I'm attempting to near enough stop worming the horses now I'm not at a livery yard with rules and group worming. I hate the idea of shoving nasty chemicals down their throat all the time. Especially when I know what problems wormers can also cause. But obviously worms are still a problem. So, I'm being strict with picking up droppings in the field so the larvae can't cycle as easily and I've sent off for a worm count kit prior to their next "due" worming. The idea being that I only worm for worms that are present and for which horse needs it. The lab that tests the poo predicts that within time they will need worming a lot less than they have before as they are only getting wormed for the burden they have. (Wormers don't prevent worms after all, they just kill worms already present).
Anyway, what I want to know is does anyone know of a similar technique for dogs, cats, rabbits etc. How do you avoid them getting worms in the first place? and is there any companies that check worm build up and advise you on type and amount of wormer to give. I'm going to look online but wondered if anyone had any experience as well.

Ooh I don't know, but would like to know :)

At present I don't worm Gadget at all. It doesn't seem to be a problem... what symptoms would I notice if it was?

I would also be really interested in this. I try to lead a chemical free life myself and hate shoving stuff down my animal's necks. I actually only worm the dog because she eats anything and I reckon is really open to them, but I do her after 6months and not three. I've never done the cat and never seen a problem
Would definitely be interested if there was an easy way of just doing her when she needed it rather then as a matter of course.
Will ask around a few people and see what they think and look forward to hearing how it goes.

I wormed my two recently cos they seemed to be forever hungry... they still seem to be forever hungry!

I wonder if there are any foods particularly good for it, like garlic is a flea repellent (in large quantities - however it's also from the onion family which is dangerous in large quantities!)

I would also be really interested in this. I try to lead a chemical free life myself and hate shoving stuff down my animal's necks. I actually only worm the dog because she eats anything and I reckon is really open to them, but I do her after 6months and not three. I've never done the cat and never seen a problem
Would definitely be interested if there was an easy way of just doing her when she needed it rather then as a matter of course.
Will ask around a few people and see what they think and look forward to hearing how it goes.


Yes, I am the same in trying to lead a chemical free life myself. Am moving in that direction with the animals but it isn't that easy!

Remember that if your pets are insured you can invalidate your cover by not worming them regularly, and anybody who has children in the house too shouldn't let worming lapse, as they easily pick up the larvae, which can migrate to behind the retina and cause blindness (the reason we now have dog waste bins which were never seen in the 80's or before)

Worms can also be transferred by fleas, so in a rural location with lots of dogs and other 'host' animals, the risk is probably fairly high

... which reminds me, we only ever treat fleas or worms if they appear :rolleyes:

Edit: I've found this (http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/NaturalWormTreatment), but don't know anything about it

Have a look at this website,

http://www.verm-x.com/

We now use this for our old pony as it is a lot more gentle on her stomach and dosn't make her poorly.

If used properly, the worm count is also a lot lower than the old faithfuls such as Panacur and Strongid-P

i can honestly say its been over a year since my animals were wormed,and fles well imover 2 months due for the dogs and i havent seen any so im not bothering, the kitten came with them so obv i flead him i wouldent bother unless it has themx

i personally always worm and flead as advised by vet just think its better to be safe than sorry wouldnt want her to become ill with anything if can avoid. have never looked into it but i think if animal care professionals recommend it then there must be a benefit?

I worm and flea on a regular basis, for two reasons. First is that Billy and Baby both hunt, so they both encounter prey which have fleas and worms (in all likelihood) so are both little flea and worm factories.

The second is that with fostering I regularly have visiting animals in, some of whom bring fleas and worms into the house even though they are flea treated as soon as is practical.

If I didn't have these reasons then I wouldn't worm them regularly either.

For anyone who doesn't plan on worming cats or dogs regularly, please remember that if they happen to catch fleas at any point then they are almost certain to have picked up worms at the same time (usually by ingesting fleas that they have groomed out of their coat- the fleas are vectors for the worms) so if you need to treat for fleas then you also need to eradicate worms.

I don't know enough about dogs to comment on that aspect, but with regard to the horses, Panacur (fenbendazole) and Strongid (pyrantel embonate) are practically obsolete drugs now as there is wide spread resistance to fenbendazole in particular and there are far more effective drugs available now in any event.

Switching to moxidectin or ivermectin based drugs means that you can double or triple the amount of time between doses, if you use a regular dose system, as the worming interval is 13 weeks for moxidectin and 10 weeks for ivermectin products.

The only drugs that touch tapeworm though are praziquantel (my preferred option) or the 5 day course of panacur.

If I had my own grazing I would be using worm counts too, but bear in mind that worm counts can't tell you whether or not tapeworm is an issue - you need to have a blood test done to test for tapeworm presence and as I understand it, the test is not a very sophisticated one as it shows a presence or not, unlike the worm counts that advise you how high the burden is. I believe the best advice is to worm for tapeworm on a 6 monthly basis whatever you do otherwise.

You might find that you need to worm regularly for the first year or so depending on how the grazing has been looked after before you took it over. Will you be able to cross graze with some sheep or cows at any point during the year as that will help as well as picking up the droppings? Also bear in mind with the poo picking that it doesn't take very long at all for the larvae to migrate from the droppings onto the pasture, so you will not be removing all worms even if you can poo pick daily.

I lead as chemical free life as possible, but I have seen the effects of worm damage on several occasions over the years, to be specific, that damage caused by worms in horses early lives has caused death via colic or rupture of arteries (damage caused by large redworm in particular migrating through the body and embedding in artery walls as they go causing weak areas) to mess about with worm control. The owners in each of the cases I am thinking about here were all devastated to lose their horses and the damage had been caused despite the horses having been with their last owners for several years during which worm programmes had been followed.

The only other thing I wanted to say was I'd read you want to get chickens soon. Please worm them with Flubenvet as chickens are also very susceptible to worms and can be very damaged by them.

I dont know much about dogs either. But with cats..

My opinion is, they go out all the time alone. They pick up god knows what on their travels, so my 2 are flea'ed every 6 weeks with frontline (best you can get apparantly it does the job so im not too fussed) simply because I would rather pay out for drops rather than some man in rags cleaning my house when im plagued by fleas. With regards to worms, they are done as per instructions with is every 6 months, the last owner never wormed Minnie and with Mickie we dont know about her past, but Minnie is now wormed/flea dropped on a regular basis, and you can see the benefits in her coat/face.. I know that some people dont agree with putting chemicals down them but if it was that harmful, surely places wouldnt be allowed to sell it? With Mickie we havent had her long enough to actually see the benefits just yet, but im sure we will very soon.

I worm and flea my cat and dog regularly. Before I got Evie (dog) I never wormed or flea'd Spangle (cat) as she's a house cat. She's still a house cat but since she could get fleas from Evie I've decided to do them both regularly.

However I didn't know there were any risks involved. What are the risks with worming and fleaing?

I think a few people haven't fully understood what I meant. I'm not about to stop worming alltogether- just change the way I worm the horses. The worm count came back - and no surprise, one was high and one was medium. I say no surprise because even though the last livery yard wormed "routinely", I was never happy with the coming and going of horses, poo never picked up, they never changed the type of wormer (which can cause a resistance) and routinely wasn't exactly the recommended time between doses. Anyway, as a result of this I'm going to act accordingly... which was my original point.

It's all very well worming regularly but how do we know a) it is even doing anything, and b) if there are other things we can be doing to prevent worm build up. I'll let you know how I get on, but so far I haven't found much in the way of using a more controlled method for dogs or cats, but I am waiting to hear back from my vets with information on dog/cat worm count labs.
Basically, if Oz has a low count I will try a herbal wormer and re-test to see if any improvement is made and go on from there.
I would never put my animals at risk from avoiding chemicals, it's more about deciding when it is necessary and when another method is better.
With regards to chickens, I was also aware they need worming and if possible will follow a similar method- although expense and reliability may be an issue so I may go down the route of the rabbits, which is worm until I have my head around the other more straight forward animals and then research :D
Don't worry I haven't gone worm mad. :hehe: just always try and think outside the box. Does anyone fancy testing dog **** with me?

Thanks Bethie for the info, it is inline with everything I have read up on recently so useful to have in this thread.

I know a few that have stopped using normal worming remedies because the dogs are becoming immune to it and starting to use herbal things instead, I can find out exactly what if anyone is interested?

I know a few that have stopped using normal worming remedies because the dogs are becoming immune to it and starting to use herbal things instead, I can find out exactly what if anyone is interested?

Yes please Lotti!
I did Luna yesterday as she was overdue but I would like to have something different in place for next time.
Thanks

I'll see if I can find the thread from the other forom (its liz but hey :hihi:)

I'll see if I can find the thread from the other forom (its liz but hey :hihi:)

DOH, sorry I just had a big block there! Think I was reading about 5 different threads at the same time....
Thanks LIZ!!!

For fleas http://www.wikaniko.com/products/description.asp?no=1525

The lady who uses the herbal wormer I've pm'd her, she mentions she uses is just doesn't say what lol

Righ here we go

I use Four Seasons parasite remover

I get it from a company called The Folklore Practice, they are brilliant, they will make things up for you if you have specific problem as said before they make up Rogers heart powder and have experimented with the strength etc so its right just for him.

it comes in a 100ml bottle and is £8.95 but lasts my 5 a year. and its safe for puppies, I can comfirm it works ive seen the evidence.

Their number is 01449 766750

Having seen this thread: http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=520945

I googled the Neem chews and it says they also address intestinal worms. Obviously, this doesn't cover all worms but they make something similar for horses as well as smaller pets.

Just thought I'd mention it :D

Having seen this thread: http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=520945

I googled the Neem chews and it says they also address intestinal worms. Obviously, this doesn't cover all worms but they make something similar for horses as well as smaller pets.

Just thought I'd mention it :D

Oooh I was just going to say that too Lotti, Neem is going to become very popular me thinks!

Neem oil is also used to treat mites and fleas herbally, so another bonus ?