Hi there

I am a third year student from Sheffield, reading History at Newcastle University. For my dissertation, I've chosen to look at South Yorkshire County Council, and the idea of the so called 'Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire'. As part of this I'm looking for any information, memories or experiences (positive or negative) people may have and are willing to volunteer, particularly in the early 1980s.

Accounts from anyone who may have been involved with the council could be especially useful, but any information/accounts/views would be gratefully received, however insignificant it may seem. This could be anything to do with, for example, cheap bus fares, deindustrialization or job losses, the 'nuclear free zone', and so on. It can be posted here, or my e-mail is at the bottom of this page if that is preferred.

Feel free to post questions and queries if anything seems unclear. Cheers in advance!

Chris.
christopher.hall4@ncl.ac.uk

Why not the capitalist monarchy of today?

The 'capitalist monarchy of today' perhaps wouldn't constitute history, and I chose this out of personal interest, it should hopefully be a nice, tight and so far not so widely written about subject.

cheap bus fares.
As i remember, being a kid in the early 80's the bus fares were unbelievably cheap, 2p for kids, 10p for adults and i believe 15p for the longest journeys?
we used to catch the 52 from woodhouse for 2p and keep hiding on the upstairs back seats and keep going from woodhouse to crookes and back for 2p :)

The title took me back a bit, I remember that :)

My mum used to be a county councilor, sadly I was a child and not too interested in her activities and she is gone now so I can't ask her.

I have a huge photo somewhere of the entire council, I will have to dig it out.

My dad might remember more, I will ask him.

I remember when the council placed the red flag on top of the Town Hall, it said everything about the City Council of the time. Stupid. They were determined to take on Thatcher and allied themselves with Derk Hatton and the rest of the loony left.

Had they taken a middle course and sought an accomodation with the Tory government in the way Manchester and other Labour councils of the time did then Sheffield would not have gone through nearly as much pain as it did. The Tories simply ignored them.

Blunkett abandoned the industrial wasteland that he had made such a contribution to by going to Westminster and becoming one of the most reactionary and right wing Home Sectetaries we have ever had. Betts joined him and has sat on the bank benches for all his time down there. The only contribution he has made was when he tried to abuse his influence to get his boyfriend into the country.

Like all the "professional politicians" of all parties who infest this nation neither of them has ever had a real job.

Their contribution to Sheffield can be summed up as "misrepresentation" in that thier political activities precluded them for properly representing the electorate whilst running the council and "betrayal" as MPs where there personal lives and allowing themselves to be sucked into the Westminster cesspit again has lead them to become careerists instead of representaives.

Wasn't the phrase 'Peoples Republic of South Yorkshire' coined by Mrs Thatcher when she heard about out of work people being employed to count lamp posts?

I remember when the council placed the red flag on top of the Town Hall, it said everything about the City Council of the time. Stupid. They were determined to take on Thatcher and allied themselves with Derk Hatton and the rest of the loony left.

Had they taken a middle course and sought an accomodation with the Tory government in the way Manchester and other Labour councils of the time did then Sheffield would not have gone through nearly as much pain as it did. The Tories simply ignored them.

Blunkett abandoned the industrial wasteland that he had made such a contribution to by going to Westminster and becoming one of the most reactionary and right wing Home Sectetaries we have ever had. Betts joined him and has sat on the bank benches for all his time down there. The only contribution he has made was when he tried to abuse his influence to get his boyfriend into the country.

Like all the "professional politicians" of all parties who infest this nation neither of them has ever had a real job.

Their contribution to Sheffield can be summed up as "misrepresentation" in that thier political activities precluded them for properly representing the electorate whilst running the council and "betrayal" as MPs where there personal lives and allowing themselves to be sucked into the Westminster cesspit again has lead them to become careerists instead of representaives.

Well said xenia!

Wasn't the phrase 'Peoples Republic of South Yorkshire' coined by Mrs Thatcher when she heard about out of work people being employed to count lamp posts?

Yes, it was aTory jibe, pounced on by the Press, but which the Council adopted with pride!

I believe Tory councilor Irvine Patnick coined the phrase, which the council did seemingly adopt with pride!

Interesting points thus far. It seems the cheap bus fares are something many recall from the time, would that be fair? Or do other policies stick out? I may yet come across your mum in my research hennypenny, I guess she would have had some fascinating tales!

Xenia, such a response was exactly the sorts of reaction I was looking for! Thank you for taking the time to write such an impassioned response, it's a view I have not yet thought of, that they were more preoccupied with taking on the government then doing what they were meant to be. It seems that so far, there is little support for the council of the time. Was this the case back then? Are these feelings with hindsight, or is it what many have always felt?

And Mr Blue Owl, the counting lampposts story is something I have not yet heard, but perhaps there is no smoke without a fire? May I ask where you heard this, or indeed if anyone else has heard of this? I read that in the Rotherham Advertiser, the council was mocked as having a 'Ministry of silly ideas', such as pushchair MOT's. Your post, if it has any truth, would certainly fit in with this idea! Even if it is an urban myth, it could be telling of some views of the council. Can anyone recount any other tales they may have heard about the council?

Thanks for everyone's help so far! Keep them coming! Anyone wish to speak in favour of the council?!

Chris Hall
christopher.hall4@ncl.ac.uk

I can still hear her overbearing pompous voice on the radio announcing it - during question time in the commons I believe. There are references to Thatcher and lampost counting on the link below although it was apparently Adolf's idea in this case.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/samleith/3562566/All-hail-spatial-analysis-co-ordinators.html
Good luck with the dissertation

Interesting points thus far. It seems the cheap bus fares are something many recall from the time, would that be fair? Or do other policies stick out?

Cheap bus fares definitely. How odd it used to be to see adverts on TV for West Yorkshire fares. Did they really pay THAT much?

Declaring Sheffield a "Nuclear free zone" is another one, along with the introduction of "Peace Studies".

.... Had they taken a middle course and sought an accomodation with the Tory government in the way Manchester and other Labour councils of the time did then Sheffield would not have gone through nearly as much pain as it did. The Tories simply ignored them.............



I'm not sure what sort of accomodation they could have got and whether what happened could have been avoided.

Sheffield was almost totally dependent on steel, coal and the other heavy industries that Thatcher and her cronies despised.

They were counting lamp posts before Thatcher became PM, my pal did it and there was some benefit, which I can't remember now, which outweighed the costs.

I'm not sure what sort of accomodation they could have got and whether what happened could have been avoided.

Sheffield was almost totally dependent on steel, coal and the other heavy industries that Thatcher and her cronies despised.

But having lost them, Sheffield was starved of grants etc because of the Council's attitude.
The classic example was the siting of the Royal Armouries. Where more logical than Sheffield, which used to be called the armoury of the world? Talks were well advanced when suddenly it was announced it was going to Leeds, who hadn't shown any interest originally, but it was suspected that Maggie or her cronies had a word and Sheffield was suddenly out of the frame and decisions taken rapidly in favour of Leeds.

I know there are many opinions about Thatchers attitude to Sheffield. It seems to me that Thatcher and her supporters were a reaction to what had happened to the UK generally through the 60s and 70s in regard to heavy industry and the trade unions. The miners were producing coal that there was no market for. Steel was being produced that was overpriced and the government was subsidising steel users to buy it. When an attempt was made to rationalise these industries the unions reaction was immediate confrontation.

Because of their political affiliations to the far left the unions saw any opportunity to confront any government in an attempt to take more power and create a more radical socialist state. Remember that during the Miners Strike the NUM was prepared to ally itself with Gaddaffi (who at the same time was supplying the IRA with munitions) and with other terrorist regimes such as the Angry Brigade.

Thatcher knew that there would never be an accomodation with the trade unions. She was supported by men like Keith Joseph and others now seen as "right wing" in fact they were not. Whilst conservatives, they were a reaction to the abuse of power by the ultra left wing exemplified as above and by councils such as Sheffield.

The damage done to Sheffield and to other traditional labour heartlends was not created by Thatcher, she was the bullet, the trigger was pulled by the Tory heirarchy, but the Unions and the lef wingers actually created the gun.





I'm not sure what sort of accomodation they could have got and whether what happened could have been avoided.

Sheffield was almost totally dependent on steel, coal and the other heavy industries that Thatcher and her cronies despised.

They were counting lamp posts before Thatcher became PM, my pal did it and there was some benefit, which I can't remember now, which outweighed the costs.

i imagine the benefit would be knowing how many lamp posts there were

By someone numbering all the bus stops in Yorkshire we now have the bus tracking system - YNB = Your Next Bus.

Steel was being produced that was overpriced and the government was subsidising steel users to buy it.

I worked at Tinsley Park Rolling Mills at that time. It was a new and profitable steel plant that even exported to the USA. It was closed down through overproduction in the steel industry - more likely because we were now in direct competition with our new EEC partners.

For a view from the National Coal Boards perspective read Ian McGregor book "The Enemy Within".

There is plenty written by from the NUM point of view but McGregor puts an interesting spin on things.

I remember when the council placed the red flag on top of the Town Hall, it said everything about the City Council of the time. Stupid. They were determined to take on Thatcher and allied themselves with Derk Hatton and the rest of the loony left.

Had they taken a middle course and sought an accomodation with the Tory government in the way Manchester and other Labour councils of the time did then Sheffield would not have gone through nearly as much pain as it did. The Tories simply ignored them.

Blunkett abandoned the industrial wasteland that he had made such a contribution to by going to Westminster and becoming one of the most reactionary and right wing Home Sectetaries we have ever had. Betts joined him and has sat on the bank benches for all his time down there. The only contribution he has made was when he tried to abuse his influence to get his boyfriend into the country.

Like all the "professional politicians" of all parties who infest this nation neither of them has ever had a real job.

Their contribution to Sheffield can be summed up as "misrepresentation" in that thier political activities precluded them for properly representing the electorate whilst running the council and "betrayal" as MPs where there personal lives and allowing themselves to be sucked into the Westminster cesspit again has lead them to become careerists instead of representaives.

I have never read such a TRUE statement on the forum before. I applaud thee
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Thankyou Nimrod. I wrote it more in sadness than in anger.I have never read such a TRUE statement on the forum before. I applaud thee
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