Liverpool supporter sentenced to 15 years for attempted murder in Bulgaria despite another man admitting he did it



A TEENAGE football fan has been jailed for 15 years for the attempted murder of a Bulgarian barman despite a public confession by another man.
Bulgarians in the public gallery applauded as Michael Shields, 18, a Liverpool fan, was convicted of heaving a paving slab on to the head of Martin Georgiev, 25, fracturing his skull. He was also ordered to pay £70,000 compensation.



Mr Shields, an engineering student from Wavertree, Liverpool, screamed that they had got the wrong man as he was dragged from court in the Black Sea resort of Varna.

The sentence came after Judge Angelina Lazarova declared that a public admission of guilt made by Graham Sankey, 20, an electrician from Merseyside, could not be admitted as evidence.


The full story can be read here
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1709554_1,00.html

Owdlad
Consider what would have happened if the positions had been rversed.
A Bulgarian football fan is found guilty and sentenced for a vicious attack on a British citizen.
Meanwhile , back in Bulgaria , another man , roughly the same age , says ,
" No , it wasn't him , it was me. However , I'm not going to England to face the music , I want to be tried here."
Would the British judge have acted any differently ?
Assuming that the , "confessor " did do it , it's one more example of our wonderfall football fans spreading British Culture abroad.

Owdlad.
Wondered what the lad had been up to this time ;)

Sounds like a seriously bad deal though. I reckon Foreign Affairs will get involved in this and campaign direct to the Bulgarian Government to reconsider the verdict and where the sentence is to be served.
However that does all depend if the confession by another man is concrete and official.

that's what i call proper justice - not the mickey mouse crap in this country - he would probably get some community service or soemthing -

for far too long football hooliganism has been acceptable in this country - blame it on the drink or the atmosphere - violence is violence and he should be punished -

if he didn't do it - prove it - get the scum who did it to go and admit it - if he did it he shoould get 15 years - there's no question of a fair trial if he admits to it

Originally posted by terrano
that's what i call proper justice - not the mickey mouse crap in this country - he would probably get some community service or soemthing -

for far too long football hooliganism has been acceptable in this country - blame it on the drink or the atmosphere - violence is violence and he should be punished -

if he didn't do it - prove it - get the scum who did it to go and admit it - if he did it he shoould get 15 years - there's no question of a fair trial if he admits to it

Proper justice if the have the wrong man??? :loopy:
He doesn't have to prove it. He has to be proven guilty and if, as reported, another person has admitted the offence then this is in fact a miscarrriage of justice. Read the reports before you make rash, incorrect assumptions.
No-one is questioning the wrongs of violence, just the fact that potentially the wrong person is being punished.

This has been big news here in Liverpool. The problem with Graham Sankey's confession is that, according to reports in the Echo, he hasn't signed it, he won't go into a police station to make a proper statement and has stated that he won't go to Bulgaria to face the music. The police have said that even if he makes a statment to them all they can currently do is pass it onto the Bulgarian authorities and await extradition procedures.
As far as going to Bulgaria for trial, after Mike Shields getting 15 years and having to pay 70 grand compo, he's hardly likely to be queuing up to buy a ticket to fly there.
It's a damn shame that an innocent kid has been locked up like this but it shows the inadequacies of the system when they can't right the wrong straight away.
Shields is putting in an appeal but you can bet that he'll still have to stay in jail while it's heard.
There's a march on Saturday to Downing Street by supporters, so maybe Blair might be able to do something.

Quite a few people are still calling the one convicted , "innocent "------even in the title of the Thread.I read the report that Owdlad recommended but it didn't give any details of whatever evidence the Bulgarians had against the man.
Really , we , on S.F. need to know a few more details [ if possible ? ].
The court in Bulgaria will have convicted him on the evidence presented to them ,as they would in England.
To call him , "innocent " at this stage in the proceedings seems , to me , to be assuming a lot.
The only evidence that I've read that is in his favour is the confession by the one in Liverpool------who won't sign anything , won't go to a police station and definitely wont go to Bulgaria ! The Bulgarians are not going to give that much weight are they ? Would we if the tables were turned ?
If a Bulgarian half-killed a bloke in England , would we be happy to let him stand trial.......etc.....in Bulgaria ?
Surely the , "confessor " should be prepared to face trial in the country where he has admitted the brutal crime. Are all the witnesses and so forth expected to travel to Liverpol for a trial , rather than the one self-confessed criminal travel to Bulgaria ?
Well , maybe that's what he does expect. Good luck to him and the Downing Street Demonstrators !

Like you said, this guy hasn't signed anything and has stated he won’t go to a police station or to Bulgaria to face the music.

If the Bulgarian court had sufficient evidence to convict the guy, then fine. In my eyes he's guilty!

Why do we scream blue murder when one of our citizens commits a crime in some foreign country and gets the typical sentence for that crime!

If you go to another country and commit a crime, you should take what ever punishment is deemed fit by the courts in that country! Not attempt to get sent back to the UK so your sentence can be taken in luxury (compared)!

If this guy is guilty, let him rot, if he isn't they guy who has supposedly admitted to it should face the music, but that’s never going to happen.

It Just goes to show there is no honour among scum bags!

Wibbles

How on earth does the , "confession" of one man make another's conviction , a miscarriage of justice ? That seems utterly ludicrous to me .
If someone is convicted of an offence and then somebody 1,500 miles away , later says , " Oh it wasn't him , it was me but I'm not signing anything........etc..... " , do we let the convicted one go ??
If that's the general idea , there'd be an awful lot of people walking round free and our nicks would be empty .
Good little ruse though ! You're not training to be a lawyer by any chance are you ?

Just because someone confesses to the crime, doens't mean they actually did it, does it?

Oh come on, even the times report says 'Innocent' football fan jailed for attack, didn't anyone notice the marks around "Innocent"?

From that report:
Mr Georgiev, a father of two,was attacked when he tried to calm down a mob of fans outside a fish and chip restaurant. They were smashing bottles and chanting loudly.

His attacker raised a paving slab above his head with both hands, and threw it down on his victim’s head with “full force”, the court was told. The blow left the barman in a coma, permanently brain-damaged and unable to work.

Mr Shields, described by his family as a gentle giant, has always protested his innocence, insisting that it was a case of mistaken identity.

Source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1709554_1,00.html

So, it's mistaken identity, what, were there a whole crowd of "gentle giants" then?

One final point, if some loony in (say) the US "admits" to the Yorkshire Ripper killings, do we declare Peter Sutcliffe "innocent", no, I didn't think so.

:suspect:

I agree with Foo Fighter.

From all accounts the kid was a little thug and although he may not have actually fracture the mans skull he was still in the mob attacking him.

whilst its a harsh sentence I'd rather him be in prison than being a gentle giant around Liverpool on a Friday night at after football games.

Originally posted by Fareast
Wibbles

How on earth does the , "confession" of one man make another's conviction , a miscarriage of justice ? That seems utterly ludicrous to me .
If someone is convicted of an offence and then somebody 1,500 miles away , later says , " Oh it wasn't him , it was me but I'm not signing anything........etc..... " , do we let the convicted one go ??
If that's the general idea , there'd be an awful lot of people walking round free and our nicks would be empty .
Good little ruse though ! You're not training to be a lawyer by any chance are you ?
I must have missed all those other cases you refer to. The miscarriage occurs if he is innocent..simple as..and if another person has admitted the offence then surely someone must take the claim seriously..if it turns out that the evidence used against the convicted is solid then fair enough..but its not like a judge or a jury have ever got a conviction wrong is it. Whether the person who has admitted guilt says he wants to be tried in this country or not is not the convicted persons fault.

Robbie..what accounts are these that tell us the convicted man was part of the mob attacking the deceased?? Given your reasoning should we assume the 2 Leeds fans that got stabbed in Turkey during clashes between opposing fans got what they deserved..I mean they must have been part of the group fighting what with being in the vicinity.

Jamie..no it doesn't mean he did it but if someone rang up the police saying "I planned the recent bombings in London but I'm in France" do you think the police would just say "nevermind lads...we'll get him if he ever comes back again" and just forget it. Whether he did it or not is not the point but it is another point of evidence that has to be taken seriously. You can't get any more serious than an admission.

Serapiss. The police had "succifient" evidence to convict the Guildford 4...mistakes get made.

I'm assuming he was pulled out of the mob by the police as they thought he threw it.

I'm just saying that if you hang around with people intent on trouble or part of that trouble yourself then you have to always accept the possibility that something like that may happen.

Originally posted by wibbles
I must have missed all those other cases you refer to. The miscarriage occurs if he is innocent..simple as..and if another person has admitted the offence then surely someone must take the claim seriously..if it turns out that the evidence used against the convicted is solid then fair enough..but its not like a judge or a jury have ever got a conviction wrong is it. Whether the person who has admitted guilt says he wants to be tried in this country or not is not the convicted persons fault...
But who (with any credibility) is saying this chap is innocent?

Even the papers are quoting "innocent", as in, he says he is, but then, he would, wouldn't he.

Then look at the others, his family, good, loyalty is to be admired...

...and his MP, well, a cynic would say that that's a decision based in the probable votes won by backing a "local lad".


As for courts getting things wrong, yes they do sometimes, but mostly they don't, or are you suggesting we empty the prisons "just in case"?

Face it, the guy who has admitted "doing it" has no credibility, and a Bulgarian court has convicted the right chap (probably).

All these comments about his "innocence" are really founded in a "we don't trust foreigners, and especially their dodgy courts” mindset...

...stop being so xenophobic!

:mad:

Wibbles , I can't quite see what you mean at all.
I didn't mention any other cases , although for all I know , people do sometimes confess to crimes they have or have not committed.
We are talking about a case where a man has been convicted and sentenced by a court. We none of us seem to know on S.F. any of the details of the evidence against him or what his defence was.
Now , up pops someone in his home country , who claims that he did it but this same man won't sign anything........etc.....etc......
Now what do you seriously expect the Bulgarian court to do ? How on earth can it be a miscarriage of justice when no one has been convicted , except the one man ? And even he has chance to appeal.
Can you , in a million years imagine , the Authorities in Bulgaria , saying ,
" Oh , yes , there was some evidence against him but someone in England said THEY did it , so we suppose it's true. Yeah , let him go. "
Sounds like Cloud Cuckoo Land to me .

Originally posted by robbie
I'm assuming he was pulled out of the mob by the police as they thought he threw it.

I'm just saying that if you hang around with people intent on trouble or part of that trouble yourself then you have to always accept the possibility that something like that may happen.

Its not always that easy to distance yourself from areas of trouble. I've been kicked out of nightclubs by over-enthusiastic bouncers, ejecting scrappers and I wasn't even involved..didn't even know them. I've been questioned by police in Hillsborough on matchday even though I'm not a fan of the local teams, wasn't even going to the match. Look at the bloek that got shot in london the other day..he looked foreign..he ran away..onto a tube..he must be a terrorist. Its just a lazy generalisation to make "well he must have been doing something wrong otherwise why did he get arrested"
When the 2 Leeds fans got stabbed no-one even suggested that they were potentially causing the trouble..so if they weren't was it possible that they just got caught up..a case of wrong place...wrong time??..it does happen.
Now I for one am not saying with 100% certainty he's innocent...I have no access to any of the evidence and I wasn't there. The reason for my views are because there is potentially other evidence and until it has been investigated further neither you nor I can dismiss it as "credible"

As for foo-fighters comments about xenophobia..where in my views have I expressed this?? It's not about the country he's been tried in, or any potential failing of that country's judicial system. Maybe you should open up a dictionary and understand the true meaning before you use big words??

Now I'm off to play with my 2 year old. I should get more sense out of him.

Originally posted by Fareast
Wibbles , I can't quite see what you mean at all.
I didn't mention any other cases , although for all I know , people do sometimes confess to crimes they have or have not committed.
We are talking about a case where a man has been convicted and sentenced by a court. We none of us seem to know on S.F. any of the details of the evidence against him or what his defence was.
Now , up pops someone in his home country , who claims that he did it but this same man won't sign anything........etc.....etc......
Now what do you seriously expect the Bulgarian court to do ? How on earth can it be a miscarriage of justice when no one has been convicted , except the one man ? And even he has chance to appeal.
Can you , in a million years imagine , the Authorities in Bulgaria , saying ,
" Oh , yes , there was some evidence against him but someone in England said THEY did it , so we suppose it's true. Yeah , let him go. "
Sounds like Cloud Cuckoo Land to me .

Jesus wept....I'm not saying they should just let him go. My point being there is POTENTIALLY other evidence that could mean the wrong person has been convicted so maybe this should be investigated further until we are 100% sure that this admission is genuine or not!!!!
Maybe I should have been clearer in my originla post which may have been mis-interpreted as saying "there's possibile other evidence so free him NOW"..thats not what I was trying to say.

Originally posted by robbie
I'm assuming he was pulled out of the mob by the police as they thought he threw it.

I'm just saying that if you hang around with people intent on trouble or part of that trouble yourself then you have to always accept the possibility that something like that may happen.

Fact is he wasn't pulled out of a mob at the time. There are witnesses, one of whom is the Bulgarian night porter at his hotel, that put him at the hotel at the time it happened and not at the fight. He was arrested later apparently in a round of people.
One worrying thing is that this case is either attempted murder or the slightly lesser charge of grievous bodily harm,both pretty serious offences. Amazes me how they are able to put a proper case together in less than 2 months,present it and have someone convicted in that time. This obviously calls the Bulgarian justice system into question and then gives Sankey a get out clause for going back and facing the music ie 'I won't get a fair trial' which is what he's done.
If the other lad is indeed innocent then it's a straight miscarriage of justice, made worse because the British police are powerless to send what may well be the true culprit back.
I'm all for getting violent football scumbags banged up just make sure it's the right scumbag though!

Originally posted by wibbles
...As for foo-fighters comments about xenophobia..where in my views have I expressed this?? It's not about the country he's been tried in, or any potential failing of that country's judicial system. Maybe you should open up a dictionary and understand the true meaning before you use big words??

Now I'm off to play with my 2 year old. I should get more sense out of him.
Xenophobia: Morbid dislike of foreigners.

Seems quite apt for the morbid distrust for another (foreign) countries judicial system, with no sensible basis, as displayed by some members of this forum.

Just because a weirdo "confesses" to a crime, why should a legitimate court change its considered decision?

With reasoning like yours it's as well your going to play with your two year old, you're obviously "on the same level".

:loopy:

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Xenophobia: Morbid dislike of foreigners.

Seems quite apt for the morbid distrust for another (foreign) countries judicial system, with no sensible basis, as displayed by some members of this forum.

Just because a weirdo "confesses" to a crime, why should a legitimate court change its considered decision?

With reasoning like yours it's as well your going to play with your two year old, you're obviously "on the same level".

:loopy:
I'm only going to say this once more because argueing with people like you is about as amusing as having teeth drilled.
1. Have you met said "weirdo"?? Who are you to judge this persons weirdness..I would guess you haven't so once again you are making rash judgements and assumptions..hold on..You weren't the actual judge in this case were you?? Ah its all making sense now

2. I'm not saying they should automatically change the decision merely that potential other evidence has come to light and should be investigated before a correct judgement can be made

3. I know what xenophobia means but can you please show my post which has expressed morbid dislike of foreigners.

I am bored of trying to jossle with you and post childish retorts (yes I am as guilty as you.). If you have anything constructive and reasonable to back up your views then I am more than happy to engage you in a bit of firendly discussion..if not then save it for the playground.

there was obviously sufficient evidence to convict him - so until someone proves to the same extent that he isn't guilty he should stay in jail albeit that it may be miscarriage of justice - s**t happens !

it's all right for americans to hold people without charge in guantanamo bay but it's not right for bulgarian courts to convict on evidence - come on !!! 2 extremes i know but the the principle is the same

In answer to Daverity , perhaps the Bulgarian judicial system is quicker than ours because they don't have so many mindless crimes of violence to deal with as we do ?
Also , the longer a case takes to come to court , the worse witnesses ' memories are likely to be , the more potential too for , "getting at " witnesses.
Swift justice doesn't mean injustice.
Wibbles , I quite agree that it is very easy on occasions to get , "caught up " in events and the man who was convicted is perfectly entitled to be out celebrating with his mates. If he was wrongly accused and convicted , then that IS a miscarriage of justice------what else could it be ?
But it's NOT a miscarriage of justice as it stands , as the bloke in England won't offer any serious evidence that can be checked . What on earth can the Bulgarian court do ?
They can't move lock , stock and barrel to Liverpool to satisfy a lone voice. If the man in Liverpool wont sign anything , go to a police station or go to Bulgaria , then it's just a stalemate.
If the British police can't or won't take action , who can ? He also has an appeal coming up ; maybe his fellow-Liverpudlian will have had a change of heart by then and gone to Bulgaria. He can't be frightened of a miscarriage of justice as he's confessed to it. If he's frightened of the sentence , he shouldn't have slammed a lump of concrete or something over the bloke 's head------especially as he was a guest in a foreign country. Some of these foreign police don't mess around like the British ones -------as a lot of thick-heads have discovered over the years.

Originally posted by Fareast
...But it's NOT a miscarriage of justice as it stands , as the bloke in England won't offer any serious evidence that can be checked . What on earth can the Bulgarian court do ?...
Precisely, some people (you know who you are) on this forum seem to be saying that the chap deserves to be re-tried (if not set free to do a runner back to Liverpool) solely because the other "guilty" bloke has "confessed".

Hate to point it out but, the other "guilty" bloke hasn't been found guilty of anything, nor has he even signed the confession. Sorry, but this is just a loony/weirdo deliberately seeking self publicity, and you'd have to have a mental age of less than 2 not to see that.

Does anyone know why foreign courts are always assumed to be wrong by some sections of our media/society?

Well, it's obviously not xenophobia, at least I've been reliably informed of that fact.

:rolleyes:

OK, here's my reasonable constructive bit, a court, with lawyers, and a judge, in a sovereign state has (as far as can be ascertained) fairly tried a man, and sentenced him in line with the laws of that country. He even has the opportunity to appeal the conviction, and if he is still determined to be guilty, he will no doubt be returned to Britain to serve out his sentence.

Can anybody properly explain to us why this is unreasonable merely because one person has made a public (but unsubstantiated) "confession".

C'mon, I'm waiting...

:suspect:

Has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps they actually may have consulted solicitors who advised the guy here to make a confession in an attempt to get the other guy off, as having him (the guy who made the 'confession') extradited would be extremely difficult and would more than likely not happen? He can't be tried here as its not for murder or manslaughter. And that perhaps the Bulgarians saw through it?

Just another possible scenario.

Interesting use of language in a lot of, "football " cases.
On this thread , I've seen the words , "lad " and , "kid " used to describe the man arrested {elsewhere , described by his own family or friends as a , "giant " !}
Now the words , "lad" and , "kid " , to me , conjure up a picture of a young , innocent , rosy -cheeked boy of about 15 , innocently going about his life ; "kid " implies someone even younger .
Now most football fans we see , celebrating or getting into trouble .......etc .....are biggish blokes , in their late teens or twenties------sometimes even men owho are in their 40's and 50's are described as , "our lads ". !
When the police are hunting for a thug who has killed or attacked someone viciously , they never say ,
" We are loking for a lad in his early 20's who..........". They always say , quite rightly , "man".
Someone of 18 years can vote , smoke , drink , drive a car , get married , die for his country , have most forms of sex legally-----he's not a , "lad " or a , "kid " , he's a man.
Sounds cosier though if you don't say , "man". When you see people saying , "our lads " in this way , you can bet your life where their sympathies lie.Who are they trying to con ? Us ? Or themselves ?

From what I have seen and read, it appears the person who was sentenced claims a case of 'mistaken identity' and claims to have been in his hotel at the time of the attack.

The fact that someone here has 'confessed' to the crime should not be discounted by the courts, but neither can it be used to just let the convicted person go free.

IMO, the courts should look again at all the evidence and consider whether or not the person 'confessing' is genuine.

The person who has confessed to the crime is now the one in a catch 22 position - does he remain a coward and refuse to hand himself in? Given that people know his name etc, I would find that difficult to maintain. Does he hand himself over to the police and make a full (signed) confession knowing what fate awaits him?

If he is truly the person who comitted this crime then, I feel it is only a matter of time before he hands himself in and thus allowing the courts to consider freeing the convicted person on bail pending further enquiries/appeal/charging the person who has confessed.

I know the label of football hooliganism is firmly attached to British football, but there is significant evidence that football hooliganism exists in almost every other country in Europe and in some countries it is worse than in Britain, but the British get all the bad press. I'm not in anyway supporting British football hooligans (bang the lot of them up as far as i'm concerned) but just lets not be blinded to the facts that the British football fans are not the only hooligans around.

Hels

I think you put the legal position very well and clearly. The Bulgarian authorities would surely place a lot more weight on the , "confession " , if it was in any way official.
I'm struggling to think though what European football fans are as bad as the English ones. I can't recall hordes of foreign [European ] football fans , rampaging their way through British cities and smashing cafes up ......etc.....but , not spending that much time in the U.K. , maybe I've missed it.
One thing does spring to mind concerning English football fans was the time when the 2 Leeds supporters were stabbed in Istanbul.
Some newspapers described Taksim Square where it happened as a sleazy , dangerous part of Istanbul to be. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's packed with families and other people till well past midnight , children playing in the fountains in the warm weather ......etc......Whatever the details of the stabbing [and the Turks did convict the stabber ] , can you imagine a mob of Leeds fans appearing on the scene and the effect it must have had on the locals ? That is if they behaved anything like they normally did [or do ?].
The following morning a man from Radio 4 did a telephone interview with some Leeds United , "big-wig " who was with some fans in an Istanbul hotel. He described how the lads were heartbroken and in a state of shock. They were too frightened to leave the hotel. But......in the background you could hear English voices singing football songs and shouting and laughing [I wonder if they were in the bar , by any chance ? ]. The interviewer , who probably couldn't believe his ears asked ,
" ButI can hear them singing and laughing in the background {about 11 a.m. Turkish time }They don't sound very downcast to me "
There was an embarrassed silence from Istanbul and a sort of splutterand the man in Istanbul came up with ,
" Well , the lads are having to have a drink and that to steady their nerves "......or something very much like that.
More or less sums up football hooligans , I think.