies as a "mickey mouse" subject but really it's not. It's made me more cynical about what i watch or consume. I know everyone one has an agenda.


You must have been a very naive undergrad if you didn't know that before you started!

if you study the media with a technical aspect it's ok.

me, I realised tv was **** years ago and don't watch it anymore. I went to a first year film study class last year at uni. Dear Gods. How can people tuen up and have never watched subtiltled films? Westerns? find all Black and White films boring.

basically, if you don't look at the media cynically then there is no hope to start with.

It's all common sense.

Unfortunately, no university seem to teach common sense classes. Maybe they should start.

Well never mind all those subjects, check this one out!:

http://www-online.shef.ac.uk:3001/pls/live/web_cal.cal_unit_detail?unit_code=ACE1060&ctype=AUT+SEM&start_date=30-SEP-02&mand=Optional


hmmmm... :confused: