I work for a national insulation distributor and my job involves meetings and site visits to various national and local house-builders. Over the last 2 years i have supplied contractors working on various sites around Sheffield and Yorkshire supplying high spec materials, in twice the thicknesses fitted in private developments. These homes are built to "code level" 3 or sometimes level 4 which means they are at least 50% improvement on current building regs and 100% better than mine. The room sizes are 25% larger than mine, and the heating bills can be less than £50 per year!

Now i'm not bitter and obviously i benefit from the large orders for these sites provide, but why do we reward people who don't generally work but who choose to have kids as a career and want us to pick up the tab? I'm not discriminating here because it's true and i've seen it happen, site after site, after site.

It isn't natural to provide spongers with facilities to have more kids without the ability to provide for them. The welfare system is perverse and unatural.

Im sure if your forming oppinions like that on the very people that are keeping your company in work then your in the wrong job.

Give up the job and try the dole and gain some humility.

why don't you do up your home, surely you could do it for cheaper than everyone else too??

Ok to try make some sence of it, look at how we are letting people migrate to this country atm because there is going to be an aging workforce and the population wont have enough young people to do all the caring and bum wiping that will be needed in the future (probably even your bum) and accept for one min that these kids that they are popping out just mignt fill that gap.

You should look at people like as a commodity like the Gov do.

Besides that, a lot of this matterial and work is what we have had to grasp back from the EU. We pay a lot into theEU and this type of work is a lot of the time funded by the EU to bring our living stardards up. A lot of this accomidation has been negleted for years depite councils having taken rent and money from selling properties.

The kids of today are the tax payers of tomorrow...

Im sure if your forming oppinions like that on the very people that are keeping your company in work then your in the wrong job.

Give up the job and try the dole and gain some humility.

Firstly can i make an amendment to my title-"there" should obviously be "their"!!

Secondly and in response to the above. How much do you know about your argument? Are you aware that funding people who don't don't have to provide for their children actually will be of detriment to the human species in general and several theories advise that benefits provide the foundation for unnatural birth rates. In evolution no other animal is afforded such liberties, and where as i'm sure the claimants and beneficiaries are utterly ignorant of their evolutionary time bomb attitudes, the government isn't.

So to question my "humility" is rather daft, because it's the whole foundation of my argument!

And the final claim of "keeping my company in work" is wrong too, because it's paid for by tax which is in turn charged to it's employees and employers. The benefit system is an unnatural career path chosen by people who's genes wouldn't spread without it. We live in an over populated planet already with birth rates rising exponentionaly to catastrophic levels, yet we keep putting food on the tables for them.

Of course religion plays it's part here by condemning contraception.

we have made a society which is as well off not working , you devil6 sound like you have a reasonably well paid job, most people who work dont, I myself have a well paid full time factory job, propably twice the pay that most factory workers recieve, ive got 2 kids aged 11yrs and one aged 5 months, ive got a £115,000 mortgage which is interest only, even I would be as well of on benefits as i would working, if i take low pay and work part time tax credit would make the difference up, if i lost my job i would be as well off, ive worked for 32 years now soon as i can get working part time im off, thats why you go to so many sites and no one works, can you blame them

How much do you know about your argument? Are you aware that funding people who don't don't have to provide for their children actually will be of detriment to the human species in general and several theories advise that benefits provide the foundation for unnatural birth rates.

to this we could talk of loads of things detrimental to the human species but on the priority of things I dont think you would even beable to score it. global warming, religion, lack of religion, communism, the list could go on and on to prove any point you wish to favour.
This argument of logic is flawed.

In evolution no other animal is afforded such liberties, and where as i'm sure the claimants and beneficiaries are utterly ignorant of their evolutionary time bomb attitudes, the government isn't.

giving someone loft istallation is as much a time bomb as people wearing clothes and humans as a species not being in tune with the eliments as far as evolution goes.

So to question my "humility" is rather daft, because it's the whole foundation of my argument!.

as you think highly of taxes going towards tho's as being worse of than yourself then yes I question your humility. also if you dont like how the system in this country works...

And the final claim of "keeping my company in work" is wrong too, because it's paid for by tax which is in turn charged to it's employees and employers. The benefit system is an unnatural career path chosen by people who's genes wouldn't spread without it. We live in an over populated planet already with birth rates rising exponentionaly to catastrophic levels, yet we keep putting food on the tables for them.

Im sure that you and your fellow employees are not the sole funders of this and if you are concered about where your tax money goes so much then maybe you should lobby to get out of Europe, question the asylem policies of this country, ect ect, and don't forget not to have any children yourself for fear of compounding the problem for future generations.

Of course religion plays it's part here by condemning contraception.

and they say its wrong to be gay, don't forget about that one !

here here hard2miss, were all differant and always will be.

I work for a national insulation distributor and my job involves meetings and site visits to various national and local house-builders. Over the last 2 years i have supplied contractors working on various sites around Sheffield and Yorkshire supplying high spec materials, in twice the thicknesses fitted in private developments. These homes are built to "code level" 3 or sometimes level 4 which means they are at least 50% improvement on current building regs and 100% better than mine. The room sizes are 25% larger than mine, and the heating bills can be less than £50 per year!

Now i'm not bitter and obviously i benefit from the large orders for these sites provide, but why do we reward people who don't generally work but who choose to have kids as a career and want us to pick up the tab? I'm not discriminating here because it's true and i've seen it happen, site after site, after site.

It isn't natural to provide spongers with facilities to have more kids without the ability to provide for them. The welfare system is perverse and unatural.

Im hearing you, i agree completely.

The argument always seems to come up that benefit claimants get too much money rather than the point that workers don't get paid enough. The system is unfair, as a single mum of two who claimed income support in the past and saw day after day friends and neighbours working their ***** off but still not having enough to make ends meet.

The argument always seems to come up that benefit claimants get too much money rather than the point that workers don't get paid enough. The system is unfair, as a single mum of two who claimed income support in the past and saw day after day friends and neighbours working their ***** off but still not having enough to make ends meet.

exactly, its not as cut and dry as people make out. There has to be someone at the bottom for people to reach for the top, benifits just defines where the bottom is.

Its easy to assume that people on benifits dont want work rarther than facts like they cant find it, the work available doesnt pay enough, the skills they have are not upto the work out there ect ect because the alternative would be that these people could probably do as good a job as the people that come on here and moan about people on benifits if the roles were swapped.

Anyone in a job that thinks life is rosy on benifits put up an advert to do a job/wage swap with these people.

Its not about sponging, a lot has to do with circomstance and oppertunity as much as anything else.

people always look down on others I suppose its a human traite (altho not a nice one)

Glad we put that to rest then Hard2Miss :D

The argument always seems to come up that benefit claimants get too much money rather than the point that workers don't get paid enough. The system is unfair, as a single mum of two who claimed income support in the past and saw day after day friends and neighbours working their ***** off but still not having enough to make ends meet.

It's because they have to pay large amounts of tax to keep people in income support. If they could pay less tax they would have enough to make ends meet.

It's because they have to pay large amounts of tax to keep people in income support. If they could pay less tax they would have enough to make ends meet.

The problem is people associate how much tax they pay with how much someone gets on benifit.

This logic is flawed.

If taxes were shown as a whole and where they went then people would not be jumping on the benifit scrounger band waggon. A lot goes into other things like wars, hospitals, schools and bailing out banks ect.

Please dont make the link that "I pay X amount in tax and mrs X is getting X amount on benifits" because its not like that.
Benifits are for tho's worse off. The ones that are not in the job you are. The ones that have been left single parents ect ect.

Please dont make the link that "I pay X amount in tax and mrs X is getting X amount on benifits" because its not like that.


As a taxpayer you can make the link however you like. All taxes (excluding council tax) go into the Treasury and all public expenditure comes out of it.

I could say that the income tax I paid last month bought some ammunition, part of a new x-ray machine, some school books, a bit of a new fire engine, or paid someone's benefit for a couple of weeks. All could be equally true.

But low income families should not pay so much in tax if it makes so little differance to what they could get if not working. Its a bit like tax credits its a stupid idea, why take so much off them to start with, it just makes no sense to take in one hand then give it back, would it not be as easy to have different tax codes?

I'm not against people getting money, I am against low income families being taxed so much they are only a little better off. In the end tax is about a third of your wage gone so if you don't earn that much it must be tough.

PS. I agree with the insulation thing, it really annoys me, most people cannot afford to have it done. I would much rather the families that are working on lower income have it and people not working (for no reason) should not have it. We should reward them that try.

to this we could talk of loads of things detrimental to the human species but on the priority of things I dont think you would even beable to score it. global warming, religion, lack of religion, communism, the list could go on and on to prove any point you wish to favour.
This argument of logic is flawed.
The logic of this argument is only flawed should you decide to sidestep the issue actually suggested. Of course many other things are detrimental to humans, like any other species, we are subject to many threats to our individual survival-whether that be financial [cost of sacrifices made to pass our genes] or social. They are for another argument and another thread. My point really asks the following question; if every other animal, insect, plant etc... survives only to try and reproduce after evolving the ability to do so under strict envioromental pressures, why should humans be offered a free pass?


giving someone loft istallation is as much a time bomb as people wearing clothes and humans as a species not being in tune with the eliments as far as evolution goes.
I don't install any products. As for building sustainable homes as alternative option to our carbon hungry existing dwellings i see no real alternative. The key question here being; should we pay to create it for someone who hasn't earned it?


as you think highly of taxes going towards tho's as being worse of than yourself then yes I question your humility. also if you dont like how the system in this country works...
Again you rather sidestep the whole point. I am a man with no education. My mother is from Pitsmoor and my dad from Parson Cross, i am no snob. But i do question a system which rewards having children to a point where it actively encourages people to breed for financial gain. In any other species such liberties are not afforded. As for a suggestion of leaving a country based on the unfairness of its benefits-what if you suggested that to every hard worker who contributes up to 40% of their earnings in tax? That surely is equally perverse as free hand outs. Without me and others the freebies wouldn't exist!



Im sure that you and your fellow employees are not the sole funders of this and if you are concered about where your tax money goes so much then maybe you should lobby to get out of Europe, question the asylem policies of this country, ect ect, and don't forget not to have any children yourself for fear of compounding the problem for future generations.
Again a rather knee jerk response. I am well aware that most of Britain wants the opportunity to earn their keep, i question the minority. I do have issues with the asylum policies of our current government because it doesn't make sense. I have absolutely no issues with the concept of immigration, i have a problem with the current system.



and they say its wrong to be gay, don't forget about that one !

I have several best friends who are gay, so i don't get you point here. If it suggests i discriminate against people you are wrong. Discrimination is unfair, so is life long claiming of benefits. Serial benefit frauds discriminate against the majority of the honest workers, not the other way around!

If the system is unfair then surely your gripe should start at the top. is it that you pay too much tax that goes into the system or that the rich dont pay enough into it ?

I personaly think no matter what we are going to be taxed anyhow and its easy to not like it and then look down at others worse off and think they are better off than they should be. Looking on the other side of the coin on the other hand is a lot harder because the people with the money are the ones running the show so to point the finger in the other direction is a lot harder to do.

I dont see the OP's problem.........he does his job on any property and gets paid for it...why does it matter who the residents of the property are.
He could has as been suggested humble himself along the lines of for example realising that the rooms are now so much warmer..so it going to cost much less for all the single mums to procreate within them...or maybe the money they save on heating could purchase birth control pills or indeed condoms. He should se his job as a valuable service to mankind
Britain I feel is out of balance...we have all these single mothers....where are the single fathers.................

It's because they have to pay large amounts of tax to keep people in income support. If they could pay less tax they would have enough to make ends meet.

If you think that your tax would magically drop if their was major reform or a complete removal of benefit for all but the most seriously injured then you have no idea how tax works and you place too much faith in a government. The role of government is to safeguard the country and it's future and while that should mean looking after us all it will stamp all over who it wishes to secure that future.

Your tax would keep the same and be pushed elsewhere like wars, 3rd world development efforts and any number of other things well before it became available for our own domestic needs.

So anyone who believes it will lessen the tax burden or change the countries structure should think again. Also being on benefits is not the great sit on your backside and reap the reward that most people seem to think it is. It is down right degrading to live on a minimum allowance like a child and wonder where the hell your next money is coming from, explaining to companies why a bill is late because the job center sent your money to a monk in swindon.

Benefits need to be slashed to provide incentive to those unwilling to work because they think they are worse off or no better off working. I would welcome it. If employers are so miffed at their tax rates then offer more options to gain a position within your company or give your coworkers incentives to teach them on the job.

It's not rocket science people.

...maybe the money they save on heating could purchase birth control pills or indeed condoms. ..

You probably already know Saracen but birth control in what ever form is free for everyone in the country from the pill to condoms.

Of course I know this...I was being sarcastic......so as they are free why pray tell dont the fornicators use them and save us all a bundle of tax..............................

Of course I know this...I was being sarcastic......so as they are free why pray tell dont the fornicators use them and save us all a bundle of tax..............................

Ooo, 'fornicators', you're not an advocate of divine retribution for such behaviour are you Saracen?

one thing more certain than benefit scroungers.......there is no god and if their is he is one sick son of a bitch.

The problem is people associate how much tax they pay with how much someone gets on benifit.

This logic is flawed.

If taxes were shown as a whole and where they went then people would not be jumping on the benifit scrounger band waggon. A lot goes into other things like wars, hospitals, schools and bailing out banks ect.

Please dont make the link that "I pay X amount in tax and mrs X is getting X amount on benifits" because its not like that.
Benifits are for tho's worse off. The ones that are not in the job you are. The ones that have been left single parents ect ect.
exactly ,i dont think 2p in the pound of tax payments per person goes on benefits ,far mor tax money is paid out in assistance and foreign aid,money we can never recoup ,at least those on benefits may one day get work,even though saying this ,the money they are given is spent here and pays the duty whenever they purchase anything from a shop or company

No Boyfriday......but a divine tax refund would be nice..............and come on...... fornicators is such a nice word .....dont you think!