i was talkin to a close and dear freind of mine tonight and he said that casual sex was a bad thing i said not if u are single and are carefull. the topic then changed to married couples so i said some couples choose to stay together but sleep with other people my freind got very angery about this so basicly i was wondering wot everyone else thinks of this is it ok if both parties of a married couple agrees it is ok to see other people and do you think it is wrong.

yes lib couples rock

I think it's perfectly fine if (and only if) BOTH parties consent & agree and are comfortable with this arrangement.

People live how they want to live and so they should, though I think it's rare that couples would reach this sort of understanding. Jealousy often plays a big part in relationships & I can only imagine how my bf would feel and react if I said "hey let's sleep with other people". He'd hit the roof!

As long as all parties are happy and safe, then I see no harm. I do think though, that casual sex for a single person is usually an indicator for some sort of insecurity or unhappiness (not always) and if me and my partner were wanting to sleep with other people, I might wonder what had gone wrong in our sex life... I can't imagine ever wanting to be with anyone else.

A few years ago - possibly liittle over a decade - there was a name reserved for people who slept around. The name still stands. You sleep around and you get branded with the name.

I do not believe it is right morally or ethically. What happened to getting to know someone first? Lets hope that these people who go in for casual sex do not meet any psychos.

Dragon

hmmm tough one this..

i would never stay withanyone for the sake of the children,(which is why most of these couple stay together) if you are not in a realationship with who you live with then the kids will pick up on that and it be very confusing..

what happens if you meet someone you actually want ot be with?

i just do not see the point in being "together" if you are not.

each to their own and all and you are no better/worse a person in my eyes i just dont think i could live like that..

as for the sleeping around bit.. as long as you are VERY carefull and know who you are seeing and not meeting strangers then i see no harm in it:thumbsup:

Originally posted by savbaby
hmmm tough one this..

i would never stay withanyone for the sake of the children,(which is why most of these couple stay together) if you are not in a realationship with who you live with then the kids will pick up on that and it be very confusing..

what happens if you meet someone you actually want ot be with?

i just do not see the point in being "together" if you are not.

each to their own and all and you are no better/worse a person in my eyes i just dont think i could live like that..

as for the sleeping around bit.. as long as you are VERY carefull and know who you are seeing and not meeting strangers then i see no harm in it:thumbsup:


well have i have no idea what you would do if you met someone you actualy wanted to be with other than your partner if either party did they would have to discuss that if and when it ever happend

Originally posted by psynuk
yes lib couples rock

thankyou i think it is up to each indiviual couple what they do in there own marrige/relationship

Originally posted by Dragon
A few years ago - possibly liittle over a decade - there was a name reserved for people who slept around. The name still stands. You sleep around and you get branded with the name.

I do not believe it is right morally or ethically. What happened to getting to know someone first? Lets hope that these people who go in for casual sex do not meet any psychos.

Dragon

Dragon, I'm not sure what you mean, what name? It stopped being used about ten years ago but it still stands as a brand for people - can you enlighten me, as you've totally confused me now ...

As for the orginal question, IMO, what anyone, couple or singleton, decides to do in their private lives is surely a question for themselves alone and not for others to judge - provided of course, that they aren't doing anything illegal or that will bring harm to other non-consenting parties or putting anyone under duress or coercion. (gawd, we're all starting to sound like solicitors, adding get-out clauses these days. Oh, the joys of forum posting :D)

There's a very puritanical, judgmental streak in many people and it seems to be particularly strong in relation to sexual matters. It seems a pity, as making love not war always seemed the better alternative to me!

Originally posted by rubydazzler
Dragon, I'm not sure what you mean, what name? It stopped being used about ten years ago but it still stands as a brand for people - can you enlighten me, as you've totally confused me now ...



Slapper!:gag: :D

Originally posted by sugarnspice
I think it's perfectly fine if (and only if) BOTH parties consent & agree and are comfortable with this arrangement.

People live how they want to live and so they should, though I think it's rare that couples would reach this sort of understanding. Jealousy often plays a big part in relationships & I can only imagine how my bf would feel and react if I said "hey let's sleep with other people". He'd hit the roof!


thankyou for the advice sugar i myself know of three couples two of which are married and have been married 6 yrs and 9 years and the other couple have been together for 4 years they all have this understanding. And my bf would react the same way too but i have to say two of the couples were having problems and when thet started this ermmm agrement they instantly changed they do more things together and seem happier i do not know if this is because they are both havin their cake and eatin it although i suspect it is

Originally posted by rubydazzler
Dragon, I'm not sure what you mean, what name? It stopped being used about ten years ago but it still stands as a brand for people - can you enlighten me, as you've totally confused me now ...

As for the orginal question, IMO, what anyone, couple or singleton, decides to do in their private lives is surely a question for themselves alone and not for others to judge - provided of course, that they aren't doing anything illegal or that will bring harm to other non-consenting parties or putting anyone under duress or coercion. (gawd, we're all starting to sound like solicitors, adding get-out clauses these days. Oh, the joys of forum posting :D)

There's a very puritanical, judgmental streak in many people and it seems to be particularly strong in relation to sexual matters. It seems a pity, as making love not war always seemed the better alternative to me!

thankyou ruby i also think the same as you

Originally posted by miniminch
Slapper!:gag: :D

you're a mind reader now, are you - minminch, to add to all your other talents? :P But thank you for the clarification, although I'd still like to hear from the op Dragon. :)

In my ignorance, I always thought that all the derogatory, demeaning, insulting and derisory sexual namecalling was only ever aimed at women ...

Dragon said 'people' and men are people too ... so I thought there was a masculine/unisex name he knew of, which i was going to make "word of the week" :D

As for couples sleeping around, it is up to the couple themselves. Obviously, only one of the two sleeping around is wrong ,it is on the increase either due to selfish reasons or just general unhappiness in a relationship which they wont leave for whatever reasons.

If couples do agree to sleeping with others, IMO sleeping with another regular partner will eventually bring feelings into it. Sleeping with strangers obviously brings dangers of its own.

I know that many couples do swinging parties although personally i dont know of any who do. As Marriage is about being faithful then maybe they should remain as a couple only. Although in this modern day era should it be the wording used for marriage changed or the option presented to the couples to have the word faithful removed?

I'm in two minds about this type of 'relationship'.

One part of me says, if that is what floats their boats and they are not hurting anyone else, then go for it.

But another part of me thinks, it is a bit cowardly. Wanting the appearance of being in a committed relationship, when you are sleeping with or dating other people.

Why not be honest and take the plunge and spilt up with the partner and be a strong independant single person and then it is up to you who you date.

I wonder if these 'liberated' couples, know their relationship is dead but don't have the courage to spilt up and be single again and so they live this unbalanced life instead ? Maybe this lifestyle choice, holds them back from finding a new life ?

I am very happy with my partner, but if I was given the choice between being in an open relatonship or being single, I would take being single any day.

IMO If you have no desire to commit to a relationship, then you are not with the right person. :)

I am not certain what words are allowed in here but the word i am thinking of begins with w - has 5 letters in it and ends in e. This term is and can be applied to males and females - though it is generally used with females.

I know of open relationships - liberated couples - and they are not couples any more. This is great when children are involved. And no-one has explained why it is okay to have casual sex while outside a relationship, but it is only harmless in a relationship if both partners agree to it. It's harmless or it isn't. Harmless - explain that to the children of those who are no longer together.

Liberated couples should not be couples. Doesn't being 'liberated' mean you are just playing at a relationship? Hmmm! Think my mind is pretty set on this one.

Dragon

I'd have to say I'm with PIF_Tails on this one...

Part of me thinks that if that's what they want to do then all power to them, fair enough.

Having said that - the majority of me would have to think that if people are doing this then there's problems.

If you need to look anywhere apart from your partner to get something you want/need in your relationshipm, then (to my mind) you're with the wrong person.

Unfortunately these days sex has lost a lot of that it seems - to a lot of people it's almost like a hobby... "lets go out, get hammered and get laid".

It just depends on your out look on sex I suppose - in my opinion, sex should be the ultimate act of love and passion - two bodies intertwined, joined as one. That's why it's called making love. But obviously not everyone thinks that as not everyone's the same.

Back to the original point, I don't see people having this kind of relationship as cheating - they're two very different things - but I think the symptoms may be the same (or similar)... either one or both of the people in the relationship (to my mind) can't be truly happy or commited to that relationship to want to sleep with someone else.

Personally I don't think that anybody else's relationship has anything to do with anybody else.

If both partners have established their boundaries and that works for them, nobody else is entitled to an opinion on the matter.

.....Unless, of course, there's a single person somewhere who isn't informed that they are spending their time with a married person


In my book - there's a difference between love and lust. Two completely separate things.

I think people are entitled to an opinion regardless of their involvement. We going to enter a state where it is wrong for people to have opinions now? Seems a bit extreme.

I have the opinion that it is wrong to do something and I am entitled to that opinion. Someone else has the opinion that it is right to do something - they are entitled to that opinion.

Opinions and interference are different so maybe I misunderstood your post Strix?

Dragon

The thing that strikes me as odd is trying to decide whether being liberated whilst married is right or wrong. My point being...if they are pondering over this question...did they stop to ponder over their marriage vows (which are seen as legal) stating that they will remain faithful to each other to the exclusion of all others. How can they legally vow this with little thought...yet find more to ponder over when it comes to being liberated......it seems the marriage vows have little strength when they are deciding this. In other words...if marriage vows are taken so lightly, then why is this liberating matter such a brain ache? Why bother getting married?

Originally posted by Fragonard
.... they will remain faithful to each other to the exclusion of all others. ....
Mine didn't say that :confused:

Originally posted by Dragon
Opinions and interference are different so maybe I misunderstood your post Strix?

Dragon
Some people have 'opinions' about homosexuality. As a society we now deny them the right to express them and inflict them upon others

Well if it wasn't said then it doesn't count uh?

You never said tyo your partner - I have only got eyes for you, or you are the only person I will ever love, or any of the billion variants? So basically you was lying? Good thing to build a relationship on?

But seriously - you have to think there is something seriously wrong with a relationship if one or both of the people involved are just freelancing whenever they get the offer? Why bother with the relationship? You have a partner jsut for security or something? There is no security in it cos eventually one of you is going to meet someone who means a little more, perhaps.

Sorry - it is wrong IMO.

It is not the opinion that homosexuality is a problem that is the problem - it is what follows after having that opinion that is wrong. It is my opinion that homosexuality is not, perhaps, normal - but if blokes want to go that way that is there business. My personal opinion has not affected them.


Dragon

I think it fine if the couple both feel the same way, and are both happy. I'm sure, however, that in many cases there is one person who wants to try it and their partner just goes along with it... probably out of fear of losing them. This I find quite sad, as I'm sure they're unhappy with the situation.

Personally, I'd feel that my relationship was failing if my partner had to go to somebody else for sex. What if after that they went to somebody else for hugs and kisses, then to somebody else for conversation? What does your relationship boil down to but security and safety?

But each to their own, just my opinion and all that. I think it is wrong to judge other people just because you have a different opinion... I certainly think it is out of order to be calling people 'whore' or 'slapper'.

What about a situation where, say, 95% of a relationship was perfect and there were children, family, business involved too?

Do you really think that for a measly 5% people should just give up on that relationship? If it was dancing, painting, amdram, fishing, football, or a church choir or whatever interest that was the missing 5% - people could go and do their own thing with other companions and no-one would turn a hair.

But if it happens to be sex that's the missing 5% - everyone wants to put in their twopenn'orth and start pontificating. IMO, what people do in their private life to make their lives complete is nothing to do with anyone else.

It's just not fair to expect one person to be all in all for anyone else for their whole lives through - it's not possible for most of us. People change over the years in different ways, why should they divorce when they're perfectly happy together just because some other people they don't even know have rigid sexual mores and want to do a bit of moralising about it.

Originally posted by Dragon
Well if it wasn't said then it doesn't count uh?

You never said tyo your partner - I have only got eyes for you, or you are the only person I will ever love, or any of the billion variants? So basically you was lying? Good thing to build a relationship on?

Dragon

Like I said - it's none of your business.

Our relationship is based upon the restrictions we have sat down and dicussed and agreed between us.

If I provide any more information, I will be inviting people such as yourself to pass judgement on our relationship - which would be wrong

Nope - think you are flying off the handle a bit. The point is that it is fine to have a personal opinion. Heaven forbid we come to a society where this is not allowed - if that's at all possible. Nor was I referring to your personal life cos it is upto you and yours what you do in that, and like you say - no-one elses business, but that does not stop me having an opinion.

If I have an opinion concerning the way someone raises their kids then it is my opinion, and asked about it I will voice that opinion. Otherwise I will keep my mouth shut and just keep that opinion to myself.

It is not a case of judging a person per se - but judging the values they place upon something. I have opinions about politics which I rarely voice. They are my opinions and no-one has asked about them.

We are not robots or automatons. We exercise free will and free thinking. This allows us to form ou own opinions taking into account how things would apply to ourselves as in individuals.

Just because I believe it wrong for people to freelance when in a relationship does not mean that belief will affect them. But if you ask for someones opinion then be prepared to accept it as the way they see things and then draw your own conclusions from that. So - I believe it is wrong and immoral. Lots of people think otherwise. Those who think it is fine will continue to do it regardless of what I believe. Good luck to them.

Dragon

Originally posted by rubydazzler
What about a situation where, say, 95% of a relationship was perfect and there were children, family, business involved too?

Do you really think that for a measly 5% people should just give up on that relationship? If it was dancing, painting, amdram, fishing, football, or a church choir or whatever interest that was the missing 5% - people could go and do their own thing with other companions and no-one would turn a hair.

But if it happens to be sex that's the missing 5% - everyone wants to put in their twopenn'orth and start pontificating. IMO, what people do in their private life to make their lives complete is nothing to do with anyone else.

It's just not fair to expect one person to be all in all for anyone else for their whole lives through - it's not possible for most of us. People change over the years in different ways, why should they divorce when they're perfectly happy together just because some other people they don't even know have rigid sexual mores and want to do a bit of moralising about it.

I agree with your point, and I think people should do whatever they want, but most people would consider sex to be more than 5% of a relationship... or at least an extremely important 5%... If two people spent all their time together, got on really well, had all the same interest, even had physical contact (hugging and kissing kinda way) did everything together execpt have sex, we'd say they were 'just friends'. For most people, it is sex that defines a relationship... Rightly or wrongly.

Originally posted by Snook
For most people, it is sex that defines a relationship... Rightly or wrongly.
Now perhaps that's why so many relationships hit the fan? ;)

Originally posted by Strix
Now perhaps that's why so many relationships hit the fan? ;)

Probably... or at least the fact that our culture defines a relationship as sex, basically. So most people choose their partner on the basis of sexual attraction and lust, not love and compatibility.

And Dragon....

I didn't ask for you opinion, but I got this stream of blurb designed to be nothing but offensive:

Originally posted by Dragon
Well if it wasn't said then it doesn't count uh?

You never said tyo your partner - I have only got eyes for you, or you are the only person I will ever love, or any of the billion variants? So basically you was lying? Good thing to build a relationship on?

But seriously - you have to think there is something seriously wrong with a relationship if one or both of the people involved are just freelancing whenever they get the offer? Why bother with the relationship? You have a partner jsut for security or something? There is no security in it cos eventually one of you is going to meet someone who means a little more, perhaps.

Sorry - it is wrong IMO.

It is not the opinion that homosexuality is a problem that is the problem - it is what follows after having that opinion that is wrong. It is my opinion that homosexuality is not, perhaps, normal - but if blokes want to go that way that is there business. My personal opinion has not affected them.


Dragon
I shall ignore your emotional outbusts henceforth ;)

Originally posted by Snook
Probably... or at least the fact that our culture defines a relationship as sex, bascially. So most people choose their partner on the basis of sexual attraction and lust, not love.
You can understand why some cultures here aren't in a hurry to drop the arranged marriage as a preferred method of finding a suitor....

Originally posted by Strix
You can understand why some cultures here aren't in a hurry to drop the arranged marriage as a preferred method of finding a suitor....

Certainly, I would think that an arranged marriage has just as much chance of working as one based on physical attraction. More so if the families have done their homework.

I can't see how lib couples can ever work out in the long term.

People change and people get attached whether tey like it or not. It is nie on impossible to get two people in a relationship whoes wants and needs stay exactly the same during that relationship.

No problems there Strix. Call them emotional outbursts if you like - but I was repsonding to the topic of the thread and not to you personally. You choise to give your opinion and I replied to that - thus continuing the conversation. This is how you find the pros and cons of any given situation.

My responses were not intended to be offensice but were merely responses based upon the fact that you slmost stated as fact that people should not be allowed their own opinions, and then brought in homosexuality for some reason.

Strix - my use of the word 'you' was not intended to imply 'you personally' but the 'royal you', as in if you people in general.

Responses are posted concerning the topic of the thread and a discussion concerning peoples opinions. If anyone wants to take the comments personally then that is upto them, but it is not intended to single out anyone inparticular.

But as you will.

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
... So basically you was lying?....

Dragon

I think you misunderstood part of my point Snook ... what I was trying to get over was that if part of the sexual part of your relationship wasn't satisfying ( :P ) and you both agreed to go elsewhere to fill the gap ... what business is it of anyone elses.

I agree that a fulfilling sex life is essential for most people, but that it isn't worth giving up the other 95% just because you weren't happy with 5% of it ... obviously the percentage might vary from person to person.

Yes strix - I said you quite a few times. Again I refer to my previous post in the use of the word you not meaning You personally, but the population in general.

There is not only strix who may have said these things and possibly not been telling the truth, but anyone who has said it and then changed their mind - so to speak.

So for anyone reading - my posts are not aimed at Strix, nor at his personal relationships or anything such - just for the record.

Jeze! What word can I use instead of you to refer to people in general?

Dragon

Originally posted by rubydazzler
I think you misunderstood part of my point Snook ... what I was trying to get over was that if part of the sexual part of your relationship wasn't satisfying ( :P ) and you both agreed to go elsewhere to fill the gap ... what business is it of anyone elses.

I agree that a fulfilling sex life is essential for most people, but that it isn't worth giving up the other 95% just because you weren't happy with 5% of it ... obviously the percentage might vary from person to person.

I did get your point, and I agree, it is nobody elses business. I was just making the point (that you have here too) that the 5% is very variable, and I think most people consider it more important than that.

I can understand that for you if the rest of the relationship is 95%, then it isn't worth giving up on... everyone is different was my point, I guess.

Originally posted by Dragon
Jeze! What word can I use instead of you to refer to people in general?Dragon

One? you all?, everyone? the lot of you? you lot? us lot? we people?

btw, I know she comes over like it sometimes, but Strix isn't a male - haven't you looked at her white leather wedding dress and those boots!! :P

Snook, i was speaking hypothetically ... I'm a cut and run type of person myself, if things aren't perfect - which is probably why I'm single! Although after 40 years of trying to find Mr Right I have to concede that he probably doesn't exist ... (sobs) But I still maintain that 5% of 100% of a sex life is a very small part of a total relationship.

Oh well - here you go. I used the term his by natural mistake due to the fact that I write about both genders in books and default to referring to the masculine. In other words rather than having to type he/she throughout a book I will default to he. It is perhaps wrong and I appologise for the slip.

Just another of those bad habits. But I cannot bring myself to continually refer to you people or you all, so I just type 'you'.

Again - when writing a piece I tend to refer to the reading public in general as you, eg - "You may have noticed..." I am not talking to one individual inparticular.

The point remains, however - you commit to a relationship or you don't. There is another post in here that points out that 5% image.

And you honestly think there is no risk of that 5% increasing?

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
There is another post in here that points out that 5% image.
And you honestly think there is no risk of that 5% increasing?
Dragon

It could very well increase, if the partners who aren't catering to the want/need continue not to. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here and I've already conceded that the % may vary with the participants.

What I was trying to say was that if a relationship is good generally, say 95% - and that the part giving cause for concern was the sexual part - would it be worth sacrificing the whole relationship in the hope of finding someone who could provide what's missing ... given that they may not be able to provide the other 95%. Or would it be better for the people concerned (with each other's consent) to seek to provide the missing percentage whatever that may be - outside the relationship with another consenting adult.

I'm hoping you can read between the lines, given that this is a family forum and i dont want to be too explicit about it.

(ruby wishing she'd never joined in this thread now ... )

Hi - my friend started this some years ago. Went OK for a while then her husband met someone he wanted to spend his life with. He left her and is now happily married to the other person.

I think people in an 'open marriage' is taking a great risk - at some point one of them will find someone else they want to be with and the other party will get hurt.

Perhaps your friend is only staying with her partner for financial reasons. Can she afford to start again? I am sure many people are trapped because financially they cannot move on!

I have to disagree with you Ruby. If there is only 5% or whatever, then you try to work through that with your chosen partner, or you simply put up with it being a minor niggle. I would ceratinly not risk my entire relationship by going outside it for sex, for instance.

If you cannot stick by your partner, then in my opinion there is something wrong not only with your relationship, but also with you as a person. 5% is not such a lot to have to put up with is it?

And I know many many couples who have stayed together through thick and thin being loyal to each other. Those open relationships - I personally do not know of a single one that has stood the test of time.

Dragon

I think when you are married and live as a married couple then a relationship with someone else is wrong! If you are in a unhappy marriage and feel the need to stray, then the kindest thing to do is be honest with your partner and end the marriage.
I have some friends who stray, and I think it is unfair on their partners, and their children. And yes I have told them I think it's wrong. I'm still friends with them but do not go out with them when they are with the other person.


We can all have an opinion it is our given right, other people don't have to like our opinion, but that is life, if we all agree and all do the same then we lose our identity.