I will be the first to admit that I was part of a right wing party that had some policies that appealed to me but over all....Some of their policies and actions disgusted me and I left due to some of these opinions/policies.

In the Forum I have seem different opinions and I do respect all opinions on merit but have found that we have elements in the forum that tend to live on causing mayhem where opinions of others are not theirs.

I do not like to mention names but certain members such as Disco Cat...Left wing....Has had threads closed due to altercations, name calling etc with other members like Royjames and Craig Mason of the BNP.
In Fact, I have seen some very good threads closed due to personal insults and a total disregard or others opinions.

Some of the Mods have also taken sides in a lot of these debates and have used their positions to ban people that do not agree with their own opinions.

By the way! this is not a dig at anyone and is just an observation of incidents etc that have happened over the past 2 years where comments have been noted.

As such, Since this forum is run by people of different backgrounds and opinions, Should the policies or opinions of both left and right wing organisations be allowed to peddle their filth within this forum?

My point of view is that none of them are worthy of belonging to any forum as their hate for each other has been evident over the past few years in posts and threads that have since been deleted.

Where does this forum draw the line? is it on a personal level with which mod is checking on posts or, is it on a more professional platform where someone as mod or admin deems that such threads are detrimental to their own opinions or to the general publics opinions?

It's not just politics. All our moderators have different styles.

As they are all volunteers, and as SheffieldForum is Geoff's own project, and as many forumers (and possibly mods) appear here after the pub ;) this forum has it's own quirks, but overall, it works

Chill out, sit back, and enjoy :)

Originally posted by Strix
It's not just politics. All our moderators have different styles.

As they are all volunteers, and as SheffieldForum is Geoff's own project, and as many forumers (and possibly mods) appear here after the pub ;) this forum has it's own quirks, but overall, it works

Chill out, sit back, and enjoy :)
Hey Strix!<<< I'm chilled out.....Just a few answers would be nice as I am fed up with just getting into a debate..( with the BNP that is hard enough!) then the thread gets pulled!

Bottom line is that we will allow the posting of views of any political persuasions provided that :

Forum rules are not broken.
Personal abuse or threats are not engaged in.
The Civil or Criminal Law of the land is not broken.
There is no incitement to break the Civil or Criminal Law of the land.

Also, in some cases, we will pull postings that seem to be designed to be abusive to groups of people or just troublesome or in very poor taste.

And that's it.

The people that were named above have a right to state their views, providing that they stay within the guidelines given above. And if they don't we'll act.

The rules also apply to people who wish to try and use the forum to push ANY agenda or viewpoint - left, right, centre, radical, religious, conspiratorial, whatever.

Joe

This is someones website, not a democracy... They can choose what they want to have on their site, just as you can choose who and what you want in your house.

My personal opinion is that the site has changed, and the moderating has become more about what people find personally acceptable, rather than just running the site.

I would much rather see peoples opinions of hot topics, as long as they aren't too insulting, than read the bland goings on that seem to make up 90% of the threads now.

I would rather see the mods looking after things like pointless postings and stupid replies, which used to be done, but no longer is.

Just seems that the site has become a much less interesting version of its former self (although still a great site). This is just my opinion though, and I don't have anything against the mods, they mostly do a good job of things, and as I've said before, I think it takes a special kind of person.

I'd like to see a return to subjects like the BNP though, but that would obviously require work from the mods.

Hey, I have my own gripes with moderation on occasions, and have wound up caught up in moderators moderating moderators, but they are people themselves ;)

Threads often get pulled if the emotions start running too high and things get nasty, or if there is so much 'interest' in a thread that it is impossible for the mods to keep up with it. In those cases they often reappear in a pruned version.

Ultimately they manage to maintain a mood on here which works. High emotions don't stay contained in one thread - they leak out all over the other boards

Originally posted by JoeP
Bottom line is that we will allow the posting of views of any political persuasions provided that :

Forum rules are not broken.
Personal abuse or threats are not engaged in.
The Civil or Criminal Law of the land is not broken.
There is no incitement to break the Civil or Criminal Law of the land.

Also, in some cases, we will pull postings that seem to be designed to be abusive to groups of people or just troublesome or in very poor taste.

And that's it.

The people that were named above have a right to state their views, providing that they stay within the guidelines given above. And if they don't we'll act.

The rules also apply to people who wish to try and use the forum to push ANY agenda or viewpoint - left, right, centre, radical, religious, conspiratorial, whatever.

Joe
Joe, I know you to be a decent, fair kind of bloke that looks at all angles before comment.
I do think however that you know where I am coming from and appreciate your reply.

I have though, noted that some other mods do take a stance with their own opinions being put forward and in some cases over the top.

Again, you on the other hand, look into the whole story and act on that information before making a decision.
I have found you to be very fair in your comments and actions there after.

I think that what I am trying to ask is, When these threads appear and it is evident that these particular threads are going to cause mayhem, why are they not stopped before the mud slinging happens and you have personally seen these types of threads with the same people involved all the time.

However JoeP - some threads are pulled that break none of those rules you list. I refer to the two threads concerning Fathers rights. They were not insulting, overheated, lackin in interest, or any of the other things you list. They were still pulled. That is the choice of the moderators and we live by it.

Agree that the forum generally works well on a whole.

Having said that - you would think that if you are going to have rules then all should stick to those rules, including the moderators. Seems this is not the case.

Like someone said already - this is not an open forum - a democracy.

Dragon

Hi,

Yes, situations do occur which get nasty and I've been known to ban half a dozen people in one sitting, prune the threads and get them back up and running. As have other Mods.

If we catch these situations early enough, then we can step in and calm things down. If we don't, then by the time we get asked to deal with it the only way TO deal with it is to pull posts or sometimes even threads. We will sometimes try and return the threads, but other times we will just consider it not worth the trouble. Sorry, but there you go.

So, what can YOU do to help?

1. If you see something you feel needs to be drawn to our attention, report it.
2. If you feel a Mod is out of order, tell us.

We have our own views and lives, and sometimes Mods will deliberately choose NOT to deal with a thread if they have :

Posted on the thread.
Have strong views about the subject.

Also, we're volunteers and our time on here is curtailed by earning a living, etc. So, if you see something that you don't like the look of, rather than waiting until after the event, report it!

Thanks,

Joe

I know the threads on Fathers rights being removed were brought to the attention of several mods buy people involved in the discussion and those not involved. The only explanation was that someone had complained the threads were too personal, and that was that.

The people involved in the topics were taking great care not to name people, nor to make such statements where those talked about would be recognised. The debate was lengthy, running to several pages, and had many people offering suggestions and advice.

Point is that sometimes these things happen. Problem sorted.

Whatever - the moderation on this site is not that bad ;)

Dragon

if you;d ever been to speakers corner hyde park on a sunday you;d realise what freedom of speech is,its not filth as you call it .its a" playing field of the mind" thought provoking.....your allowed to say anything you want.the result is you get some beautiful new ideas when people are allowed some kind of mental anarchy. ive been banned from the forum for quoteing to a muslim, extreme passages from the koran which i think incite violence .these things should be addressed....what did the mod do ? ban me for religeous incitement..what ever that means...

Originally posted by Dragon
However JoeP - some threads are pulled that break none of those rules you list. I refer to the two threads concerning Fathers rights. They were not insulting, overheated, lackin in interest, or any of the other things you list. They were still pulled. That is the choice of the moderators and we live by it.

Agree that the forum generally works well on a whole.

Having said that - you would think that if you are going to have rules then all should stick to those rules, including the moderators. Seems this is not the case.

Like someone said already - this is not an open forum - a democracy.

Dragon

Actually, it isn't and never has been an open, democratic forum. It's owned by an individual and that individual puts rules in place which the Moderators enforce. If you want to have an open forum, start your own.

If you see a Moderator posting that is out of order, tell us. If we don't see it, we can't act. I have had several of my postings pulled or edited by Mods whilst I've been a Mod because I've overstepped the line.

As for the 'Fathers for Justice' threads then :

1. I don't care if they're interesting or not - that never gets in the way of a posting being left up or removed.
2. Without going to the deleted thread pile and digging them out, I can't tell you why those threads were removed. However, another issue we HAVE pulled threads for is if anything is sub-judice.
3. And what constitutes insulting ehaviour and personal abuse is a subjective approach - it may be that what someone thinks is 'fair game' is actually quite insulting to someone else.

One thing I will say - take some responsibility! Quite a few users keep us informed of issues. This is quite useful and without soem of these postings the forum would be a less open and friendly place than it is now.

Joe

This isn't a government site.

Freedom of speech does not entitle you to incite racial hatred, slander, or commit libel - no matter where you are

I have to agree with Snook, A lot of threads that were controversal were pulled because of that but they were a source of interest and made the forum a little fun.

I would like to take some members back a little while to the BNP threads where we did have a great debate going on even though the BNP did not participate apart from the usual rubbish that they posted.
Everyone seemed to join in which now has dissapeared!

Most entertaining thread these days would be something along the lines of.." are my toe nails too long?"

I've received several PMs in the past asking if I knew what had happened to 'interesting' threads.

the answer is invariably that 'they got too hot not long after you logged out'.

A topic that you leave whilst it was interesting, may not be there when you come back because it has descended into a heated slagging match since. Disappointing, but....

I remember many of the controversial threads.

If people behaved in them then they were left up. If people broke the Forum rules, then they were pulled.

It really is that simple.

Some of those BNP threads actually ended up with threats of violence being made to members of this Forum, links to websites being posted that we specifically requested not be posted due to us not wishing to have links to such sites, etc. The rules were broken and that was it.

Joe

as i new (ish) member to the forum i find it be exciting, interesting,comical, alittle too far left, a little too far right & occasionally just a bout right. i do think threads are pulled too soon instead of removing the posters.
we are all entitled to our opinion and to post it on here without pushing the extremes, someone commented that this is Geoffs website which is probably true, but it is in the public domain & part financed by advertising. obviously the more viewers/members the better.
instead of moaning perhaps we should all exercise a little moderation in our own posts.

?
as for hate.... ..how can you not hate mans inhumanity to man.

Originally posted by deadgobby
?

My point of view is that none of them are worthy of belonging to any forum as their hate for each other has been evident over the past few years in posts and threads that have since been deleted.
as for hate.... ..how can you not hate mans inhumanity to man.
I see your point but there are limits.....When Thread after thread is pulled due to threats etc and every single new thread by these individuals gets pulled due to the same reason, surely a line has to be drawn somewhere!

Originally posted by Delboy3
I see your point but there are limits.....When Thread after thread is pulled due to threats etc and every single new thread by these individuals gets pulled due to the same reason, surely a line has to be drawn somewhere! I did'nt know about the threats I agree they should be pulled.(as in a redhot poker up thier arse cold end first .....so they have to grab the hot end to" pull "it out

Here is a good example of what I am trying to say.

One Moderator..."Max" Pm,d me and stated that due to me being a candidate for the BNP for 2 years that he assumed that I was a racist nazi with which he only had contempt for me.
THe other personal remarks he made I will keep in text for any future reference.

Max is a moderator in here that has a wife who is a councillor for labour.
His opinions are somewhat self indulging and as a moderator does use his own opinions and position as moderator to weild his little stick if someone should not agree or go against his or his wife's opinions.

Maybe this forum is right in what it stands for and maybe threads like " does my bum look big?" which was a thread in here! should be about the norm for this forum.

Ah, now we're getting to the bottom of things.

What did you say to provoke that PM then?

I'm surprised you even need to pose the question. As long as this forum is dominated (and moderated) by terrorist sympathising, American-hating armchair lefties, the truth will always be the first thing to suffer.

:roll: now how long do you think this thread will remain open for :roll:

some people have no restraint or common sense

Originally posted by Strix
Ah, now we're getting to the bottom of things.

What did you say to provoke that PM then? Actually Strix....I just posted a comment in a thread to which I was then insulted without provocation and it had nothing to do with the actual thread...

This has not happened once but on a few occasions.....I will put my hand up and state that sometimes I do create a bit of crap, But in a lot of cases did not deserve the responce that was totally innapropriate by said person/s

Originally posted by Strix
:roll: now how long do you think this thread will remain open for :roll:

some people have no restraint or common sense

I'm sorry, perhaps you'd prefer to talk about dogs? ;)

Originally posted by Delboy3
Here is a good example of what I am trying to say.

One Moderator..."Max" Pm,d me and stated that due to me being a candidate for the BNP for 2 years that he assumed that I was a racist nazi with which he only had contempt for me.
THe other personal remarks he made I will keep in text for any future reference.

Max is a moderator in here that has a wife who is a councillor for labour.
His opinions are somewhat self indulging and as a moderator does use his own opinions and position as moderator to weild his little stick if someone should not agree or go against his or his wife's opinions.

Maybe this forum is right in what it stands for and maybe threads like " does my bum look big?" which was a thread in here! should be about the norm for this forum.

Therefore you should report this mod to the other mods. Joe has been honest in saying that other mods have brought him into line and i am sure the other mods would do the same with Max if required.

I find the Right v Left wing threads very interesting and entertaining and thsi is often shown by the number of posts on there. However it is a fact of life that certain views will be pulled and people will be reluctant to post certain views.

I for one am neither Left or Right wing and will make comments that can be interpreted as one side or the other. However i make extreme caution making anything towards the right as accusations on towards this side can be far more damaging.

I will say though that i have seen many a deabte from both sides permitted even with extreme views so the Mods do allow thinsg to flow in general

Originally posted by Strix
:roll: now how long do you think this thread will remain open for :roll:

some people have no restraint or common sense its called frustration in not being allowed to have your piont of veiw

Originally posted by Delboy3
Actually Strix....I just posted a comment in a thread to which I was then insulted without provocation and it had nothing to do with the actual thread...

This has not happened once but on a few occasions.....I will put my hand up and state that sometimes I do create a bit of crap, But in a lot of cases did not deserve the responce that was totally innapropriate by said person/s
Unfortunately anything we post creates an impression of ourselves, and people can then read things into other posts based on the character we have portrayed in the past.

Mods are human too

Originally posted by youwhatref
Therefore you should report this mod to the other mods. Joe has been honest in saying that other mods have brought him into line and i am sure the other mods would do the same with Max if required.

I find the Right v Left wing threads very interesting and entertaining and thsi is often shown by the number of posts on there. However it is a fact of life that certain views will be pulled and people will be reluctant to post certain views.

I for one am neither Left or Right wing and will make comments that can be interpreted as one side or the other. However i make extreme caution making anything towards the right as accusations on towards this side can be far more damaging.

I will say though that i have seen many a deabte from both sides permitted even with extreme views so the Mods do allow thinsg to flow in general I do agree with you...I am no more right than left although have been portrayed as Right wing through my connections.
Everyone in the Forum will remember the night I resigned In the Forum and ended up on the Redwatch Hitlist Website.

People like idsco cat etc accept me as I am and do respect my opinions but then take it as far as they can and further in any thread where the opponents to their opinions are present.

I do miss the banter and controversy that these threads present but they are soon pulled sometimes without valid reason that is subject only to the mod's personal opinions being undermined.

What they should do in here is ban all those that ae considered Homophobic, Islamophobic, Racist, or people that have their own moral way of life.....that should cut the numbers down somewhat.....and the Human rights people could use this forum for their own gains....like they do now

Freedom of speech and expression....Just so long as it fits in with other peoples opinions!

good post, having said that ive nothing against gay muslims:heyhey:

Originally posted by brooksy
good post, having said that ive nothing against gay muslims:heyhey:
Actually....THey say that homosexuality in a muslim culture does not exist.....Go to paltalk.com and There is a room just for arab and middle eastern homosexuals......Ha!

Delboy,

If you have a personal set of issues with a particular Moderator than you perhaps need to NOT wash your laundry in public under the guise of being a 'concerned citizen'. To be honest, I'm concerned that this thread is becoming less one about dealing with issues that affect the Forum as a whole and more about your issues with certain Moderators. Was it absolutely necessary to detail the contents of a private PM in a public thread?

Deadgobby mentioned that they didn't know about personal threats, etc. Exactly the problem - threads get pulled by the Mods to prevent such things escalating. We tend to try and keep the problems under control by acting quickly, but soemtimes fail.

Mojoworking - I must be doing something right to be called a terrorist loving leftie by you and a right wing fascist by some other Forum users. :)

Joe

but they are not being 'good moslems' are they?

I've been called a 'racist' by both mods and wanabee mods on various occasions - its true - I hate the British :)

Disappearing threads are just a fact of life - as I was told by a mod - 'if you don't like it, go elsewhere'... very much to the point...

Originally posted by Delboy3
Actually....THey say that homosexuality in a muslim culture does not exist.....Go to paltalk.com and There is a room just for arab and middle eastern homosexuals......Ha! I was in Iran , late 70's homosexualitya way of life. you can't seperate sexual oppression from political and religious oppression.

Originally posted by Delboy3
Actually Strix....I just posted a comment in a thread to which I was then insulted without provocation and it had nothing to do with the actual thread...

This has not happened once but on a few occasions.....I will put my hand up and state that sometimes I do create a bit of crap, But in a lot of cases did not deserve the responce that was totally innapropriate by said person/s

If that's the case then why not report the other poster if it concerns you that much?

And if you do create crap, then sometiems perhaps you just have to put up with the fact that people will occasionally want to give you some in return. It happens to all of us.

Joe

At the end of the day as has been said this site is the personal property of Geoff and he can run it how he wishes.
I have been banned on numerous occasions is is to do with me being right wing ? mm I feel sometimes maybe it is and as some will know I also had a PM from Max along similar lines to Delboys,maybe those with connections to any political party ought to not be moderating on anything to do with politics.
I also think that certain members are watched far more closely than others? anyway I said my peice on it now.

Originally posted by Delboy3
I will be the first to admit that I was part of a right wing party that had some policies that appealed to me but over all....Some of their policies and actions disgusted me and I left due to some of these opinions/policies.

In the Forum I have seem different opinions and I do respect all opinions on merit but have found that we have elements in the forum that tend to live on causing mayhem where opinions of others are not theirs.

I do not like to mention names but certain members such as Disco Cat...Left wing....Has had threads closed due to altercations, name calling etc with other members like Royjames and Craig Mason of the BNP.
In Fact, I have seen some very good threads closed due to personal insults and a total disregard or others opinions.

Some of the Mods have also taken sides in a lot of these debates and have used their positions to ban people that do not agree with their own opinions.

By the way! this is not a dig at anyone and is just an observation of incidents etc that have happened over the past 2 years where comments have been noted.

As such, Since this forum is run by people of different backgrounds and opinions, Should the policies or opinions of both left and right wing organisations be allowed to peddle their filth within this forum?

My point of view is that none of them are worthy of belonging to any forum as their hate for each other has been evident over the past few years in posts and threads that have since been deleted.

Where does this forum draw the line? is it on a personal level with which mod is checking on posts or, is it on a more professional platform where someone as mod or admin deems that such threads are detrimental to their own opinions or to the general publics opinions?

Political censorship is immoral. It is by debating the differences that consensus is reached. If a set of political views or philosophies can stand close scrutiny in the bright light of day then they will grow and ripen, if not they will wither on the vine.

Both left and right have some policies which most people can accept as justified and a combination of these would be beneficial to the country, but without political debate to identify the common ground it will never happen and we will never ever reach the compromises which are necessary to achieve a peaceful co-existance. let them debate and argue the more they do this the more likely a rational outcome will be reached and the ideology which is most appropriate to our peoples needs will prevail.

Originally posted by Internetowl
but they are not being 'good moslems' are they?

I've been called a 'racist' by both mods and wanabee mods on various occasions - its true - I hate the British :)

Disappearing threads are just a fact of life - as I was told by a mod - 'if you don't like it, go elsewhere'... very much to the point... where are you from and why do you hate the brits and have you thought of eating yourself

Where is internetowl coming from with the "i hate british comment":gag:

I'm a dirty paddy and proud of it - an economic migrant too - stealing your jobs.... :D

right then, glad you cleared that up???.:loopy: :loopy:

my main gripe with the mods on this is that when you have a perfectly good thread and someone posts something inapropriate in it instead of just deleting that one post there seems to be a policy of deleting the thread.

Originally posted by robbie
my main gripe with the mods on this is that when you have a perfectly good thread and someone posts something inapropriate in it instead of just deleting that one post there seems to be a policy of deleting the thread.

Mea Culpa on that one, Robbie.

Sometimes we can sort the threads out, other times the 'row' has got to the extent that it would take too long to sort out and in those cases it depends whether we're busy or not. Answer here sometiems is to not get involve din any slanging matches that the original pain in the rear is trying to precipitate.

We are trying to do more 'prunes and bans' rather than total thread removal but even the act of pruning posts out usually leaves the Mods open to the accusations of bias and favouritism. Sometimes it's just easier to let it stay pulled.

This DOES allow some users to post to a thread with the intention of getting the thread removed, but we're more aware of that ploy now!

If you do lose a thread, use 'Contact Us' and we'll try and let you know what the situation is.

Joe

A few words in my own defence as certain people have chosen to name me on here.

Many of you are aware of my political views and most can distinguish between my mod activities and my personal postings.

However, I have left the political threads to others in more recent times as I have had more threats from certain members than is healthy.

When people use expressions such as 'let battle commence', 'we know where you live' and even make references to my partner I feel it is time to take a back seat.

The police, and the particular forum members, know who they are.

I trust Max's posting helps explain a few things about the issues with which we deal with as Mods. Max does excellent work and as he has said has taken a back seat from the political threads.

I've also had personal threats - though not on political issues.

We volunteer for these roles and we're not willing to tolerate that behaviour from people.

I'd like to see this thread not go further in to Mod Bashing or Mod Praising - I think I've laid out the way we do things (again!!) and hope that any further debate is NOT about personalities and Moderating but about the wider issues of political debate.

Joe

Originally posted by redhawk
Political censorship is immoral. It is by debating the differences that consensus is reached. If a set of political views or philosophies can stand close scrutiny in the bright light of day then they will grow and ripen, if not they will wither on the vine.

Both left and right have some policies which most people can accept as justified and a combination of these would be beneficial to the country, but without political debate to identify the common ground it will never happen and we will never ever reach the compromises which are necessary to achieve a peaceful co-existance. let them debate and argue the more they do this the more likely a rational outcome will be reached and the ideology which is most appropriate to our peoples needs will prevail.
All of that would be true if they were still reading each other's posts, but there comes a point where it is evident that they don't.

By those principles, downright rioting would be permissible ;)

I never knew that maxs wife was a labour councillor,this explains much as to his behaviour.
Ok now he has said he does not moderate on political aspects fair enough,but do we know this to be true?? no we dont.
I f I get another ban them I am vindicated in my post,enough said.

Originally posted by Snook
Just seems that the site has become a much less interesting version of its former self (although still a great site).

I think that is a function of the steadily rising user numbers - the signal to noise ratio is steadily declining.

Originally posted by JoeP
Delboy,

Mojoworking - I must be doing something right to be called a terrorist loving leftie by you and a right wing fascist by some other Forum users. :)

Joe

Credit where it's due Joe, you are one of the more politically neutral mods here, although let's not forget the time you came out strongly in defence of Saddam when those pictures of the madman in his Y-Fronts were published ;)

Originally posted by mojoworking
Credit where it's due Joe, you are one of the more politically neutral mods here, although let's not forget the time you came out strongly in defence of Saddam when those pictures of the madman in his Y-Fronts were published ;)

Absolutely - and I've also come out repeatedly in favour of the war in Iraq, in favour of US policy and other things which you selectively fail to mention. :)

Releasing those photographs of Saddam was an own goal of reasonable proportion. I'd say the same thing today.

Joe

Originally posted by royjames
I never knew that maxs wife was a labour councillor,this explains much as to his behaviour.
Ok now he has said he does not moderate on political aspects fair enough,but do we know this to be true?? no we dont.
I f I get another ban them I am vindicated in my post,enough said.

Roy, I have also said that Max doesn't moderate on political issues, and with due respect I should know. And I've never told you a porky.

If you get another ban then it will be due to you breaching forum rules, not because of your politics. And it will be issued by a Moderator based on the forum rules, not based on your or their political beliefs.

Joe

Originally posted by mojoworking
Credit where it's due Joe, you are one of the more politically neutral mods here, although let's not forget the time you came out strongly in defence of Saddam when those pictures of the madman in his Y-Fronts were published ;)

Joe was absolutely right in his condemnation of those photos.

They were demeaning to everyone involved - the photographer, the publisher, the prurient viewers. Shameful and unnecessary.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by JoeP
If you get another ban then it will be due to you breaching forum rules, not because of your politics. And it will be issued by a Moderator based on the forum rules, not based on your or their political beliefs.

Joe

I think it's fair to say that several mods apply the rules selectively depending on how far left they are personally and how much the thread suits their political leanings.

I've seen many rabid anti-west, pro-Muslim threads degenerate into name calling and they have not been pulled, but as soon as a few home truths about Islam appear, the "racist" card is played it's usually Goodnight Vienna.

Originally posted by StarSparkle
Joe was absolutely right in his condemnation of those photos.

They were demeaning to everyone involved - the photographer, the publisher, the prurient viewers. Shameful and unnecessary.

StarSparkle

That's your opinion which of course you're entitled to. Many other people feel that it's pretty well impossible to humiliate Saddam the mass murderer and war criminal simply by showing him in his underpants.

I wonder if you'd have cried "foul" if the picture was of George Bush? I doubt it somehow.

Originally posted by mojoworking
I think it's fair to say that several mods apply the rules selectively depending on how far left they are personally and how much the thread suits their political leanings.

I've seen many rabid anti-west, pro-Muslim threads degenerate into name calling and they have not been pulled, but as soon as a few home truths about Islam appear, the "racist" card is played it's usually Goodnight Vienna.

Funny, we usually get in to trouble for pulling the pro-Muslim threads as well.

I think whatever threads are pulled or not pulled, someone will always see bias. As I keep saying - if you have an issue then report the decision using Contact Us and either Tony, Geoff or I will look in to it.

If people just keep saying that there are prolems, but never actually tell us, then things aren't actually going to change.

Joe

Originally posted by mojoworking
That's your opinion which of course you're entitled to. Many other people feel that it's pretty well impossible to humiliate Saddam the mass murderer and war criminal simply by showing him in his underpants.

I wonder if you'd have cried "foul" if the picture was of George Bush? I doubt it somehow.

So why take the photograph of Saddam and show it to the world if the intent wasn't to humiliate him? Of course it was.

And if the same was done to George Bush - or Tony Blair - or whoever - I'd say exactly the same thing: it's a sad, cheap and pathetic attempt at humiliation that only results in those taking/publishing/viewing the photographs losing their dignity.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by Snook
This is someones website, not a democracy... They can choose what they want to have on their site, just as you can choose who and what you want in your house.

My personal opinion is that the site has changed, and the moderating has become more about what people find personally acceptable, rather than just running the site.

I would much rather see peoples opinions of hot topics, as long as they aren't too insulting, than read the bland goings on that seem to make up 90% of the threads now.

I would rather see the mods looking after things like pointless postings and stupid replies, which used to be done, but no longer is.

Just seems that the site has become a much less interesting version of its former self (although still a great site). This is just my opinion though, and I don't have anything against the mods, they mostly do a good job of things, and as I've said before, I think it takes a special kind of person.

I'd like to see a return to subjects like the BNP though, but that would obviously require work from the mods.

Very true. I'd imagine that most of us veterans of the site will agree too. Lively, political debate has been replaced with dull, trivial topics, dating and mutual butt kissing across most of the forum. I'm not sure how much of it is down to the moderators though. Sometimes things just become a victim of their own success.

Originally posted by StarSparkle
So why take the photograph of Saddam and show it to the world if the intent wasn't to humiliate him? Of course it was.

And if the same was done to George Bush - or Tony Blair - or whoever - I'd say exactly the same thing: it's a sad, cheap and pathetic attempt at humiliation that only results in those taking/publishing/viewing the photographs losing their dignity.

StarSparkle


You misunderstand me. Of course it was done to humiliate him and quite rightly so.

My point was, short of a public rogering by a prize Tamworth boar, it's impossible to humiliate Saddam ENOUGH .

When all's said and done, the perceived "humiliation" you bleat about is a small price to pay after all the misery, death and destruction the madman has caused.

I wonder, would you feel the same sympathy about a photo of Hitler in his underdaks?

Originally posted by max
A few words in my own defence as certain people have chosen to name me on here.

Many of you are aware of my political views and most can distinguish between my mod activities and my personal postings.

However, I have left the political threads to others in more recent times as I have had more threats from certain members than is healthy.

When people use expressions such as 'let battle commence', 'we know where you live' and even make references to my partner I feel it is time to take a back seat.

The police, and the particular forum members, know who they are.
I must say your post makes me smile!

Without doing any mud slinging, If you did not try to humiliate or insult people by posting comments that are irrelevant to a thread and directed at people that you assume are racist bigots etc, then you get what you deserve.

It has been on a few occasions that you have taken it on yourself to start trouble with someone without provocation as you did with me the last time then state afterwards that you assumed that I was a racist bigot because of my past connections.
This would have been fair if the thread was about politics or racism but it was far from it and your comments were posted to belittle and humiliate.

I have never openly attacked you in the forum in any threads yet you have seen fit to do so and have put your foot in your mouth more than once.
One example was when you called a Jamaican (you never bothered to read the posts) a racist, white supremist in a thread where she posted a comment about asylum.

Made me laugh!

It is easy to go around the different threads and just post comments that could lead to hassles then not bother to go into that thread again which is exactly what I have seen happen.

Anyway, I am way off topic and what I was asking originally was: AS mentioned earlier, this forum is not a democracy and does pull threads that are of a certain political nature that are not within the opinions of some moderators.

Should the forum allow debate of a political nature at all?

In politics there will allways be heated debate and mud slinging and the same goes for any debate about religion.
With this in mind, it is expected that any thread that is about politics or religion to create some problems for the ones that are moderating the threads but how far are they allowed to go seems to depend on the individual moderator's own opinions as opposed to the forum rules.

Delboy,

I've explained what Forum policy is.

You started by asking whether political debate should be allowed on this Forum and the answer, I believe, is Yes. There will be issues that trigger strong emotions.

If you have issues with certain Moderators and their moderating, then the time to bring it up was when it happened. Issues about the moderating of political threads have been discussed between the Mods and I've explained how we try and do this. I get the feeling, however, that you're not that interested in progressing forward but simply wish to refight old battles.

t020 - as a relative 'newbie' on this Forum I can recollect that there have always been 'trivial' threads. Whether there has een a Golden Age of Sheffield Forum when debate was of such a quality that it put Parliament to shame I have no idea, but having seen quite a few of the political threads in the last 18 months I would say that whilst they've been good in places, in other places they've degenerated in to the name calling and threats that seem more at home in a school playground.

I think that with increasing users of the Forum there is likely to be more 'fluffy' topics than serious ones. If we want serious debate then we need to do two things :

Start some serious topics off.
Use self-discipline and self-moderation so that the Mods don't have to get involved.

I've explained that we will try and keep threads open for as long as we can - but we WON'T put up with breaches of Forum Rules.

Joe

Originally posted by t020
Very true. I'd imagine that most of us veterans of the site will agree too. Lively, political debate has been replaced with dull, trivial topics

Some people (me included) find political debate (and the attempts to turn threads into a political debate) dull and boring.

Perhaps the politics forum could be brought back for the intellectual heavyweights amongst us ?

Originally posted by nick2
Some people (me included) find political debate (and the attempts to turn threads into a political debate) dull and boring.

Perhaps the politics forum could be brought back for the intellectual heavyweights amongst us ?

Interesting idea - we'll put it on the pile but I doubt it will happen real soon.

I was heavily involved in moderating the politics forum and for a few weeks it took up all of my free time. Despite requests for civilised behaviour, not to post links to party web sites, etc. some users just took great pleasure in disregarding teh rules.

Threats were made, insults traded, we found ourselves with links to extremist web sites, forum members ended up wanting to meet each other in the streets for punch ups and so on. We were also becoming a popular stopping off point for many people who just saw SF as a convenient place to showcase their political views.

We pulled the Forum only after a lot of debate.

This is a private site and we felt that the Politics Forum was taking too much time and effort to moderated so that a relatively small but vocal group of forum users had a platform.

As I keep saying, if people want to genuinely debate politics, great. It should be posisble to do such things without sinking down to name calling and tit - for - tat school yard insults. If people wish political threads to stay on the Forum, then they need to act like civilised adults and not name calling children.

Joe

Originally posted by Delboy3

I do not like to mention names but certain members such as Disco Cat...

For someone who doesn't like to mention names Derek you seem to do it a lot.

As long as this site has members who are openly racist BNP supporters,
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=526296#post526296
you will always get people opposing their openly racist and pro BNP posts. If you didn't have this opposition to the BNP then this forum would not be representative of Sheffield as I'm sure your aware from your flirtation with the party, people round here don't like them.

The altercations you accuse me of could easily have been avoided if Roy James had ever actually answered the questions people put to him in the politics threads rather then dodging them with his 'wit'. As you yourself have stated many times. this endless repettition of questions got more shutdown then insults.

Regarding bad language and personal insults, I admit I have been guilty of this in the past, mostly when I've made the mistake of coming on ******. But if your truthful Derek how many threads have you closed down because of too much booze?

Remember the night you came on after hosting a party for some firemen? A thread that had been going for a good week or two was shut down because of you just openly abusing me and other users and mods. Some of the homophobia targeted at RedRobbo has been truly disgusting and very revealing of the people who use it as a means of discussion and debate.

Originally posted by Delboy3
My point of view is that none of them are worthy of belonging to any forum as their hate for each other has been evident over the past few years


I think you need to read some of the "love ins" that have been occurring between Timo and myself to see that people who may disagree on politics can get along on this site. I disagree with him entirely on practically every subject but I've never seen him resort to open abuse and he'll never seek to silence my opinions by putting my picture and home phone number on redwatch. Which as you have learnt is how some users of this forum try to threaten and scare people who disagree with them.


Incidentally according to the local government watch dog calling Roy James and his BNP buddies Nazi's is not an insult but views which can be expressed within the confines of a political debate.
http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/index.php?location=news&art=277

Following what Disco Cat has just said, I think it is very important to maintain a level of civilised, courteous debate on the forum. My views, as most on here know, are of a right wing Tory persuasion. Intelligent posters of the left, such as Disco Cat himself [in particular], Greenback, Red Robbo, Kathythebean etc realise that there is a huge gulf between my Burkean views and Nazism. Posters such as those previously mentioned are often my opponents in debate, but never enemies. They have the sense and maturity to realise that it is possible to dissent from the left/liberal consensus without being a lederhosen-clad psychopath.

However, there are a minority of posters on the forum who rush quickly to label any criticism of multiculturalism, mass immigration etc as 'white fascist stuff', 'a 'racist rant' or 'brownshirt' material. Aside from the plain fact that such accusations are potentially libellous, they are completely untrue. Personally, I would never try to 'silence' other posters this way, preferring to treat their views as challenges to be proven or unproven. I think a minority of posters have no social skills in real life, and this comes across glaringly in the anti-social behaviour they display on line.

I have never met either Roy James or Disco Cat [they represent two ends of the political spectrum], but I am certain that it would be possible to enjoy a pleasant, civilised and humorous drink with them. In the case of the numpties who mistake my postings [and those of other conservatives] for 'white racism', I would rather endure a vasectomy with nail clippers than spend a second in the company of such retards and inadequates.

Sorry- I should have said 'disproven' not 'unproven' there. That is just in case any self-appointed literary expert jumps in !

Originally posted by mojoworking
You misunderstand me. Of course it was done to humiliate him and quite rightly so.

My point was, short of a public rogering by a prize Tamworth boar, it's impossible to humiliate Saddam ENOUGH .

When all's said and done, the perceived "humiliation" you bleat about is a small price to pay after all the misery, death and destruction the madman has caused.

I wonder, would you feel the same sympathy about a photo of Hitler in his underdaks?


I object to ANY photograph of ANYONE taken with the sole intention of humiliating them in front of the world.

Whoever they are - whatever they've done - there are some things that by their very nature are just Not Right.

Actions like that demean the Human Spirit, and so demean all of us.

I don't expect you to understand that, Mojoworking, but perhaps you will some day.

StarSparkle

best stop buying the sun then, 'specially page 3.

Originally posted by willman
best stop buying the sun then, 'specially page 3.

Can't say I've ever bought that trash in my life, although I fail to see the relevance of your comment.

Presumably your average Page 3 model disrobes quite happily for the money, and is therefore not humiliated in the way I described above? :rolleyes:

StarSparkle

how do u know saddam was humiliated.
has he told u, he may have liked being in the press yet again.

oh sorry last time he was in the press he had committed some of the worst atrocities ever seen.

i don't suppose you agree with naming & shaming of offenders/rapists etc that were in todays Express.

OK, this thread is about left and right wing politics and the moderating of the same, not on the popular press.

Please get it back on track, please.

Thanks,

Joe

Talking about the moderating on here I think that most of the time they get it right,But on accasions I feel they pull threads before they ought to be.
Now to the political leaning of this site,I feel its left of centre and I suppose being in Sheffield it by and large is representative of the city as a whole.
Mind you I keep trying to change this all the time.;)

And by and large, you are trying.

But without the polemics, this and every other discussion-based site would be far duller places. Bring on the nutters, cranks and bigots, I say. They liven up all our days, and give those who take themselves a bit seriously something to grind their teeth about. Hurrah!

Originally posted by Delboy3

In the Forum I have seem different opinions and I do respect all opinions on merit.......



Do you really "respect all opinions on merit" Delboy3? Maybe you are suffering from short-term memory loss?

On the 'What do you think about Gay people?' thread, I replied to a number of posts that you had made. Your response resulted in a warning from a Mod, which you acknowledged here -
Originally posted by Delboy3
My appologies Joe...I will not carry on.......cheers

However, you soon forgot your promise not to "carry on", and after two further posts, in which you descended into offensive homophobic rants personally directed at me, your posts were deleted, and you received a ban. I am now somewhat amused to read on this thread your following observation -

Originally posted by Delboy3
What they should do in here is ban all those that are considered Homophobic, Islamophobic, Racist .....that should cut the numbers down somewhat.....



Well, what should we say to you? Maybe 'Goodbye' :wave: ?

But, I suspect, you'd be back. After all, you did once state........

Originally posted by Delboy3

You can get my arse booted out of here permanently....would stop me from coming in reading all the crap that you lot put in here.

<Moderator Edit>.....

........and you're still here! And it's so good to see that you are still respecting "all opinions on merit", including "the crap that you lot put in here". There's nothing like consistency Delboy3.

As for right and left wing views being aired on the forum - it makes much more interesting reading than some of the drivel you occasionally see on the forum.

Originally posted by redrobbo
Do you really "respect all opinions on merit" Delboy3? Maybe you are suffering from short-term memory loss?

On the 'What do you think about Gay people?' thread, I replied to a number of posts that you had made. Your response resulted in a warning from a Mod, which you acknowledged here -


However, you soon forgot your promise not to "carry on", and after two further posts, in which you descended into offensive homophobic rants personally directed at me, your posts were deleted, and you received a ban. I am now somewhat amused to read on this thread your following observation -



Well, what should we say to you? Maybe 'Goodbye' :wave: ?

But, I suspect, you'd be back. After all, you did once state........



........and you're still here! And it's so good to see that you are still respecting "all opinions on merit", including "the crap that you lot put in here". There's nothing like consistency Delboy3.

As for right and left wing views being aired on the forum - it makes much more interesting reading than some of the drivel you occasionally see on the forum. Actually Red! if I remember correctly the thread was a question that asked what a person thought regarding gay people.

I did give my opinion which was civil and WAS! my own opinion of what I thought about gays.
My initial opinion was not directed at you in any way as you had not even posted in the thread before my posting!

It was after my opinion was posted that you took offence and went way off track from the thread content by trying to substantiate your own existance as a homosexual and stated that your actions and way of life were "normal"

Because my opinion was not P.C. as you would have wanted, it was you yourself that set the ball rolling for the comments you then recieved back.

Again as in this thread which is about political threads, should they be allowed due to peoples difference of opinions and the moderators own opinions playing a role in their decisions, You have again gone way off track to create a situation.

AS far as respecting others opinions on merit, This doesn't mean that I respect those opinions that have no merit or are in my opinion immoral.

And YES! I did state "the crap that you lot put in here" but please put that comment into context with the thread at the time and not as a comment made regarding all threads.

So easy to quote snippets and throw them in a post.

That can really wind people up, taking snippets of what they said previously and joining the bits together makes me very angry:mad: I think people should be allowed their opinion - within reason and keep each thread as a separate issue instead of bringing old grudges into the subject.

Just because people don't agree on one topic shouldn't mean they have to disagree with that person/persons for ever more on every thread! Some people end up contradicting themselves just to have personal slanging matches.

:)

Originally posted by tulip
That can really wind people up, taking snippets of what they said previously and joining the bits together makes me very angry:mad: I think people should be allowed their opinion - within reason and keep each thread as a separate issue instead of bringing old grudges into the subject.

Just because people don't agree on one topic shouldn't mean they have to disagree with that person/persons for ever more on every thread! Some people end up contradicting themselves just to have personal slanging matches.

:)

That's what they did to Enoch Powell to destroy his carreer...

Innit like :D

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
That's what they did to Enoch Powell to destroy his carreer...

Innit like :D Oh, poor enoch, they should have made him PM :gag:

Originally posted by JoeP
t020 - as a relative 'newbie' on this Forum I can recollect that there have always been 'trivial' threads. Whether there has een a Golden Age of Sheffield Forum when debate was of such a quality that it put Parliament to shame I have no idea, but having seen quite a few of the political threads in the last 18 months I would say that whilst they've been good in places, in other places they've degenerated in to the name calling and threats that seem more at home in a school playground.


This is kinda inevitable in many ways, because what you've just delineated is very close to the modus operandi of the House of Commons.

But amid the catcalling and scratchy-eyes fighting of these threads there is often some quite rational and intelligent debate. I personally gain great pleasure from watching the galumphing and harrumphing of some of the dafter elements. And I derive even greater pleasure from observing the clever guys when - and this is fortunately most of the time - they step away from their high horse, because some genuinely rational, intelligent, inventive and reasonable political input then moves the debate on. This is a good, active and varied forum.

Well said, Joyphil. I imagine all forums have their deficits, and are the battlefield for personal grudges at some time or other.This one is, on the whole, a place to find some very high quality debate indeed. The former politics threads did degenerate into bear pits at times, but also demonstrated the intellectual prowess and analytical abilities of some excellent posters. There was plenty of good humour too, and mutual respect between posters from opposite ends of the political spectrum. The moderators, especially Joe P and Max are to be congratulated for the sterling job they did on days when tempers flared, and emotions ran high. Regarding the moderation of topics around race and immigration, those two gentlemen deserved the George Cross!

i think that it make's for good debates just so long as it does not get into a personal slanging match if we all keep our cool and stick to the forum rules then the opposing views should be allowed