I've noticed quite a few extreme right wing views cropping up on the forum - usually "disguised" as people's post signatures or similar.

I think it's absolutely deplorable that these bigotted, unbalanced and dangerous views are allowed here. This isn't a stage for propaganda - the forum should be moderate *and* moderated.

I'm all for informed discussion, but people quoting Hitler in their signatures and/or white supremacist nonsense is just unacceptable! What's next? Swastika avatars?

Of course, it goes without saying that extreme left views would also be just as unacceptable! I'm not a fence sitter, or anything like it, but I know just how dangerous extremism can be.

There are other discussion boards for extremists on the internet, I suggest these people find a new home there.

If all the extremists left this place would be a lot less interesting.

I think the Mods have a very hard job of controlling extreme views, while trying to keep the forum open and balanced. The one thing that you will find is that when extreme right wing views are posted, they are usually pulled to pieces by most people. In fact the far right people are particularly good at pulling their own opinions to pieces with the use of contradictions. It's really quite amusing. You can tell when their argument has fallen apart, because they start posting insults that will include the terms 'do gooder', 'tree hugger', 'leftie' etc...

Yes, or they start railing against the imaginary 10-headed gorgon of "the PC brigade" or "PC gone mad".

There is a lot of white-supremacist horse-sh*t on here, but I suppose people are entitled to express what they think... it just gets a little tedious after a while

I think there should be some rules, like not quoting anything in sigs that might offend others.

Seeing as though we're not allowed to say which pubs have 17 year olds in just in case the forum gets sued, it's odd that we *are* allowed to stir up racial tension. Marvellous.

I do agree that right wingers usually end up contradicting themselves. Take for example one forum member who's from a country THAT WAS INVADED BY HITLER and where a lot of people were killed, and yet they complain about immigrants, and are happy to take BNP literature back to their country of origin? Errr...... surely the point of the BNP is to keep Britain british? Although that's a load of fetid dingo's kidneys as well....

Hang on, if they're so dead set against immigrants and they're in immigrant themselves...... *sigh*

It just doesn't work, does it?

My favourites are the foaming right-wingers who come out with the same old folderol about the left-wingers and the tree-hugging do-gooders being up in arms about a situation before anyone left of centre has even commented!

The issue could be anything from the nuclear obbliteration of the human race to an argument over a disabled parking space and the issue for them is not what's being discussed, but the reaction that they invent for the left-wingers!:hihi:

Originally posted by Carmine
The issue could be anything from the nuclear obbliteration of the human race to an argument over a disabled parking space and the issue for them is not what's being discussed, but the reaction that they invent for the left-wingers!:hihi:

Very true!

You'd think the right-wingers would get tired of making the same assumptions every day of 'do-gooders' but they never do.

I'd ask them to all grow up, but they're all over 80 years of age anyway.

Originally posted by Abdul
You'd think the right-wingers would get tired of making the same assumptions every day of 'do-gooders' but they never do.
Ah, but therein lieth the problem...most extreme viewpoints are based on assumptions rather than contemporary facts and experience.

What I find particularly annoying is the way the words 'racism' and 'racist' are bandied about on this forum, often on the slightest pretext and sometimes for no discernible reason at all, except for petty point scoring or to shut people up rather than engage in a reasoned and informed discussion of sensitive issues. These words are being used now as verbal cudgels (like the words 'fascism' and 'fascist'), particularly by politically correct tramline thinkers, who have no interest in discussing anything which is likely to challenge their puerile opinions and simplistic dogmas and who appear to think that sloganeering is a substitute for reasoned argument.

I hate racism, and equally anti-racism laws (which I think serve to create more tenstion between the races).

In this day and age, it's not easy for a white person to have anything to do with a coloured person, for fear of anything they do or say being mis-construed as racist.

Does that make me racist?

Originally posted by Jamie
I hate racism, and equally anti-racism laws (which I think serve to create more tenstion between the races).

In this day and age, it's not easy for a white person to have anything to do with a coloured person, for fear of anything they do or say being mis-construed as racist.

Does that make me racist?
In a word, no.

Originally posted by LordChaverly
These words are being used now as verbal cudgels (like the words 'fascism' and 'fascist'), particularly by politically correct tramline thinkers, who have no interest in discussing anything which is likely to challenge their puerile opinions and simplistic dogmas and who appear to think that sloganeering is a substitute for reasoned argument.

And I suppose the usual response is to deride these people as:

lefty dogooders

PC brigade

or even politically correct tramline thinkers

:?

my opinion based on mr chris' post is that he is doing the one thing you should never do - he is assuming.
assuming that all extreme views are all extreme right wing opposed to his left wing views.
assuming 'cos they don't match his opinions we're all unbalanced.
wether due to racial intolerance or purely intolerance of our society people should be entitled to express an opinion unles they are specifically inciting others - antagonising does not qualify as incitement.
neither is taunting.

As a general rule I'm not keen on anyone who's anti anything...

...much better to be positive about something.


Anti free speech is particularly worrying...

...if a post is offensive, I'm sure the mod's will deal with it*, otherwise, let it be.

:mad:




Edit to add
* If they are made aware of the contentious post, if in doubt report it, and let them be the judge.

Originally posted by Abdul
And I suppose the usual response is to deride these people as:

lefty dogooders

PC brigade

or even politically correct tramline thinkers

:?

Well, I would certainly be in favour of a moratorium on verbal mud slinging. There are of course faults on both sides. However, there have been many cases on this forum where a well argued and well informed challenge to conventional wisdoms has been met with responses of the kind mentioned above. I would also suggest that the terms 'racist' and racism' have a much stronger impact as verbal cudgels, not only because they are so laden with emotive meaning (unlike the terms you mention) but also because they now have legal and occupational implications. In this sense they have become like the words 'heretic' or 'kulak' or suchlike in previous eras. In comparison, the terms 'pc brigade' or 'lefty do gooders' have a jocular ring to them.

From a mod point of view here - but my personal opinion rather than any sort of forum policy!

Firstly - we have 14,699 members and around a dozen mods, from a logistical point of view I'm sure you can see that we can't possibly be erverywhere at once and so we rely on the members of the forum to report things that they aren't happy with (remember is't your forum not ours!) Starting a thread about a problem does not mean it will be addressed anytime soon as it will have to be found, read etc. However if you hit the report post button a message will be sent to the mod collective and we will look at it and sort it out ASAP!

Secondly - the forum is as far as possible apolitical (obviously the mods have political views so it can;t be entirely apolitical but we try) so we will not remove posts/threads/sigs on the basis that they don't agree with someones political views but only if they are so extreme as to be inflamatory and offensive.

it's quite easy to preach left wing views or even right wing views on a forum but in practice how many of us actually practice what we preach.

i have a few friends who are not white - their colour is totally irrelevant to me.

i never ever refer to our local corner chops as the "pa**" shop regardless of the fact that everyone else i know does.

i have never made a verbal comment in private or otherwise about the driving skill of someone & their colour, & i know several "tree huggers" & bleeding heart liberals who often exclaim stupid XXXXX idiot when they'e been cut up .

am i racist no -
am i prejudiced - potentially yes but that may not be due to skin colour - everyone is prejudiced.
do i think that illegal immigrants sould be sent home- yes.
now if those opinions make me unbalanced & bigotted then god help the sanity of the world.

Sometimes people are too swift to criticise and dismiss the views of some of our more right-winged members of the Forum. In particular I have a lot of time for Royjames, who in my opinion is not afraid to tackle the serious issues on immigration that our country has and air his views. Whilst I don't agree with every opinion he holds and certainly am not on the same point on the political spectrum, I don't believe his right to express opinions and views should be curbed simply because they're not populist.
Some forum members are all to quick to band around terms such as "racist" when people air a view about ethnicity that is different to their own. The Tory party fell foul of these types of people at the last General Election when they attempted to tackle the issues surrounding immigration. But why shouldn't we talk about it? Why should it be a 'no go' issue? It really isn't racist to say that strict quotas should be imposed on the numbers we allow into this country- it's just common sense and more to the point, the reason we have border controls and passports.

One must remember that one person's brand of extremism is another person's brand of liberalism. In short, people are different and as such, views will inevitably differ. For me, I value diversity - not only in terms of ethnicity but also in that of views. Far from being just modicum, extremist views can add an invaluable dynamic to debate and promote cogent discussion. If we adopt the hardline approach that you suggest we risk losing the fabric of the online community that we have established. Then we would be stuck discussing BB6, Jordan's wardrobe and Slimsid's infatuation with the female derriere.

I think that the moderating / co-admin team do a great job of relieving the Forum of offending content. Theirs is often a thankless task and yet they seem to strike the balance between moderation and censorship very well indeed.

Purely from an information management standing point I believe we should be presented with a wide range of views so that we can then construct our own informed conclusions. If we expunge the views of the minority simply because they don't fit with our own we're forming conclusions based on ignorance and I, for one would not feel at ease doing so.

Originally posted by nick2
If all the extremists left this place would be a lot less interesting.

I agree. After following the forum for a couple of months it's clear to me that there are some people who have a reflex "hang 'em, flog 'em, send 'em back" response to any given issue, some others who have an equally unconsidered PC/liberal reaction, and others, like Nick, who treat issues on their merits and sometimes come up with unexpected, often irreverent ideas. This seems like a healthy combination.

Personally I find it helpful for people to post stuff that I disagree with as it helps me to firm up my ideas, decide exactly why it is that I disagree.

The bottom line is that it's down to the moderators to determine what is or isn't acceptable, same as any forum.

I dont think we do have a problem with racism on this forum, i think its a well balanced forum, and after all its getting other peoples views on things that make it so intresting, i never like to assum about anyone, id rather see them as a individual and if i dont like what they say etc, i say my point - and hope that they accept my view. I hate racism, and anti-racism laws, having free speech is our right.
I dont belive in trying to make someone belive my views eaither, we have a choice, to listen or to ignore.

Originally posted by JonJParr
Sometimes people are too swift to criticise and dismiss the views of some of our more right-winged members of the Forum. In particular I have a lot of time for Royjames, who in my opinion is not afraid to tackle the serious issues on immigration that our country has and air his views. Whilst I don't agree with every opinion he holds and certainly am not on the same point on the political spectrum, I don't believe his right to express opinions and views should be curbed simply because they're not populist.
Some forum members are all to quick to band around terms such as "racist" when people air a view about ethnicity that is different to their own. The Tory party fell foul of these types of people at the last General Election when they attempted to tackle the issues surrounding immigration. But why shouldn't we talk about it? Why should it be a 'no go' issue? It really isn't racist to say that strict quotas should be imposed on the numbers we allow into this country- it's just common sense and more to the point, the reason we have border controls and passports.

One must remember that one person's extremism is another person's liberalism. In short, people are different and as such, views will inevitably differ. For me, I value diversity - not only in terms of ethnicity but also in that of views. Far from being just modicum, extremist views can add an invaluable dynamic to debate and promote cogent discussion. If we adopt the hardline approach that you suggest we risk losing the fabric of the online community that we have established. Then we would be stuck discussing BB6, Jordan's wardrobe and Slimsid's infatuation with the female derriere.

I think that the moderating / co-admin team do a great job of relieving the Forum of offending content. Theirs is often a thankless task and yet they seem to strike the balance between moderation and censorship very well indeed.

Purely from an information management standing point I believe we should be presented with a wide range of views so that we can then construct our own informed conclusions. If we expunge the views of the minority simply because they don't fit with our own we're forming conclusions based on ignorance and I, for one would not feel at ease doing so.
I agree...now back to the childish name-calling.

Originally posted by mr_chris
I think there should be some rules, like not quoting anything in sigs that might offend others.

Seeing as though we're not allowed to say which pubs have 17 year olds in just in case the forum gets sued, it's odd that we *are* allowed to stir up racial tension. Marvellous.

I do agree that right wingers usually end up contradicting themselves. Take for example one forum member who's from a country THAT WAS INVADED BY HITLER and where a lot of people were killed, and yet they complain about immigrants, and are happy to take BNP literature back to their country of origin? Errr...... surely the point of the BNP is to keep Britain british? Although that's a load of fetid dingo's kidneys as well....

Hang on, if they're so dead set against immigrants and they're in immigrant themselves...... *sigh*

It just doesn't work, does it?

I can see who you refer to Mr Chris and i dont find it quite amsuing to read it from this poster.

However, i am with madowl in that i cant see a problem with racism. Both sides can be equally quick to jump on each other with the right-wingers using the term do goodies and PC brigade but also the left-wingers are quick to shout racism.

I think this forum would be a lot less interesting if we lost many of the views and i like to read views from both sides.

Originally posted by willman
m
assuming that all extreme views are all extreme right wing opposed to his left wing views.

Errr, didn't I mention how left wing extremism is just as bad?

It's nice to know that the forum is represented by a diverse group of people, but one person's freedom of speech is another person's propaganda (to paraphrase a previous comment).

Fascism, like communism *is* unbalanced. It *is* bigoted because it's at the extreme of the political scale. I'm no liberal fence sitter, but having suffered racial abuse at school because part of family happens to be Jewish... Racism is just one of those things that is never justifiable!

youwhatref - not quite sure I follow you? You don't find it amusing to read as it was posted by me?

Originally posted by mr_chris


Racism is just one of those things that is never justifiable!

me?
so we're all on the same wavelength.
i do unfortunately feel though that we can all cite references re:racial prejudice both for & against.

it's all worth it just to see them use 'words' like racialist and racialism.

Originally posted by mr_chris
...one person's freedom of speech is another person's propaganda...
...and one persons well intentioned censorship is an others oppression...

...the question is who decides where to "draw the line"...

...and in this case the answer is clearly the mod team, not you, thankfully.

For the most part they do a very good and well-balanced job, and continue to have my support in this respect.

Well-done mod's.

:thumbsup:

Please excuse me for using naff expressions, I've been out of touch and don't know the latest buzzwords

Back in the 80's and 90's the term PC Brigade was bandied about a lot, there seemed to be a lot of muddied thinking around at the time and unfortunately a lot of naff decisions regarding racism, fascism,etc were made at the time.

The reason I used such an unpardonably out of date expression is because we seem to still be paying the price of some of those er...politically correct decisions

The only thing I'm really curious about however.....please somebody enlighten me if they can?

Does Haringey Council still use grey bin-liners?

probably & i bet they use a white board.

Most likely!

It just seems to me there wasn't as much racially directed abuse around before all that nonsense started

Originally posted by mr_chris
I've noticed quite a few extreme right wing views cropping up on the forum - usually "disguised" as people's post signatures or similar.

I think it's absolutely deplorable that these bigotted, unbalanced and dangerous views are allowed here. This isn't a stage for propaganda - the forum should be moderate *and* moderated.

I'm all for informed discussion, but people quoting Hitler in their signatures and/or white supremacist nonsense is just unacceptable! What's next? Swastika avatars?

Of course, it goes without saying that extreme left views would also be just as unacceptable! I'm not a fence sitter, or anything like it, but I know just how dangerous extremism can be.

There are other discussion boards for extremists on the internet, I suggest these people find a new home there.

Chris,

If you see posts that offend you, report them, like other users do.

The user with the offensive signature was reported this morning and the user has been banned. The signature will also be removed.

And we've pulled a few avatars before most users ever saw them.

We work hard to achieve what we view as a balance between freedom of expression and civilised behaviour.

The best way to help us is to raise the offending posts / signatures with us by using the 'Report' link on every posting.

Thanks,

Joe

Could Mr Chris give one or two examples of the kind of thing he finds offensive. I'm not sure if he is saying that any critisism of mulit-culturalism should be banned or if just certain types of comments should.

I think this thread has moved away little from the original point made which didn't comment upon peoples posts but specifically their signatures.

The original point made was that users should not be allowed to use their signatures to celebrate the most extreme fascism and racism going and this has clearly been happening

Our_heritage signature used to be a quote about the need to fight a race war taken from a convicted terrorist. http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/numbers_14words.asp

Craigmason's avatar used to be the symbol for the KKK.

And then of course their was the user DSMRD whose name was an acronym for the revisionist text: Did Six Million Really Die.

I'm not anti free speech but I'm anti members using their signatures to celebrate groups like the KKK and make grossly anti-Semitic and incredibly offensive statements.

Some words of assurance to the original poster however this isn't a reflection of Sheffield's population but merely a result of certain users visiting other white supremacy forums and urging their users to register here and help "fight their corner".

And in the case of Craigmason using the KKK symbol the mods did take action as you can see for yourself: http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=523062#post523062

thanks for that disco - i mean it.
if you hadn't made me aware of the 14 bit would never have known,obviously i 've only seen craig's palm tree.

it's surprising what you don't notice at times.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
I think this thread has moved away little from the original point made which didn't comment upon peoples posts but specifically their signatures...
When I read the original post I certainly didn't think it was restricting its criticism to just sig's (see below)...

...and anyway, the discussion so far has been applicable to either case, so...

:confused:



For reference:
Originally posted by mr_chris
I've noticed quite a few extreme right wing views cropping up on the forum - usually "disguised" as people's post signatures or similar.

I think it's absolutely deplorable that these bigotted, unbalanced and dangerous views are allowed here. This isn't a stage for propaganda - the forum should be moderate *and* moderated...

Originally posted by foo_fighter
When I read the original post I certainly didn't think it was restricting its criticism to just sig's (see below)...



Sorry my mistake, but think it' important to clarify that using fascist symbolism in their sigs/avatars is a way for certain users to make all their posts utterly offensive even if they are merely discussing that they work in Chesterfield B&Q.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
...but think it' important to clarify that using fascist symbolism in their sigs/avatars is a way for certain users to make all their posts utterly offensive even if they are merely discussing that they work in Chesterfield B&Q.
In total agreement with you there D_C, any "offensive" material should be reported to the mod' team, along with an explanation (in case they don't know the "symbolism")...

...and then appropriate action can be taken.

:)

:o :o :o :) :( ;) :heyhey:

I'm confused about the racist meaning of a palmtree.

To be fair to the mods they have had loads to put up with in the last few months. The run up to the election and the ill fated politics forum must have done their heads in.

I think we need to clearly differentiate between users whose posts have a content and opinions some of us may disagree with (Timo) and users whose posts contain their celebration of racist murder and terrorism (Craig Mason) which hopefully everyone finds offensive and would like to see removed.

Originally posted by nick2
I'm confused about the racist meaning of a palmtree.

Their isn't one. Craig was forced to change his sig to a palm tree after he originally chose the KKK logo.

Course I'm only guessing what he uses his palm for......:o

To be fair to Craig he isn't the brightest member of the master race and he could have just used the KKK symbol because he liked it's prettiness.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
I think we need to clearly differentiate between users whose posts have a content and opinions some of us may disagree with (Timo) and users whose posts contain their celebration of racist murder and terrorism (Craig Mason) which hopefully everyone finds offensive and would like to see removed.

Absolutely, I find the balanced well-argued right(ish)-wing posts from members like LordChav, JohnJParr, fareast, Timo et al educational and interesting, even if I don't agree with them. It just becomes a bit tiresome when some of the more hate-mongering forum members hijack these arguments and turn the threads into offensive diatribes.

Originally posted by Bully_Beef
It just becomes a bit tiresome when some of the more hate-mongering forum members hijack these arguments and turn the threads into offensive diatribes.

I think the last such thread was removed after Disco_Cats outburst that went way beyond what most of the "hatemongers" had said in the thread.

Originally posted by Abdul
Very true!

You'd think the right-wingers would get tired of making the same assumptions every day of 'do-gooders' but they never do.

I'd ask them to all grow up, but they're all over 80 years of age anyway. oh abdul,you shouldnt cheek your elders :smile: and remember,with age comes wisdom :banana:

Ummm....

Just a teensy warning - as is known by most forum members we won't put up with personal abuse - irrespective of the views of the person being abused.

Thanks.

Joe

Originally posted by nick2
I think the last such thread was removed after Disco_Cats outburst that went way beyond what most of the "hatemongers" had said in the thread.

Sorry, I shouldn't brand anyone with words like "hate-monger".
What exactly is your point though, Nick2?

Originally posted by Bully_Beef
Sorry, I shouldn't brand anyone with words like "hate-monger".
What exactly is your point though, Nick2?

That the "anti-racist" members of the board can be just as bad as the people they are complaining about.

Originally posted by nick2
That the "anti-racist" members of the board can be just as bad as the people they are complaining about.

Ah yes, quite right. :hihi:

I never intended this thread in any way to be "hatemongering" or for any reason other than to point out that some members were abusing their privileges (such as use of a FREE forum, that several kind souls work very hard to provide!) and attempting to promote hatred.

What I sometimes find hard to believe is some people's need to play devil's advocate about issues such as racism, extremism et al... Arguing for or against both sides at once - how does that work?

Taken to one extreme it means that racial hatred is ok because it's one person's point of view. Tell that to the family of the teenager who had an axe buried in his head! Not that SF is a breeding ground for axe murderers... I hope!

Offensive material *should* be reported to mods, but if noone raises the issue in public, so to speak, would people know that such action takes place?

This thread *has* got a bit mudslingy, so if the mods want to lock it, that's fine.

With apologies

Please remove mine if you wish

Originally posted by mr_chris
I never intended this thread in any way to be "hatemongering" or for any reason other than to point out that some members were abusing their privileges (such as use of a FREE forum, that several kind souls work very hard to provide!) and attempting to promote hatred.

What I sometimes find hard to believe is some people's need to play devil's advocate about issues such as racism, extremism et al... Arguing for or against both sides at once - how does that work?

Taken to one extreme it means that racial hatred is ok because it's one person's point of view. Tell that to the family of the teenager who had an axe buried in his head! Not that SF is a breeding ground for axe murderers... I hope!

Offensive material *should* be reported to mods, but if noone raises the issue in public, so to speak, would people know that such action takes place?

This thread *has* got a bit mudslingy, so if the mods want to lock it, that's fine.

I don't see how supressing the thoughts of these people would help.
Surely it's better to get them out in the open where we can make their arguments look silly, and try to convince them that they are wrong?

Pretty much all of the regular users are aware that posts can be reported and i'm sure most of them do so if they feel the need.

i haven't really noticed

Originally posted by mr_chris
I never intended this thread in any way to be "hatemongering" or for any reason other than to point out that some members were abusing their privileges (such as use of a FREE forum, that several kind souls work very hard to provide!) and attempting to promote hatred.

What I sometimes find hard to believe is some people's need to play devil's advocate about issues such as racism, extremism et al... Arguing for or against both sides at once - how does that work?

Taken to one extreme it means that racial hatred is ok because it's one person's point of view. Tell that to the family of the teenager who had an axe buried in his head! Not that SF is a breeding ground for axe murderers... I hope!

Offensive material *should* be reported to mods, but if noone raises the issue in public, so to speak, would people know that such action takes place?

This thread *has* got a bit mudslingy, so if the mods want to lock it, that's fine.

well why post it then.

i haven't really noticed

You have only just joined.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
To be fair to Craig he isn't the brightest member of the master race .

While this may just seem like your average mud slinging/abuse it is I can assure based purely upon Craig’s own self evaluation and so therefore should not be insulting to him

This revelation occurred after he watched a black contestant on Who Wants to be a Millionaire? nearly win the jackpot. It led him to post a comment along the lines of, “I don’t understand it, I always thought black people were meant to be stupider then me?” (except his language was a lot less PC as you may imagine from a KKK supporter)

If I am wrong and this has offended Craig to his white supremacist core or if this posts presence puts in jeopardy the threads status, please remove my comments as is appropriate.

Originally posted by mr_chris
...Taken to one extreme it means that racial hatred is ok because it's one person's point of view...
If it really is that extreme the mod's will indeed remove the offending post, and ban the perpetrator (this has happened in the past), once the offending post has been reported to them.

Why do you seem to have such a problem grasping this point?

Resorting to a blanket ban on all posts / ideas that you don't personally subscribe to is not the way forward on this issue.

:nono:

*settles into the thread* :)

*points fingers*

Its not the overt racism that upsets me the most it's the hinted at racism in many posts. The making a racist point flimsily behind another comment or subject.

Originally posted by robbie
Its not the overt racism that upsets me the most it's the hinted at racism in many posts. The making a racist point flimsily behind another comment or subject.

We see 'em here, we see 'em there, we see the 'racists' everywhere.

How unfortunate that on a forum such as this we can't root out 'racist body language' as well - which I believe was made a punishable offence for employees in one of the London borough councils in the 1980s (Islington? - hopefully this is just an urban myth, rather like the myths about the covering up of piano legs in Victorian times).

Originally posted by foo_fighter
If it really is that extreme the mod's will indeed remove the offending post, and ban the perpetrator (this has happened in the past), once the offending post has been reported to them.

Why do you seem to have such a problem grasping this point?

Resorting to a blanket ban on all posts / ideas that you don't personally subscribe to is not the way forward on this issue.

:nono:

See, this isn't just an I or you thing.

Foo Fighter (damn fine band, btw), I don't have a problem "grasping the point", as you put it, far from it. You, however, seem to have taken quite a dislike to me simply because I pointed out how I don't think racism is acceptable?

What's the deal with that? Have I offended you?... putting words in my mouth and then attempting to assassinate my character about it does not an argument make.

*sigh*

Originally posted by mr_chris

youwhatref - not quite sure I follow you? You don't find it amusing to read as it was posted by me?

Sorry Mr-Chris, i must learn to read what i've just typed (lazy sometimes :D ) i meant to state that i do find it quite amusing to read the comments from the particular person the Mods have now banned!


In relationto your last post, i think 99.9% of us including foo-fighter dont think racism is acceptable. However, like many of us in the past you've only had to look in a certain manner to be accused of being a racist and i'd hazard a guess that this is why a few are disputing certain aspects of this thread.

As everyone on here knows I AM a BNP SUPPORTER and find nothing wrong with racism

Originally posted by craigmason
As everyone on here knows I AM a BNP SUPPORTER and find nothing wrong with racism

......

and herein lies the problem....

PT

Originally posted by craigmason
As everyone on here knows I AM a BNP SUPPORTER and find nothing wrong with racism

And provided you say nothing that breaches Forum rules or civilised behaviour, we have no qualms with that.

The forum harbours a wide community of people who share ideas and views, not all of which other forum members agree with.

But as I said above - the times we will intervene, and intervene hard, are when the boundaries of civilised debate and behaviour are transgressed - whoever does the transgressing.

Joe

Originally posted by youwhatref
...In relation to your last post, i think 99.9% of us including foo-fighter don’t think racism is acceptable...
Thanks for that youwhatref, and you are correct, I do not think racism is acceptable, just like the vast majority of people on this forum...

...and just like most people on this forum, I don't want excessive moderation to interfere with our discussions (and I just happen to think that currently the balance is quite good).

Originally posted by mr_chris
See, this isn't just an I or you thing.

Foo Fighter (damn fine band, btw), I don't have a problem "grasping the point", as you put it, far from it. You, however, seem to have taken quite a dislike to me simply because I pointed out how I don't think racism is acceptable?

What's the deal with that? Have I offended you?... putting words in my mouth and then attempting to assassinate my character about it does not an argument make.

*sigh*
mr_chris, I have not "taken a dislike" to you (although after that last post, I must admit I may be starting to) and I am having problems finding where I have "attempted to assassinate your character"...

...I honestly believe that you are seeing things on this forum, and things in other peoples posts, that aren't there, I think you should look into yourself for the possible reasons behind this...

...I am however still surprised that you continue to think that the forum is somehow overrun with racist "propaganda", as this is quite clearly not the case.

Once again I will merely point out that the correct way to deal with "offensive material" is to contact the mod' team, they will remove any articles that are actually offensive…

…although, this may not be everything which you would like.

;)

Originally posted by craigmason
As everyone on here knows I AM a BNP SUPPORTER and find nothing wrong with racism.
Well...

...as most people on here agree, there is something wrong with racism...

...and no matter how often you, or your small minority of friends say it's acceptable, you are wrong.

:shakes:

Originally posted by craigmason
As everyone on here knows I AM a BNP SUPPORTER and find nothing wrong with racism


But I thought Roy said the BNP weren't racist?

Originally posted by foo_fighter]...I honestly believe that you are seeing things on this forum, and things in other peoples posts, that aren't there, I think you should look into yourself for the possible reasons behind this...[/i]


Err, so people quoting Hitler in their sigs and saying how me must preserve the white race is too subtle? I don't have to look "into myself' to see that.

Originally posted by foo_fighter...I am however still surprised that you continue to think that the forum is somehow overrun with racist "propaganda", as this is quite clearly not the case.

Never said it was overrun. if you look at my original post, I pointed out how people were managing to put racist/extreme/offensive things on their sigs and avatars, which as another poster pointed out makes any post, even one about B&Q kitchens, offensive, and subverts the intentions of the thread.

This was never meant as an attack on any one person, nor did I proclaim the entire forum to be racist (sigh)... You do seem to have taken it a bit personally.

There *should* be freedom of speech, but even freedom cannot mean a lack of accountability. Everyone seems eager to hide behind the so called freedom of speech we seem to have (although we don't have a constitution that guarantees this, as far as I know, unlike the Americans...)

I know you don't think racism is acceptable, so why argue the toss?

Originally posted by mr_chris
Err, so people quoting Hitler in their sigs and saying how me must preserve the white race is too subtle?

Which sig quoted Hitler? was it Roy's Polish ulter ego?

polish_lady, I think was the user - although apparently they've been banned.

I found it incredible, however, that people nowadays think like that. Lifting some genocidal maniac (who was never a member of the "master race" he invented) up to be someone to be adored and even worshipped.

Or perhaps they don't think... and that's the point....

Originally posted by mr_chris
...This was never meant as an attack on any one person, nor did I proclaim the entire forum to be racist (sigh)... You do seem to have taken it a bit personally...

No I haven't, but I will discuss the issues with you, that is the purpose of this forum after all, isn't it?

Originally posted by mr_chris
...There *should* be freedom of speech, but even freedom cannot mean a lack of accountability...
I'm glad you agree about freedom of speech, and we do of course have "accountability" on this forum, hence why the offending poster you just referred to has been banned.

Originally posted by mr_chris
...I know you don't think racism is acceptable, so why argue the toss?
I am not disputing anything about racism with you, I merely contend that the systems and procedures already in place on this forum are adequate (if they are used, and that's up to us to help the mod's), and would not like to see more draconian measures implemented.

You however seem to be asking for tighter controls on the forum, on this point we disagree, that's all.

:)

It was Polish_lady. Suppose it was meant to be inflammatory, I just thought it's the cleaning woman...

I don't think we need tighter controls.

Honestly the level of open racists now is nothing compared to when the politics section was up and they were flocking to this site. This was of course thanks to certain members posting a link on a US neo Nazi site complete with descriptions of the 'reds' that needed to be hassled.

My favourite such person with a new found interest in Sheffield was a bloke claiming that he lived here but he used American spelling (not that strange I admit as many rely on US spellcheckers) but despite claiming to be a teacher or something he only ever posted in the very early hours of the morning, almost as if he were posting from a different time zone.

Perhaps we just need to be told when and why people have been banned, I thought Polish Girl (Roy) had just acted like a true Nazi and followed her leader.

Originally posted by LordChaverly
We see 'em here, we see 'em there, we see the 'racists' everywhere.

How unfortunate that on a forum such as this we can't root out 'racist body language' as well - which I believe was made a punishable offence for employees in one of the London borough councils in the 1980s (Islington? - hopefully this is just an urban myth, rather like the myths about the covering up of piano legs in Victorian times).

I'm sorry your lordship but I don't like the stench of watching threads go up on here purely for the far right to espouse their beliefs behind a topic.

see a new topic with anything to so with race, relgion, immigration or any aspect o social policy and set your watch for a countdown to the first racist post.

Originally posted by robbie
I'm sorry your lordship but I don't like the stench of watching threads go up on here purely for the far right to espouse their beliefs behind a topic.

see a new topic with anything to so with race, relgion, immigration or any aspect o social policy and set your watch for a countdown to the first racist post.

You appear to think we have a common definition of what 'racism' is. The definition adopted by some posters on this forum seems to be so broad as to encompass any statement about sensitive topics (such as immigration or multiculturalism) which challenges the liberal consensus on these issues.

"racism - The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. "
"Discrimination or prejudice based on race"

"racist - a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others"

i don't recall reading any of the posts within this thread that anyone falls under the dictionary categories of racism or racist.
no one has alleged they are superior or inferior.
most forum members have a opininons & beliefs that may indicate prejudice, but that is inherent in every culture & creed.

I hate racism it is a cancer of our city i see maore and more every day. persoally i dont care what race a person is as long as they are decent people.:thumbsup:

Yes , Willman , you're right , there's a world of difference between thinking one's race /and culture is different from another and thinking it is superior.
I think a lot of people in this country resent being told that they should , "celebrate , /admire / understand ......etc....", other cultures and / or races.
There are many cultures and /or races in this country that I don't admire or respect .It would follow logically that we should do the same with every race / culture in the world , which is ludicrous . After all , should we not admire a culture just because it's not , "here and now ".
I don't hate any particuture culture /race ; I just don't have positive feelings about some of them.
I don't expect them to have positive feelings towards English culture or our race either. You either respect and admire something or you don't.
I'm sure if anything is more likely to make a lot of people in Britain feel resentful towards anybody , it is being told explicitly or implicitly that they must admire them..

Originally posted by teflon
I hate racism it is a cancer of our city i see maore and more every day.

Where do you see it ?

If you lived in Darnal perhaps, but not Fullwood.

Originally posted by willman
"

most forum members have a opininons & beliefs that may indicate prejudice, but that is inherent in every culture & creed.

Well said. I think this thread has got out of control. Someones "beliefs" should be respected and listened to rather than argued against by someone with similar opposite opions

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
Well said. I think this thread has got out of control. Someones "beliefs" should be respected and listened to rather than argued against by someone with similar opposite opions

what an odd world you must live in. If i disagree with someones opinion (in person or on a forum) then I try to show them why there's is wrong. We'd have some very odd threads if all we did was say that we respected their admittidley different opinion.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mr_chris


I'm all for informed discussion, but people quoting Hitler in their signatures and/or white supremacist nonsense is just unacceptable! What's next? Swastika avatars?


DON'T GIVE THEM ANY NEW IDEAS!

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
But I thought Roy said the BNP weren't racist? Yes, the KKK say they aren't racist too:rolleyes:

Originally posted by tulip
Originally posted by mr_chris


I'm all for informed discussion, but people quoting Hitler in their signatures and/or white supremacist nonsense is just unacceptable! What's next? Swastika avatars?


DON'T GIVE THEM ANY NEW IDEAS!

Too late, I think.

Some people have missed the point of this thread - it was about people having racist/extremist sigs and avatars, not people posting racist propaganda as actual threads! They *would* be removed straight away...

People need to get past the knee jerk reaction and actually read the thread. I don't think some people have, and so the thread just goes off on tangents about who is right and who is wrong, freedom and oppression, etc... which is *not* what it was about.

Originally posted by tulip
[QUOTE]


DON'T GIVE THEM ANY NEW IDEAS!

If you look on other forums our far right and neo nazi members use, you will see they have already come up with this idea themselves.

Originally posted by mr_chris

Too late, I think.

Some people have missed the point of this thread - it was about people having racist/extremist sigs and avatars, not people posting racist propaganda as actual threads! They *would* be removed straight away...

People need to get past the knee jerk reaction and actually read the thread. I don't think some people have, and so the thread just goes off on tangents about who is right and who is wrong, freedom and oppression, etc... which is *not* what it was about. [/B]

since the mods already deal with any sigs or avatars that are offensive as soon as they are aware of them, what is it that you are actually suggesting?

Originally posted by mr_chris [/i
People need to get past the knee jerk reaction and actually [i]read the thread. I don't think some people have, and so the thread just goes off on tangents about who is right and who is wrong, freedom and oppression, etc... which is *not* what it was about. [/B]




Yep, I don't think of racism as 'an opinion' I tried asking someone why they were quoting Hitler in as their singature but got no response :rolleyes: Everyone knows being rightwing and racist are different issues ...... I think but if you disagree with someone for saying 'deport everyone who is not British' You get accused of being a loony lefty or a tree hugger!

People sneaking in racist views as signature should be told off:clap:

The title of the thread is 'Racism on Sheffield Forum'. Moreover, the first sentence of the first post makes a very general statement also. There are also references to 'views' as well as to avatars. If the focus is to be exclusively and solely on avatars and sigs, then the title and first post ought to have made this explicit.

Originally posted by LordChaverly
The title of the thread is 'Racism on Sheffield Forum'. Moreover, the first sentence of the first post makes a very general statement also. There are also references to 'views' as well as to avatars. If the focus is to be exclusively and solely on avatars and sigs, then the title and first post ought to have made this explicit. He did but everything got side tracked, it always does. Any thread involving the words racist and racism always turn in to a right row!. His first words were: "I've noticed quite a few extreme right wing views cropping up on the forum - usually "disguised" as people's post signatures or similar."

Originally posted by mr_chris
Some people have missed the point of this thread - it was about people having racist/extremist sigs and avatars, not people posting racist propaganda as actual threads! They *would* be removed straight away...

Yes they would be removed - when we know about them! At the risk of repeating myself we do not and cannot read all the postings on the forum so if you see something that you find offensive report it. This thread has now been going on for 6 pages and so it would appear there are some people who think right wing/racist sigs and avatars are not appropriate but no-one appeared to have strong enough feelings to actually bother to hit the report this post link.

Originally posted by Cyclone
what an odd world you must live in. If i disagree with someones opinion (in person or on a forum) then I try to show them why there's is wrong. We'd have some very odd threads if all we did was say that we respected their admittidley different opinion.

In a round about way that was what I was saying..and I suppose I do live in an odd world but thats what makes it exciting :heyhey:

Originally posted by LordChaverly
The title of the thread is 'Racism on Sheffield Forum'. Moreover, the first sentence of the first post makes a very general statement also. There are also references to 'views' as well as to avatars. If the focus is to be exclusively and solely on avatars and sigs, then the title and first post ought to have made this explicit.

Actually, it was "Racism on Sheffield Forum?" - with a question mark...

See my point about people not reading the thread?

As for making my intentions explicit, I did. I then related it to my first point.

Originally posted by mr_chris
I've noticed quite a few extreme right wing views cropping up on the forum - usually "disguised" as people's post signatures or similar.

I think it's absolutely deplorable that these bigotted, unbalanced and dangerous views are allowed here. This isn't a stage for propaganda - the forum should be moderate *and* moderated.

I'm all for informed discussion, but people quoting Hitler in their signatures and/or white supremacist nonsense is just unacceptable! What's next? Swastika avatars?

Of course, it goes without saying that extreme left views would also be just as unacceptable! I'm not a fence sitter, or anything like it, but I know just how dangerous extremism can be.

There are other discussion boards for extremists on the internet, I suggest these people find a new home there.

See? *sigh*

Originally posted by Cyclone
since the mods already deal with any sigs or avatars that are offensive as soon as they are aware of them, what is it that you are actually suggesting?
I've been making the same point repeatedly...

...unfortunately it's like banging ones proverbial head against the wall.

As has been said on numerous occasions (including by a number of mod's) on this thread, if anyone sees any offensive posts, or sig's, or avatars, report them to the mod' team...

...and while your at it, post them on here (or at least mention them)...

...because after all this debate, it'll be interesting to see if there are actually any (that haven't already been removed, obviously).

:suspect:

Originally posted by mr_chris
Actually, it was "Racism on Sheffield Forum?" - with a question mark...




See? *sigh*

No. Your first post was ambiguous and certainly open to more than one interpretation.

Only if you read it wrong.


Honestly....


I'm still failing to see why I appear to be getting in the neck for saying extremist and sometimes quite racist (oh no, I said the "R" word) views don't really belong in a forum about my home town?

I thought this was the peoples' republic of South Yorkshire anyway (just kidding)...

Some people, it seems, will argue simply for the sake of arguing.

Originally posted by youwhatref
Sorry Mr-Chris, i must learn to read what i've just typed (lazy sometimes :D ) i meant to state that i do find it quite amusing to read the comments from the particular person the Mods have now banned!




he can now be found on another forum i cant advertise the name of :P

Who's been banned? and which website cannot be mentioned.
I know putting links to places like Stormfront, vanguard ect are not allowed and I've been asked not to cut and paste comments from some sheffield forum users which appear on those sites

mr_chris has left the room because of all the Monty Python style contradicting! All he was trying to do was draw attention to people quoting Hitler etc as their signature. No he wasn't, yes he was:rolleyes:

Admin: OK, for a definitive statement on this, please read on...


We take racism seriously, especially where it is inflammatory. We also take seriously the ability to carry on reasonable and open debate. We try very hard to get the balance right and we hope that on the whole we manage that.

The Moderating Team cannot see every post and we rely on members to REPORT THIS POST where they see something that they think might be unsuitable.

To the best of our knowledge, there are no racist signatures or avatars on Sheffield Forum at this time. Where they have been used in the past we have responded quickly to remove them. This also often results in a ban.

I hope that helps. We will leave this thread open for a while for comment, but it will be closed soon.

I can understand a lot of what is being said in all these postings, but saying someone is racist for a comment is not always correct, It is the intention behind the comment that makes it racist or not and we can't always know what the other person is thinking at the time It also depends on who is speaking as to whether others think it is racist or not... for example..
the other day i sent a text joke to a white friend of mine, i'd just changed my phone so he didn't know it was from me.. the joke...

Why did only the black men get shot whilst paintballing?
Because when someone shouted 'get down' they all got up to dance!

My friend text back 'I don't like racial jokes'
I replied, 'It's not racial, its funny' and signed it
They replied, 'oh, sorry, I didn't know it was you'.

Am I racial you might ask.. I'm white and female so i could certainly be, but hang on a minute. Where did the joke come from?

It was told to me by my BLACK brother in law!

I told it to some of my other friends, a group of students who get together, turkish, indian, african, chinese, pakistani,etc and they all thought it funny.

So yes, some things are racial, but I think often we loose sight of reality. After all, someone somewhere will take offence to something, and its very often those who think they are 'defending' that actually stir up much of the unrest.

(OK, before someone comments, i admit it isn't the most rib-splitting joke ever told.)

Originally posted by Tony
We also take seriously the ability to carry on reasonable and open debate.
So far so good.
Originally posted by Tony
We will leave this thread open for a while for comment, but it will be closed soon.
So which is it? Reasonable and open debate or yet another closed thread?

Originally posted by eagleeyes
I can understand a lot of what is being said in all these postings, but saying someone is racist for a comment is not always correct, It is the intention behind the comment that makes it racist or not and we can't always know what the other person is thinking at the time It also depends on who is speaking as to whether others think it is racist or not... for example..
the other day i sent a text joke to a white friend of mine, i'd just changed my phone so he didn't know it was from me.. the joke...

Why did only the black men get shot whilst paintballing?
Because when someone shouted 'get down' they all got up to dance!

My friend text back 'I don't like racial jokes'
I replied, 'It's not racial, its funny' and signed it
They replied, 'oh, sorry, I didn't know it was you'.

Am I racial you might ask.. I'm white and female so i could certainly be, but hang on a minute. Where did the joke come from?

It was told to me by my BLACK brother in law!

I told it to some of my other friends, a group of students who get together, turkish, indian, african, chinese, pakistani,etc and they all thought it funny.

So yes, some things are racial, but I think often we loose sight of reality. After all, someone somewhere will take offence to something, and its very often those who think they are 'defending' that actually stir up much of the unrest.

(OK, before someone comments, i admit it isn't the most rib-splitting joke ever told.)

LOL

i am actually chuckling out loud tho :P
for the past 5 minutes


but why would it be deemed racist?
cos it mentions the words black men?
cos only black men are into funk?

hhhhhmmmmmmmmmm

i have loads of funk records :) and im a white working class (oh no not that old chestnut again) old punk :P

Originally posted by RJ45
So far so good.

So which is it? Reasonable and open debate or yet another closed thread?

yeah i hate all the closed threads......Kristians the worst for it, yesterday i think it was there was somebody asking for something, everybody said theres already threads on the subject go find em, he said yes do a search, theres already threads on the subject, im going to close this one???????? why not just leave it? if people want to post in a duplicate thread why shouldnt they?


*rant mode off*
anyway back to the topic :P

P.S
LOL hes just done it again in the help me (childrens entertainer thread) yes she shouldve made the title more descriptive, BUT why not keep the bloody thing open now, its already done, if people want to post in it then all good???

Originally posted by eagleeyes
I can understand a lot of what is being said in all these postings, but saying someone is racist for a comment is not always correct, It is the intention behind the comment that makes it racist or not and we can't always know what the other person is thinking at the time It also depends on who is speaking as to whether others think it is racist or not... for example..
the other day i sent a text joke to a white friend of mine, i'd just changed my phone so he didn't know it was from me.. the joke...

Why did only the black men get shot whilst paintballing?
Because when someone shouted 'get down' they all got up to dance!

My friend text back 'I don't like racial jokes'
I replied, 'It's not racial, its funny' and signed it
They replied, 'oh, sorry, I didn't know it was you'.

Am I racial you might ask.. I'm white and female so i could certainly be, but hang on a minute. Where did the joke come from?

It was told to me by my BLACK brother in law!

I told it to some of my other friends, a group of students who get together, turkish, indian, african, chinese, pakistani,etc and they all thought it funny.

So yes, some things are racial, but I think often we loose sight of reality. After all, someone somewhere will take offence to something, and its very often those who think they are 'defending' that actually stir up much of the unrest.

(OK, before someone comments, i admit it isn't the most rib-splitting joke ever told.) I agree people do take things the wrong way a lot of the time but I think it is fair to say, if someone uses quotes by known racists then it isn't right and anyone who spots it should report it. As to your joke, I wouldn't say it was racist and I'm sure most people wouldn't find it offensive.

Originally posted by Jamie
I hate racism, and equally anti-racism laws (which I think serve to create more tenstion between the races).

In this day and age, it's not easy for a white person to have anything to do with a coloured person, for fear of anything they do or say being mis-construed as racist.

Does that make me racist?

Spot on! I agree with you 100%.

"Quote:
Originally posted by Jamie
I hate racism, and equally anti-racism laws (which I think serve to create more tenstion between the races).

In this day and age, it's not easy for a white person to have anything to do with a coloured person, for fear of anything they do or say being mis-construed as racist.

Does that make me racist?"

what utter bollards

black people generally dont like being called coloured by the way :)

Originally posted by RJ45
So far so good.

So which is it? Reasonable and open debate or yet another closed thread?
Well you don't seem to have anything useful to add to the debate apart from having a pop at the Mod Team. This is an example of why when the debate has run its course it will be closed to let us move on to something else. We have given the same explanation on multiple occasions, but it seems that some people aren't listening.

Like I said...

Originally posted by Tony
We will leave this thread open for a while for comment

Originally posted by Tony
Well you don't seem to have anything useful to add to the debate apart from having a pop at the Mod Team. This is an example of why when the debate has run its course it will be closed to let us move on to something else.

I though that by pointing out the hypocrisy in your post that I *was* contributing something to the thread.

Why do you feel the need to close threads on racism when other threads are allowed to die a natural death and fall off the first two pages?

Is having a pop at the mod team not allowed either? Are you above criticism now?

We close and remove lots of threads that are nothing to do with race. Racism just simply isn't treated any differently to any other subject on SF.

Secondly, you can criticise all you like, but I for one think that the Mod Team does a great job, especially when dealing with such a contrary group as you will find with nearly 15,000 members - the BIGGEST community website in the UK. I have a hunch that most people quite like this place.

However, this place is a privately owned enterprise that is offered for people to use on a free basis. There are terms and conditions and rules and there is a Moderating Team in place to support the members, and the success of SF, to ensure legality, fairness and respect whilst keeping it as a fun, interesting and informative place to be.

Frankly, if you think it's that bad, you are free to go and start up your own forum and run it as you like. It's been tried, and SF is still here, growing exponentially.

The 'market leader' if you will.

There is a reason for that.

Originally posted by eagleeyes
I can understand a lot of what is being said in all these postings, but saying someone is racist for a comment is not always correct, It is the intention behind the comment that makes it racist or not and we can't always know what the other person is thinking at the time It also depends on who is speaking as to whether others think it is racist or not... for example..
the other day i sent a text joke to a white friend of mine, i'd just changed my phone so he didn't know it was from me.. the joke...

Why did only the black men get shot whilst paintballing?
Because when someone shouted 'get down' they all got up to dance!

My friend text back 'I don't like racial jokes'
I replied, 'It's not racial, its funny' and signed it
They replied, 'oh, sorry, I didn't know it was you'.

Am I racial you might ask.. I'm white and female so i could certainly be, but hang on a minute. Where did the joke come from?

It was told to me by my BLACK brother in law!

I told it to some of my other friends, a group of students who get together, turkish, indian, african, chinese, pakistani,etc and they all thought it funny.

So yes, some things are racial, but I think often we loose sight of reality. After all, someone somewhere will take offence to something, and its very often those who think they are 'defending' that actually stir up much of the unrest.

(OK, before someone comments, i admit it isn't the most rib-splitting joke ever told.)

Am I allowed to find this racist because it originates from your brother-in-law that happens to be black?

i do find it annoying when people say or write racial when they mean racist.

I think that 8 pages on this thread within 2 days shows a remarkable interest in this subject. I have followed the discussion with interest over these 2 days, but only now do I feel I wish to contribute.

I haven't been aware of forummers using signatures or avatars with racist content (although one forummer uses a quote from Enoch Powell's infamous 'Rivers of Blood' speech as his signature line - but who cares really?). Maybe this occurred before I joined the forum though.

What does concern me are the blatent racist posts. Immigrants being called scum is one example. This is not intelligent debate, but stereotyping, and name-calling. And yet it often remains on view. Having read what the Mods have had to say on this thread, should I now be reporting all such offensive posts?

I have previously exchanged PMs with Hels, who feels that as little as possible should be censored by the Mods - in order that all forummers can judge for themselves the validity, or more likely the stupidity, of the observations and remarks made by some posters.

Our debate arose when one forummer twice posted offensive remarks about me, based on my sexuality. It earned him a 10 day ban, and the offending posts were deleted. I don't come on the forum to be abused over my sexuality. Similarly, why should we accept abusive remarks aimed at anyone who is not white-skinned?

Then we have the self-proclaimed racists and BNP supporters to contend with. They start a thread, but frankly most of us know what the hidden message is all about - yet another rant against anyone who isn't white-skinned. Why do we allow it to continue? Even the Mods have predicted that they know where such threads are going, and just wait until someone goes OTT, and then they close the thread.

I tried to encourage a colleague of mine to join the Sheffield Forum. His reaction was to tell me he'd viewed it in the past, and said he wasn't interested in joining a BNP forum. Admittedly this was prior to the general election, when BNP activity on SF was rife, and just before the politics section was finally closed down. One Mod may think that, with nearly 15,000 registered users, SF has got the balance right. That has to be balanced against others who have viewed SF, seen the racist rants, and decided it's not for them.

I have no criticism of the Mods. I recognise their desire to allow freedom of speech, and to minimise censorship. But in the light of the discussion on this thread, I for one will now be using the Report This Link button more frequently.

Thankyou to Disco Cat for differentiating between my Burkean Tory postings and those which openly champion and celebrate racism, earlier in the thread. Although we are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, Disco has always treated my views with respect, and vice versa. We are frequently opponents in political debate on the forum, but never enemies. Certain neurotic posters who cannot bear the idea that other people may dissent from their opinions could learn a great deal from my self-appointed 'nemesis'. If Disco is my 'nemesis', then he is the nicest and wisest 'nemesis' imaginable. I salute this formidable but fairminded and courteous poster. To the Cat!

Originally posted by Tony
Racism just simply isn't treated any differently to any other subject on SF.
Nonsense, you hang around like hawks waiting for the first chance to close any controversial thread. The mods on this forum discourage the free exchange of ideas.

Originally posted by Tony
Secondly, you can criticise all you like, but I for one think that the Mod Team does a great job
You and I disagree on what constitutes a "great job".

Originally posted by Tony
However, this place is a privately owned enterprise that is offered for people to use on a free basis. There are terms and conditions and rules and there is a Moderating Team in place to support the members, and the success of SF, to ensure legality, fairness and respect whilst keeping it as a fun, interesting and informative place to be.
More hiding behind the T&C's. Of course I was foolish to expect a real reply... :suspect:

Well as I said, feel free to use another forum if you don't like it here. We don't claim to make everyone happy, but it's run in a certain way that seems to work on the whole. Sorry if we can't be of service to you.

Originally posted by Tony
Well as I said, feel free to use another forum if you don't like it here. We don't claim to make everyone happy, but it's run in a certain way that seems to work on the whole. Sorry if we can't be of service to you.
Again you avoid answering the points I raised. :( I give up.

Originally posted by InvalidUser
Again you avoid answering the points I raised. :( I give up.

Hi InvalidUser -

The topic of this thread is: Racism on Sheffield Forum?
Kindly take your concerns about moderating to Tony via PM land or start a separate thread.

Thanks -

Red

Originally posted by melthebell
yeah i hate all the closed threads......Kristians the worst for it, yesterday i think it was there was somebody asking for something, everybody said theres already threads on the subject go find em, he said yes do a search, theres already threads on the subject, im going to close this one???????? why not just leave it? if people want to post in a duplicate thread why shouldnt they?


*rant mode off*
anyway back to the topic :P

P.S
LOL hes just done it again in the help me (childrens entertainer thread) yes she shouldve made the title more descriptive, BUT why not keep the bloody thing open now, its already done, if people want to post in it then all good??? Jokingly I said they only close your threads when you don't want them too but it turns out to be true:D