Undoubtedly Sheffield is the major city in the area. One of the reasons as to why it has fallen behind the likes of Leeds and Manchester is said to be due to a lack of support from neighbouring towns, and the reason for this is down to respected industries in the 80s and 90s were pretty much decimated.
2005 and there’s an economic resurgence in South Yorkshire and North Derbyshire. Town centres plan to spend millions of pounds on face lifts etc. Only now, however, Sheffield is not getting all of its own way and not automatically seen as the place to locate or invest in.
Putting personal issues aside, who do you see as the major threat to Sheffield in the region? In other words whom do you feel is the regions second town?

Doncaster is coming up on the rails. Watch out Sheffield.

Well its certainly not Rovrum.

Unless charity shops are going to be a major attraction for investors!!

Originally posted by Tony
Doncaster is coming up on the rails. Watch out Sheffield.

Very true.

Shame its full of pikeys, lol! :P

Lived in Doncaster, then Rotherham before moving to Sheff. No comparison between Donny & Rotherham. Doncaster has a thriving town centre and a popular market. Also has excellent rail links to other major cities. Rotherham - no decent shops in town centre, limited market, although Parkgate Retail park has a lot of well known stores - with free parking. People mainly shop there or at M/hall so the town only attracts people who like pound shops. Can't comment about Chesterfield, but for South Yorks, Doncaster definitely second town - however don't think its a threat to Sheffield.
I used to visit Altrincham regularly, which is to Manchester what Rotherham could be to Sheffield. It has its own busy shopping centre with the added bonus of a tram link to Manchester and isn't a million miles from the Trafford centre. Lived in Rotherham 12 yrs - but got sick of trying to get to work in Sheffield with ever decreasing public transport!

I love Chesterfield Market, it has a character that can not be described.

Having only been to doncater once i havent got a great idea of what its like but on the impression i got on how it looks i think its look 10X better than rotheram. Ive lived in rotheram on and off for about 2 years and i really dont like it, and cant wait to move. As for chesterfield id agree it does have loads of charecter but even tho its as close as it is i dont consider it a regional town cos of it not being in yorkshire, i dont quite know how regional is defined ? So my answer would have to be doncaster :-)

Agree with most that Doncaster is the second in line and almost read for city status./ It has an improving centre, famous markets and is on the main East/West & North/South rail line. Great racecourse too

It has to be Doncaster, although I like them all. I think Rotherham is a good place, good people, great out of town facilities and future projects (retail world, YES project and the Manvers entertainment site). Barnsley is just Barnsley....the plodderer, good shopping, good people and a great place for a laugh, night out and a great pint. Chesterfield....for god's sake don't alter your character......good place to shop, great place to chill, and a good alternative to the stresses (hussle and bussle) of Sheffield. Doncaster is in the right place. After decades of neglect and corrupt leaders, it's at last realising its true potential. I think it's fair to say that Donny is the fastest growing place in South Yorks , and although it will never overtake Sheffield as number one, it will serve Sheffield and South Yorkshire well and get the region back where it should be, competing against West Yorkshire and Manchester.

I think the future is bright for all the towns.

Doncaster. We opened a bar there over a year ago, and it didn't work out too great - had we waited 20 months and were opening this summer, we'd have probably made it through the rough patch and it'd still be in business in 12 months time.

Shucks eh.

Originally posted by mr craig
Very true.

Shame its full of pikeys, lol! :P

Barnsley's full of chavs that talk funny though.

Originally posted by Hook
Doncaster. We opened a bar there over a year ago, and it didn't work out too great - had we waited 20 months and were opening this summer, we'd have probably made it through the rough patch and it'd still be in business in 12 months time.

Shucks eh.

Especially with Education City (and the few thousand students) due to open in 2006

It's funny you should say that though. I have heard people say similar things about Doncaster. They have been struggling for ages and given up the business only to find the area they left is going through hundred of thousands of pounds worth of refubishments. I think, as things stand now, unless I was a multi-national, I would not risk opening a business in Doncaster until the dust has settled (but then it could be too late). I think there is far too much going on in Doncaster at the moment. Everything is changing. There are plans that the entire area near the Southern Bus Station (bus station, council house, college, swimming baths, county court etc) is coming down and being replaced by a civic and cultural quarter. (shops, council offices and chambers, new library, theatre (performance venue) etc). This is due to start at the back end of next year. Who's going to say then, that area is not then going to be the focal point.
I think at the moment Donny may well be best left alone for anyone wanting to open a bar or shop there.

Originally posted by svetlenka
I love Chesterfield Market, it has a character that can not be described.

Tacky, bit scruby, country bumkin - wish we were a nice town, kinda character... see, wasn't that hard!

Originally posted by MrDearne
Especially with Education City (and the few thousand students) due to open in 2006

It's funny you should say that though. I have heard people say similar things about Doncaster. They have been struggling for ages and given up the business only to find the area they left is going through hundred of thousands of pounds worth of refubishments. I think, as things stand now, unless I was a multi-national, I would not risk opening a business in Doncaster until the dust has settled (but then it could be too late). I think there is far too much going on in Doncaster at the moment. Everything is changing. There are plans that the entire area near the Southern Bus Station (bus station, council house, college, swimming baths, county court etc) is coming down and being replaced by a civic and cultural quarter. (shops, council offices and chambers, new library, theatre (performance venue) etc). This is due to start at the back end of next year. Who's going to say then, that area is not then going to be the focal point.
I think at the moment Donny may well be best left alone for anyone wanting to open a bar or shop there.

I'd have to agree there. We ended up having to make a decision, were we to allow the profits from the other bars to fund a bar that wasn't making money, and didn't have much prospect of making money any time soon, or do we cut our losses and maybe try again in a few years time.

It wasn't busy and the idea wasn't catching on, the research beforehand showed the market was ready for it, but as is so often the case, the research didn't tie in with real life. We had the usual opening furore, followed by 'great food, great drinks, bit pricey'. We couldn't reduce the prices because of the overheads, cost of staff etc.

Our other 3 outlets are incredibly popular and make money, Doncaster just wasn't ready. Maybe in a few years once the market's ready to support it it'll be another chance, if the owners are willing to risk it again. I've moved on now and no longer work for them, but I spent time in Donny when we opened, occasionally, and then had the unfortunate task of dismantling the bar once we closed.

But yeah, Donny is definately a town on the up.

doncaster is becoming a lot more popular

totally agree doncaster is on its way up barnsley a dump rotherham is a total disgrace and sheffield its a building site
pond street where odeon is needs pulling down reminds me of small brook queensway in brum but seriosley sheffield will be good its the demographics that make it bad its nearly a mel and half from one end to the other the problems are the markets area and unfortunatley the moor it needs a major lifft the retail quarter will help

Doncaster is the biggest town of the 4, in terms of population and geographical spread, AFAIK. I don't think it will be long before it achieves city status either, and it's quite suprising that it hasn't already. If Sheffield maintains it's backward thinking council, I hate to say it but I think Doncaster will eventually become the capital of South Yorkshire.

Originally posted by t020
Doncaster is the biggest town of the 4, in terms of population and geographical spread, AFAIK. I don't think it will be long before it achieves city status either, and it's quite suprising that it hasn't already. If Sheffield maintains it's backward thinking council, I hate to say it but I think Doncaster will eventually become the capital of South Yorkshire.

It can't - Sheffield is a thriving city.


I though geographically, it was:

Largest - smallest:

Sheffield - nice city
Doncaster - have never visited it
Rotherham - good-quality city; great for cheaper housing for Sheffield workers.
Barnsley - Hmm....

:)

I don't think Doncaster will ever catch Sheffield up and the days of opposition are over...if anything I think closer ties will be forged.
It's interesting to see the battle for 3rd place. My gut feeling says that Rotherham will eventually evolve as the 3rd town due to its proximity (Sheffield - Doncaster) corridor.

Sheffield a building site! Have you been to Doncaster recently?

Originally posted by amhudson119
It can't - Sheffield is a thriving city.


I though geographically, it was:

Largest - smallest:

Sheffield - nice city
Doncaster - have never visited it
Rotherham - good-quality city; great for cheaper housing for Sheffield workers.
Barnsley - Hmm....

:)

The order is right yes, I meant Doncaster was (AFAIK) the largest TOWN. Rotherham is also a town though, and I wouldn't call it "good quality" by any stretch of the imagination!

The thing about city status (I learned this on Friday during the Town Hall tour) is that it has nothing to do with the size of the city, if it has a cathedral etc. etc. it's granted to the city by the Queen, you don't automatically become a city once you meet certain criteria.

Results from the top 100 companies and relating to towns (in terms of annual turnover) as follows: 2004-05

1. Sheffield- £4.9 billion company turnover (36 companies in the regions top 100)
2. Doncaster- £3.1 billion (24)
3. Chesterfield- £1.5 billion (14)
4. Barnsley- £707 million (10)
5. Rotherham- £680 million (11)
6. Others- £505 million (5)

No surprise Sheffield led the way but the gap (12%) over Doncaster is drastically reduced from three years ago when over well over half the companies were located in Sheffield.
I am impressed by Chesterfield by the way.

Originally posted by MrDearne
Results from the top 100 companies and relating to towns (in terms of annual turnover) as follows: 2004-05

1. Sheffield- £4.9 billion company turnover (36 companies in the regions top 100)
2. Doncaster- £3.1 billion (24)
3. Chesterfield- £1.5 billion (14)
4. Barnsley- £707 million (10)
5. Rotherham- £680 million (11)
6. Others- £505 million (5)

No surprise Sheffield led the way but the gap (12%) over Doncaster is drastically reduced from three years ago when over well over half the companies were located in Sheffield.
I am impressed by Chesterfield by the way.

I think this illustrates what I was saying about Doncaster being on the up and possibly over taking Sheffield one day.

I personally don't think Doncaster will ever overtake Sheffield. However, it will serve Sheffield extremely well as an equal partner, and Doncaster's growth will certainly benefit Sheffield.
I think a lot of logistic companies will move to Doncaster boosting their economy no end...providing jobs etc. The offices, marketing etc of these companies, I think will locate in Sheffield. Down the line Sheffield will become the main finance and marketing centre of a booming South Yorkshire........here's hoping

me think's sheffield,doncaster,rotherham,barnsley

don't care about chesterfield as it is not in south yorkshire

sheffield nice city its a dump ok some of its in the middle of building the shopping is poor nottingham is fantastic for shopping and its a smaller city .Sheffield is not the capital in south yorks the police are based in barnsley and other organisations are based out of sheffield even the transport is not based in sheffield. Something drastically is neede like kick the the council out lest have a clean sweep other labour councils handle thier places far better sheffield is not promoted enough when you go to leeds and nottingham you fell like the city is independent from the county where as sheffield is always seems to be ivolved in south yorkshire even the star is produced in shefield but its all over south yorkshire first is the same .

it's got to be rotherham has it's road's are better lol:hihi:

must agree felt like i was on the big dipper on the bus on carlisle street the roads are shocking

Originally posted by t020
The order is right yes, I meant Doncaster was (AFAIK) the largest TOWN. Rotherham is also a town though, and I wouldn't call it "good quality" by any stretch of the imagination!

Maybe "mediocre" would be better..?

:D

I don't think any of the towns mentioned (please notice, they are towns, not cities) are rivals to Sheffield now, or ever will be.

But you know, Doncaster is fast improving. New minister, new roads and.....new airport.

Anyone know what happened to the idea of making Barnsley into a Tuscan town? Has the idea been dropped?

Originally posted by amhudson119
Maybe "mediocre" would be better..?

:D

No, I think "dump" would be a lot more apt. :D

Originally posted by redrobbo
I don't think any of the towns mentioned (please notice, they are towns, not cities) are rivals to Sheffield now, or ever will be.

But you know, Doncaster is fast improving. New minister, new roads and.....new airport.


By "rival" (which I implied) I meant purely in terms of population. Sheffield has a falling population despite growing numbers of students. Doncaster however is growing and the more businesses it attracts there (through having better rail links, a large airport, less backward council (Ikea?), etc) the more jobs it will create and the more people will move there.

it's got to be doncaster

Originally posted by FriarTuck
Undoubtedly Sheffield is the major city in the area. One of the reasons as to why it has fallen behind the likes of Leeds and Manchester is said to be due to a lack of support from neighbouring towns, and the reason for this is down to respected industries in the 80s and 90s were pretty much decimated.
2005 and there’s an economic resurgence in South Yorkshire and North Derbyshire. Town centres plan to spend millions of pounds on face lifts etc. Only now, however, Sheffield is not getting all of its own way and not automatically seen as the place to locate or invest in.
Putting personal issues aside, who do you see as the major threat to Sheffield in the region? In other words whom do you feel is the regions second town?

doncaster is bigger than any cities and is the biggest town in the uk it's road's are all mostly dual carridgeways it spread out a lot more as a bigger land area than sheffield and rotherham is just a commuter town to travel between sheff and donny.

Originally posted by 007_
doncaster is bigger than any cities and is the biggest town in the uk it's road's are all mostly dual carridgeways it spread out a lot more as a bigger land area than sheffield and rotherham is just a commuter town to travel between sheff and donny.

does anyone else agree with me?

Originally posted by 007_
does anyone else agree with me?

If you meant Doncaster is bigger than Many cities (and not Any cities) then yes.

Originally posted by 007_
does anyone else agree with me?

Yes, Doncaster is bigger that some cities and is strategically better located than many. I wouldn’t, however, regard Rotherham as being just a commuter town. It will certainly benefit from the Sheffield – Doncaster corridor, but don’t forget its urban area is comparable to Doncaster’s. It’s also home to the countries 4th largest Retail Park and one of the counties most popular attractions (Magna). Then of course penned in are the £300 million YES project at Rother-Valley Country Park, the £150 million leisure development at Manvers, and the £2 billion 25 year town centre regeneration. Make no bones about it Rotherham is not standing still.
I think sometimes we are too close to see the wider picture. Some are disappointed with Sheffield’s development but it has hardly stagnated over the past 3 years has it? When these multi-storey huge buildings are built, Sheffield will ooze confidence once again. The main towns of South Yorkshire and Chesterfield are on their way up…..we are going to see a renaissance just like West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester saw in the 1990s….it’s our turn.

Originally posted by MrDearne
Make no bones about it Rotherham is not standing still.

There's also the waverley project - a 25 year plan of building a new 'town' between Sheffield and Rotherham. Boeing already have a research facillity there.

doncaster is the 1st

Rotherham is the 2nd

Barnsley is the 3rd

chesterfield don't realy care as it is not in south yorkshire

Originally posted by MrDearne
Yes, Doncaster is bigger that some cities and is strategically better located than many. I wouldn’t, however, regard Rotherham as being just a commuter town. It will certainly benefit from the Sheffield – Doncaster corridor, but don’t forget its urban area is comparable to Doncaster’s. It’s also home to the countries 4th largest Retail Park and one of the counties most popular attractions (Magna). Then of course penned in are the £300 million YES project at Rother-Valley Country Park, the £150 million leisure development at Manvers, and the £2 billion 25 year town centre regeneration. Make no bones about it Rotherham is not standing still.
I think sometimes we are too close to see the wider picture. Some are disappointed with Sheffield’s development but it has hardly stagnated over the past 3 years has it? When these multi-storey huge buildings are built, Sheffield will ooze confidence once again. The main towns of South Yorkshire and Chesterfield are on their way up…..we are going to see a renaissance just like West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester saw in the 1990s….it’s our turn.

i agree with you fully on this

Originally posted by MrDearne
we are going to see a renaissance just like West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester saw in the 1990s….it’s our turn.


Meanwhile, back in reality...... ;)

PS. sy05 - don't make pointless multiple posts like that when one post would suffice or you will quickly get yourself into trouble with the moderators. Good boy/girl.

Originally posted by sy05
chesterfield don't realy care as it is not in south yorkshire

Not all of Sheffield is in South Yorkshire - observing a Sheffield A-Z (2003), it shows parts of S8 region belonging to North East Derbyshire's council.

The main towns of South Yorkshire and Chesterfield are on their way up…

That sounds as if you're suggesting that Chesterfield is a county, when in actual fact it's a town within Derbyshire's county borders.

Greater Manchester

IMO, Greater Manchester is one of these modern counties - really, Manchester is a city within Lancashire. Yorkshire being divided into three West/North/South (and East switching between being Humbserside and East Yorks.) is relatively new - you were in ridings many years back.

Originally posted by amhudson119
Not all of Sheffield is in South Yorkshire - observing a Sheffield A-Z (2003), it shows parts of S8 region belonging to North East Derbyshire's council.


Do not confuse postal codes with boundaries.

Sheffield postal codes extend throughout North-East Derbyshire District Council, and go as far south as Clay Cross and beyond to the villages of Shirland and Higham. Chesterfield also has a Sheffield postal code, as does Bolsover.

Quite a lot of Derbyshire doesn't have a Derby post-code. New Mills, for example, has a Stockport post-code. Long Eaton, the fourth largest town in Derbyshire, has a Nottingham post-code. Yet East Midlands International Airport, located in Castle Donington, Leicestershire, has a Derby post code.

i think that rotherham could be a major city in a few years because it's in the hub of everything betwenn chesterfield,sheffield,barnsley and doncaster so more busineses may wan't to move there to be in the centre of south yorkshire and it only takes 20 minutes to get to sheffield,25 mins to doncaster,30 mins to barnsley and about 40 mins to chesterfield.

Originally posted by redrobbo
Do not confuse postal codes with boundaries.

Sheffield postal codes extend throughout North-East Derbyshire District Council, and go as far south as Clay Cross and beyond to the villages of Shirland and Higham. Chesterfield also has a Sheffield postal code, as does Bolsover.

Quite a lot of Derbyshire doesn't have a Derby post-code. New Mills, for example, has a Stockport post-code. Long Eaton, the fourth largest town in Derbyshire, has a Nottingham post-code. Yet East Midlands International Airport, located in Castle Donington, Leicestershire, has a Derby post code.

well that's confusing isn't it?


i hate derbyshire there's nothing there but i mean look at the population roughly between chesterfield and rotherham,

chesterfield 85,000

rotherham 248,000

where would you rather have your business i would choose rotherham

I spent most of my 20s living in Rotherham. I lived there, partied there, worked there and it was my little universe for many years. The shopping centre was fine, the markets were good and even the rock scene was decent. What happened? The better shops closed. The road system was changed to force the traffic out of the centre of the town leaving more shops to die a death. The town centre planners allowed cheap and nasty shops to move in and now, look at the place! Parkgate is the new Rotherham, the town itself may have been revamped and rebuilt but what's the point if it has a reputation and even M&S has abandoned it! :rant:

I started to work in Sheffield and then fell in with the rock scene. It didn't take me long to realise that Sheffield has far more going for it in terms of opportunity, retail and investment and moved. To this day I still defend Rotherham, purely because of the memories of the good old days there, but it really upsets me to see the way it has gone. I always used to feel safe wandering around in the evening, now I wouldn't dream of it due to the number of chavs knocking around the town hanging out around the cheap shoe shops and mobile phone sites. :rant:

South Yorkshire received a huge European grant in the form of Objective One funding. I do feel that Doncaster have benefitted exceptionally from this, although the town needed it. Glad to see that Doncaster is on the map and should become a city, really. Can't comment on Barnsley apart from the fact that I'm disturbed at the thought of the wall that's supposed to be built around it. What happened to that? What a waste of money...spend it on improving the roads. No wonder I have to drive a 4x4 to get over the potholes. :rant:

Amen

Chesterfield isn't even in South Yorkshire. It's not even in the 'region'. It's saaarrrth.

Originally posted by 0000
well that's confusing isn't it?


i hate derbyshire there's nothing there but i mean look at the population roughly between chesterfield and rotherham,

chesterfield 85,000

rotherham 248,000

where would you rather have your business i would choose rotherham

That's just population. Now go and look how many out of town visitors each place has every year, and how much money the people there have to spend... You might change your mind on where you would choose for your business.

Originally posted by Snook
That's just population. Now go and look how many out of town visitors each place has every year, and how much money the people there have to spend... You might change your mind on where you would choose for your business.

Depends on whether your business relies on Joe public visiting your premises and if you have something to offer visitors to the town. Great if you have a retail outlet geared up to the tourist. Not so great if you want cheap premises to make doors.

Originally posted by 0000

1) i hate derbyshire there's nothing there...
2) where would you rather have your business..?

1) Only pretty countryside; a picturesque county...

2) What about the up-and-coming Doncaster?

Originally posted by MrDearne
Results from the top 100 companies and relating to towns (in terms of annual turnover) as follows: 2004-05

1. Sheffield- £4.9 billion company turnover (36 companies in the regions top 100)
2. Doncaster- £3.1 billion (24)
3. Chesterfield- £1.5 billion (14)
4. Barnsley- £707 million (10)
5. Rotherham- £680 million (11)
6. Others- £505 million (5)

No surprise Sheffield led the way but the gap (12%) over Doncaster is drastically reduced from three years ago when over well over half the companies were located in Sheffield.
I am impressed by Chesterfield by the way.
Just to show how far Sheffield and the rest have to go, Leeds businesses generate £13 billion turnover.

Originally posted by firecracker
Just to show how far Sheffield and the rest have to go, Leeds businesses generate £13 billion turnover.

Yes, but you (and everyone) have to be mindful of the fact that Leeds is the main city of Yorkshire - in fact it is the county town of Yorkshire - which technically doesn't exist. Therefore, it will have a considerably higher turnover than the (in comparison) piddly towns of South Yorkshire.

Originally posted by amhudson119
Yes, but you (and everyone) have to be mindful of the fact that Leeds is the main city of Yorkshire - in fact it is the county town of Yorkshire - which technically doesn't exist. Therefore, it will have a considerably higher turnover than the (in comparison) piddly towns of South Yorkshire.


The "piddly" CITY of Sheffield has a population of c510,000 compared with Leeds' c700,000, so not really a huge difference and certainly not as proportionally large as the business turnover generation gap.

Originally posted by firecracker
Just to show how far Sheffield and the rest have to go, Leeds businesses generate £13 billion turnover.

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Leeds is economically Yorkshire's number one. Bear in mind though, the figures I gave are selected from the 100 top companies in South Yorkshire and North Derbyshire region. Inclusive of turnover generated by ALL companies, Sheffield is worth around £8.5 billion, Doncaster approx £5 billion. Still way down on Leeds.

Originally posted by MrDearne
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Leeds is economically Yorkshire's number one. Bear in mind though, the figures I gave are selected from the 100 top companies in South Yorkshire and North Derbyshire region. Inclusive of turnover generated by ALL companies, Sheffield is worth around £8.5 billion, Doncaster approx £5 billion. Still way down on Leeds.
I've just seen figures for 2002. They show the GVAs per person for Barnsley, Rotherham and Doncaster at £10,239 (they were lumped together, but Doncasters GVA might be similar to Sheffields, meaning Rotherhams and Barnsleys GVA could be considerably lower than the £10,239 shown), Sheffield at £13,835 and Leeds £18,305. GVAs per year for Sheffield £7,094 million, Barnsley, Doncaster and Rotherham £7,744 million, and for Leeds £13,114 million.

Source: Economic statistics - Yorkshire and Humber (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_compendia/region_in_figures_winter04/Yorkshire_and_the_Humber.pdf)