My neighbour, who I normally get on with very well, has bought an airgun to shoot magpies as he thinks they are a pest to the smaller birds. There were a lot but I think we're down to 3 or 4 only now and he has killed the young ones. He killed another one yesterday and I was really upset as I had put tit bits out for the birds and he got it leaving my garden. I don't want to fall out obviously but I think enough is enough. Does anyone know of any laws relating to the killing of wild birds?

Magpies are considered to be vermin and can legally be killed.

You can complain to the authotites if he is shooting within so many feet of public access and as I guess he is your neighbour I would suggest he is falling foul of the laws. I'm sure you would be able to complain to the Police anon and they would take it from there.

I just had a quick look on the RSPB web site, I hate to see any animal killed, even though I know sometimes it has to be done.

Anyway, here's a link to the laws relating to magpies:

www.rspb.org.uk/birds/advice/magpies/law.asp

cheers

Originally posted by Bad_Hair_Day
I just had a quick look on the RSPB web site, I hate to see any animal killed, even though I know sometimes it has to be done.

Anyway, here's a link to the laws relating to magpies:

www.rspb.org.uk/birds/advice/magpies/law.asp

cheers

Nice to see Cyclone is full of accurate facts again !!

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
Nice to see Cyclone is full of accurate facts again !!
I'm never one to agree with 'Sir post-a-lot, pretending to know what he's talking about' but he is correct, as the link confirms. Authorised people may shoot magpies if they endanger wild birds, which is pretty much all magpies do, fly around looking for chicks to kill - in this case the landowner (homeowner) is the authorised person. As long as no firearms laws are broken then this is fine.

Originally posted by floyd77
As long as no firearms laws are broken then this is fine.

Possible laws being broken are:

- discharging the firearm within 50ft of the centre of a public place (neighbours garden) or highway (includes a footpath) in a manner likely to cause a nuisance/endanger persons using that highway.

- if they are tenants, it is likely that they are breaking terms of their tenancy agreement and will therefore not be "authorised".

Originally posted by cgksheff
Possible laws being broken are:

- discharging the firearm within 50ft of the centre of a public place (neighbours garden) or highway (includes a footpath) in a manner likely to cause a nuisance/endanger persons using that highway.

- if they are tenants, it is likely that they are breaking terms of their tenancy agreement and will therefore not be "authorised".
Very true, thats why I said "as long as no firearms laws are being broken" :suspect:

Originally posted by floyd77
I'm never one to agree with 'Sir post-a-lot, pretending to know what he's talking about' but he is correct, as the link confirms. Authorised people may shoot magpies if they endanger wild birds, which is pretty much all magpies do, fly around looking for chicks to kill - in this case the landowner (homeowner) is the authorised person. As long as no firearms laws are broken then this is fine.

I'm pretty sure this neighbour will be neither authorised to cull the Maggies or acting in a legal manner.

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
Nice to see Cyclone is full of accurate facts again !!

what's your problem, my post was correct, I never said that there was no more information to be found.

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
I'm pretty sure this neighbour will be neither authorised to cull the Maggies or acting in a legal manner.
Why?
We have no info about whether he owns the house, or how far away a public highway is.
If its their house, and far enough away, its perfectly legal.
If its not his house, or is too close, then it illegal.

If the original poster gives us more info, then we can work out if it is legal or not. Until then we cant, I was simply stating the facts, not jumping to conclusions like some.

Originally posted by Cyclone
what's your problem, my post was correct, I never said that there was no more information to be found.

They cannot be "legally killed" by some one leaning out there window taking pot shots !!

This is just as bad as the guy convicted yesterday of murdering a two year old with an air rifle. He was aiming at some one else.

Shall we discuss the issues of legal gun ownership and resposibilty or just accept that any one can shoot an air rifle out of their back garden at any thing they want???

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
They cannot be "legally killed" by some one leaning out there window taking pot shots !!


Yes, they can. Cant you read??

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
They cannot be "legally killed" by some one leaning out there window taking pot shots !!

This is just as bad as the guy convicted yesterday of murdering a two year old with an air rifle. He was aiming at some one else.

Shall we discuss the issues of legal gun ownership and resposibilty or just accept that any one can shoot an air rifle out of their back garden at any thing they want???

yes they can, if the garden is big enough.
The fact is, killing magpies per se is not illegal, unlike killing most other animals, which is the information I was providing.

It is restricted, in that it can only be done in certain circumstances and in certain ways, but there is no blanket illegality imposed on it, and thus it's not illegal.

It could be done in your own garden with the larsen trap as mentioned in the rspb link.

You did read the article right? Or was it just enough of it to try and score points?

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
They cannot be "legally killed" by some one leaning out there window taking pot shots !!...
It would appear that they can (by the homeowner, if he isn't breaking firearms laws), but, typically think about the legal minutia on this one...

...as it says on the RSPB site
An 'authorised person' is a landowner or occupier, or someone acting with the landowner's or occupier's permission
most homes in Sheffield are leasehold, so you aren't the "landowner", but most probably will be the "occupier".

As has been said above, really it all comes down to where the firearm is used (and how far away the public are), that's all.

The other assumption is that the person is over 17 or being supervised.
The original post implies that this is the case.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RazorSHarp
[B]They cannot be "legally killed" by some one leaning out there window taking pot shots !!

This is just as bad as the guy convicted yesterday of murdering a two year old with an air rifle.

No it isnt there's a big difference.

No regardless of what the RSPB link says you cannot take random shots from any weapon if you are within 50 feet of a public highway / right of way.

This guy is breaking the law. His neighbour I would guess lives within a lesser distance.

Even if the guy has permission, he is still acting without due care and responsibilty.

It is an offence under Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 to discharge a firearm without legal authority or excuse within 15 metres (50 feet) of the centre of a highway if any highway user is injured, interrupted or endangered as a result.
Shooting across or near a public right of way when it is being used could also amount to a common law nuisance.

I didn't think an air rifle was a firearm anyway.

ive worked in the gun trade for over 20 yrs and as far as shooting magpies is concerned it is legal to shoot them on ur own boundries, or u have permission to shoot them on that land providing no pellets leave those boundries, and magpies are concidered vermin

oh and an air rifle only becomes a fire arm wen it exceeds 12 foot pound of energy, all guns sold in england are sub:12 foot pound, if they exceed that u would need a licence to own it cos then its classed as a firearm.

Ignoring the 'legalities' in this case, this neighbour is either very concerned about conservancy and doing his bit, or he is a prat who is taking great delight in killing animals for the 'sport'.

If it's the former, then good luck to him if he is doing it within the law........If it's the latter, then I hope he falls out of his upstairs window. He must be one sad git.

ive shot rats for years on a farm,no probs,
regulary go out with the farmer,people have done for years,
although no laws have been broken here (more than likely ?)
i doulbt if the guy is doing a responcible bit for conservation,
i spent 3 years target shooting at the club until i could put at least 19/20 shots into an old 10p at 20 yd's (standing),only then did i class myself good enough to take any form of life,and only then when its absolutely needed,
i just wish other people would be as carefull and respectfull,
id have a word with him about the law and the fact your concerned about what he's doing,
ive never once in 15 years fired any of my guns in the garden nor have the vast majority of responcible shooters for this reason,
JJ..

If he hits a magpie without killing it cleanly does he find it to put it out of it's misery?

Why not just ring the police, RSPB or RSPCA and leave them to sort it out ?

Going back to the article on the RSPB site, it says:

Shooting must be well away from public roads and houses, so is seldom possible in urban areas

So yes, he is probably breaking the law if he is doing this in a residential area of Sheffield.

The police will do absolutely nothing in this case. I know someone who was shooting Pigeons and Magpies that landed on his roof. His next door neighbour called the police and the police told him he was doing a good job of keeping the vermin down :?

However, they did point out that he had to remove any carcases and not leave any bird to suffer.

He is shooting at the back of the house which adjoins open fields so there's rarely anyone about. This area is very open with fields all around the houses and he moved here about a year ago from a very built-up area. He loves it and has become interested in the wildlife so I know he is not doing this for 'fun'. He knows I am upset about the shootings so I will wait to see if he carries on with it.
Many thanks to all for the useful info.

Originally posted by Trishtee
He loves it and has become interested in the wildlife so I know he is not doing this for 'fun'. He knows I am upset about the shootings so I will wait to see if he carries on with it.
Many thanks to all for the useful info.

Being 'interested in wildlife' is *not* killing it because it eats something else! What next? Is he going to start on sparrowhawks or kestrels? It's nature - I love the birds in my garden and I don't like it when magpies and sparrowhawks carry them off but that's the circle of life isn't it? There's a balance in these things. And despite all the opinions on here, leaning out of your bedroom window firing an air rifle doesn't sound like its within the law to me. As one or two people have mentioned, why not just ask the police?

Originally posted by irenewilde
doesn't sound like its within the law to me. As one or two people have mentioned, why not just ask the police?
It doesnt really matter what it sounds like to you - The law is the law, if you cant comprehend it then call the police and let them tell you exactly the same thing.

How come we're all experts on this situation all of a sudden anyway - who says he leans out of a window, who knows how big the garden is, who knows how close any highways or neighbours houses are?

I love the birds in my garden and I don't like it when magpies and sparrowhawks carry them off but that's the circle of life isn't it?
And Circle of life is it now? So when rats infest somewhere we leave them to it, as its what they do? I dont mind a little bit of disease, bless them rats. Dont kill them - its in their nature! When a mountain lion kills a human, it gets hunted and shot, why? Its in a mountain lions nature to eat prey (us) when we come into its territory. When they have a cull of deer in Scotland every now and again, its not because the deer are doing anything wrong, they're just going about their business acting in their nature as they do.

But God fobid we kill a magpie, known for wiping out whole nests of chicks, not to eat though, just for magpie fun, with no discrimination, which is classed as vermin, and even the RSPB say its ok to kill!
Can I have some of what you're smoking please?

Originally posted by irenewilde
Being 'interested in wildlife' is *not* killing it because it eats something else! What next? Is he going to start on sparrowhawks or kestrels? It's nature - I love the birds in my garden and I don't like it when magpies and sparrowhawks carry them off but that's the circle of life isn't it? There's a balance in these things. And despite all the opinions on here, leaning out of your bedroom window firing an air rifle doesn't sound like its within the law to me. As one or two people have mentioned, why not just ask the police?

Actually I thought it did, I even thought that Trishtee (the OP) was pretty much saying that he probably is within the guidelines as already explained.
Maybe you should take the time to read the link provided near the start before commenting.

Magpies are a blasted nuisnce as far as other birds are concerned. However, they are protected by the European Birds Directive and it is illegal to kill them willy-nilly.

Originally posted by Escafeldia
...However, they are protected by the European Birds Directive and it is illegal to kill them willy-nilly.
Not in the UK, as was covered by the RSPB site linked to earlier
Magpies and the law

Magpies are fully protected by the European Union Birds Directive. The UK Government has derogated (made an exception) from the Directive in relation to control of magpies.

Under annual general licence issued under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (for which it is not necessary to apply individually), magpies may be killed...

Source RSPB, link:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/advice/magpies/law.asp

So, in the UK a landowner, or occupier, or someone authorised by them, can kill magpies.

End of story.

:|

Originally posted by Escafeldia
Magpies are a blasted nuisnce as far as other birds are concerned. However, they are protected by the European Birds Directive and it is illegal to kill them willy-nilly.

does no one bother to read the links anyone provides.

We derogated (that means don't have to stick too) that bit of the directive, specifically for the pest magpie.

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Not in the UK, as was covered by the RSPB site linked to earlier


Source RSPB, link:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/advice/magpies/law.asp

So, in the UK a landowner, or occupier, or someone authorised by them, can kill magpies.

End of story.

:|

This is the bit further down the page you gave which shows the neighbour shouldn't be shooting the birds.

Magpies may be shot, again only by a landowner or someone acting with the landowner's permission, for the purposes outlined above. Shooting must be well away from public roads and houses, so is seldom possible in urban areas

Makes the legal point quite plain I think.

at least theyr'e not being accused of being racist roday.

Originally posted by Escafeldia
This is the bit further down the page you gave which shows the neighbour shouldn't be shooting the birds.

Magpies may be shot, again only by a landowner or someone acting with the landowner's permission, for the purposes outlined above. Shooting must be well away from public roads and houses, so is seldom possible in urban areas

Makes the legal point quite plain I think.

unfortunately the act of ifring the gun is the illegal act not the shooting of the bird. that is the correct interpretation. cyclones post was accurate killing the bird is not illegal!.discharging the gun could be!!!

Originally posted by Escafeldia
This is the bit further down the page you gave which shows the neighbour shouldn't be shooting the birds.

Magpies may be shot, again only by a landowner or someone acting with the landowner's permission, for the purposes outlined above. Shooting must be well away from public roads and houses, so is seldom possible in urban areas

Makes the legal point quite plain I think.

except for the fact that he probably is the landowner and it's been stated that he has a large garden bordered by fields.

So he's not in an urban area is he.

Originally posted by Escafeldia
This is the bit further down the page you gave which shows the neighbour shouldn't be shooting the birds.

Magpies may be shot, again only by a landowner or someone acting with the landowner's permission, for the purposes outlined above. Shooting must be well away from public roads and houses, so is seldom possible in urban areas

Makes the legal point quite plain I think.

So what part of that says he cant shoot magpies, we dont know the layout of the property, where this person lives, how big their garden is?

Your first point was that magpies were protected, which was claptrap - now you counter with nonsense? Pick an argument and stick to it why dontcha!

No one is disputing that this person may not be able to shoot an air rifle legally, we do know that it is perfectly possible if certain guidelines are met, its not outside the realms of possibility to have a large enough garden to do this, obviously not if you live in a terrace or flat, but not everyone does - but we simply dont have enough information!

Originally posted by floyd77
I
Can I have some of what you're smoking please?

Sure you can mate, maybe it would calm you down a bit.

Originally posted by irenewilde
Sure you can mate, maybe it would calm you down a bit.

Excellent! All is forgiven then :clap:

Lets just hope he salutes it shortly after he's pumped it full of lead!

crikey........I am glad I'm not a magpie! I saw my weeping willow bowing today.......guess what.....it was a magpie on the branch. We have a large garden and we are the landowners as well. I don't have a gun but if I did I would not use it on any of our wildlife. Life is a circle as somebody pointed out and somebody came back with the one about rats. No rats here because we have a cat that kills them. What concerns me more is the revolting little man that lives in our neighbourhood......who sits in his bay window........bare chested because he thinks he is Gods gift........polishing a gun!! Now don't ask me what sort of a gun it is because I have no idea! All I know is that it has a wooden bit with a long thin barrel. This bloke is over 60 and not known for having a sweet nature!! Should we be worried or just the magpies and rats??

Originally posted by Escafeldia
This is the bit further down the page you gave which shows the neighbour shouldn't be shooting the birds.

"Magpies may be shot , again only by a landowner or someone acting with the landowner's permission, for the purposes outlined above. Shooting must be well away from public roads and houses, so is seldom possible in urban areas"

Makes the legal point quite plain I think.
Yes it does doesn't it.

Magpies may be shot

Glad you've finally got it.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

The "where's" are all about firearms use, not the legality pertaining to magpies.

:thumbsup:

I belong to two gun clubs, Wortley and Fox House Sporting Clays. I have been shooting for 14 years and owned my own gun under license for just over a year now.

During this whole period I have never shot any living creature with either airgun or shotgun. There is absolutely no need, it's more fun to compete against others shooting targets or clays.

If any body wants to take up shooting or pursue this sport, there is plenty of clubs that would readily accept new members, maybe this neighbour needs to join one of these clubs so all of his trigger happiness is used up there, rather than shooting Maggies.

magpies are a pest, they are shot as vermin because they heavily predate song birds, damaging the populations of them.

Originally posted by Cyclone
magpies are a pest, they are shot as vermin because they heavily predate song birds, damaging the populations of them.

I think one guy with an air rifle wouldn't cause too much of a dent in the population of maggies so this excuse for killing them is a bit lame.

It is in their nature to predate on other species and as such this trait does not make them vermin !!

vermin [Show phonetics]
plural noun
1 small animals and insects that can be harmful and which are difficult to control when they appear in large numbers:
Flies, lice, rats, foxes and cockroaches can all be described as vermin.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=88045&dict=CALD

Jeez - give it a rest.

Magpies may be shot - fact

Depending on your location, you may not be able to shoot a rifle - fact

If you want to talk about the ethics behind it all, start a new thread! This one was about whether it was legal or not.

I think one guy with an air rifle wouldn't cause too much of a dent in the population of maggies so this excuse for killing them is a bit lame.
Your posts are getting lame - no excuse is needed, you're allowed to do it!

Originally posted by Cyclone
magpies are a pest, they are shot as vermin because they heavily predate song birds, damaging the populations of them.

in that case shouldn't there be a mass cull of housecats?

It just annoys me when people assume they have the right to do things like this, and then think they're doing wildlife a favour?

Like the 'British Association for Shooting and Conservation' - they're certainly not conserving the animals they love to shoot

Originally posted by bielby

It just annoys me when people assume they have the right to do things like this, and then think they're doing wildlife a favour?


They do, and they are - what dont you get?

Originally posted by bielby
in that case shouldn't there be a mass cull of housecats?

It just annoys me when people assume they have the right to do things like this, and then think they're doing wildlife a favour?

Like the 'British Association for Shooting and Conservation' - they're certainly not conserving the animals they love to shoot

maybe, i don't care.
Magpie can be described as vermin, they meet the conditions from the dictionary definition.
People do have the right (legally) to shoot them, which was my very first response to this thread, which other people contested.

One person might not have much impact, but fortunately there's more than one person doing it. That's like arguing that your vote won't have much effect. When many people do something then they do have an effect together.

Maybe that was what each individual buffalo hunter though, 1 person shooting a few buffalo won't have much effect.
Then, woops, their nearly extinct, how did that happen?

The RSPB may have the current legislation on it's website but it does not mean that they condone shooting magpies. Farmers who are losing crops may have a valid reason I suppose but not the average householder.

The RSPB website clearly states that magpies are NOT thought to be to blame for the drop in song bird numbers. Adults may kill chicks in the vicinity of their nests but it is to preserve the food supply for their own chicks, it is not for fun of it.

Cats kill far more songbirds than magpies and even they are not to blame. In fact songbird numbers have decreased just as much in areas where there are no cats or magpies.

All bird and nature societies (excepting those that have an interest in killing things) now feel that the blame lies squarely with modern farming and gardening methods ie us.

Maybe if the man shooting magpies was made aware of this he wouldn't want to shoot them in the first place. It does sound like he thinks he's doing the right thing.

Originally posted by chin_wag
It does sound like he thinks he's doing the right thing.

No it doesnt sound like that at all, the man has not posted here, nor has he commented or been quoted. This is all conjecture!

The question was:
Man is shooting magpies, is this allowed?
Answer:
Yes, if firearms laws are not broken.

Now there seems to be another point here, which is:
Ethically or morally, should the guy be shooting them? By all means debate that, but please dont confuse the issues.

Personally, I know that cats are a huge problem for birds, but we cant kill them! Magpies we can, so shoot away IMO.
A friends parents have a huge garden, with many trees and bushes - magpies would routinely come from far away (no magpies nested nearby) and kill the chicks and smaller birds. He got fed up with this - finding dead birds, watching the magpies playing with the bodies etc, so he got himself an air rifle. He didnt get any as he couldnt shoot for toffee, but if he was competant at shooting, I dont see a problem with this.

Originally posted by rothschild
No rats here because we have a cat that kills them.

Going o/t here,but cats DO NOT keep the number of rats down.Moggies,incommon with most predators,will only prey on sick,young or old rats.An adult,fully fit rat is more than a match for a domestic cat-especially when the cat knows theres any easier way of getting fed(run home and nibble on the kitty-kat;) )

My neighbour, who I normally get on with very well, has bought an airgun to shoot magpies as he thinks they are a pest to the smaller birds.

This is what the original poster said so I think that what I posted was relevant.

Personally I'll continue to put my trust in the RSPB rather than your friends parents who aren't posting here any more than the original posters neighbour!

As for airguns, I think we all agree that current legislation states that they must not be used near public road and that pellets must not leave your property.

Therefore anyone who is shooting magpies in their garden better have a pretty large garden or they are breaking the law.

Originally posted by Cyclone
does no one bother to read the links anyone provides.




Nobody ever does,,,they see a post then yeeeehaw out comes the moral high horse.
All other views get sidetracked,apart from their own this is seen more and more on this forum now.

whatever happened to the quality debates that used to take place on here? now most threads are reduced to petty bickering.

Sorry for going off topic.

Birds which may be killed or taken by authorised persons:


Crow (Carrion) Rook, Magpie, Jackdaw , Jay

Dove (Collared) Pigeon (Feral) Wood Pigeon

Gull (Great Black-Backed) Gull (Herring) Gull (Lesser Black-Backed )

Sparrow (House), Starling.

http://f4bscale.worldonline.co.uk/gunlaw.htm


All wild birds, their nests and their eggs are protected by law. The level of this protection depends on whether the bird is rare or endangered (these are shown on Schedule 1 of the WCA) but even very common birds such as robins and blackbirds are protected. Some birds can be shot for sport but only at certain times of the year. Other birds may be killed because they are pests (for example, magpies or crows) but this can only be done under certain conditions by authorised persons

It is against the law for anyone to have an airgun in a public place unless they have some proper reason for doing so - for example, it has just been confiscated from an offender. A public place is anywhere where the public are allowed to go, regardless of who owns the land, and even though they may have to pay. Roads, streets, footpaths, canal towpaths, public parks, play areas are all examples of public places. If the general public have some sort of right or permission to be in a particular place, that is a public place and you are not allowed to have a loaded airgun in that place.

Perhaps he LIKES shooting and killing things! Perhaps it will be cats next, then people. Some people just like shooting things for reasons known only to themselves. It gives them a sense of power. Something which someone who needs to even contemplate an air gun, will no doubt never achieve in their real life.

Originally posted by The Zeppelin
Perhaps he LIKES shooting and killing things! Perhaps it will be cats next, then people. Some people just like shooting things for reasons known only to themselves. It gives them a sense of power. Something which someone who needs to even contemplate an air gun, will no doubt never achieve in their real life.

are you saying that anyone who likes shooting will never amount to much? Seems like a huge generalisation.

There are a lot of error in this thread. Be sure to clear up/confirm anything that is written by a person with the actual facts from the government/police/conservation authories etc.

Air weapons ARE firearms unless under 1ftlb which is basically plasic BB shooters only but these could still cause issues under nuisance laws. Most air weapons are up to 12ftlbs but there are that are more powerful making them not sure a firearm, but a "part 1" firearm.

The 50ft applies to public access but not necessarily a neighbors land unless that is public area, either for free as in a right of way or chargable as in a house operating as a nursery or other business.

You need to ensure and make precautions so that your pellet doesnt leave your land!

Bird classified as a nuisance or pest or virmin etc need to have good reason to be controlled, like damaging crops, not just living in a tree and crapping on your lawn. However it they were damaging your building or cars then that would be a justifiable reason.

Shooting just because they are on a list is not reason enough.

If your shooting into trees then its VERY likely that your pellet will stray on another persons land or public area and this is "constructive trespass". Any form of armed trespass is HEAVILY punishable by law. I cannot see how shooting into trees would be OK at all, NOBODY can tell me honestly that their pellet will not miss and travel into somebody elses land, unless you own that adjacent land of course.

http://www.mileoakshootingclub.co.uk/8.html

Basically to shoot safely in your home you need to be further than 50ft from the centre of the road outside your house, away from any other public areas, you need a strong backstop to ensure your pellet doesnt travel or ideally shoot into a garage or shed to ensure the pellet cannot travel away even if it deflects off something.

They're very interesting birds to watch. We've got two that come to the garden. We put out fat/suet/seeds in a half coconut shell and the magpies had a project for a couple of weeks of stripping all the hair of the coconut shell and when they finished that they stole the string that the shell was hung up with. They didn't want the food, just the hair and the string. Crazy birds.

Never knew that they were so dangerous to other birds though. When is the time when they're most dangerous because I'll try and keep em away from our nesting boxes.

The RSPB website clearly states that magpies are NOT thought to be to blame for the drop in song bird numbers. Adults may kill chicks in the vicinity of their nests but it is to preserve the food supply for their own chicks, it is not for fun of it.



Although an RSPB member I'd disagree with them on this. 10 years ago we often had six / seven magpies in the vicinity and other birds were a rarity.

Now we only have the very occasional magpie and a fair number of smaller birds - blackbird, thrush, robin, dunnock, wren, blue tit, great tit, long tailed tit are all regulars in the garden.

Cats don't seem to make any difference either.

I wouldn't bother reporting him to the police. I have a neighbour who does exactly the same thing. I have reported him to the police on 3 occasions, the first two occasions I was taken seriously and on the third I was not. The man is a menace and there seems to be very little we can legally do about him. I have grown up with legally owned responsibly used firearms and this "individual" tarnishes the reputation of people who use firearms responsibly.

The Chatsworth estate game keepers kill Magpies, rabbits, squirrels and foxes on sight. The estate introduced Buzzards and Goshawks to help with rabbit control, but Magpies and squirrels were destroying eggs and young birds and foxes were taking lambs and Pheasants, whilst rabbits were making walkways unsafe by burrowing.

However, urban dwellers are not attempting to conserve a country estate, a poorly aimed shot from an amature could have someones eye out, or even worse. Anyway, it is illegal to fire any type of firearm (including airguns) in built up areas, fact.

As for airguns, I think we all agree that current legislation states that they must not be used near public road and that pellets must not leave your property.

Therefore anyone who is shooting magpies in their garden better have a pretty large garden or they are breaking the law.

They can be used within 50ft a public road provided they do not endanger or impede any road user. Shooting in your back garden is highly unlikely to impede / endanger a road user I'd have thought.

I can't stand magpie's either for the damage they do to the songbirds. Though I don't think there seems as many around in SW Sheffield as there used to be.
Gamekeepers use Larson traps to control them.

The Chatsworth estate game keepers kill Magpies, rabbits, squirrels and foxes on sight. The estate introduced Buzzards and Goshawks to help with rabbit control, but Magpies and squirrels were destroying eggs and young birds and foxes were taking lambs and Pheasants, whilst rabbits were making walkways unsafe by burrowing.

However, urban dwellers are not attempting to conserve a country estate, a poorly aimed shot from an amature could have someones eye out, or even worse. Anyway, it is illegal to fire any type of firearm (including airguns) in built up areas, fact.

No, it isn't. I am legally allowed to use my air rifle in my girlfriends garden in suburban Leeds.

No, it isn't. I am legally allowed to use my air rifle in my girlfriends garden in suburban Leeds.


If I had gun in L*@!s it wouln't just be the magpies I'd be shooting!:D

No, it isn't. I am legally allowed to use my air rifle in my girlfriends garden in suburban Leeds.

Complete rubbish, so you can fire at a target in the garden, miss and hit a child in the next garden, read the constructive trespass rules, what planet are you on?

If I had gun in L*@!s it wouln't just be the magpies I'd be shooting!:D

At LS11 0ES a tactical nuclear weapon wouldn't go amiss.

Has anyone noticed that prior to today the previous post on this thread was made nearly five years ago.

At LS11 0ES a tactical nuclear weapon wouldn't go amiss.

Is this personal or general? ;)

I wouldn't bother reporting him to the police.

Me neither, seeing as the original post is 5 years old!

if your neighbour really needs to kill these poor birds ask them to visit a local
farmer to see if he can shoot them on his land,my dad did this years ago and the farmer was happy to let him. but then why cant humans leave nature to work it's own way instead of saying there are too many?

Zero cool - why has it taken you nearly 5 years to respond to this thread?

Providing the individual is shooting at any "target" within their own boundary limits and the weapon discharged is 15m (50ft approx) from a public highway/right of way and the projectile (in this case a pellet) does not cross any boundary, they are within their legal rights.
Magpies are covered by the general licence on shooting animals/birds in this country (and other members of the corvid family of birds also) along with pigeons, brown rats, rabbits, squirrels, in certain cases mink, amongst others. These species are deemed as being "pests" and can be rightfully shot by the landowner, or their representative that have been given lawful permission, generally in writing.
I think you can find the rest if you search for "airgun laws in the UK" if this interests any of you

I just had a quick look on the RSPB web site, I hate to see any animal killed, even though I know sometimes it has to be done.

Anyway, here's a link to the laws relating to magpies:

www.rspb.org.uk/birds/advice/magpies/law.asp

cheers

Link doesn't WORK

first post on this was ( 10-08-2005, 13:15 ) lol come on this is dragging it out

i wouldnt waste your time reporting it to police trust me they will not do a single thing!!

Possible laws being broken are:

- discharging the firearm within 50ft of the centre of a public place (neighbours garden) or highway (includes a footpath) in a manner likely to cause a nuisance/endanger persons using that highway.

- if they are tenants, it is likely that they are breaking terms of their tenancy agreement and will therefore not be "authorised".

An airgun is not a firearm.

An airgun is not a firearm.

Airguns in the UK are subject to the firearms act.
In fact my dad was done for trespassing with intent to cause criminal damage with a firearm using a sub 12 foot pounds pneumatic air rifle.

Complete rubbish, so you can fire at a target in the garden, miss and hit a child in the next garden, read the constructive trespass rules, what planet are you on?

Not rubbish at all - it's perfectly legal to use an airgun on your own property as long as you're not within 50 feet of the road.

Providing the individual is shooting at any "target" within their own boundary limits and the weapon discharged is 15m (50ft approx) from a public highway/right of way and the projectile (in this case a pellet) does not cross any boundary, they are within their legal rights.
Magpies are covered by the general licence on shooting animals/birds in this country (and other members of the corvid family of birds also) along with pigeons, brown rats, rabbits, squirrels, in certain cases mink, amongst others. These species are deemed as being "pests" and can be rightfully shot by the landowner, or their representative that have been given lawful permission, generally in writing.
I think you can find the rest if you search for "airgun laws in the UK" if this interests any of you

See above.

An airgun is not a firearm.
Try saying that to SI19 yer pillock... grow up and post rational stuff...:huh:

Try saying that to SI19 yer pillock... grow up and post rational stuff...:huh:

What's your problem? Nothing irrational about it. Airguns aren't firearms. If they produce over 12 ft/lbs of muzzle energy (rifles) or 6 ft/lbs (pistols) the law treats them as if they were - i.e. you require a firearms licence, but under those limits they are neither firearms nor regarded by the law as such.

Many thousands of people lawfully and safely shoot in their gardens .. always have .. always will,
no amount of misinformation being thrown about on this forum will alter that fact ;),

I asked the firearms liasion officer to come and check out my mates garden to make sure it was safe enough,
he was very impressed with the set up and the backstop,

If anyone is interested in the law concerning shooting then there are many shooting forums on the net that will help answer your queries,


I wonder if the bloke in the o.p is still alive after 5 years hanging out of his window :hihi:

JJ..:)

I thought Magpies were vermin as long as its on ur own turf who gives a dam!

I thought Magpies were vermin as long as its on ur own turf who gives a dam!

Yeah but where is the sport...Wren's are harder to hit.

An airgun is not a firearm.

Yes they are!!! Unless they are under 1 foot pound! Thats around 1/10th of the power of the average air rifle.

They are not a "part 1" firearm which is what you meant.

Could you please define the "dis-information"?

With regards to shooting on your own premises, as I rightly stated in an earlier post, you CANNOT legally discharge an air weapon (whether sub 12ft/lb or not) within 15m (50ft) of a public highway/right of way. This will include many gardens within an urban environment.

Unless you have a dedicated facility (ie concrete bunker type construction) where the discharged projectile cannot leave the confines of said "bunker" (which would cost an arm and a leg I guess), then the law is the law and anyone caught discharging the weapon may be subject to prosecution.

Many thousands of people lawfully and safely shoot in their gardens .. always have .. always will,
no amount of misinformation being thrown about on this forum will alter that fact ;),

I asked the firearms liasion officer to come and check out my mates garden to make sure it was safe enough,
he was very impressed with the set up and the backstop,

If anyone is interested in the law concerning shooting then there are many shooting forums on the net that will help answer your queries,


I wonder if the bloke in the o.p is still alive after 5 years hanging out of his window :hihi:

JJ..:)

Air Rifles are not toys. A Weihrauch HW80K will easily go through a tin of ham, and then through a wheely bin and out through the the other side, and that with an ordinary cheapo non heavy duty .22 pellet.

Ensure that a robust backstop is in place.

"Mystery over Manchester gardener with bullet in brain"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8671794.stm

"Mystery over Manchester gardener with bullet in brain"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8671794.stm

That looks like a 9 Milli to me.

I didn't think an air rifle was a firearm anyway.

an air gun is only considered a firearm if an offence is commited, which is a bit wierd.

also as long as the neighbour in question isnt shooting whithin 15 meteres of a public highway, and the projectile doesnt leave the boundries of his land, he is shooting whithin the law. that is regardless of whether any neighbouring land is 2ft away.

the only two things that you can probably get him on, are the 15 meter rule, and whether his pellet is leaving his land when he shoots.

I thought that the 50 feet rule was from the CENTRE of a Public Highway ?

Could you please define the "dis-information"?

With regards to shooting on your own premises, as I rightly stated in an earlier post, you CANNOT legally discharge an air weapon (whether sub 12ft/lb or not) within 15m (50ft) of a public highway/right of way. This will include many gardens within an urban environment.

..........

As pointed out above, the Section 161 of The Highways Act 1980 (as ammended) states 50ft from the centre of the highway ....

... and the offence only occurs IF "in consequence a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered".

An air rifle that is more powerful than 12 ft lb, (16.25J) is classed as a firearm.

Most are under this figure and are therefore not firearms

An air rifle that is more powerful than 12 ft lb, (16.25J) is classed as a firearm.

Most are under this figure and are therefore not firearms

Airguns in the UK are subject to the firearms acts, under the Firearms (Dangerous air weapons) rules 1969 they are classified as low powered Air Weapons and as such they are restricted to a maximum power of 12 foot pounds energy for a rifle and 6 foot pounds energy for a pistol. Air rifles above 12ft/lbs are classified as a Section 1 Firearm and requires a licence (FAC) otherwise known as a firearms certificate, and an Air pistol above 6ftlb is a prohibited weapon.

This is taken from Airgunforum.co.uk and shows that you, heavenlyarts, are slightly incorrect in your statement. An air weapon that produces over 12ft/lbs comes under the classification of Section 1 of the Firearms Act and therefore requires a license (FAC) otherwise known as a firearms certificate. An air pistol that develops over 6 ft/lbs is prohibited.

For anyone else, esp. those stating that certain air weapons are toys, this should help clarify this:-

An "airgun" with the kinetic energy of less than one joule is considered a toy and is therefore not covered by the above restrictions but may be considered a realistic imitation firearm (if it looks like a gun). The sale of realistic imitation firearms is now banned with one or two minor exceptions, mainly for historical re-enactment, museums and television/film/theatrical performances or as a recognized member of an airsoft site affiliated to the Association of British AirSoft.

In addition to my last post, here are a few offence penalties relating to this long running thread.

The Penalties for breaking current UK firearms laws with Airguns are as follows:-
Carrying a loaded Air-weapon in a public place 6 months imprisonment and / or £5,000 fine.

Trespassing with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
Trespassing on private land with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.

Possessing or using an air weapon if sentenced to 3 months or more in custody 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.

In addition if original sentence up to 3 years 5 year ban on use of firearms.
Or if for 3 years or more Life ban on use of firearms.

Killing or injuring any bird or protected animal unless authorised £5,000 fine.

And finally to those insisting that shooting an airgun in your own back, front or side garden is within the law.....
Firing an air weapon within 15m / 50ft of a public highway £1,000 fine.

wow you still goin on about this 5 years after it started :loopy:

ps large font size not cool :|

As pointed out above, the Section 161 of The Highways Act 1980 (as ammended) states 50ft from the centre of the highway ....

... and the offence only occurs IF "in consequence a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered".

Please don't be misled by this...... according to the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, it is an offence to discharge an airweapon whether a user of the highway is affected or not and subjuct to the penalty as stated in the Firearms Act (Dangerous Air Weapons) 1969 - £1000

Font size was increased to drive home the point that it is still an offence to discharge an air weapon in your garden within the stated distance from a highway/public right of way

Please don't be misled by this...... according to the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, it is an offence to discharge an airweapon whether a user of the highway is affected or not and subjuct to the penalty as stated in the Firearms Act (Dangerous Air Weapons) 1969 - £1000

Could you quote the text of the relevant legisation please?

The police will do absolutely nothing in this case. I know someone who was shooting Pigeons and Magpies that landed on his roof. His next door neighbour called the police and the police told him he was doing a good job of keeping the vermin down :?

However, they did point out that he had to remove any carcases and not leave any bird to suffer.

December 26th 1979 Sheffield Wednesday 4 Sheffield United 0 (Boxing Day Massacre) They certainly don't like it up 'em

Please don't be misled by this...... according to the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, it is an offence to discharge an airweapon whether a user of the highway is affected or not and subjuct to the penalty as stated in the Firearms Act (Dangerous Air Weapons) 1969 - £1000

Thanks for that.

However, the Act refers to ".... firing a missile beyond those premises."

It is illegal to shoot a missile from an airweapon that goes beyond the boundary of the premises where have permission to shoot.

That does not prevent you from firing the weapon safely, within those premises, even if it is within 50ft of the centre of a Highway, if it does not affect any user of that highwy (as quoted in my post).

Thanks for that.

However, the Act refers to ".... firing a missile beyond those premises."

It is illegal to shoot a missile from an airweapon that goes beyond the boundary of the premises where have permission to shoot.

That does not prevent you from firing the weapon safely, within those premises, even if it is within 50ft of the centre of a Highway, if it does not affect any user of that highwy (as quoted in my post).

This is correct

Could you quote the text of the relevant legisation please?

Please bear with me and I will attempt to post...... My previous postings came from a 3rd party site and have obviously been para-phrased

This is correct

According to the Highways Act, maybe but my info comes from the Firearms Act..... Which would you like info from? Do the 2 Acts contradict each other?????

This is correct
Additionally, I admit this is correct!!! From the Highways Act that is!!! Read the Firearms Act, esp relating to the discharge of air weapons

Additionally, I admit this is correct!!! From the Highways Act that is!!! Read the Firearms Act, esp relating to the discharge of air weapons

I've read it often and have failed to see any contradiction.

Can you help, by quoting the relevant part?

I've read it often and have failed to see any contradiction.

Can you help, by quoting the relevant part?
Read which often...... Both state it's illegal to discharge an air weapon less than 15m from a public right of way

Magpies are legally allowed to be shot for being a pest, as long as the air rifle isn't a fire arm and is not conflicting with anyone near by it's ok.

IreneWild - I really don't know why you bother to post as you are a class example of reading the tale end of things then posting but without proper thought.

Magpies are legally allowed to be shot for being a pest


Indeed you are right. Also there's another species of Big Bird which needs to be shot and you'd know all about that Me old Mukka lol. :hihi::hihi:

Indeed you are right. Also there's another species of Big Bird which needs to be shot and you'd know all about that Me old Mukka lol. :hihi::hihi:

:hihi: i hate big birds

This text is copied directly from Airgunforum and relates directly to the use of airguns..... Hope this answers the queries posed/directed at my insistance in posting and includes the issue of shooting certain quarry, the distinction between an airsoft gun, air pistols (+6ft.lb illegality), airguns below FAC limits, weapons above the FAC limit etc, issues of proximity to public rights of way, penalties etc.

If I have offended or upset anyone, please accept my apologies but as a returning user of airguns for hunting, I have tried my best to cover as much ground as I could in the pursuit of my pastime so as to stay within the letter of the law. After all, I don't wish to be prosecuted for any infringement of the law!!!

Pleas enote that this Act is subsequently supported by the 2006 Violent Crime Reduction Act

Read on.......
Airguns in the UK are subject to the firearms acts, under the Firearms (Dangerous air weapons) rules 1969 they are classified as low powered Air Weapons and as such they are restricted to a maximum power of 12 foot pounds energy for a rifle and 6 foot pounds energy for a pistol. Air rifles above 12ft/lbs are classified as a Section 1 Firearm and requires a licence (FAC) otherwise known as a firearms certificate, and an Air pistol above 6ftlb is a prohibited weapon.

UK Legal Limit
To calculate the power of an airgun you need to use a chronograph to measure the speed of the pellet (in feet per second) when fired, and you need to know the weight of the pellet in grains. Once you have that information you perform the following calculation:- speed(ft/sec) X speed(ft/sec) X weight(grains) 450240
This gives you the result in foot pounds force (ftlb).
As mentioned the legal maximum for an unlicensed air rifle is 12 ftlb which from changing round the above formula, gives the approximate values as follows:-
A .22 pellet weighing 14.4 grains, maximum permissible speed is 612 ft/sec
A .177 pellet weighing 7.9 grains, maximum permissible speed is 826 ft/sec
The corresponding figures for a pistol are 433 ft/sec for a .22 and 584 ft/sec for a .177
The pellet weights used in the above calculation are typical weights for the sizes of pellet but you must always check the actual weight of your pellet before performing your own calculation.

Airgun Quarry
The following pests are considered suitable for controlling using a sub-12 ftlb Airgun.
BIRDS: (covered by the open general licences) crows, rooks, jackdaws, magpies, jays, wood pigeon, collared doves, and feral pigeons.
MAMMALS: brown rats, grey squirrels, stoats, mink and rabbits.
Information sheet on general licences for the control of certain bird species in the UK please click here to read
Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981
All bird and animals are protected by law. Certain species are classified as pests or vermin and only these species can be legitimately shot and then only by authorised persons. An Authorised Person is someone who has the proper permission from the land owner to control pests on that land.

Offence Penalties
The Penalties for breaking current UK firearms laws with Airguns are as follows:-
Carrying a loaded Air-weapon in a public place 6 months imprisonment and / or £5,000 fine.
Trespassing with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
Trespassing on private land with an air weapon 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
Possessing or using an air weapon if sentenced to 3 months or more in custody 3 months imprisonment and / or £2,500 fine.
In addition if original sentence up to 3 years 5 year ban on use of firearms.
Or if for 3 years or more Life ban on use of firearms.
Killing or injuring any bird or protected animal unless authorised £5,000 fine.
Firing an air weapon within 15m / 50ft of a public highway £1,000 fine.
Selling or hiring air weapon or ammunition to person under 17 6 months imprisonment and / or £5,000 fine.
Making a gift of air weapon or ammunition to person under 14 £1,000 fine.
Having air weapon or ammunition with intent to damage property 10 years imprisonment.
Having air weapon with intent to endanger life Life imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Using air weapon to resist or prevent arrest Life imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Threatening others with an air weapon (even if unloaded) to cause them to fear unlawful violence 10 years imprisonment and / or appropriate fine.
Not forgetting the chance of being shot and killed by the police should you not obey instructions when challenged by them, they cannot tell if you have just an airgun or a more lethal firearm so will treat all arms as lethal and respond accordingly.

Civil Law
It should be born in mind by every airgun shooter that the unexpected could happen and they could find themselves facing a civil action for damage to property or even injury to persons or livestock. Every airgun shooter should have Third Party Public Liability Insurance before venturing out of doors, and joining one of the bodies representing shooters interests is the best way to achieve this.


Following the enactment of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, listed below are the current regulations relating to the purchase, ownership, sale and possession of airguns and ammunition.

Persons under the age of 14:
1) No person under the age of 14 may purchase, hire or be given an airgun or ammunition.
2) A person under the age of 14 must at all times when shooting be supervised by a person over the age of 21.

Persons over the age of 14 but under 18:
1) No person under the age of 18 may purchase, hire or be given an airgun or ammunition.
2) A person in this age group may shoot unsupervised on private land with the permission of the landowner but must be supervised by somebody over the age of 21 if in a public place.
It should be noted that this means that a person aged seventeen and a half who may have a driving licence cannot take an air rifle from home to his club to shoot unless the gun is possessed by somebody over the age of eighteen or the seventeen and a half-year old is supervised by a person over the age of twenty-one.

Persons over the age of 18:
A person over the age of eighteen can buy an airgun and pellets and use them unsupervised.

General Restrictions:
1) It is an offence to have an airgun in a public place "without good reason", the proof being the responsibility of the possessor.
2) It is an offence to discharge a firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway, if doing so would cause a nuisance or endangering the public
3) When shooting over private land it is an offence for the pellet to go beyond the boundary of the premises on which the gun is being used unless there is permission from the adjoining landowner.
4) Persons who by way of trade deal in airguns, pressure bearing parts or component parts must be a Registered Firearms Dealer and any transaction must be face-to-face. Ammunition for airguns may continue to be sold by post.

Exceptions:
1) It is not an offence for a person to have with him an airgun or ammunition whilst being a member of a Home Office Approved Club in connection with target practice.
2) Air rifles with a muzzle energy in excess of 12 foot pounds (which require licensing) are not subject to the general restrictions listed above.
3) An "airgun" with the kinetic energy of less than one joule is considered a toy and is therefore not covered by the above restrictions but may be considered a realistic imitation firearm (if it looks like a gun). The sale of realistic imitation firearms is now banned with one or two minor exceptions, mainly for historical re-enactment, museums and television/film/theatrical performances or as a recognized member of an airsoft site affiliated to the Association of British AirSoft.


Crime and Security Bill:
Offence of allowing minors access to air rifles/pistols, The Firearms Act 1968 is amended as follows.
Failing to prevent minors from having air rifles/pistols.
It is an offence for a person in possession of an air rifle/pistol to fail to take reasonable precautions to prevent any persons under the age of 18 from having the air rifle/pistol with him.

Read which often...... Both state it's illegal to discharge an air weapon less than 15m from a public right of way

.... only when causing nuisance or endangering a passerby.
... or if the pellet crosses the boundary.


Your long cut&paste is not a definitive text.

Why not copy any relevant text from any of the legislation to support your claim?

.... only when causing nuisance or endangering a passerby.
... or if the pellet crosses the boundary.


Your long cut&paste is not a definitive text.

Why not copy any relevant text from any of the legislation to support your claim?

It may not be a definative text to you, as you state, but then please answer this, why do thousands of airgun hunters/shooters use this information in order to stay within the law?

Additionally, why would a forum dedicated to the sport of airgun shooting aim (pardon the pun) to put forum users off target (again pardon the pun)?

.... only when causing nuisance or endangering a passerby.
... or if the pellet crosses the boundary.


Your long cut&paste is not a definitive text.

Why not copy any relevant text from any of the legislation to support your claim?

The cut and paste rather than direct extraction from the relevant Act is from the forum stated in the former post, I presume the paraphrasing is done to simplify the "legal-ese" and make it more accessable to the layman.

Complain to the RSPB or shoot him with an airgun and see if he likes it,

Gotta love this thread.

It started with people who have no idea on the subject claiming it is illegal.
It ends with the same people arguing the law doesn't matter, they shouldn't be killing things on moral grounds.

Besides the law states 15m from centre of public highway. A lot of peoples backyards would be beyond this.
It's his life, he's acting within the law.

Sorted

Gotta love this thread.

It started with people who have no idea on the subject claiming it is illegal.
It ends with the same people arguing the law doesn't matter, they shouldn't be killing things on moral grounds.

Besides the law states 15m from centre of public highway. A lot of peoples backyards would be beyond this.
It's his life, he's acting within the law.

Sorted

Just found this on a site regarding legal use of Airgun's to dispose of "pest" birds

All wild birds, their nests and their eggs are protected by law. The level of this protection depends on whether the bird is rare or endangered (these are shown on Schedule 1 of the WCA) but even very common birds such as robins and blackbirds are protected. Some birds can be shot for sport but only at certain times of the year. Other birds may be killed because they are pests (for example, magpies or crows) but this can only be done under certain conditions by authorised persons

Thanks for that.

However, the Act refers to ".... firing a missile beyond those premises."

It is illegal to shoot a missile from an airweapon that goes beyond the boundary of the premises where have permission to shoot.

That does not prevent you from firing the weapon safely, within those premises, even if it is within 50ft of the centre of a Highway, if it does not affect any user of that highwy (as quoted in my post).


Correct in that any missile fired must NOT leave the boundry of the premises.

The shooter must also only shoot authorised vermin.

Brown Rat.
Grey squirrel.
Rabbit.
Crow.
Rook.
Magpie.
Jay.
Wood pigeon.
Collared dove.
Feral pigeon.
House mouse.
Mink.

Regards

Angel.

My neighbour, who I normally get on with very well, has bought an airgun to shoot magpies as he thinks they are a pest to the smaller birds. There were a lot but I think we're down to 3 or 4 only now and he has killed the young ones. He killed another one yesterday and I was really upset as I had put tit bits out for the birds and he got it leaving my garden. I don't want to fall out obviously but I think enough is enough. Does anyone know of any laws relating to the killing of wild birds?

The rspca can't really do anything . My brother in-laws neighbour had pigeons . <removed> everywhere . He asked the RSPCA . They said you can't shoot them with pellet guns . SO HE BOUGHT A RICE FIRING GUN .
WE PERSONALLY BOUGHT A CAT . LOL

Just found this on a site regarding legal use of Airgun's to dispose of "pest" birds

Yup, like the conditions that have been posted regarding pellets not leaving property and distance from paths/roads.
What's your point?

Quote:
All wild birds, their nests and their eggs are protected by law. The level of this protection depends on whether the bird is rare or endangered (these are shown on Schedule 1 of the WCA) but even very common birds such as robins and blackbirds are protected. Some birds can be shot for sport but only at certain times of the year. Other birds may be killed because they are pests (for example, magpies or crows) but this can only be done under certain conditions by authorised persons

This only applies if not shooting on your own land.
Shooting quarry anywhere else than your own property requires permission.

This is just as bad as the guy convicted yesterday of murdering a two year old with an air rifle.

Are you serious ???? :roll::loopy:

The time to worry is when you see him wandering around with an Armalite.

Personally I'd stay indoors then.

Are you serious ???? :roll::loopy:

I posted that 5 years ago !!

It refered to the poor excuses people come up with to make things sound like "accidents" The case in question was where a man was found guilty of murder but he rejected the sentence pleading he was actually aiming at someone else, he claimed the child he shot was actually guilty of being in the way of his intended target.

Just found this on a site regarding legal use of Airgun's to dispose of "pest" birds

Yes and authorised persons are the landowner or anyone he or she authourises. Not some government quango and socialist committee. Just the person who's land it is and anyone they authorise.

Simples. :)

It may not be a definative text to you, as you state, but then please answer this, why do thousands of airgun hunters/shooters use this information in order to stay within the law?

Additionally, why would a forum dedicated to the sport of airgun shooting aim (pardon the pun) to put forum users off target (again pardon the pun)?

They only put people off that cannot understand what they are reading.

Read the page in detail again and again and you will see that it confirms what I have been saying.

It is not against the law to discharge a firearm on private property, even closer than 15m to a highway, so long as it doesn,t cause a nuisance etc. and that the pellet does not cross the boundary.

So forums dedicated to the sport/pastime of Airgun shooting/hunting are out to put people off just because they prefer to read paraphrased text making "legal-ese" more accessible to the layman? I don't think so!!

In relation to this, answer this please; why does the information I, and thousands of others, have accessed from sites relating to airgunning (forums through to RFD sites - that's Registered Firearms Dealers for the uninitiated) state that it's illegal to discharge an air weapon within the stated distances? Are you therefore saying the people responsible for this information, are unable to understand the text/wording of the Acts

Forum sites are run by individuals who have a wide range of knowledge and may overlook certain issues, however Firearms Dealers are required to have in-depth understanding of the Acts (including subsequent updates/superseding Acts) and abide by such.

.....

In relation to this, answer this please; why does the information I, and thousands of others, have accessed from sites relating to airgunning (forums through to RFD sites - that's Registered Firearms Dealers for the uninitiated) state that it's illegal to discharge an air weapon within the stated distances?

The site that you quoted does not say that.
It says that it is illegal whan causing nuisance etc.
I repeat. Read it.

.....
Are you therefore saying the people responsible for this information, are unable to understand the text/wording of the Acts
......

No.
I repeat. Many people reading that site would appear to be unable to understand what they are reading.

a catapult is a firearm...!!!!!!!!!!!! also you cant kill anything ifit does not kill it outright within something like 30 seconds.....this is classed as humane.................what do u think...

As birds can't expel intestinal gas, i've heard that mixing bread with calcium carbide can have effective results in pest control

The site that you quoted does not say that.
It says that it is illegal whan causing nuisance etc.
I repeat. Read it.



No.
I repeat. Many people reading that site would appear to be unable to understand what they are reading.

Please refresh my memory... Which site are you referring to? If this is Airgunforum then I have re-read it and the section I "cut and pasted" does not mention causing a nuisance. It states, when referring to dishcharging an airweapon " Firing an air weapon within 15m / 50ft of a public highway £1,000 fine." Again "cut and pasted" from Airgunforum.

From a RFD site (C&H Westons, Brighton) follow this link and please read - http://www.chweston.co.uk/acatalog/Airgun_Laws.html

From Airgunforum, http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/fprums/anything-airgun-related/76641-uk-airgun-law.html



This carries across the retail sector relating to Airgun sales, well at least the sites I frequent which are numerous, as well as the forum sites I visit.

The text is in plain English, easy to understand and not high-brow, making it more accessible to the average person.

As birds can't expel intestinal gas, i've heard that mixing bread with calcium carbide can have effective results in pest control

Have you tried suggesting it to the RPSCA?

wouldn't this whole argument about the legislation be solved with a link to the actual legislation?

Please refresh my memory... Which site are you referring to? If this is Airgunforum then I have re-read it and the section I "cut and pasted" does not mention causing a nuisance. It states, when referring to dishcharging an airweapon " Firing an air weapon within 15m / 50ft of a public highway £1,000 fine." ........

Will this do?

This text is copied directly from Airgunforum General Restrictions:
...............
2) It is an offence to discharge a firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway, if doing so would cause a nuisance or endangering the public
3) When shooting over private land it is an offence for the pellet to go beyond the boundary of the premises on which the gun is being used unless there is permission from the adjoining landowner.
....


None so blind ... etc.

The paraphrased reference to the fine within the same quote is for someone convicted of the offence which would require the nuisance/endangering to have been proven.

Firearms Act - 19:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1968/cukpga_19680027_en_3#pt1-pb4-l1g21

Highways Act - 161:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1980/cukpga_19800066_en_27#pt12-pb4-l1g225


2nd Opinion?
Try the Ramblers:
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/rights_of_way/knowledge_portal/advice_notes/shooting.htm#Shooting%20on%20or%20near%20a%20carri ageway

Just found this on a site regarding legal use of Airgun's to dispose of "pest" birds

Do you mean the council employ marksmen to kill corvides?

i think you can shoot them but i would have thought its not right in a residential area

Will this do?




None so blind ... etc.

The paraphrased reference to the fine within the same quote is for someone convicted of the offence which would require the nuisance/endangering to have been proven.

Firearms Act - 19:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1968/cukpga_19680027_en_3#pt1-pb4-l1g21

Highways Act - 161:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1980/cukpga_19800066_en_27#pt12-pb4-l1g225


2nd Opinion?
Try the Ramblers:
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/rights_of_way/knowledge_portal/advice_notes/shooting.htm#Shooting%20on%20or%20near%20a%20carri ageway

I am not so pig-headed to admit when I am in error, in this matter I concede. Although saying this, the Firearms Act does not make a clear enough statement relating to the discharging of airweapons. However, if you use the statute in conjunction with the Highways Act, then matters begin to clarify somewhat.

I should have gone to the BASC website for a definitive answer on this issue, which I did prior to viewing your last post. This gave me the answer to this extended debate.

cgksheff, you have my apologies... You have indeed a wealth of knowledge although your attitude smacks of greatly of sarcasm

Possible laws being broken are:

- discharging the firearm within 50ft of the centre of a public place (neighbours garden) or highway (includes a footpath) in a manner likely to cause a nuisance/endanger persons using that highway.

Could you provide a link :confused:

If he's shooting on his own land (or land over which he has control/permission), and no missiles travel beyond the boundary of his own land (or adjacent land, on which he has permission to shoot), then he's not breaking the law.

I think one guy with an air rifle wouldn't cause too much of a dent in the population of maggies

And me, with a couple of mouse traps, isn't going to make much of a dent in the population of mice, but that won't stop me using them, if I find I've got mice in my house.

If the general public have some sort of right or permission to be in a particular place, that is a public place and you are not allowed to have a loaded airgun in that place.

In this case, the air gun is not in a public place, so Section 19 doesn't apply.

Anyway, it is illegal to fire any type of firearm (including airguns) in built up areas, fact.

Link please :confused:

That does not prevent you from firing the weapon safely, within those premises, even if it is within 50ft of the centre of a Highway

Otherwise, I couldn't shoot an air gun inside my own home, and many gun clubs couldn't use their indoor ranges.

Otherwise, I couldn't shoot an air gun inside my own home, and many gun clubs couldn't use their indoor ranges.

In addition to my previous last message, you can discharge your air weapon within your house/garden etc but if the projectile were to ricochet and hit someone then you will break the law!!!

Magpies are considered to be vermin and can legally be killed.

Magpies and the law

Magpies are fully protected by the European Union Birds Directive. The UK Government has derogated (made an exception) from the Directive in relation to control of magpies.

Under annual general licence issued under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (for which it is not necessary to apply individually), magpies may be killed or taken by ‘authorised persons’, using permitted methods, for the purposes of:

* preventing serious damage to agricultural crops or livestock
* preserving public health/air safety
* conserving wild birds.

An ‘authorised person’ is a landowner or occupier, or someone acting with the landowner’s or occupier’s permission.

Legal control methods
The RSPB does not oppose legal, site-specific control of magpies, as long as control does not threaten the conservation status of the species. The RSPB is seeking to develop non-lethal methods of controlling crows (including magpies) on its reserves.

The Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust will advise on the use of the Larsen trap. This is a wire cage trap with a spring-loaded door, designed to catch the bird alive. It can be baited with food, or with a live decoy magpie. This is legal as long as the decoy bird is humanely treated and given food and water daily.

The trap must be checked regularly, at least every 24 hrs. Any magpie or crow caught may be humanely destroyed. Any non-target species must be released. Further information is available from the Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust, Fordingbridge, Hampshire (Tel: 01425 652381).

Magpies may be shot, again only by a landowner or someone acting with the landowner’s permission, for the purposes outlined above. Shooting must be well away from public roads and houses, so is seldom possible in urban areas.

It is also legal to destroy a magpie nest, even if it is in use. However, old magpie nests are often used by protected species, such as long-eared owls in rural areas and blackbirds in suburban areas, so check very carefully first.

Last modified: 08 June 2009

The question was can magpies be shot? The answer is yes as they are vermin along with crows, pigeons and others. Where they are shot from is another question. Have you seen magpies kill baby birds they don't stand a chance.

Shooting magpies is just a way for small, insignificant people to feel big and powerful. Pretending that they're doing it to save other birds is nonsense.

"The magpie is simply a scapegoat," says Andre Farrar, a spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds.

The number of songbirds such as sparrows, starlings, and skylarks in Britain has indeed declined by more than half over the past 25 years. In contrast, magpie numbers have risen to nearly 1.3m, partly because of a lack of gamekeeping after the second world war and partly because the birds have become more attuned to suburban living, increasing their numbers in towns and cities. "Because they're visible birds, it's a very perceptible increase," says Farrar.

There is no doubt magpies are killing other birds - they are predators after all and eating other birds' eggs and young comes naturally. But none of this adds up to a smoking gun. "It is unfortunate for the magpie's own PR that it does it rather publicly and rather obviously that attracts attention to it."

Whether the magpie's predatory instinct is actually having adverse effects on songbird populations is doubtful. Indeed, the real reasons for the declines of songbirds in Britain are many and varied.

"Take the example of skylarks, a ground-nesting bird that could potentially be vulnerable to magpie predation," says Farrar. "The reason for decline of skylarks is the switch from spring-sown to winter-sown cereals, so the crop is too high for the birds to nest in. So they don't produce enough young, so their population falls. The solution is measures to introduce spaces within the crop where the birds could find food."

In fact, since the second world war, the way that 70% of Britain's land surface is managed has changed, erasing habitats and meaning that many native birds have found it difficult to cope.

wow you still goin on about this 5 years after it started :loopy:

ps large font size not cool :|

Describing any font size as cool or not...not cool :|

I said good on your neighbour, I've thought about it myself, I get sick of having to clean the crap off my car, it's toxic and kills your paint!! Anything that craps something that bad should be shot.

I said good on your neighbour, I've thought about it myself, I get sick of having to clean the crap off my car, it's toxic and kills your paint!! Anything that craps something that bad should be shot.

I say the same every time I go in the works toilets.

An air rifle that is more powerful than 12 ft lb, (16.25J) is classed as a firearm.

Most are under this figure and are therefore not firearms

No, if it's more than 12ft lb it a part 1 firearm requiring a FAC, if its bellow 1ft lb then it not a firearm.

Air gun fall under the firearms act if powered above 1ft lb.

Why this is debate I don't know as it bound by the same rules.

The rspb does suggest other deterrents.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/magpies/magpies.aspx

Although I would have thought maying the noise of a rook or crow to scare off magpies would be more annoying than shooting them.

The magpies in my garden peck at the grass trying to eat worms.

Being 'interested in wildlife' is *not* killing it because it eats something else! What next? Is he going to start on sparrowhawks or kestrels? It's nature - I love the birds in my garden and I don't like it when magpies and sparrowhawks carry them off but that's the circle of life isn't it? There's a balance in these things. And despite all the opinions on here, leaning out of your bedroom window firing an air rifle doesn't sound like its within the law to me. As one or two people have mentioned, why not just ask the police?

Living in Canada, one might say that I don't have a right to enter into a discussion about the rightness or wrongness of a local situation. But, I'll argue that there is a more general principle at stake here. In any ecosystem, urban included, there are predators and prey. As Irene correctly points out, nature has a way of striking a balance. People should leave the animals alone. Near where I live there are bald eagles, ospreys, hawks and owls. A while ago, I saw a hawk eating a small bird on my back porch. I just took a photo of it. That's how carnivores live. So, if the man with the airgun were a true lover of nature, he'd leave the magpies alone.

As for the idea of noisemakers to scare away birds, this is another example of human intervention making matters worse. In the community adjacent to where I live, there is a huge flock (actually, "murder" is the collective noun) of crows. They make an awful racket in the summertime, but they are a tourist attraction. City council came up with the bright idea of using those noisemakers and surprise, surprise, they all moved en masse to an adjacent neighbourhood, simply transplanting what the residents saw as a problem. Wildlife biologists had advised against this foolish idea from the get-go.

It's a bloody magpie! big woop a few have got shot . pull yourself together!

He should not be letting off firearm in garden, accidents can happen, suppose he blinded somebody - ring 101 and ask advice

Shooting in gardens happens many thousands of times every day all over the country,all with in the law,and quite a lot of it in full knowledge of the police,
no biggie at all,
More injury's happen due to trips caused by loose socks,

Go browse any of the shooting forums on the net and have a good read,

JJ..

Shooting in gardens happens many thousands of times every day all over the country,all with in the law,and quite a lot of it in full knowledge of the police,
no biggie at all,
More injury's happen due to trips caused by loose socks,

Go browse any of the shooting forums on the net and have a good read,

JJ..

Where did you get those statistics, Enid Blytons headstone.

This is getting too complicated so he you go.
An air gun under 12ft lb 18yrs old or over and projectile stays within your land its legal to shoot vermin or permitted quarry.
Over 12 ft lb needs firearms certificate and can only be shot on farmland rifle range with permission etc.
Different pellet weights change velocity so guns should ideally be around 11.5ft lb to make sure it wont go above.
The police can and will test your gun with as many pellets as they can to try to get it over 12 and if it is you can face lengthy vacations at her majesty's pleasure.

All info you ever need can be found here (http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/forums/anything-airgun-related/76641-uk-airgun-law.html)

:hihi:just get your gun out and shoot it:hihi:

Possible laws being broken are:

- discharging the firearm within 50ft of the centre of a public place (neighbours garden) or highway (includes a footpath) in a manner likely to cause a nuisance/endanger persons using that highway.

- if they are tenants, it is likely that they are breaking terms of their tenancy agreement and will therefore not be "authorised".

its a air rifle not a firearm, so as long as the pellets dont srtay off his land there is no crime at all

Heck, if you dislike birds enough to risk getting banged up save yourself all the bother and get a cat. :D

:D


John:D

Some people make it as hard as possible for people to do things the right way, so dont blame the bloke for shooting birds on his own land blame the muppets who casue him to have to shoot on his garden.,

This is getting too complicated so he you go.
An air gun under 12ft lb 18yrs old or over and projectile stays within your land its legal to shoot vermin or permitted quarry.
Over 12 ft lb needs firearms certificate and can only be shot on farmland rifle range with permission etc.
Different pellet weights change velocity so guns should ideally be around 11.5ft lb to make sure it wont go above.
The police can and will test your gun with as many pellets as they can to try to get it over 12 and if it is you can face lengthy vacations at her majesty's pleasure.

Also an airgun cannot be fired within 50ft of a public road which many gardens are. If he is shooting upward toward the Magpie in flight or perched in a tree, this is insufficient to make sure the round doesn't leave his land and is breaking the law. He must be shooting at quarry with a substantial backstop (ie, a wall or the ground).

its a air rifle not a firearm, so as long as the pellets dont srtay off his land there is no crime at all

UK law considers all air weapons firearms and can be met with lethal force, although an FAC license is only required for rifles over 12ft/lbs power.