I'm sick of people telling me I should go green, use energy saving lightbulbs ect..

It's one of the minor things on my mind that this country should be concentrating on. So what if this country gets a few degrees warmer, I'd like that to happen!

Hard luck mate....temps in this part of the world look set to decline for a decade or so :P

The bloke has a point, we're a 5th the size of china and do they give a ****. So why should we suffer.

Who gives a monkeys,I dont.

It's all bull.

30 years ago they were saying we were on the verge of an ice age.

also If the UK was to become "Carbon Neutral" which it never will. We are only 1/100th of the population of the earth and it will do bugger all.

If you aren't actually going to find out about the possible effects of global climate destabilisation, and merely think that climate change means slightly warmer weather, then why bother thinking about it at all? You're wasting your time.

We don't know for sure whether man-made climate change exists, (although there is a large scientific consensus that it does exist) or whether it is going to catapult the global weather system into chaos or not.

We have two choices, essentially, as individuals, communities, countries and the world as a whole.

1 - DO NOTHING
2 - DO SOMETHING

and two possibilities regarding climate change

A - IT IS CODSWALLOP
B - IT IS AN IMPENDING GLOBAL CATASTROPHE OF UNIMAGINABLE PROPORTIONS

Now I'm sure we all hope it is A. And if it is, and we DO NOTHING - then quids in, everyone's a winner.

Of course even if A is true we could still DO SOMETHING, and basically spend a lot of money fixing something that wasn't broken. Not clever, but not catastrophic by any means.

BUT, what if B is true. If B is true and we DO SOMETHING, then quids in, everyone's a winner - it's expensive, but we have avoided a global catastrophe, and we can all pat ourselves on the back.

BUT if B is true and we DO NOTHING - then we have a GLOBAL CATASTROPHE OF UNIMAGINABLE PROPORTIONS.

Which I think you'll agree is not a good thing.

The worst consequence of DOING SOMETHING is a hefty bill at the end of the century.

The worst consequence of DOING NOTHING will be much, much worse.

Where do you suppose the smart money would go?

Wow this is like the Americans not believing in evolution. I take it you lot are all top notch scientists then and have trawled though all the data because this is something if we do get wrong we are all screwed.

And talking of China and India not cleaning up so why should we, well we started the all Industrial age and we have had it good and done enough damage to get us where we are now without them. At the moment they are just starting out, even if they are now the biggest polluters its upto us to lead by example and together learn ways to do it cleaner.

There is more than global warming at stake. Over 90% of the forests and fish stocks humans used to enjoy are gone, and most of the remaining 10% are being unsustainably exploited by our present, vast global population.

Read up on ecological issues before you reject them. There is controversy over global warming because it is so complex that no one can predict it reliably. The consequences of cutting down the last forests or taking the last fish out of the sea are much easier to imagine. And it is because of people's choices and actions that this is happening.

The bloke has a point, we're a 5th the size of china and do they give a ****. So why should we suffer.

Yes but...the per capita CO2 emmissions figure for China is 2.6 tonnes per 1000 people, for the UK the figure is 9 tonnes per 1000 people. so who is the more profligate ?

For the US it's 19 tonnes/1000 and for India 0.9 tonnes/1000

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_co2_emi_percap-environment-co2-emissions-per-capita

There is more than global warming at stake. Over 90% of the forests and fish stocks humans used to enjoy are gone, and most of the remaining 10% are being unsustainably exploited by our present, vast global population.

Read up on ecological issues before you reject them. There is controversy over global warming because it is so complex that no one can predict it reliably. The consequences of cutting down the last forests or taking the last fish out of the sea are much easier to imagine. And it is because of people's choices and actions that this is happening.

Such a muppet we didn't know the damage the revolution caused 200 years ago, we do now but they don't give a ****. Lets face it we're a small fish in a big pond now. Unless India and china tow the line nothing we do will make much of a difference and the sad thing is accordding to reports it will affect them most

I've only put the central heating on and all of a sudden there's a thread on global warming.:|

At the end of the day, nothing realy is going to change. The world would not be able to function with out all the dirty energy. But oh well, I'm not worried:)

I've only put the central heating on and all of a sudden there's a thread on global warming.:|

Quick! Turn it off again. Turn it off!!! Lol

Couldn't give a fig roll

I like all this about cars and the scrappage scheme, eco friendly, wanting everyone to have a new car. I reckon, they should take my car for free, scrap it, and give me the new model, lowest spec, for free, fair swap and safe for the environment :D

DIESEL ALL THE WAY!!.............calm down the eco warriors, im joking!!

There is more than global warming at stake. Over 90% of the forests and fish stocks humans used to enjoy are gone, and most of the remaining 10% are being unsustainably exploited by our present, vast global population.

Read up on ecological issues before you reject them. There is controversy over global warming because it is so complex that no one can predict it reliably. The consequences of cutting down the last forests or taking the last fish out of the sea are much easier to imagine. And it is because of people's choices and actions that this is happening.

Spot on. It's known as the great climate change hijack. I essence, all we need to do is stop breeding ourselves out of existence and stop chopping down the rain forrests

What I can never understand is how asking people to reduce their energy usage means that they pay more .....

What would really help though, would be for all the people who work in offices to turn their damn PCs AND monitors off at lunchtime, and when they go home in the evening. I honestly dread to think of how much wasted energy results because of this.

Just because you're not paying the electricity bill doesn't mean that you're not wasting electricity. All we greenies ask is that people use energy responsibly. We don't want to return to the Stone age, or give up our luxuries, but just use the stuff responsibly!

Spot on. It's known as the great climate change hijack. I essence, all we need to do is stop breeding ourselves out of existence and stop chopping down the rain forrests

The thing is though, the second point is precisely one of the reasons why we have climate change.

In the last 50 years we have chopped down a third of the rain forrest, and look what we are like now, just imagine if we did another third in the next 50 or less what the world will be like.

Could we get all tho's who don't care about the plannet against a big wall and shoot them all and then maybe the population drop may give us a bit of lea way to try turn it around.

the damage is done now so i say screw it lets use it all up :hihi:

the damage is done now so i say screw it lets use it all up :hihi:

exactly. nothing will ever be done because we rely too much on it

Such a muppet we didn't know the damage the revolution caused 200 years ago, we do now but they don't give a ****. Lets face it we're a small fish in a big pond now. Unless India and china tow the line nothing we do will make much of a difference and the sad thing is accordding to reports it will affect them most

Myth. China are the world leaders in total renewable energy capacity and a close second to Germany in investment in renewable energy as a proportion of GDP. They also have very strict targets on renewable energy in the future, and are now the world's leading producer of solar panels. They are additionally the only country in the world actively fighting overpopulation through the one child policy.

India has some catching up to do, but they're still very much aware of the issue. Either way, none of it absolves us:-

On average, people in the UK use far more energy than people in India or China. We are in the best position to act as role models and find ways to live a more sustainable lifestyle. We are put to shame by many other developed countries, for example South Korea's reforestation programs have resulted in 60% national tree cover. Our tree cover in England is about 7%.

We can't do anything about what happened 200 years ago, but isn't it time we started to learn from mistakes that have been going on that long? It's down to people across the world to make the small changes to their lifestyles that would positively impact the environment.

The bloke has a point, we're a 5th the size of china and do they give a ****. So why should we suffer.

My point exactly on previous threads, they are opening coal fired power stations on a weekly basis and we are segregating cans, paper and glass, the ironic thing is nobody wants the waste once we have segregated it.

You cannot work something out on per person because thats just unrealistic. Look at the rubbish china as a whole is spewing into the atmosphere and then look at the rubbish coming out of the uk as a whole. China is going to have the smallest everything in proportion to its population so the figures can be whatever you want them to be if you are going by population.

The truth is that even if we produced zero waste - it would hardly have any real impact on the world. Now if the other countries like the US and China were to have zero waste - we may notice a change.

I am unwilling to be brainwashed by the manipulation of statistics by people mcuh cleverer than me.

I just hope today's kids are going to be more enlightened than we are. Climate destabilisation could happen really very abruptly (in a decade). We may well yet live to see the consequences, which are likely to be very unpleasant.

.

I am unwilling to be brainwashed by the manipulation of statistics by people much cleverer than me.



Unfortunately though too many people are. :roll:

Someone has watched Day after Tomorrow too often me thinks. Just joking. Most of the rubbish that gets thrown in the street is from kids. The kids of today may be more enlightened but they also seem to care less about those things some adults obsess about - including global warming.
I doubt our affect on the climate will ever bring about the doomsday scenario fear mongerers love to saddle everyone with. Protesting against climate change - you may as well stand on a street corner with a bill board saying "The End is Nigh".

You cannot work something out on per person because thats just unrealistic.

I am unwilling to be brainwashed by the manipulation of statistics by people mcuh cleverer than me.

You're going to have to accept it over the long term.

China is holding a royal flush to the UK's three of a kind.

China is holding a royal flush to the UK's three of a kind.

More like we have a pair and we threw our hand in long ago listening to all the doom-mongers

Why is it that when anything new is on the cards we BRITAIN have to lead the way...why not Ireland or Mexico...who are we...no money ...no resources...no gold stocks...going cap in hand to the French and the Russians for few matches to light our way....all our assets have been used as a trade off.... we are the best joke ever on the world stage..... and Mr.& Mrs Stupid Brits paying extra taxes to the eco idiots.....

At least the phrase ' Global Warming ' has replaced the phrase ' Acid rain'.

Acid rain really grated on me.

So what if this country gets a few degrees warmer, I'd like that to happen!

because there will be more flooding, for one

like what we saw in sheffield 2 years ago

more crop failures globally, because of drought

so food prices will go up.....

there is a really big list of the bad things that can and will happen if we don't do something about it now

I worry about this 'ere Global Warming all the time. Imagine, sunbathing all day on a Northumberland beach ! How boring ! Nothing to do all day but loll around drinking, smoking & reading. Ugh ! How perfectly beastly !
Then, what do we do with all those awful grapes that 'll sprout up in the warm weather. Them Romans made wine from them----but we now know that alcohol is SO BAD for you. In hot weather you can even grow tobacco-----but that simply does not bear even thinking about.
Imagine life with no umbrellas, no chilblains, no draughts, no heavy winter clothes---oh my Gawd---no wonder we can 't sleep at night with the prospect of warmer weather staring us in the face !
[ Incidentally, I wonder what caused such warm weather 2 thousand years ago ? I bet the Romans had a huge industrial complex, just outside Pompeii ---and yes----hence the problem THAT caused ! ].

At least the phrase ' Global Warming ' has replaced the phrase ' Acid rain'.

Acid rain really grated on me.

It was worse for the trees, much worse.

My point exactly on previous threads, they are opening coal fired power stations on a weekly basis and we are segregating cans, paper and glass, the ironic thing is nobody wants the waste once we have segregated it.

Sorry to disappoint...but the irony is on you. Somebody does want our waste....China. It's been buying it for years.

So basically what you're saying is...if my neighbour can 5hit in the street then so will I? You don't live on a crappy rundown council estate where everyone just doesn't give a toss...do you?

What a bunch of apathetic "point the finger" morons.

because there will be more flooding, for one

like what we saw in sheffield 2 years ago

more crop failures globally, because of drought

so food prices will go up.....

there is a really big list of the bad things that can and will happen if we don't do something about it now


my bold:

You really really really don't understand how this compares with your comments on your WWII thread do you? Unbelievable.



On another note generally, it bemuses me reading the blinkered comments of some SF posters who claim to believe that climate change will not affect them. Do these people have any idea (ANY idea) what the effects of global warning, if projections turn out broadly true, will have on immigration? ;)


(It never ceases to astonish me how many people in the South Yorkshire region think 'global' means *what the weather's like in my back garden*. I can only offer them this photograph:

"GLOBE!" (http://www.as.utexas.edu/~wheel/imgs/whole_earth.jpg) )

...but I fear the penny will still not drop...

my bold:

You really really really don't understand how this compares with your comments on your WWII thread do you? Unbelievable.



On another note generally, it bemuses me reading the blinkered comments of some SF posters who claim to believe that climate change will not affect them. Do these people have any idea (ANY idea) what the effects of global warning, if projections turn out broadly true, will have on immigration? ;)


(It never ceases to astonish me how many people in the South Yorkshire region think 'global' means *what the weather's like in my back garden*. I can only offer them this photograph:

"GLOBE!" (http://www.as.utexas.edu/~wheel/imgs/whole_earth.jpg) )

...but I fear the penny will still not drop...


I blame inbreeding. :D

I blame inbreeding. :D

Do you have some kind of fixation with Rotherham or something?:suspect:

Do you have some kind of fixation with Rotherham or something?:suspect:


:huh:Is Rotherham even part of the Universe?


I'd love to pull the last tooth from so many people in Rovvrum...ye-ha!:P

You only have to have lived for more than 40 years like I have to be aware of the way our climate has changed. I can remember how bonfire nights as a kid were freezing and we had 3 layers of clothiong on and had to stand next to the fire. Last year, I had a t shirt and thin coat on and was too hot standing next to the fire.
We had clear boundaries when it came to seasons. Spring was cool and sunny. Summer was warm and if you were lucky hot. Autumn was a bit rainy and a mixture of sun and wind and winter, well, that was winter and cold!

It doesnt seem to rain for ages and ages now and when it does it comes down in buckets.

I am no scientist, but I do have to agree that man is his own worst enemy and what( the world) does on a daily basis to me seems without question affecting the planet.
I guess the only way to prove this theory would be for the world to refrain from living the way that we do on a daily basis for say a year or so and get the climatologists to assess the impact of this. I know that this isnt going to happen, it is just a simplistic way of looking at the situation.

Being an idealist does have its drawbacks.:roll:

DIESEL ALL THE WAY!!.............calm down the eco warriors, im joking!!

If you're going to come on here posting glib nonsense, then you could at least read some of the replies and try to engage in a debate instead of giggling behind your hand with your naughty friends. Just how old are you ....I'm guessing 7?

Sorry to disappoint...but the irony is on you. Somebody does want our waste....China. It's been buying it for years.

So basically what you're saying is...if my neighbour can 5hit in the street then so will I? You don't live on a crappy rundown council estate where everyone just doesn't give a toss...do you?

What a bunch of apathetic "point the finger" morons.

Where did all that come from……..:hihi:...........and as for a “green” alternative just think where your recycled rubbish ends up.

Environmental campaigners said the millions of miles clocked up by "waste ships" would generate huge levels of carbon emissions while critics are demanding to know why councils are employing increasingly aggressive methods to meet Government targets on recycling if they can't deal with current levels.
Shadow Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said: "It is farcical that Ministers have resorted to exporting rubbish to places as far away as Libya."

Turkey is the most popular destination, taking 2.4million tons of metal, 260 tons of plastic and 13 tons of paper.

China is next with 1.9million tons of paper, 390,000 tons of metal and 78,000 tons of plastic.

Other bizarre destinations for British rubbish include Ghana, Vietnam and Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates.

Campaigners are worried as EU rules do not force companies to check that waste is recycled on arrival.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-549728/Farce-recycled-waste-Britain-exports-thousands-miles.html#ixzz0RXMYRnVP

I'm sick of people telling me I should go green, use energy saving lightbulbs ect..

It's one of the minor things on my mind that this country should be concentrating on. So what if this country gets a few degrees warmer, I'd like that to happen!

I'm quite green myself! but i wouldnt let it spoil my every day life worrying.
Who knows? one day it might come out not to be as serious as they say.

Global Warming, what a load of Cr*p, this has been accelrated by the media.
We have people that spend their time with nothing else to do providing so called facts on this subject, The organisations like Greenpeace, Friennds of the Earth and others predicting Armegedion, lets get real, trees cut down in other country's, the way power is generated and the fuel used is the dececion of theirs not ours.
If people feel that strong about the subject take protests to China, Russia India etc and se how they fair.

Wind turbines are not the answer the capital cost and maintence together with the embeded energy to produce these turbines is far in excess of the energy produced.
Lets use the energy we have more effectively.

Global Warming, what a load of Cr*p, this has been accelrated by the media.
We have people that spend their time with nothing else to do providing so called facts on this subject, The organisations like Greenpeace, Friennds of the Earth and others predicting Armegedion, lets get real, trees cut down in other country's, the way power is generated and the fuel used is the dececion of theirs not ours.
If people feel that strong about the subject take protests to China, Russia India etc and se how they fair.

Wind turbines are not the answer the capital cost and maintence together with the embeded energy to produce these turbines is far in excess of the energy produced.
Lets use the energy we have more effectively.

Global warming should only occur during the winter months so that everyone could get bit and give us some respite during summer.

Global Warming, what a load of Cr*p, this has been accelrated by the media.
We have people that spend their time with nothing else to do providing so called facts on this subject, The organisations like Greenpeace, Friennds of the Earth and others predicting Armegedion, lets get real, trees cut down in other country's, the way power is generated and the fuel used is the dececion of theirs not ours.


It's wasn't the media, Greenpeace or Friends of the Earth that discovered global warming. It was discovered by world renowned experts in their field, after years of hard work.

Our ancestors have cut down the forests from John O'Groats to Landsend and from the Wash to Milford Town, but has anybody any bright ideas on how we could re-grow them, and where?

I really wish that the term Global Warming was never used. Not because its not happening, but because people find it easier to dismiss a single word. The problem is very very large, and it is effecting all aspects of our daily lives. From what ive read and seen, the two problems we are going to face will be a lack of drinkable water and food.

Our ancestors have cut down the forests from John O'Groats to Landsend and from the Wash to Milford Town, but has anybody any bright ideas on how we could re-grow them, and where?



Funny I drive from Inverness to Gills Bay on a regular basis which is 4 miles from John O,Groats and there are plenty of trees, yes I will agree during the Highland Clearences trees were cut down, but thanks to the forethougt of the last generation we have plenty. When was the last time you went on the A9 and the A99 to John O'Groats and viewed the well matured trees.
A long time if ever I think

only selfish people dont give a **** about it

There is more than global warming at stake. Over 90% of the forests and fish stocks humans used to enjoy are gone, and most of the remaining 10% are being unsustainably exploited by our present, vast global population.

Read up on ecological issues before you reject them. There is controversy over global warming because it is so complex that no one can predict it reliably. The consequences of cutting down the last forests or taking the last fish out of the sea are much easier to imagine. And it is because of people's choices and actions that this is happening.

Abslolutely right. Whether man made Global warming is true or not, the rapid destruction of the natural envioronment is beyond doubt, and if anything it is accelerating. Surely even the dimmest trogalodyte (the ones who are proud to brag about how little they care about everyone and everything else) must realise that this is going to become extremely challenging to the survival of humans as a species.

The first step to finding a remedy has to be an end to the universal denial of the fact that we have a very urgent and rapidly worsening crisis of Global overpopulation.

In 1950 there were 2.5 billion humans. Now there are 6.8 billion, and by 2050, it is projected there will be 9 billion.

When was the last time you went on the A9 and the A99 to John O'Groats and viewed the well matured trees.
A long time if ever I think

You're right, I haven't travelled the A99, and perhaps you are unfamiliar with the other destinations, but my examples were intended to highlight the deforestation that has taken place throughout the British Isles over the last few centuries. The afforestation that you mention may or may not have been done with climatic change in mind.

It's wasn't the media, Greenpeace or Friends of the Earth that discovered global warming. It was discovered by world renowned experts in their field, after years of hard work.

Sorry, but you're wrong. :)

"Global Warming" was "discovered" by Al Gore .... a failed US Presidential candidate and his cronies ...... the "big business" Capitalists who look for more and more ways to screw ordinary people.

GW "compliant scientists" are making long term futures and packets of cash/grants by promoting this "New, Death-Bringing End-of-the-World"

It's all a total con trick!

There are many notable climatologist scientists whose voices are not allowed to be heard in the media or elsewhere...... it's time their voices were heard and the truth about "GW" and this massive misinformation propaganda machine was made public.

There are many notable climatologist scientists whose voices are not allowed to be heard in the media or elsewhere...... it's time their voices were heard and the truth about "GW" and this massive misinformation propaganda machine was made public.

Tell us who they are, provide a link, and their voices will be heard. Presumably you know who they are? It would be pretty hard for you to know what they have said and how notable they are otherwise.

It's probably true, but there's a chance it might not be. Given that, it makes sense to me to assume the worst and take appropriate action instead of doing nothing and hoping for the best.

and two possibilities regarding climate change

A - IT IS CODSWALLOP
B - IT IS AN IMPENDING GLOBAL CATASTROPHE OF UNIMAGINABLE PROPORTIONS


Or perhaps

C. Somewhere in the middle.

In the dictionary, under "hyperbole" it says "see Phanerothyme".

Sorry, but you're wrong. :)

"Global Warming" was "discovered" by Al Gore .... a failed US Presidential candidate and his cronies ...... the "big business" Capitalists who look for more and more ways to screw ordinary people.

GW "compliant scientists" are making long term futures and packets of cash/grants by promoting this "New, Death-Bringing End-of-the-World"

It's all a total con trick!

There are many notable climatologist scientists whose voices are not allowed to be heard in the media or elsewhere...... it's time their voices were heard and the truth about "GW" and this massive misinformation propaganda machine was made public.

The global warming theory goes back a lot longer than Al Gore. I remember a speech by Margaret Thatcher when she was Prime Minister talking about a meeting with some scientists that warned her about the threat of climate change.

I sure that the big businesses such as the oil companies will do anything to refute climate change as it's not in their interest to forced to change their approach to making money, and it seems that they are succeeding with some.

I am sure that you are sincere when you say it's a con trick. However, judging you by your credentials here on SF, and as wise as your posts are; you don't come across as a leading climatologist. So I will carry on believing them for the time being.

Taking out all of the whys and why-nots as we currently understand or debate them, ie: we're warming because of co2 emissions, etc etc etc....

Is it not within the realms of possibility that our planet is orbiting slightly closer to the sun?, or that solar flares are changing our climate? I'm not so well read on climate change, but I recall (so many years have passed since) from my school days that we had a medieval 'warm period' when the temperatures were significantly warmer than they are at present. Since that time, the planets' climate cooled significantly to the levels we find ourselves in at present.

It's just my belief that there are so many other factors to be considered other that those forced upon us in the media.

Sure, we aren't helping the climate by throwing out gases into the atmosphere at the rate at which we are, but I do not believe personally that we are wholly responsible. I believe that it is part of a natural cycle, that the world will become hotter and cooler without human intervention.

The issue we have to address is the rapidly increasing global population. Overpopulation of the planet cannot be a good thing when the earth can only supply a finite amount of resources. We aren't, in my opinion, destroying the planet 'Mother Nature' is doing that through a natural process.

I believe that what we are actually destroying, in the grand scheme of things, is ourselves. We are victim as a species, of our own successes. Breakthroughs in medical sciences, and the general longevity of the human race due to educating ourselves on health and wellbeing, mean that we are significantly outliving our ancestors, and outgrowing our planet.

Recent evidence would suggest that in the last 10 or so years, globally the temperature has enjoyed a gradual cooling, though experts believe this is only temporary. These 'experts' didn't predict the warming, nor the recent cooling, so how they can predicate that the cooling is non-permanent is beyond me.

If these 'experts' are to be believed, then the evidence they put forward, would suggest that we are within 100 years of possible extinction as a species.

Or perhaps

C. Somewhere in the middle.

In the dictionary, under "hyperbole" it says "see Phanerothyme".

You've missed the point. It doesn't actually matter whether it's real, fantasy, mild or serious. Because we don't know what will actually happen (unless you happen to have a time machine that is). Hence the two extremes.

Arguing about whether its real or not is largely fruitless unless you happen to be an academic/scientist of some kind and have devoted your professional career to understanding climate.

The only thing that we can influence is our own reaction to the possibility that the exponential increases in anthropogenic greenhouse gasses will cause a destabilisation of the global climate system.

This argument is never going to be solved, basically, in 30 years time, if I float past you, then you can say I told you so, if I'm still driving, eat my bio-fuel dust :D

If you're going to come on here posting glib nonsense, then you could at least read some of the replies and try to engage in a debate instead of giggling behind your hand with your naughty friends. Just how old are you ....I'm guessing 7?

oh shut up! i said i was joking diddn't i? obviouly your not the most relaxed person in the world. add about 14 years onto that. :)

good evening all.

Tell us who they are, provide a link, and their voices will be heard.

So, you are prepared to listen to just one side of a debate .... and accept it as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

You don't acknowledge the manipulation you have succumbed to? The falsified photos, the falsified statistics, the "etherial" figures and faux "history" promulgated and spread by these "expert" doom-mongers?

Global Warming is, to put it simply, the new "Religion". :)

There are plenty of sites you can simply "Google" if you wish to receive objective evaluations of the "Truth of the Lie". But you probably won't bother because it won't fit into your comfort zone.

I'll help by giving you a start, should you wish to enhance your objectivity quotient ...... start by reading the link I give below. There are many, many other similar sites on the internet which challenge the "Received Wisdom of the 'New Messiahs' making big $ from GW".

http://www.climate-resistance.org/

The first step to finding a remedy has to be an end to the universal denial of the fact that we have a very urgent and rapidly worsening crisis of Global overpopulation.

In 1950 there were 2.5 billion humans. Now there are 6.8 billion, and by 2050, it is projected there will be 9 billion.

That's true .......

So where shall we start on reducing the Earth's population?

(I know ..... from my previous posts on here you would suggest all the world's "shoeshine's") :hihi:

So, you are prepared to listen to just one side of a debate .... and accept it as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

You don't acknowledge the manipulation you have succumbed to? The falsified photos, the falsified statistics, the "etherial" figures and faux "history" promulgated and spread by these "expert" doom-mongers?

Global Warming is, to put it simply, the new "Religion". :)

There are plenty of sites you can simply "Google" if you wish to receive objective evaluations of the "Truth of the Lie". But you probably won't bother because it won't fit into your comfort zone.

I'll help by giving you a start, should you wish to enhance your objectivity quotient ...... start by reading the link I give below. There are many, many other similar sites on the internet which challenge the "Received Wisdom of the 'New Messiahs' making big $ from GW".

http://www.climate-resistance.org/

I have spent loads of time on the internet investigating global warming. Sure there are people out there who disagree with the consensus, but I have found that the vast majority are either directly connected to or funded by the petro chemical industry, or else they are not experts in the field and are merely out to make a quick buck for themselves by exploiting the gullible - such as that charlatan who made the Great Global Warming Swindle, and was hero of the minute, until it emerged how little he knew, and how much he had deliberately distorted the statistics.

There is - as with all unproven science - always the possibility that climate scientists are wrong - but to claim that it is a hoax propagated by big business, when the the biggest businesses in the world stand to lose out (the petro chemical and motor industries) doesn't make much sense.

If you have done research on the web - as your post would imply - why can't you just post the websites where the data gathered by the 'notable' scientists you mention can be viewed. The vast majority of research I've seen indicates a link between carbon emissions and climate change. I guess the Global conspiracy of big bussiness and corrupt scientists must be controlling the internet as well.

That's true .......

So where shall we start on reducing the Earth's population?

(I know ..... from my previous posts on here you would suggest all the world's "shoeshine's") :hihi:

The start of the solution has to be acknowledging the problem. If that happened, the first obvious step would be raising awareness of the problem on a global level, and trying to persuade as many people as possible that it is a bad idea to have more than one or two kids. It's a tall order, I know. On the off chance that it could be achieved, there would be further complications of a shrinking population and it's economic impacts, which would have to be planned for as well. In short, the problem couldn't be tackled without some kind of Global body with the power to make and enforce rules concerning population control.

I have spent loads of time on the internet investigating global warming.

As a "believer, or a sceptic? :)

there are people out there who disagree with the consensus, but I have found that the vast majority are either directly connected to or funded by the petro chemical industry, or else they are not experts in the field and are merely out to make a quick buck for themselves by exploiting the gullible

That can work both ways.


if you have done research on the web - as your post would imply - why can't you just post the websites where the data gathered by the 'notable' scientists you mention can be viewed. The vast majority of research I've seen indicates a link between carbon emissions and climate change. I guess the Global conspiracy of big bussiness and corrupt scientists must be controlling the internet as well.

You show me yours, and I may show you mine. ;)

You show me yours, and I may show you mine. ;)

Here's a few to get you going:

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/AR4WG1_Print_SPM.pdf

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/AR4WG1_Print_Ch09.pdf

http://www.pnas.org/content/104/10/3713.full.pdf

http://royalsociety.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=20742

http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~archer/reprints/archer.2005.fate_co2.pdf

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/press/2005-12-WMO.pdf

http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/wcp/wcdmp/statement/documents/WMO998_E.pdf

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter3.pdfhttp://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2005/

http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_tar/?src=/CLIMATE/IPCC_TAR/WG1/127.htm

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/307/5716/1769.pdfhttp://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2007/2006GL028164.shtml

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm

http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/spring04/atmo451b/pdf/RadiationBudget.pdf

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/AR4WG1_Print_Ch01.pdf

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/04/water-vapour-feedback-or-forcing/

The start of the solution has to be acknowledging the problem. If that happened, the first obvious step would be raising awareness of the problem on a global level, and trying to persuade as many people as possible that it is a bad idea to have more than one or two kids. It's a tall order, I know. On the off chance that it could be achieved, there would be further complications of a shrinking population and it's economic impacts, which would have to be planned for as well. In short, the problem couldn't be tackled without some kind of Global body with the power to make and enforce rules concerning population control.

I take it you haven't realised that this subject is already being increasingly addressed by those who really pull the Global strings.

So given that we agree on this subject, how can anyone (in any Government) possibly enforce it on Third World inhabitants?

Invent a secret new strain of deathly infections?

Educate people to behave differently?

Do mass sterilisation of whole Nations with non-compliant populations?

Or just create a "New World Order" where a few people run the lives of 9+ Billion people from cradle-to-grave?

Here's a few to get you going:



Thank you, JFK. ;)

If I live long enough, I'll plough through them all. :thumbsup:

I take it you haven't realised that this subject is already being increasingly addressed by those who really pull the Global strings.

So given that we agree on this subject, how can anyone (in any Government) possibly enforce it on Third World inhabitants?

Invent a secret new strain of deathly infections?

Educate people to behave differently?

Do mass sterilisation of whole Nations with non-compliant populations?

Or just create a "New World Order" where a few people run the lives of 9+ Billion people from cradle-to-grave?

Or maybe you can look at other societies and cultures and discover at what caused them to end their population increases. What do you think seemed to put a lid on our increasing populations here UK and Western Europe?

Let's not move away from the nub of the original OP subject.

It's been diverted into an area worthy of a new General Discussion Thread (if someone cares to start one). :)

I won't spend my time collating loads of links from those sites and boring readers who visit SF.

Maybe this link says it all ....... and it's from the US Senate:-

You'll need Adobe Reader/or similar PDF software installed on your computer to read it in full though.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9

For those who don't have a PDF facility, here's a very brief
selection of quotes from it ...

U. S. Senate Minority Report:
More Than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over
Man-Made Global Warming Claims
Scientists Continue to Debunk “Consensus” in 2008 &
2009

Over 700 dissenting scientists (updates previous 650 report) from around the globe
challenged man-made global warming claims made by the United Nations
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and former Vice President Al Gore.
This new 2009 255-page U.S. Senate Minority Report -- updated from 2007’s
groundbreaking report of over 400 scientists who voiced skepticism about the so-called
global warming “consensus” -- features the skeptical voices of over 700 prominent
international scientists, including many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have
now turned against the UN IPCC. This updated report includes an additional 300 (and
growing) scientists and climate researchers since the initial release in December 2007.
The over 700 dissenting scientists are more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52)
who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007


The chorus of skeptical scientific voices grow louder in 2008 and 2009 as a steady stream
of peer-reviewed studies, analyses, real world data and inconvenient developments
challenged the UN’s and former Vice President Al Gore's claims that the "science is
settled" and there is a "consensus." On a range of issues, 2008 and 2009 proved to be
challenging for the promoters of man-made climate fears. Promoters of anthropogenic
warming fears endured the following: Global temperatures failing to warm; Peer-reviewed
studies predicting a continued lack of warming; a failed attempt to revive the discredited
“Hockey Stick”; inconvenient developments and studies regarding rising CO2; the Sun;
Clouds; Antarctica; the Arctic; Greenland’s ice; Mount Kilimanjaro; Causes of Hurricanes;
Extreme Storms; Extinctions; Floods; Droughts; Ocean Acidification; Polar Bears; Extreme
weather deaths; Frogs; lack of atmospheric dust; Malaria; the failure of oceans to warm and
rise as predicted.
In addition, the following developments further secured 2008 and 2009 as the year the
“consensus” collapsed. Russian scientists “rejected the very idea that carbon dioxide may
be responsible for global warming”.

Now, I'm sorry for making such a long post here. :hihi:

Most folks prefer much shorter posts (and I can't blame them! I've even managed to bore myself!! :hihi:)

Let's not move away from the nub of the original OP subject.

It's been diverted into an area worthy of a new General Discussion Thread (if someone cares to start one). :)

I won't spend my time collating loads of links from those sites and boring readers who visit SF.

Maybe this link says it all ....... and it's from the US Senate:-

You'll need Adobe Reader/or similar PDF software installed on your computer to read it in full though.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9

For those who don't have a PDF facility, here's a very brief
selection of quotes from it ...







Now, I'm sorry for making such a long post here. :hihi:

Most folks prefer much shorter posts (and I can't blame them! I've even managed to bore myself!! :hihi:)

I could give you another 100 links discussing climate change and global warming if you are interested.

So given that we agree on this subject, how can anyone (in any Government) possibly enforce it on Third World inhabitants?

Invent a secret new strain of deathly infections?

Educate people to behave differently?

Do mass sterilisation of whole Nations with non-compliant populations?

Or just create a "New World Order" where a few people run the lives of 9+ Billion people from cradle-to-grave?


Are you suggesting these are the only options?

If you are also aware of the problem, why is it you are asking me for solutions - before apparently second guessing my answers based on the assumption that I am a tacit supporter of a New World Order dictatorship/death cult.
What do you think should be done about it?

Are you suggesting these are the only options?

If you are also aware of the problem, why is it you are asking me for solutions - before apparently second guessing my answers based on the assumption that I am a tacit supporter of a New World Order dictatorship/death cult.
What do you think should be done about it?

:):):)

You were the one who started veering off topic, old bean. :)

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5446119&postcount=51

So, you tell me ....... :confused: :cool:

Not every problem has an easy solution. My favoured line on this is a combination of education and enforcement (as in China).

It is interesting that most developed nations have stable or dropping populations, especially if you discount immigration from less developed nations. The poorer a place is, the faster its population seems to reproduce.

Work out why this trend of national development reducing birth rates occurs and you might be able to apply it in poor places too. Presumably a lot of it is down to education, female empowerment and the availability of contraceptives.

The poorer a place is, the faster its population seems to reproduce.


Britain 2020? :hihi:

I could give you another 100 links discussing climate change and global warming if you are interested.

I'll pass on that, if you don't mind ......

But thanks for the offer anyway, JFK. ;)

I'll pass on that, if you don't mind ......

But thanks for the offer anyway, JFK. ;)

You did seem to be interested in the subject, so I'd thought I'd point you in the right direction.

You did seem to be interested in the subject, so I'd thought I'd point you in the right direction.

Ah! Bless! ;)

Britain 2020? :hihi:

Rumour has it: a slight increase to about 68 million. Half of this projected increase is from estimated immigration.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/pproj1007.pdf

This is a slow rate of growth compared to poorer countries, though still not ideal. Britain is already very overpopulated.

Half of this projected increase is from estimated immigration.


How the other half live, eh? ;)

I guess the only way to prove this theory would be for the world to refrain from living the way that we do on a daily basis for say a year or so and get the climatologists to assess the impact of this. I know that this isnt going to happen, it is just a simplistic way of looking at the situation.


Even if that were to ever occur it wouldn't really "prove" the theory as climatologist and oceoanologists will tell you that it takes many years, perhaps as many as 50 years before the climate change might manifests itself.

That said though the following the events of 9/11 all commercial aircraft were grounded for 3 days, giving scientists a rare 3 day window to measure the effects effects on aircraft on the enviromnent.
They observed clear contrail free skys for 3 days and they also observed a rise in temprature over 3 days.
This obviously doesn't prove that man made climate change is real but it does indicate that air travel may well impact or alter temprature.

Does all the hot air expelled on this subject contribute to global warming and how do you stop cows from F***ing.

Hello..
I am also agreed with you that now a days people are just saying about Global Warming but they are not really caring about Global warming. They are not saving energy and of course our trees. That is why we are having problems on earth. I think this is a real time to do something about Global Warming. People should try for this.

Does all the hot air expelled on this subject contribute to global warming and how do you stop cows from F***ing.

There are scientist looking to see if specific diets can cut down on methane produced by cows.

Man's demand for beef and cattle products means that more cows, sheep and goats are being kept and therefore add to the green house gasses.

So although you could argue that animals like cows and flocks of sheep produce more greenhouse gasses than the equivalent size cars, it is still human demand that is driving the amount of methane greenhouse gas.

There are scientist looking to see if specific diets can cut down on methane produced by cows.

Man's demand for beef and cattle products means that more cows, sheep and goats are being kept and therefore add to the green house gasses.

So although you could argue that animals like cows and flocks of sheep produce more greenhouse gasses than the equivalent size cars, it is still human demand that is driving the amount of methane greenhouse gas.

Does the answer appear to be Sod It.!.