Sheffield City Battalion (Sheffield Pals) [Archive]

jay_l_a

20-02-2004, 11:23

I've been over to the Somme battle fields a number of times. There are a lot of cemeteries on the outskirts of Serre. The Sheffield Pals battalions attacked towards Serre on 1st July 1916, and I believe was one of the only first day objectives that was never captured when the offensive died down in November 1916. The jumping off trenches weaved around 4 copses, named by the troops as Mathew, Mark, Luke and John Copses. In one of the woods (maybe Mark), there is a Sheffield Pals memorial, behind which there is Railway Copse cemetery. Nearby there is also Queens Cemetery, Luke Copse Cemetery, and many others, including Serre Road number 2 which is one of, if not the biggest cemetery on the Somme battlefields.
It’s a deeply humbling experience to see the rows upon rows of Portland headstones, I’d recommend anyone in the area of the battlefields to have a look, or if very interested to try and get over there specifically for a look around.
The CWGC who look after the cemeteries (288 or so on the Somme) have their funding linked to the number of entries in the visitors booklets at the entrance of every cemetery, so as the number of visitors dwindles, so does their ability to keep these monuments looking their best.

Tony

26-05-2004, 13:04

Mod: Also see this thread for more (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11483)on the Time Flyers BBC2 program.

pauline

26-05-2004, 23:41

Tony

27-05-2004, 05:28

Gleighton

05-01-2005, 17:50

my grt Uncle was killed at the battle of the Somme. He was a member of the Sheffield pals. His name was John Henry Kelk. His body was never found and he is mentioned on the thievapal monument. I have never seen a photograph of him and I often wonder what he looked like. When somebody was reported missing presumed dead would the Sheffield Star print a photograph of them? I will have to have a look when I next visit Sheffield Local Study Library.

K Seavill

06-01-2005, 21:09

Dear Gleighton

If you get to Sheffield and do find anything on the Pals in the Sheffield Star, I would really like to know. My gt. Uncle is not recorded anywhere officially and I would like to know if he gets any local mention - Godfrey Cowlishaw. I wondered if he was killed in the early days of the Somme offensive.

Kseavill

retep

06-01-2005, 21:57

Have a possible Godfrey in census records if thats any use.

JoeP

06-01-2005, 22:17

There is a novel called 'A covenant with death' by John Harris, which my father-in-law introduced me too, which we're both convinced is about the Sheffield Pals - there is a lot of background stuff in the novel that almost certainly points to Sheffield as the origin of the unit that is described in the pages.

My grandfather was quite a lucky fellow - he was wounded on the first day of the Somme, July 1st 1916. He got shelled and woke up a PoW, and spent the rest of the war in Germany helping on a farm.

If anyone's interested in the land war in WW1 in general I have a reasonable reading list that I could PM or post to people.

Joe

Darren

07-01-2005, 13:08

Please vote for the Sheffield City Battalion when they are creating Sheffield Hall of Fame on Fargate

Siren

07-01-2005, 17:58

Originally posted by K Seavill
Dear Gleighton

If you get to Sheffield and do find anything on the Pals in the Sheffield Star, I would really like to know. My gt. Uncle is not recorded anywhere officially and I would like to know if he gets any local mention - Godfrey Cowlishaw. I wondered if he was killed in the early days of the Somme offensive.

Kseavill

There is a GD Cowlishaw listed inthe Sheffield City Battalion book by Ralph Gibson and Paul Oldfield. Its brief says, he was a student at Sheffield University. Could this be your uncle?

algy

07-01-2005, 18:09

Originally posted by JoePritchard
There is a novel called 'A covenant with death' by John Harris, which my father-in-law introduced me too, which we're both convinced is about the Sheffield Pals - there is a lot of background stuff in the novel that almost certainly points to Sheffield as the origin of the unit that is described in the pages.

My grandfather was quite a lucky fellow - he was wounded on the first day of the Somme, July 1st 1916. He got shelled and woke up a PoW, and spent the rest of the war in Germany helping on a farm.

If anyone's interested in the land war in WW1 in general I have a reasonable reading list that I could PM or post to people.

Joe Covenant with Death is about the Sheffield pals, thinly disguised (Redmires becomes Blackmires etc). I think John Harris was a journalist in Sheffield when or just before he wrote it, but I'm not certain. Either way it's a good read. :thumbsup:

Cols

07-01-2005, 23:57

If anyone missed the Time Flyers programme about the Sheffield Battalion it's on TV tonight (Saturday 8th). You'll need freeview though. 22:00 UK TV History channel. It's followed at 22:30 by the Derwent/Ladybower dam episode.
Well worth watching.

K Seavill

08-01-2005, 20:45

Retep,

Many thanks. Is that the 1901 census you are referring to? I think that is the last official record I have of Godfrey, other than my grandfather recalling his parents getting a telegram informing them of his death (telegram has long since disappeared). He was old enough to signed up at the very start of WW1.

Siren,

Thanks. I came across the G D Cowlishaw in the book you mention, but as far as I am aware Godfrey had no middle name and was working as an architect at the time he signed up to the Pals, but very many thanks for taking the time to reply.

Kseavill

retep

08-01-2005, 21:48

Yes i have found him in 1901 and 1891 census

JoeP

08-01-2005, 21:53

Originally posted by algy
Covenant with Death is about the Sheffield pals, thinly disguised (Redmires becomes Blackmires etc). I think John Harris was a journalist in Sheffield when or just before he wrote it, but I'm not certain. Either way it's a good read. :thumbsup:

Hi Algy,

Thanks for this! I thought as much when reading it. My Father In Law lives in Edinburgh and when we visited he was aksing me about the environs of Sheffield and we gradually concluded that that it was Sheffield being written about.

I became interested in WW1 after learning about my own grandfather and following the career of Percy Topliss, the 'Monocled Mutineer', who was born not far away from where I was bought up in Nottinghamshire.

Joe

Gleighton

11-01-2005, 16:23

to K.Seavill. Will add him on my list to do when I go to the Local Studies in Sheffield next. My dad still lives in Sheffield so I go quite frequently. Will send info If I get any straight to your web address.

K Seavill

11-01-2005, 18:32

Gleighton,

Many thanks indeed for this kind offer. Any evidence of Godfrey's war record/time with the Pals appreciated. I would like the CWGC to recognise his contribution/sacrifice.

Does anyone reading this thread know if the majority of Sheffield men would have joined the Pals (Yorks & Lancs regiments) at the start of WW1, or would there have been other regiments recruiting in Sheffield at this time?

kseavill

sliby01

11-01-2005, 19:26

i beleve the Sheffield Pals battalion was part of the 31st division of the fouth army along with hull,leeds,barnsley,accrington and hull pals .They attacked on the first of july but were mown down by machine gun fire mainly in no mans land .A very few managed to reach serre itself but were soon wiped out. Serre was to stay in german hands until the german retreat of 1917. Both my grandfathers were there in 1916 , one was gassed and died a few years later. The other lived into his 80's and returned for a visit in 1976. I've been many times since , it gets hold of you.

algy

11-01-2005, 20:16

Originally posted by K Seavill
Gleighton,

Many thanks indeed for this kind offer. Any evidence of Godfrey's war record/time with the Pals appreciated. I would like the CWGC to recognise his contribution/sacrifice.

Does anyone reading this thread know if the majority of Sheffield men would have joined the Pals (Yorks & Lancs regiments) at the start of WW1, or would there have been other regiments recruiting in Sheffield at this time?

kseavill
A large number of the pals were students from Sheffield University, with a large number of academics, prfessionals, managers etc, as well as ordinary working men. A lot of men in Sheffield would have been in reserved occupations in the armaments industry for part of the war. The West Riding Company(?) of the Royal Engineers also recruited locally, and they followed the Pals into the camp at Redmires, using the training area on Hill 60 above the dams. Their Territorial successors are still I believe based at Somme Barracks in Sheffield, though I may be out of date:)

Gleighton

11-01-2005, 21:08

Idon't know much about my grt uncle. It was just as If he needed to be found. Nothing has come down through the family at all. My Granma[his neice never mentioned it as I was about 16 when she died and my Dad didn't know. Family history certainly has a lot to answer for. I was donig someone a good deed by looking for an inscription in Burngreave Cemetry records and found my family there with John Henry Kelk burial listed for the 1st ww. What goes around comes around!!!

K Seavill

14-01-2005, 19:13

Thanks for all the useful postings. It gives me more ideas for how to continue my search for Godfrey's war record.

KSeavill

algy

25-01-2005, 14:51

Originally posted by JoeP
There is a novel called 'A covenant with death' by John Harris, which my father-in-law introduced me too, which we're both convinced is about the Sheffield Pals - there is a lot of background stuff in the novel that almost certainly points to Sheffield as the origin of the unit that is described in the pages.

Just found a bit more about John Harris Joe, he was from Rotherham, was a journalist and cartoonist on the Sheffield Telegraph in the 1950s when one of his early wartime action novels The Sea Shall Not Have Them was made into a highly rated film . So he knew the story of the Pals pretty well:)

algy

27-04-2005, 12:38

If anyone is interested two of the team investigating the trenches at Redmires are giving a talk about it to a meeting of Friends of the Porter Valley, at Bents Green Methodist Church Hall at 7.30 on the 4th May. Non-members welcome, entry £2.

Hopman

27-04-2005, 12:54

To K Seavill,

The following may be of interest to you (taken from a message board I belong to):

"I have noted with interest the good advice offered in response
to your
question. However, I feel that I should point out that it is
not necessary
to visit Kew to inspect these army records; they are also
available for
inspection via your local LDS Family History Centre. You do not
mention the
name of your ancestor, but as you are researching the name
HUGHES, I will
use this as an example.

WO 361 Records. These are known as the "Unburnt documents".

These files are organised alphabetically by surname and given
name.
Information includes unit name and number, birthplace, age at
time of
enlistment and name and address of next of kin and may include
names of
parents, spouses and children. The surname HUGHES is contained
in boxes
numbered from 5698 to 5733 inclusive.

For the names
Alfred C. HUGHES to Burnett HUGHES, your require LDS film
2028744
Cecil C. HUGHES to Douglas H. HUGHES, film 2028745
Edgar F. HUGHES to Ernest W. HUGHES, film 2028746
Evan HUGHES to George HUGHES, film 2029488
George HUGHES to Henry HUGHES, film 2029489
Henry HUGHES to James HUGHES, film 2029490
James HUGHES to John HUGHES, film 2029498
John HUGHES to John Joseph HUGHES, film 2029499
John Joseph HUGHES to Louis B. HUGHES, film 2029500
Louis O. HUGHES to Pryce HUGHES, film 2029501
Ralph HUGHES to Samuel HUGHES, film 2029502
Samuel HUGHES to Thomas HUGHES, film 2029503
Thomas HUGHES to William HUGHES, film 2029504
William HUGHES to William H. HUGHES, film 2029505
William J. HUGHES to Wynddyn HUGHES, film 2029506

WO 363 Records. These are known as the "Burnt Documents".

About 70% of these records were destroyed during the Blitz in
World War ll.
Many of the remaining damaged records can be read. To the best
of my
knowledge, those filmed so far, are: -
A-E; F; N-O, Q and T, which suggests that the surname HUGHES has
not been
filmed or maybe even salvaged.

WO 364 Records. These are known as the "Third Collation", which
is made up
of misplaced records, which could not be returned to their
correct location.
These files are organised alphabetically by surname and given
name. The
films you would require are as follows: -

Walter HUDSON to John HUGHES, film 2112568
John HUGHES to Edward Thomas HULATT, film 2112569.

I hope this helps,*

*Likewise

Hopman

K Seavill

27-04-2005, 17:35

To Hopman,

Many thanks for your detailed reply about the 'burnt' war records and local family history centres.

I am actually searching for the war record of Godfrey COWLISHAW, son of Thomas Henry and Harriett Cowlishaw of Manor, Sheffield, brother of Cyril Cowlishaw (whose war record I have located).

I think someone else on this thread must have been searching for HUGHES.

Many thanks anyway, and I will try to follow the advice you give in furthering my own searches.

K. Seavill

Wingrove

28-04-2005, 19:43

Hi Katherine

Please send me an email address where I can chat with you. We are quite closely related, My grandfather on my mothers side was Frank Cowlishaw, the brother or Harrold.

I am living in Tanzania at the moment, but by chance I have a number of the Cowlishaw records with me. This includes the Babtism records from the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Sheffield from 1858 to 1966

Just to make sure that we have the right tree, I can give you the following information that you can check with yours.

Thomas Henry Cowlishaw was married to Harriett and had the following children

1883 Elizabeth
1885 Godfrey
1887 Herbert
1889 Albert
1892 Cyril
1895 John
1899 Harrold (married Bessie Edna)
1902 Frank ( my Grandfather )
1905 Ena

Harrold was a school teacher. I believe you have an uncle David cowlishaw who married a Portuguse girl?

wingrove@cats-net.com or gm@harbourview-suites.com

Grantham

29-04-2005, 22:48

An interesting site about the Sheffield Pals with pictures

http://www.pals.org.uk/sheffield/

glynn

30-04-2005, 08:38

Hi all,

Does anyone, or has anyone ever heard of an airfield or the like at Redmires during WW1. I heard somewhere that there was one, but cant find any reference to it.

Glynn.

algy

30-04-2005, 08:53

Originally posted by glynn
Hi all,

Does anyone, or has anyone ever heard of an airfield or the like at Redmires during WW1. I heard somewhere that there was one, but cant find any reference to it.

Glynn. The field next to the army camp was occasionally used by aircraft, but I don't think any were based there.

glynn

30-04-2005, 10:01

Have you ever seen any information appertaining to the field ?.
If so can you remember where you saw/read it.

Glynn

algy

01-05-2005, 09:50

I can't remember off hand, but I'll try to find it. It was with some information about airfields around Sheffield, mostly about Norton, but there was a mention of redmires as well. I'll see what I can find.

glynn

02-05-2005, 06:12

Thanks Algy,

Any help will be very much appreciated.

Glynn.

algy

06-05-2005, 12:19

Originally posted by glynn
Thanks Algy,

Any help will be very much appreciated.

Glynn. Hi Glynn, still can't remember where I saw it, but I've done a bit of digging in the local Studies library, and come up with the following:
"The old racecourse adjacent to the Redmires camp had, as early as 1912, been used as a landing strip by pioneer aviators. Gustav Hamel, who flew the first ever airmail (between Hendon & Windsor Castle in September 1910) arrived at Redmires from Buxton in August 1912 and spent 3 days giving exhibition flights. On Whit Tuesday 1914, Sheffield aviator Marcus Manton, then only 19 years old, gave flying demonstartions to some 8,000 spectators.
The use of Redmires airstrip as a military airfield was soon realised, and between March & October 1916, it was frequently used by 'A' Flight, No 33 Squadron, RFC, flying BE2c aircraft. No 33 Squadron had its headquarters at Gainsborough, and was established to defend the industrial areas of South Yorkshire and the north Midlands against enemy airship attack. Redmires was one of the Squadron's night landing fields. It ceased to function as an airfield during the war." This is from "From Bailey to Bailey" by S. Johnson. It's out of print but I found a copy in the Local Studies Library. There's also info about a WW1 airfield at Coal Aston, and RAF Norton in the same book. PM me if it's any interest and I'll send it, since it's not really to do with this thread. I also remember hearing a caller on Radio Sheffield telling a tale about when he was a child in the 1920's he was sent to the camp which was now a smallpox isolation hospital. One day a plane landed in the next field, and the kids who were allowed out ran to the wall to watch. The pilot, who was obviously using an old wartime map, came over and asked whether this was the Redmires Army camp, and having got the reply "No mester, it's a smallpox hospital" ran back to his plane and took off rapidly!:thumbsup:

aliscruton

14-06-2005, 19:12

This is a fantastic website!!

I'm currently trying to find out about my Great Grandfather Arthur Robert Brightman. It's believed that he joined the Sheffield Pals (he was a coal miner) but was tragically killed when going to the coal mine to say goodbye to his colleagues (a coal truck broke loose & killed him) This happened around March 1916. He was buried at Tinsley Park cemetry. Unfortunately I can find nothing to support this story........

relight9

01-10-2005, 11:19

Hi Algy & Glynn

I was born and grew up around Ecclesfield / Grenoside, and have for many years asked about a rumoured landing ground in the Ecclesfield area during WW1.

I think it was mentioned in a popular book a couple of decades ago called 'Action Stations' but i have not been able to find any reference to it in local forums since , and no local history groups can find any record either.

As a pilot (microlight) i want to re-kindle links with old airfield sites, especially from the WW1 era, when flying really was flying.
If ex-sites allow i want to consider visiting them with a microlight aircraft, CAA permitting of course.

Have either of you , or anyone else heard of an Ecclesfield landing ground ?

TheRedWizard

05-10-2005, 19:00

Really interesting thread. I'm currently writing a history of Sheffield from the armisitice of 1918 through to the middle of the '20s - exploring how the peace and ensuing trade depression effected the city and how its population responded. The experiences of the ex-servicemen who returned from the conflict are fascinating, and how their ideas and perspectives were shaped by the sights which they had seen and the experiences they had endured.

The reason for this post is to emphasise how powerful the memorials around Serre are, and that anyone interested should take the opportunity to visit. We did so a few weeks ago. Many Sheffielders do visit. The landscape is so quiet and desolate you get the impression nobody has visited for years - the memorial books and comments from visiting Sheffielders show otherwise.

Part of the line is preserved as a memorial wood, which was one of the copses from which the Sheffield and Accrington Lads launched their ill-fated attack. The view towards Serre is a huge ploughed field with a small cemetary in the centre - part of the the no-mans land of the Battle of the Somme. Other cemetaries close by were the final resting places of the rest of the 'lads'. There are various memorials in the wood itself, including a wooden cross built in memory of Albert Bull (I think - I'm writing from memory) who was found in 1928.

Our city memorial in Serre is in need of urgent attention. It looks slightly grimy, the inscription is fading and a small chunk of it has broken away - it would be great if we could get something sorted out. I intend to write to the council etc. The cemetaries are in perfect condition, and much thanks should go to those responisble for their upkeep.

If you're off to France try to visit Serre - the experience will be unforgettable. If anybody would like me to send them digital photos please do not hesitate to pm me.

hector

12-10-2005, 19:56

I have been trying to find a copy of the book
"Sheffield City Battalion" ISBN 0950789275

I have scoured the Internet and put out book searches - all to no avail.

Last week I contacted the publishers Wharncliffe Books. They told me that the book is now out of print - but they would consider reprinting it if enough interest was shown.

They say that 'enough interest' is for 200 people to contact them and register with them. I mailed them again this week to ask how many people had contacted them - only 34 have registered an interest.

Hopefully there are more people out there with an interest in the Sheffield Pals who will contact Pen and Sword at

Wharncliffe Books
47 Church Street
Barnsley
South Yorkshire
S70 2AS

Tel: 01226 734555 Fax: 01226 734438

TheRedWizard

12-10-2005, 20:04

Do you have an e-mail address for them? I can think of at least half a dozen people who would buy a copy.

There are copies available second hand on the internet, but I can only find them at between £120-£300!!!!

hector

13-10-2005, 17:26

"Sheffield City Battalion" ISBN 0950789275

the e-mail address to register interest in the above book is:

enquiries@pen-and-sword.co.uk

every registration counts!!

algy

13-10-2005, 19:56

Originally posted by hector
"Sheffield City Battalion" ISBN 0950789275

the e-mail address to register interest in the above book is:

enquiries@pen-and-sword.co.uk

every registration counts!!

one more added! Thanks for the info.:thumbsup:

Yellowrose

13-10-2005, 20:35

My partner had a copy of this book, and we spent an hour today searching frantically for it ... sadly no luck. One more place to check, (inlaws garage) then we give up.

hector

13-10-2005, 21:49

I've just sent another email to Wharncliffe Books (copy below).

************************************

After reading an article by Anna Smith that was published in the Sheffield
Star on the 89th anniversary of the battle of the Somme, I understand that
Wharncliffe Publishing have said that they hope to reprint the book if
enough interest is generated. According to the article a spokesman said " If
someone enquires about the book we mark it off. So far we've had 50 calls
but about 200 are needed before it is considered."

**************************************

Hello again Katie,

As you know I am very interested in buying a copy of the "Sheffield City Battalion" so I've been trawling around the Internet. The above quote is from a message posted on the ENG-SHEFF forum July 2005.

Can I presume this means that you had the 50 calls referred to in the article in the Sheffield Star PLUS the 34 calls confirmed in the message to me making a grand total of 84..... and counting. Obviously the number of calls can't have gone down between July and October.

TheRedWizard

14-10-2005, 10:31

Have e-mailed them and encouraged others to do so. You might find it worth mentioning:

- The 90th aniversary next year, which would make it a landmark republication

- The amount of digitalised photos which are now available through surrey st. which could make this a fantastic and visually v.impressive republication.

All the best,

TRW

Highnote

14-10-2005, 10:55

Hector, thanks for the e.mail address re the hopeful re-publication of Sheffield City Battalion, like others I have searched high and low, even military bookshops in Belgium and France,A re-print would be appropiate for the 90th anniversary next year of the start of the Battle of the Somme, and if anyone is interested the hotels etc and battlefield tour companies are being rapidly booked up for this remembrance occasion.
To walk these battlefields and sites and visit the CWGC cemeteries in the area is something very very special and humbling.

hector

14-10-2005, 17:52

I've just e-mailed Wharncliffe Books again and suggested that they read this thread on the Sheffield Forum. Then they will see for themselves that the "Sheffield Pals" are NOT forgotten.

If anyone out there hasn't already registered with them - please do so soon - it only takes a few minutes but could mean so much.

aliscruton

15-10-2005, 06:12

Just emailed them!

Ali:thumbsup:

Gleighton

16-10-2005, 09:23

Just e-mailed Wharncliffe books. That's another one on the list, Gwyneth

hector

16-10-2005, 20:42

Just a quick "THANK YOU" to the people who registered their interest in the book "Sheffield City Battalion" with Pen & Sword

I've just had a look on the Pen & Sword webpage. 'Manchester Pals' has been reprinted and 'Accrington Pals' has been re-released due to popular demand.

I wonder if 200 people had to register with Pen & Sword to get those books re-released?

hector

19-10-2005, 13:34

This is the latest from Pen and Sword.

Why did you publish in the Sheffield Star that you'd had 50 contacts back in July? How could the figure go down between July and October? Is somebody having difficulty counting? Or are you saying that the Sheffield Star published incorrect information? Also are you saying that only one person other than myself has registered an interest? I've had emails from more than one other saying that they'd contacted you.

----- Original Message -----
From: Katie
To: Joan Marsden
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Sheffield City Battalion

36

Pen & Sword Books Ltd
IMPRINTS INCLUDE:
Wharncliffe Books
Pen & Sword Aviation
Pen & Sword Maritime

47 Church Street
Barnsley
South Yorkshire
ENGLAND
S70 2AS

Tel: 01226 734555 Fax: 01226 734438
www.pen-and-sword.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Joan Marsden
To: Katie
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Sheffield City Battalion

What does the tally stand at now please Katie?

Regards,
Joan Marsden

hector

19-10-2005, 18:19

The latest from pen and sword.....

These fifty are old requests recorded manually on paper and will also be taken into consideration as to a re-print. However my director wants an additional 200 new responses as the old requests include people who have moved away, passed away and some are even been duplicated. The requests I spoke of are the ones stored on e-mail file, I had not opened all of my e-mails this morning when I responded to you and did not have all of the other responses open. We are not obliged to give out this information to anyone other than Mr Gibson. I have only been trying to help with your queries and would prefer in future if you contacted Mr Gibson to ask about responses.

Regards
Katie

Pen & Sword Books Ltd
IMPRINTS INCLUDE:
Wharncliffe Books
Pen & Sword Aviation
Pen & Sword Maritime

47 Church Street
Barnsley
South Yorkshire
ENGLAND
S70 2AS

Tel: 01226 734555 Fax: 01226 734438
www.pen-and-sword.co.uk

PopT

19-10-2005, 18:25

Good News!

I've received an Email today to say the printers are going to reprint the Old Pals book.

Power of the press--or Forum!!!!

Happy Days!

hector

21-10-2005, 20:08

Lovely - that was not the impression that 'Katie' gave in her last email.

When you know the release date please could you put it on the Forum please. I live in the south of England - the Forum is my link to my old home.

Highnote

03-11-2005, 16:14

I have just received an e.mail from Katie to say Pen and Sword books are to reprint The Sheffield Pals in slightly revised form, smaller hardback format in June 2006, to me that does not matter we shall be able to get this book,Cheers everybody!!!

aliscruton

03-11-2005, 21:09

Yes - fantastic news!!! - may I just say thanks to Hector for all his time & effort in achieving this result...

Gleighton

04-11-2005, 07:08

yeah I got an e mail as well. Will buy a new copy when it's released as my old copy is well thumbed and falling to bits.

hector

04-11-2005, 15:32

Thanks for the kind words aliscruton - but all the people who registered with pen-and-sword helped to sway the reprint.

TheRedWizard

09-11-2005, 21:49

Well done everyone! :)

Yellowrose

30-12-2005, 18:32

Would anyone like to buy a second hand copy of

Sheffield City Battalion

by Ralph Gibson and Paul Oldfield

Paperback (1988)

In generally very good condition, considering its age. It has one loose page. It is stamped inside no 174, so I presume it is a limited edition.

PM me if you would like to make an offer.

Barbarian

31-12-2005, 08:55

I've only just seen this thread. Are you aware there are photographs of the pals Bn (known as York & Lancs) hanging in the corridors of Endcliffe Hall as well as a considerably amount of history, old medals etc. Generally they are not available to the the public to view, as this is still run by the Army(TA). Up to recently this was still HQ, Duke of Wellingtons regiment, which is now our local regiment having amalgamated Yorkshire vols and York & lancs. Endcliffe was recently taken over by the RAMC (medics), I don't know what happened to the photos. Perhaps if you are genuinally doing research, an approach to the TA to view the photos and other memoriblia wouldn't be turned down? Endcliffe itself is worth a viewing inside, the history, the photos, paintings, and the magnificent open staircase. Smashing place.

davidgibson

09-01-2006, 22:05

Hi everyone

I have just found this forum.

I have been campaining for my dads book to be reprinted for some time now and I contacted Anna Smith at the Star to see if they would write an article about the book being out of print.
I had no idea people on this forum were already in touch with pen and sword.
As you know pen and sword have agreed to reprint the book, its being reset in the new format at the moment, and will be published before the anniversary.

I'd like to thank everyone who contacted pen&sword to help get the reprint done and ensure that those brave Sheffield lads will not be forgotten.

Thanks again
David Gibson

hector

22-02-2006, 19:14

Is the reprint of the book 'Sheffield City Battalion' still on track? Does anyone know the release date yet?

jass

04-04-2006, 14:17

Latest edition of Sheffield Pals due out in June. Not sure if it's still on target.

Highnote

04-04-2006, 19:55

I was speaking to Pen and Sword books on Friday morning last and it will be definitely be published and probably before July !st.Keep looking!!

Falls

04-04-2006, 23:35

The Battalion suffered an awful fate along with the Acrington Pals who I believe were also trained at Redmires. They suffered such heavy casualties that they had to eventually be disbanded. It's amazing to think that the front line trenches were only 25 yards apart in some places.

If you want to see front line trenches that are close together, take a trip to Vimy Ridge: Less than 20 feet there. So close that they could hear the enemy's conversations.

As you probably know, Vimy Ridge was finally taken by Canadian Troops and at the end of the War, France ceded the Battlefield to Canada. Its administered by the Canadian Goverment's Department of Veterans Affairs.

MysTique

13-06-2006, 20:47

Just been reading through this thread as after doing some more family history it turns out that one, possibly two, of my relatives were in the Sheffield City Battalion.

The links are very useful - some very interesting reading, but does anyone know if there is a list of names of those who enlisted anywhere?

Is the reprint of the book 'Sheffield City Battalion' still on track? Does anyone know the release date yet?
Having done a search today it seems the book may be released this Thursday 14th June. Found it Here - Play.com (http://www.play.com/play247.asp?source=327&page=title&Cur=257&r=BOOK&title=909856&tduid=93abd2d0230474ea98f2ca941a913deb):clap:

TheRedWizard

14-06-2006, 18:49

Fantastic - I'm going to order my copy now!

hector

14-06-2006, 20:35

My copy is ordered - can't wait to see it.
Thanks to everyone who registered with Pen and Sword and helped to persuade them to reprint the book.

pfn1

16-06-2006, 13:07

Only just come onto this thread. really interesting info and links. Its good to see local history and heritage is still important for many people.

My Uncle, Private Willie Morton from Sheffield joined the 12th Battalion. He was one of the lucky ones and came back alive and in one piece. After he died we had some of his soldiers papers, his diary etc, most of which we eventually passed onto the 12th Batt Yorks and Lancs museum which I think was at Weston Park, but has now moved to nearer Rotherham. The collection is always viewable, all you need to do is telephone beforehand to ask about specific items and arrange an appointment, so they can be got out ready.

His diary covered the training period here at Redmires, down south and abroad. But he stopped writing during the times they were at the frontline in the big offensive, other than to occasionally write, 'nothing much happened today' which with hindsight are some awfully understated few words, but which also say an awful lot. I still have his soldiers bible in which he write down a few flowery words as spoken to them by one of the Generals before all the carnage.

I have a letter of his in which he says that after the attack on Serre, the Battalion regrouped in a nearby orchard and they were all shocked at how few they were.

Its great that a reprint of the book is finally being done. A while back I managed to obtain a copy of the earlier version of the book for around £20, which sounds like it is in a larger format than the proposed reprint. It was from a second hand dealer who specialises in military books. He is John Marrin his website is www.johnmarrin.com There are plenty of other similar dealers out there but I guess you need some luck too when searching.

They should never be forgotten. Its just a real bad shame that it wasnt the war to end all wars after all.

Regards to all
Paul Norton

Teabag

16-06-2006, 18:32

Visited Serre a number of times. It is slightly surreal to wander through a small French village and then see the Sheffield wheatsheaf crest on a white plinth.
Sheffield Memorial Park is always so well kept by the WGC

It is a fascinating visit

If you are unfamiliar with the overall story of the pals battalions then could I recommend a book:

Martin Middlebrook: First Day of the Somme....great populist account

Tuppie

17-06-2006, 22:02

Aliscruton.

I'm currently trying to find out about my Great Grandfather Arthur Robert Brightman. It's believed that he joined the Sheffield Pals (he was a coal miner) but was tragically killed when going to the coal mine to say goodbye to his colleagues (a coal truck broke loose & killed him) This happened around March 1916. He was buried at Tinsley Park cemetry. Unfortunately I can find nothing to support this story........

Aurthur Robert BRIGHTMAN aged 34 Miner of 4 Cooper Place Darnall was buried at Tinsley Park 3rd April 1916.Grave # W35c
Also in the same grave is Arthur BRIGHTMAN aged 15m son of Betsy Ann of 4 Cooper Place Darnall buried 15 Jan 1917.
With the date you should be able to find a reference to the accident in the newspapers, there would most likely be an inquest.

Tuppie

redrobbo

17-06-2006, 22:50

newfella

22-06-2006, 14:06

You can find service details of WW1 service people on the national archives sight, this includes individual service records (they are so old as to be outside the Privacy Act constraints).

If you find details of the people you are interested the NA will supply copies, beware though it can be quite confronting to find very stark records of fallen family members.

Unfortunatly there is a lot missing from this period as the storage building was hit in the blitz during round 2.

Plain Talker

22-06-2006, 15:40

The Lord Mayor, Cllr Jackie Drayton, is paying a visit to France, as it is the 60th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme, and I believe she is going to visit Serre.

I understand there are a number of houses in or near Serre, built by public subscription raised by the good folk of Sheffield at the end of World War I, in memory of the Pals. Does anybody have any knowledge or details about this?

I think it'll be the 90th anniversary, Red... ;)

the housing thing was mentioned in another thread, about asylum seekers and refugees.

I have a stunning photograph of my Grandfather, in uniform, with his regiment in WW1.

It's very touching to see all those young men who most likely would not have made it back, in one piece, if they made it back at all.

My Grandpa had his knee shot away by a sniper. He was not even out of his teens, haviing lied about his age to join up. (As so many did) He'd have been about 16/ 17 yrs old when he joined up.
PT

MysTique

26-06-2006, 20:22

I was talking to my step-dad about the Sheffield Pals, his dad and my grandad were both in the Battalion and luckily survived.

After bombarding him with questions he disappeared for a while and came back with a large briefcase filled with original documents, newspapers, books and a big photo album with many, many photographs of his dad and the Battalion, mainly at Redmires. I found it fascinating to go through and, like PT said, very moving to think that the majority of them never came back.:(

With only a few more days to go before the 90th Anniversary it's been interesting to see some of the news articles on the BBC showing some of the areas as they are today.

Plain Talker

27-06-2006, 09:46

I found my grandpa's discharge papers, a few days ago.

He gave his birthdate as 1899, instead of 1900, which was the real year he was born. He signed on, on the 16th October 1916, so he'd have just missed the sommme, but not the battles after.

His papers state that he saw active service overseas. He was just turned 16 when he enlisted. It just doesn't bear thinking about. All those young men, who were just cannon fodder, really. What a sacrifice

My grandpa was demobbed on the 23rd October 1919, almost a whole year after the armistice was signed.

PT

aliscruton

27-06-2006, 18:50

Aliscruton.

Aurthur Robert BRIGHTMAN aged 34 Miner of 4 Cooper Place Darnall was buried at Tinsley Park 3rd April 1916.Grave # W35c
Also in the same grave is Arthur BRIGHTMAN aged 15m son of Betsy Ann of 4 Cooper Place Darnall buried 15 Jan 1917.
With the date you should be able to find a reference to the accident in the newspapers, there would most likely be an inquest.

Tuppie

Hi Tuppie,

My mum's had a look in the archives in the City library but to date hasn't found anything. His death certificate states the he died of cardiac failure following 8 days of pneumonia. I'll have to come and do some research myself one day 'Little Arthur' as he's known to my mum, died of influenza. Betsy Ann lived on until 1970!

Teabag

27-06-2006, 20:03

Short excerpt here in todays Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,,1799319,00.html

Also a good site can be found at:

http://www.webmatters.net/france/ww1_serre_sheffield.htm

Highnote

28-06-2006, 14:07

The book Sheffield Pals,The Sheffield City Battalion is now available from Pen and Sword books!!!!!At last.

JoeP

29-06-2006, 11:06

The following Press Release comes from SYPTE today :

Sheffield bus commemorates 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme

To coincide with the 90th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme this Saturday (1 July) the Transport Executive has named a Sheffield bus after the French village of Serre where many Sheffield men tragically lost their lives courageously fighting in the trenches around the village.

The 201 bus service, which runs between Sheffield, Stocksbridge and Meadowhall, is just one of a series of buses which have been named after local historical events, legends and South Yorkshire heroes.

During World War 1, Lord Kitchener decided to raise an army of volunteers to be known as ‘Pals’ from across the UK. Within a week 1,000 Sheffielders from all walks of life had signed up, including students, clerks, teachers and businessmen. Many of the men were brothers, cousins and friends all fighting alongside each other.

After 18 months of training the Sheffield Battalion arrived in France, their objective was to re-capture Serre, a small hamlet which had been in German hands since 1914. On 1 July 1916, the Sheffield City Battalion fought alongside the Accrington Pals in a heroic but unsuccessful attempt to capture Serre.

Sadly 513 officers and men from the Sheffield Battalion were killed, wounded or missing from this battle and were laid to rest in the Luke Copse Cemetery, the British side of no man’s land. After the war, Sheffield placed a memorial in the village of Serre to the Sheffield Pals Battalion and in 1936 the Sheffield Memorial Park was opened on the side of the British front line below Serre.
Robert Shepherdson from the Transport Executive who is behind the initiative of linking rural buses with historic events said: “It was a great way of remembering and honouring South Yorkshire’s heritage.”
"We decided to name all the rural buses after local pieces of history and we are very pleased with the positive comments it has generated. It is a great way of getting the local community talking about history and, of course, generating local interest in public transport.”

Some of the other names of the Rural Links buses include The Clayminer, Ebenezer Elliot, The Clock Tower, Samuel Fox, Nijinsky, Tickhill Castle and Paganus.

ENDS

heeleygirl

29-06-2006, 12:22

My grandfather and his eldest son were both at the Somme. They were lucky to to get back, but both died with Spanish Flu when they returned home. It left my grandmother with three children and pregnant with my mother who was born 9 weeks later. Because they were not killed in the war there was no financial help for my grandmother and the family had a very hard time. After my grandmothers death we found a letter from "Sheffield Gardians", a charitable organisation that she had approached for help. They suggested that the three older children were put "into service" and that she and the baby, my mother, should go into the workhouse. Thank heavens she did not take this advice. She brought her children up, though it was hard work being a "buffer girl". Not much thanks for fighting for your country and being led by a bunch of idiots in those days.

MysTique

29-06-2006, 17:00

So the Sheffield Pals now have a bus named after them. Whilst I appreciate it's a nice gesture, I still can't understand why the Museum is now based in Rotherham and there is no other reference to that particular Battalion. :confused:

Unless, of course, I've missed something?

TheRedWizard

01-07-2006, 09:09

90 years on this morning.

" On Saturday 24th June, the British artillery opened a bombardment that over a 5-day period was intended to destroy the German defenses completely. Each night the battalion sent out raiding and wire-examining parties; ominously, the German wire was found to be incompletely cut. On 28th June, word was received that the attack would be postponed for two days because of the poor weather. The new time for the start of the offensive was 7.30am on Saturday 1st July.

The day before the offensive began badly with the news that Lt-Col. Crosthwaite was seriously ill, necessitating his hurried replacement by Major Plackett. At 3.45am on 1st July, the battalion was in position in the assembly trenches, finding them already in an atrocious condition from German shellfire. Patrols from the 4th and 7th Companies of the 169th (8th Baden) Infantry Regiment defending Serre noted the build-up. With the appearance of daylight at 4.05am, German artillery began to shell the British front line.

At 7.20am the first wave of the battalion moved 100yds into No Man's Land and lay flat on the ground as the brigade mortar battery and divisional artillery placed a final hurricane bombardment over the German front line. A few minutes later - with the British front line coming under an intense counter-barrage - the second wave took up position 30yds behind the first.

At 7.30am the bombardment lifted from the German front line. All four waves rose, took a moment to align themselves, then advanced steadily towards the German lines into a devastating hail of machine gun bullets and shellfire. An ineffective smoke screen exposed the battalion to machine gun fire from the left as well as from ahead. The third and fourth waves, caught on the opposite side of the valley, were reduced to half strength before even reaching No Man's Land. On the left of the battalion front, long stretches of barbed wire had been left uncut. Men brought to a halt in front of the inpenetrable entanglements were reduced to firing vainly through the wire to the German lines beyond. Only on the right of the attack were a few men somehow able to force their way into the German trenches; amongst them were Lt. Charles Elam, 12/371 Pte. Albert Fretwell and 12/1003 Pte. George Mulford. Some found themselves alone and managed to return to the British lines. Others were never heard of again.

Within minutes it was as if the battalion had been wiped off the face of the earth. Cpl. Signaller Outram recalled that as far as the eye could see, the last two men left standing on the battlefield were himself and another signaller, A. Brammer. They signalled to each other. Outram turned his head for a moment, and when he looked back Brammer had gone.

On the right of the Sheffield City Battalion, the Accrington Pals made greater inroads into the German trenches but were unable to hold on to the hard-won gains. The battle for Serre was lost.

The Aftermath

The remnants of the battalion were taken out of the line in the evening of 3rd July, having lost 513 officers and men killed, wounded or missing; a further 75 were slightly wounded.

Distinguished Conduct Medals were awarded to 12/338 Pte. Bertram Corthorn, 12/727 Pte. S. Matthews and 12/275 Pte. Geoffrey C. Wright. Military Medals were awarded to 12/24 Pte. H. C. Arridge, 12/1164 L/Cpl. M. B. Burnby, 12/354 Pte. A. Downing, 12/923 Pte. C. S. Garbutt and 12/443 Pte. R. Marsden.

Throughout the long months of the Battle of the Somme, Serre remained uncaptured, falling into British hands only after the German withdrawal to the Hindenburg Line in February 1917.

Although the battalion was gradually returned to strength, the "Pals" character was unrecoverable. During the harsh winter months of 1916-17, an almost unbelievable 887 officers and men of the battalion were evacuated to hospital. For two spells in May 1917 at Arras, the battalion defended the vital Windmill spur in the Gavrelle sector, suffering 143 casualties, before playing a successful part in the attack at Oppy-Gavrelle on 28th June. The battalion was again to suffer in German gas attacks at Vimy Ridge in August and September 1917. Finally, in the early weeks of 1918, the weakened battalion was forced to disband.

After the war, Sheffield placed a memorial in the village of Serre to the men of the City Battalion who had fallen in the attack of 1st July 1916. In 1936, the Sheffield Memorial Park was opened on the site of the British lines below Serre. Sheffield had served the memory of its boys well."

hector

07-07-2006, 17:34

My copy of the Sheffield Pals book by Ralph Gibson and Paul Oldfield arrived yesterday. I am so pleased with it. It was well worth the wait for the reprint.
I bought it from Amazon - £13.19.

walt

10-07-2006, 21:33

my cousin archie brammer was killed,on the 1st day of war aged 22,according to the corpral he was with ,there was just them too,then archie dissapeared,im glad i know where he is ,i will visit one day soon.

I visited the Somme last month.
Here is a picture of Sheffield Memorial Park on the Somme with Railway Hollow Cemetery in the background where Archie is buried.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/Rawson21/P9140045.jpg

This is a picture of his gravestone.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/Rawson21/P1010041.jpg

TheRedWizard

10-07-2006, 21:39

That's incredibly thoughtful of you Walt - hope one of the mods can e-mail pauline to let them know about your post.

pauline

13-07-2006, 22:56

hello walt,many thanks for the pictures,bless you for taking the troule to take them,thanks,pauline

Alibongo

15-08-2006, 19:48

Hello. I am trying to find out about the army record of my great uncle who served in the Pals. He was called Arthur Clifford Baynes, known as Stainless Stephen to many because he later became quite a famous music hall and radio comedian. Arthur gets a couple of mentions in the Oldfield/ Gibson book, but I want to know whether or not he was actually at the Somme battle. My father Alan Baynes helped the authors and gets a mention in the acknowledgements which is exciting, but he died a few years ago so there is no one to ask. Is there anywhere I could find out this info online or elsewhere? If anyone has any other info on Stainless Stephen, or any of the Baynes family (Southey Green Road) I would be grateful. My dad Alan was for many years treasurer / secretary of Sheffield Amalgamated Anglers Society - any anglers out there might remember him!

Plain Talker

15-08-2006, 20:15

alibongo

did you see the star tonight?

there was a feature about your uncle, Stainless Steven, in there this evening.

PT

Alibongo

15-08-2006, 20:31

wow! what timing - I am in Nottingham so can't get the star. I will see if it's online. Thanks!

Plain Talker

15-08-2006, 20:35

wow! what timing - I am in Nottingham so can't get the star. I will see if it's online. Thanks!

Pm me an address, and i will cut out the article and send it to you...

Alibongo

15-08-2006, 20:40

thanks..I now just have to work out what 'pm' means!

Alibongo

15-08-2006, 20:41

private message!....I have to have posted 5 threads before I can 'privately message'! I tried to find the article online but no can do

joantel

12-09-2006, 13:35

I visited the Somme last month.
Here is a picture of Sheffield Memorial Park on the Somme with Railway Hollow Cemetery in the background where Archie is buried.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/Rawson21/P9140045.jpg

This is a picture of his gravestone.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/Rawson21/P1010041.jpg We are going back to the Somme on the 26th September for three nights to lay poppy crosses on the graves of men who served in the same company as my Grandfather A Company 7th Service Battalion Yorks and Lancs.On the 1st July we were there for the 90th,and next year we will visit Passchendale.If anyone has a relative buried near where we are,we will willing take a picture and place a cross for them.This time we are staying at Avrils Place,her home has been shown a few time on TV,some of the original trenches have been unearthed and the first aid station in the cellar is open for visititors

Joan

walt

14-09-2006, 21:38

joantel

15-09-2006, 16:28

Joan

I am sure you will have a great time at Avril's. The accommodation is basic, but the evening meal and first world war conversation are second to none. I stayed there in June for the second time.

Auchonvillers is an excellent base for visiting the following places on foot. Newfoundland Memorial Park, Beaumont Hamel, Hawthorn Ridge, Hawthorn Ridge, Hawthorn Crater, White City, the Sunken Rad, Redan Ridge, are within a mile. Serre Road and Sheffield Memorial Park ( Sheffield Pals Memorial and Railway Hollow Cemetery) a further mile.

Enjoy your trip, visiting the Somme is always a moving experience .
Walt,
Thank you the information,it will be nice for my husband to talk with people who are interested in WW1,our Grandchildren ages 14-13 and 11 have been several times to both the Somme area and Ypres and have learned quite a lot,our eldest Grandaughter now would like to become a History teacher because of what she has learned about both wars.

Joan

T.Atkins

01-10-2006, 23:51

Hi
My first post on this forum.
Born as I was, some 15 years after the end of WW2, it was perhaps inevitable that I grew up, as most boys do, re-enacting battles, making models of aeroplanes and vehicles etc from that war. In my early twenties however, all that changed when I read that marvellous book that has been mentioned a few times on this thread, 'Covenant with Death' by John Harris. I have re-read it many times since and have 'devoured' as many books, films and programmes as I can on WW1 with a particular interest in the first day of the Battle of the Somme and the 'Pals' Battalions.
My Great-Grandfather served in the war with the Sherwood Foresters and, surviving (albeit with a permanently withered arm from a bullet wound) settled on the Isle of Wight where my immediate family still live.
I have been directed to this forum by research I am doing into two namesakes (Buttery) who were both killed on the 1st day of July 1916. One served with the 2nd Battalion of the KOYLI and the other, a Private J.A.Buttery with the 12th Battalion of the York and Lancaster Regiment. Imagine my suprise (and joy..if joy is the right word in the circumstances) to find that a namesake had served with the Shefield City Pals....the thinly disguised subject matter of the book that started it all for me. I dont have any other details for J.A.Buttery (not even his christian names). I know that he is buried in Railway Hollow Cemetery but I'm wondering whether anyone knows of a regimental site that i can visit that may make some mention of him. His service number is 886 so I assume that he would have been in the first 1000 to sign up?
I'm also fascinated by the idea that the other namesake (John Buttery) who served with the KOYLI fell on the same date and possibly in close proximity. What I haven't quite fathomed yet though is why he was there at all....as yet, I cant find any mention of the 2nd KOYLI being present on the first day, though I must confess that my research in that direction has not gone very far as yet. Any information anyone could impart would be gratefully received.

retep

02-10-2006, 07:49

CWGC just put this in google

Has J A Buttery 887
Parents John Robertson Buttery and Marina

looking on 1901 census,
john r buttery 54
marina 49
arthur r 24
edith 15
john a 11

living in the parish of st phillip sheffield

free bmd, john arnold buttery 1889 ecclesall bierlow

the other one ?
John Buttery 26078 age 19 parents john and annie 6 kingston st goole

T.Atkins

02-10-2006, 19:18

Thank you very much for your efforts. At least now I have christian names for my Pals Battalion namesake. How strange that both should carry the same name (John Buttery). Buttery is not a very common name here down south...imagine it is more common in that neck of the woods.

Poignant as well to see his name come up on the 1901 census as an 11 year old. Just think, 15 short years later...

Thanks again.

firesmudge

11-10-2006, 08:15

follow this link to find a picture of the redmires training trenches truly amazing other pictures of Sheffield available as well great to look at. Google Earth also shows a good picture of the same area http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/v/pennines/hill60-redmires-aa00663.jpg.html

TheRedWizard

11-10-2006, 22:50

I've been meaning to post these pictures of where the lads went over the top since last year - apologies if some of the captions aren't right, I'm working from memory.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic077.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic084.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic050.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic069.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic076.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic046.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic056.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic060.jpg

Feel free to print/copy/re-use etc.

TRW

Plain Talker

12-10-2006, 08:43

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n66/TheRedWizard_2006/Pic076.jpg

wow! the picture of poppies in the field is really evocative.

the pictures are excellent. thankyou

Cols

12-10-2006, 20:27

Nice pictures, it brings back memories of my trip there, a couple of years ago. One moment was very poignant for me. We were at the Thiepval monument and I was walking around the edge of the woods and came across a small human bone on the ground. It was either a finger or foot bone. I called over my friend who dug a hole with the heel of his boot and we left it where we found it.
Another part of the tour, we were in Ypres. The guide was showing us the battlefields and we were stood on the edge of a farmers field. The farmers regularly plough up old shells and bombs and leave them in little piles to be collected for disposal. Just to the side of me was a rusty cylinder of metal which I picked up to show everyone. The guide went white and told me to put the thing down very carefully. He explained that although they look all rusty, inside, the devices can be well greased and a number of people are killed every year by explosions. Lesson learned !!!!!

tatoogoo

01-11-2006, 19:35

I'm trying to find some information on my grandfather Ernest Wright who was in the Sheffield Pals. I am led to believe by 'family tradition' that he was one of only about 6 who returned and that his name appeared on a memorial somewhere. If anyone can help with specific information or can tell me any more about when and where he served, I would be most grateful. I know he was gassed and his health was never very good afterwards although he lived to a fair age. Before the war he lived on Bramall Lane and after the war he moved to South View Road. Thanks.

debjohn

01-11-2006, 19:57

one of my relatives William Blenkarn was a lance corporal in the Yorks&Lancs
12 Sheffield Battalion . He was killed 10/09/1916 France/Flanders I think he had a mention in the paper but I have nt found it

cat631

01-11-2006, 20:06

Hello Tatoo. I've just looked at the index at the back of The Sheffield City Battalion, there are 13 Wrights but none with the initial E.

cat631

01-11-2006, 20:14

Hello Debjohn. Your relative is listed in the Sheffield Battalion Book. Says: Born Burngreave, 1891. Killed in action 10th Sept 1916 Loose Memorial

cat631

01-11-2006, 21:44

Hello Firesmudge. Thanks for that link, there are some great pics on it.

retep

02-11-2006, 08:24

Jossman

02-11-2006, 11:57

Having been born during the last months of WWII, April ,45 I too played "War" and was influenced to such an extent that at the age of 15, I joined the Royal Navy as a boy. On reaching the age of 19 and with 4 years service under my belt I joined HMS Ickford, a seaward defence vessel in Singapore. We had a total of 17 ship's company including the 2 officers. In that year '64 Indonesia declared war against Malaysia and saw us as allies defending the Malay Peninsular and Borneo Confrontation. Sorry for the history lesson, but, my point is, that in reality war is very heady stuff and when that reality sets in, the real horror is realised. At 19 I was witnessing small warships in action with the dead and wounded being brought back from Borneo as deck cargo. These included Paras, SAS and Ghurkas, victims of jungle warfare. Not a pleasant task or sight. We were engaging small Indonesian warships sometimes in very heavy small arms fire.

My heart will always go out to the victims of any war and their families. War is a hideous and damaging way of conducting disagreements between any countries. Only the common people suffer, not the politicians that send them away under a flurry of flags and pompous glory speeches.

JoeP

09-11-2006, 14:55

Hi all,

I thought this might be of interest - a Press Release from the Passenger Transport Executive :

STARTS

PALS WILL ALWAYS BE REMEMBERED.

The Sheffield Pals Battalion was honoured on 7 November with the official launch of a bus named in respect of those who fought in one of the most courageous actions of World War One.

In a mark of remembrance, Lord Mayor, Councillor Jackie Drayton and a senior officer from the regiment cut the ribbon to name one of South Yorkshire’s Rural Links buses ‘Serre’.

The unveiling was part of the ceremony hosted jointly by the Lord Mayor of Sheffield, and the York & Lancaster Regimental Museum to celebrate the new edition of a book on the Sheffield Pals Battalion by Ralph Gibson.

At the Town Hall event David Young, Head of Transport Integration at the Transport Executive presented Colonel Norton, a Senior Officer of the Regiment and Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Yorkshire, with a model of the ‘Serre’ bus and a copy of the storyboard that is on permanent display inside the working bus.

The storyboard follows the battle for Serre, a small hamlet on the northern side of the Somme in German hands since 1914, and one of the strongest strategic points on the front line.

Within 18 days of arriving in France in 1916, the Sheffield Pals had advanced to the front line opposite Serre. On 1 July 1916 during the first day of the Somme offensive, they fought a heroic but unsuccessful attempt to capture the fortified hilltop of Serre.

More than 500 officers and men from the battalion were killed, wounded or listed as missing.

“In Sheffield brothers, cousins, friends and workmates enlisted together and within just over a week the Sheffield Pals reached its full capacity of 1,000 men,” said David Young.

“We feel that naming our bus Serre is a small but heartfelt way of commemorating the courage and selflessness of a generation of young South Yorkshire men.”

Serre is one of nineteen named rural buses in South Yorkshire and is operated by Stagecoach Yorkshire on Service 201 between Sheffield, Stocksbridge and Meadowhall.

END

Teabag

09-11-2006, 19:47

That is a very thoughtful gesture :thumbsup:

tatoogoo

11-11-2006, 21:45

Hello Tatoo. I've just looked at the index at the back of The Sheffield City Battalion, there are 13 Wrights but none with the initial E.

Thanks, sorry it took so long to get back to you. I've done a bit more digging and I now think that maybe my grandfather wasn't in the Sheffield Pals after all despite family having told me categorically that he was.. Two things lead me to believe that he must have been in some other part of the conflict, maybe at Ypres or the Somme - one is that he was definitely gassed with mustard gas (which he was lucky to survive) which I don't think was used on the Pals and the second is that I believe that he joined up as a boy soldier at the age of 14 having lied about his age, partly to get away from a foster family with whom he was living. Now I'm back where I started and don't have a clue how to try to find more information as there are no family members left alive who might have more info.

Thanks for your efforts.

debjohn

14-11-2006, 19:00

thanks for the info about william blenkarn, his niece is still alive and she was very interested, apparently he was a sunday school teacher engaged to be married,after his death his fiancee never married

joantel

25-11-2006, 09:50

waddy

25-11-2006, 10:06

My father in laws uncle george was in the 13 bn york and lancaster ww1.He was killed in france.

waddy

25-11-2006, 10:21

Thanx joantel.I have looked on the military website and have his number where he was buried and when he died.His name was george waddingham a serjeant in the 13 bn york- lancaster 1917 1918

joantel

25-11-2006, 10:35

Thanx joantel.I have looked on the military website and have his number where he was buried and when he died.His name was george waddingham a serjeant in the 13 bn york- lancaster 1917 1918
Hi waddy,I am sorry,but cannot find his name in the Barnsley Pals book,it does say the list of names is far from complete,which does seem a shame.

regards

joantel

tatoogoo

25-11-2006, 15:08

Hi,
I have just looked through my copy of the Barnsley Pals book The 13th and 14th Battalions Yorks and Lancs Regiment and there is a E Wright mentioned serving with C company.Hope this is of some help to you.

regards

Joantel

Thanks, I'll try to follow this up.

algy

21-05-2007, 19:24

Hi Algy,

Thanks for this! I thought as much when reading it. My Father In Law lives in Edinburgh and when we visited he was aksing me about the environs of Sheffield and we gradually concluded that that it was Sheffield being written about.

I became interested in WW1 after learning about my own grandfather and following the career of Percy Topliss, the 'Monocled Mutineer', who was born not far away from where I was bought up in Nottinghamshire.

Joe

If anyone's interested there's a copy of 'Covenant with death ' on ebay at the moment, starting price £3

spots1

05-06-2007, 20:56

Hi,my grandad was in the york.lanc.reg. but not sure where he went out to have tried to find out his reg.no but to no avail.... would anybody out there.. be able to help....his name was George Henry Widdowson lived in Woodhouse and was married to Sarah Anne Widdowson. He didn't die out there but I never knew him as he did die young.

could any body help with my search?

earlgirl

12-10-2007, 19:29

Replying to Alibongo, whose great -uncle was Arthur Clifford Baines.
My father was a friend of his and they fought together at Serre, where my father was badly injured, and evacuated to France to hospital. After the war, they must still have remained friends, because my eldest brother remembers "Stainless Stephen" coming to open our garden party at East Markham, nr Retford, about 1937. I believe your great -uncle was wounded twice. He also gave a performance in front of WW1 Allied Commanders, as well as a private show at Windsor Castle.

tonio

13-10-2007, 16:37

I remember about 40 yrs ago reading a novel based on the story of The Sheffield Pals.It was also serialised in The Star.Does anyone know it's title as I would love to read it again

cat631

14-10-2007, 14:45

I remember about 40 yrs ago reading a novel based on the story of The Sheffield Pals.It was also serialised in The Star.Does anyone know it's title as I would love to read it again

See post 126 by Algy. Covenant With Death by John Harris.

BorderReiver

14-10-2007, 18:47

My grandfather served with the 1st/4th (Hallamshire) Battalion, York & Lancaster Regt. 1914-1919 If any one is interested there's a book of the same title written by Captain D. P. Grant M.C., M.A. who served with the Battalion and recorded their "exploits" thru' WWI.

The book can be ordered through The Naval & Military Press Ltd. email: order.dept@naval-military-press.com

irene dicker

06-12-2007, 09:44

remembranceb

06-12-2007, 12:47

You could try remembrance-book.com/familytree/ancestry/ancestry.htm

There's links to the UK Birth, Marriage,Death Indexes from 1837 to 2005 and British Phone Books from 1880 to 1984

dean1

06-12-2007, 15:30

Hi Irene, his attestation papers might have survived the bombing of ww2. these can be found at the national archives on-line. these,if they have survived, should give you loads of personal info on your grand father.
also try and find, and download, his medal index card, this should show the units he was in, and his medal entitlement. with this you can then track his route through the great war.
Dean.

DUFFEMS

06-12-2007, 16:36

dean1

06-12-2007, 16:58

Duffem's, spot on.
Dean

geocol

06-12-2007, 17:19

Hello
Does anyone have any info about who served with the 'sheffield pals'. I am trying to find out about my grandfather Harry Payne who lived on Rockimgham St. It has gone down thru the family that he was a sergeant major and had a military funeral when he died in 15 december 1921, but cannot find anything to verify this.. I heard he was in hospital after some kind of accident about 1915/16 and when he died he died of some kind of blood poisoning because of an old wound. any info would be greatly appreciated
many thanks

irene

If your grandfather received a pension between his injury, and death - as sounds likely; then his records would have been duplicated in a different section which survived; whereas the majority were destroyed in an incendiary raid during WW2 .
They should now be available at Kew (if you fancy half a day there, sometime, as I'm not sure when these will be available online).
These records are refered to under a different "name". They are what they call "364's"?

These records will give full details; including dates and the hospitals he was in.
A visit there is welll worth the effort and rewarding; especially if you can combine it with something less sobering in a weekend.
Good luck... hope you find what you are looking for.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/150.htm?homepage=mh-ww1

Tuppie

06-12-2007, 19:07

These records are refered to under a different "name". They are what they call "364's"?

WO363 British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 -

WO364 British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920

are both available online at www.ancestry.com

Tuppie

KivWaHistory

08-12-2007, 09:39

irene dicker

01-02-2008, 09:17

Hello
Does anyone have any info about who served with the 'sheffield pals'. I am trying to find out about my grandfather Harry Payne who lived on Rockimgham St. It has gone down thru the family that he was a sergeant major and had a military funeral when he died in 15 december 1921, but cannot find anything to verify this.. I heard he was in hospital after some kind of accident about 1915/16 and when he died he died of some kind of blood poisoning because of an old wound. any info would be greatly appreciated
many thanks

irene

Hi
Sorry to have been so long in replying. My grandfathers full name was Harry Payne he was born in 1875 and when he was younger he lived in the outibridge/stocksbridge area. I have his death certificate but it didn't say where he was buried, if he did have a military funeral and the whole family walked behind it it must have been pretty near Rockingham St This is all i know about him and any help in finding his grave or service record would be appreciared

many thanks
irene

irene dicker

07-02-2008, 10:32

hi
does anyone have the names who were in the sheffield city battallion [the sheffield pals] i am trying to find if my grandfather was in His name Harry Payne

Any help would be greatly appreciate

Many thanks Irene

cliffordbay

18-02-2008, 12:53

algy

05-06-2008, 11:56

There's been mention of the work the archaeologists have been doing on Hill 60 over the past few years. They've now published their report. If anyone is interested in a copy PM me and I'll give you the contact email address. The cost is £3, (including postage etc). They're being printed in batches on demand, so thee may be a slight delay in delivery.

crookesey

05-06-2008, 12:14

My grandfather was just about to take the Kings shilling at Edmund Road barracks in 1914, he was 15 years old. His aunt marched in and told the recruiting sergeant to go forth and multiply before giving my grandad a real good hiding.

He told me that it was the best thrashing he had ever had as all his pals who joined up were killed.

dennisrichar

09-06-2008, 09:50

my cousin archie brammer was killed,on the 1st day of war aged 22,according to the corpral he was with ,there was just them too,then archie dissapeared,im glad i know where he is ,i will visit one day soon.
Hi Pauline
Archie Brammer was related to me through his mother Ada Smith. Are you from the Smith line or his father's line William Henry Brammer?
Regards
Dennis in Cockatoo, Australia

Teabag

09-07-2008, 21:08

I see the WEA have a course running on the pals

'The Sheffield Pals and the First Battle of the Somme'

In September 1914 Sheffield responded to Kitchener’s nationwide recruitment of volunteer soldiers. These volunteers formed what became known as ‘Pals Battalions’. This course examines the formation of the Sheffield City Battalion, 12th Yorks and Lancs. Through an exploration of primary and secondary sources we trace Sheffield City from their initial training at Redmires to their action on the Somme in July 1916.

Pre-enrol on 2423609 by 9th Sept.

Telephone: 0114-2679934 to book a place on the course

Course reference: C3647205

Course duration:
24 September 2008 to 03 December 2008
Course day(s) and time(s): Wed 19:00. This course will run for 10 sessions of 2 hours each.

Course fees:
Standard course fee: £61.00 for the ten sessions
Reduced fee: £53.00 (Click here for further information on reduced fees)

Venue information:
Voluntary Action Sheffield
The Circle, 33 Rockingham Lane, Sheffield S1 4FW

Galbraith

10-07-2008, 14:27

Apologies if the website below has been listed before, or may not be of interest to some. It was only seeing this thread that it hit home to me that my home town Pals were together with my adopted home town pals at Serre.

Right, I'm off to read the thread from the beginning.

http://www.pals.org.uk/pals_e.htm

algy

10-07-2008, 14:56

walt

10-07-2008, 22:04

Teabag

11-07-2008, 11:27

At the risk of being pedantic (or just plain wrong) isn't 69 Division St currently a pile of rubble?

Not pedantic but correct!!

The WEA website is wrong - I phoned them today and the course is being held at

The Circle, 33 Rockingham Lane, Sheffield S1 4FW

algy

11-07-2008, 12:00

Shame, I thought WEA were really going for it, sitting in a dugout among the rubble, very atmospheric!

biker

11-07-2008, 12:52

I came across this Roll of Honour for the Sheffield City Pals - 12th Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment today. I thought it may be of interest to someone.

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~exy1/fh_material/City_Battalion_Roll.html

Do you know how I could find out if my uncle was in the 20th Hussars in WW1 ?.He survived the war and his name was Albert Wright .He was born,and lived in Sheffield.

retep

11-07-2008, 18:29

You could try the WW1 Campaign Medals,

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=10&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1

dean1

11-07-2008, 18:47

sugiff

26-08-2008, 13:52

Hello, I'm a new member of these boards.
Although I've no personal connection to the Sheffield Pals; I read Covenant with Death in my early teens when it was first published and was blown away by the simplicity of the writing and story yet its immense power. I've no idea how many times I've read it since but could probably do ok on Mastermind on the topic!
As a result of the book, I've researched the Sheffield Pals purely out of personal interest including the Pals series and the Richard Sparling work. For a southerner with no knowledge of the north, it took me a while to work out its base as Sheffield and since then, I've been to Sheffield to visit the Library and the old newspaper offices, the Town Hall and Bramall Lane ground. I've also been to Serre on the 1st July a couple of times. As yet, I've not been to Rotherham to the regimental museum. Is there much there on the topic?
I would so love to enrol on the new course on the City Battalion but, alas, live far too far away to contemplate a weekly visit. Is it possible to e correspond with someone who intends to enrol?
I guess part of my fascination is to look behind John Harris's words, ie although it is a work of fiction, much will be recognised by those who were there. Certainly, the words spoken by Sgt Bold - come on, they cant shoot for toffee - appear in Richard Sparling's memoire. Was Locky Haddo based on an actual reporter? Was Mark Fenner based on one of the old soldiers known to John Harris? And was Bold himself a regular soldier transferred into the City Battalion?
I also missed the Redmires programme on tv. Anyone any idea whether it's available on dvd?
Any information gratefully received.
ps. the book would make a wonderful film.

biker

26-08-2008, 15:07

Hi Biker,
checking the National Archives,
there is a Medal Index Card for an Albert Wright, 20998 Pte Hussars,

1 for an Albert R. Wright, 3195 Pte Hussars,

and 1 for an Albert Wright, 2975, Saddler/Quartermaster Sgt.

i cant find an A. Wright as an Hussar casualty on CWGC, so it appears all three of the above survived the war and could be your Albert.

The cards can be downloaded(£3.50), or in colour from Ancestry if you have a subscription. These cards will tell you which Battalion etc.

Dean.
Sorry to be so long in replying.Thanks for the information.Will the Medal Index Card have his address on it as he lived on Button Lane and that would prove that I had the right Albert Wright. My reason for believing that he was in the Hussars are family talk of him having 3 horses shot from under him and a 20th Hussars badge in my mothers effects.Are there any recruiting lists showing who enlisted for the 20th Hussars and where they lived? Thanks again

Beery

27-08-2008, 21:34

Birdsong is a great book about WW1. One of the best - if not THE best - is The Middle Parts of Fortune. Excellent book!

dean1

31-08-2008, 13:20

Sorry to be so long in replying.Thanks for the information.Will the Medal Index Card have his address on it as he lived on Button Lane and that would prove that I had the right Albert Wright. My reason for believing that he was in the Hussars are family talk of him having 3 horses shot from under him and a 20th Hussars badge in my mothers effects.Are there any recruiting lists showing who enlisted for the 20th Hussars and where they lived? Thanks again

Hi Biker,
i think it looks like 20998 Albert Wright may be your uncle, 2975 was born and lived in Surrey, 3195 was with the 7th Hussars.

20998 Wright, 20th Hussars, was discharged to Class Z Army Reserve on 20.6.19 This meant he could return to civilian life but could be called back at any time.
There is no address on his MIC, you only usually get this if there has been correspondence Re medal entitlement.
All Guards papers still exist i think at their barracks in London, they were not kept with all the others that got bombed and burnt in the 2 ww!
hope this helps,
Dean.

biker

31-08-2008, 13:51

Hi Biker,
i think it looks like 20998 Albert Wright may be your uncle, 2975 was born and lived in Surrey, 3195 was with the 7th Hussars.

20998 Wright, 20th Hussars, was discharged to Class Z Army Reserve on 20.6.19 This meant he could return to civilian life but could be called back at any time.
There is no address on his MIC, you only usually get this if there has been correspondence Re medal entitlement.
All Guards papers still exist i think at their barracks in London, they were not kept with all the others that got bombed and burnt in the 2 ww!
hope this helps,
Dean.Thank you very much for your help and information.I will try to find their address and contact his old regiment

Tuppie

31-08-2008, 22:11

Hi.

Each Guards regiment has their own archivist.

The address is:

The Archivist
RHQ (then the name of the guards)eg. Coldstream, Scots etc
Wellington Barrracks
Birdcage Walk
London
SW1E 6HQ

Tel: 020 7414 3081/3246

I have called in twice for records of Coldstream Guards...one being my fathers attestation papers.

Tuppie

biker

31-08-2008, 22:21

Tuppie

01-09-2008, 06:19

Hi Biker.

I'm not sure either...I thought they were a Cavalry regiment,

Tuppie

dean1

01-09-2008, 08:14

Hi,
Tuppie is right, the Hussars are Cavalry of the Line,
their papers should be at the NA. There is also the Cavalry museum at Combermere Barracks, Windsor.
Dean.

biker

01-09-2008, 14:02

Hi Biker.

I'm not sure either...I thought they were a Cavalry regiment,

Tuppie
Thanks again

biker

01-09-2008, 14:03

Hi,
Tuppie is right, the Hussars are Cavalry of the Line,
their papers should be at the NA. There is also the Cavalry museum at Combermere Barracks, Windsor.
Dean.

Thanks again.Is NA the National Archives?

kezashez

05-10-2008, 21:48

There is now a Sheffield City Battalion page on facebook which my husband has created.

Teabag

21-10-2008, 10:32

As previously mentioned in the thread, I am currently teaching a WEA course, 'The Sheffield Pals and The First Battle of The Somme'.

We have had a number of people sign up for the course via the Forum, which has been terrific.:)

Just to say we have started a course blog - this is a multi author blog for people on the course to post their thoughts, pics etc.... It is early days for the blog but I thought a few of you who regularly contribute to the thread may want to have a quick look....you will find the blog at this link

http://sheffieldpals.blogspot.com/

Please feel free to leave your thoughts in the comment boxes. We have just started to add to the links on the page that may help people in their own research projects/interest about Sheffield City

As part of the course we are planning a walking tour of Redmires with the help of Sheffield University - if anyone out there is interested then please pm me

It is anticipated that this 10 week course will run again after the Xmas break, if anyone is interested

Thanks:thumbsup:

hank

21-10-2008, 18:44

Hi Teabag
A relative of mine was in the Pals Bn and was kia 1/7/16. at the age of 18, having enlisted under age. I am presently researching his life.
I would like to join your visit to Redmires in December and hopefully the course at WEA
Can you post joining details for the course etc and tel no
Thanks

Teabag

06-11-2008, 15:08

The Sheffield WEA are offering a local history course on the Sheffield City Battalion after Xmas

The course begins on Weds 13th January, 7pm - 9pm and runs for 10 weeks and we have 7 places left.

The course venue is the old vicarage at Attercliffe - 3 Vicarage Road, Attercliffe, Sheffield S9 3RH

The cost of the ten week course is £55 but zero if you are unwaged or in receipt of benefits

If you are interested in attending the course you can find more info or enrol by telephone on: 0114 242 3609

or e mail : yorkshumber@wea.org.uk

You can also pm me if you want more info

The course is running at present (we have 4 weeks left!) and was fully subscribed and to get a flavour of the course you can visit our current course blog at:

http://sheffieldpals.blogspot.com/

Look forward to hearing from you:)

News update

The annual Remembrance Parade through Dore village in Sheffield, to the war memorial outside the church, will take place on Sunday 9th November at approx. 10.30am. The parade will again be supported by the local scouts and the ATC corps. The parade will again be led by The City of Sheffield Pipe band.
For anyone who may be interested, the pipe band will be performing again on Sunday at the the Winter Gardens in the city centre, from approx 1.00pm.:thumbsup:

barnie41

06-11-2008, 21:15

Pte Frank Hall killed 15.9.15., of the battalion. He is related to my grandmothers side, and we think only about 18 when he died. I understand that they were digging trenches out towards the German lines, but not yet found out exactly what the circumstances were. His family were the Halls from Hillsborough, my grandparents were called Goddard, also from Hillsborough.

I'm at the Cenotaph each year, but it makes it far more poignant when one of those poor lads is so close to home, so to speak.

iamwoody

13-11-2008, 12:56

My copy of the Sheffield Pals book by Ralph Gibson and Paul Oldfield arrived yesterday. I am so pleased with it. It was well worth the wait for the reprint.
I bought it from Amazon - £13.19.

In the rear of the book it tells of an extra set of details available from pen and sword detailing all the known men who served in the battalion and various other things for £10. I,ve just phoned pen & sword to order this and have been told they have decided not to publish this at all, does anybody know where else i could get this type of info ? thanks greg

clarp

13-11-2008, 15:48

Have just found this thread during my own family history research. Looks like there are some good links and pieces of info re the 12th York and Lancaster. My Gt Grandmother's brother was in the regiment (Charlie Evans). He joned up in 1915 and was one of the lucky ones who lived to tell the tale, leaving the regiment in 1919 and living until the mid 1960's.

Damkina

13-11-2008, 21:59

After trying to find out some details about my Great Grandad Lawrence Whyman of the Yorkshire & Lancaster Regiment from my Mum, I finished up hunting for him with my sis for the last couple of ours online.

We finally found his service records about 30 mins ago and all sorts of information about him. All we knew beforehand was that he was in the Somme, was shot and had his cheek blown away. Part of his er... bum cheek was taken away to reconstruct his face.

Can someone tell me, it says 'Date of Entry', this means he joined up on the 13th April 1915 and was at Encliffe Hall? It looks to us as though he got four medals. Would he have been in the trenches alongside the 'Pals'... would he have been one of them?

He was born on the 27th November 1894 and married on the 3rd Febuary 1917 aged 22.

It's a bit late now, but I'm hoping to get onto the NA tomorrow to get information about what the shorthand is on the records of his medals etc.

If anyone knows how we can find out who he may have served alongside, when he was shot and the circumstances, we would be extremely grateful.

Damkina

iamwoody

14-11-2008, 12:48

this sounds like the same thing i,m looking for , , which website did you did you find it on ? thanks

Damkina

14-11-2008, 15:19

Hi, it was in the 'Military' section on http://www.ancestry.co.uk

My sister registered so we could both use and look for the family information at separate times if we wanted.

Also, I later found a site that does the search for you, and then produces a folder for you with the information about the soldier you are searching for, what happened to him and his comrades during the battle on specific days.

It does cost, but I'm tempted to have this all set out with the history included. If interested, you'll find it at http://www.somme-1916.com

Hope this is of use to you, and all the best of luck in your search.

Damkina

iamwoody

15-11-2008, 07:48

thanks i,ll check em out.

gazzaw

22-11-2008, 00:00

Hi, greetings from Downunder!

I am looking for some help in locating information about my grandfather, George Frederick Westwood [b. 1893] who served with a Sheffield unit throughout WW1. The only absolute wartime information I have about him is a picture taken in a hospital in 1915 in either France or Belgium and childhood recollections of him talking about Passchendaele. Like so many WW1 vets he spoke very little of his wartime experiences
and I have been able to glean very little information from family sources & distance as well as time is proving a handicap for me. If anyone can give me assistance in advising good websites that could help me or if they have knowledge of George I would be most appreciative. I really want this information to pass on to my own family before memories turn into history.

More information about George. He married Florence Wright during WW1 and had 4 children. The eldest son [also George] was my father [died 2000] and he served in Bomber Command combat aircrew in WW2 completing one full tour of active duty. We emigrated to NZ in 1953 and my post-WW2 childhood memories of grandfather George in their home in Orchard Place where he and Florence were resident caretakers.

George had a brother Alfred who may also have serve in WW1 as he was born in 1897. I don't know.

Any help for this Kiwi expat Yorkshireman would be most welcome!

Go the Blades!!

Gary
Auckland,
New Zealand.

Teabag

28-11-2008, 17:58

For those interested in visiting the battlefields around Serre, a new air route is being planned for next year.

From April 2009 direct flights are scheduled between Leeds/Bradford and Albert in France- a stones throw away from Serre

I have posted a link to Jet2.com on the Sheffield City Battalion blog

http://sheffieldpals.blogspot.com/

I know its a downright plug for the site but hey......:)

Toastmaster

06-12-2008, 13:50

On the moors up at Owler Bar on the outskirts of sheffield there is a monument to the Sheffield pals. If you go up baslow road and into the carpark of the Moorlands pub and look out back over baslow road to the horizon you will just see the monument. If you look on google earth you will also see where they trained in trench digging. The trench formations can be clearly seen. Its well worth a walk up there to take a look

dean1

07-12-2008, 05:19

Damkina, 'Date of Entry' means the day he set foot on a foreign shore.
Dean.

Teabag

07-01-2009, 21:52

djelibeybi

26-03-2009, 01:55

Teabag

26-03-2009, 09:17

Just resurrecting this thread to let people know that the practice trenches and other archaeological features are still in the process of being mapped and surveyed by the University of Sheffield, with the help of lecturers and students of The Institute for Lifelong Learning.

I believe the University are still intending upon obtaining protective status for the Redmires site and some kind of memorial along with information boards to be erected.

They may be gone, but there are efforts ongoing to ensure the Sheffield Pals are never forgotten.

Great post :thumbsup: - can I add something also on that theme.

As part of the WEA course: The Sheffield Pals and The First Battle of The Somme - learners from present and the previous course are constructing a small display in the Central Library on Surrey Street to mark the pals at the Battle of The Somme. A number of people have kindly agreed to spare some of their time and expertise to the project.

Sheffield City Library have set aside a 8'/3' display board on the library staircase from the 1st July to the 18th July for us to commemorate the pals story.

A number of people have suggested a mosaic design that tells the story (in pictures or square tiles of text) of the pals from volunteering to their first action on the Somme. A local professional artist, Paul Staveley has been approached to take part in the project and he has kindly volunteered to design and paint the central lettering for the display, plus labels for each part of the story.

If you wish to take part or contribute in any way to the display - we are having an informal meet up to at the Red Deer pub (Just off West Street) on Thursday, 2nd April at 7.30pm to discuss the display over a pint -

Possible items to discuss could include:

* Precise wording for the central lettering
* How to 'chapter head' each part of the pals story
* Collecting materials for the display
* Types of materials to include on the display
* Liaising with the local press - radio incl.
* Constructing the display
* Recording the construction process
* Someone to write a short piece for the WEA website about the display

More details can be found on the blog at: http://sheffieldpals.blogspot.com/

I would welcome your ideas and expertise on any of the matters above.

Thanks - I look forward to seeing you on Thursday the 2nd:)

mike142sl

26-03-2009, 10:20

I believe the University are still intending upon obtaining protective status for the Redmires siteWHY? the hill has survived perfectly well with the only people digging holes in it being the university! A waste of time in my view.

The memorial however - a great use of time and energy, and I hope it gets made from local stone.

whissiewoo

26-03-2009, 22:19

I have just come across this thread browsing expats read the first few pages and skipped to the last - am new to this so not sure if any have made it known that Rotherham Library has a York and Lancs museum believe only open on certain days - I know this because my father was in Y&L Sheffield , joined at 16 (underage!) fought on the Somme and Ypres. I donated in 1977 his Y&L wall plague, which he made himself whilst in hospital wounded, handmade in wool with the Y&L symbols embroidered( a unicorn and lion I believe) with the flags and the braiding in relief. There was a hole at the bottom for the kings picture. I keep meaning to take my family to see this. I still have his Y&L tin. My sister has his medals.

djelibeybi

27-03-2009, 14:13

WHY? the hill has survived perfectly well with the only people digging holes in it being the university! A waste of time in my view.

The memorial however - a great use of time and energy, and I hope it gets made from local stone.

It isn't the topography which needs protecting, it's the archaeology.

You've been misinformed regarding digging on the site. The University have only dug a very small number of test pits in order to ascertain the structure of the archaeology and haven't been excavating willy nilly. Apart from anything else, excavating is expensive whereas mapping and surveying create minimal cost.

The site is being mapped by students as part of their studies therefore the investigation is not only aiding in their learning process, but is also increasing knowledge of the site. The students are doing what they can in preserving and recording the site for the people of Sheffield.

Rest assured, investigations at Redmires aren't costing the Tax Payers anything, and students at TILL are mature students, not nippers.

djelibeybi

30-03-2009, 17:39

My lecturer, Helen Ullathorne, has given permission for me to post her EM address here for local clubs, schools and organisations which would like information regarding the Redmires site.

Helen has been involved in the investigation and mapping on Hallam Moor and has produced an archaeological report which is extremely informative (I've read it myself and couldn't put it down).

Anyone who is interested in gleaning updates on the investigation of the site, or is interested in a speaker on the topic, please contact Helen Ullathorne at fcullath@pilsley84.freeserve.co.uk

:thumbsup:

Teabag

30-03-2009, 19:54

As part of the WEA course: The Sheffield Pals and The First Battle of The Somme - learners from present and the previous course are constructing a small display in the Central Library on Surrey Street to mark the pals at the Battle of The Somme. A number of people have kindly agreed to spare some of their time and expertise to the project.

Sheffield City Library have set aside a 8'/3' display board on the library staircase from the 1st July to the 18th July for us to commemorate the pals story.

A number of people have suggested a mosaic design that tells the story (in pictures or square tiles of text) of the pals from volunteering to their first action on the Somme. A local professional artist, Paul Staveley has been approached to take part in the project and he has kindly volunteered to design and paint the central lettering for the display, plus labels for each part of the story.

If you wish to take part or contribute in any way to the display - we are having an informal meet up to at the Red Deer pub (Just off West Street) on Thursday, 2nd April at 7.30pm to discuss the display over a pint -

Possible items to discuss could include:

* Precise wording for the central lettering
* How to 'chapter head' each part of the pals story
* Collecting materials for the display
* Types of materials to include on the display
* Liaising with the local press - radio incl.
* Constructing the display
* Recording the construction process
* Someone to write a short piece for the WEA website about the display

More details can be found on the blog at: http://sheffieldpals.blogspot.com/

I would welcome your ideas and expertise on any of the matters above.

Thanks - I look forward to seeing you on Thursday the 2nd