Having been made redundant I am trying to get my grubby mitts on some of the huge pile of cash put aside to help us poor souls up-skill. I have had my next step meeting and have to fill in some forms and see what happens. Which would be the most useful, CCNA or MSCE or are there other certifications that have superseded either of those or that would be more useful? I know practical experience counts massively but with all my other support experience I am sure that incorporating either into my last job description would not be a problem.

Cheers

:)

In an ideal world both, but i think CCNA would be more use. The industry is flooded with Microsoft People, may also be worth getting some knowlegde of Oracle and other operating systems, Linux, Solaris etc.

In theory there is money available for 2 weeks full time or 8 weeks part time training within your current industry. To be honest I would rather get out of IT but until I know what I want to do instead I plan on making the most of the oportunity. The CCNA seemed the best option as with all my other skills it should make me quite employable, was not sure if other similar qualifications had come out since that would be better as not really looked. I can easily find jobs to justify it if I request Cisco, I know even less about Oracle and the likes as I am not coming from a software background. I saw a job for a Sun engineer so considered requesting that but I think it's a bit too specific.

I find cisco a bit specific to be honest, (please correct me if I'm wrong as I've never done a cisco course/exam) but for the amount of cisco kit I come across(if that's all they teach you about) and how straight forward it is to use I couldn't see the benefit. Everyone uses microsoft stuff unfortunately so I can see why there may be a benefit there.

mikeybaby72 is chatting to me on skype at the moment...

He is doing his CCNA...which he considers far better than microsoft...which is only tied to microsoft systems.

The CCNA is far more in depth and covers all aspects of networking....and equipment.

It's less client/server based....which you do learn in CCNA but there are other aspects of networking it covers too.

And on a more practical level (in terms of pints of beer :hihi:)...you can earn more with CCNA.

Cisco is also the number one company in this field. :D

CHeers Julando, is he doing it off his own back or attending a training centre?

I find cisco a bit specific to be honest, (please correct me if I'm wrong as I've never done a cisco course/exam) but for the amount of cisco kit I come across(if that's all they teach you about) and how straight forward it is to use I couldn't see the benefit. Everyone uses microsoft stuff unfortunately so I can see why there may be a benefit there.

Not everyone is using microsoft...that is what THEY want you to think...there are other alternatives....good, reliable, cheaper alternatives.

Linux servers - especially with MAC - are extremely popular....industry in general like to save money and microsoft is expensive.

There are less hassles with servers other than microsoft....no virus problems to start off with....cheaper, faster, more efficient.

It's learning - using Cisco equipment - but you cover all aspects thus you qualify intricately to work on ANY network not just microsoft.

CHeers Julando, is he doing it off his own back or attending a training centre?

Through Tritec....at Red Tape Studios....

and because he is also unwaged it costs £15....nothing more.

There are loads of courses....he is also doing ITPro...which covers CCNA (which he is actually doing as a stand alone)...plus IT Essentials (another Cisco course).....plus customer service, remote support etc.

The tutor Ray Hill can also find placements after the courses and connections with recruitment agencies and from there you can either train further or get working.

Am sending you in PM.....Mike's mob phone number.....he is a bit busy right now but can chat after 2pm. :D

Not everyone is using microsoft...that is what THEY want you to think...there are other alternatives....good, reliable, cheaper alternatives.

Linux servers - especially with MAC - are extremely popular....industry in general like to save money and microsoft is expensive.

There are less hassles with servers other than microsoft....no virus problems to start off with....cheaper, faster, more efficient.

It's learning - using Cisco equipment - but you cover all aspects thus you qualify intricately to work on ANY network not just microsoft.

hmm interesting - thanks for that.

Does mike work in IT? Just wondering if it's just my customer base or something as I'm yet to come across a non-microsoft set up.

Excellent, much appreciated. Rezound in leeds do two 5 day courses for the CCNA, I just lack the motivation to do it on my own which is why I am looking for one of the courses you have to attend. Shall pester mike later.
:)

Excellent, much appreciated. Rezound in leeds do two 5 day courses for the CCNA, I just lack the motivation to do it on my own which is why I am looking for one of the courses you have to attend. Shall pester mike later.
:)

These short courses....boot camp style....only teach you to pass the course. They do not teach you to do the job....for that you need weekly input with homework and practical hands on....and a good tutor.

The intensive courses are well expensive too....and there isn't the attention to both the students and the finer detail of the course.

Also some employers are not too interested in those who have done the intensive courses....they would rather employer someone who has done it in depth...at a slower pace....so that information is retained. :D

Have a chat also with Ray.

hmm interesting - thanks for that.

Does mike work in IT? Just wondering if it's just my customer base or something as I'm yet to come across a non-microsoft set up.

Any customer base using MAC are unlikely to use microsoft....more likely to use linux or some other operating system (Unix) for there server.

An example of this would by any graphic design company....graphic designers don't use anything other than MAC....any Audio Visual company will not use microsoft. Universities and some teaching establishment will have multiple operating systems on the actual machines but the server is likely to be Linux.

Microsoft maybe what you see on the screen but it may not be the "glue" that is holding the whole network together.

We sometimes see news reports of businesses being attacked by viral issues and you then read that their serves have been changed....companies don't want to run networks that can be attacked.

If you were to design and pay for a network would you want the fastest, virus free, less expensive option...or would you go for microsoft????

I don't think they are a good option for the people with no IT experience who get suckered in by the adverts saying they will earn 40k the minute they walk out the door. Those people tend to stand out a mile. I hope that for someone who has worked in IT for a long time it will be a valuable qualification to back up an already comprehensive CV.

That's the plan anyway!
:)

You comment on the CCNA short courses julado are spot on - I recently did one and the instructor openly admited that he was teaching us to pass the exam, not how to network.

OK, everyone on the course could do the stuff anyway - most of us were just there to get the certification, but even so.

For me it was a nice two week distraction from work, but I learnt nothing useful.

Personally I'm not even all that sure I'm going to bother to sit the exam - a lot of employers know that a CCNA cert on it's own doesn't mean a lot. Just means you know how to pass an exam. In my circumstances there is no benefit to me having that cert.

On the other hand, if I was interested in continuing on to CCNP, then you can only do that once you have done the CCNA.

One thing to point out though, is that the CCNA cert only lasts two years, then you have to sit it again.

It can all be a very expensive, time consuming process, which in my case I can not justify. Obviously other people have different circumstances.

MCSE is worth far more in terms of job prospects, unless you specifically want networking, then the CCNA is better, the MS equivelent would be MCSA

I work for a UK based IT consultancy firm. Although we have developers, programmers, web site designers, etc the companies main role is setting up, managing, upgrading and maintaining our clients networks and systems. Many of our customers have little or no IT staff and some use us as a 2nd/3rd line of support. If you're just starting out in the world of IT I’d personally suggest you start with a few Microsoft qualifications (ie: MCP, MCTS). I believe this would give you a better chance of landing a job. Once you've earned a few years experience, then look at moving into CCNA, Citrix, etc.

Don't get me wrong, with Citrix and Cisco qualifications you'll probably earn a higher salary than with a Microsoft qualification. However, out of the 70+ organisations we look after, I’d say over 90% of them are based on Microsoft/AD infrastructures.

Slintish is correct, the IT sector is flooded with Microsoft people, but that's because the industury is also dominated by MS!

I work for a UK based IT consultancy firm. Although we have developers, programmers, web site designers, etc the companies main role is setting up, managing, upgrading and maintaining our clients networks and systems. Many of our customers have little or no IT staff and some use us as a 2nd/3rd line of support. If you're just starting out in the world of IT I’d personally suggest you start with a few Microsoft qualifications (ie: MCP, MCTS). I believe this would give you a better chance of landing a job. Once you've earned a few years experience, then look at moving into CCNA, Citrix, etc.

Don't get me wrong, with Citrix and Cisco qualifications you'll probably earn a higher salary than with a Microsoft qualification. However, out of the 70+ organisations we look after, I’d say over 90% of them are based on Microsoft/AD infrastructures.

Slintish is correct, the IT sector is flooded with Microsoft people, but that's because the industury is also dominated by MS!

Horrible....isn't it :gag:

Relevant practical experience and certification plays a part in securing a job in this day and age. Certifications will get you an interview, but what wil set you apart is how your relevant experience and other traits - company culture, fit e.t.c.

If you are looking to get certified in MCSE or CCNA, you have to ask yourself what it is that interests you? In order to succeed in IT, one needs to have passion as there is always constant learning in the field. Without passion, any IT career path is meaningless. If you have IT/networking experience, then CCNA is a good fit. If you like to work in the Windows environment - configuring and administering microsoft servers (2003, 2008) then MCSE is a good fit.

If you have basic experience, then I'll recommend the CompTIA A+ Network+ course, which will teach you the basic networking skills.

Have a look at the Microsoft Learning Center for career path you are most interested in. There is tonnes of information on what you need to reach your goal.

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/start/start-career-overview.aspx

With regards to salary wise, have a look at IT Jobs Watch as they track various job profiles. Perform a search for CCNA and MCSE
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/

Hope this helps

Relevant practical experience and certification plays a part in securing a job in this day and age. Certifications will get you an interview, but what wil set you apart is how your relevant experience and other traits - company culture, fit e.t.c.

If you are looking to get certified in MCSE or CCNA, you have to ask yourself what it is that interests you? In order to succeed in IT, one needs to have passion as there is always constant learning in the field. Without passion, any IT career path is meaningless. If you have IT/networking experience, then CCNA is a good fit. If you like to work in the Windows environment - configuring and administering microsoft servers (2003, 2008) then MCSE is a good fit.

If you have basic experience, then I'll recommend the CompTIA A+ Network+ course, which will teach you the basic networking skills.

Have a look at the Microsoft Learning Center for career path you are most interested in. There is tonnes of information on what you need to reach your goal.

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/start/start-career-overview.aspx

With regards to salary wise, have a look at IT Jobs Watch as they track various job profiles. Perform a search for CCNA and MCSE
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/

Hope this helps

I notice your signatures.....get CCNA in 6 days....this is not what employers are looking for.

My partner mikeybaby72 is on the last bit of his CCNA....it is a year long course and finishes in April.

Yes, you may be able to pass it in 6 days but that hardly gives you the ongoing learning experience you need to take in all the complex information contained within the course.

And employers are guaranteed to offer a time served student employment over a fast track one. :)

I've always recommended going for the Network+ if you have no commercial experience of networking. The Network+ is vendor neutral whereas the CCNA is not, it's strictly Cisco products. And it's important to remember that not all businesses use Cisco kit. And no IT Manager in their right mind would let a new recruit with a CCNA loose on a live network if they don't have real world experience.

But going back, I think networking and MS certifications can compliment each other. Fact of the matter is that in smaller firms, network and system administration could be one of the same thing. Whereas in large organisations, these could be two different departments within IT. System admin taking care of all the server maintenance, AD accounts, backups etc. And network admin taking care of all the switches, routers, bridges, network connectivity, load balancing, QoS, traffic shaping etc.

... I recently did one and the instructor openly admited that he was teaching us to pass the exam, not how to network.

OK, everyone on the course could do the stuff anyway - most of us were just there to get the certification, but even so.


Yes, you are taught to pass the series of tests!

I did the first part about 18 months since, The Explorer, you take the test online, print out your feedback and then do the test again. On my 2nd attempt I got 90% pass mark, only needed 70% - but hated the course content so much as it was utterly boring, and I didn't bother with the rest.

It's not for everyone, and I guess there's no guarantee of a job at the end

.