I'm having a difference of opinion with someone over this, and I was hoping that some of you who really know computers could set me straight.

I say, an IP number is actually owned by the ISP, no private individual ever owns an IP number. The only info your IP number reveals about you is your approximate geographic location, such as a country and city, and your ISP.

It doesn't reveal your name, home address, phone number, etc., that info is only known by the ISP, and only given up by them for law enforcement. If you have a firewall or router, all the computers behind the firewall or router have the same IP address.

And if you have a dynamic IP, as I do, it changes every time you turn off the modem.

This person claims there are programs out there that can determine a persons name and ISP from their IP number, and once armed with their name and a city, you can find them through public records and such. I still maintain you'd only get as far as the person's ISP, I don't see how you'd get a name from an IP number.

I'm not terribly computer savvy, and the thought that someone might be able to track me (or any of my family) down armed with just an IP number makes me a little uneasy.

So. Who's right? Are there programs out there such as this person claims? If there are, they have GOT to be illegal.

Exactly what does an IP number reveal?

:) Sierra

Hi,

A bit of both.... :)

An individual CAN own an IP address - if they're wealthy enough. :) They's have to have a sub net assigned to them and provide their own connection to the Internet - effectively becoming their own ISP.

Now, with a registered domain, you can get at quite a few 'real world' details. So if you have a website, and you own the domain, you can use software called WHOIS to get at teh details of who the contacts are for that domain. If that IP domain maps on to an IP address 'one to one' then in principle you can get details from an IP address by doing a reverse look up to get the domain name then use WHOIS.

When you register a domain name here in the UK, you can opt to have some of your details withheld form public view. But yes, if you register a domain for a web site, and regsiter yourself as the administarative contact, then your address is on public file.

Joe

Thanks Joe,

That makes me feel better. I'm certainly not wealthy enough to own my own IP number, and I don't have a website.

Am I correct in assuming that it would be impossible for someone to get personal details just from an IP number? By itself?

I still say it would be.

:) Sierra

The site www.dnsstuff.com can do a 'city from ip' lookup. Its not 100% accurate by any means (they claim 50-80% accurate for cities, 95%+ accurate for country), but it identifies me as being in Sheffield correctly.

The reverse DNS of my IP address also identifies me as being in Sheffield, ie 123-45-78-90.cable.ubr05.shef.blueyonder.co.uk (I've changed the first bit as thats my IP address). I am unsure if the ubr05 bit can locate me any more accurately than just Sheffield?

The bit that Joe says about people owning an IP address is technically true, but people can have a fixed IP address from their ISP -- many ISPs provide this free of charge by default. Blueyonder also have practially a fixed IP for their broadband users (technically its dynamic but they reserve it for you for a period of time before returning it to the pool - mines been the same for ages). Of course, the difference here is that the IP address still belongs to the ISP and can only reveal -their- details. Its just a warning that you can't assume that your IP address will change every time you connect.

AFAIK, the ubr05 is specific to particular exchanges so you could narrow down your location a bit.

just found this info about blueyonder dns naming conventions (http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/blueyonder/getContent.jspx?page=h_internet_advanced_dns) which is interesting. it seems you're right about the ubr bit, but they dont seem to publish that information. surely wouldn't be hard to find out tho.

and if they wanted they could find out your isp, ip number and use abit of the old social engineering with the isp to find out your full details if they really wanted to...............not that im trying to make you paranoid or owt :P

I have my own IP address from BT, but the last time I looked it just maps to BT.

You can get down to the local exchange level as you're talking to a server there to provide PPP connectivity from your modem, or routing from your router. So the ISP's POP will be used by a number of subscribers in your area. I guess you COULD therefore, at least work out which phone exchange serves you.

Interestingly enough the site above got me as being in London, which may be true as far as the IP address is concerned but isn't true as far as yours truly is concerned.

Some years ago I was involved in some work that involved tracking down some bad guys who were being naughty online. Suffice to say that to go the 'last mile' we handed over to the police, ISP and phone company. It was 'non trivial' without a lot of insider information to get a physical address from an ISP's IP address.

Joe

So, am I wrong?

I still say it's impossible to get a name from just an IP address. It seems all you'd get from an IP number is maybe the right city and an ISP. Nothing more.

I suppose if someone has your e-mail address, they could try to track you down with the information in the headers, but basically, it looks like all they'd have is a whole lotta nuthin'.

I have $50 riding on this. Does someone else have any info that would prove useful? Thanks for your replies guys.

:) Sierra

You are wrong.

Take my ISP for example. They assign IPs with customer names attached to them. So you can take my IP, and find out my name.

Other ISPs do this. Some don't.

http://www.ripe.net/whois?form_type=simple&full_query_string=&searchtext=82.68.92.13&do_search=Search

That's the IP range I had last year and shared amongst my house. See 'Mr Chris Thorpe'

Since I don't consider my real name private on the internet, and I'm not using the IPs anymore, it's not a problem to list it here.

Would be interesting to see how many ISPs do that, I would have thought it's not many (has to be a static IP first of all). I'm not sure I'd be particularly happy about that, although I guess they will have it covered in the T&Cs... Wish I could remember my old Zen ip range, would be interesting to see if it's still assigned to me!

Whoa.

That's not what I expected. But thanks, anyway. I don't want to lose $50!

I think I'll just call up my ISP and ask them. I know my IP is dynamic, and I'm in California, so maybe things are different here. I guess there's no hard and fast rule, it depends on the ISP.

I have tried to track my own IP number, and only gotten as fas as the ISP. The trail stops there.

:) Sierra

Well if it's dynamic, there can be no way to trace it directly to you without detailed ISP records, although they have a reasonably good chance of the city...

Although maybe they could correlate the IP with the above post where you've just told us you are in CA ;)

*jumping up and down with joy*

I knew it! It is definitely dynamic. I've rebooted the modem and it's always a different IP.

I think as long as someone only has the city and an IP, there's not much they could do with that. Could they? :suspect:

They would really need a first and last name. If they had that...and a city...I think they could find you.

Ok. Thanks. I'm off to call my ISP. If anyone else has any other opinions, I'd sure like to hear 'em.

:) Sierra