I know that this is probably a common dilemman, and some of you will have had the exact same experience as me. Basically, I found out today that the fee that my agency is charging the firm that I am placed is is well over double what I am receiving. Now I understnad that in a sense my employer has offered me a rate of pay, and offered the firm a fee and both of these were accepted. I also know that in some respect what the agency charges the firm is none of my business. But the trouble is I have been offered a permanent job in the not too distant future, and i have also been offered temporary work at a better rate of pay. The firm need me and I really dont want to let them down.

Despite this I feel aggrieved and that the firm are either under paying me, or over charging the firm (and this is not the first time this has happened) and i feel that I should be payed a better rate then I am currently on.

Considering this do I have a case to re-negotiate my pay rate?

Just stay in work now, :)

I know that this is probably a common dilemman, and some of you will have had the exact same experience as me. Basically, I found out today that the fee that my agency is charging the firm that I am placed is is well over double what I am receiving. Now I understnad that in a sense my employer has offered me a rate of pay, and offered the firm a fee and both of these were accepted. I also know that in some respect what the agency charges the firm is none of my business. But the trouble is I have been offered a permanent job in the not too distant future, and i have also been offered temporary work at a better rate of pay. The firm need me and I really dont want to let them down.

Despite this I feel aggrieved and that the firm are either under paying me, or over charging the firm (and this is not the first time this has happened) and i feel that I should be payed a better rate then I am currently on.

Considering this do I have a case to re-negotiate my pay rate?


And therin lies your bargaining strategy ;)

the best way to approach it is to ask your agency in a nice way for bit more money! the only way they can do it is not by charging the employer more but by taking it out of there cut..if they think you may leave and jepordise the job they may cooperate but as I say be reasonable or they wont bother. hope this helps :-)

I know that this is probably a common dilemman, and some of you will have had the exact same experience as me. Basically, I found out today that the fee that my agency is charging the firm that I am placed is is well over double what I am receiving. Now I understnad that in a sense my employer has offered me a rate of pay, and offered the firm a fee and both of these were accepted. I also know that in some respect what the agency charges the firm is none of my business. But the trouble is I have been offered a permanent job in the not too distant future, and i have also been offered temporary work at a better rate of pay. The firm need me and I really dont want to let them down.

Despite this I feel aggrieved and that the firm are either under paying me, or over charging the firm (and this is not the first time this has happened) and i feel that I should be payed a better rate then I am currently on.

Considering this do I have a case to re-negotiate my pay rate?

....

dave you are missing the point entirely

agencies exist to provide a service to employers ..the rates they charge eoloyers is actually believe it or not .. none of your business.. let me dispell another myth about agencies.. they arnt out to exploit workers.. they pay a fixed rate of pay and you the individual accept or decline the job simple as that..

an agencies rate to employers is geared towards makeing profit.. agencies are a business and designed to make money... out of this "overcharge employers rate" as you put it.. has to come business rates/electricity/ rent/staffing costs.. admin.. anything left is pure profit..

i dont know why agency workers whinge and moan about what an employer gets charged. the reason why employer uses agencies at all is because it is cheaper for them in the long run as they dont have to pay holiday pay and have lost business through sickness..

agencies often dont know the true state of play either with staffing levels as the employer often doesnt tell them.. im not overly in favour of agencies , but for crying out lould.. stop moaning about arrangements that employers make with them.. as for negotiating payrates... 2.47million unemployed out there at the moment.. consider ureself fortunate to be in a job

....

dave you are missing the point entirely

agencies exist to provide a service to employers ..the rates they charge eoloyers is actually believe it or not .. none of your business.. let me dispell another myth about agencies.. they arnt out to exploit workers.. they pay a fixed rate of pay and you the individual accept or decline the job simple as that..

an agencies rate to employers is geared towards makeing profit.. agencies are a business and designed to make money... out of this "overcharge employers rate" as you put it.. has to come business rates/electricity/ rent/staffing costs.. admin.. anything left is pure profit..

i dont know why agency workers whinge and moan about what an employer gets charged. the reason why employer uses agencies at all is because it is cheaper for them in the long run as they dont have to pay holiday pay and have lost business through sickness..

agencies often dont know the true state of play either with staffing levels as the employer often doesnt tell them.. im not overly in favour of agencies , but for crying out lould.. stop moaning about arrangements that employers make with them.. as for negotiating payrates... 2.47million unemployed out there at the moment.. consider ureself fortunate to be in a job:loopy: you talking a load of twaddle sure the agencies are out to make a profit (anybody in business is)but not at the cost of the workers.back in the early eighties if you looked in the yellow pages there was a couple of pages for agency work you take a look now there is literally hundreds.you also talk about not exploiting workers ?you having a laugh years ago i was working on the decent homes programme for (an agency)who dont get me wrong was paying me a good rate but was also paying me a pound an hour extra to cover my holiday pay (some loophole they got around)then after 13 weeks they took me off the job and sent me to another(site)which was classed as starting a new employment contract because after 13 weeks (at the time they would have had to offer me a terms of contract) but technically i had started another (job)so it didnt matter talk about not exploiting the workers:hihi:also the same agency was charging the council nearly a third abovethe going rate for skips which we used to take the rubbish away (not a bad mark up on profits wouldnt you say)so they were not also exploiting the workers but their employers too:huh:if the agencies wasnt there then the employers would have to offer proper jobs with holiday pay etc

unfortunately ,you can not draw to comparisons on back in the day.

we are in a different culture now.. advances in technology means that people dont even have to be in same room to speak face to face with each other..
a lot of companies have a transient workforce..

i share your opinions about the number of agencies.however they unfortunately are there because demand dictates it..id go as far as saying there becomes a saturation point..trouble with agencies is they are all tarred with the same brush based on stories of a few.. perhaps now that jobcentreplus has now set targets to its providers of a minimum of 13 weeks unless no payment, perhaps it will lead to other avenues of employment direct with employers..

i agree totally that its a sorry state of affairs, but agencies are not responsible for this.. governments, outsourcing and technology is..
you ought to see what teaching agencies charge schools..that'll be an eyeopener!!

glad you didnt take what i put the wrong way but i agree this government and past governments are to blame if the work is there it should be (in my opinion)given to someone as full time employment . i know some vacancies are only temporary and we need such agencies but someone needs to draw the line somewhere (and yes i do know what teaching agencies charge just wish i was getting it :hihi:)

noi don't take what you said personally..

i used to go for around 45% mark up when i used to work for protocol education ..i used to recruit for primary and secondary schools across s yorks and ne lincs..it was one of the easist sells i had done.. i think the main point i was making previously was some people think that agencies are outdoing the workers by charging the employers more and the worker less.. its not the case.. i think the notion of negotiating a rate of pay is dillusional in what is, an employers market.. the reason why we used to charge what we did at protocol was because we used to offer continued professional development and additional resources..not only that.. there was the crb procedure.... margins are tight in reccruitment at the moment as its so competative.

....

dave you are missing the point entirely

agencies exist to provide a service to employers ..the rates they charge eoloyers is actually believe it or not .. none of your business.. let me dispell another myth about agencies.. they arnt out to exploit workers.. they pay a fixed rate of pay and you the individual accept or decline the job simple as that..

an agencies rate to employers is geared towards makeing profit.. agencies are a business and designed to make money... out of this "overcharge employers rate" as you put it.. has to come business rates/electricity/ rent/staffing costs.. admin.. anything left is pure profit..

i dont know why agency workers whinge and moan about what an employer gets charged. the reason why employer uses agencies at all is because it is cheaper for them in the long run as they dont have to pay holiday pay and have lost business through sickness..

agencies often dont know the true state of play either with staffing levels as the employer often doesnt tell them.. im not overly in favour of agencies , but for crying out lould.. stop moaning about arrangements that employers make with them.. as for negotiating payrates... 2.47million unemployed out there at the moment.. consider ureself fortunate to be in a job

Pisces, you remind me of the Mormons that we used to have coming round every couple of days. No matter what you talk about it always came back to the Church of Latter Day Saints. "So what do you think of the weather boys?", "well, our leader and founder Joseph Smith said...". You completely ignored the sentiment of the article and the context that I placed it in to ensure that your axe was well and truly grinded!

If you read my article, believe it or not, you would find that I said that what the agency charges is indeed none of my business. However as I have said I am getting better offers (one of which I have accepted). If my agency had offered me a better pay rate then I would stay with them, and I believe that I am well within my rights to negotiate my pay rate, as otherwise I am off. The fact that they are charging such a premium for the "sweat of my brow" doesn’t necessarily dictate that I renegotiate my pay rate, but what it does show is that there is room for me to do so. If they want rid of me then of course that is entirely their right to do so, but I, as an employee, have the right to withhold my services if I decide that the conditions and compensation for my services does not meet my standards. That is a right that I am going to exercise. The fact that this places the agency in a difficult position in regards to their client as they are in a tight spot and wouldn't have time to train someone else, is again, "none of my business".

Another point you raised was to suggest that it is the relationship between the agency and the client that is the important one. However the client will not go back to an agency if they send shoddy workers, and if you offer shoddy conditions, you will get a shoddy workforce.

Employment statistics are completely irrelevant. I have skills that the employment market has valued over what I am getting in my current job and I am prepared to move jobs in order to achieve that. I do not consider my dedication to the development of skills that the employment market values to be "fortunate".

I suggest that you give a little more thought to your posts next time.

you wouldnt be able to negotiate your rate with me ..

and in a market that is as disposable as a pack of nappies.. good look with doing so..
my experience in this market and more recent experience dealing directly with jobcentreplus tells me that i am right..

i didnt particularly value your opinion either

...and that is why the recruitment industry is so dispised!

...and that is why the recruitment industry is so dispised!

I don’t despise them they provided a good bridge for me between redundancy and waiting for the right job to come along.

...and that is why the recruitment industry is so dispised!


I don't despise them either.

I've been agency working for around eight or nine years and I love it. No application forms to fill in, don't have to get involved in the office politics, don't have to commit to anything permanent so am free to go on holiday as often as I like, get to cherry pick the jobs I take, get paid holiday pay - agency working is ideal for me.

There are some good agencies out there and I think provide a great service to employers. Its true that trends have changed and with tighter recruitment procedures to adhere to these days, many of the organisations I have worked at have been glad to have the option of temporary staff to keep them going until they have recruited the right person for their post.

I'm quite happy with the agencies I work through and I don't care what they charge their client for my work, as long as I enjoy the job and am happy with my pay rate.

I don't despise them either.

I've been agency working for around eight or nine years and I love it. No application forms to fill in, don't have to get involved in the office politics, don't have to commit to anything permanent so am free to go on holiday as often as I like, get to cherry pick the jobs I take, get paid holiday pay - agency working is ideal for me.

There are some good agencies out there and I think provide a great service to employers. Its true that trends have changed and with tighter recruitment procedures to adhere to these days, many of the organisations I have worked at have been glad to have the option of temporary staff to keep them going until they have recruited the right person for their post.

I'm quite happy with the agencies I work through and I don't care what they charge their client for my work, as long as I enjoy the job and am happy with my pay rate.

this is a good attitude to have ... yes there are some bad agencies ..but in the main they are fine.. negotiating your rate equates to offering someone else the job in most cases as per daves posts ..

I agree that agencies provide a useful employment oppurtunity. Luckily a lot of them take a more reasonable stance than pisces1 who thinks that i should stay where i am at the rate i am regardless of the better offers i have received. Explained the situation to my recruiter this morning who has just called me back to offer me a new pay rate roughly 15 percent higher than my current one. I think you could learn a lesson from my agency pisces on how to look after your employees and not just your own pocket!

a very happy dave023456

Agencies are a necessary evil. I see it from a slightly different perspective as I have a limited company, they provide little value to me apart from being a route to market.
I can see the value from the end clients point of view, the agency filters and collates applications for them, it also normally processes time sheets and payment, but for the privilege charges 10 - 15 % on top of my rate.
I had an interview today that was arranged directly by someone already working for that client, they've no interest in involving an agency when they don't have to, and neither have I.

I agree that agencies provide a useful employment oppurtunity. Luckily a lot of them take a more reasonable stance than pisces1 who thinks that i should stay where i am at the rate i am regardless of the better offers i have received. Explained the situation to my recruiter this morning who has just called me back to offer me a new pay rate roughly 15 percent higher than my current one. I think you could learn a lesson from my agency pisces on how to look after your employees and not just your own pocket!

a very happy dave023456

oh the old percentage thing hey!! i need not learn any lessons for agencies as i don't work for one..whilst i did work for a recruitment company .. i had no isssues from either the candidate side or the client side.. my main role in recruitment was involving permanent employmment , hence my negotiating skills were more apparant because many employers had salaries all. wrong.. where as in temp employment, if an employee is going to bring my margin down, then i would not be agreeing higher rates. temporary recruitment isnt based on loyalty whether the worker is good.. there are thousands of good workers out there.. you have to see recruitment as a business not a place of friendship.. and by that i mean you are always needing to keep an eye on the figures.... now if you have any more points to raise, make them without personal attacks on people.

What old percentage thing? He got a pay rise from the agent because otherwise he was going to go to another role and they'd loose all their commission, not just some of it.

You could possibly learn something about structuring sentences though, your post is difficult to read and apparently made up of fragments of sentences.

Your first post was very personal and misinformed hence my tone!

Easy answer the employers saves money and time advertising a job and to best work out if someone is best suited is to use the agency and if the person does't work out it's easier to get rid and try with someone else. Don't look at how much they pay the agency look at your gonna be in full time work!

Your first post was very personal and misinformed hence my tone!

My first post? Are you mixing different posters up?

Oops, sorry cyclone, that post was directed at pisces instruction for me to not make my posts personal. I was explaining my tone.

What old percentage thing? He got a pay rise from the agent because otherwise he was going to go to another role and they'd loose all their commission, not just some of it.

You could possibly learn something about structuring sentences though, your post is difficult to read and apparently made up of fragments of sentences.

Hi Cyclone, Yes I take on board your point about the sentences etc. On forums, I try and do things a bit informal. So much to say, so little time to say it and all that.

What i meant about the percentage thing was, when someone tries to justify their point by saying " an employer had agreed to up his rate" , they nomally talk of percentages 15/20/25 percent. It's easier than just saying.. my employer agreed to up my rate by 76p per hour for example. This usually follows quite soon after a debate in a "I told you so" sort of way.
If this chap works as part of a large intake of agency staff and this gets out, well there would be a revolt lol.. Any agency I have worked for as a consultant would never do this at all!!

That said, if he has got his rate upped, then fair play to him. I have no animosity for this fine fellow, despite him taking my posts and my debate in the wrong manner.

oh the old percentage thing hey!! i need not learn any lessons for agencies as i don't work for one..whilst i did work for a recruitment company .. i had no isssues from either the candidate side or the client side.. my main role in recruitment was involving permanent employmment , hence my negotiating skills were more apparant because many employers had salaries all. wrong.. where as in temp employment, if an employee is going to bring my margin down, then i would not be agreeing higher rates. temporary recruitment isnt based on loyalty whether the worker is good.. there are thousands of good workers out there.. you have to see recruitment as a business not a place of friendship.. and by that i mean you are always needing to keep an eye on the figures.... now if you have any more points to raise, make them without personal attacks on people.

What a dick ! Im sure your company will be going bust pretty soon with your $hitty attitude :hihi:

lol @dicky doodle

i doubt it somehow! im sure the 800plus million would keep the wolves from the door.

and from the sight of your own forum nickname.. case of pot kettle lol. nice to know you have joined the debate with such finesse!

look at posts from kermit and cyclone and even dave.. at least they have valid points to get across.. even though dave doesnt agree with me..he puts a case forward and further arguement for debate..

perhaps you should try and post something a little less juvenile.

Hi Cyclone, Yes I take on board your point about the sentences etc. On forums, I try and do things a bit informal. So much to say, so little time to say it and all that.

What i meant about the percentage thing was, when someone tries to justify their point by saying " an employer had agreed to up his rate" , they nomally talk of percentages 15/20/25 percent. It's easier than just saying.. my employer agreed to up my rate by 76p per hour for example. This usually follows quite soon after a debate in a "I told you so" sort of way.
If this chap works as part of a large intake of agency staff and this gets out, well there would be a revolt lol.. Any agency I have worked for as a consultant would never do this at all!!

That said, if he has got his rate upped, then fair play to him. I have no animosity for this fine fellow, despite him taking my posts and my debate in the wrong manner.

Let me assure you that if I was choosing to hoodwink you, that I wouldnt hesitate to quote actual figures. It's not appropriate to discuss actual pay rates on here.

Im the only temp where I work for my particurlar agency so it hasnt caused any problems. HOWEVER it did take a few hours for my agency to get back to me, and i have no doubts that they were exploring all avenues available to them, and that the business would have had no qualms about ending my assignment if the client wasnt so keen for me to stay there. As such I take your point that this is not an adviseable situation if you are not prepared to end an assignment on the back of it.

that may go some way to explain things a little clearer then..

i apologise for seemingly causing any ill feeling. It wasn't intentional, but as you were the one who opened the post, it may seem that it was. However, in the main i was speaking in general and from my own experience both within the industry and from an outside perspective..

Whatever you do in your working life..good luck with it.. I just hope that the work situation improves for everyone full stop.

its always cheaper to employ someone direct but there is usualy a few grand payment to take them off the agencys books.

you dont have any right to ask for a pay rise. this is how the agency makes its money

never forget one of the golden rules of business which is " other people's time, other people's money!

I'm afraid Dave, that the only advice I can give you is to "suck it up". Temp agencies are all about making money, they do that by exploiting you. If you don't like it, maybe move to Cuba?

I've just read through this thread and no wonder some folk are moaning about their jobs if this is what their employers (agency or direct) think about their staff.
Its got worse than Victorian times when the boss's treated their workforce little better than what come out of a dog's backside.

I am an employer myself, albeit with two staff, i like to think i treat them as people, not a commodity.

Agencies are fine if you understand there will be a disparagy between what you earn and what the client pays them- thats how they make money like any Business.

The problem comes when they dont pay wages on time or kick you off a job at a minutes notice as you really have little rights as a temp.

you dont have any right to ask for a pay rise. this is how the agency makes its money

I do, I did, and I got it.

People do have such a defeatist view of temp agencies!