r.i.p my babys charlie lola and george my 2 baby bunnys and my lil boy guinea pig george i willa lways love you, i cant imagien the pain you have just died in i am sosososososos sorry, a dog has just killed them all and its killing me im never going to see them again, i hate the thought of knowing they died in pain but they did and i cant get it out of my head im sat in a daze, i have 1 surviver guinea pig harry, he saw his brother die and he is terrified bless him i dont know what to do for him he wont let me pic him up and bit me hes petrified and i cant stop shaking, please send my babys all the love you have and i hope there up in the sky playign with all the other little furrys and have lots of friends i will always love you all and you will always be in my heart

So sorry to read this. It's a terrible thing to happen. I hope Harry is OK when he calms down a bit.

I couldn't believe it when I got your phonecall earlier to tell me that the babies that came from me had died. They were all well loved and will be missed. Poor little Harry will definatley be traumatised, he was always the more nervous of the two :(. My thoughts are with you and them. RIP little ones :(

Oh poor you Mummysaz. What a terrible thing to happen to you love. My heart goes out to you. Poor Harry is obviously traumatised, once he calms down he will probably be ok with you again. For the ones you have lost RIP. xxxxxx

i cant stop crying, i am sosososo sorry helen i realy am i know they all came from you and you loved them to i am sososos sorry feel liek ive just had my heart ripped out

I am so very sorry to hear about this, what a terrible thing to happen...so sorry I don't know what else to say :sad:

Really sorry to hear about your furry babies. RIP little fluffs .

I too am sorry about your furries. :sad:

Does this dog not have an owner...what was their reaction?

What an awful thing to have to deal with. Hugs for you and the remaining g-pigx

Saz I'm so sorry hun - I just wish there was something I could do... I really do. I hope Harry comes around soon ... I really dont' know what to suggest :( :(

That is dreadful, and you have not had them long :(

My friend lost their rabbits to what they think was a fox during the day but I reckon it was a dog as it left all the bodies.

Hope you get your rabbit sorted and the piggy settles.

What a shocking thing to happen, poor you and poor Harry
were they in a cage, do you know the owner of this dog, I would certainly be having words, a dog like that shouldn't be out roaming.

Still thinking about you hun, sending a big consoling hug over the airwaves.

Sorry to hear that and give harry a bit of time to calm down.

thank you everybody today has been very very hard but milly is now inside the house and harry seams to be settling he has eaten at least and so has milly so thats a good thing, and no they where outside in there new rabbit run but milly was in a cage which is why she wasent involvedx

who's dog was it? you could get the police involved for damage of property.

god thats awful poor you, don`t you know who owns the dog?

yes i know who owns the dog and it has been reported this has happendxx

Im so sorry to hear whats happened!! hope ur doin ok and harry to. xx

If harry is eating then he will be fine given time.

some people aren`t fit to keep dogs, that could have been your child it was mauling.

i hope so sezbetz but what i am worrying sbout is him being on his own he adored his brother and screemed everytime i picke george up for a cuddle lol, poor lil man he does look sad bless him

some people aren`t fit to keep dogs, that could have been your child it was mauling.

ohi know mollie, sumt will be done even if i have to move ive had enough

I am so so sorry Saz, there were gorgeous little guys and well done for giving em a great start to life.
I don't think I can take Millie at the moment as between abscesses and feisty females still having a bit of trouble integrating the little lionhead but if there is anything at all I can do at all just let me know.
Good luck with everything
xxx

hi bogwoppit,werent they just stunning?god i miss them so much already, milly isent goign anywhere now love, shes is back indoors and stayign indoor shes been great tonight since my son has gone to bed shes been havign her cage door open and she just comes out when she wants, but im having to padlock it when hes up becouse hes being cheeky and just letting her out lol

that's great to hear hun - she's lucky to have you.
It's not a solution but if you can find any dried cammomile (maybe from a health food shop like Wicker herbal in town near the crucible) you can sprinkle a bit in her food and it helps sooth the nerves and calm them down. Maybe good for the guinea pig too.
xxx

:( This is awful mummysaz. To lose 1 this would be traumatic in itself but to lose a few is heartbreaking. Poor babies. Im so sorry.xx

With regard to harry - you could give him time to recover then try bonding him with another pig, he will need the company but let him get over this first.

I would be very upset if a neighbours dog did this to mine and would make them make sure the dog couldn't get out of its garden again to do this.
I am so sorry to hear this.

Absolutely awful, what if it had been a baby!

some people aren`t fit to keep dogs, that could have been your child it was mauling.

Er... let's not let this get into this. My own dog has killed (and eaten) a rabbit (wild, not pets) but wouldn't ever maul a human.

It is very natural for a dog to kill a rabbit, it was acting on instinct - it was the owner's fault that they had not provided adequate provisions to contain their dog.

Nobody knows the temperament of the dog where larger animals, adults or children are concerned so that's not really a fair comment.

You say you have Harry and a bunny....is there anyway you could put the two together..I know that the species can live quite harmonious together.

Give time to introduce them and see what happens. They may find they can cuddle up together.

In the meantime and I know this sounds crazy but is there anyway you can put Harry in a cage and have him near you.....especially at bedtime.

Many a night I slept with my pet rats and when they were ill I had a special "hospital" cage that would be on the bed next to me.

I have a cage that might be suitable as a "guinea pig" hospital....if you want to PM me. :)

Poor babies, and all to die so very young aswell :(, why on earth doesn't he/she have his dogs in a secure area? I should hope they were more than appologetic, not only has the dog killed 3 critters, but it has devestated yourself and your son, as well as helenasq I would presume :(.

You say you have Harry and a bunny....is there anyway you could put the two together..I know that the species can live quite harmonious together.



Rabbits and guineapigs shouldn't be kept together julado - the kick from the rabbit can kill the guineapig and they both have very different dietery requirements. Some people do risk keeping them together, but it's not a risk I have ever been prepared to take. Also the other bunny that mummysaz has is a rescue who is not used to company, and so mummysaz has been trying to bond it, although she is a bit too rough by the sounds of it at the moment on the other thread.

Thinking of you at this sad time and may the little ones RIP

So sad to here about your furries hope the other settle down if you can get some bachs rescue remedy from a chemist put two drops in there water it will help calm them down rip little ones

Sheesh .. I am so sorry to hear this. I can't imagine what I would be like if this had happened to my two buns. x

Im so sorry to hear about this hun, im fuming that a dog was allowed to run free. Not thedogs fault but the owner should get a kick up the arse.

RIP cuties and my sincere sympathys to you and yourson.

I saw this and I thought someone's children had died. :(

I saw this and I thought someone's children had died. :(

Well it is in the pet section. That should have given you a bit of a clue. They may have only been animals to some people but they were part of the op's family(and mine) and were really loved as pets should be.I can't imagine what it was like to come out and find the babies dead, knowing they'd suffered because of an irresponsible owner who couldn't keep their dogs enclosed in their own garden. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but I know what the op is going through and it should never have happened :(

What a horrible thing to happen.

Plenty of hay, cabbage and treats for Mr Harry I think are in order.

My thought are with you! A few years ago my neighbours dog jumped over the fence to attack my cat, thankfully she ran into the house (followed by the dog) where my OH was to save poor little Ruby. She was shook up for days and is still reluctant to go out now 2 and a half years later.

I agree wit haddockman, plenty of cuddles and treats for Harry and i'm sure he'l be back to normal soon.

Sorry to here that i had same problem some years back as it happend i did know the owner but at that time the police was doing a search on his house and the dog escaped and killed 2 of my rabbits and a lot more on the estate seeing as it wasnt the owners fault south yorkshire police had to pay up.Should recover pritty quick all mine was fine after a few days.Luckly it was next door that alerted me armed with a knife and a pan lol.
Hope Harry gets on ok.

Please don't replace them until the neighbours dog is secure or until you have a safe garden , I know that sounds harsh but once its happend once you do everything to make sure it never happens again.
Maybe Harry gp should return to Helens.

teeny - they're not going back in the garden... she's already said they've come into the house and aren't going out again - why would she think it was ok to put them out again??

teeny i am getting another guinea pig i cant not harry is on his own, but i will nto be gettign anymore rabbits becouse milly who is here and doign fine is now a house bunny and will neevr be going back otu, im not that stupid, the whole poitn with the gate is the fact that i keep mending it but the dogs keep breaking it and not mine i might add, ive had enough of it and i am not going to loose any more babys from irresponsible ownersx

excuse me?harry go back to helens?are you kidding me?hes my guinea pig and hes my baby i love him to death why on eart would i return him?

also to the person who suggest bondign the pig and bunny?theres no chance the bunny milly is not good with other furys she has to be sperated as shes been on her own 2 years and i wouldent trust her not to kick him shed kill him in an instant, mr harry is loving cuddles and his veg hes gettign happier and i hope he continuesxx

Teeny I don't think she would be stupid enough to put them out again. As lotti says why would she after what has just happened. I think a lesson has been learnt here and Harry is a house guinea pig and will NOT be going outside again and neither will Milly the rescue bunny who now lives inside. They can have regular exercise in the house. She now has an indoor run and is daily picking grass and dandlion leaves for them.
Why do you think Harry return to Helens??? Im a bit baffled by that comment as Mummysaz I know for a fact loves her animals dearly and has had harry for several months and is very attached. He just needs a friend(s) to bond with and can carry on living a hapy life with Mummysaz. Taking him back to Helens will cause him more stress due to unfamiliar surroundings etc and i think hes been through enough. plus i know mummysaz would never part with her animals as as i have said she loves them all to bits and care about them so much

so sorry thats just so sad......

Teeny I don't think she would be stupid enough to put them out again. As lotti says why would she after what has just happened. I think a lesson has been learnt here and Harry is a house guinea pig and will NOT be going outside again and neither will Milly the rescue bunny who now lives inside. They can have regular exercise in the house. She now has an indoor run and is daily picking grass and dandlion leaves for them.
Why do you think Harry return to Helens??? Im a bit baffled by that comment as Mummysaz I know for a fact loves her animals dearly and has had harry for several months and is very attached. He just needs a friend(s) to bond with and can carry on living a hapy life with Mummysaz. Taking him back to Helens will cause him more stress due to unfamiliar surroundings etc and i think hes been through enough. plus i know mummysaz would never part with her animals as as i have said she loves them all to bits and care about them so much

yes and milly has the run of the house at night and she absalutly loves it lol, shes so cute, and brandon love harry he would be upset if i sent him away, eevrybodys happy now anyway where slowley getting there and all the animals are perkingup, except my dogs bless em i havent let them on back since this happend, and i have a very very big garden so there now banned to tiny small garden, poor lil woofersxx

I'm really sorry to hear this, RIP little ones :(

Oh my God, that is my worst nightmare! I hope you, millie and harry are ok.

Big hugs from all my hairy gang x

whilst I appreiciate this is an aweful thing to have happend the reasons I felt Harry should return to Helens was because he is familliar with life there and to be honest I think it would be better for him to feel he is in safe surroundings ,also Helens Daughter who has reared these babies from birth is very upset and worried about his safty etc I know mummysaz loves him , but he is now alone , he hasn't been in that enviroment very long and would probably find it comforting to return somewhere familiar, thats all I was trying to say. I had a bonded pair of rescues here that went to a new home an a week later their home was set alight , they were both very unsettled , they returned here and settled back in straight away with the group they had been living with and stayed here perminantly until they went to rainbow bridge.

teeny do you even know harry and george ?i have had them months they wouldent even remember that enviroment, why on earth would they be concerned for his safety?they havent said anyting to me and im sure they wouldent liek you putting words in ther emouth if they have any concerns they shoudlt alk to me but queit frankly harry is nothign to do with helen anymore, i love her dearly for letting me adopt him but he hasent been there for month and months

and yiou say rachel is more devestated about it, how can she be more devestated about my babys than me?

charlie n lola i can understan i only got them last week but not george my piggy

and yiou say rachel is more devestated about it, how can she be more devestated about my babys than me?

charlie n lola i can understan i only got them last week but not george my piggy

Well I would be if that hapened to any I rehomed to , I am not saying any of this to be hurtful , all I have in mind is the welfare of the animals.

yea i can understand shes upset but you have sent me pms sayign that its sad i wont give rachel harry back, why is it please explain how they are in danger?i have already said none of my babys are going outside so ther enot in danger?

teeny do you even know harry and george?

Yes she does, she came to visit them many times when they were babies.

i have had them months they wouldent even remember that enviroment, why on earth would they be concerned for his safety?

Probably because the 2 rabbits that you have only had for a week have ended up being killed, as well as one of the piggies. You promised when you first took Harry and George on that they would NEVER be allowed out unsupervised because of the dogs next door, you KNEW that they had killed cats in the neighbourhood and have even said that you never let your own dogs out on the back because of your neighbour's dogs, so why the heck did you leave defenceless animals out there unsupervised?

they havent said anyting to me and im sure they wouldent liek you putting words in ther emouth if they have any concerns they shoudlt alk to me

Tina isn't putting words in our mouths, she's saying exactly what I'm thinking - we ARE concerned for his safety. For starters you risked injuring tiny baby bunnies and guineapigs when you put a rescue rabbit in the run that you knew nothing about, who could have quite easily killed them all. Then you broke your promise about them not being allowed out, surely being aware of the dangers of next doors dogs it would have been best to let them out as housepets or in their run supervised, rather than risk and ultimatley end three of the 4 lives.


but queit frankly harry is nothign to do with helen anymore, i love her dearly for letting me adopt him but he hasent been there for month and months


Nothing to do with Helen anymore - well that's nice isn't it. For starters he's one of our pigs, that we let you have. She has come to visit him and asked for updates on how he's doing. All our animals are very special to us, but they were our first ever baby pigs making them even more so. They were in our lives for a whole 6 weeks, I hand fed george for a while as there wasn't enough milk for the two of them. I dedicated my time and fed him through the night for the first 2 weeks - now can you understand why they were so special to us?

and yiou say rachel is more devestated about it, how can she be more devestated about my babys than me?

charlie n lola i can understan i only got them last week but not george my piggy
Charlie was ever so special to me, I was going to keep him if you didn't have him as he was my little baby. I have handled those bunnies since they were 5 days old, right up until them going at 9 weeks. To say how can I be more devestated than you, well that's just ridiculous. You'd not even had them 8 days, they were in my life for over 8 weeks. Lola was also special, but she looked just like her 4 sisters, so I didn't get quite so attached. When I heard the news I cried and cried, those babies were so special to me.

You didn't even have the decency to ask my mum if she wanted her hutch back that she had GIVEN you. You only replied 'ok' when I replied to your text asking my mum to ring you saying that she couldn't as she had come down with a horrible virus, made worse by the news of the poor babies. You have let us down, as well as those poor animals.

Let's look at this seriously, of course Helen and Rachel are devastated, as is Sarah.

EVERYONE has near scrapes and EVERYONE makes mistakes. It is no reflection on Sarah that this one ended in tragedy and others haven't. Takara has run across a road before, didn't get hit, easily could've - she didn't have to go back to her breeder though.

In response to the near miss, I got smarter and more careful. Sadly, Sarah's wasn't a near miss but she's hardly likely to do it again.

Harry is probably safer now than ever before - not saying it's right that the lesson had to be learned through the deaths of the others but it's happened and it's not going to happen again.

Of course they will always be special to Rachel and Helen, but it's a tragic accident, okay, through some degree of carelessness but we all have those moments - just most of us get away with them.

how the bloody hell have i let you down?when i got the baby rabbits charlie and lola you knew the piggies where already going on the garden so if your where that worried why the hell adopt them out?harry is not your now nor will he ever be, i hate 2 faced people who only come round your house to carry on gossip, your are them people, i did offer the cage back to helen on the thread it sayd 2 cages for free, but if the perosn who gave it me wants it back then please contact me, grow up rachel and leave me and harry alone hes nothign to you anymore i know u loved the baby bunnys i did only have them 8 days so i can understand why it hurt you so bad i have never said it wouldent, but dont go round to other forum members slagging me off and then them putting it on the forum, like i say you knew harry and geoprge was going outside so dont be so irresponsible as to adopt animals out that(ur concerned about) i know i wouldent, and milly was ok with the babys just a bit nippy so i took her out, so dont even go there

im sorry what happend to charlie and lola rachel and i know it hurt you but dont ever tell anybody i dident care about them and that you should have harry back, harry is going nowhere

Look it is Saz's decision about what to do with her animals, they are her animals no1 elses. They are now house pets, she is not a irresponsible pet owner, that was the stupid idiot who let their dog get through to her private property. If she says that her piggy is happy in the house then I believe her and I know she would die for those animals, she loves them as much as she loves her son, and she would never have let that dog harm them if she could have helped it. But accidents happen and this is what this was, a tragic accident. But to even suggest her getting rid of them is very harsh. They are now staying in the house and not going out again, so why do people have to keep going on at her, she is upset enough as it is. I am sure her little piggy would love a new friend to bond and get along with. If this is what Saz wants to do, then she must feel it is the right thing to do. As she loves her animals with all her heart.

how the bloody hell have i let you down?when i got the baby rabbits charlie and lola you knew the piggies where already going on the garden so if your where that worried why the hell adopt them out?harry is not your now nor will he ever me, i hate 2 faced people who only come round your house to carry on gossip, your are them people, i did offer the cage back to helen on the thread it sayd 2 cages for free, but if the perosn who gave it me wants it back then please contact me, grow up rachel and leave me and harry alone hes nothign to you anymore i know u loved the baby bunnys i did only have them 8 days so i can understand why it hurt you so bad i have never said it wouldent, but dont go round to other forum members slagging me off and then them putting it on the forum, like i say you knew harry and geoprge was going outside so dont be so irresponsible as to adopt animals out that(ur concerned about) i know i wouldent, and milyl was ok with the babys just a bit nippy so i took her out, so dont even go there
Yeah, we knew the pigs were going out although you said it was only ever when you were out there with them, so why on earth did you not know that they'd been killed until your neighbour came banging on your door? Why then was it irresponsible of us to adopt them out we were told they were only ever out under supervision and we believed you as it's obvious how much you love your animals?

I know he's not ours now and that he won't ever be - have we even asked for him back?

First I know of any slagging off about you, you can pm me if you like with any details of that because as far as I'm aware, I certainatley haven't.

Milly could have certaintley hurt them - the size difference alone and the fact that she could have killed the pigs with just one kick.

I don't 'do' gossip - I am just annoyed and upset that you put those animals in a dangerous position which has ultimatley meant the end of their lives.

I wasn't meaning it to come out in a nasty way, and if it did, I appologise.

teeny do you even know harry and george?

Yes she does, she came to visit them many times when they were babies.

i have had them months they wouldent even remember that enviroment, why on earth would they be concerned for his safety?

Probably because the 2 rabbits that you have only had for a week have ended up being killed, as well as one of the piggies. You promised when you first took Harry and George on that they would NEVER be allowed out unsupervised because of the dogs next door, you KNEW that they had killed cats in the neighbourhood and have even said that you never let your own dogs out on the back because of your neighbour's dogs, so why the heck did you leave defenceless animals out there unsupervised?

they havent said anyting to me and im sure they wouldent liek you putting words in ther emouth if they have any concerns they shoudlt alk to me

Tina isn't putting words in our mouths, she's saying exactly what I'm thinking - we ARE concerned for his safety. For starters you risked injuring tiny baby bunnies and guineapigs when you put a rescue rabbit in the run that you knew nothing about, who could have quite easily killed them all. Then you broke your promise about them not being allowed out, surely being aware of the dangers of next doors dogs it would have been best to let them out as housepets or in their run supervised, rather than risk and ultimatley end three of the 4 lives.


but queit frankly harry is nothign to do with helen anymore, i love her dearly for letting me adopt him but he hasent been there for month and months


Nothing to do with Helen anymore - well that's nice isn't it. For starters he's one of our pigs, that we let you have. She has come to visit him and asked for updates on how he's doing. All our animals are very special to us, but they were our first ever baby pigs making them even more so. They were in our lives for a whole 6 weeks, I hand fed george for a while as there wasn't enough milk for the two of them. I dedicated my time and fed him through the night for the first 2 weeks - now can you understand why they were so special to us?

and yiou say rachel is more devestated about it, how can she be more devestated about my babys than me?

charlie n lola i can understan i only got them last week but not george my piggy
Charlie was ever so special to me, I was going to keep him if you didn't have him as he was my little baby. I have handled those bunnies since they were 5 days old, right up until them going at 9 weeks. To say how can I be more devestated than you, well that's just ridiculous. You'd not even had them 8 days, they were in my life for over 8 weeks. Lola was also special, but she looked just like her 4 sisters, so I didn't get quite so attached. When I heard the news I cried and cried, those babies were so special to me.

You didn't even have the decency to ask my mum if she wanted her hutch back that she had GIVEN you. You only replied 'ok' when I replied to your text asking my mum to ring you saying that she couldn't as she had come down with a horrible virus, made worse by the news of the poor babies. You have let us down, as well as those poor animals.

i think you need to take a reality check love my dogs have been going out from me living here when the dogs all got on so where did you get that from that they dont go out?i never said they dident,and he isent one of your pigs love, while i apreciate you did a lot for harry and george and cared for them for the first 6 weeks, at the end of the day you adopted them out and they are now mine i dont have to give them back and i wont sorry but hes mine and i love him to bits its not goping to happenm, please stop arguing now i have enough to deal with

Yeah, we knew the pigs were going out although you said it was only ever when you were out there with them, so why on earth did you not know that they'd been killed until your neighbour came banging on your door? Why then was it irresponsible of us to adopt them out we were told they were only ever out under supervision and we believed you as it's obvious how much you love your animals?

I know he's not ours now and that he won't ever be - have we even asked for him back?

First I know of any slagging off about you, you can pm me if you like with any details of that because as far as I'm aware, I certainatley haven't.

Milly could have certaintley hurt them - the size difference alone and the fact that she could have killed the pigs with just one kick.

I don't 'do' gossip - I am just annoyed and upset that you put those animals in a dangerous position which has ultimatley meant the end of their lives.

I wasn't meaning it to come out in a nasty way, and if it did, I appologise.

and rachel who said it wasent supervised?but i do have to go in the house and cook food,get drinks, see to the house and my lil boy i cant spend 247 in the gardenb as can nobody else, you have asked for him back i can email the message to you what teeny has sayign saying rachel wants hi back as shes concerned for his safety
yes milly could have hurt them which is why i took her out of the run?which is why she wasent killed becouse i had took her out:loopy:

i dident put them in a dangerous position, the owners of the dogs did and should be ashamed

and rachel who said it wasent supervised?but i do have to go in the house and cook food,get drinks, see to the house and my lil boy i cant spend 247 in the gardenb as can nobody else, you have asked for him back i can email the message to you what teeny has sayign saying rachel wants hi back as shes concerned for his safety
yes milly could have hurt them which is why i took her out of the run?which is why she wasent killed becouse i had took her out:loopy:

i dident put them in a dangerous position, the owners of the dogs did and should be ashamed

I personally have never asked for him back, of course you're going to be attached to him by now, as anybody would be. I have never expected you to send him back. I am concerned for his safety but not once have I said that I wanted him back as I know that you won't take anymore risks, they mean too much to you.

I put that as thats what Rachel wants , him back so no more harm can come to him , Its up setting for you but for Rachel its been aweful as she loved the bunnies and the guinea pigs too.
Thats all it was put for.
Tina

thats the email from teeny talk to her, im only going on what was said to me, i know you love harry and so do i which is why they are never going back out

Why don't you just leave off Saz she has enough on her plate, and then to come on a public forum and get slated because of an accident that was the neighbours fault, they obviously were not taking very good care of their vicious animal, if it could get onto another garden and violently attack and kill 3 defenceless animals. So if anyone wants to slate people then slate the stupid irresponsible dog owners. Not Saz!

What happened was out her control she obviously loves her animals dearly i dont think anyone has the right to slate her things happen that are out of our control even if she had been there doesnt mean it wouldnt of happened the only people to blame are the others of the dog!

Everyone is just upset, and things that would normally said come across as fine get all blown out of proportion when your upset :( I react to things totally differently if I'm stressed or upset.

I guess you and everyone just needs to put this thread to bed.

yes please close thread im not goign to argue, if im honest even if i was outside bang on time i couldent have stopped the dog he is far to strong and to big for me which is why i dont own one of them dogs, i just hope something gets dont its been reported to everybody who can bex

Mummysaz is a a great and wonderful and responsible pet owner and loves her animals dearly.

Everyone is just upset, and things that would normally said come across as fine get all blown out of proportion when your upset :( I react to things totally differently if I'm stressed or upset.

I guess you and everyone just needs to put this thread to bed.

Exactly so Evei, this is very sad and unfortunate and feelings are running high.

I am personally really very sorry for all concerned because I know how much it hurts, but mainly for the animals bless them all.

Please try to keep things calm and not hit out in anger it isn't the answer here.

It is clear from what has been said that Harry is to remain with mummysaz21, and also clear that a huge lesson has been learned, I don't think that this experience will ever be repeated.