A number of times now when i'm on the bus going and coming back from town i see a house on Nottingham Street with a flag of the St George flying outside..i know this area has a mixed race community.so it got me wondering is this person a racist or just patriotic.

What do you think?

Strange question.....look at your avatar.:o

Originally posted by deano
Strange question.....look at your avatar.:o It matches the one i have on my bedroom wall and before anyone asks i'm not a racist.

Like MORRISSEY says in the song Irish Blood, English Heart

I've been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling
Shameful, racist or partial

:)

What i can't understand is why can it be percieved as racist to have a george cross?
people can stick whatever flag they like up as far as i'm concerned:thumbsup:

Many of my 'Asian' neighbours had a huge Union Jack hanging outside his house during Euro 2004.

Should I have beaten them up for it?

Should they have beaten me up for not flying the flag?

The minds boggles...

Edit - for those who don't know where Nottingham Street (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?local=h&scale=10000&lon=-1.4661&lat=53.3954&icon=x) is, it's between the Pitsmoor and Burngreave Roads. Yes, that's right, Pitsmoor and Burngreave.

I suspect if the residents were really bothered about it, we've had the riots by now...

I dont think people are bothered about union jacks flying or the st georges cross. It's a story that comes up from time to time about local communites complaining about them. They usually turn out to be false or have some health and safety aspect to them.

Unless it's up all the time i'd say it has something to do with England playing tonight :wink:

Like MORRISSEY says in the song Irish Blood, English Heart

from the guy who says "
England for the English !

I've seen this flag too...

But it makes me so mad that people don't display the Union or St George's flag for fear of being daubed 'racist'; no wonder this country has lost any sense of its own identity as people are too afraid to show any patriotism. It's way time to reclaim this flag...

If being racist means being proud to fly your own nation's flag - then fine i'm a racist for one!

Originally posted by dudu
If being racist means being proud to fly your own nation's flag - then fine i'm a racist for one!

dude, take a deeeeeep breath and relax...

Dudu, as I pointed out I don't think people have got a problem with people putting flags up. What happens is somebody is told to take a flag down if they have got a flagpole that is deemed unsafe and the rightwing take hold of stories like this and use them for some cheap publicity.

Jon you need to get a grip my friend. Only in this country would someone worry that flying a national flag could be construed as racist. Would someone call an Australian racist for flying an Aussie flag or a French person racist for flying the tricolor - I don't think so. As Abdul quite rightly points out, the vast majority of the population living in and around Nottingham Street don't give a toss about the flag. What they probably do care about is living in harmony with the rest of the community. When people like you take something innocent (like flying the English flag) and give it racist connotations you are making it that bit more difficult for people to live in harmony and also playing right into the hands of racist groups by causing resentment and the inevitable backlash.

Just because some-one puts up the English Flag doesn't mean they are reacist.

We should be proud of it & not lable people that choose to fly it as being racists.

What would be said if a person from another country put up their national flag? Nothing! That's what!

:rant:

Originally posted by Shopkeeper
Just because some-one puts up the English Flag doesn't mean they are reacist.

We should be proud of it & not lable people that choose to fly it as being racists.

What would be said if a person from another country put up their national flag? Nothing! That's what!

:rant:
Who called the folks with the flag rascists?:confused:

Didn't Jon ask a question and invite discussion?:confused:

And what do the flags of other countries have to do with it?:confused:

And please read scoop's post as the phenomenon he describes seems to the inevitable outcome of all these discussion threads on the subject!:rolleyes:

it was royjames house :)

Well in never expected The Spanish Inquisition, like Carmine said i only asked a question..i just see this flag when i'm on the bus i don't know who lives there......everyone has a right to fly a flag outside good luck to him :thumbsup: or her

Oh come now,everyone knows you must not fly anything which shows you to be a patriot.
Its just not PC.:loopy:

Originally posted by Jon
Well in never expected The Spanish Inquisition

Ah ha- nobody expects the Spanish inquisition:hihi:

Originally posted by royjames
Oh come now,everyone knows you must not fly anything which shows you to be a patriot.
Its just not PC.:loopy:

No you got that wrong, hijacking and flying something while attaching it to a political party that is racist is non pc.

Flying a flag and showing patriotism is fine in by most rational thinking people.

Oh come now,everyone knows you must not fly anything which shows you to be a patriot.
So how do you explain the flags that have been flying for years and have not been taken down?

Originally posted by f_g
from the guy who says "
England for the English !

That lyric is sung in third person and as such isn't a personal statement and as Morrissey is Irish living in the UK/USA, wonder what that would make him.

Originally posted by scoop
Jon you need to get a grip my friend. Only in this country would someone worry that flying a national flag could be construed as racist. Would someone call an Australian racist for flying an Aussie flag or a French person racist for flying the tricolor - I don't think so. As Abdul quite rightly points out, the vast majority of the population living in and around Nottingham Street don't give a toss about the flag. What they probably do care about is living in harmony with the rest of the community. When people like you take something innocent (like flying the English flag) and give it racist connotations you are making it that bit more difficult for people to live in harmony and also playing right into the hands of racist groups by causing resentment and the inevitable backlash.

Australians are positively encouraged to fly their National and their State flags they are even provided free on request. This is not the case in the UK. The Union Flag is the flag of Great Britain the flag of St George is the flag of England if people don't like either of them they should leave.

As for living in harmony, where do you get that idea? Is living in harmony giving asians the right to attack people in the street?

Is living in harmony ethnicly cleansing non asians from 'their' areas by repeated assaults, verbal abuse, daubing racialist grafiti on the doors, and thowing bricks through the windows of the elderly non asians still living in 'their' areas?

Is the stoning of Pubs by gangs of moslem youths in some areas because they serve alcohol living in harmony?
I think not.

They, the moslem asians and other moslem races do not want nor does the qu'ran permit them to live in harmony with non moslems.

They are the racists.

Originally posted by boyface
No you got that wrong, hijacking and flying something while attaching it to a political party that is racist is non pc.

Flying a flag and showing patriotism is fine in by most rational thinking people.

I would suggest you examine closely the BNP manifesto there is nothing racist in it. neither do the BNP preach hatred or promote or condone violence against anyone.

Flying the Union Flag is technicaly illegal in the UK apart from specificaly authorised buildings or places. But others, well they can fly whichever flag they choose just as they can attack people in the street without fear of prosecution.

I see redhawk is back peddling his version of racial harmony. Must put the flag out to celebrate! :hihi:

Originally posted by redrobbo
I see redhawk is back peddling his version of racial harmony. Must put the flag out to celebrate! :hihi:


Islam is not a race it is a religion, and it hardly preaches anything close to harmony unless you happen to be a follower of Islam. The founder of this particular cult was a psychotic killer and a paedophile, most people these days who hear voices telling them to kill any who disbelieve would be in Broadmoor. Thankfully he died a long time ago pity the cult he created didnt die with him.

Jon asks a valid question! 99.9% of people who display the flaf are not racist at all but just patriotic. Something that is vastly missing from many residents in this country.

In the US and many other countries flags are hung from public buildings, reatisl stores and many homes as people are proud of their country. I think Brits being more reserved plays a large part of this and i admit that if I displayed the flag outside my home IMO i would feel a bit of an outcast and feel that some will deem me to be racist.

I felt veryt proud when the World cup was on and many cars displayed the St George Flag, pity they were all taken down afterwards.

And please read scoop's post as the phenomenon he describes seems to the inevitable outcome of all these discussion threads on the subject!:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

I'll have you know I am a Laydee!!

Originally posted by vidster
Unless it's up all the time i'd say it has something to do with England playing tonight :wink:
Bet it go taken down pretty sharpish then ;)

Flying the Union Flag is technicaly illegal in the UK apart from specificaly authorised buildings or places. But others, well they can fly whichever flag they choose just as they can attack people in the street without fear of prosecution

Have you any evidence for this statement. The only cases I've come across where this has happened they have been taken down due to health and saftey issues.

About 3 years ago I was on the tube in London. A group of Americans got on in a very excited state. When asked what was up they told me they had just witnessed some fanatical religious or political group burning the British flag opposite Kensington Palace. Although American, they intervened to stop our flag being burned and could not understand why British people were not helping them prevent it and just walking on by. I read later that there had been various anti capitalist demos outside Kensington Palace and that various foreign campaign mobs had joined in on the action so I don't know who exactly was responsible for the flag burning.

Question - as a nation does this episode show we are

A. Strong
B. Very weak
C. Just complacent

Originally posted by redhawk

They, the moslem asians and other moslem races do not want nor does the qu'ran permit them to live in harmony with non moslems.

They are the racists.

Whilst you were doing your obviously in-depth study of the Qu'ran, you must have missed 2.62 of The Cow which reads:

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

Hardly inflammatory, is it? Seems to promote religious harmony, if anything.

Originally posted by mattyh
Whilst you were doing your obviously in-depth study of the Qu'ran, you must have missed 2.62 of The Cow which reads:

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

Hardly inflammatory, is it? Seems to promote religious harmony, if anything.

So which bit do they quote when the sucide bombers say they are doing it in the name of Islam?

I don't know, but Islam certainly doesn't promote disharmony amongst Muslims and non-Muslims. When Spain was a part of the Islamic Empire, Jews, Christians and Muslims all lived harmoniously side by side, and the ruling Muslims respected other people's religions. And I would hardly say that a bunch of radical fundamentalists are representative of the entire Muslim community, would you?

Originally posted by mattyh
I don't know, but Islam certainly doesn't promote disharmony amongst Muslims and non-Muslims. When Spain was a part of the Islamic Empire, Jews, Christians and Muslims all lived harmoniously side by side, and the ruling Muslims respected other people's religions. And I would hardly say that a bunch of radical fundamentalists are representative of the entire Muslim community, would you?


what does this mean then?

Surah 9. 123:

“O you who believe, fight those of the unbelievers who live near to you and let them see how harsh you can be.”

I've lost count how many times we have done islam good or bad. This thread is about somebody flying a flag.

all this about muslims and islam and flying the flag being a racial action is crap ...


we as a country need to be more patriotic...

can you imagine this same discussion taking place in Chicago, L.A, or New York because someone was flying the stars and stripes ???

if someone chooses to fly the st george in patriotic spirit of their country -be it just for the duration of a footy match or otherwise, then IMO this is a beautiful and patriotic thing to do...

we should see more of it....

if people of another race decide that this is an action designed to target them then they need to have a rethink on living in this country - where the flag is a symbol of pride and patriotism.

if muslims who live in this country take offence at our customs and heritage and anything that comes with it, why did they choose to live in this country...

and this is not a racial slur either b4 anyone starts....

the problem with the racial conotations of the flag is down to mindless idiots like the bnp,who only aid to make the situation worse...

Fly tha flag - show your pride !

get over the racism rubbish i have a st. georges cross in the back of my van my wife has them on her reg plate i wear clothes with them on, all this is because i am proud to be english no other reason its where i come from where i live , the english national football team has them on the strip are they racist ??? , thats it my rant over back to normallity now

:thumbsup:

Good post pal, strange when you have to explain why you have a st george flag flying in sheffield isnt it????:loopy: :loopy:

Originally posted by brooksy
...strange when you have to explain why you have a st george flag flying in sheffield isnt it????:loopy: :loopy:
Stranger still that people actually feel the need to explain in the first place.

A more paranoid mind might suspect that they were trying to provoke us lefties into dancing around and yelling rascist...:hihi:

its swastikas youve got to be wary of, see one of those flying outside a house

run

Originally posted by melthebell
its swastikas youve got to be wary of, see one of those flying outside a house

run #

I have seen a whole wall covered with swastikas and they were the left handed rotation, but I challenge you to find a Nazi in a Buddhist Temple. A symbol has only the meaning that is ascribed to it at the time and place as has the Union flag and the flag of St George. Patriotisim is not wrong, racisim is.

The BNP is not racist, does not march, does not incite or condone violence and will not tolerate any but legal actions in support of its campaigns. Please do not confuse the BNP with the Nationalist Alliance and the National Front and their activities.

Originally posted by bandit
all this about muslims and islam and flying the flag being a racial action is crap ...



the problem with the racial conotations of the flag is down to mindless idiots like the bnp,who only aid to make the situation worse...

Fly tha flag - show your pride !

Mindless idiots? I'd rather be a mindless idiot than a blind fool who can not see what is happening around me.

Redhawk your wasting your time with this lot mate,they are all either brain washed or liberal lefties.
I have had this conversation with lots of them,they just dont seem to care about what is happening to this country,they would not know the meaning of patriotism if it smacked them in the mouth.
A waste of time mate.

Originally posted by royjames
they would not know the meaning of patriotism if it smacked them in the mouth.
A waste of time mate.

You were born too late Roy

Can't see you making that statement back in 1939 without getting a smack in the mouth yourself......

No matter which uniform you were wearing :|

Next I will not be able to walk around while wearing my England shirt without being called a racist...

Originally posted by royjames
Redhawk your wasting your time with this lot mate,they are all either brain washed or liberal lefties.
I have had this conversation with lots of them,they just dont seem to care about what is happening to this country,they would not know the meaning of patriotism if it smacked them in the mouth.
A waste of time mate.

Patriotism?
Last refuge of the scoundrel mate.

:suspect: This thread is about somebody flying a flag:suspect:
I like to see the St George flag, i too fly the flag on my back yard im proud to be british, i put the flag up for the last world cup and its been there since. Im no rascist. There are too many people that see "rascist" remarks when we start to talk about being british etc, we are all human, we are all different, its that what makes us all individuals... not a colour or belief.:cool:

An Englishman flying the English flag is being racist only if he's deliberately trying to wind up people who aren't white. Not many people are really that stupid. Anyway, no-one complains about Glasgow and Edinburgh being full of saltires, so why do people worry about English cities being full of St George's Crosses?

Originally posted by carcrash
Have you any evidence for this statement. The only cases I've come across where this has happened they have been taken down due to health and saftey issues.

actually you are infact correct it is only where it poses a threat to health and saftey the law states quite clearly that

'The Union flag, commonly known as the Union Jack, which is directed to be used in all Her Majesty’s flags, banners, standards and ensigns, both at sea and on land, combines the national flags of England, Scotland and Ireland.
It may be flown on land by every citizen of the Commonwealth, as well as on government buildings.'

I knew there was some restriction but had to check 'Halsburies Laws' for the detail which I should have done before making an inaccurate post. My lectureres in legal practise allways told us to never rely on memory about what the law is, check check and check again. I stand corrected.

the st georges flag is usually associated with thugs thats why it has racist connotations. if you see a report of football hooligans then there are people waving the st georges flag while beating the crap outta someone.

if i saw a big butch bloke with a st georges flag or a england footy shirt with his beer belly popping out the bottom....then i would think...heres trouble and if i was not white..i would prob cross the road or turn and walk another way.

i think its the england football hooligans have made it become a symbol of hatred more than representative of a united country.

Originally posted by MTheo
the st georges flag is usually associated with thugs thats why it has racist connotations. if you see a report of football hooligans then there are people waving the st georges flag while beating the crap outta someone.

if i saw a big butch bloke with a st georges flag or a england footy shirt with his beer belly popping out the bottom....then i would think...heres trouble and if i was not white..i would prob cross the road or turn and walk another way.

i think its the england football hooligans have made it become a symbol of hatred more than representative of a united country. Sorry to scare you MTheo i'm the big bloke with a st georges flag and england footy shirt with my beer belly popping out the bottom.... :hihi: so does my Avatar mean i'm racist?

Originally posted by Jon
Sorry to scare you MTheo i'm the big bloke with a st georges flag and england footy shirt with my beer belly popping out the bottom.... :hihi: so does my Avatar mean i'm racist?

no it doesnt mean ur racist...but i would prob assume you would more likely be then someone who didnt have it as there avatar.


(and im scared of jon now.....eeiikk haha)

Originally posted by Jon
It matches the one i have on my bedroom wall and before anyone asks i'm not a racist.Why would we think that ? This is England, you have the english flag !

If I were living in Sweden and had the blue/yellow flag on me wall would you be saying I'm a racist ?Originally posted by md25
An Englishman flying the English flag is being racist only if he's deliberately trying to wind up people who aren't white.for the two pennies worth: Are all foreigners not white then ? Germans, French, Dutch and wotnot...

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
for the two pennies worth: Are all foreigners not white then ? Germans, French, Dutch and wotnot... Racism isn't the same as xenophobia!

are asians who fly their own flag classed as racist as well ? are jamaicans who fly their flag racist ? i know im going to get slated for saying this but, a minority of them will be, just as a minority of brits, welsh,scot, irish and the rest of the coutries in the world will be, it`s nothing to do with the flag its the persons actions, i personally treat people the same as they treat me, if someone is racist towards me then i will be the same back but only to that person not to all of them, i have asian friends, jamacian friends, indian friends, french friends etc etc not once has the conversation turned to racism, im british and proud to be so, construe what you want from that statement but it means what it says

Why worry about the flag and racism, there is lady lives near me who flies the Bolivian flag (her ancesters came fom Bolivia or she was born there). She also flies at times the Union Jack, st Georges flag and the Yorkshire flag. Let the right wing nutters make something of that.

Originally posted by md25
Racism isn't the same as xenophobia! Racism is a form of xenophobia...
Racism is the hatered/fear of people who are of a different race, creed, blah blah, not JUST the colour of your skin, which is a misconception I once put out one of my colleague from Pakistan (He told me) who thought it'd be smart to call me a frog... When I returned a similar comment I got a rant back, proving my point.
It goes both ways

It matches the one i have on my bedroom wall and before anyone asks i'm not a racist.

Like MORRISSEY says in the song Irish Blood, English Heart

I've been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling
Shameful, racist or partial

:)

i think to be proud of england is not rasist but to use it for glamorizing england with voilence and thugs and yobs is nonsence........

like this music that glamorizing voilence with white english kids is dissapointing to see ....herd of talapaton time to blow????? channel u .... well that is what is happning an i dont like it at all , iv told my son to not be influenced by this rubbish...

ST George flags and other stuff for sale pm me if interested

A number of times now when i'm on the bus going and coming back from town i see a house on Nottingham Street with a flag of the St George flying outside..i know this area has a mixed race community.so it got me wondering is this person a racist or just patriotic.

What do you think?


I really feel that for someone to even come up with this thought, is a shame.

Why can't you just be proud to be English and not consider who you might offend.

Proud to be an ozzie, and no matter where I am in the world my flag stands proud in my window, as should the St George, Union Jack etc for you. I also don't need a world cup to find an excuse for flying it. Good on you to those who proudly fly the flag of England

Does PC stand for "press-created"? That's what most of these "political correctness gone mad" stories are.

*** Newsflash - tabloid newspapers tell lies ***

It matches the one i have on my bedroom wall and before anyone asks i'm not a racist.

Like MORRISSEY says in the song Irish Blood, English Heart

I've been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling
Shameful, racist or partial

:)whats st georges flag in the op,got to do with morrissey,s lyrics ? my son flies the flag,he put it up when the football was on,liked it so left it up,my old friend also flies the flag,he is 64 years old and fought in aden and the jungles of malaya,hes very patriotic and a racist,with good cause as he puts it, i have one its in my car boot,flying the flag gives no insight into the mindset of the person flying it, only those who ask that it be taken down

I really feel that for someone to even come up with this thought, is a shame.

Why can't you just be proud to be English and not consider who you might offend.

Proud to be an ozzie, and no matter where I am in the world my flag stands proud in my window, as should the St George, Union Jack etc for you. I also don't need a world cup to find an excuse for flying it. Good on you to those who proudly fly the flag of England

I think Jon is simply inviting discussion about this topic, I don't think he's saying that flying the flag is racist or not. (Correct me if I'm wrong Jon!) This is a debate which is highly relevant to today's society (ridiculous as it may be to suggest that being proud of your country means you are racist) and clearly incites some strong and emotional responses. Unfortunately we live in a society where racism is a massive problem and causes an enormous amount of suffering, and this in turn produces over-sensitive reactions which simply add fuel to the fire. I agree in this case it is political correctness gone mad, but there's no harm in discussing the issue and trying to understand why it has come about in the first place.

i fly the cross of st george ,and people can think what they like.

Oh come now,everyone knows you must not fly anything which shows you to be a patriot.
Its just not PC.:loopy:

What a lot of nonsense, royjames; besides what would a BNP member know about patriotism? (Especially one who has been publicly linked to a person who idolises a well known Nazi) Frankly, you've got a nerve to talk about the flag - it was racists in the NF who brought shame on the flag in the 70's and gave rise to the myth that those who fly the flag are racist.

The problem with the st George flag is it is very identified with the racist BNP / and far right organisations. A good eg is the confederate flag in USA is really the flag of the South during the USA civil war but the racist South and the KKK, embraced that flag and used it as part of there symbol. To me that has more racist implications than the St George flag. As for the flag in Pitsmoor, i do not think this person is that stupid to be an active racist up there. The flag is cool, i might put my jamaica flag up in my house if we get Sven to be manager of the football team. Bloody need him.

all this about muslims and islam and flying the flag being a racial action is crap ...


we as a country need to be more patriotic...

can you imagine this same discussion taking place in Chicago, L.A, or New York because someone was flying the stars and stripes ???

if someone chooses to fly the st george in patriotic spirit of their country -be it just for the duration of a footy match or otherwise, then IMO this is a beautiful and patriotic thing to do...

we should see more of it....

if people of another race decide that this is an action designed to target them then they need to have a rethink on living in this country - where the flag is a symbol of pride and patriotism.

if muslims who live in this country take offence at our customs and heritage and anything that comes with it, why did they choose to live in this country...

and this is not a racial slur either b4 anyone starts....

the problem with the racial conotations of the flag is down to mindless idiots like the bnp,who only aid to make the situation worse...

Fly tha flag - show your pride !


the reason why some people will never feel patriotic about england is evident. even in todays society black people represent absolutely nothing except sport in the uk. Not one black high ranking police officer, which isnt surprising due to its existing institutional racism. Stephen Lawrence case.
Where is the black mp's (please do not say Paul Boateng, he is a joke)
You go to a football match and there is always one whats got to make a racial slur. (i witnessed this at utd vs lfc, to my disgust)
even in school we only learn only the negative aspect of black history (slavery), black people be it africa or the carribean / usa have a massive history just as equal to the english empire. contributing in many discoveries, inventions and empires.

on the asian front i can not really say due to the fact in todays current climate of islamophobia, asian men especially do not do themselves any favours due to honour killings and whole integration thing. for some reason old fashion values are prominent and there has been many cases involving domestic abuse. (women) i am a social worker in disguise.

i feel that most black people despite all the odds have intergrated well since the 50's. scientists have proven fact that by the year 3000 there may be very few white people left in UK due to the developing and increasing mixed race population.

I think everyone should fly St George's flag or the Union Jack, so that the racists need to go find something else to fly.

i understand you jim and i think in an ideal uk that should happen but the fact still remains, it is not the bnp that is the villain, it is your normal everyday man that still does not except certain people in society. these people will swear blind that they are not racist but will go to the football terraces on a saturday afternoon and hurl abuse. after all that, they will go and tell you that he/she has black friends. its a vicious ugly circle. even in sheffields club culture it is very segregated. the student scene is horrifically segregated. when a club is a 90% black crowd, "dont go there, you need a bullet proof vest". this is a comment from someone who regularly writes in the sheffield forum by the way. i wont expose him now but if he is reading this feel very ashamed as you have contributed to spreading racism.
I suppose Niche is a blessing in disguise because its full of black and white chavs coming together, i won't mention the incidents as this opens another can of worms.

Does PC stand for "press-created"? That's what most of these "political correctness gone mad" stories are.

*** Newsflash - tabloid newspapers tell lies ***heres an interesting one


http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1897205.html?menu=

but its not by the press, its by the people who are in government