has anyone seen any armed police walking around either the interchange or the train station ?

Nope... But its early yet...

Originally posted by craigmason
has anyone seen any armed police walking around either the interchange or the train station ?

Are you on your lap top Craig?

According to the local news last night, this is going to be a more regular scene in the City centre from now on. Looks like were going to have to get used to the presence of armed police on the UK streets.

I am not sure if I feel more secure or slightly worried, Probably a bit of both. I know in todays climate these are necesary steps, but when I had my children I never thought I would be bringing them into a world like this *sigh*

As long as the police are well trained in the use of firearms I have no problem with them being armed. It is a great deal more difficult to shoot someone than to carry a gun around as a deterrant. But lets keep it so only the police can carry such weapons. That's about as far along the american path as I want to go.

Dragon

Originally posted by Dragon
As long as the police are well trained in the use of firearms I have no problem with them being armed. It is a great deal more difficult to shoot someone than to carry a gun around as a deterrant. But lets keep it so only the police can carry such weapons. That's about as far along the american path as I want to go.

Dragon

It's not only American cops that carry guns youknow. The UK is one of the last forces in the world where all the force are not armed !!!, we still live in a very good country, regardless of recent "bad eggs".

I don't like to see the police carrying guns. It doesn't make me feel any safer - quite the opposite.

I have no problem with a limited number of police having access to firearms when necessary but I don't want it to become an everday sight on our streets.

Most other countries have police who carry guns openly, one of the brilliant things about the British police is that we have not (until now) been forced down that route.

Maybe i'm being old-fashioned and trying to cling on to the past, but if that's the case, then it's a good part of the past, and worth hanging on to IMHO.

I agree Hels. We have been lucky so far, but I don't really want to see the country going down the same gun-totin' route as our friends abroad if at all possible.

Pointy black hats and yellow coats are not a deterrent to people who have moved to our country from one of the many that do have armed police.

Whilst the presence of armed police in the same building as I happen to be in makes me feel irrationally nervous, I still believe that in the current climate, the British police need to demonstrate they 'have teeth'.

I'm looking forward to the day when we can return to some degree of normality :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Strix

I'm looking forward to the day when we can return to some degree of normality :thumbsup:

Sadly,I think normality may be off the menu for quite some time to come.The current situation is likely to last for a great many years to come,im afraid.

But we all have to remember what it is were up against here:(

I'm with Strix on this one; the police need to be armed in the current climate. I'd love to think if that decision is taken it would be reversed later, but I doubt it somehow. :(

Originally posted by Strix
Pointy black hats and yellow coats are not a deterrent to people who have moved to our country from one of the many that do have armed police.

Whilst the presence of armed police in the same building as I happen to be in makes me feel irrationally nervous, I still believe that in the current climate, the British police need to demonstrate they 'have teeth'.

I'm looking forward to the day when we can return to some degree of normality :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: 100% correct Strix:thumbsup: we do need police to demonstrate they "have teeth" and we all would love to return to a degree of normality,,,:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Strix
Pointy black hats and yellow coats are not a deterrent to people who have moved to our country from one of the many that do have armed police.
Whilst the presence of armed police in the same building as I happen to be in makes me feel irrationally nervous, I still believe that in the current climate, the British police need to demonstrate they 'have teeth'.

I'm looking forward to the day when we can return to some degree of normality :thumbsup:
i agree with you 100%,the only thing is whats going to happen to our children and grandchildren. my father flew with the raf about 300 times during the war. to make britain a free country, now he cant even get an operation to allow him to pee with dignity. and why because at 85 someone somewhere says he is too old

:loopy: :loopy:

We had 30 years living in fear of bombings from the IRA without the police resorting to armed patrols in areas outside of the Capital.

Originally posted by Hels
We had 30 years living in fear of bombings from the IRA without the police resorting to armed patrols in areas outside of the Capital.

True, but don't you feel like it's getting necessary H? :(

The deputy head of West Yorkshire Police said on TV the other day that the highly visible presence of armed police was to make people feel more secure. All well and good saying that, but it does not make me feel more secure - it's a constant reminder of what has happened (ok, not a bad thing) and it makes me think - the police would not have armed police on the streets unless there is a real threat ? - so I should be worried.

Maybe it's more of an attempt to scare off any potential bombers?

The head of the Met Police said a while back that it was a matter of 'when' there is an attack in the UK not 'if' there is an attack. So the recent appearance of armed police appears to be a reactionary measure not pro-active.

And to be honest, if a suicide bomber wants to carry out an attack, surely they will pick out a target where no armed police are present?

We've had visibly armed police at Heathrow Airport for a long time now, the decision was never reversed even when the perceived threat was reduced. I just feel we are heading down a slippery slope towards routine arming of police and this will lead to offenders who may not have considered being armed necessary in the past may now be more likely to be armed - or am I just worrying needlessly?

Originally posted by Hels
I just feel we are heading down a slippery slope towards routine arming of police and this will lead to offenders who may not have considered being armed necessary in the past may now be more likely to be armed - or am I just worrying needlessly?
Is this the chicken or the egg? :(

With the amount of guns that drugs have brought to our streets, I'm surprised the police haven't been armed sooner.

I have to say I wouldn't be happy about the streets of our neighbourhoods routinely being patrolled in this fashion, but I think the right message is being sent to 'visitors' to this country.

I don't believe that it will be off-putting for tourists either - as most of them live in countries with armed police and thus regard the situation as 'normal'

The only time i see armed police is when they are round the prostitutes house who lives next door to my granmothers house looking for her armed boyfriend!.

Originally posted by Hels
We had 30 years living in fear of bombings from the IRA without the police resorting to armed patrols in areas outside of the Capital.

believe that if you wish

it also doesn't account for the operational doctrine of much of PIRA activtiy - whose aim was to disturb infrastructure and to target specific targets for much of their campaign

You will never get the type of respect for the police unless the punishment fits the crime. That deterent was taken away by the do gooders (Eye for an eye).

All the police I've seen today had two arms. Quite normal if you ask me.

Zippy, you saying that, during the 30 years of the IRA bombings on the mainland, we had high profile and visibly armed police patrols like the one's were seeing this week?

I guess that's what you mean when you say 'belive that if you wish'

Funny, I always thought my eyesight was pretty ok, perhaps i've been going around with my eyes closed for far too long :loopy:

Originally posted by Hels
The deputy head of West Yorkshire Police said on TV the other day that the highly visible presence of armed police was to make people feel more secure. All well and good saying that, but it does not make me feel more secure - it's a constant reminder of what has happened (ok, not a bad thing) and it makes me think - the police would not have armed police on the streets unless there is a real threat ? - so I should be worried.

Maybe it's more of an attempt to scare off any potential bombers?

The head of the Met Police said a while back that it was a matter of 'when' there is an attack in the UK not 'if' there is an attack. So the recent appearance of armed police appears to be a reactionary measure not pro-active.

And to be honest, if a suicide bomber wants to carry out an attack, surely they will pick out a target where no armed police are present?

We've had visibly armed police at Heathrow Airport for a long time now, the decision was never reversed even when the perceived threat was reduced. I just feel we are heading down a slippery slope towards routine arming of police and this will lead to offenders who may not have considered being armed necessary in the past may now be more likely to be armed - or am I just worrying needlessly?

I totally agree with you, Hels.

The idea of armed police being routinely on British streets makes me feel very worried, not secure at all. It suggests to me there IS something to be worried about if the situation is so bad the police have to have weaponry with them at all times, and this is the opposite of reassuring. :(

I can recall at least some of the IRA activity that happened on the mainland, but do not remember hearing anything about normal police being armed at that time - in fact, I'm pretty certain they weren't. And no-one knew where/when the IRA might decide to plant bombs (although, admittedly, suicide bombing is a different situation to the IRA).

I just fear that if the police become routinely armed, then criminals are more likely to go out 'tooled up'. And it seems likely that the more guns are out there, the more innocent people are going to get shot/killed. It all 'ups the ante' - raises the stakes and the pressure.

Sadly, I don't think you're worrying needlessly, Hels. I'm concerned too :(

StarSparkle

It will be a long time before the police are routinely armed. Speaking from experience there are too many police officers who cannot be trusted with guns! Given the lack of support many of the armed officers get in situations where weapons have been used, it would be unworkable as many would refuse to bear arms. The logistics of training every front line officer to bear arms would also be a factor. If we then look at why West Yorks armed police are more visible (and this is only an opinion) we have to look at where the 'bombers' lived before they committed the acts they are suspected to have done. The response in Sheffield and surrounding areas is more subtle but trust your police service that they are working extremely hard in trying to keep the people safe from harm.

Originally posted by Hels
Zippy, you saying that, during the 30 years of the IRA bombings on the mainland, we had high profile and visibly armed police patrols like the one's were seeing this week?

I guess that's what you mean when you say 'belive that if you wish'

Funny, I always thought my eyesight was pretty ok, perhaps i've been going around with my eyes closed for far too long :loopy:

overt armed police is relatively new phenomena , to meet a different kind of threat , but to suggest that armed police as a norm is a 'new thing' is some what of a misnomer

Originally posted by zippy
overt armed police is relatively new phenomena , to meet a different kind of threat , but to suggest that armed police as a nirom is a 'new thing' is some what of a misnomer

The guys we see carrying weapons are not your average policeman - they're trained marksmen. In the 1970s, and up to the early 1980s, I think, Flying Squad and Serious Crime Squad officers could sign out weapons for raids and opetrations where gun play was expected. these were policemen who'd undergone training to shoot but were NOT armed in the day to day performance of their duty and were certainly not trained marksmen. See 'The Sweeney' for the fictional version of this.

As a child and teenager my local MP was the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, and when he visited the constituency to do surgeries he would be accompanied by close protection officers who carried concealed weapons. I remember one day when a jacket blew open to reveal a holster with a revolver in it.

It was only a few years ago that the news that Nottinghamshire police were deploying armed response units as part of their normal patrol patterns got headlines; that was to deal with armed drug dealers.

There were never to my knowledge overtly armed police on the mainland carrying out patrols; the RUC were armed, and people like Special Branch would carry when on close protection, but there hasn't been the sight of machine gun carrying policemen and women on the mainland before now. I think there MAY have been a regularly armed policeman outside number 10 Downing Street in recent yearin the IRA years.


Joe

I'm with Hels. I think the visible presence of armed officers does more to foster an acceptance of guns as part of everyday life than it does to deter criminals and terrorists. We're on our way down a slippery slope that's very hard to climb back up.

This thread just reminds me of something a canadian friend said to me cos he couldn't believe coppers in this country weren't armed.

"So", he said "Is it like Stop!! or we'll......shout stop again?".

Originally posted by JoeP

<snip>

It was only a few years ago that the news that Nottinghamshire police were deploying armed response units as part of their normal patrol patterns got headlines; that was to deal with armed drug dealers.



the issue here - i presume you are referring to the Meadows area of Nottingham itself was that foot patrols were undertaken by firearms officers, rather than the long standing arrangement in most force areas of the only routinely armed officers being the specific SFO teams on either Armed response vehicles or as part of specialist response teams


There were never to my knowledge overtly armed police on the mainland carrying out patrols


many forces have operated Armed responsse vehicles for upwards of 10 years, some forces operational doctrine had these officers carrying their side arms overtly and only the carbines and /or rifles locked in the vehicle safe


; the RUC were armed, and people like Special Branch would carry when on close protection, but there hasn't been the sight of machine gun carrying policemen and women on the mainland before now. I think there MAY have been a regularly armed policeman outside number 10 Downing Street in recent yearin the IRA years.

Joe [/B]

other than the airports , much of the area surrounding the City of London - and those areas within the City of London where the met DPG work and of course the Armed Response vehicles many forces have had for upwards of 10 years ...