Dear Hilary (at least thats what your 6? year old daughter told me your name was....

I hope you had a nice leisurely stroll around Tesco's (infirmary Rd 8.30pmish tonight)

Whilst you were shopping, your 2? year old son was howling and screaming in your unlocked car, I kept my eye on him for a few minutes before wandering over, as I don't like to pry (half a dozen other people just glanced and carried on ~ people don't like to get 'involved' apparently).

At first I thought there was an adult in the car with him, but as the screams for 'Mummy' continued, I figured no child sounds that distressed if he is with another adult he trusts...It was also starting to go dark....so I went over to your car.

I cannot begin to describe my utter shock at finding a little girl, can't have been any older than 6 yrs, sat in the back of the car looking distressed herself, whilst her 2yr old brother (I assume) was screaming & sobbing in the front .

By this point, your small infant boy had got out of his car seat, wound down his window and opened the car door, as I was asking the little girl where and who her mummy was, he was trying to walk past me into oncoming cars to find his 'Mummy'

I put your boy back into your car for you, and alerted security, I also went back to the supermarket half hour later to settle my own mind that they had been seen to, and indeed you had been called away from doing your shopping to attend to your children.

So, sorry if I caused you any delay or upset your shopping routine, but I thought your children should come first.

I suggest the next time you go shopping, have a little think before abandoning your children.

:rant:

Some people don't deserve children. What was this woman thinking? :rant:

it doesnt sound good but one moment of misjudgement doesnt deserve that sort of branding

Im sure every parent has made a bad decision at one point :S

A bad decision? Letting them stay up too late or having too many sweets until they're sick is a bad decision. What this woman (and possibly man also) did was put her children at risk, and I think that's a terrible thing to do. :|

letting your kids play around your house puts them at risk.
this was not a good thing for the woman to do but you cant judge someone and say something like "they dont deserve kids" from knowing such a small amount about them.

She / they were reckless with regards to their safety to the point that a stranger had to restrain them; a toddler could have been abducted or run over.

Based upon what we do know I stand by my original statement.

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
it doesnt sound good but one moment of misjudgement doesnt deserve that sort of branding

Im sure every parent has made a bad decision at one point :S

So at what point would you have intervened or judged?

As some stranger took the boy off for god-knows what treatment?

As the ambulance men were trying to gets pieces of him out of some drivers wheels?

As you sat reading about it in the paper over your coffee?

You don't always get second chances, so why take the risk? She only had to take 2 minutes putting him in a trolley.

I'd intervene certainly, but I wouldn't come online and bitch about bad parenting, because that brief feeling of superiority will only end up leaving you with a bitter taste in your mouth

now I'm sure the majority of people on here will disagree entirely and be happy to brand the woman as being "evil" or whatever, but I stand by my point.

Asking for trouble leaving kids in the car. Nope! Some folk should be disqualified from driving for that sort of thing. However - do you count popping out of the car to check something rattling in the wheel arch, for instance, as leaving the kids or are we talking about completely leaving them inside?

Why I was young my dad had a cortina and after a long journey I fell asleep and when we arrived home he left me for a while to sleep. I woke up, got out of the car and went into the house none the worse for wear. That was a long time ago and times change.

Seems there is a fine line between leaving kids in the car for a dangerously long period of time for no good reason, and popping into the newsagents for a bottle of pop - and I am not saying either of those is right.

How wrong is wrong though?

Dragon

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
now I'm sure the majority of people on here will disagree entirely and be happy to brand the woman as being "evil" or whatever, but I stand by my point.

Nobody suggested she was evil; I'd go with foolish, reckless and not deserving of children.

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
letting your kids play around your house puts them at risk.
this was not a good thing for the woman to do but you cant judge someone and say something like "they dont deserve kids" from knowing such a small amount about them.

AHHH,but you forget this is Sheffield Forum,the place where people can say what they like about who they like when they like.

If you ever want to be judged by people that know nothing about you,,then you havecometot he right place.

We all forget sometimes how perfect forum members are.

beansforyou,

You should have just called the police or social services. I’m sure they would there in a shot and would have given the mother a right good telling off. Did you take down the registration? If you reported this to the social services, they should be able to find where the car is registered and make a "house call" to make sure the parents are not neglecting their children at home too!

Without your intervention beansforyou these children could now be faces on the front page of the star! Give yourself a pat on the back!

Some people don’t deserve children!

Originally posted by tango2
AHHH,but you forget this is Sheffield Forum,the place where people can say what they like about who they like when they like.

If you ever want to be judged by people that know nothing about you,,then you havecometot he right place.

We all forget sometimes how perfect forum members are.

bravo

I don't feel superior to anyone, but if this thread makes one person think twice before leaving their kids in the car unattended, then I will feel it has served it's purpose.

Too many people let things go by, the whole attitude of ' don't get involved dear...' is what has made society the dangerous place it is nowadays.

As for Dragons point, personally as long as you can see your child and be at their side in a matter of seconds then that is ok, leaving them unattended in a car park at dusk is not.

i'm not perfect, and i'm hardly expecting the person involved to come forward, but a forum is there to express your opinions, is it not?

Originally posted by serapis
beansforyou,

You should have just called the police or social services. I’m sure they would there in a shot and would have given the mother a right good telling off. Did you take down the registration? If you reported this to the social services, they should be able to find where the car is registered and make a "house call" to make sure the parents are not neglecting their children at home too!

Without your intervention beansforyou these children could now be faces on the front page of the star! Give yourself a pat on the back!

Some people don’t deserve children!

Oh look,now we want to star a witch hunt,,why dont we just track her down and have her flogged in the peace gardens,,,,exactly how perfect are you all.

Yes it was a bad move on her part,,but why critisize about it when the person involved cant defend themselves,,,,hmmmm sheffield forum rules i guess,,,,do as i say not a i do.

Originally posted by beansforyou
i'm hardly expecting the person involved to come forward, but a forum is there to express your opinions, is it not?

Bravo. That's my understanding too! ;)

I know, lets notify the star, we could get it on the front page tomorrow, we'd all be heroes!

NARROWLY AVOIDED ABDUCTION IN SHADY SUBURBS!


Could I possibly point out that society isnt a prticularly "dangerous" place today, no more than it ever has been.

I'm on your side Beans.

I prefer being the intefering busy body who abducts lost dogs to take them to the police station, accosts small wandering children to assist in their search for parents, rats of teenagers dumping building rubble on school playing fields.

I am grateful to the young girl who found my puppy wandering outside when some prawn let him out as they delivered a yellow pages, and the kind woman who accosted my 2 year old brother walking in the gutter of the main road outside him having just mastered the lock on the gate.

The world needs more busybodies, and if they find it helps to let off steam here having spent anxious minutes/hours agonising over 'the right thing to do', then fine.

I'd rather not read something in the paper that I could have prevented :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
I know, lets notify the star, we could get it on the front page tomorrow, we'd all be heroes!

NARROWLY AVOIDED ABDUCTION IN SHADY SUBURBS!


Could I possibly point out that society isnt a prticularly "dangerous" place today, no more than it ever has been.
It was your child then? :suspect:

Shall we just e-mail social services to get their standpoint on this subject? :rolleyes:

i'm not saying dont get involved, there is some definate twisting of words going on here.

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
i'm not saying dont get involved, there is some definate twisting of words going on here.

Twisting of words,,,,yes indeed wont belong before it drifts off into a bus thread or price of bacon debate.

Busy boddies are all well and good until it borders on the poking into peoples business,and generaly find things that are not even there to found.

Originally posted by tango2
Oh look,now we want to star a witch hunt,,why dont we just track her down and have her flogged in the peace gardens,,,,exactly how perfect are you all.

Yes it was a bad move on her part,,but why critisize about it when the person involved cant defend themselves,,,,hmmmm sheffield forum rules i guess,,,,do as i say not a i do.

Its better to be safe than sorry, and this kind of neglect could be only the tip of the iceberg.

If social services paid them a visit and there was nothing untoward, then you would expect the parents not to make the same mistake. But if there was even more neglect at home and this kind of thing is common place, then there is a possibility reporting them could save these children’s lives!

Or is this 6 year old and 2 year old’s lives secondary to keeping your nose out of someone else’s business!

It's not supposed to be about 'sides' though Strix, its about people looking out for other people, even complete strangers (and..oh my god no...surely not other peoples children??!! :roll:

it's a shame Carl_malibu wasn't there, they could have stood aside making sacarstic comments.

I didn't post this as a witch hunt, a Hero's half-hour or even to be provoking (I didn't honestly think for a second that anyone would be objectionable against someone helping someone elses toddler)

As I said earlier, I've just got in and needed to vent my astonishment, if this somehow offends some forum users then im very sorry.

Funny. The only people who ever seem to complain about noses in their business is people who are up to something even they know to be 'wrong' :suspect:

Of course, you could say it was none of the kids' business what their mum was up to.....

Originally posted by beansforyou
It's not supposed to be about 'sides' though Strix, its
Sorry - poor choice of words.

I'd have done the same - and whilst there are people doing you down here, I support your actions.

Originally posted by Strix
Funny. The only people who ever seem to complain about noses in their business is people who are up to something even they know to be 'wrong' :suspect:

Of course, you could say it was none of the kids' business what their mum was up to.....

I object,,so you think im up to something?

Originally posted by tango2
I object,,so you think im up to something?

What was it was you were saying about twisting words? :roll:

Oh well must go and get up to no good,and hopefully I will evade detection.

Originally posted by Kristian
What was it was you were saying about twisting words? :roll:

Strix said the only people that object are the ones that are up to something

I object,therfore in the opinon of Strix,I am up to something,so how is that twisting words.

So what is it that you're not up to Tango? ;)

C'mon.... You can tell us :wink:

And what is it exactly that you object to?

right carl you are a kid yourself so you do not see things the way we do,,


i am a mother, i have left my baby in the car at the petrol station to go in and pay but i lock the doors, and its in and out ...
i would never leave her for longer and especially with the doors unlocked .. once she is older i will most probably take her in with me.

have you all forgotten the stories about the people that stole the car with the kids inside as the mother left it UNLOCKED..

do we not hear in the news all the time about kids being abducted..

this woman has made the worst mistake ever and she is very lucky she is not sat making a police appeal right now for the safe return of her children..

i not sure if i would go as far to say you she does not deserve kids , but i think she needs a lesson in what not to do!!!!!!

Im certainly not up to anything that would involve the intervention of the authorities.

Originally posted by Strix
Funny. The only people who ever seem to complain about noses in their business is people who are up to something even they know to be 'wrong' :suspect:

Of course, you could say it was none of the kids' business what their mum was up to.....

Originally posted by tango2
Strix said the only people that object are the ones that are up to something

I object,therfore in the opinon of Strix,I am up to something,so how is that twisting words.


I didn't see you complain that someone had their nose in your business? Strix made her point quite clearly I feel.

Originally posted by tango2
intervention of the authorities.

I had to read that (in my head) in the voice of Cartman :lol:

Originally posted by beansforyou
And what is it exactly that you object to?

I take it you dont read the posts in full?.

Pretty much with Sav on this one. I, personally, would never leave my kids unattended anywhere ever as they happen to be quite precious to me!

She did a ludicrous thing but hopefully she will learn not to do this again. She has been lucky that nothing sinister happened.

Originally posted by tango2
I take it you dont read the posts in full?.

Perhaps I could refer you to my post four above? :)

Originally posted by Kristian
Perhaps I could refer you to my post four above? :)

Yes I stated I OBJECT to busy bodies some posts back

Originally posted by tango2
Yes I stated I OBJECT to busy bodies some posts back

in the case of children ,, noone is a busy body!!!!

Originally posted by tango2
Yes I stated I OBJECT to busy bodies some posts back

So you consider my actions to be that of a busy body?

I wonder how much, say, Jamie bulgers parents would have given to have such a 'busy body' around?

I do read posts in full, I just wanted to clear up what exactly it was you found objectionable, thankyou :)

Originally posted by savbaby
in the case of children ,, noone is a busy body!!!!

But what about when people actively strive to to look for things that are not there.
This does happen,and happens quite frequently,yes some may say that they had peoples interests at heart.
This is no benefit to anyone when families are under investigation for things that have only happened in the imagination of others.

eg:local family reported to social services 6 times,claims that children where thrown down concrete stairs,children were drugged ect.

eg:same family reported to RSPCA 3 times,claims that family dog was beaten on a regular basis.

3 call alsomade to police claiming drug dealing and prostitution was taking place from the family home.

all cases were investigated causing distress to the family,
it would be an under statement to say this family was in bits.
I am also aware of a few other cases of the same nature.

you may say if they had nothing to hide,they had nothing to fear,but when these powers are used for malicious reasons it dents peoples faith in the systems currently in place to protect people.

Originally posted by beansforyou
I wonder how much, say, Jamie bulgers parents would have given to have such a 'busy body' around?
Shame of it is - Scousers are busy bodies, and those lads were stopped six times between Bootle Strand and that railway line.

nobody expected kids to be capable of such horrors

busybody
n : a person who meddles in the affairs of others.

So do you think that everyone should just turn a blind eye?

Originally posted by tango2
But what about when people actively strive to to look for things that are not there.
This does happen,and happens quite frequently,yes some may say that they had peoples interests at heart.
This is no benefit to anyone when families are under investigation for things that have only happened in the imagination of others.

eg:local family reported to social services 6 times,claims that children where thrown down concrete stairs,children were drugged ect.

eg:same family reported to RSPCA 3 times,claims that family dog was beaten on a regular basis.

3 call alsomade to police claiming drug dealing and prostitution was taking place from the family home.

all cases were investigated causing distress to the family,
it would be an under statement to say this family was in bits.
I am also aware of a few other cases of the same nature.

you may say if they had nothing to hide,they had nothing to fear,but when these powers are used for malicious reasons it dents peoples faith in the systems currently in place to protect people.

Clearly this wasn't the case with regards to tonights event. What is your point? :confused:

Originally posted by tango2
But what about when people actively strive to to look for things that are not there.
This does happen,and happens quite frequently,yes some may say that they had peoples interests at heart.
This is no benefit to anyone when families are under investigation for things that have only happened in the imagination of others.

eg:local family reported to social services 6 times,claims that children where thrown down concrete stairs,children were drugged ect.

eg:same family reported to RSPCA 3 times,claims that family dog was beaten on a regular basis.

3 call alsomade to police claiming drug dealing and prostitution was taking place from the family home.

all cases were investigated causing distress to the family,
it would be an under statement to say this family was in bits.
I am also aware of a few other cases of the same nature.

you may say if they had nothing to hide,they had nothing to fear,but when these powers are used for malicious reasons it dents peoples faith in the systems currently in place to protect people.


what is you point????

tonights events were clearly stated,, i praise beansforyou for their actions as these children could have been hurt...

yes there are some people who actively look for this stuff but they are not busy bodies they are just plain evil people...

and these people usually have it in for the family involved...

beansforyou has done a grand job tonight and putting someothing like this story on here may make people think twice about doing such a reckless thing.. as some people quite clearly think its ok to do

Originally posted by savbaby
putting someothing like this story on here may make people think twice about doing such a reckless thing.. as some people quite clearly think its ok to do

I think another fair point though is that people don't always Think, it isn't always a case of people being consciously negligent, it's just taking them extra few seconds to sit back and think about the consequences that could occur, esp. with young children.

Originally posted by beansforyou
Dear Hilary (at least thats what your 6? year old daughter told me your name was....

I hope you had a nice leisurely stroll around Tesco's (infirmary Rd 8.30pmish tonight)

Whilst you were shopping, your 2? year old son was howling and screaming in your unlocked car, I kept my eye on him for a few minutes before wandering over, as I don't like to pry (half a dozen other people just glanced and carried on ~ people don't like to get 'involved' apparently).

At first I thought there was an adult in the car with him, but as the screams for 'Mummy' continued, I figured no child sounds that distressed if he is with another adult he trusts...It was also starting to go dark....so I went over to your car.

I cannot begin to describe my utter shock at finding a little girl, can't have been any older than 6 yrs, sat in the back of the car looking distressed herself, whilst her 2yr old brother (I assume) was screaming & sobbing in the front .

By this point, your small infant boy had got out of his car seat, wound down his window and opened the car door, as I was asking the little girl where and who her mummy was, he was trying to walk past me into oncoming cars to find his 'Mummy'

I put your boy back into your car for you, and alerted security, I also went back to the supermarket half hour later to settle my own mind that they had been seen to, and indeed you had been called away from doing your shopping to attend to your children.

So, sorry if I caused you any delay or upset your shopping routine, but I thought your children should come first.

I suggest the next time you go shopping, have a little think before abandoning your children.

:rant:

Well done for you! And a bit pat on the back from me for helping the kiddies out :)

The woman in question sounds like a wonderful mother doesnt she.. it makes me sick to my stomach especially in this day and age what people do with their kids.. or lack of looking after their kids should I say.

People like that woman dont deserve to have kids when there are plenty of couples around that cant have children who would love and care for them a lot better.

Originally posted by tango2
Oh look,now we want to star a witch hunt,,why dont we just track her down and have her flogged in the peace gardens,,,,exactly how perfect are you all.

Yes it was a bad move on her part,,but why critisize about it when the person involved cant defend themselves,,,,hmmmm sheffield forum rules i guess,,,,do as i say not a i do.

I think we should start a witch hunt- bad parents, hooligans, and general nobheads should be branded the assholes they are and should be made to see what they are doing is wrong by the community as a whole.

I would love to hear her side of the story though, probably some crap about not having time to do this and that and she didnt think probably.

I do defend people on this forum from time to time because they are dead right and a lot of people on here, could learn from a bit more wisdom they gleam from on here also.

No, I'm not perfect also - but I'm not far off :)

Well done beansforyou - you did what any self respecting parent would do in the circumstances. I quite understand your need to come onto the Forum and vent your anger. There have been some very strange posts in response which you don't deserve. Your original post was very measured and very sensible - your actions are to be commended. In terms of the mother who left her children in such circumsatnces, she might be evil and not deserving of children, or she might just have suffered a very bad lapse of judgement - either way your actions might help to ensure that she doesn't do it again. Well done.

oh dear...

This has just become one twisted, angry thread.

I think that what you did was right beans, I commend you for your judgement on helping those chidren.
However, I do NOT commend you or anyone else on here for your judgement of: some people don't deserve kids

I'm not going to try and guess what her circumstances were, or what reasons she might give. They may be ridiculous but, you don't know. You haven't met her, none of us have and I can assure you there's always one thing, we haven't thought of.

It is too far to go to say she doesn't deserve kids and it is not for any of us to say or judge.
I am with Carl to a certain extent however, I do think that what you did was commendable, I personally think the way your starting post was addressed was unneccessary (sp?) and it could have been put in many better ways. You could have got the same message across simply by saying what you saw but addressing it to forummers, not to the mother.
Therefore, I don't agree with the way you posted and I think (I may be wrong) that this is what Carl initially objected to as well.

As for you, Angelus, oh dear.
You have such a high opinion of yourself! I don't think you or anyone else here (including myself) can say you're not far off perfect! For a start, you have judged this woman uncompassionately without thinking about what might be the circumstances behind it. That is not the actions of someone about to acheive perfection.
And also, just the statement I think we should start a witch hunt proves my point. Nobody close to perfection can condone anything like this. What is the definition of a nobhead? Doesn't it change in different people's opinions. I'm not stating my own beliefs, but if a witch hunt was started to search out nobheads, you could be top of some people's lists. In fact - I'm sure there'd be nobody left because I'm sure that there's at least one person out there who doesn't like each of us.
In my opinion - you are still far from it...

My point is: I'm not trying to say that what Beans did wasn't commendable - it was, those children could have been hurt, and you're right a lot of people don't want to get involved. And I'm not a mother so can only imagine a tiny amount of the worry a missing child could cause and that seems awful. But nobody has the right to say that she doesn't deserve children.
At the end of the day, she could have had anything on her mind and thought 'I won't be there long' then got caught up for whatever reason, she could have been worrying about her children but knowing she needed this stuff. Depending on what she had on her mind, she could have not realised she hadn't locked the car. Often, I lock my car and it doesn't lock first time, I have left it completely unlocked because I didn't realise it hadn't worked.

You just don't know.

Sorry if this was a bit of a ramble - I didn't plan my points in a good order!

Hopefully this mother will realise what a bad choice she made and I pray that she won't come across your thread at all. She probably cares a lot for her kids and was deeply, deeply upset and shocked by her own actions.

Lottie

Hi Lottie,

We're all allowed our own opinions, (even of people we know nothing about!) But I would like to point out that I never stated ' Some people don't deserve kids'.

Obviously I do believe that 'Some people don't deserve kids', but I personally wouldn't state it without knowing the full history of someone with children.

Just to add, as you didn't plan your points out in good order, I also started this thread with much disbelief & emotion at what I had just witnessed, as for starting it addressed to the woman at fault, I have no apology to make for that, and stand by doing so, if no one is going to start standing up and saying 'hey bob, your wrong to do that' then nothing is ever going to get done, and you might as well go and post on the 'Soup' thread.

Originally posted by tango2
But what about when people actively strive to look for things that are not there.
This does happen, and happens quite frequently, yes some may say that they had peoples interests at heart.
This is no benefit to anyone when families are under investigation for things that have only happened in the imagination of others.

eg: local family reported to social services 6 times, claims that children where thrown down concrete stairs, children were drugged etc. .

eg: same family reported to RSPCA 3 times, claims that family dog was beaten on a regular basis.

3 call also made to police claiming drug dealing and prostitution was taking place from the family home.

all cases were investigated causing distress to the family,
it would be an under statement to say this family was in bits.
I am also aware of a few other cases of the same nature.

you may say if they had nothing to hide, they had nothing to fear, but when these powers are used for malicious reasons it dents peoples faith in the systems currently in place to protect people.

This family were clearly being maliciously targeted.

As a former Social Services Manager, it has been by job to investigate such reports. Even one report, even if it is received anonymously, has to be investigated. I have many a time
visited and knocked on the door of different families, and informed them that a report has been received accusing them of neglect or abuse of their child(ren).

The shock experienced by parents of finding a social worker on their doorstep was usually palpable. I always allowed time for them to express their anger, before sitting down, and calmly explaining the need to investigate the report. Most times, such reports were without foundation (though, I would add, not always). But, it was also not unusual to receive further reports, always about a child crying unattended for long periods, or a child seen with facial bruising, or something similar. Again, such reports would usually have to be checked out. But there came a time when, in the absence of any concrete evidence that a child was being neglected or abused, you had to draw the line, and I would refuse to authorise a visit. I would though inform the parents of the latest accusations, and with their agreement, liase with the police in the hope that a criminal investigation might track down the malicious (or at the very least, ill-informed) caller.

Now, as for beansforyou being a nosey, interfering busy-body in the supermarket car-park, I really only have one word for you......congratulations!

A six year old child who was left caring for a two year old, in an unsupervised vehicle whilst their mother went off to do her shopping is stupidity beyond belief, and constitutes neglect. That the younger child became distressed, and actively sought to get out of the car, is testimony to what can so easily happen when young children are left unsupervised.

I would observe that the mother was not evil, just stupid. And the attention of the police in such circumstances would have been warranted. After all, who knows what her response was to being tannoyed with a message to go to Customer Services when she had vital shopping to complete? I can't imagine for a moment that she was spared any embarrassment. Possibly she was annoyed and fuming, and still couldn't see the foolishness of her actions? I'd have certainly arranged for someone (probably the police) to read the riot act to her, make no mistake. So, beansforyou, well done for being a busy-body. I really do wish more folk would take an active interest in the welfare of young children in such circumstances, and not, as beansforyou observed in this case, walk past pretending it wasn't their business.

Originally posted by Lotti
oh dear...

This has just become one twisted, angry thread.
...
It is too far to go to say she doesn't deserve kids and it is not for any of us to say or judge. ...I do think that what you did was commendable,
<snip>
As for you, Angelus, oh dear.
You have such a high opinion of yourself! I don't think you or anyone else here (including myself) can say you're not far off perfect!

Sorry if this was a bit of a ramble - I didn't plan my points in a good order!

Hopefully this mother will realise what a bad choice she made and I pray that she won't come across your thread at all. She probably cares a lot for her kids and was deeply, deeply upset and shocked by her own actions.

Lottie

Thanks for that Lotti. I read that over twice and, instead of posting what was boiling in my mind about the contributions so far, I only felt I needed to post this.

I think I would have liked to have done what the tread starter did - ie something, but cant help feeling that I would be accused of something if I went to the car.

In the same way Iwas waiting at the Hillsborough park, near the swings the other day for my sister and her 2 year old (my niece) and couldnt help feeling suspicious eyes boring into me.
I kept expecting a parent to approach and ask what I was doing there.

Maybe I am paranoid?
Maybe it is not just me that thinks like this and why so many people 'keep their noses out' of things?

(Incidently - any parents of small children out there that would have worried seeing a 27year old, 15st, 5'10" bloke waiting nr playground? thought so!)

Beansforyou, I would have probably acted in a similar way if I had been in your situation, both at the time, and then expressing my disbelief on here.

Though I think I may have taken things a few steps further. Firstly reporting the incident to the store security and then strongly suggesting that if the parent did not turn up in say 5 minutes that they call the police - given that the youngest child was obviously upset and had left his car seat and the car. No matter how careful other drivers are, a youngster emerging from the side of a parked car would more than likely not be seen and an accident could so easily have happened. Could anyone who thinks people like me are 'busy-boddies' tell me what they would have done in the same situation? I can't believe you would have such high regard for a parents right to bring up their children how they want and such low regard for the safety of said children?

The vast majority of people do, I think, look-out for the safety of young children and I guess that if you are stood near a local playground and you feel 'eyes' on you, then that is a good thing, it shows people are aware of potential 'strangers'.

I saw a woman driving the other day whilst her small child (looked about 5 years old) was jumping around on the back seat and then hanging his head out of the fully opened rear window. I am constantly angered and saddened by the lack of regard for the safety of young children :loopy:

beansforyou,

you did the right thing. When my husband and I first married, the people across the street from us had twin girls, aged about four, and a little boy, not quite two. I noticed that the children were frequently allowed to play unattended in the car, which was parked in the driveway.

I felt this was terribly unsafe, but being young (and not yet a parent myself) I didn't want to start trouble with my neighbors, so I said nothing. This went on for some time. Finally, I could stand it no longer and talked to the father. He was patronizing, and asked me if I had children. He then said there was no possible way any of the kids could start the car.

WHAT!? The possibility that the keys were in the car had never occured to me. He explained that they liked to listen to their sing along cassette tapes. Terrific.

Long story short. One Saturday morning, one of the kids started the car, and one of them knocked it into reverse. It went careening backwards down the driveway, crossed the street, clipped a tree, crossed our next door neighbor's lawn and slammed into their fence. The only thing that stopped it. Thank God none of the kids was injured, and I don't know who was more shook up, them, or their parents.

The police were called, and Child Protective Services launched an investigation. I never saw any of those kids playing alone in the car ever again.

I later felt guilty about my reluctance to speak up, and wondered what if I had been firmer with the father? If I had threatened to report him and his wife, could I have prevented the accident?

In any case, you did the right thing. If not for you, who knows what might have happened to those kids? I would have done the same thing.

:) Sierra

well done.
i never interfere with how other people behave but i do feel that this was the right course of action in this case.
i would always be tempted to advise security b4 taking any personal steps that way u can't be accused of anything !!

Well, I went out last night and I missed this thread... It's certainly caused some heated debate.. Personally I would never dream of leaving my little pickle in the car with his brother who is ten let alone a younger child.. Beansforyou's actions were most commendable, and It's a shame that most people are not like her these days. I think we would find the world a much nicer place if this were the case .
If she had not intervened in the way she did that little boy could have ended up in god knows what situation. I can speak from experience having a two year old myself that they have no sense of danger. What on earth was this woman thinking.. :rant:
I am suprised that the police were not informed as I am sure (although feel free to correct me) that it is an offence to leave a minor unattended...
I also feel that the sort of parent who would willingly leave two very young children alone in an unlocked car probably will feel no remorse..
Well done to beansforyou :clap:

IF
- the children had been left content (not crying etc.)
- the car had been locked (and the children could not get out)
- there was adequate ventilation and no risk of over-heating
- the parent was gone for only five minutes

.... would this have been wrong?

isn't it illegal to leave a dog unattended for beyond a certain length of time in a car? Surely young children deserve more protection than a dog?

I think I was left in the car for a few minutes when I was about 10, outside the news agents. Playing at driving, as you do when you're 10 I managed to take the handbrake off and take it out of gear.
Fortunately I could reach the brake pedal, so I sat with my foot on it until my mum came back. Which was only 2 minutes.

I don't think my mum had done anything wrong that time except think that i'd listen when she told me to sit still and not touch anything.

Anyway, I'm not sure I like the phrase "deserves children". It's more that some people aren't responible enough to care for them, deserving implies worth based on previous actions, which isn't how life works.

Best place for them, in a car. away from me.
________
HOT BOX VAPORIZERS (http://hotboxvaporizers.com)

Originally posted by dafoot
I think I would have liked to have done what the tread starter did - ie something, but cant help feeling that I would be accused of something if I went to the car.

In the same way Iwas waiting at the Hillsborough park, near the swings the other day for my sister and her 2 year old (my niece) and couldnt help feeling suspicious eyes boring into me.
I kept expecting a parent to approach and ask what I was doing there.

Maybe I am paranoid?
Maybe it is not just me that thinks like this and why so many people 'keep their noses out' of things?

(Incidently - any parents of small children out there that would have worried seeing a 27year old, 15st, 5'10" bloke waiting nr playground? thought so!)

Seeing as it was your sister and neice, it is a bit weird that you weren't in there giving your neice a push on the swings or just chatting to you sister. Why leave them to get on with it and lurk outside.

Thankfully it was only a shopping centre. In Australia it's a regular occurrence to hear about children (and babies) left alone in cars for hours on end while their parents visit the casinos.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Thankfully it was only a shopping centre.

It was only a shopping centre where James Bulger's mother lost track of him for a short length of time & he got abducted. She hadn't left him on his own.

Having read the thread on naming & shaming sex offenders/ paedophiles it makes me wonder just how many people who are so fearful on this count are less worried by this story.

Redrobbo's already pointed out that leaving these children unsupervised in a car constitutes neglect. As far as I'm aware the three strands of abuse constitute:

a) sexual abuse
b) physical abuse
c) neglect

I guess the woman concerned would have a shock to realise she falls into this catagory.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Seeing as it was your sister and neice, it is a bit weird that you weren't in there giving your neice a push on the swings or just chatting to you sister. Why leave them to get on with it and lurk outside.


I think he means he was waiting for them to arrive??

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Seeing as it was your sister and neice, it is a bit weird that you weren't in there giving your neice a push on the swings or just chatting to you sister. Why leave them to get on with it and lurk outside.
I did join in when they arrived - I meant I ended up waiting for 10mins before they got there (neice insisted on walking - which aint too quick at 20 months ;) )

Originally posted by Siân
It was only a shopping centre where James Bulger's mother lost track of him for a short length of time & he got abducted. She hadn't left him on his own.

Having read the thread on naming & shaming sex offenders/ paedophiles it makes me wonder just how many people who are so fearful on this count are less worried by this story.

Redrobbo's already pointed out that leaving these children unsupervised in a car constitutes neglect. As far as I'm aware the three strands of abuse constitute:

a) sexual abuse
b) physical abuse
c) neglect

I guess the woman concerned would have a shock to realise she falls into this catagory.

Quite so, but you must admit, while leaving your kids alone in a car for ANY reason is bad, leaving them to get food seems somehow less bad than leaving them to gamble your Giro away.

That was my point.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Quite so, but you must admit, while leaving your kids alone in a car for ANY reason is bad, leaving them to get food seems somehow less bad than leaving them to gamble your Giro away.

That was my point.

I don't think you make that distinction when you're the child in question.

all that I've been trying to say here was that you cannot brand someone for one moment of stupidity.

I am not calling anybody a busybody or such like, merely pointing out that you have no idea whats going on other than what you've seen.

If I had been there I'd have certainly helped the children out (although a young man opening a car door with two children inside would have probably got me arrested or beaten up) and I'd have waited for the mother to return and asked her whatever possessed her to do it.

but bringing it onto a public forum lets everyone throw in their own little problems, assume things that are, for all any of you know, nothing to do with the situation, and generally let all you tabloid reading emotive journalism lovers have your hour of glory and superiority.

Originally posted by dafoot
I did join in when they arrived - I meant I ended up waiting for 10mins before they got there (neice insisted on walking - which aint too quick at 20 months ;) )
Oh I see. yes of course.

I think it is probably how self conscious you feel and how uncomfortable you look to other people.

People who feel out of place, look out of place.

I'll usually smoke a cigarette or pull out something to read...

But I appreciate the sort of discomfort you felt, even when I am just stood by the fence inside the playground at Endcliffe park, and the boy has run off to the other end chasing monsters, I do get the occasional funny look.

Originally posted by dafoot

(Incidently - any parents of small children out there that would have worried seeing a 27year old, 15st, 5'10" bloke waiting nr playground? thought so!)

Reminds me of the time my husband was waiting in the car for me and our toddler to return from some outing. It was a stifling hot day and in the end he took off his T-shirt (kept shorts on!) to try & stop overheating.

Just as our littl'un and I arrived the police turned up too - following up reports of a scantily clad male parked outside a school. It was school holidays incidentally and there wasn't a child in sight, and fortunately everyone (police included) found it funny. And although it was somewhat embarrassing for poor hubby we had no problem with someone feeling they had to report it. Another time it might be our child some "busybody" is protecting!

Well done beansforyou!

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
but bringing it onto a public forum lets everyone throw in their own little problems, assume things that are, for all any of you know, nothing to do with the situation, and generally let all you tabloid reading emotive journalism lovers have your hour of glory and superiority.

It also brings this sort of neglect into the open & makes people think. Not a bad thing at all.

While I think beansforyou did the right thing, I can't help feeling that castigating the mother for it on an open forum is a little worrying when none of us know the full circumstances of the situation.

Suppose for example the mother had left the two little kids in the car with an elder brother or sister, and then when the boy became distressed the elder child went off into the shop to find the mother? The situation that was found would then be the direct result of the actions of the elder child rather than the mother - how irresponsible the mother had been would depend I suppose on how old the elder child was.

I guess what I am saying is that circumstances are not always what they seem, and though it appears from what we know to be reprehensibly poor parenting and so on, there may be things we are unaware of that make it more understandable. We do not know the mother's side of the story.

Originally posted by metalman
While I think beansforyou did the right thing, I can't help feeling that castigating the mother for it on an open forum is a little worrying when none of us know the full circumstances of the situation.



I wasn't going to post on here again, as for me personally this thread had served it's purpose, it had got it off my chest, and more importantly it might have made at least one person think twice before doing something as stupid themselves.

I do feel however that you must all realise that whilst your pointing fingers and voicing your opinions (all well and good) you are all doing only that, voicing your opinions on a topic which is to you at least Hyperthetical, as it is something you have read about, not witnessed first hand.

For all you know it may all just be made up to get you posting about something more interesting and heated than what to have for tea, but then again it may all be true, you have to bare this in mind when reading anything posted on a public forum.

Hopefully this will be my last post on the subject, although I am enjoying reading your varied responses, I am not taking anything personally as I have not given any opinion on the parents quality of child care (as I don't know them) only on what I knew to be fact for the amount of time I was involved.

It is very easy to skim through such a long thread as this, and then type like the devil incarnate to get your passionate opinions across, but I think it needs to be remembered that alot of things can be said in the heat of the moment, and extreme opinions can also be created just to stir things up.

But if they include being negative about another forum member, at least make sure your facts are correct, otherwise your views are irrelevent.

I'm rooting for BeansForYou on this one. If there were more busy bodies in this world it may well be a safer place. I really don't approve of people who just look the other way when a fellow human being is in distress.

And to all those who have complained that this could turn into a tread berating the unknown mother's parenting skills, if you read BeansForYou's first post, she doesn't make any particularly judgemental statements. She just gives an account of what happened and how she felt about it.

Hoepfully the parents of the chidlren in question are decent caring people, who will have been mortified when their bad judgement call was brought into question by the supermarket security staff.

Who knows what was going on in their heads that evening? Relationship troubles? Death in the family? We all make mistakes.

Maybe they'll have learned from their error, meanwhile the children were safe thnks to the kind intervention of BeansForYou.

There again, perhaps the parents did fall into the category of people who don't deserve kids? Maybe they neglect those children on a regular basis? We'll never know.

The only thing we can do, as a collection of people, is vow to be more proactive and keep our eyes open for situations like this where we can step in and help, instead of being so British about it and determined to mind our own business!

Well done BeansForYou :thumbsup:

I hope the comment about getting the facts right about other forum members wasn't aimed at me. You say that you didn't give any opinion on the parents' quality of childcare... sure about that?

Originally posted by beansforyou


I suggest the next time you go shopping, have a little think before abandoning your children.



But honestly I'm not getting at you, or pointing the finger or anything; I'm just saying that we may not know the full situation and that mother may have rushed out of the shop completely aghast when she realised her kids were alone in the unlocked car. As JBee says, we just don't know - you didn't see that bit. You did the right thing, and I'd have done the same (or at least got my wife to do it) so that should be the end of it. Hopefully it won't happen again.

Originally posted by metalman
While I think beansforyou did the right thing, I can't help feeling that castigating the mother for it on an open forum is a little worrying when none of us know the full circumstances of the situation.

Suppose for example the mother had left the two little kids in the car with an elder brother or sister, and then when the boy became distressed the elder child went off into the shop to find the mother? The situation that was found would then be the direct result of the actions of the elder child rather than the mother - how irresponsible the mother had been would depend I suppose on how old the elder child was.

I guess what I am saying is that circumstances are not always what they seem, and though it appears from what we know to be reprehensibly poor parenting and so on, there may be things we are unaware of that make it more understandable. We do not know the mother's side of the story.

Exactly what I was trying to say! Thankyou!

Who called who a busybody? I have read through the thread and didn't see it...

Beans, sorry - I have to apologise, I have obviously read it and thought I had read it on one of your posts!!
I would also like to point out that I don't think what you did was wrong - I just think that there are better ways to go about campaigning your point. I have posted things on open forums before that, in hindsight, I shouldn't have posted.

I appreciate that this is a big problem and people are often too afraid to help, especially men, because of what can be said.

I do think Metalman has hit the nail on the head with his last post! exactly what I meant with my poorly-written-in-the-early-hours-of-the-morning-post!

As far as kids left in the car, circumstances differ. My sister and I were left in the car as kids (not at 2 and 6 though!) probaby from when my sister was 8 and I was 10 - a bit before perhaps. But my mum used to leave us there as we hated shopping and we would sit there while she did the weekly shop. Not hours, but not 5 minutes either and we were always good.
Ok sometimes we fell out, but we used to just amuse ourselves. Playing ragdolls - we used to be normal until someone walked then we flopped back and pretended to be ragdolls - for those of you who ever saw Rosie and Jim - it was like that!!!!
But she knew we would behave and the engine was off, (sometimes the music was left on for us) the doors were all locked and windows up. It was one of those where you could open from the inside but not from the outside. That way, although if we wanted we could get out, we couldn't be got at! And it was a good thing, if there was a problem in the car and we had to get out we could.
I don't believe that she was negligent in any way - even though we weren't really old enough to be there alone (athough not as young as that!)

Lottie.

Originally posted by metalman
I hope the comment about getting the facts right about other forum members wasn't aimed at me. You say that you didn't give any opinion on the parents' quality of childcare... sure about that?



It wasn't aimed at anyone, and yes I am sure that I have not at any time said anything about this total stranger which I do not know for definate, as she DID abandon her children, to go shopping.

Anything different that anyone cares to make up in their own heads is purely hyperthetical debate, and needs to be treated as such.

As I also pointed out in my first post, I went back to Tesco's about half hour later to settle my own mind that everything was ok, and They had called her over the Tannoy and she had gone to her children.

IF...I was in her shoes, I would be grateful beyond compare that someone had taken the time to make sure my children were safe, and I certainly wouldn't mind being used as an example to others, IF...I had made such a bad judgment.

Originally posted by Siân
I don't think you make that distinction when you're the child in question.

No you don't, I agree, but if you were parked at a shopping centre there may well be mitigating circumstances that make the situation easier to understand (an urgent visit to the chemist, for example).

It would be a lot harder to find a plausible excuse if you were parked outside a casino.

The bottom line is, none of us know the whys & wherefores of this situation.

I would have done the same .. beansforyou well done..

Originally posted by Kristian
Clearly this wasn't the case with regards to tonights event. What is your point? :confused:

I do appologise as I did digress somewhat,maybe I should have worded the few posts better.
All I have to say in addition is,the thread creator is absoloutley correct in saying all comments made are hyperthetical due to the fact that none of us were there at the time,with the exception of the thread creator.

We can all sit here and say we would have done this and that but none of us really knows this until such a situation happens.
In the case of Beansforyou you,such a situation became reality.
Im sure the action taken was the correct one to take,but what I meant to say was maybe some people are reluctant to take action for fear of their actions being veiwed in a different light.

I will put my hands up to being guilty of maybe,overreacting to certain posts,and in the light of day feel that my words should have been more carefully thought out.

After all we are all entitled to our opinions and as pointed out by some members,thats all they are,,,opinions and should not be taken as fact.

Apollogy over.

I see no reason to apologise :)

Nothing makes a thread more interesting than 'spoken from the heart' opinions, ones that aren't thought out and written in triplicate and re-read just to make sure (thats for story books)

I think that is why I love to read forums like this one, I might not have posted that much myself, but me and my partner are on here every day/evening (get out more!!) and we are always enlightened/miffed/encouraged/you name it...by other peoples thoughts and values.

I personally see no reason to apologise, just coming back to the thread and posting that you feel your thoughts have changed a little means alot, as it shows that this has made people go away and ponder over things a little :)

Nothing finer than a good debate! :)

Well...there's chocolate...

beansforyou well done....
wow i am shocked to read what you witnessed.i too am a mother of 2 young children,no matter what you are doing there safety comes first,i wouldnt want to imagine what could have happened to those children,,,,
well done you,,

Well done beansforyou, for your actions and your posting.

IMO posting about 'people who don't think' or have done something a bit stupid, leads to other people thinking that little bit more about there own actions.

I don't have kids, but I do have a car, and I read a thread the other day (I think posted by mainframe, sorry if I'm wrong!) about cars parking up the curb and denying wheelchair access. I live on a street with no offroad parking and many people park up the curb. And because of that post I now take more care in my parking, I certainly never used to fully obstruct the curb, but I also never thought about overgrown hedges, wheely bins and lamposts which are already obstructions for a wheelchair/pushchair user on the pavement, without me adding to the trouble.

In summary, I think that sometimes it dosn't really matter if the person was right or wrong in their actions (which was also an issue in mainframe's post), but it creates awareness, eg. all those people who thought a 2-year old would never figure out how to open a car door will think twice.

So well done beans for you for making us think about this issue, and also from my personal viewpoint - well done for taking action.

Well done beansforyou, Anything could have happened to those children, or indedd, nothing, but who would risk it??

Not me thats for sure. I have a 2 yr old son, and its an absolute pain to keep getting him and out of the cars eat, especially if he's sleeping, but I would never leave him alone in the car.

This is not because I consider myself a 'perfect' parent but more to do with the fact that he's MY responsibility. Also there have been any number of reports (and TV shows) of car thefts, with small children unnoticed in car seats.

I hope the women in question now thinks twice before doing this again, even if it is more because she's embarassed/aware than because she's thinking of the safety of her kids.

Again WELL DONE!!!!

Well done beansforyou. :thumbsup:

It is quite possible that you saved a kiddy's life there.

Now if I had been in your shoes, and being a middle-aged bloke, I would have hesitated to approach the car for fear of being accused of being a 'deviant'. In short, I would have been of no use to the situation at all (other than to observe from afar).

What a weird world we live in, eh!:(

My dad used to leave us in the car all the time, until the day when we took the hand brake off and the car rolled into a wall.

Originally posted by nick2
My dad used to leave us in the car all the time, until the day when we took the hand brake off and the car rolled into a wall.

But wasn't it fun at the time, eh!!:hihi: :P

:o Thats discusting, in my eyes, children are some if not the most precious creatures on this earth in general and to parents. How anyone could leave children of that age like that in an unlocked car and wonder off for an hour or two to do their shopping is beyond me.

Sorry I've just found this thread and it seems ridiculous to me. My mum used to leave me and my sister in the car whilst she popped into the shops and if it means not having to drag them around shops and they are safely in your car what's the problem? People are saying that this woman doesn't deserve children but far worse things happen. Like for instance children being sexually abused by their parents or beaten up by their parents. We know nothing about these people and I think its wrong to brand someone a bad parent without knowing them and how they care for their children.

Before people jump down my throat to disagree just think about it.

i agree with you,bit of a difference though than popping into a shop and going into a supermarket,2 mins in a shop a lot longer in a supermarket,:)

Originally posted by julie23
i agree with you,bit of a difference though than popping into a shop and going into a supermarket,2 mins in a shop a lot longer in a supermarket,:)

it was a supermarket we were left in the car outside. I think I'd have been majorly miffed if someone called social services, especially if id have been taken into care or whatever my mom is a great mum and she does her best for us.

Agreed, sometimes its earier to leave children in the car and it isn't always a bad idea, however if it was my children (not got any yet) I think I'd make sure they knew not to get out of the car under any circumstances. Of course you could argue that someone of that age wouldnt know better, but if thats the case, would it not be safer to take them in with you.

Even if you tell a kid not to get out of the car. They probably will. At the end of the day no harm came to the kids so whats the problem? Far worse happens that we don't even hear about!

Originally posted by FilthFan
Even if you tell a kid not to get out of the car. They probably will. At the end of the day no harm came to the kids so whats the problem? Far worse happens that we don't even hear about!

True. This is a big thread for a small incident :suspect:

needn't be brought up AGAIN


mods, fancy closing this thread? its well past it now

Just thought I'd add a little something extra to stir the topic back up again.

For me again- if you leave your kids in the car even for 2 mins- that makes you a bad parent in my eyes.

I have a daughter, I wouldnt dream of letting her stay alone in a car with me 'popping out' to get something from a shop.
Not a chance- not with all the weirdos out there at the moment.

And for people who are going to disagree with this- just remember it only takes a small amount of time for a child to be lured out of a car and away by a stranger enticing them with sweets or something along those lines (not that I have any experience of this mind!)

If you have kids- you should have the sense in your head to protect them at ALL times.

Part of original post by ANGELUS
-If you have kids- you should have the sense in your head to protect them at ALL times.
Absolutely! Accidents are just waiting to happen to small children if unsupervised and the weirdos are out there, it isn't paranoia, it's a fact!

Leaving them unattended, in this instance in a car, is putting them at risk and constitutes neglect. The OP is to be praised for what they did, not criticised for interfering or for condemning the action of those who were careless with the safety of these children.

The attitude of some who I'm guessing, have no children of their own, is alarming. I suspect that their views may change however, when they take on the responsibility that having a family entails, I certainly hope so!

So even though most of us around here have probably been left in the car alone at some point and have turned out to be just fine all our parents are terrible parents?

Yeah Right! I'm sorry but I can't believe people can just say "oh its a bad parent" I didn't get abducted out of my car. I am also ok, I didn't get brought up wrong by being left in a car or anything.

There are children who are abused for years by their parents, some of these children go on to commit suicide when they are old enough to understand what that is and get pushed over the edge. Some of these children grow up to do the same to their children because its the only role model they were given. Some turn out to be mentally ill because of it plaguing their memories and others turn out to be ok.

There's some pretty horrific things going on that we don't even hear about. Just because you don't hear about it it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I just can't believe that people are being called bad parents for something as tiny as this.

This was hardly 'tiny' - the little one had managed to get the door open and escape, if I read it correctly. They were lucky Beans was there, or like someone else pointed out, that small child (approximately 2?) may well have had to have been peeled out of some car's tyres.
I have a baby, I've done the odd stupid thing that made me think afterwards what a stupid, scramble-brained idiot I am, but leaving him in the car, with it unlocked, being watched by another small child? That's into the realms of negligence, in my opinion.
As for bringing it on the Forum? When something really gets my goat/surprises me/amazes me, I often go home or into my office or the pub and recount it to my friends - where's the difference? That's what the Forum is about.

For all we know for definate, there could have been an older child left with the other two with the doors locked but also with the keys in case of emergency, the older child could have got out of the car to find mother and left it unlocked. We don't know anything about this family.

Plus

In my eyes this is tiny because far worse happens as I have said in previous posts.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!! i am actually crying my eyes out after readin this im havin trouble seeing the keyboard to type through my tears :(

i am a mother myself and yes ive made a few mistakes as we all do but never ever have i left my child with anyone i dont trust and definately never completely alone for any amount of time!!


you should have taken her licence plate number and reported her to the police who would have alerted social services cos thats not a mistake that is blatent neglect on the mothers part!!!!!!!!!!


and well done to you for alertin some one you may have saved her childrens lives for all we know one of them could have been taken or run over or anything


honestly some people make me sick i have heard endless stories of parents who neglect their children in this manner and its dam right uncalled for!!!:rant:


i was adopted as a newborn so my mother didnt neglect me in this manner if they cant llok after kids they shouldnt have kids is what i think yeah its hard to go shoppin with kids and its ahrd to do many things when you have children but myb they

should think about these things the next time they walk straight passed the condom aisle in the bloody supermarket or they think its ok ill get the 72 hour pill later or when they sit there lookin at the blue line appear on the test and thinkin to them selves its ok ill stil be able to do everything i do now even if i have got kids:mad:

FACT .......... kids change your life yeah things take a little longer to get done yes things are harder to arrange i.e nights out ect ect
finances get streched as kids cost money!!!!!!!!!
yes i myserlf hate shoppin with my 6 years old but i leave him with my mother not in a unlocked infact locked or not it doesnt matter its wrong either way ffs!!!!! i choose to have my son and there fore i must do everything in my power to protect him until the day i die......

omg i am so bloody angry now i hate people who behave like this i bet you them kids are in therapy in 15 years sayin my mum dint care and theyl b tellin em all about a lady who looked after them once when there mummy was shoppin and they were frightened they probs wont realize it till thier older but they will


WELL DONE TO YOU FOR SHOWIN SOME HUMANITY AND LOOKIN OUT FOR THOSE CHILDREN YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON :thumbsup:

OMG IM STILL CRYIN

Originally posted by FilthFan
So even though most of us around here have probably been left in the car alone at some point and have turned out to be just fine all our parents are terrible parents?

Yeah Right! I'm sorry but I can't believe people can just say "oh its a bad parent" I didn't get abducted out of my car. I am also ok, I didn't get brought up wrong by being left in a car or anything.

There are children who are abused for years by their parents, some of these children go on to commit suicide when they are old enough to understand what that is and get pushed over the edge. Some of these children grow up to do the same to their children because its the only role model they were given. Some turn out to be mentally ill because of it plaguing their memories and others turn out to be ok.

There's some pretty horrific things going on that we don't even hear about. Just because you don't hear about it it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I just can't believe that people are being called bad parents for something as tiny as this.

im sorry to say this filth as me and you get on ok but you have got to be bloody jokkin this was not a tiny thing this is major how would you feel tommorow if you heard on the news that a small child had been hit by a car outside a supermarket while his/her mother shopped inside youd feel like s**t for sayin its a tiny thing!!!! ffs people who neglect children only do so cause no one can be bothered to get involved the more people that get involved the less chance there is that the neglect will go on!! ok filth myb u was left in the car alone hun but you was lucky hun u never know whos out there or what other people are capable of!! yeah ok maybe these kids would have been ok but maybe not we may never know tbh but i for one am glad not everyone thinks like you!! if i suspect a child any child is bein neglected in any way be it mentally or physically then im gettin involved!!! i just hope your opinion changes when u have children of your own hun!

p.s im sorry to be so harsh filth but its made me so upset this thread:(

your crying.

A little bit of empathy is good, but get over it, it's ancient history and it's a thread on the forum.

Originally posted by Cyclone
your crying.

A little bit of empathy is good, but get over it, it's ancient history and it's a thread on the forum.


i was gonna say something but it aint worth it!!!!

Originally posted by katy1981
i was gonna say something but it aint worth it!!!!

No he isn't :)

Originally posted by D2J
No he isn't :)

thank you d2j:clap:

Oh no, i'm in tears now, my laptop is starting to short out. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Cyclone
Oh no, i'm in tears now, my laptop is starting to short out. :thumbsup:

i didnt think robots cried real tears i thought it was engine oil!!!! or had a sense of humour for that matter :thumbsup:

It's a question of what was the situation. What this particular mother did was wrong. But without knowing the whys and wherefores you can't call her 'evil'. A few people have said that there may have been an older child who left the little ones alone, or she could have been gone 5 minutes. I think the crucial risk factor is that a 2 year old is too young to be left in the care of a 6 year old, and she ought to have locked the doors.

As for leaving kids in cars in general, They are at no more risk from any weirdos sitting in a car than they would be walking to school or playing in the garden, as long as they are locked in. The real risk was in them getting out and getting run over, as demonstrated in what happened.

Older kids left alone in a car is still risky, but plenty of kids are OK to be left like that - I was OK to be left alone for around an hour when I got to 9 or 10. But another kid may not have had the sense to behave. But I have to add, I was not allowed to sit in the car on my own if it was dark.

In any case, beansforyou did the only thing that was right, and had the shop alert the mother.

i think this is totally disguisting! i myself have a small boy and wouldnt dream of leaving him alone in a car or anywhere else for that matter!

i adore my son and cannot understand why people behave in this manner.

:confused:

In the last two years I have had first hand dealings with two similar incidents.
The First was at Meadowhall retail park, we had parked our car and were wondering over to Toys R Us when there was a toddler ( just Walking) wondering Dangerously close to the cars driving by on the car park, we walked behind him for a few moments and then had to sprint to stop him wandering in to the path of a car, I took his hand ( didn't want to pick him up for obvious reasons) and lead him into Toys are us, the information desk put a call out and 10 minutes later still no one came, My husband went to check in Pc world, his Mother was buying a Pc and was just staring to raise the alarm that he was missing. best bit was she never even Thanked us!!!

The second one was on a really hot summers day Out side B & Q (Queens rd) when there was a really distraught 18 month old locked in a car with no windows opened, The little girl was really really upset. I went to customer service and asked them to put an announcement out, which they immediately did. I then left the staff at B & Q to deal with the situation, carried on with my shopping was in there a good 15 minutes and when I walked out the MUM AND DAD were just approaching their car!!!

There is absolutely no excuse for either of these cases or the one mentioned in this thread, This is just pure and simple neglect!!

I have a two year old and an eight year old and I wouldn't dream of leaving either of them in the car, I know that some times it would just take two minutes to nip into a shop and by the time you'd unloaded and loaded the kids back into the car your looking at 20 minutes if your lucky, but hey, that's your job as a parent and you accepted that responsibility when you decided to have kids!!!

Originally posted by katy1981
i was gonna say something but it aint worth it!!!!

Then why did you? I'm sorry to be harsh but it does make you look pretty sad when you have to make a comment like that in order to ignore something!

Originally posted by FilthFan
Then why did you? I'm sorry to be harsh but it does make you look pretty sad when you have to make a comment like that in order to ignore something!


hmm well i guess im just dam right stupid then:loopy:

but your comment is duelly noted filth and i will try not to comment uless i actually want to filth!!

Filthfan, IMO you ought to take note of what the people who are parents are saying. When I was a child, my sisters and I were quite often left in the car and no harm came to us, but that doesn't mean that harm couldn't have come to us. In the same way, even though you were left in the car alone when you were younger and no harm came to you, doesn't mean that couldn't have!

The only reason that the youngster in the OP did not get hurt in some way was because beansforyou came to the rescue and stopped the child wandering into the path of traffic.

The fact that the parent(s) of these children left them in an unlocked car alone does not make him/her/them evil ~ they made an error, which hopefully, provided the fact that it had been reported in the shop actually got back to him/her/them, they will not make again.

Don't think I'm having a go at you Filthfan....you are entitled to your opinion....but it is usually a good thing to listen to people who have more experience.:)

I do listen to other people's opinion. Doesn't mean I agree with them.

I'm afraid I may have been a little harsh to some people today but today has been a really bad day so sorry if thats the case.

im not saying no harm could have come to them I just stick with my original feeling that a child being abused - sexually or any other way or killed or worse by their parents is worse than being left in a car, sorry if that makes me out to be a bad person or going to be a bad parent.

Originally posted by FilthFan
im not saying no harm could have come to them I just stick with my original feeling that a child being abused - sexually or any other way or killed or worse by their parents is worse than being left in a car, sorry if that makes me out to be a bad person or going to be a bad parent. I understand what you're trying to get at, but children being left in a car, which could lead to them being in danger from whatever cause, is not the same as parents abusing their children ~ they are two totally separate issues.

Nobody is saying that what happened to these children was abuse, but it could be classed as neglect.

Yes, physical and sexual abuse of children is much worse, but that doesn't make neglect, at any scale, something to be ignored.

Nobody says that you will be a bad parent (I don't think that anyway), but you will find that, when you are a parent, your current views will probably change. :)

Originally posted by Ann_x
[COLOR=purple]I understand what you're trying to get at, but children being left in a car, which could lead to them being in danger from whatever cause, is not the same as parents abusing their children ~ they are two totally separate issues.

Nobody is saying that what happened to these children was abuse, but it could be classed as neglect.

Yes, physical and sexual abuse of children is much worse, but that doesn't make neglect, at any scale, something to be ignored.

all im saying is that people are saying these people do not deserve children or that they are evil or are bad parents. I was getting at the fact that worse happens that we don't even hear about. The amount of infant mortality is huge and its quite often down to the parents...

Originally posted by FilthFan
The amount of infant mortality is huge and its quite often down to the parents... Whoa....I know from personal experience that it's not OFTEN down to the parents. Unless you can substantiate a statement like that, you shouldn't make it. People who make that sort of statement without anything to back it up just show how really uninformed they are.

I don't feel I can contribute to this thread further, as comments like that really make me angry!

:rant:

Originally posted by FilthFan
The amount of infant mortality is huge and its quite often down to the parents...

Yes, there might have been another mortality to add to the list if Beansforyou hadn't prevented that toddler from wandering into traffic. How many times does that have to be explained?

Honestly FF, even at your advanced age of fifteen I'm not sure I'd leave you unsupervised in a car.....have you really read this thread through? If the child had been injured the mother would have been charged with neglect. Just because someone prevented a possible tragedy doesn't mean there was no neglect there

Ok then fine you are all right about this and there is no chance anything ever happens that is any worse you win.

Bad stuff happens all the time

So much of it is easily preventable with a little care and thought, which is what this post was about.

The worst case scenario is the death of a child....how many parents bitterly regret their actions? Beansforyou probably saved that woman from years of heartache and the eternal mantra of 'if only'

She may be a good parent most of the time but on that occasion no

Originally posted by Splodge_CRB
Bad stuff happens all the time
...
Beansforyou probably saved that woman from years of heartache and the eternal mantra of 'if only'

I wouldn't go so far as 'probably' save woman from torment, 'might have' or 'possibly' be more appropriate?
Despite the headline grabbings stories I don't think you need to assume that stuff WILL happen. But yes better to be safe, just think perhaps you worry too much when you say 'probably' as if leaving the child was 80% likely to cause loss of child.

Not dissagreeing that perhaps woman shouldn't have left child just that people stress too much about the idea bad stuff *WILL* happen.

That make sense? probably not ;)

I once saved a toddler from the jaws of death (wandering too close to the edge of the train platform). His (drunken) father ran over and yelled "GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY BOY" at me. Whereupon another man ran over and started defending me, so they started fighting...

Poor, poor little boy :|

Originally posted by kathythebean
His (drunken) father ran over and yelled "GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY BOY" at me.
What a muppet!

I know! Admittedly I did pick the child up, but he was going to fall on the tracks! I know you shouldn't pick up kids you dont know but I'm pretty sure no reasonable parent would've minded, I put him straight back down again; poor thing looked in need of a good cuddle anyway!

Originally posted by dafoot
I wouldn't go so far as 'probably' save woman from torment, 'might have' or 'possibly' be more appropriate?
Despite the headline grabbings stories I don't think you need to assume that stuff WILL happen. But yes better to be safe, just think perhaps you worry too much when you say 'probably' as if leaving the child was 80% likely to cause loss of child.

Not dissagreeing that perhaps woman shouldn't have left child just that people stress too much about the idea bad stuff *WILL* happen.

That make sense? probably not ;)


How casual some of you are regarding two very small children left unattended in an unlocked car in a busy carpark :mad: The smallest of which got out of the car and headed into the path of traffic until restrained.....

Promise me none of you major ****wits will ever breed!

It would have been the work of seconds to pop a two yr old in a trolley seat and ask the older child to help steer, it would have kept them out of any might have/possibly/maybe trouble and kept them from being so distressed......or perhaps you think it's ok to subject small children to that kind of stress?

Originally posted by Splodge_CRB
Promise me none of you major ****wits will ever breed!


I don't think that's reasonable! As I said before I was left in a car as a child! I'm rather glad that my parents did breed tbh.

Originally posted by Splodge_CRB
How casual some of you are regarding two very small children left unattended in an unlocked car in a busy carpark :mad: The smallest of which got out of the car and headed into the path of traffic until restrained.....

Promise me none of you major ****wits will ever breed!

It would have been the work of seconds to pop a two yr old in a trolley seat and ask the older child to help steer, it would have kept them out of any might have/possibly/maybe trouble and kept them from being so distressed......or perhaps you think it's ok to subject small children to that kind of stress?

did you misread the OP, the smallest was a baby, I doubt it was going anywhere unless it had recently mastered walking and car doors...

I'm not going to comment further on the original post, as I've said my bit, but I will just correct the above, the child was about two year old, who could walk (just) who was toddling into the path of the cars in front of Tesco in the dark & drizzle.

This has turned into a very interesting thread, and I hope the Mods leave it open, as it makes a change to read something people are actually passionate about, rather than what they want to have on their toast...

Reading other peoples accounts of similiar situations reminds me, when I was younger, probably about 14, my sister was 7..we we're in the younger childrens part of Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

They had a Merry-Go Round, which was two layers of cars, one being on longer 'arms' from the centre to the other, if you can picture it....

Anyhow, just as the ride started turning slowly, our dad noticed a little boy stodd between these arms, his own father was stood next to us, but what would happen next had obviously not sank into his head.

My dad managed to lean over and grab the child before the arm swung into him from behind, and popped him on the floor next to his dad....who in turn walked off, not a word of thanks, or even a moment to ask the child if he was ok.

It is strange how people behave....