I get the impression that quite a few people on here are anti US? I don't want to be argumentative and try and get into a political row. I don't know enough about politics for one thing:blush:

I get the impression from some SF users that people who come here to work get a really rough deal. It actually isn't that bad. It is true that the itinerant workers put in a lot of hours for low pay, no paid holidays and medical plans but generally that is the way most workers are treated including US citizens.

Most jobs seem to be offered on a 'temporary' basis around these parts. You can work for years at the same place but pension plans, medical insurance and paid holidays are not part of the deal. Having said that, the cost of living is much cheaper and there is subsidized medical treatment and free medications are on offer. People who are working here (not necessarily legitimately) are entitled to certain benefits and their children are given free vaccinations and dental treament with no questions asked.

It is however very difficult to be accepted by immigration and relatively few people are allowed permanent resident status.

I am here legally but I will always be an 'Alien' albeit an alien with a permanent residents card!:)

I presume no-one likes this thread. I hope you all don't think I put it on to cause a massive row:confused:

I think sometimes people have the wrong opinion of a country and it's population.

I get some strange comments from people here about England. I'm amazed at how many people think Ireland is plonked in the middle of England. The strangest conversation I had was with an estate agent who thought practically all of Europe was in England and so was New Zealand :confused: She also thought no-one ever moved house in London because there weren't enough houses there so people lived in the same house all their lives and when they died it was passed on to another family member!

my company can't get americans to do the work they require, and they wont let me go over there to do the work without kicking me out after 3 years.

Originally posted by tulip
I presume no-one likes this thread. I hope you all don't think I put it on to cause a massive row:confused:


Perhaps no-one has any thoughts on the labour situation of a foreign country ?

Originally posted by willman
my company can't get americans to do the work they require, and they wont let me go over there to do the work without kicking me out after 3 years. Yes, I don't understand that. If you are working and paying your way I don't see why you can't stay! It's a government policy. Completely different in England. Mr. Tulip is a US citizen, his company sent him to England on a 2 year assignment which lasted for 23 years! After he had been working in England for 4 years he received a letter telling him he was allowed to stay indefinitely.

What line of work are you in?

Originally posted by nick2
Perhaps no-one has any thoughts on the labour situation of a foreign country ? Erm, I'd like to agree with that but I can assure you they do when I post on other threads e.g 'women spend £31,000 in a life time on shoes'. ;)

I can respond to an innocently to a funny thread and get negative responses when people see where I live:o

the company is setting up factories to produce restraints for use in freight for lumber etc (u don't call it timber).
they can't get warehouse men,drivers or even salespeople who stay for more than week.
one of the guys who set up the usa division is being threatened with a return to the uk after 5 years there.
in the uk the company pay decent enough, well decent enough for me to finance my own company start up.

America is a great place to live if you have money. Living here on minimum wage must be hell. I have to dispute that the cost of living is cheaper. Firstly it's a generalization, some places are very expensive to live, maybe not London expensive, but still expensive.

Where i live you cannot get a decent apartment for less that $1000 a month. Imported goods are expensive so that case of Stella will cost more in the US than the UK. Bread is very expensive in the Midwest as is most meat and fish, but corn is very cheap. In general ALL fresh fruit and veg is more expensive in the US. So it completely depends on where you are and what your lifestyle is. Also what sells more in the UK tends to be cheaper in the U.K so booze for example. If i want some French cheese or Italian olive oil it's more expensive, but Californian wine is fairly cheep.

People always tend to generalize that America is cheaper and its rip off Britain, but from my experience it's more complicated than that. Flights are another thing that are more expensive here than in the UK.

Originally posted by back2basics
America is a great place to live if you have money. Living here on minimum wage must be hell. I have to dispute that the cost of living is cheaper. Firstly it's a generalization, some places are very expensive to live, maybe not London expensive, but still expensive.

Where i live you cannot get a decent apartment for less that $1000 a month. Imported goods are expensive so that case of Stella will cost more in the US than the UK. Bread is very expensive in the Midwest as is most meat and fish, but corn is very cheap. In general ALL fresh fruit and veg is more expensive in the US. So it completely depends on where you are and what your lifestyle is. Also what sells more in the UK tends to be cheaper in the U.K so booze for example. If i want some French cheese or Italian olive oil it's more expensive, but Californian wine is fairly cheep.

People always tend to generalize that America is cheaper and its rip off Britain, but from my experience it's more complicated than that. Flights are another thing that are more expensive here than in the UK. Wow! I don't know where in the U.S you live but even Southern California is much cheaper than England In my experience. Basically what you pay a pound for in England, you pay a $ here.

Where do you live in the Mid West? My stepson lives in Oklahoma and it is cheaper there than Idaho.

I think stuff imported from Europe is bound to be more expensive here but there is plenty of home 'grown' products that cost less than half the price.

Flights are not more expensive in my experience. I can fly to L.A for $180!

I pay $5 for a 1 pint bottle of Berio olive oil, that's only about £2.80:confused:

You need to switch from Stella to Coors Beer $13 for a case of 24 large cans.

I have travelled in the US. There is a difference in house prices & fuel depending on what state you live in but still cheaper than the U.K:confused:

I live in Chicago.

You can fly to Paris or Spain for 40 pounds, about the same distance (Spain) as L.A from you and about $90 cheaper. What’s more you can get a 2 week Holliday in Spain for about $400 including flight, something that always amazes my American friends. As you know in CA to buy a house you will need 200,000 pounds for anything bigger than a shoe box, or a trailer. I have even seen trailers for sale in California for more than a 4 bed detached house in lets say Kent.

They really don’t cost half of what U.K product do. Bread is at least $2 here, Chicken 3 breast between $7 and $10, in the UK you would pay half that. I pay $4 for eggs that would cost no more than a pound in the UK. Leeks are about twice the price as the UK, infact just about any veg apart from tomatoes and cauliflower are twice the price, that would depend on where you are in the country and what time of year. Asparagus is particularly expensive, so are things like hair shampoo, for similar products to Europe you can pay $7-10 a bottle, you can of course get cheaper brands, the point is i buy what i want, not what is cheap. Which is why i said it depends entirely on what you buy, if you like mexican beer or Budweiser you can get it cheap, if not expect to pay $14 for Heiniken... if not just buy safways own for $6 for a case. My razors are also much more expensive that in the UK. These are specific brands I buy, I don’t buy cheap eggs, I buy free range. Remember this is a huge country so things like Chicken and Veg here are more expensive because there is so much demand.

We are generalizing, again. Soho in NY has some of the highest property prices in the World, So does L.A for that matter. If you look up the cost of living index the cities that score highest are, Tokyo, L.A, London, NY (http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/11/pf/costofliving/ Chicago is number 35 on that list).

Interesting to note that London and Birmigham are the only UK city on top 100 most expensive places to live list, and thats mainly because of the cost of property in London. Lots of US cities high up on that list.

What are consistently cheaper and pound for dollar are electronics, cloths and gas, which do work out very cheap no matter where you are.

Mind you the wages are better, which help and generally you do find yourself with more disposable income because of this. And there are cheaper places to live in the States if you stay away from the cities.

Originally posted by back2basics
I live in Chicago.

You can fly to Paris or Spain for 40 pounds, about the same distance (Spain) as L.A from you and about $90 cheaper. What’s more you can get a 2 week Holliday in Spain for about $400 including flight, something that always amazes my American friends. As you know in CA to buy a house you will need 200,000 pounds for anything bigger than a shoe box, or a trailer. I have even seen trailers for sale in California for more than a 4 bed detached house in lets say Kent.

They really don’t cost half of what U.K product do. Bread is at least $2 here, Chicken 3 breast between $7 and $10, in the UK you would pay half that. I pay $4 for eggs that would cost no more than a pound in the UK. Leeks are about twice the price as the UK, infact just about any veg apart from tomatoes and cauliflower are twice the price, that would depend on where you are in the country and what time of year. Asparagus is particularly expensive, so are things like hair shampoo, for similar products to Europe you can pay $7-10 a bottle, you can of course get cheaper brands, the point is i buy what i want, not what is cheap. Which is why i said it depends entirely on what you buy, if you like mexican beer or Budweiser you can get it cheap, if not expect to pay $14 for Heiniken... if not just buy safways own for $6 for a case. My razors are also much more expensive that in the UK. These are specific brands I buy, I don’t buy cheap eggs, I buy free range. Remember this is a huge country so things like Chicken and Veg here are more expensive because there is so much demand.

We are generalizing, again. Soho in NY has some of the highest property prices in the World, So does L.A for that matter. If you look up the cost of living index the cities that score highest are, Tokyo, L.A, London, NY (http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/11/pf/costofliving/ Chicago is number 35 on that list).

What are consistently cheaper and pound for dollar are electronics and cloths, which do work out very cheap no matter where you are. Well, the only thing I can say is we must be living on differents planets!

Of course a holiday in Spain including flight is going to be more expensive! You can't compare a low cost flight to spain from England to a package holiday to Europe from the US. You can get much cheaper internal flights in this country. How much does it cost for a return flight from london to scotland these days? I would say about £250?

My in laws live in L.A. Housing is expensive but you can get more for you money. My sister-in-law is a property surveyor there.

We bought our house with land here for less than half of what we sold our house for in England. Someone tell me how much a five bedroom brick house on 5 acres of irrigated land would cost in the UK?

What about the price of fuel, staying in a hotel, car rental, eating out?

I wasn't comparing a holliday to Spain from the US to one from the U.K.

London to Scotland is about 80 Pounds not over 200.

You certainly do not get more for your money in L.A than even London... let alone Leeds or Sheffield.

By the sounds of it you live outside a city. Sure i can show you places in the Midwest that you can get land and a house for $100,000, but it's apples and Oranges.

I did say gas was cheeper, but you need far more of it espessially if you live in the middle of nowhere.

Hotels are more epensive here as well! L.A, NY, Chicago you are looking at a MINIMUM of $100 a night, and that is an absolute minimum.

As i posted the research shows that the most expensive places to live are mainly in the States. It's not just where i live, it every single big city in the U.S is far more expensive than living in lets say Leeds of Sheffield, when you consider everything.

But over and above that my costs are about the same as in England.

In the list they compare like to like, so what it would cost for an apartment of a certain size and location. They included good and services as well, things people typically buy.

And we do not see anywhere outside London or Birmingham on the list but we see White Plains and Detroit.. no Sheffield or even Kent.

1 Tokyo, Japan
2 London, UK
3 Moscow, Russia
4 Osaka, Japan
5 Hong Kong
6 Geneva, Switzerland
7 Seoul, South Korea
8 Copenhagen, Denmark
9 Zürich, Switzerland
10 St. Petersburg, Russia
11 Beijing, China
12 New York City, USA
13 Milan, Italy
14 Dublin, Ireland
15 Oslo, Norway
16 Shanghai, China
17 Paris, France
18 Istanbul, Turkey
19 Vienna, Austria
20 Sydney, Australia
21 Rome, Italy
22 Stockholm, Sweden
23 Helsinki, Finland
24 Abidjan, Ivory Coast
25 Douala, Cameroon
26 Amsterdam, Netherlands
27 Los Angeles, USA
28 Berlin, Germany
29 Hanoi, Vietnam
30 Shenzhen, China
31 Taipei, Taiwan
32 Guangzhou, China
33 Tel Aviv, Israel
34 Budapest, Hungary
35 Chicago, USA
36 Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
37 Beirut, Lebanon
38 San Francisco, USA
39 Luxembourg
40 Düsseldorf, Germany
41 Glasgow, UK
42 Frankfurt, Germany
43 Munich, Germany
44 Bratislava, Slovak Republic
45 Jakarta, Indonesia
46 Singapore
47 Dakar, Senegal
48 Riga, Latvia
49 Prague, Czech Republic
50 Athens, Greece
51 Birmingham, UK
52 White Plains, USA
53 Brussels, Belgium
54 Kiev, Ukraine
55 Miami, USA
56 Barcelona, Spain
57 Honolulu, USA
58 Hamburg, Germany
59 Zagreb, Croatia
60 Algiers, Algeria
61 Madrid, Spain
62 Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
63 Amman, Jordan
64 Kuwait City, Kuwait
65 San Juan, Puerto Rico
66 Casablanca, Morocco
67 Melbourne, Australia
68 Washington, USA
69 Lyon, France
70 Boston, USA
71 Lisbon, Portugal
72 Morristown, USA
73 Houston, USA
74 Almaty, Kazakhstan
75 Tallinn, Estonia
76 Warsaw, Poland
77 Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
78 Manama, Bahrain
79 Sofia, Bulgaria
80 Auckland, New Zealand
81 Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
82 Ljubljana, Slovenia
83 Dubai, United Arab Emirates
84 Mexico City, Mexico
85 Atlanta, USA
86 Wellington, New Zealand
87 Brisbane, Australia
88 Adelaide, Australia
89 Toronto, Canada
90 Seattle, USA
91 Vilnius, Lithuania
92 St. Louis, USA
93 Leipzig, Germany
94 Perth, Australia
95 Limassol, Cyprus
96 Vancouver, Canada
97 Accra, Ghana
98 Cleveland, USA
99 Cairo, Egypt
100 Denver, USA
101 Detroit, USA
102 Monterrey, Mexico
103 Kingston, Jamaica
104 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
105 Portland, USA
106 Panama City
107 Winston Salem, USA
108 Guatemala City, Guatemala
109 Mumbai, India
110 Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
111 Lagos, Nigeria
112 Pittsburgh, USA
113 Montreal, Canada
114 Calgary, Canada
115 Tianjin, China
116 New Delhi, India
117 Dacca (Dhaka), Bangladesh
118 Lima, Peru
119 Bangkok, Thailand
120 Tunis, Tunisia
121 Nairobi, Kenya
122 Tehran, Iran
123 Santiago, Chile
124 Ottawa, Canada
125 Lusaka, Zambia
126 Johannesburg, South Africa
127 Colombo, Sri Lanka
128 São Paulo, Brazil
129 Bucharest, Romania
130 San José, Costa Rica
131 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
132 Karachi, Pakistan
133 Chennai (Madras), India
134 Caracas, Venezuela
135 Blantyre, Malawi
136 Quito, Ecuador
137 Bangalore, India
138 Manila, Philippines
139 Bogotá, Colombia
140 Harare, Zimbabwe
141 Buenos Aires, Argentina
142 Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

[/QUOTE] So L.A is 27th on the list, London is SECOND:confused: Come on this is getting a bit silly, it's turning into a monty python sketch:D We moved here BECAUSE of the cost of living. Lets compare like with like (Sorry I misunderstood about the package holiday in Spain. Talking in £'s & $'s confused it for me) I will take your word that a hotel costs you $100 a night but that is per room isn't it - it is everywhere I have stayed. The night before we moved to this country we stayed at a Holiday Inn In Woking. At cheap rate for a basic room it was £120 per PERSON. There is no way you would get a return flight from London to Scotland for £80 unless it was a special offer type deal!

You wouldn't get a cheap house in Kent.

We live twenty five miles from Boise not in the middle of knowhere.

How long is it since you lived in England? We need some people to post a few UK prices I think because I think a mod is going to go mad about this any minute :|

Originally posted by tulip
The night before we moved to this country we stayed at a Holiday Inn In Woking. At cheap rate for a basic room it was £120 per PERSON. There is no way you would get a return flight from London to Scotland for £80 unless it was a special offer type deal!



I just checked their website and the most expensive charge I could find was in July, - double standard room with en-suite facilities, two people sharing @ £159.00. In June and September the room charge is £75.00, I assume breakfast is extra.

http://www.activehotels.com/servlet/xmlbrochure/guestratingdetails.do?hotelid=200628&trkref=UK2&language=en

My wife and a friend went to a funeral in Tonbridge Wells a couple of weeks ago. They stayed in a country-house style hotel, large double room shared. en-suite facilities, private garden terrace, full English breakfast...total cost £72.00. She reckons it was her most luxurious B&B experience ever !

Obviously you'll not get 'walk-on' flights London to Scotland for £80.00, but if you can plan ahead there are plenty of return flights available for less than £80.00 both from Heathrow and Gatwick.

http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/Glasgow/?source=godestflis

I looked up that flight cost on cheaptickets.com. The last one i booked similar to that was Glasgow to London about 4 years ago and i paid about 60 pounds one way. So not impossible to find just the first one, i am sure you could pay more or less... but 250 is far too much.

Look if you read what i was saying, i was making the point that not everywhere in America or England or France or Spain is cheap. You are basically saying America is cheap, it's not. Some places are some place are not, not sure why you cannot accept that, or why you think i am saying where you live or Alabama or some other place is expensive... i am not.

Where *i* live it is expensive, i just posted the costs and well it's expensive, as it is in NY, LA, Boston etc. To live in ANY of these places is far more expensive than Bradford or Scunthorpe or Liverpool. The prices i posted are things i buy every week, eggs, bread,veg they are staples and they cost me at least double what they would in the U.K. Bread is about 40-60p a loaf, eggs about a pound. I come back to the U.K regularly so i know what things cost, in a pretty average place (i normally visit Leeds, which is in the middle somewhere).

I hinted about three times you were generalising. Everybody seems to want to do that about America, people saying other are anti-american which again is a vast generalisation.

It's great that you moved where you live because of the costs. I don't think you will find a single person who can say they moved to NY or LA for the cost of living. Before i moved here i thought all America was cheaper than England as well, it's not.

London is not all of England, like NY, Chicago or where you live is not all of America and all of America is not cheaper than all of England. You see where i am going now?

When you travel round America you will notice than unlike England the prices of certain good can be vastly different depending on where you live. A packet of cigarettes near where i live can cost $3, but the next town (a few miles away) it costs $6. Chicken is expensive in the Midwest, fish is cheaper where you are.

A X-Ray costs $2000. My wifes contraceptives cost $80 a month (prior to having great insurance). If i wanted to get a filling it's over $200.

My mortgage and property taxes are nearly 1000 pounds a month. Yes i have a pretty big detatched house in a historic area... but it's a WOOD house, not brick. Because we live in a country with rather changable weather, we have different standards to America, which make their houses a little easier to build. Not sure if you have seen them building American houses, but they can have one up in 4 days. The McManssion come in packs and they put them up in no time, and the materials are cheaper. They use Vinyl or Aluminum siding here, which is really cheap.

Originally posted by back2basics
I looked up that flight cost on cheaptickets.com. The last one i booked similar to that was Glasgow to London about 4 years ago and i paid about 60 pounds one way. So not impossible to find just the first one, i am sure you could pay more or less... but 250 is far too much.

Look if you read what i was saying, i was making the point that not everywhere in America or England or France or Spain is cheap. You are basically saying America is cheap, it's not. Some places are some place are not, not sure why you cannot accept that, or why you think i am saying where you live or Alabama or some other place is expensive... i am not.

Where *i* live it is expensive, i just posted the costs and well it's expensive, as it is in NY, LA, Boston etc. To live in ANY of these places is far more expensive than Bradford or Scunthorpe or Liverpool. The prices i posted are things i buy every week, eggs, bread,veg they are staples and they cost me at least double what they would in the U.K. Bread is about 40-60p a loaf, eggs about a pound. I come back to the U.K regularly so i know what things cost, in a pretty average place (i normally visit Leeds, which is in the middle somewhere).

I hinted about three times you were generalising. Everybody seems to want to do that about America, people saying other are anti-american which again is a vast generalisation.

It's great that you moved where you live because of the costs. I don't think you will find a single person who can say they moved to NY or LA for the cost of living. Before i moved here i thought all America was cheaper than England as well, it's not.

London is not all of England, like NY, Chicago or where you live is not all of America and all of America is not cheaper than all of England. You see where i am going now?

When you travel round America you will notice than unlike England the prices of certain good can be vastly different depending on where you live. A packet of cigarettes near where i live can cost $3, but the next town (a few miles away) it costs $6. Chicken is expensive in the Midwest, fish is cheaper where you are.

A X-Ray costs $2000. My wifes contraceptives cost $80 a month (prior to having great insurance). If i wanted to get a filling it's over $200.

My mortgage and property taxes are nearly 1000 pounds a month. Yes i have a pretty big detatched house in a historic area... but it's a WOOD house, not brick. Because we live in a country with rather changable weather, we have different standards to America, which make their houses a little easier to build. Not sure if you have seen them building American houses, but they can have one up in 4 days. The McManssion come in packs and they put them up in no time, and the materials are cheaper. They use Vinyl or Aluminum siding here, which is really cheap. Ok. I can't argue with you anymore:P It sounds ridiculously expensive where you live. You must have a very well paid job to afford to live in chicago.

I have travelled in the US. Things vary in price. I know Denver is quite expensive too in comparison to other cities.

We couldn't have afforded to live in England (Woking) without carrying on working until we dropped dead. If you wanted dental treatment you almost had to go private and the NHS was getting worse and worse. Here I get a doctors bill $9 a visit and my medication costs $5 per month.

I would agree certain fish is cheap here. We also can buy chicken breasts for 95 cents a pound at our local super market.

Our house actually is a brick house, but there are a lot of manufactured homes around because they are cost effective as you say. House prices are rising because of people from Boise moving out of the city to slighty more rural areas like here.

People living on minimum wage here, where I live, have a decent lifestyle.

Are you planning to retire to somewhere cheaper than Chicago, however far in the future that may be?!

I actually started this thread because of people generalizing about the US and US people!

Originally posted by Greybeard
I just checked their website and the most expensive charge I could find was in July, - double standard room with en-suite facilities, two people sharing @ £159.00. In June and September the room charge is £75.00, I assume breakfast is extra.

http://www.activehotels.com/servlet/xmlbrochure/guestratingdetails.do?hotelid=200628&trkref=UK2&language=en

My wife and a friend went to a funeral in Tonbridge Wells a couple of weeks ago. They stayed in a country-house style hotel, large double room shared. en-suite facilities, private garden terrace, full English breakfast...total cost £72.00. She reckons it was her most luxurious B&B experience ever !

Obviously you'll not get 'walk-on' flights London to Scotland for £80.00, but if you can plan ahead there are plenty of return flights available for less than £80.00 both from Heathrow and Gatwick.

http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/Glasgow/?source=godestflis You still don't believe that those Durango cowboy boots cost me only $30! I'm going to go to The Farm Shop and take a picture of them with their price tag and a shop assistant holding up a sign saying "this is true & the mens boots only cost $50":clap: :D

Well, when I visit England I will be staying in Tonbridge Wells, it sounds wonderful. I have some neighbours who are dying to visit England but can't afford to, I will recommend it to them too.:)

Just to show the price differences Woking v Boise (we didn't get the 18% discount when we stayed at the Holiday Inn in Woking)
BUT look at the price difference! $89.10 USD 2 DOUBLE BEDS NONSMOKING
$89.10 USD 2 DOUBLE BEDS SMOKING, that is the Holiday Inn - Boise, Idaho! It's the same deal you found based on two people sharing. In Woking £179 for a non-smoking room with a double bed!

Hmmmm. Cannot speak for prices in England, as I've never been there. Out of curiousity I have looked at real estate sites with homes for sale. Of course, the price is in pounds, not dollars, so I just double it.

For someone who's earning minimum wage to live reasonably in California is just impossible. In fact, theres been a huge uproar about how big companies like WalMart and fast food places, and even smaller businesses are using the government (taxpayers) to partially subsidize their workforce.

The reasoning being that they don't pay their workers enough, don't provide adequate medical and dental insurance, or retirement plans (pensions, 401K's etc.) and consequently, these people are obliged to make use of government programs, such as Medi-Cal, food stamps, WIC (women, infants, and children food vouchers, good for things like bread, milk, eggs, cereal, etc.) and other things just to get by. Not to get ahead. Just to survive.

I think the US must be more competition oriented and cutthroat than the UK. If you're lazy, not too bright, or just unfortunate enough to find yourself depending upon the largesse of the government, God help you. It must be our pioneer heritage. In the California town I grew up in, populated with descendents of the Irish who had crossed the Atlantic in "coffin ships", THEN crossed the country in wagons and on foot, those who couldn't fight their own fights got scant aid or sympathy. And that went for girls, too.

tulip, y'all must have some good medical insurance. Ours is similar, through husband's employer, and I thank God for it everyday.

back2basics, I don't doubt they charge you that much. I ALWAYS ask what something would cost WITHOUT the insurance, and most of the time, I'm stunned. Just recently, my boy chipped a tooth horsing around in the pool. His pediatric dentist did a beautiful job repairing the chip. You can't even tell. We paid $90. The price without insurance? Almost $400.

The prices for fruit and vegetables where I live are pretty inexpensive. I go to this place twice a week:http://www.modestofarmersmarket.com/

Last Saturday, I bought two buckets of strawberries, peaches and nectarines as big as my fist, sweet white corn, tomatoes, cilantro, and onions for salsa, summer squash, pepper jack cheese, tomatillos to make a green sauce for enchiladas, several loaves of sourdough bread (which the kids have already devoured) and some smoked salmon. They also have alot of organic produce, all kinds poultry and meat, and lots of dairy products.

Even if you live in a big city, sometimes they have farmer's markets at least once a week. I would definitely look around.

:) Sierra

Originally posted by Sierra
Hmmmm. Cannot speak for prices in England, as I've never been there. Out of curiousity I have looked at real estate sites with homes for sale. Of course, the price is in pounds, not dollars, so I just double it.

For someone who's earning minimum wage to live reasonably in California is just impossible. In fact, theres been a huge uproar about how big companies like WalMart and fast food places, and even smaller businesses are using the government (taxpayers) to partially subsidize their workforce.

The reasoning being that they don't pay their workers enough, don't provide adequate medical and dental insurance, or retirement plans (pensions, 401K's etc.) and consequently, these people are obliged to make use of government programs, such as Medi-Cal, food stamps, WIC (women, infants, and children food vouchers, good for things like bread, milk, eggs, cereal, etc.) and other things just to get by. Not to get ahead. Just to survive.

I think the US must be more competition oriented and cutthroat than the UK. If you're lazy, not too bright, or just unfortunate enough to find yourself depending upon the largesse of the government, God help you. It must be our pioneer heritage. In the California town I grew up in, populated with descendents of the Irish who had crossed the Atlantic in "coffin ships", THEN crossed the country in wagons and on foot, those who couldn't fight their own fights got scant aid or sympathy. And that went for girls, too.

tulip, y'all must have some good medical insurance. Ours is similar, through husband's employer, and I thank God for it everyday.

back2basics, I don't doubt they charge you that much. I ALWAYS ask what something would cost WITHOUT the insurance, and most of the time, I'm stunned. Just recently, my boy chipped a tooth horsing around in the pool. His pediatric dentist did a beautiful job repairing the chip. You can't even tell. We paid $90. The price without insurance? Almost $400.

The prices for fruit and vegetables where I live are pretty inexpensive. I go to this place twice a week:http://www.modestofarmersmarket.com/

Last Saturday, I bought two buckets of strawberries, peaches and nectarines as big as my fist, sweet white corn, tomatoes, cilantro, and onions for salsa, summer squash, pepper jack cheese, tomatillos to make a green sauce for enchiladas, several loaves of sourdough bread (which the kids have already devoured) and some smoked salmon. They also have alot of organic produce, all kinds poultry and meat, and lots of dairy products.

Even if you live in a big city, sometimes they have farmer's markets at least once a week. I would definitely look around.

:) Sierra I'm so glad of your input Sierra! I've been to LA a number of times and I realize you couldn't live there on a low income. All my inlaws (Sun Valley, Chattsworth and surrounding areas) wanted us to live there but we knew we would have a better life style if we moved somewhere with cheaper housing and lower car insurance.

Like the US, house prices vary in different cities in the UK as do property taxes, and car insurance.

Doubling the prices that you see in £'s is pretty much a safe bet, it is not far off $2 to the £. Chains like Holiday Inn charge ridiculous rates in England. Say you went to England as a tourist a basic room non smoking double bed is going to cost you $300 dollars a night for 2 people (children are extra) if you make an advanced booking.

You are right about the price wars here, lots of shops competing for customers. I might be totally wrong but I would think in a vast country like the US with so many different businesses competing for customer, it would naturally mean lower prices. In the UK there seems to be a lot of price fixing on goods.

I'm not trying to bring down my home country, I loved living there. I started the thread in the hope that people who live in the US would offer a more balanced view of this country. It gets a lot of stick because of the government but who doesn't have gripes about how their country is governed? It doesn't mean the general public agree with everything their political parties do.

I don't for one minute believe in exploiting workers. I know some people here are totally against itinerant workers for various reasons but think nothing of paying cash in hand to illegal immigrants do their cleaning or gardening and pay them a decent amount of money for doing a job for them and it seems to work for all concerned.:bigsmile:

Originally posted by tulip
I get the impression that quite a few people on here are anti US?

JL - Personally, it's not so much anti American as anti their government ( specifically George W. [ it was bad enough that he got in the first time by a coup d'etat - but then he was voted in the 2nd time - don't the Yanks recognise a sociopath when they see one? ] ) - not that ours is much better!

I don't want to be argumentative and try and get into a political row. I don't know enough about politics for one thing:blush:

I get the impression from some SF users that people who come here to work get a really rough deal. It actually isn't that bad. It is true that the itinerant workers

JL - Actually itinerant / migrant workers are the NEW slaves. -Most people simply assume that the American Civil War stopped slavery. Not so. It merely helped slave owners come to the conclusion that slavery was no longer profitable! Housing & feeding slaves costs money. But itinerant/migrant workers are only needed short term e.g. to bring in the crop, & then they move on until they're wanted next year. - Even slaves are treated better than that!

put in a lot of hours for low pay, no paid holidays and medical plans but generally that is the way most workers are treated including US citizens.

Most jobs seem to be offered on a 'temporary' basis around these parts. You can work for years at the same place but pension plans, medical insurance and paid holidays are not part of the deal.

JL - What else do you expect? After 'all', America is the "engine room" of capitalism, & they operate on a Neo* Darwinian viewpoint (* actually, it would be more accurate to say bastardised e.g they inappropriately apply such concepts as "survival of the fittest" to human beings, which Darwin never intended, as he was dealing with animals, which are a different SPECIES from humans!!!

Having said that, the cost of living is much cheaper and there is subsidized medical treatment and free medications are on offer. People who are working here (not necessarily legitimately) are entitled to certain benefits and their children are given free vaccinations and dental treament with no questions asked.

JL - Well the rich & the power brokers are happy to give them the crumbs off the table, just to lubricate the gears of the capitalist engine (sorry, but I just love mixing metaphors!)

It is however very difficult to be accepted by immigration and relatively few people are allowed permanent resident status.

JL - In other words, these people are being used & are disposable!

I am here legally but I will always be an 'Alien' albeit an alien with a permanent residents card!:)

I hope people will realize that I did not write the above post by myself. It is interspersed with comments from Jim Lyon. It makes me sound like I have muliple personality disorder - I might have but not to that extent!

I'm affraid Jim took my post and edited by accident!:o

Originally posted by tulip
I hope people will realize that I did not write the above post by myself. It is interspersed with comments from Jim Lyon. It makes me sound like I have muliple personality disorder - I might have but not to that extent!

I'm affraid Jim took my post and edited by accident!:o

JL - Nope ! - Lke most people, you need to get beyond what you were taught @ school e.g. English comprehension done in linear blocks. While that may be adequate for simple subjects, for more complex ones it's not.
Apart from being able to deal with more complex tasks, my way allows you to put your comments exactly where needed. Anybody who wants to join in just uses their initials. If they wish to come back & add further comments, then progress it JL, JL2, JL3 -> JL9 (you can go beyond 9, but for practical purposes, most conversations have died out by then, so i usually go back to JL by then.)
It's not that difficult, it's just like having a conversation!
Apart from which, you haven't actually replied to my comments!

this is really interesting, but i've had to skip to the end as i've got some work to do and want to post a reply.

Firstly, the holiday inn woking is one of the most expensive in the country outside central london.
I'm staying there (here) at the moment and our corporate rate is £114/night, it's generally quite a lot less than this in other cities.

If you wanted a cheap hotel in birmingham for example, you could get a box room with no services for £50, or the crowne plaza (corporate rate) for £98.

The site mentioned earlier has a comparative cost of living calculator.
I was playing around a while ago and noticed that albuqurce(sp) is half the cost of living as NYC. I think Manchester (closest you can get to Sheffield) was closer to NYC than to albuquerce.

There is a booming low cost airline market in the UK at the moment, whilst 2 or 3 of the major internal flight providers in the US are in chapter 13 insolvency protection, so it's not really a fair comparison. Basically the UK has cheaper flights at the moment.

The cost of land though outside the major cities is always going to be cheaper in the US, basically because the US is so much bigger than the UK and thus has less demand for land.

I've seen reports about people not having access to fresh fruit and veg in the US though even if they could afford it (in some places). So at a guess it's rarity must make it more expensive, at least in the cities.

jim, if you write your replies within the quote block then it makes it look like tulip said those things. You need to get beyond forum use 101 and learn how to close and open quote tags if you wish to reply like that.

Sorry - just going back to the holiday inn, they charge per room not per occupant, so as a tourist it should cost <$200 per night for 2 adults, children stay for free (and eat for free in the woking branch).

Originally posted by Cyclone
this is really interesting, but i've had to skip to the end as i've got some work to do and want to post a reply.

Firstly, the holiday inn woking is one of the most expensive in the country outside central london.
I'm staying there (here) at the moment and our corporate rate is £114/night, it's generally quite a lot less than this in other cities.

If you wanted a cheap hotel in birmingham for example, you could get a box room with no services for £50, or the crowne plaza (corporate rate) for £98.

The site mentioned earlier has a comparative cost of living calculator.
I was playing around a while ago and noticed that albuqurce(sp) is half the cost of living as NYC. I think Manchester (closest you can get to Sheffield) was closer to NYC than to albuquerce.

There is a booming low cost airline market in the UK at the moment, whilst 2 or 3 of the major internal flight providers in the US are in chapter 13 insolvency protection, so it's not really a fair comparison. Basically the UK has cheaper flights at the moment.

The cost of land though outside the major cities is always going to be cheaper in the US, basically because the US is so much bigger than the UK and thus has less demand for land.

I've seen reports about people not having access to fresh fruit and veg in the US though even if they could afford it (in some places). So at a guess it's rarity must make it more expensive, at least in the cities.

jim, if you write your replies within the quote block then it makes it look like tulip said those things. You need to get beyond forum use 101 and learn how to close and open quote tags if you wish to reply like that.

Sorry - just going back to the holiday inn, they charge per room not per occupant, so as a tourist it should cost <$200 per night for 2 adults, children stay for free (and eat for free in the woking branch). Hee, Hee, Hee. Thank-you cyclone! I read my post recently and though 'oh no, did I really say those things then I realised what had happened, I didn't realize he'd done it on purpose though:)

I don't think that fruit in general is more expensive. If shop in 'posh' shops things get relatively more expensive. I tend to see people choosing not to eat fruit and veg and opting for junk food.

I work in a school (I'm a legal resident) I teach 5 - 8 year olds and the pay is dreadful! I get just above minimum wage. Minimum wage here in Idaho is $5.15. In other states it can be as low as $2.15 so I guess I'm lucky. For people who cross borders without the correct paperwork there is no minimum wage, obviously.

I live among people who struggle to make ends meet. I'm not living in a 'pollyanna' world out here.

having briefly looked at the options I decided that the best place for me to emigrate would be new zealand.
Cost of living is half that of the UK (manchester), price of housing is about the same, but comes with a large plot of land. Pay for java programmers appears to be about the same to a little better.

And it has hot beaches, snowy mountains and cool scenery.

Tulip: You can get cheap housing in Kent - the crappier parts of Medway (ME2, ME4) - you could easily pick something up for £130,000 - £140,000. Or in the Bexley - the parts that are near Greenwich - a three bed - £165,000 - £175,000. This is cheap housing. Southern Kent, the nicer parts of East Kent - the villages outside of the Medway and western Kent - Bromley borough and down to Sevenoaks, aren't cheap.

An average area is £2XX,xxx - for you in Sheffield that is a very good area. See - the house price differences are closing for cheaper housing - i.e - Walkley = £170k, our quite-a-bit-crappier-than-Walkley (I'm not suggesting Walkley's crap) = £175,000. Your average area - Upperthorpe - this in Kent/SE of Eng - £225/250k. Your Millhouses etc - £225,000 - our Millhouses - £400k.

:)

Originally posted by kentboy119
Tulip: You can get cheap housing in Kent - the crappier parts of Medway (ME2, ME4) - you could easily pick something up for £130,000 - £140,000. Or in the Bexley - the parts that are near Greenwich - a three bed - £165,000 - £175,000. This is cheap housing. Southern Kent, the nicer parts of East Kent - the villages outside of the Medway and western Kent - Bromley borough and down to Sevenoaks, aren't cheap.

An average area is £2XX,xxx - for you in Sheffield that is a very good area. See - the house price differences are closing for cheaper housing - i.e - Walkley = £170k, our quite-a-bit-crappier-than-Walkley (I'm not suggesting Walkley's crap) = £175,000. Your average area - Upperthorpe - this in Kent/SE of Eng - £225/250k. Your Millhouses etc - £225,000 - our Millhouses - £400k.

:) Yeah, that proves my point, we managed to get a 5 bedroomed house in a nice area with 4.75 acres of irrigated land for little over £100,000. I know land is much cheaper here because there is much more to spare - that's why we relocated. If you want to live in LA then a house is going to cost £250,000 but cities are more expensive to live in wherever you go. :)

Originally posted by back2basics
In the list they compare like to like, so what it would cost for an apartment of a certain size and location. They included good and services as well, things people typically buy.

And we do not see anywhere outside London or Birmingham on the list but we see White Plains and Detroit.. no Sheffield or even Kent.

1 Tokyo, Japan
2 London, UK
3 Moscow, Russia
4 Osaka, Japan
5 Hong Kong
6 Geneva, Switzerland
7 Seoul, South Korea
8 Copenhagen, Denmark
9 Zürich, Switzerland
10 St. Petersburg, Russia
11 Beijing, China
12 New York City, USA
13 Milan, Italy
14 Dublin, Ireland
15 Oslo, Norway


whats scary is, ive lived or will be living in three of the top 15. and even though sheffield isnt on the list or not what i could see, its cheaper than living in NY. my quality of life is better. i wonder how its going to be in dublin?
Originally posted by back2basics
When you travel round America you will notice than unlike England the prices of certain good can be vastly different depending on where you live. A packet of cigarettes near where i live can cost $3, but the next town (a few miles away) it costs $6. Chicken is expensive in the Midwest, fish is cheaper where you are.

A X-Ray costs $2000. My wifes contraceptives cost $80 a month (prior to having great insurance). If i wanted to get a filling it's over $200.

My mortgage and property taxes are nearly 1000 pounds a month. Yes i have a pretty big detatched house in a historic area... but it's a WOOD house, not brick. Because we live in a country with rather changable weather, we have different standards to America, which make their houses a little easier to build. Not sure if you have seen them building American houses, but they can have one up in 4 days. The McManssion come in packs and they put them up in no time, and the materials are cheaper. They use Vinyl or Aluminum siding here, which is really cheap.

when my boyfriend came to visit last year he was SHOCKED all the homes are made of wood, packed so close together and going for half a million dollars (i grew up on Long Island), and this wasnt even in the good area.

Originally posted by Kerri
whats scary is, ive lived or will be living in three of the top 15. and even though sheffield isnt on the list or not what i could see, its cheaper than living in NY. my quality of life is better. i wonder how its going to be in dublin?


when my boyfriend came to visit last year he was SHOCKED all the homes are made of wood, packed so close together and going for half a million dollars (i grew up on Long Island), and this wasnt even in the good area. It was the same when I lived in Woking (surrey), the houses weren't made out of wood but they were so close together they may as well have been terraced houses, they had postage stamp sized 'gardens' and no privacy what so ever.

I'd hate to live in a city now. Apart from the expense I have become so used to the peace and quiet!

I hope you enjoy Dublin:)

Originally posted by Cyclone
having briefly looked at the options I decided that the best place for me to emigrate would be new zealand.
Cost of living is half that of the UK (manchester), price of housing is about the same, but comes with a large plot of land. Pay for java programmers appears to be about the same to a little better.

And it has hot beaches, snowy mountains and cool scenery. Do you have to become a NZ citizen to live there?

It sounds like a wonderful place to live. A guy I went to school with lives in NZ and loves it there.

Originally posted by tulip
Do you have to become a NZ citizen to live there?

It sounds like a wonderful place to live. A guy I went to school with lives in NZ and loves it there.

not sure, possibly.