Interesting article in today's News of the World by Rob Sheperd.

In it he refers to United's relegation in '94 from the Premier League and Vinnie Jone's thoughts on it.

His view (Vinnies) that there was indeed something underhand about the events of that day which resulted in court cases against certain players amidst allegations of bribery and match fixing (Everton v Wimbledon) is not the first I've seen by people in the know. Of course that season also saw Spurs escape a points deduction for (I think from memory) illegal payments to players.

Add this to the relegation of 2007 and the similar underhand dealings of another club and it's clear that United have suffered misfortune more than any other club at the hands of corruption and cheating.

I wonder what the long term implications for United have been as a result, and also wonder what could have been.

Here's the article by Rob Sheperd:

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IT looks like Vinnie Jones could win Celebrity Big Brother.

The world really has turned upside down.


Is this really the same Vincent Jones who first made a name for himself as the snarling 'Public Enemy No 1' footballer?


The man whose idea of a one-two was kicking an opponent in the balls then whacking the ball upfield, screaming: "Get on the end of that."


Yet, off the pitch, Jones was the cuddly-bear sort of guy that is being seen on camera and winning public hearts.


As a professional footballer, there was a raw honesty about Vinnie.


During his second stint as a Wimbledon player, The Jones Man invited me up to the boardroom after a midweek game for a light ale and a cigar.


After a while "Jonah" felt it was time to play out a part from The Deer Hunter. You know, the Russian roulette scene.


Looking back he was always a drama queen at heart.


With two fingers pressed against my head, Jones demanded: "Innocent or guilty."


"Who?" I said.

"You know who... "


I realised he was referring to that last game of that season when having taken a two-goal lead at Goodison, Wimbledon lost 3-2 and so Everton averted relegation and some of the Dons came under suspicion.


"Guilty," I said.


After a dramatic pause, Jones pulled his fingers away and said: "Spot on, son" then ordered another round.


Jones was always a born actor more than a footballer.


Actually Vinnie's problem as a player wasn't that he was really violent or even that bad. His feet weren't quick enough.


Back then, Wimbledon's tactic was The Long Ball Game. It was ugly but it still had its plus point.


So it is disturbing to hear FA gurus Trevor Brooking and Stuart Pearce suggest the long ball should be left out of the coaching manual.


Wrong. A long pass can still be the most effective defence-breaker in the game.


For me, one of the best goals this season came from Arsenal when a 70-yard diagonal pass from left- back Armand Traore cut open the Aston Villa defence, found Theo Walcott who rolled the ball into the path of Cesc Fabregas to finish.


Four touches, one goal, sublime.


The long pass doesn't have to be a beast. Just like Jones, it can even win beauty contests.

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Perhaps the first instance of United being on the receiving end of such corruption fuelled Kevin McCabe's desire to pursue the Tevez case as far as humanly possible, and resulted in his vindication of doing just so.

Perhaps next time our neighbours from across the city and others, want to have a dig about us "suing everybody and anybody" they might wonder why we do what we do and if they'd suffered similar injustices they would do any different.



http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/696173/IT-looks-like-Vinnie-Jones-could-win-Celebrity-Big-Brother.html

But we do sue everyone, everybody knows that

We've sued eeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Shammers and eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr nope can't think of anyone else
So we've sued 1 and case founded and that means we have a 100% case proven that we were wronged against
If the Prem league had done their job right in the first place and docked the shammers points then nothing would have happened in court All football teams no matter what league right from the Prem to the Sunday teams play for points not money

Wow! Even more of your boring conspiracy theories ......... sigh .... :loopy: .....




Up The Hammers - FTB

:cool:

Wow! Even more of your boring conspiracy theories ......... sigh .... :loopy: .....




Up The Hammers - FTB

:cool:

Not really a conspiracy but more bad luck.

Everton where like the shammers they had “angels” looking after them but don’t go digging it all up again its history now.

i blame tevez :|

i blame tevez :|

I blame this bloke;-




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Bruce_Grobbelaar.gif

Match-fixing allegations

In November 1994, Grobbelaar was accused by the British tabloid newspaper The Sun of match fixing during his time at Liverpool to benefit a betting syndicate, after being caught on videotape discussing match-fixing. He was charged with conspiracy to corrupt, along with the Wimbledon goalkeeper Hans Segers and Aston Villa striker John Fashanu, and a Malaysian businessman, Heng Suan Lim

united also got ripped off about 6 years ago when we finished 3rd to leicester when they went into administration and never got deducted any points which would have meant us going up in second, leicester are they only team to go into administration and not get deducted points,

united also got ripped off about 6 years ago when we finished 3rd to leicester when they went into administration and never got deducted any points which would have meant us going up in second, leicester are they only team to go into administration and not get deducted points,

The statutory penalty for administration is 10 points, I believe we finished the season 12 points behind Leicester.....

Edit: http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10418~20030504,00.html yes 12 points behind, so wouldn't have made any difference.

The statutory penalty for administration is 10 points, I believe we finished the season 12 points behind Leicester.....

Edit: http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10418~20030504,00.html yes 12 points behind, so wouldn't have made any difference.

But they were cheating gits they should have been given an extra 20 points deduction just for being lester:hihi::hihi:

But they were cheating gits they should have been given an extra 20 points deduction just for being lester:hihi::hihi:

Ah I see, that had bypassed me. Yes I concur ;)

In some ways that relegation hurt more than the Tevez one, I think because up until that last minute by Mark Stein I don't think we'd been in the bottom three.

Also I remember thinking at the time how unimportant it was for him personally to score it as it had little effect on their league position (although they were due to appear in the FA Cup final) but what a massive and profound effect it had on us as a club and us the fans.

I really do wonder what the long term implications that day had on us and what we might have become, and similarly the more recent Tevez relegation.

We may well have gone onto relegation the following seasons but then again we may have gone onto becoming an established Premiership club capable of winning the odd cup and European experiences.

... but then again we may have gone onto becoming an established Premiership club capable of winning the odd cup and European experiences.

:nod:

Course ya would .... :hihi:

But they were cheating gits they should have been given an extra 20 points deduction just for being lester:hihi::hihi:

I'd keep that quiet. We signed Jack Lester once ...

Wow! Even more of your boring conspiracy theories ......... sigh .... :loopy: .....

Up The Hammers - FTB

:cool:

Not really Arnold. There was an inquiry, and it wasn't instigated by United. To be honest, I always wondered about how the ref was fooled by Anders Limpar's dive for the pen though ..... :(

In some ways that relegation hurt more than the Tevez one, I think because up until that last minute by Mark Stein I don't think we'd been in the bottom three.

Also I remember thinking at the time how unimportant it was for him personally to score it as it had little effect on their league position (although they were due to appear in the FA Cup final) but what a massive and profound effect it had on us as a club and us the fans.

I really do wonder what the long term implications that day had on us and what we might have become, and similarly the more recent Tevez relegation.

We may well have gone onto relegation the following seasons but then again we may have gone onto becoming an established Premiership club capable of winning the odd cup and European experiences.

I was on the upper tier that day (it was 'Blades Arab' day, for some reason), and with about ten minutes to go when we were still 2-1 up, we'd worked out that we were in 14th, above Manchester City.

We missed out on the massive riches which suddenly became bestowed on Premier League sides, but in hindsight, I look at the plight of other clubs, two of our near neighbours in particular, and wonder if relegation might have saved us from oblivion.

We had to redevelop the ground, involving knocking down one side, and we had a chairman who was becoming increasingly spiteful. We had gone from spiv to spiv to spiv, and looking back, the idea of letting any of them near the riches which may have come our way could have left us in a seriously precarious position years before now.

If the supposed implosion does start to happen (not that I think it will), then maybe the 1993/4 season could, with the benefit of hindsight, be called 'The Glorious Relegation'.

:nod:

Course ya would .... :hihi:

Why not? Smaller clubs have managed it in the past. Sheffield Wednesday spring to mind for starters :cool:

I was on the upper tier that day (it was 'Blades Arab' day, for some reason), and with about ten minutes to go when we were still 2-1 up, we'd worked out that we were in 14th, above Manchester City.

We missed out on the massive riches which suddenly became bestowed on Premier League sides, but in hindsight, I look at the plight of other clubs, two of our near neighbours in particular, and wonder if relegation might have saved us from oblivion.

We had to redevelop the ground, involving knocking down one side, and we had a chairman who was becoming increasingly spiteful. We had gone from spiv to spiv to spiv, and looking back, the idea of letting any of them near the riches which may have come our way could have left us in a seriously precarious position years before now.

If the supposed implosion does start to happen (not that I think it will), then maybe the 1993/4 season could, with the benefit of hindsight, be called 'The Glorious Relegation'.

Intersting view on it and one I'd not considered before.

I remember that day so clearly. I was cleaning the fish tank at home and listening on the radio. When I started I never seriously thought we would be relegated. The results that day were freakish and we know all about Everton v Wimbledon don't we?

I have never felt so gutted about a result before or since, including the semi finals and the Tevez relegation.

Why not? Smaller clubs have managed it in the past. Sheffield Wednesday spring to mind for starters :cool:

Disregaring the bait, at least SWFC have played in Europe .... and we've won a European trophy .... Cup Winners' Cup 1965 ..... and the InterToto :rolleyes: ..... and, of course, the WC :D

Disregaring the bait, at least SWFC have played in Europe .... and we've won a European trophy .... Cup Winners' Cup 1965 ..... and the InterToto :rolleyes: ..... and, of course, the WC :D

fed up, of hearing about west sham won the world cup its bollxcks. as it a full team of west sham players-no it wasnt end of

Intersting view on it and one I'd not considered before.

I remember that day so clearly. I was cleaning the fish tank at home and listening on the radio. When I started I never seriously thought we would be relegated. The results that day were freakish and we know all about Everton v Wimbledon don't we?

I have never felt so gutted about a result before or since, including the semi finals and the Tevez relegation.

u mean the one where u didnt get enough points to stay up?
there were a few freakish results that day aswell had quite a few comparisons to ur other prem relegation

I have never felt so gutted about a result before or since, including the semi finals and the Tevez relegation.


I remember going to the Walsall game (1981?) ... that was an 'interesting' day ... bus across town was all cheerful til someone's radio announced you'd gone down .... silence & some tears .... at F-T the Bramall Lane announcer had said some other side had lost and that you were safe .... prob cos hundreds had mounted the fencing and were attacking the Walsall players on the pitch ... :rolleyes:

Disregaring the bait, at least SWFC have played in Europe .... and we've won a European trophy .... Cup Winners' Cup 1965 ..... and the InterToto :rolleyes: ..... and, of course, the WC :D

Exactly, so what your saying is we agree on the point I made then? :confused:

fed up, of hearing about west sham won the world cup its bollxcks. as it a full team of west sham players-no it wasnt end of

:huh: Translation?


BTW Hurst (3), Peters (1), Bobby (Capt.) & 8 other guys .... :P

Exactly, so what your saying is we agree on the point I made then? :confused:

Depends on WHO's definition of a what constitutes a 'smaller' club ....

On (current) crowds? (past) history? whatever .... another old chestnut that no-one can definitively answer ...