View Full Version : News both sides of the Atlantic..


back2basics
05-08-2005, 17:39
One of the reasons I read SF these days is to see what’s going on over there and see what people are thinking about certain subjects. This is long but there is a point and a question at the bottom.

I know the "Downing Street Memos" made news in the UK. For those who do not know, leaked documents that showed that Blair and Bush were fixing the intelligence round their objectives.

They also seemed to imply, that they were going to provoke Saddam in to attacking our planes. Blair denied that. But a Times reporter who moved to the U.S has just uncovered this...

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo021127/text/21127w18.htm

Notice it's an official document, you will notice that after 9/11 Saddam cut down their targeting of allied planes from hundreds a month to just 32. In the same period, bombing runs by allied planes went up a huge amount, seemingly confirming the policy laid out in the downing street memos. (you can see copies of the documents here http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/), but Blair has confirmed they are real.

So this basically tells us that a year prior to the war, when people both sides of the Atlantic were being told War was not inevitable, Blair and Bush were trying to make out Saddam was more of a threat, and at the same time provoking Saddam in to attacking our planes (by bombing without provocation), a sort of unofficial war, which would not only be illegal by international standards, but would be illegal in both America and England as in both countries they need the support of Parliament/Senate which they did not have at that time. (Summary here http://rawstory.com/news/2005/British_U.S._justification_for_increased_prewar_bo mbing_foun_0804.html).

On top of that, right now the Whitehouse is being investigated by a special prosecutor. A reporter is in jail for not giving the courts her sources. It revolves around the "yellow cake" documents. The ones used by Powel in the U.N to play up Iraq's nuclear ambitions. They were found to be fake, and prior to going to the U.N an agent told the Whitehouse they were fake, but they used them to scare people anyway. This guy Wilson, for his efforts, had his wife who was an undercover CIA agent outed in the press. He is saying it was payback for writing an article stating the intelligence was wrong. So at the moment the Whitehouse is being investigated for its role in outing a CIA agent, which is illegal. It’s actually been confirmed as one of the reporters who received her name, and worked for Time Magazine confirmed that when he was in front of the court he testified that he did have the CIA agent identified by the Whitehouse. A man named Karl Rove is at the center of this so far. Indictments are expected, and it is said the investigation is wide ranging and includes the faulty intelligence that took us to war. Here is a good piece on that (http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1083924,00.html).

At the moment polls show that the majority of America believes Bush lied (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050805/ap_on_el_pr/bush_ap_ipsos_poll_3).

Still reading? Good the point is, one of the other threads made me realize there is much that is happening over here in the Media that you guys are not hearing about. Has anybody heard of any of this at all in the UK Media?

owdlad
05-08-2005, 17:46
Thanks for sharing that with us back2, a lot of very thought provoking articles there, and no doubt that some will already have seen them but they are new to me.

Sierra
05-08-2005, 19:35
Originally posted by back2basics
On top of that, right now the Whitehouse is being investigated by a special prosecutor. A reporter is in jail for not giving the courts her sources. It revolves around the "yellow cake" documents. The ones used by Powel in the U.N to play up Iraq's nuclear ambitions. They were found to be fake, and prior to going to the U.N an agent told the Whitehouse they were fake, but they used them to scare people anyway. This guy Wilson, for his efforts, had his wife who was an undercover CIA agent outed in the press. He is saying it was payback for writing an article stating the intelligence was wrong. So at the moment the Whitehouse is being investigated for its role in outing a CIA agent, which is illegal. It’s actually been confirmed as one of the reporters who received her name, and worked for Time Magazine confirmed that when he was in front of the court he testified that he did have the CIA agent identified by the Whitehouse. A man named Karl Rove is at the center of this so far. Indictments are expected, and it is said the investigation is wide ranging and includes the faulty intelligence that took us to war. Here is a good piece on that (http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1083924,00.html).

At the moment polls show that the majority of America believes Bush lied (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050805/ap_on_el_pr/bush_ap_ipsos_poll_3).

Still reading? Good the point is, one of the other threads made me realize there is much that is happening over here in the Media that you guys are not hearing about. Has anybody heard of any of this at all in the UK Media?

I certainly cannot speak for the UK media. But the other stuff you are talking about is OLD news in the states. Like almost two years ago. Nothing much came of it. I guess there's a few foreign news agencies who have just now heard about this alleged "crime", and are beating that dead horse for all it's worth. Anything to make Dubya look bad.

Old news article

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089017/

And a newer one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A2305-2005Jan11

John Kerry did the same thing. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/14/225202.shtml

Look, the CIA "agent" in question was actually the wife of the Nigerian ambassador. That's a low profile job, huh?! She wasn't undercover, and hadn't been a covert agent for almost two years prior to her being "outed". Quite a few people already knew she worked for the CIA, including her neighbors.

She supposedly sent her hubby, the ambassador, to meet with the local despots, grease a few palms, and find out if Saddam Hussein had been trying to buy "yellow cake" uranium from Niger.

Does that make sense? Sending the Nigerian ambassador to get this information would be like sending a uniformed cop to the prom and having him ask the kids where he could buy drugs. Hello? NO ONE tells diplomats the truth. The whole purpose of an ambassador is to absorb bullsh*t so the real players can work behind the scenes.

I'm sorry, not only is this probably not a crime, (unless you think they got a taxpayer funded Nigerian holiday for free) it's really not even news. Frankly, I wish they'd at least charge that pompous windbag Karl Rove with double parking. They could at least make him pay a fine for that.

And the yahoo news article you linked to is pure anti-Bush garbage.

"Approval of Bush's handling of Iraq, which had been hovering in the low- to mid-40s most of the year, dipped to 38 percent. Midwesterners and young women and men with a high school education or less were most likely to abandon Bush on his handling of Iraq in the last six months."

Let's see. Midwesterners automatically=RED states. At least to those who thinks they know ALL about the US, but really don't have a clue it does. High school education or less? Are we talking dropouts here?

Excuse me, but I thought that these were the people non-Americans believe ELECTED BUSH IN THE FIRST PLACE! Why would they turn against him now? Does anyone know that this is GWB's FINAL TERM?!! He cannot be relected, his political career is OVER (unless you count making speeches at universities for $100,000 a pop, like Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter) and it really doesn't matter what he does from here on out.

Know what I think? I think these yahoo "poll takers" asked Bob Bookie and his cousin Weenie, who were standing around on the street corner in Pascagoula, Mississippi what they thought about Bush's handling of the war in Iraq. Then called it a day, and went back to the motel to swim in the pool.

Sierra

back2basics
05-08-2005, 20:02
Sierra it's the judge that will determine if it is a crime. The crime is actually outing an undercover agent and the CIA have confirmed that she was undercover, so your facts are wrong there. In fact you should have been able to work that out, because if she wasn't undercover you would be correct, no crime... so why is Fitzgerald still looking in to it? Roves aides were only in front of the judge last week. So yeah there must be no crime, and they are just wasting time.

BTW Plames boss asked her to write the letter about her husbands credentials.

Let me explain how this works. It's an investigation, and they don't happen over night. So while the leak happened a few years ago, the investigation is just comeing to a close. Thats how investigations work. But the reason it's not old news, is because the investigation is still happening... i.e they still have a case, or they would have ended the speculation. Only a few weeks ago Wilson had his testamony, and we still have a witness in prison, so it's going to be old news for a few more months yet.

Yes the young and uneducated have been the Bush strong hold, they have consistently supported Bush. Red states are the least educated, highest crime rates, highest divorce rates, subsidized by the tax payer the most and they (until now) have believed Iraq was linked to 9/11. I guess it's all a vast left wing conspiracy, right?

So yeah old news, just your version of events is about 4 months old now, keep up! :)

P.S you saw Novak yesterday right? Looking a bit worried, did you notice the Who's who book on the table? The book he says he found the name from (now). Old news all right.

P.P.S The yahoo article is a assosiated press article, so it will be everywhere, CNN.com, Tribune etc. Not known for being very anti Bush. And 77% beleive Bush is being dishonest about the Plame leak.. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/03/opinion/polls/main713832.shtml

Phanerothyme
31-03-2007, 00:55
I certainly cannot speak for the UK media. But the other stuff you are talking about is OLD news in the states. ...

She supposedly sent her hubby, the ambassador, to meet with the local despots, grease a few palms, and find out if Saddam Hussein had been trying to buy "yellow cake" uranium from Niger.

Does that make sense? Sending the Nigerian ambassador to get this information would be like sending a uniformed cop to the prom and having him ask the kids where he could buy drugs. Hello? NO ONE tells diplomats the truth. The whole purpose of an ambassador is to absorb bullsh*t so the real players can work behind the scenes.

I'm sorry, not only is this probably not a crime, (unless you think they got a taxpayer funded Nigerian holiday for free) it's really not even news. Frankly, I wish they'd at least charge that pompous windbag Karl Rove with double parking. They could at least make him pay a fine for that.

I'd charge him with crimes against music... see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxcuVlCuX9Y if you haven't already been subjected to it on the networks!

Turns out Yellowcake was a lie, they got called on it and Rove's office broke the law in their revenge outing of the CIA agent....

Libby may yet escape with the help of expensive legal shenanigans of course, but it's plain to see the lengths to which the administration will go, presuming the law exists only for others.

This is a pandemic problem.