Go round any wine store or supermarket now and look at the strength of the wines. Many now (particularly the reds) are 13% and above (14% is now by no means unusual). This hadn't used to be the case. 11.5 or 12% used to be the norm.

I think it may have something to do with wines imported from outside Europe, particularly from South America or South Africa. Many of the 14% monsters seem to come from there. But even with European wines I have noticed an upward trend.

Personally, I think this is not a desirable trend, not least because after a certain point is reached the alcohol seems to predominate over the wine. Moreover, I think it probably leads people to imbibing more alcohol than they are aware of. If I wanted stronger stuff I would go for a liqueur.

Totally agree,

I've ended up having to stop experimenting and go for the mass produced Californian 12.5%'ers just to make sure i can function the next day.

Other than them the only way to find a low alc red is to go basic Italian like a Valpolicella (which is not the best at all).

I'm only talking about red of course....i won't lower myself to talk about white ;-)

There are a lot of big-figure wines around at the moment. Tis nowt but a trend, because they tend to have fairly bulky flavours too, and people are going for rather obvious fruit nowadays, just as they liked their buttery tannins in chardonnay about a decade back.

Oenologically, 15% is the maximum attainable. Simply because fermentation stops at 15% alchohol volume as the yeast dies. The alchohol is made by the yeasts feasting on the sugars in the fruit, so you need quite a ripe grape (which implies quite a sunny growing period) to actually get a wine to ferment up to 15%. Cold climate wines sometimes don't get beyond 10 or 11%.

If you dig the big flavours many of the really boozy wines give, just drink a bit less. At the right temperature you shouldn't taste alcohol in the wine anyway, just the intriguing mix of flavours from teh interaction of fruit and tannins.

A cogent point and one which I have discussed at length with other wine enthusiasts. New world wine is typically stronger (the strongest originating from California) than old world (French) wine. Many expects believe that the weather, in particular, the heat contributes to the strength of a wine. In fact, if you compare the wines of California to the wines of Oregon they are typically a percentile or even 1.5 percentile stronger.

The alcohol content of a wine can also be attributed to the winemaker and reflects on their skill to produce and blend a wine. For instance, one can taste a wine and proclaim that the winemaker has, "Overdone the alcohol and as a result masked the aroma and flavours of the fruit".

There are, however, some wines that benefit from a higher alcohol content - Pinot Noir in particular. The beautiful examples of Pinot Noir from California (in particular those from San Luis Obispo County) are 14-14.5% and carry it of with a distinguished elegance. A fine example can be found in your local Oddbins and is produced by the Avila winery (priced at £9.99) - it is a stonking 14.5%!

As for the upward trend that you suggest in European wines, I must admit that I have not noticed it myself. Mouton-Rothschild is still a velvety 12.5%, Petrus holding firm at 13% and Cheval-Blanc unmovable at 12.5 again. I cannot ever remember 11.5% being the norm, certainly French wines start at about 12 (which is really the bottom end of wine alcohol content).

My personal suggestion for you noticing that wine is increasing in potency is as follows. I feel that the British palate is becoming more astute. The British wine drinking population are beginning to share, assess and even discuss their opinions of a particular wine where five years ago this would have been discarded as snobbery. The widespread availability of wines like Jacob's Creek (which are in my opinion extremely good mainstream wines) means that we demand more of our wines. Where we would never have dared to question the viticulteur and his skill at blending a wine five years ago we are now calling them to task. I think that certain new world winemakers have become sloppy. Even Penfolds (which I hold in high regard) have gone down in my opinion of late. Whilst a lot of new world wine producers like South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and Chile seem to be becoming a bit sloppy the French are definitely heralding a comeback. A return to traditional wine-making techniques and grassroots has resulted in sales of Champagne, Loire wines and Bordeaux going through the roof.

is sheffield forum that bad that u need a strong drink to get over it?:hihi:

Originally posted by JonJParr
A return to traditional wine-making techniques and grassroots has resulted in sales of Champagne, Loire wines and Bordeaux going through the roof.

The only problem I have with French wine is the cost, you can get a drinkable bottle of Australian or American wine for about £5, but I've never had a good bottle of French wine that cost less than £15. When you're in France the cheap wine there is great, it's the stuff they export to us thats overpriced and very mediocre.

Originally posted by nick2
The only problem I have with French wine is the cost, you can get a drinkable bottle of Australian or American wine for about £5, but I've never had a good bottle of French wine that cost less than £15. When you're in France the cheap wine there is great, it's the stuff they export to us thats overpriced and very mediocre.

Actually a typical bottle of North American wine is more expensive than it's French counterpart. As for never having had a decent bottle of French for less than £15 - where have you been looking??? Try a bottle of Ch Tour Prignac, Medoc priced £7.99 at Oddbins - you will not be disappointed.

NB: Paul Masson really isn't a Californian wine.

I used to live in the south of France and I believe you still can buy a litre of French wine for 10 francs over there.

But I would not suggest drinking it.

I have this theory
What the French ship over here as wine for the British to drink, they re label it as antifreeze over there.

Mon Amis!

roussillions are often stonkingly alcoholic - and they've been about for a while.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
roussillions are often stonkingly alcoholic - and they've been about for a while.

The Roussillon wines usually range between 13 and 13.5% which isn't that strong for a wine considering some of the Californians hit 14.5%-14.6%.

It's also quite warm in Roussillon, being fairly central. In fact it gets too hot in California, South America and Australia. So they grow the grapes high up or by the coast, where the temperatures are more optimal. The warm climate (well, the sun) produces lots of sugars in the grape, which fermentation then turns into alkerol and makesshzewinesshtronginnit...

Have noticed quite a few really nice young Burgundies in UK supermarkets in the last couple of years. Really clean young things with bright fruit and a nice soft touch to balance the flintiness. And bout six or seven quid. Maybe the French are getting their export act together, realising that the Brits won't generally just cark any old cak nowadays. Incidentally, Oddbins is now part of a booze retail group that includes French chain Nicholas. I went into the Versailles branch of the latter a while ago and noticed a whole doublee bay of New World Wines. "We have to stock that," said the cove in charge mournfully, "because of ze Oddbins." Plus ca change, ca change en plus. Hurrah for Oddbins. Especially the mega Oddbins on Abbeydale Road. It is both brilliant and brilliantly local.

Originally posted by joyphil
It's also quite warm in Roussillon, being fairly central. In fact it gets too hot in California, South America and Australia. So they grow the grapes high up or by the coast, where the temperatures are more optimal. The warm climate (well, the sun) produces lots of sugars in the grape, which fermentation then turns into alkerol and makesshzewinesshtronginnit...

Have noticed quite a few really nice young Burgundies in UK supermarkets in the last couple of years. Really clean young things with bright fruit and a nice soft touch to balance the flintiness. And bout six or seven quid. Maybe the French are getting their export act together, realising that the Brits won't generally just cark any old cak nowadays. Incidentally, Oddbins is now part of a booze retail group that includes French chain Nicholas. I went into the Versailles branch of the latter a while ago and noticed a whole doublee bay of New World Wines. "We have to stock that," said the cove in charge mournfully, "because of ze Oddbins." Plus ca change, ca change en plus. Hurrah for Oddbins. Especially the mega Oddbins on Abbeydale Road. It is both brilliant and brilliantly local.

There's a mega Oddbins on Abbeydale Road? Where's Abbeydale Road? o_0

I used to get some great Oddbins deals here up north because they supply the bar I worked at. Just had to walk in and say "I work at xxxx how much is this?" and they'd knock 20% off.

Mind you, just got back from France and they've built a massive Oddbins in Calais, £2.99 for the Wolf Blais Shiraz, The Deakin and a few nice Peter Lehman wines for £2.99/£3.99 a bottle if you buy the case.... Unfortunatly they didn't stock the Chateau Moussard, although they do have it on order, but the guy knew nothing about the Penfolds Bin 707, which was rather annoying, since it's £46 a bottle over here, and I was hoping to get a cheaper case.

Originally posted by Hook
There's a mega Oddbins on Abbeydale Road? Where's Abbeydale Road? o_0


Why, tis kinda Nether Edge really, past the Broadfield pub and, conveniently, slap next door to the Grand Potato takeaway. All your calorific needs in one shopping trip.

They stock a good selection of beers and whiskey too. And it's nice and cool in there....

I'm surprised no one has yet attributed the increased strength of wines to global warming

Ah no indeed. But there is an idea that the British wine industry is growing as a result of in increasingly benificent climate. But then we could just blame the immigrants, which nobody's done yet.

My personal take;

I find most wines over 13% alcohol lack subtlety - could as well be grape juice with added vodka.

Like the rise in sales of alcopops / strong lager / stonger beers - we generally spend less time socialising than we used to - but still require the same alcoholic kick.

Thus - in my early 20's I used to go out on Saturday night at 7:30 and drink a gallon of Tetley's (something like 3.6% original gravity in those days).

Now I go out at 9:30 (married, kids etc) but I want to end up with the same blissful inane grin - therefore I'll have 4 pints and finish of with a couple of vodka and cokes (or Jack Daniels and coke).

And a lot of people I know - oddly enough who drink "real ale" - seem to equate high alcohol content of wine with quality.

Maybe we're just cheapskates - we want to get maximum hammered from minimum outlay and a 15% Aussie wine is the "dinner party" equivalent of White Lighting as drunk on the park bench.

Being a complete lightweight, i find i can't really drink wine. It goes straight to my head. It's not as bad if you can find slightly lower alcohol wines eg around 10% but usually they are just the cheap ones. :gag:

I'll stick with my un-oaked chardonnay irrespective of the alchohol content - truly fabulicious :thumbsup:

Originally posted by LordChaverly
I'm surprised no one has yet attributed the increased strength of wines to global warming

A French wine producer makes precisely this attribution in the segment of today's Today programme beginning at 07:33 ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/index.shtml

Apparently hot, dry weather makes for more alcoholic wine. They want to irrigate to correct this, but that would go against appellation contrôlée rules as currently defined.

[Link will of course be out of date by tomorrow.]